EV Digest 4648
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV photos
by Tony Godshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Driving analog gauges
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV photos and Sparrows
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Battery boxes/heaters - range of 144V conversion
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery boxes/heaters - range of 144V conversion
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Hydraulic drive motorcycle
by Tony Godshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Motor temperature
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Driving analog gauges
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Motor temperature
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV photos
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Coolest shape EV by Peugeot
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Buses talk...
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Motor temperature
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Motor temperature
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV photos
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Deka Intimidator
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Peugeot's EV
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Signage
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) 6V Myth, was: Best Flooded Battery
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Best Flooded Battery
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Battery boxes/heaters - range of 144V conversion
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Motor temperature
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Steves Mower, was, 2000 mile range EV?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
According to Victor Tikhonov,
> I haven't seen this message going through, so sorry if repeating:
>
> That's the coolest shape concept EV I've seen so far:
>
> http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/
>
> Images:
>
> http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/gallery/
>
> Victor
Very cute. Would be a bumpy ride though. And I'd hate to
hit a pothole in it.
Best Regards,
Tony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 31, 2005, at 1:00 PM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Trying to find what kind of current (or power) standard automotive
fuel and temp gauges with moving coil consume, (ball park number)
but of course can't find it.
It appears that most senders (except for speedometers) are
resistive elements wired as rheostats and going from some
fixed (tens/hundreds of Ohms) resistance to near zero when the fuel
level/temp/whatever changes
Oh, this is where things will get ugly. Many auto fuel gauges are
thermal type and will read empty when unplugged and may be damaged if
fed auto 12 volts and then grounded. These often use a regulator to
supply them power. The catch is this regulator is often a thermal
vibrator. When the car is not running (but on) the gauge only gets
power between 1/3 and 1/2 the time (it will see 4 to 6 volts.) When the
vehicle is running it will get power even less time as the thermal coil
heats faster (and cooling is limited by the box its in.) With these
gauges the worst case I could fine was aircooled VW and the resistance
of the gauge is only 12 ohms (running at about 4 volts, average.) More
looking may find an even lower resistance gauge in use. To drive the VW
unit I was looking at would mean about 1.25 amps when on (assuming the
+12 regulator was on during that pulse - it switches only 2 to 5 times
a second.) Some newer vehicles still use these gauges because they are
very good at preventing fuel slosh from causing quick changes in
reading. They also handle the variable vehicle voltage quite well if
they use a voltage regulator. Some newer vehicles use this gauge with
an electronic regulator (not quite sure how they may react to PWM - I
may be wise to assume that the regulator will be removed and the gauge
fed strait +12v and looking for your PWM ground.)
Another fuel gauge is the balancing coil gauge. These generally feed
the auto +12 volts in, where it runs through two coils working in
opposite directions. Changes in auto system voltage are naturally
canceled (to a degree) and temperature changes are no longer an issue.
A quick look shows one (I didn't look as much - I'd like to run a
thermal gas gauge) where +12v goes to a 62 ohm coil, then a second 155
ohm coil and finally ground. The fuel gauge sender was connected
between the two coils and was 0 to 100 ohms to ground depending on fuel
level (0 ohms being full.)
Lastly, some modern autos use a capacitive gauge. Two thin metal plates
with a ventilated spacer are in the tank. Electronics use the fact that
the dielectric constant of air and gasoline are quite different. Not
sure of the drive control, I had a hard time finding detailed
information about these.
I'm also not sure about some of the modern fuel gauges that hold their
reading when the vehicle is off. Whatever their design is (a stepper
motor??) they are increasingly common. The Geo Metro (a common
conversion) has this type of gauge as does my Toyota Tacoma Pickup
(another vehicle often converted - but not mine as it only has 12,000
miles on it!)
Hope this helps,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice looking EV Victor, but I suspect you
would look like a June-bug hitting the window
of the first Humvee fleeing a gas station at
60 MPH with stolen gas :-)
Rod
P.S. Sad to say, but I feel even safer driving
around in the Sparrow.
Lots of interested people in this vehicle with current
gas prices.
And if I was single, this is the ultimate chick
magnet.
I don't know what it is about a Sparrow, but women
love them!!
--- Tony Godshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> According to Victor Tikhonov,
> > I haven't seen this message going through, so
> sorry if repeating:
> >
> > That's the coolest shape concept EV I've seen so
> far:
> >
> > http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/
> >
> > Images:
> >
> > http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/gallery/
> >
> > Victor
>
> Very cute. Would be a bumpy ride though. And I'd
> hate to
> hit a pothole in it.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Tony
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi CWarman and Everyone,
CWarman wrote:
I know that my range will decrease by up to 30% in the winter ? Im
hoping that with my 144vlt setup..Warp9, Zilla1k that ill be able to
get 40miles (good possibility?) in the summer and 25-30miles in the
winter ? I have a 8 mile commute each way right now....
If keeping the batterys warm is a concern i really need to address it..
Cwarman
I'm dubious of a 144V setup getting 40 miles. Is anyone with a 144V
pack getting that much? I have a 144V pack of Orbitals in a fairly
aerodynamic vehicle. My range without hurting the batteries on a nice,
warm day is about 16 miles. So let's say your using flooded (or
something else with better capacity) and you get double what the Orbs
get. Then you'd be looking at around 30 miles.
I'm just really curious what others have seen on a regular basis. It's
certainly wise to go into your conversion with a good idea of your
actual range. I'd suggest in the first few months of driving your
conversion you stay about 25-35% under your estimated range. That will
*help* avoid battricide. I noticed in my first weeks of driving my
conversion, I messed up the charging a few times and left not full. I
think the batteries take some breaking-in to get up to full capacity as
well (someone verify me on that one). So taking it easy the first
little while will keep you in the safe zone.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
wow, that's not much range
ev newb here, what's your setup?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: Battery boxes/heaters - range of 144V conversion
Hi CWarman and Everyone,
CWarman wrote:
I know that my range will decrease by up to 30% in the winter ? Im
hoping that with my 144vlt setup..Warp9, Zilla1k that ill be able to
get 40miles (good possibility?) in the summer and 25-30miles in the
winter ? I have a 8 mile commute each way right now....
If keeping the batterys warm is a concern i really need to address it..
Cwarman
I'm dubious of a 144V setup getting 40 miles. Is anyone with a 144V
pack getting that much? I have a 144V pack of Orbitals in a fairly
aerodynamic vehicle. My range without hurting the batteries on a nice,
warm day is about 16 miles. So let's say your using flooded (or
something else with better capacity) and you get double what the Orbs
get. Then you'd be looking at around 30 miles.
I'm just really curious what others have seen on a regular basis. It's
certainly wise to go into your conversion with a good idea of your
actual range. I'd suggest in the first few months of driving your
conversion you stay about 25-35% under your estimated range. That will
*help* avoid battricide. I noticed in my first weeks of driving my
conversion, I messed up the charging a few times and left not full. I
think the batteries take some breaking-in to get up to full capacity as
well (someone verify me on that one). So taking it easy the first
little while will keep you in the safe zone.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to Neon John,
> Relative to the recent discussion about hydraulic drive systems.
>
> http://www.gizmag.com/go/2351/
>
> A two wheel drive dirt bike using hydraulics to transmit to the in-hub
> hydraulic motor on the front wheel. Looks like Yamaha is making it
> work.
"Making it work" is relative. Yes, it's released, it's in
production. But no, it's not efficient enough to use as
main drive.
: Q:It is known that the efficiency of a hydraulic
: transmission is lower than of a mechanical one. How can you
: justify wasting all that power?
:
: LJ: Yes, that is true. But in a motorcycle application the
: front wheel can just transmit very little power. Normally 5%
: and less. But what is important is, if your rear wheel
: starts to spin, then you lose lots of power. What we are
: doing is to take some of that wasted rear-wheel spin and
: instead transmit it to the front wheel. So even if we lose
: some efficiency in the hydraulic transmission, we are
: gaining lots more by reducing rear-wheel spin.
http://tinyurl.com/78kym
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How hot should an ADC 9" motor get? I just got back
from a 16 mile trip with an ~8 minute 200 to 250 amp
pull. (it seems my house is uphill from where ever I
go) Anyway I got home and was going to look into
putting the speed sensor on the motor. The motor
housing was too hot for me to keep my hand on for more
than a few seconds. I checked the embedded temp sensor
and it read open so I guess the inside of the motor
isn't getting too hot. I suppose I need to look into
adding some forced air...
TiM
'61 Electric Rampside
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am familiar with the capacitive sender, I use one in my ultralight.
The driver usually has a frequency based output, but often followed by a
frequency-to-voltage coverter to make it compatible with analog movements.
There are 2 problems with the consistency of the capacitive coefficient
of the fuel. One is the coefficient is temperature dependant but this
is easy to compensate. The second and far more troublesome issue is the
variable alcohol content. Alcohol's capacitive coefficient is 10x that
of gasoline itself! Thus a half full tank of gasoline with 10% alcohol
will read the same as a full tank of pure gasoline. In the USA alcohol
is not only mandated by the EPA but varies season by season. The only
sure fix is a second sensor that reads the capacitive coefficient of the
fuel itself to compensate the depth reading. I pondered the problem and
a two-plate sender guaranteed to be immersed in fuel, perhaps in a
construction similar to an external fuel filter, might be appropriate
but it was just throwing ideas around.
BTW the sender is not two plates. It is a single rod about 1/4"
diameter, and the tank is plastic. It relies on a change in the free
space capacitance. The problems of variations in the capacitive
coefficients would be the same if the level sensor was replaced with a
two plate construction BTW.
Danny
Paul G. wrote:
Lastly, some modern autos use a capacitive gauge. Two thin metal
plates with a ventilated spacer are in the tank. Electronics use the
fact that the dielectric constant of air and gasoline are quite
different. Not sure of the drive control, I had a hard time finding
detailed information about these.
Hope this helps,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's some 24vdc electric radiant heater elements, might work?
http://www.warmfloor.com/
L8r
Ryan
Cwarman wrote:
> What are people doing with thier EV in the winter months, if one doesnt
> have a garage and this vehicle is gonna be used each day for short
> commutes ?
>
> Ive read about some people that will have a heat blanket in the battery
> box..
>
> Does this not have to be on, while the truck is being used ?
>
> Anyone using one of these setups now ?
>
> CWarman
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know this isn't as scientific as you'd like to hear,
but I have the same issue with an 8". You might've
come across my post regarding installing a rubber pad
between the motor and a battery rack above it. I
don't want the rubber melting, nor the epoxy I use to
put it in place.
Sooo, IMHO, the temp. you're getting is not at all
unusual. Even the hobby R/C racers will tell you that
their current-limiting high-wattage resistors and the
motors get quite toasty.
peace,
--- TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How hot should an ADC 9" motor get? I just got back
> from a 16 mile trip with an ~8 minute 200 to 250 amp
> pull. (it seems my house is uphill from where ever I
> go) Anyway I got home and was going to look into
> putting the speed sensor on the motor. The motor
> housing was too hot for me to keep my hand on for
> more
> than a few seconds. I checked the embedded temp
> sensor
> and it read open so I guess the inside of the motor
> isn't getting too hot. I suppose I need to look into
> adding some forced air...
>
> TiM
> '61 Electric Rampside
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The total is 101 SF of surface area which includes the top, bottom and sides or
all the surfaces expose to the ambient temperature.
There were two battery boxes that had 18 inch sides for 2 volt cells.
I no longer used these aluminum battery boxes, because they extended below the
car and which had too much heat loss which also had conductance to the frame of
the EV while it was charging.
I now only use one fiberglass battery box in the middle of the EV which is 6
foot by 4 foot by 1 foot deep for 30 each 6 volt batteries which is 68 sq ft
total outside area which is insulated with 4 inches of poly foam.
I had about 100 feet of this round blue module heating cable around the inside
of the battery boxes. The watts per foot will range from 1 to 2 watts per
foot. Used a Honey Well industrial with a remote bulb type line voltage
thermostat with a adjustable range from 0 to 100 degrees F.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
Great job on the calculations, Roland. However, a 100 sq.ft. battery box
is huge! That would be something like 5' x 8' x 1' high, which is enough
to hold 75 golf cart batteries!
The heaters I've used in my battery boxes, in Minnesota (land of -30
deg.F winters), with about 1" of foam insulation, need about 100 watts
to maintain a 70 deg.F battery temperature on 6 batteries.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the future the roads will be in better condition. :-)
At 8/31/2005 09:42 PM, you wrote:
Very cute. Would be a bumpy ride though. And I'd hate to
hit a pothole in it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ugghhh, that thing looks like it was excreted.... Certainly would be
different. And easy to make.
John
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 15:43:11 -0700, Victor Tikhonov
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I haven't seen this message going through, so sorry if repeating:
>
>That's the coolest shape concept EV I've seen so far:
>
>http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/
>
>Images:
>
>http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/gallery/
>
>Victor
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I never got all that interested in the internals of UARTs or other LSI
chips but I always felt that the guys who designed the chip knew more
about serial protocols than I ever would so I always used a hardware
UART in my designs. I've never designed anything designed to be
manufactured in the millions so the extra cost of the chip didn't
matter. Good, reliable communications sure were appreciated, though.
John
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:11:47 -0700, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Neon John wrote:
>> RS-232... is surprisingly noise resistant when done correctly.
>> Using a high quality shielded twisted pair DB9 cable, the data
>> logger on my Altrax AXE controller works perfectly even though
>> the controller is surrounded by the traction cables.
>
>One thing that helps (and is underestimated by software engineers) is
>that a true hardware UART samples each bit about 16 times, and averages
>them to get the data bit. The serial data can be "shot full of holes"
>from noise spikes, but as long as a majority of the samples within each
>bit are right, it still works without errors.
>
>Most engineers implementing fast serial protocols on cheap micros are
>only sampling a few times per bit (and often just ONCE per bit!). That
>makes them far less immune to random noise on the line. For instance,
>CAN uses 4 samples per bit.
>--
>Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
>injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
>are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My Warp 9 which is the same as a ADC 9 has a sensor that will open at 120 C.
The high temperature limit for the class H windings are about 180 C.
Even though the Warp 9 has a internal fan. I install a Dayton 12 volt 6 inch
diameter blower fan with a 6 inch air filter design for a carburetor.
The fan is mounted on a 1-inch aluminum block, I curved to fit over the front
screen covers over the brushes. They are two tabs that bolt to these blocks
and to the 5/16 tapped bolt holes on the front face of the motor.
The fan is attach to tapped bolt holes in this aluminum block with 6 each 10/32
bolts.
Place 1/8 inch rubber gasket between the block and motor screen cover and
between the block and fan.
I have a extra water temperature gage on my dash, so I will see if the standard
water temperature sender install into a holder over the exhaust screens of this
motor will give me a reading and compare it to the readings on a air
temperature test meter.
Stewart Warner does make a engine temperature meter, where you bolt the sender
to a bolt on the motor which works good too.
You could used a combination of ram air coming in from the outside of the car
trough a duct through a inline air cleaner going to the fan or directly to the
motor.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: TiM M<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV-List-Post<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:10 PM
Subject: Motor temperature
How hot should an ADC 9" motor get? I just got back
from a 16 mile trip with an ~8 minute 200 to 250 amp
pull. (it seems my house is uphill from where ever I
go) Anyway I got home and was going to look into
putting the speed sensor on the motor. The motor
housing was too hot for me to keep my hand on for more
than a few seconds. I checked the embedded temp sensor
and it read open so I guess the inside of the motor
isn't getting too hot. I suppose I need to look into
adding some forced air...
TiM
'61 Electric Rampside
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How do I hook up the red/black leads from the 9" ADC motor? What temp gauge do
I use, etc?
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Once you take a turn too fast, I wonder how far it will roll?
It's interesting from an artistic viewpoint but looks pretty undesirable
from an aero perspective. It's pretty wide and somewhat flat in front
for a vehicle that doesn't even use the space for anything. And the
back doesn't have tapering either. So I'm guessing this is not a high
speed design, in which case they'd be doing a lot of expensive design
and smooth curves for just looks and no technical reason.
Danny
Mark McCurdy wrote:
that's 3 times you've posted this today
my opinion? too much glass, one little fender bender and the rider
would be cut to ribbons
----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 7:16 PM
Subject: EV photos
I haven't seen this message going through, so sorry if repeating:
That's the coolest shape concept EV I've seen so far:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/
Images:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/gallery/
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cwarman,
If you're on a budget you don't want to buy expensive batteries,
charger(s), and BMS. Use 24 six volt golf cart batteries (floodies), and if
you want at least 40 miles of range when the batteries have 20,000 miles on
them, use the largest 6V floody (145's).
BB
>From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [email protected]
>Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:22:13 -0400
>Subject: Archives (was Newbie)
>
>On 8 Aug 2005 at 20:14, Brad Jensen wrote:
>
>> Ok, I can't get the archives to come up. I get object not found at
>> http://www.crest.org/ev-list-archive
>
>There are at least four archives:
>
>http://crest.org/discussion/ev/ (message archive 1997 - early 2003)
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ (current digest archive)
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/ (ad-supported digest archive)
>
>http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/ (ad-supported message
>archive)
>
>And at least one more closed archive whose URL I've forgotten.
>
>
>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>EV List Assistant Administrator
>Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:44:57 -0400
>From: Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Although those are 12-volt batteries and 12 of them strung together
>would give you the 144 volts, I hope you are planning on using 2 or 3
>strings (24 or 36 batteries total). Doing so will raise the cost but if
>not, your range will be pretty minimal. You should also consider some
>sort of regulators or balancing system to keep these nice batteries happy.
>
>
>Cwarman wrote:
>> Im considering the Deka Intimidator battery for my S10 144vlt
>> conversion. They are $99.99 plus shipping online at remybattery.com
>>
>> Any comments on this battery and this price?
>> I was hoping to keep the costs down a bit further than this on my
>> battery pack but its been suggested to me by a few members that these
>> batters are great and will last me a 2+ years easy if treated correctly.
>>
>> The battery talk on here confuses me and need more reinforcement :)
>>
>> CWarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
CWarman,
Again, if you're on a budget you don't want to buy battery heaters (and
extra eeelectricity in the winter). Driving and charging the lead will keep
it warm, and depending on your climate, you can add one inch of blue (for
boys and masculine lesbians, or pink for girls and homosexuals) insulation
on the bottoms and sides of your battery boxes to keep them snug as a bug
in a rug, which I do on the front range of Colorado!
BB
>From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [email protected]
>Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:22:13 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Subject: Archives (was Newbie)
>
>On 8 Aug 2005 at 20:14, Brad Jensen wrote:
>
>> Ok, I can't get the archives to come up. I get object not found at
>> http://www.crest.org/ev-list-archive
>
>There are at least four archives:
>
>http://crest.org/discussion/ev/ (message archive 1997 - early 2003)
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ (current digest archive)
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/ (ad-supported digest archive)
>
>http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/ (ad-supported message
>archive)
>
>And at least one more closed archive whose URL I've forgotten.
>
>
>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>EV List Assistant Administrator
>Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:04:08 -0400
>From: Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>What are people doing with thier EV in the winter months, if one doesnt
>have a garage and this vehicle is gonna be used each day for short
>commutes ?
>
>Ive read about some people that will have a heat blanket in the battery
>box..
>
>Does this not have to be on, while the truck is being used ?
>
>Anyone using one of these setups now ?
>
>CWarman
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Mike,
I wonder who Rush Slimball kicks around now with Clinton/Gore gone, and
Wayland actually listens to left wing radio also?
To elaborate on Mark's post, that's the Partnership for a New Generation of
Vehicles, which I believe was Gore's baby. The gov'ment gave something like
a million of your tax dollars to the big three automakers (not Honda or
Toyota) to come up with an 80 mile per gallon prototype vehicle. And since
history always repeats itself, more of your hard earned money is now being
pissed away on fool cell technology, and who actually builds the highest
mileage vehicles now...
BB
>From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:02:15 -0400
>
>It was the 80mp PNGV program (to have them on the road by 08') cancelled in
>2000 (by you know who). We simulated at GE a diesel hybrid that was close
>to that and VW at the Monaco show (April 05') said they will have a diesel
>hybrid in 06' that will get 75mpg. I saw a guy who put a 3 cylinder Kabota
>diesel tractor in a Austin Heely Sprite and got 80mpg (back in the 60's).
>Mark
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:55 PM
>Subject: Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
>
>
>> Lawrence, your comment reminded me of something I did see Rush say on a
>show
>> which must have been almost 15 years ago. Forgive me if I get things
>wrong,
>> this is from memory.
>> Someone (Clinton or Gore?) was pushing a program to develop cars that got
>> 50 mpg, and Rush was blasting the idea. He said something like, "This is
>> ridiculous, there's already a car that gets 50 mpg. It's called the Geo
>> Metro and nobody wants one!"
>> Fast forward to today when you have a waiting list to get a Prius.
>> I wonder if anyone has a transcript of that?
>> -Mike Ellis
>>
>> On 8/30/05, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > Was the show Rush Limburger? LR...........
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > To: <[email protected]>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:22 AM
>> > Subject: Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
>> >
>> >
>> > > Anyone happen to have a clip of this call-in? I'd like to
>> > > hear the reaction of the radio host to this. :-)
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
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Aerodynamically isn't it going backward? LR...........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: Peugeot's EV
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
That's the coolest shape concept EV I've seen so far:>
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/
My gawd! Just when you think you've seen everything...
How the heck do they provide suspension for those wheels? Where are the
motors and batteries?
--
Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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I haven't decided on the final configuration of my EV's signage yet,
but I know that it will include an oval country-of-origin sticker. But
instead of saying US or UK or whatever, it will say "192v".
You can get these made at lots of places, such as
http://www.makestickers.com/ .
I think I'll also have a "Powered by 100% American Electrons" sticker
too. And I like the idea of the "Gas Free since x/y/z" sign, too.
I'm really looking forward to getting this baby on the road....
On Aug 31, 2005, at 7:16 AM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
As I get closer to getting my EV on the road I am mulling over what I
want displayed in the back.
I am takeing suggestions for license plate, it is a 1987 300zx with 25
orbitals(hopefully) and a zilla 1k pushing a warp9.
license "300VZX, hipotnl, IRsqrd"
frame "My other car uses gas"
or "28Hp, wanna race?"
of course it gets a big suckamps sticker in the back window and a sign
like those "accident free days" that reads something like "25 days gas
free" or "Last gallon of gas bought 25 days ago"
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
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Are two 6V batteries-in-series somehow better than a 12V sibling?
I've seen people assert this before, and I do not understand.
Given the same chemistry and manufacturer, how could 2*6V be better than
12V? Is this a myth, brought to life by some practical experience in the
old daze?
Regards,
Jim Davis, EV newbie
Lee Hart wrote:
Cwarman wrote:
I'm trying to find the best performance/best price flooded 12 volt
battery out there... Any suggestions where I can start looking and
price...
Two 6v golf cart batteries in series :-)
About $100 for a pair will deliver 12v at 220ah at the 20-hour rate, or
130ah at the 1-hour rate.
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Are you building an Electrathon vehicle or something similar?
If not...
If your vehicle design requires 12V flooded batteries, the best advice is
to redo your design. I don't think anyone who has used 12V flooded
batteries in a road going vehicle has been happy with the life span of the
batteries.
For flooded batteries it's hard to beat the price and longevity of T-105,
or similar, 6V GC batteries.
> Im trying to find the best performance/best price flooded 12vlt battery
> out there...
>
> Any suggestions where i can start looking and price..
>
> I wanna start to design the battery boxes this weekend, but trying to
> get my battery choice lined up so i can get some dimensions..
>
>
> Cwarman
>
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
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On Aug 31, 2005, at 7:57 PM, Ryan Bohm wrote:
I'm dubious of a 144V setup getting 40 miles. Is anyone with a 144V
pack getting that much? I have a 144V pack of Orbitals in a fairly
aerodynamic vehicle. My range without hurting the batteries on a
nice, warm day is about 16 miles. So let's say your using flooded (or
something else with better capacity) and you get double what the Orbs
get. Then you'd be looking at around 30 miles.
No, a pack is 6v floodeds is more than double an Optima. Range is more
or less pounds of lead, 2 golf cart batteries are worth about 3 Optimas
for range (and 1/2 an Optima for fun :-) Most EVs running 120 to 144
volts of 6 volt GC batteries can make 40 miles per charge in the
summer.
Paul "neon" G.
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The sender or sensor is just a thermo overload that is design to trip at about
120 degrees C. Used one of the ignition on circuits from your fuse panel.
Fuse it for about 1 amp going to one of the sensor leads coming from the motor
Run the other lead to a 12 VDC LED that you mount on the Dash. If the thermo
sensor closes indicating a temperature at or above 120 C, then the LED will
come on.
My thermo senser on my warp motor is normally close. Used a ohm meter or a
simple light indicator to check if your sender is normally close while the
motor is cold or open while the motor is cold.
If it normally close, it will light up the Dash LED all the time. It will turn
off the LED when the motor gets too hot.
The reason they used a normally closed thermo sensor, so you could connect it
in series with the motor controller 12 VDC power. Now when the motor
temperature gets too high, it will shut down your controller.
For safety reasons, if you do this, you should install a by pass switch, so you
can still drive the vehicle off the road.
I plan to connect this thermo output circuit to a small plug in glass 12 VDC
relay coil. The relay contacts which has both normally open NO and normally
close NC contacts, will have the same 12 VDC power going to the relay coil,
jumper to one of the NC contacts in the relay and than out to a LED on the dash
or to a Display Indicator Panel.
This will now light up the Indicator when the motor gets too hot. If you also
connect it up to a sound indicator, used a shut off switch for the sound
indicator.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Rush<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: Motor temperature
How do I hook up the red/black leads from the 9" ADC motor? What temp gauge
do I use, etc?
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org<http://www.ironandwood.org/>
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey"
Steve;
My Elec-trak, like most others, has 6 golf cart batteries, it will cut
almost 2 acres on a single charge, probably more with a well manicured
lawn. Do you use Gator Blades, we've noticed they use almost twice the
power as standard lift non-mulching blades.
Yes I tried them , they wear out to fast , and didn't seem better to me . ,
right now I have 6 orbitals which would give me about 1/2 th amp hours you
have or 1 acre , so I'm getting 1/4 of that , one lawn , probable because of
the 2 hydraulic motors that drive and steer it and the speed I'm use to .
My ET weighs 1275 lbs with me on it.
I think I;m at 800 or maybe 1000 with me on it .
>Are you sure you can't use the heavier batt pack??
not realy sure and I have though about adding another 6 orbitals , its ok
right now but I can feel the extra weight.
.>why are you concerned with weight? I understand your machine is a ZTR and
the extra weight might be an issue,
This whole mower thing has made me see things the way most people who burn
gas think , I'm singing that same song I've had so many sing to me , " I
want to go electric but I don't want things to be any harder for me than
they are right now , better is ok but less is not. :-) ". I've been hot
ridding my mower for years , twiking it , and balancing it , so we can
dance ( mower and me ) through people's yards at speeds that make me feel
like a race car driver , 10 mph and 1/2 form the side of your house , around
poles and trees . Its not just me , ZTR ( zero turn radius ) mowers changed
everything in the lawn mowing bis , even after 20 years of driving a ztr I
still enjoy it some how ,I think its kind of the same thing that race car
drivers experience, things are happening so fast that your mind has to stay
in the present totally. Now how can you have this kind of fun without
tearing up people's yards , well weight and skill , I seldom run anything
over . . so just like the gas burner's I don't want to give up any of this
but I've had a taste of electric and it is so nice , very nice , so now I'm
trying to get both. .
if you do the back and forth mowing. If that's the case though I would
strongly suggest dumping the hydro drive and go direct drive
yes this is my plan , I'm thinking two golf cart controllers one for each
wheel , and some series motors that I got form surplus supply.
with two sepex motors, to take full advantage of the stop and go
regenerability (oooh, a new word, makes me feel kind of Wayland-esque).
we are talking about small motors around 1 hp . do they make them this small
? what about a controller for this . this might realy be needed.
here is one thing I'm a little worried about , when I'm on a hill going
sideways I afton have the wheel that's on the hi side of the hill being
braked hard ( this is done by pulling back on the steering lever and this
kind of pulls that wheel like its in reverse but the wheel is still going
forward ,just enough to keep the mower on the hill , this keeps the mower
going straight while leaning on a ( up to 45*) angle , the wheel is not
going backwards but it is being slowed quite a bit ( unless I start to lose
it and then its going back words aas I slide down the hill ) , while the
wheel on the low side dose all the work pushing forward and holding the
mower on the hill . I wouldn't be about to run a electric motor this way I
don't think , that would be like going down a hill putting the car in
reverse and slowing it down by pushing the go peddle . a controller killer
for sure , there might me enough drag form the now 2 jack shafts ( needed 2
to get the ratio close ) or some how I'll make the motor brake when the
controller leaver is in neutral. . There is some stuff to work out , . I
know spending over 10k for batteries for a mower seems like allot but a new
one is more than that, I've never had a new one ( so I can spend the money I
would for a new one on batteries) , there are lots of lawn men with $500
trucks and 2 new ZTR's on there trailers , we like the best when it comes to
equipment . I'm also thinking that I could take them off the mower and put
them in some ev ( like Jerry's new freedom ev ) to do the tour da sole , 210
lbs of 130 ah 72v li -i0n in that light freedom ev , any ideas of the range
that would have .
I have a feeling that if this ev mower works I my have a 10x ev grin going ,
and that's gone'a hurt.
Steve clunn
Stay Charged!
Hump
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> I suppose first we need to define what comprises "a bus" so we speak
> the same language.
-snip-
> Exactly. So what do you use with EVil bus hardware, so the collection
> of optos, transistors and phone jacks you skillfuly put together
> become a "bus" (which I define as a combination of the software and
> hardware capable of providing useful data traffic)?
I was going to say that you were alone in your definition, but after
taking a look on the internet it appears that many people make the same
mistake.
A "bus" *traditionally* specifies a hardware and electrical interface.
I.e. this pin/contact carries data with a voltage level of x representing
a 1; and y representing a 0, this pin is a clock, etc.
The data and protocol that flows across a bus is NOT defined by the bus,
nor does it define the bus. Generally a given bus can handle any kind of
data protocol, etc. you want to transmit across it.
If you look at the specs for rs232, EIA530/422/etc. NONE of the
specifications mention data or protocol.
Recently things like CANbus have muddied the waters, since CANbus
specifies a network architecture, bus interface standard, and data
protocol.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
