EV Digest 4649
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Motor temperature
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Battery boxes/heaters - range of 144V conversion
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) A word of advice
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Blended packs (was Re: Thundersky Batteries)
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Kelvin connection
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: A word of advice
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Signage
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Best Flooded Battery
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 6V Myth, was: Best Flooded Battery
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Battery boxes/heaters - range of 144V conversion
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Google Alert - "electric car"
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Motor temperature
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Warp9 Vs Warp Impulse 9 vs ADC
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Steves Mower, was, 2000 mile range EV?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Kelvin connection
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) 144V Battery pack
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 144V Battery pack
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 144V Battery pack
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Warp9 Vs Warp Impulse 9 vs ADC
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Steves Mower, was, 2000 mile range EV?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Steves Mower, was, 2000 mile range EV?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Warp9 Vs Warp Impulse 9 vs ADC
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Steves Mower, was, 2000 mile range EV?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Warp9 Vs Warp Impulse 9 vs ADC
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) EVLN(Mitsubishi's plan to be an EV producing world leader)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) EVLN(Prius? Such a gas guzzler)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
How do I hook up the red/black leads from the 9" ADC motor? What temp gauge do
I use, etc?
It is not a gauge, just a disc switch that closes at a high temp. Wire
one side to ground and the other to the "temp" light on the dash.
(Usually.. check the wiring diagrams)
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With my 144 pack of 18 T890's I travel 43 miles each way to work. With
the 890's I arrive at work with 35-40% charge remaining, so a range to
of around 57 miles to 80% discharge or 71 miles to dead. My route is
fairly flat with stop and go~45 mph for the first 12 miles then highway
55-65 the rest of the way (and 50mph up that final last hill into
Boulder). Occasionally I travel highway 93, (lots of hills, lights at
bottom of hills, and fast traffic) which is a 38.8 mile route. It uses
75-80% of my charge.
Lynn
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Bohm
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 8:57 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Battery boxes/heaters - range of 144V conversion
Hi CWarman and Everyone,
CWarman wrote:
>
> I know that my range will decrease by up to 30% in the winter ? Im
> hoping that with my 144vlt setup..Warp9, Zilla1k that ill be able to
> get 40miles (good possibility?) in the summer and 25-30miles in the
> winter ? I have a 8 mile commute each way right now....
>
> If keeping the batterys warm is a concern i really need to address
> it..
>
> Cwarman
I'm dubious of a 144V setup getting 40 miles. Is anyone with a 144V
pack getting that much? I have a 144V pack of Orbitals in a fairly
aerodynamic vehicle. My range without hurting the batteries on a nice,
warm day is about 16 miles. So let's say your using flooded (or
something else with better capacity) and you get double what the Orbs
get. Then you'd be looking at around 30 miles.
I'm just really curious what others have seen on a regular basis. It's
certainly wise to go into your conversion with a good idea of your
actual range. I'd suggest in the first few months of driving your
conversion you stay about 25-35% under your estimated range. That will
*help* avoid battricide. I noticed in my first weeks of driving my
conversion, I messed up the charging a few times and left not full. I
think the batteries take some breaking-in to get up to full capacity as
well (someone verify me on that one). So taking it easy the first
little while will keep you in the safe zone.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For all of those folks who like to post one line messages plus a URL like:
"Hey check out this link"
or
"What do you think of this"
etc.
If it's not worth you time to bother adding at least a basic description
of what it is we are supposed to find there, then it isn't worth my time
to look at it.
I delete these messages without looking at the URL and I suspect many (if
not most) of the others do as well.
So if you like posting messages that get ignored, keep it up. Otherwise,
spend a few seconds and tell us WHY we should look at your URL and what
we'lll find there.
Just my thoughts.
Cheers, Pete.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee, this was a great post. Thank you. I've been looking fwd to
ditching lead. A blended approach to take advantage of the positive
aspects of different EV battery/drive chemistrys/techs seems
worthwhile. I am interested in acceleration and hill climbing. My
2-wheel EV including driver weights only 200 lbs and the hub motor
averages 746 watts (on the flats w/no winds.) I suppose I should be
driving caps (super/ultra/galactic/whatever) for "pickup" and lithium
or nickel for distance, and for "feeding" the caps... D'ya think
there's a way today for me to use the word "simplified" in the same
paragraph? I wish to pop a capacitive "clutch".
tks
LOck
Toronto
ps... AFAIK, a compound bow as energy storage might be cheaper than the
caps for my "pops"?
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Doug Hartley wrote:
> > For a simplified 48V system, I would recommend 4 Interstate DCS-75
> > batteries (more Amp-Hrs, lower cost, about the same size as
> Optimas)
> > in parallel with a string of 14 of the 100 Amp-Hr. TS cells.
> Connect
> > the strings in parallel, with a contactor to disconnect the TS
> > string when not charging or driving. Charge from one charger set up
> > for 48V of AGM batteries. It works well enough with nothing fancier
> > than that. I recommend the use of suitable regulators for both
> > battery types. This is basically half of what I am doing now with
> > a 96V system of 8 Interstate DCS-75 batteries and 28 of the 100
> > Amp-Hr. TS cells, so this would be for a small, light EV only.
>
> Doug, are you actually driving with this setup? Or just planning to?
> My
> gut reaction is that this is a little too simple to work well.
>
> You don't have any means to control which set of batteries gets the
> current during charging or driving. The two types of batteries have
> significantly different characteristics, so it will divide
> unpredictably.
>
> As a minimum, I would add some kind of controllable resistor in
> series
> with one of the packs; for instance a big MOSFET with a circuit to
> adjust its resistance from 0.001 to 0.1 ohms. Use it in series with
> the
> TS batteries to limit their current. Or, the MOSFET can be turned off
> completely as needed (for instance, so the TS won't discharge into
> the
> lead-acids when they are above 57v, their gassing threshold).
>
> A resistor lowers efficiency a bit; but since the current and voltage
> across this resistor are never all that high, you're only wasting a
> few
> percent at most. For better efficiency, you can use a PWM controller;
> a
> golf cart controller would be one option.
>
> Lead-acids are better at supplying high peak currents. So it is
> better
> to limit the TS to supply your average load current (with the
> resistance, and let the lead-acids supply the peaks. A lead-acid with
> very low internal resistance is preferable; Optimas or Orbitals or
> Hawkers instead of the Interstates. The Interstate DCS-75 has twice
> the
> internal resistance of the for example, Optima, is heavier, and has
> less
> amphours at the C1 rate we normally use to compare batteries for EV
> use.
>
> I would be more inclined to use the 200ah TS cells, with a smaller
> set
> of Hawker AGMs. The TS give you the range, and the Hawkers the peak
> power for fast accelleration.
> --
> Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
> injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
> are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas
> Szasz
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jake Oshins wrote:
> After reading Rich's documentation, I had to google pretty hard to
> figure out what a "Kelvin" connection was. It breaks down like this:
>
> A Rudman Regulator, by default, use two wires, connected (one each) to
> the poles of the battery. It does two things through these wires.
> First, it measures voltage. Second, it passes current that is bypassing
> the battery. The problem comes when the wires get long. At that point,
> the resistence in the wires affects the voltage measurement, but only
> when the current in the wires is non-zero. So your batts can get out of
> balance because they are effectively equalizing to different voltages.
>
> The solution is a "Kelvin" measurement setup, where you use separate
> wires for measurement and current bypass. The second set of wires
> carries no current and thus sees no voltage drop due to resistance. So
> you get an accurate voltage at the regulator.
>
> The problem is that Rich no longer populates the "SENSE" pads on the
> regs with pins. So you have to do some fancy soldering to hook up the
> extra set of wires. This was enough of an impediment to me that I
> decided to just keep the lengths of the wire to my regs relatively
> constant and relatively short, hoping that that would mean that my regs
> would be uniformly wrong in their voltage measurent and, thus,
> relatively in balance.
>
> - Jake Oshins
>
.I spent a lot of PCB board area and fastons for this feature... and I don't
know of anybody but Joe and I who have used it. I kept the feature....but
made it rather hard to implement. If you are a hacker....it's there... and
you can use a 2 pin molex connector if you wish. If anyone HAS to have
it.... ask for a custom run of Regs.
We do 2 or 3 25 pieces runs a month... so just ask and I will populate that
header.
Hint this is pretty petty analog design work.... Keep your Regs as close to
your battery, and if you are using the external bypass feature... use big
wire.
Kelvin sensing makes tons of sense in the bright white Lab setting... under
the hood of a Ev with high voltage and current going every where...it's not
going to be easy to get it right. Also the current model of Regs only
conducts about 3 amps... so there are not really big current surges even on
the main power pins.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ahh, went to bed after posting that link.
http://toccionline.kizash.com/films/1001/178/index.php
It's a flash music video about the cost of gas and a guy that's out of gas
and his friend that buys a hummer instead of a hybrid.
Very funny stuff.
Sorry about not posting description earlier, was half asleep.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: " Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 2:15 AM
Subject: A word of advice
For all of those folks who like to post one line messages plus a URL like:
"Hey check out this link"
or
"What do you think of this"
etc.
If it's not worth you time to bother adding at least a basic description
of what it is we are supposed to find there, then it isn't worth my time
to look at it.
I delete these messages without looking at the URL and I suspect many (if
not most) of the others do as well.
So if you like posting messages that get ignored, keep it up. Otherwise,
spend a few seconds and tell us WHY we should look at your URL and what
we'lll find there.
Just my thoughts.
Cheers, Pete.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That would have been an honor, but I picked "Dymaxion" as an alias
because I was so impressed by the Dymaxion automobile (and impressed
by Fuller in general).
--- Tony Godshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> David:
>
> Hey, I like your name. Did B. Fuller make you?
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
Im looking for distance more than i am speed. Altho, im really hoping i can
chug along at at least 55mph..
Cwarman
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: Best Flooded Battery
> why 12v , I have seen so many ev's not make it because of some 12v
trolling
> motor battery or 12 deep cycle , the battery boxes set up for them and
then
> the right batteries won't fit. are you looking for speed , or distance
> steve clunn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cwarman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 3:50 PM
> Subject: Best Flooded Battery
>
>
> > Im trying to find the best performance/best price flooded 12vlt battery
> > out there...
> >
> > Any suggestions where i can start looking and price..
> >
> > I wanna start to design the battery boxes this weekend, but trying to
get
> > my battery choice lined up so i can get some dimensions..
> >
> >
> > Cwarman
> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Meta Bus wrote:
> Are two 6V batteries-in-series somehow better than a 12V sibling?
> I've seen people assert this before, and I do not understand.
No myths or magic. The two 6v "win" simply because they weigh more, and
thus have more energy storage, cost less, and last longer.
The key is that 6v golf cart batteries are produced by the millions, so
they are cheap. And they are specifically designed for electric vehicle
use, so their performance is optimized for long life at loads of around
75 amps. You get quantity discounts and pay $50 or so each, since even a
golf cart needs six.
Almost all 12v batteries are designed for some other purpose; ICE engine
starting, marine/trolling, UPS backup systems, etc. The few that really
are designed for EV use are produced in low quantities, and so
relatively expensive for what you get. They are marketed and sold one at
a time, for $100 or so retail. And, the flooded ones are designed for
lower currents over longer discharge times; typically load of around 25
amps which is far lower than normal EV currents.
The result is that if you use 12v floodeds, they will be overloaded and
run down sooner (less range), and will wear out sooner (excessive load
current). So your battery cost per mile is higher.
Now, you may have special circumstances that dictate 12v batteries in
spite of this. Maybe you don't have the room for the 6v floodeds; 12v
batteries come in a large range of smaller sizes. Maybe you need/want a
higher pack voltage, and couldn't carry enough 6v to reach it. Maybe low
initial cost is vital, and you don't care how long they last (you only
need half as many 12v for a given pack voltage). Or maybe cost is no
object, and you can afford AGMs or other high-tech batteries that avoid
the tradeoffs of flooded lead-acid batteries.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. wrote:
> 2 golf cart batteries are worth about 3 Optimas for range
> (and 1/2 an Optima for fun :-)
That's a great 1-sentence summary, Paul!
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cwarman wrote in reference to using water bed heaters to warm batteries:
WOW, that actually sounds like a great idea........
Yes those waterbed heaters are VERY thin and work great...
Any others have thoughts on why this might not work ?
Water bed heaters do work. See:
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/5565/heat.html
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's time to get all those cars plugged in
Globe and Mail - Canada
... And projections based on real-world experience from utility
electric-car fleets show that PHEVs can have a lower lifetime cost of
ownership than any other type ...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wouldn't do it that way. Completely killing the motive power could
leave one in a dangerous situation. I'd connect the NC contact in
series with a throttle pot lead and connect a suitable resistor across
the contacts. Select the resistor to lower power to say, 20 or 30%,
enough to creep off to the side of the road but enough to protect the
motor. When the thermal switch opens, the resistance is placed in
series with the pot.
Or if you have the pot configured to go to 5k ohms at WOT, hook NO
contacts through a suitable resistor to shunt the pot.
Consider this the equivalent of the "limp home" mode for conventional
car PCMs.
John
On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 07:13:48 -0600, "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>The sender or sensor is just a thermo overload that is design to trip at about
>120 degrees C. Used one of the ignition on circuits from your fuse panel.
>Fuse it for about 1 amp going to one of the sensor leads coming from the motor
>
>Run the other lead to a 12 VDC LED that you mount on the Dash. If the thermo
>sensor closes indicating a temperature at or above 120 C, then the LED will
>come on.
>
>My thermo senser on my warp motor is normally close. Used a ohm meter or a
>simple light indicator to check if your sender is normally close while the
>motor is cold or open while the motor is cold.
>
>If it normally close, it will light up the Dash LED all the time. It will
>turn off the LED when the motor gets too hot.
>
>The reason they used a normally closed thermo sensor, so you could connect it
>in series with the motor controller 12 VDC power. Now when the motor
>temperature gets too high, it will shut down your controller.
>
>For safety reasons, if you do this, you should install a by pass switch, so
>you can still drive the vehicle off the road.
>
>I plan to connect this thermo output circuit to a small plug in glass 12 VDC
>relay coil. The relay contacts which has both normally open NO and normally
>close NC contacts, will have the same 12 VDC power going to the relay coil,
>jumper to one of the NC contacts in the relay and than out to a LED on the
>dash or to a Display Indicator Panel.
>
>This will now light up the Indicator when the motor gets too hot. If you also
>connect it up to a sound indicator, used a shut off switch for the sound
>indicator.
>
>Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rush<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Motor temperature
>
>
> How do I hook up the red/black leads from the 9" ADC motor? What temp gauge
> do I use, etc?
>
> Thanks
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org<http://www.ironandwood.org/>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well,
Had my heart set on buying the Warp9 with everyones recommendation as
its the best of the two but before I did I was told that it was a direct
replacement for the ADC9 and that if i bought the Motor mount and tranny
kit the warp 9 would bolt right in. Well as i was about to order the
Warp9 today i was told that it WILL not bolt right up, so im unsure what
to do.
Sounds like i may have to buy the ADC motor against my will.....sigh
CWarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> [Gator blades] Yes I tried them. They wear out to fast, and didn't
> seem better to me.
Dale Glubrecht, who designed mowers for John Deere, told me that the
usual spinning blade cutters are very inefficient. The most efficient
are the old reel-type cutters. So what about using the spinning blade
cutter only when necessary, and pulling reel-type cutters for the bulk
of the job? They are a lot quieter, too!
> right now I have 6 orbitals which would give me about 1/2 the amp
> hours you have or 1 acre, so I'm getting 1/4 of that, one lawn,
> probably because of the 2 hydraulic motors that drive and steer
> it and the speed I'm used to.
How about doing what the fork lift guys have been doing forever -- swap
batteries. Have 2 packs that are easily swapped. Put one on charge, and
mow with the other. Swap halfway through the job.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> Kelvin sensing makes tons of sense in the bright white Lab setting.
> Under the hood of a EV with high voltage and current going everywhere,
> it's not going to be easy to get it right. Also the current model
> of Regs only conducts about 3 amps... so there are not really big
> current surges even on the main power pins.
Rich (and others),
Your older Mk1 regulators don't need kelvin sensing if you modify the
circuit a bit to change the mode of operation.
The stock circuit switches the load "on" at one voltage (say 15v) and
"off" at a lower voltage (say 14.9v). If you run it with long wires, the
reg gets an accurate voltage reading while the load is off, but thinks
the battery voltage went down some arbitrary amount when the load
switches on. So it switches off too soon. This leads to erratic
operation.
The "fix" is to add a capacitor to form an RC time delay. When the reg
turns on, it stays on for a fixed time no matter what the apparent
battery voltage it reads with the load on. Then it turns off, checks the
voltage again, and repeats.
This still regulates battery voltage, but doesn't care about long wires
or their resistance.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just upgraded my truck from 96V to 144V(US 145
batteries). I'm still breaking them in, but my longest
trip to date was 27miles. I don't have an e-meter yet
(I just got the slip from the local post office, I'll
have it tonight) and am going by the voltage sag to
determine how the pack is doing. I haven't seen any
sag below 120V yet. That's with a ~300 amp draw after
20 miles. I have my current limit set to 350 and try
to keep the draws at 200 or less. I'm hoping to get 50
miles or better per charge. The truck is heavy and not
very aerodynamic. After conversion weight is 4400
pound with ~40% of that in batteries. I tend to stick
to surface streets with speeds ranging from 30 to
45mph. I live on the top of a ridge apparently, I can
drive quite far away from home without consuming much
juice, but the trip back more than makes up for it. So
it goes.
'61 Rampside
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As a datapoint, the best range I ever got with my mother's '71 SAAB 95
which is also a 144V system using EV145 batteries was about 37 miles.
That included a mix of 30-40mph surface streets (~70%) and ~60mph
highway driving (~30%). I did not have the Cursit 1231 controller
turned down from the stock settings, to current peaks were definitely
higher than your 350A setting, but I do suspect that the old rounded
SAAB wagon is more aerodynamic than a pickup. (Similar car can be seen
at: http://www.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/c/c7/300px-Saab95.jpg )
cheers,
Andrew
TiM M wrote:
I just upgraded my truck from 96V to 144V(US 145
batteries). I'm still breaking them in, but my longest
trip to date was 27miles. I don't have an e-meter yet
(I just got the slip from the local post office, I'll
have it tonight) and am going by the voltage sag to
determine how the pack is doing. I haven't seen any
sag below 120V yet. That's with a ~300 amp draw after
20 miles. I have my current limit set to 350 and try
to keep the draws at 200 or less. I'm hoping to get 50
miles or better per charge. The truck is heavy and not
very aerodynamic. After conversion weight is 4400
pound with ~40% of that in batteries. I tend to stick
to surface streets with speeds ranging from 30 to
45mph. I live on the top of a ridge apparently, I can
drive quite far away from home without consuming much
juice, but the trip back more than makes up for it. So
it goes.
'61 Rampside
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops; I misread the original post. I thought Tim said "EV145" batteries
(12V), but he actually said "US-145" batteries (6V). Very different
animals. Sorry.
Andrew
Andrew Letton wrote:
As a datapoint, the best range I ever got with my mother's '71 SAAB 95
which is also a 144V system using EV145 batteries was about 37 miles.
That included a mix of 30-40mph surface streets (~70%) and ~60mph
highway driving (~30%). I did not have the Cursit 1231 controller
turned down from the stock settings, to current peaks were definitely
higher than your 350A setting, but I do suspect that the old rounded
SAAB wagon is more aerodynamic than a pickup. (Similar car can be seen
at:
http://www.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/c/c7/300px-Saab95.jpg )
cheers,
Andrew
TiM M wrote:
I just upgraded my truck from 96V to 144V(US 145
batteries). I'm still breaking them in, but my longest
trip to date was 27miles. I don't have an e-meter yet
(I just got the slip from the local post office, I'll
have it tonight) and am going by the voltage sag to
determine how the pack is doing. I haven't seen any
sag below 120V yet. That's with a ~300 amp draw after
20 miles. I have my current limit set to 350 and try
to keep the draws at 200 or less. I'm hoping to get 50
miles or better per charge. The truck is heavy and not
very aerodynamic. After conversion weight is 4400
pound with ~40% of that in batteries. I tend to stick
to surface streets with speeds ranging from 30 to
45mph. I live on the top of a ridge apparently, I can
drive quite far away from home without consuming much
juice, but the trip back more than makes up for it. So
it goes.
'61 Rampside
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--- Begin Message ---
Well now after talking to NetGain,
He says that the Warp9 NOT the impulse will bolt right into a ADC9
motormount and Adapter kit with no problems. He says the Impulse9 WILL
NOT>>>
Cwarman
Cwarman wrote:
Well,
Had my heart set on buying the Warp9 with everyones recommendation as
its the best of the two but before I did I was told that it was a
direct replacement for the ADC9 and that if i bought the Motor mount
and tranny kit the warp 9 would bolt right in. Well as i was about to
order the Warp9 today i was told that it WILL not bolt right up, so im
unsure what to do.
Sounds like i may have to buy the ADC motor against my will.....sigh
CWarman
.
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--- Begin Message ---
Maybe you could charge the mower from the truck's pack while driving
between jobs -- or do Lions -- or use a long extension cord :) .
It could be your mower is more efficient than you think, and cutting
grass is just hard work. I'd guess the mower takes about as much
power as cruising a small car at highway speed.
<snipped>
> STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> > right now I have 6 orbitals which would give me about 1/2 the amp
> > hours you have or 1 acre, so I'm getting 1/4 of that, one lawn,
> > probably because of the 2 hydraulic motors that drive and steer
> > it and the speed I'm used to.
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How about doing what the fork lift guys have been doing forever --
> swap
> batteries. Have 2 packs that are easily swapped. Put one on charge,
> and
> mow with the other. Swap halfway through the job.
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--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:50:42 -0700, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>STEVE CLUNN wrote:
>> [Gator blades] Yes I tried them. They wear out to fast, and didn't
>> seem better to me.
>
>Dale Glubrecht, who designed mowers for John Deere, told me that the
>usual spinning blade cutters are very inefficient. The most efficient
>are the old reel-type cutters. So what about using the spinning blade
>cutter only when necessary, and pulling reel-type cutters for the bulk
>of the job? They are a lot quieter, too!
I tried that on my first lawn. Reel mowers seemed so much more
elegant. I very quickly learned that, not being the type who keeps a
perfect lawn, small sticks and rocks (large gravel, really) quickly
jammed the reels. I finally went back to the old fashioned rotary
deck after most of a summer of frustration.
If I could make a reel mower from scratch, using very heavy metal and
a lot of power, this probably would not be a problem. But the
available walk-behind reel mower lacked both the power and the
durability to grind through obstructions.
>
>> right now I have 6 orbitals which would give me about 1/2 the amp
>> hours you have or 1 acre, so I'm getting 1/4 of that, one lawn,
>> probably because of the 2 hydraulic motors that drive and steer
>> it and the speed I'm used to.
>
>How about doing what the fork lift guys have been doing forever -- swap
>batteries. Have 2 packs that are easily swapped. Put one on charge, and
>mow with the other. Swap halfway through the job.
Or, as another alternative for a push mower, at least, use a 120 volt
motor on the mower and power it from a battery/inverter cart. Either
carry enough batteries to do the job or have swappable batteries on
the cart. That makes the push mower MUCH more pleasant to use without
all that battery weight. (yeah, I know this is about a rider but I
thought I'd throw that in.)
My next move is going to be to add electric motive power to the cart
so I don't have to lug it up hills.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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The Impulse motor was not intended as a bolt-in replacement for the 9" ADC
or Warp motor. It's intended as an upgrade replacement for the 8" ADC or
Warp.
My understanding is that it has the same bolt pattern as an 8" motor, and
is also the same length, which is shorter than the standard 9" motor. So
it's not quite as large, but among those cars that don't have room for a
full size 9" motor it's a potential option for folks who want more torque
than an 8" can deliver.
--chris
Cwarman said:
> Well now after talking to NetGain,
>
> He says that the Warp9 NOT the impulse will bolt right into a ADC9
> motormount and Adapter kit with no problems. He says the Impulse9 WILL
> NOT>>>
>
> Cwarman
>
> Cwarman wrote:
>
>> Well,
>>
>> Had my heart set on buying the Warp9 with everyones recommendation as
>> its the best of the two but before I did I was told that it was a
>> direct replacement for the ADC9 and that if i bought the Motor mount
>> and tranny kit the warp 9 would bolt right in. Well as i was about to
>> order the Warp9 today i was told that it WILL not bolt right up, so im
>> unsure what to do.
>>
>> Sounds like i may have to buy the ADC motor against my will.....sigh
>>
>> CWarman
>>
>>
>> .
>>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:11:09 -0700 (PDT), David Dymaxion
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>It could be your mower is more efficient than you think, and cutting
>grass is just hard work. I'd guess the mower takes about as much
>power as cruising a small car at highway speed.
Or can be made more efficient. I didn't like the no-load current draw
from my homemade electric mower. I realized that much of the power is
wasted moving air to blow the clippings out. I ground away most of
the turned-up back side of the blade and rebalanced it. Viola! No
load current draw dropped by about 2/3s and still enough air to move
the clippings out at a decent rate. I'm not going to assault foot
high grass with this thing so the high volume air movement isn't
necessary.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
Your correct and now im straight on that after talking to Netgain.
Before i was told that the impulse 9 was the same as a warp 9 but just
shorter etc and this isnt the case. Its basically a 8 with more pep,
more like a 8.5 etc with everything else you said below true.
My problem came stemming from the fact that i bought a tranny adapter
kit from canev along with a motor mount and was told that a warp 9 would
bolt righ tup no problems, and then yesterday a few people told me that
it wouldnt so i got confused and upset.
Cwarman
Christopher Robison wrote:
The Impulse motor was not intended as a bolt-in replacement for the 9" ADC
or Warp motor. It's intended as an upgrade replacement for the 8" ADC or
Warp.
My understanding is that it has the same bolt pattern as an 8" motor, and
is also the same length, which is shorter than the standard 9" motor. So
it's not quite as large, but among those cars that don't have room for a
full size 9" motor it's a potential option for folks who want more torque
than an 8" can deliver.
--chris
Cwarman said:
Well now after talking to NetGain,
He says that the Warp9 NOT the impulse will bolt right into a ADC9
motormount and Adapter kit with no problems. He says the Impulse9 WILL
NOT>>>
Cwarman
Cwarman wrote:
Well,
Had my heart set on buying the Warp9 with everyones recommendation as
its the best of the two but before I did I was told that it was a
direct replacement for the ADC9 and that if i bought the Motor mount
and tranny kit the warp 9 would bolt right in. Well as i was about to
order the Warp9 today i was told that it WILL not bolt right up, so im
unsure what to do.
Sounds like i may have to buy the ADC motor against my will.....sigh
CWarman
.
.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Mitsubishi's plan to be an EV producing world leader)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/59582/electric_evo_leads_the_charge.html
Wednesday 31st August 2005 Electric Evo leads the charge
Take at look at the most 'electrifying' Evo ever. This
sensational car is part of Mitsubishi's plan to be a world leader
in battery-powered vehicles. It's a Lancer Evo IX featuring
pioneering electric motors set inside the wheels, and is called
MIEV - which stands for Mitsubishi In-Wheel Electric Vehicle.
It uses four low-weight/high-power units that are so compact they
fit inside the hubs with the brake discs, freeing up cabin space.
Powered by lithium-ion batteries fitted under the seats, the car
offers 268bhp and acceleration that is only fractionally slower
than the turbocharged standard machine.
Mitsubishi is entering the MIEV in the Shikoku Rally - a special
event staged for electric vehicles in Japan. Bosses are confident
a production version will arrive by 2010, and say the technology
can be applied to hybrid and fuel-cell vehicles.
Meanwhile, BMW is set to reveal an electric/petrol-powered X3
concept at next month's Frankfurt Motor Show. Instead of a
conventional battery, it has high-performance capacitors that are
more efficient and weigh less. These are so small they fit in the
car's door sills. Sam Hardy
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
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EVLN(Prius? Such a gas guzzler)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.styleweekly.com/article.asp?idarticle=10871
Gas Too Expensive? Rare Electric Car Is Rarin to Go
August 31, 2005
So, Mr. Green, you drive a hybrid Toyota Prius? Such a gas
guzzler. If you really want to cut all ties to Saudi Arabia, try
this little red space-pod on for size. Called a City-El, the
three-wheeled fiberglass convertible runs on electricity alone.
Originally manufactured by a Danish company, fewer than 50 exist
in the United States. One belongs to Midlothian resident John R.
Kenton. He was channel surfing one day, almost 10 years ago, and
was charmed by the little car he saw on a now-defunct technology
show, Beyond 2000.
I said, Wow. Thats fantastic, Kenton recalls. Immediately he
began calling electric vehicle (EV) dealers around the country,
trying to figure out where he could buy one. He eventually found
a 1993 City-El that had been imported to the United States as
part of a demonstration program in Sacramento, Calif.
Kenton says he wanted the City-El as a toy, to drive around.
But he soon discovered that a car with a top speed of 35 mph
wasnt terribly practical in the suburbs. Everybody smiles, he
says of other drivers. Except for those folks Im holding up.
So hes selling his little piece of the future for $8,000. The
City-El would better suit an urban commuter, Kenton says,
especially in these days of painful gas prices. The cost per
mile has got to be just pennies, he declares after a moment of
mental tabulating.
The virtues of the City-El lie primarily in what it lacks: noise
(it turns off entirely when stopped), pollution and parts.
Heres the whole works, Kenton says, lifting a rear panel to
reveal three 12-volt batteries and a modest motor.
The car isnt equipped for real road trips, however. The City-El
goes about 25 to 30 miles on a single charge, which takes two to
eight hours. An available retrofit kit soups up the car so itll
travel 53 miles per hour for up to 40 miles on one charge. Its
street legal and requires a motorcycle license. And its easy to
park, Kenton throws in.
Kenton has long been a fan of electric vehicles for their
efficiency and low environmental impact. Some of the better-known
small EVs include the Sebring-Vanguard CitiCar, a 1970s artifact
some called a cross between a telephone booth and a lawn chair,
and the modern Corbin Sparrow, which looks like a futuristic
running shoe.
Kenton wont mourn the sale of his little City-El. His real baby
is his 1981 Rolls-Royce Corniche convertible. Yet he rarely takes
the black beauty on the open road. Cant afford the gas, he
says wryly. Melissa Scott Sinclair
Letters to the editor may be sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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