EV Digest 4675
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Home Garage Lift (For EV Conversion)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Buses talk...
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EV pulbicity Re: Montreal Gazette article today, Sept. 6
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Shunt motor regen setup
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) IOTA
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Long range RE: Frustr. of AC vs. DC; batt. tech. for newbies;
philosophizing
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: alternator regen -- Re: Shunt motor regen setup
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) NEDRA race location change?
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Hooking up idiot lights to the 12v system.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Critical Mass
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: NEDRA race location change?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Critical Mass
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Vas: Re: Steves Mower, was, 2000 mile range EV?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Closed tailgate of the truck
by "arthur marquardt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Zortched
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Critical Mass
by Matthew Trevaskis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Long range RE: Frustr. of AC vs. DC; batt. tech. for newbies;
philosophizing
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Critical Mass
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Critical Mass
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) 924 EV
by "Ray Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Siemens EV Motors
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
To avoid these problems I just dug up a grease pit in my garage.
Tim Clevenger wrote:
That looks cool. Problem with a conversion, of course, is that the
weight distribution changes with each modification you make. You'd
have to make extra sure that you adjusted for when the ICE is
removed, the electric motor reinstalled, the batteries installed,
etc.
I would probably look into getting some tall transmission jacks
to put under each axle after it was lifted into place as extra
protection.
Tim
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 07:16:17PM +0000, damon henry wrote:
> Why not... easy I don't believe the material that forms the bus will be
> useable in 228 years.
The real question is, if the material that makes up the buss fails, will that
error be detected? :)
If yes, then it has lived up to its claim.
> You show me one piece of electronics that is still
> functional from 228 years ago and then I'll believe :-)
> That's what makes
> this claim ridiculous, not that the theory is wrong or even tough to
> understand, just that the implemtation trumps the theory.
> Either these numbers were made up by someone in marketing, or someone has
> been engineering in a vacuum again. Besides why say 1 error in 1000
> years, why not just say error free over the lifetime.
Well, the length of time is just a probability. The error could occur in the
beginning of the products life, this is highly unlikely. The next question you
would ask if I told you "highly unlikely" might be "How unlikely?". By
giving you this number, you don't need to ask.
> Surely if you can claim only
> one undetected error over an unrealistic timeframe it is no more of a
> stretch to claim error free.
This is just telling you how error free. I will admit that "no errors before
the heat death of the universe" does have a little bit of marketing ring
to it thought. :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Doug and All,
Way to go Doug !!
There is starting to be a lot of EV related articles
especially on the plug in Prius project that has did full page spreads and
smaller articles and many mentions other the last month, Probably 30 times I
noticed on TV or the paper.
The Local TV talk show Kathy Fountain want me to be a show
as soon as I have a Freedom EV running.
So all you out there call in your local talk shows, write
your local papers and tell them about the joys of EV's. .Mention the jobs,
national, economic security aspects of it too as that gets the attention of
many who wouldn't consider them before.
Now is the time to counter act the misinformation the auto
companies have been spreading.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
Doug Hartley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Alain,
A man walking his dog flagged me down on Lakeshore road Thursday morning while
I was on my way to work in the Skoda hatchback. It turns out he was David Yates
who writes for the Gazette. He wanted to do a story related to my electric car
and the high price of gasoline (which was about to reach a high of $1.47/liter
that day). He came to the house Friday night, just after the Gazette
photographer, Gordon, who arrived in a Smart car. The article appeared in this
morning's Gazette and it prompted a call from CJAD radio for a live interview
over the phone.
The article was headlined "Motorist gets a charge out of ignoring gas pumps"
The well composed picture included my 8 year-old daughter Melissa on her
electric 3-wheel scooter as well as me beside the open hood of the hatchback,
with the nose of the Prius and the Skoda pickup behind. The article
(unfortunately not online on the Gazette site) starts: "Douglas Hartley is the
envy of a lot of motorists these days. His daily commute to work - a round trip
of 25 kilometers - costs him a paltry 50 cents, thanks to the electric car he
bought three years ago." The article finished with many of the links I had
provided: www.evworld.com, video documentary: The End of Suburbia available
from www.globaloutlook.ca, www.after-oil.co.uk, www.vehiclevert.org, and the
EVDL.
Overall, I think it was some good exposure for EVs at a time when many people
are receptive.
Best Regards,
Doug
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you mean the Curtis 121R regen controller, I *think* it uses the PWM
to drive just the field, and feeds the generated armature voltage thru a
diode to charge the batteries. Otmar might know for sure. Otmar?
The Curtis 1221R and the Zapi H2 both work the same way. Instead of the
motor being in parallel with the free-wheel diode, it's reconfigured to be
accross the Mosfet. Now you can operate the circuit as a boost converter;
Drive the throttle input to 100% and control via the current limit. The
trouble is that if you just short out a series motor, you collapse both
armature and stator fields and the motor won't generate. The trick is to
keep the field polarity the same so that the residual magnetism in the frame
will self-excite the motor as a generator. Many moons ago when Otmar
modified a standard curtis to regen, he used a 'field tickler' circuit
instead.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So has anyone mentioned that these IOTA DLS-55AMP Power Converters would not work well in a EV and if there would be any special considerations on using one of these as opposed to a Zivan NG1 or any other type of DC DC converter that everyone else is using.
The link to ebay to one of these auctions is
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4573062189&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
Thanks
Cwarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Don and All,
Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Bob,
I think your lumping AC/DC along with battery technology together is
incorrect.
* People are using Lithium batteries with lower voltage DC systems.
* People are using Lead Acid with high voltage AC systems.
I think your complaint is simple. It has little to do with AC or DC, high
or low voltage. Your complaint is the standard: current battery technology
sucks and does not allow us the range we get with our ICE vehicles. Either
that, or better range is just too darn expensive.
What can we do about it? Fork out the cash, or drive less. Invent a new
battery? Maybe ride the bike more? I am not sure.
There is a better, cheaper way by building an Aero, lightweight built
as EV vehicles that can get 100 mile range with fewer lead batts, thus giving
better performance for much less money.
Other ways are convert very light, aero cars like the Karman Ghia or
kit cars.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Best I will do is change what I can and work with what I can't.
Don
P.S. I may be a bit odd here, but I **like** liquid cooling. I love it in my
siemens controller and motor, and I am one of the people who asked Rich for
a liquid cooled charger. It allows closer placement in closed areas, as
well as more compact design (e.g. Rich's liquid cooled charger puts out 25%
more power). Much more flexibility. Yes it requires plumbing, radiator and a
pump, but this is the compromise I chose for this flexibility.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Bath
Sent: September 6, 2005 6:28 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Frustr. of AC vs. DC; batt. tech. for newbies; philosophizing
Let's see if I've got this straight...
If we want longer range and less space/weight in our rigs taken up by
batteries, the current solution is to move from flooded lead acid to LiPo.
But LiPos can't have hard current pulls. So we have to compensate with
higher voltages.
But our DC series wound (cheap) motors can't take the higher voltages, but
_are_ made for higher current.
So we upgrade to an AC controller and motor that does _best_ with higher
voltages & lower current.
But the LiPo batteries also need careful thermal regulation on current both
on driving, and on charging. And the controllers in some cases need water
cooling, adding yet another layer of complexity.
In summary, we either drive a $6-9,000 DC floodie EV with short range, or we
drive a $50,000 AC LiPo EV using some parts from corporations (Siemens,
Metric Mind), and others that either our fellow hobbyists are cranking out,
or which we cobble together from a schematic ourselves.
Ummm, door number three, people? (Bide our time for LiPo regulation to
become more ubiquitous? Wait for the Subaru and Mitsubishi EVs to hit the
markets?)
If Toyota is sitting on a pile of cash, _they_ would seem to be the best
candidate to (re)-introduce EVs, and eat some R&D startup costs, _not_
Mitsubishi heavy Ind. or Subaru...
And what about the heat pumps that were in the RAV4_EV? Who made them?
Where can we get them?
Is that about where us on-roaders are, or am I missing something after 6
years on the list?
peace,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the stopping power is the crucial factor in hilly San Francisco. If
you get some power back whoopdedoo. LR>...........
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: alternator regen -- Re: Shunt motor regen setup
Using an alternator, or two in my case to add regen to my Tropica has
always intrigued me but after doing some REALLY rough math I wonder if
it's really worth it. Like I said really rough.
If put 2 60 amp alternators, one on each rear drive, I can get 120 amps
into the batteries at 72v.
So far so good. I have 40 stops on my 15 mile commute so lets say I hit
half of the red lights and stop 20 times. Let's say it takes me 10 seconds
to stop. I don't get 120 amps the whole time so lets say I get 60 amps
average over the 10 seconds. That would mean 10 amp minutes / stop.
Multiply that by 20 stops and I get 200 amp minutes or 3.3 amp hours back
into the batteries over the whole trip. For the 15 mile trip, I normally
have to run the 12 amp charger for just under 4 hrs to get out of the bulk
phase so 1 hr at 12 amp = 4 miles of driving. So my regen puts in about 1
miles worth of charge back in. Seems like a lot of work for a little
return unless you need the breaking power. I'm also ignoring the benefit I
would get by giving the batteries a bit of charge right before I would be
starting out from a stop.
Am I even close?
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:36:18 -0700
Subject: Re: alternator regen -- Re: Shunt motor regen setup
Brian Staffanson wrote:
So any alternator will deliver the rated current at other voltages?
Yes!
What is the maximum voltage you can get from an alternator, and
still have the rated current? Does it depend only on how fast it
is spinning?
The output current is defined (and limited) by the wire size it is wound
with, and the current rating of the diodes. Exceed the current rating,
and it gets very hot -- hot enough to die soon. (Even rated current is
optimistic; it assumes really good airflow and a low ambient air
temperature -- neither of these true under the hood of an ICE).
Volts = K x rpm x FieldCurrent where K is some constant for any given
alternator. Thus to double the voltage, you have to either double the
rpm or double the field current.
You can only increase the field current to whatver you get with a full
12v applied to it. Increasing it beyond this point does raise the
voltage further, but will also overheat the field winding and burn it
out. So you can only do this briefly.
RPM: Alternators are built to work at speeds in excess of 12,000 rpm.
With 12v on the field, this will easily produce 100-200 volts output.
The risk is that the diodes or some other weak spot in the insulation
will fail. They only build and test it for about 50 volts. So anything
over 50 volts depends on luck or installing better diodes and extra
insulation.
Would it be better to get a zener diode to regulate the voltage?
The regulators do use a zener diode. But it is used with a power
transistor to control the field current.
Doesn?t the alternator just produce AC, and there is a regulator
that changes it to DC?
Correct. It's a "rectifier" that converts AC into DC. There are six
diodes inside the alternator to do this.
does the speed affect frequency? Or amplitude?
Yes, and yes. Doubling the speed doubles the voltage *and* frequency.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This year's poor spectator and participant turnout numbers at Woodburn
caused some significant discussion on the topic of how to grow this
sport amongst a number of people in attendance.
I understand the desire to choose a geographic location that is
accessible to a large number of users, but I don't believe Woodburn is
the best choice for a NEDRA event, ESPECIALLY the nationals. Woodburn is
literally in the middle of nowhere and honestly, I could see no impact
nor interest in the EV racing from the Jr dragster crowd. I don't think
we are changing any perspectives or planting any seeds there.
The Wayland Invitational made this painfully obvious. There were FAR
more spectators and FAR more serious racing participants. Additionally,
the electrics were having FAR more impact on both spectators and racers
alike. A number of people were comparing the electrics favorably with
full blown race rigs and many seeds are planted every time Plasma Boy
makes a good showing at the evening drags.
Add the fact that the track is located in a major population center and
you actually have some ability to promote a national championship event
locally to improve the turnout (at least among the spectators).
I think that if the NEDRA leadership is serious about growing this
sport, they need to locate the nationals in a population center, and
time it to cooincide with another significant racing event so that the
electrics can have the maximum impact possible. The Portland track would
make an excellent choice and they are even serviced by an electric train
so that people can attend without burning gas to get there.
In my opinion, Woodburn just isn't cutting it. Even with Wired coverage
of the event before hand, we had the lowest turnout ever during a year
with unprecidented interest in electrics. I believe it is time for a
change.
Do you want to maintain the status quo of dwindling participation, or do
you want to make some changes to insure a future for this sport?
I'm sure I am not the first person to make these suggestions.
Something to think about....
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought of a nice little service the alternator wires can do is Provide a
path for high amps from the DC/DC. Detect undervoltage in the 12v system
and drive the idiot light if it fails. I forget what the wires do now but
the lighter gauge wires provide detection and a driver line. Has anyone
done this? While I'm at it it sure would be nice if I could drive the Fuel
gauge through a resistor. That'd be a cute trick. LR.......
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I only know about one European country, Croatia. Electricity there is 15
cents a kilowatt hour and gas is around $5.00 per gallon, a bit less
expensive than other parts of Europe. I am not sure why. Still at 15 cents a
kilowatt electric transportation would still be a bargain, especially
scooters.
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Critical Mass
Then in the UK where they pay $7 per gallon or Europe at $6 per gallon why
isn't EVeryone buying EV's? I don't understand is electricity also to the
moon?
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 1:37 AM
Subject: Critical Mass
Howdy Folks
I have been saying these two words to the EV industry folks I have been
talking to all weekend at the EV drags and everyone sorta nods their head
like... Yeah, that could be coming.
Looking over Bruce Parmenter's recent EVLN posts makes me think it is
even
more here than I thought.
I talk to folks everywhere I go about EVs, not just at work, and the
amount
of interest has never been higher.
It is not just the cost of fuel (of all types), though the economics of
it
are an undeniably large factor. I believe more folks are understanding
that
the effects of peak worldwide oil production and the effects of global
warming are actually upon us. Long term non fossil fuel energy solutions
are
desperately needed worldwide and folks see EVs charged by cleaner forms
of
energy as a part of it.
When I give them the numbers.... [folks in the USA are less than 5
percent
of global population using more than 25 percent of the planet's energy
resources] they seem to be paying more attention now.
Believe it or not, I did think twice before including the following
paragraph, I simply believe that time is too short to be catering to
folks
that base their attacks on others driven by their own ignorance anymore.
Any of you folks that don't believe in peak oil or global warming driven
by
human activity, please don't bother, even off-list, you will get no
arguement from me. This is not political, it is reality. Go learn
something
and be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem. You
know
who you are. Do the words "environmental wackos" jog any memories?
That term sounds political to me and I am certain it is very offensive to
many if not most on this list and no punches will be pulled in the future
on
folks who use it, get off it or get off this (non political) list.
end rant, flame powered down.
I won't be responding to comments on this post and if the List Gods see
fit
to toss me off this list for posting it, so be it.
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
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--- Begin Message ---
Portland International Raceway does appear to be EV friendly by the way they
let John go to the head of the line. I don't feel that the owner of Woodburn
gives a darn whether we are there or not even though we have gotten him
world press and TV. In fact the owner had told us a date last year that
would work for us and then after we had agreed on that date he decided to
close down the track that weekend. PIR could benefit from us as we could
benefit from them. This is a good suggestion and I will bring it up to the
board.
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA President
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:28 AM
Subject: NEDRA race location change?
This year's poor spectator and participant turnout numbers at Woodburn
caused some significant discussion on the topic of how to grow this sport
amongst a number of people in attendance.
I understand the desire to choose a geographic location that is accessible
to a large number of users, but I don't believe Woodburn is the best
choice for a NEDRA event, ESPECIALLY the nationals. Woodburn is literally
in the middle of nowhere and honestly, I could see no impact nor interest
in the EV racing from the Jr dragster crowd. I don't think we are changing
any perspectives or planting any seeds there.
The Wayland Invitational made this painfully obvious. There were FAR more
spectators and FAR more serious racing participants. Additionally, the
electrics were having FAR more impact on both spectators and racers alike.
A number of people were comparing the electrics favorably with full blown
race rigs and many seeds are planted every time Plasma Boy makes a good
showing at the evening drags.
Add the fact that the track is located in a major population center and
you actually have some ability to promote a national championship event
locally to improve the turnout (at least among the spectators).
I think that if the NEDRA leadership is serious about growing this sport,
they need to locate the nationals in a population center, and time it to
cooincide with another significant racing event so that the electrics can
have the maximum impact possible. The Portland track would make an
excellent choice and they are even serviced by an electric train so that
people can attend without burning gas to get there.
In my opinion, Woodburn just isn't cutting it. Even with Wired coverage of
the event before hand, we had the lowest turnout ever during a year with
unprecidented interest in electrics. I believe it is time for a change.
Do you want to maintain the status quo of dwindling participation, or do
you want to make some changes to insure a future for this sport?
I'm sure I am not the first person to make these suggestions.
Something to think about....
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/93 - Release Date: 9/8/2005
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/8/05, Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Then in the UK where they pay $7 per gallon or Europe at $6 per gallon why
> isn't EVeryone buying EV's? I don't understand is electricity also to the
> moon?
> Mark
Shrug. 1 GBP per litre is still too cheap, apparently!
EVs are selling well in London where they're exempt from the (5 GBP
per day?) congestion charge.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seppo Lindborg wrote:
> I was a little kid, some 9-10 years old. I was visiting a construction site
> where my dad worked. One caterpillar had blown its motor completely at a
> critically scheduled project. While waiting for the replacement motor, my
> father had made a temporary fix by taking the motor out and installing a big
> 3-phase electric motor instead. It was connected with a thick cord to the
> electricity distribution cabinet beside the working area... Obviously it was
> not too manouverable, they could work only a small area at a time and the
> driver had to keep constant watch for the cord. But it was enough to limp
> through that task and keep the overall project going.
We have some big open-pit taconite mines in northern Minnesota. The
gigantic earth-moving shovels they use are electric, and run on long
"extension cords". The shovel might take all day to move 100 feet, so
the cord is an acceptable option. PS: The cord is bigger than your arm!
--
Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about tonneau covers less or more drag?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: Closed tailgate of the truck
> Do you recall if they tested the difference between a short bed and a
longbed truck.
>
> I know with my shortbox truck (6ft) that keeping the gate up is indeed
better. but I seem to recall that the gate down on the longbed (8ft) was
better, but it probably wasn't.
>
> It seems like it would be really easy to test this on an EV truck.
>
>
> Stay Charged!
>
> Hump
>
>
>
>
> Original Message -----------------------
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 2:54 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Closed tailgate of the truck
>
> Despite very spread misconseption about closed tailgate of the truck
> increasing grag, you will find that keeping it closed will
> *reduce* the drag compared to open gate.
>
> I can explain why, but do your careful measurements.
> It was great talk about this very issue on KTSA radio in San Antinio years
> ago. The drag was measured and closed gate won, which is very
> counterintuitive. But one can't argue with measurable facts. Only ignore
> them.
>
> Victor
>
> Mark Hastings wrote:
>
> >
> > I think tommorow I'm going to drop my tailgate like I see so many
> > other pickups do. That is where the electric vehicle sign is pretty
> > much embedded in. I do have two large purple electric cords on the
> > side that I can't get rid of but maybe they'll think I'm an
> > electrician.
> >
>
>
>
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I believe "zourch" is the spelling they use in the UK:^O
Marv
> From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 22:32:13 -0700
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Zortched
>
>
>> John just called and he is now heading over the mountain with his motor
>> and we should be able to perform a zourchindectimee before we leave today.
>> Can't tell you how much fun it has been to have been part of what Matt and
>> I call "the Zourch seen round the world" but it does somehow feel a little
>> like getting caught in your underwear while checking your mail. I'd like
>> to give credit to whoever coined the phrase Zourched as it is now a common
>> word here at Hi-Torque. You guys have changed my world and I thank each
>> and every one of you
>> Cya
>> Jim Husted
>
> Hi Jim
>
> I believe that the spelling of this word that has been adopted by most is
> actually "Zortched" or "Zortch".
>
> Also see http://www.zortch.com :^D
>
> Cya!
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Because "they" won't let us!! There is one (1) road-going EV (discounting
the 40mph microcars etc.) that is available to purchase. Most of the
European EVs are never offered here (through official dealers ;-) let alone
the Japanese and NA models :-(
Yep, EVs cost about 10% to fuel using off-peak electricity compared to
petrol, but you've got to find the vehicles first!
Matt
--
Matthew Trevaskis
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
For electric vehicles, recharging installations and accessories
ecodrive PO Box 255 Penzance TR18 9AA
Tel: 0845 4-NO-FUEL (0845 466 3835)
Fax*: 0845 466 4624
http://www.eco-drive.co.uk
*Fax modem will receive faxes electronically (without using paper) 8am-6pm
Mon-Sat
> From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:51:08 -0400
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Critical Mass
>
> Then in the UK where they pay $7 per gallon or Europe at $6 per gallon why
> isn't EVeryone buying EV's? I don't understand is electricity also to the
> moon?
> Mark
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 1:37 AM
> Subject: Critical Mass
>
>
>>
>> Howdy Folks
>>
>> I have been saying these two words to the EV industry folks I have been
>> talking to all weekend at the EV drags and everyone sorta nods their head
>> like... Yeah, that could be coming.
>>
>> Looking over Bruce Parmenter's recent EVLN posts makes me think it is even
>> more here than I thought.
>>
>> I talk to folks everywhere I go about EVs, not just at work, and the
> amount
>> of interest has never been higher.
>>
>> It is not just the cost of fuel (of all types), though the economics of it
>> are an undeniably large factor. I believe more folks are understanding
> that
>> the effects of peak worldwide oil production and the effects of global
>> warming are actually upon us. Long term non fossil fuel energy solutions
> are
>> desperately needed worldwide and folks see EVs charged by cleaner forms of
>> energy as a part of it.
>>
>> When I give them the numbers.... [folks in the USA are less than 5 percent
>> of global population using more than 25 percent of the planet's energy
>> resources] they seem to be paying more attention now.
>>
>> Believe it or not, I did think twice before including the following
>> paragraph, I simply believe that time is too short to be catering to folks
>> that base their attacks on others driven by their own ignorance anymore.
>>
>> Any of you folks that don't believe in peak oil or global warming driven
> by
>> human activity, please don't bother, even off-list, you will get no
>> arguement from me. This is not political, it is reality. Go learn
> something
>> and be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem. You know
>> who you are. Do the words "environmental wackos" jog any memories?
>> That term sounds political to me and I am certain it is very offensive to
>> many if not most on this list and no punches will be pulled in the future
> on
>> folks who use it, get off it or get off this (non political) list.
>>
>> end rant, flame powered down.
>>
>> I won't be responding to comments on this post and if the List Gods see
> fit
>> to toss me off this list for posting it, so be it.
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Roy LeMeur
>> Olympia WA
>>
>> My Electric Vehicle Pages:
>> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>>
>> Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
>> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>>
>> EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
>> http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
>>
>
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Jerry, good point. A lighter vehicle and or more aero vehicle is a great
way to improve range. If there is one lesson I have learned with the New
Beetle is that it is **not** a small or lightweight car. Nowhere similar to
its predecessor.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jerry dycus
Sent: September 8, 2005 12:49 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Long range RE: Frustr. of AC vs. DC; batt. tech. for newbies;
philosophizing
Hi Don and All,
Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Bob,
I think your lumping AC/DC along with battery technology together is
incorrect.
* People are using Lithium batteries with lower voltage DC systems.
* People are using Lead Acid with high voltage AC systems.
I think your complaint is simple. It has little to do with AC or DC, high or
low voltage. Your complaint is the standard: current battery technology
sucks and does not allow us the range we get with our ICE vehicles. Either
that, or better range is just too darn expensive.
What can we do about it? Fork out the cash, or drive less. Invent a new
battery? Maybe ride the bike more? I am not sure.
There is a better, cheaper way by building an Aero, lightweight
built as EV vehicles that can get 100 mile range with fewer lead batts, thus
giving better performance for much less money.
Other ways are convert very light, aero cars like the Karman Ghia
or kit cars.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Best I will do is change what I can and work with what I can't.
Don
P.S. I may be a bit odd here, but I **like** liquid cooling. I love it in my
siemens controller and motor, and I am one of the people who asked Rich for
a liquid cooled charger. It allows closer placement in closed areas, as well
as more compact design (e.g. Rich's liquid cooled charger puts out 25% more
power). Much more flexibility. Yes it requires plumbing, radiator and a
pump, but this is the compromise I chose for this flexibility.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Bath
Sent: September 6, 2005 6:28 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Frustr. of AC vs. DC; batt. tech. for newbies; philosophizing
Let's see if I've got this straight...
If we want longer range and less space/weight in our rigs taken up by
batteries, the current solution is to move from flooded lead acid to LiPo.
But LiPos can't have hard current pulls. So we have to compensate with
higher voltages.
But our DC series wound (cheap) motors can't take the higher voltages, but
_are_ made for higher current.
So we upgrade to an AC controller and motor that does _best_ with higher
voltages & lower current.
But the LiPo batteries also need careful thermal regulation on current both
on driving, and on charging. And the controllers in some cases need water
cooling, adding yet another layer of complexity.
In summary, we either drive a $6-9,000 DC floodie EV with short range, or we
drive a $50,000 AC LiPo EV using some parts from corporations (Siemens,
Metric Mind), and others that either our fellow hobbyists are cranking out,
or which we cobble together from a schematic ourselves.
Ummm, door number three, people? (Bide our time for LiPo regulation to
become more ubiquitous? Wait for the Subaru and Mitsubishi EVs to hit the
markets?)
If Toyota is sitting on a pile of cash, _they_ would seem to be the best
candidate to (re)-introduce EVs, and eat some R&D startup costs, _not_
Mitsubishi heavy Ind. or Subaru...
And what about the heat pumps that were in the RAV4_EV? Who made them?
Where can we get them?
Is that about where us on-roaders are, or am I missing something after 6
years on the list?
peace,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
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On 2005-09-08, Mark Hanson wrote:
>
> Then in the UK where they pay $7 per gallon or Europe at $6 per gallon why
> isn't EVeryone buying EV's?
Umm ... functional public transport?
Also, I've found while "doing the numbers" on my plans for an EV bike,
motors and controllers and such are much cheaper in the States than in
Australia, probably just because of the size of the market. For the
difference in price, I could fly to the States and fly back with a
very heavy suitcase ...
-----sharks
--
Nick 'Sharkey' Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://zoic.org/sharkey/>
AUSTIN, TEXAS: Sabrina, 6, was abducted by her non-custodial mother on
April 19, 2002. She has been sighted in Mexico City. Reward Offered.
<http://findsabrina.org/> <http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/parent/llorens.htm>
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Mind you that most european cars get much better mileage than the
comparable (according US consumers: same usage) cars.
It is not that the US cars are so much worse in consumption, but
nobody in Europe would consider commuting long distance in a truck
while that is pretty normal here.
Long ago the european cars abandoned spring leaf for more comfortable
suspension types for one thing, also the tax laws do not make the
dressed-up ranchers equipment so appealing to city boys.
In addition to the mileage the distances are often smaller as I can see
from my own odometer: was 15k KM and is now close to 15k miles per year.
All in all, you do not pay much more money per trip in Europe due to
these two effects.
As an example:
I used to have an Opel Vectra (German made GM brand) which was from
1990 and had a 1.8i engine. The average mileage was 15 km/l which
works out to be almost 36 MPG. This for an old, non-hybrid, regular
gasoline, 5-seater, 120 MPH car.
Now try to find a Ford or GMC or other american car that seats 5 and
has this average fuel usage.
Interestingly, this car was the favorite transport for Dutch farmers,
how's that for a comparison?
To get back on topic:
In the past there have been several attempts of companies selling EV,
personally I have been tempted to buy a new converted VW, but having
just one car in the family (due to the tax and insurance cost is
more the norm there than in the US) and the limited range made it
impossible to make my regular trips to see the family with that EV.
Commuting was no problem - I always used the bicycle.
My impression is that there is no large-scale effort in the EU to
promote EVs. If that were the case, things could happen very fast
over there due to the higher density and smaller distances, so it
makes a good long range EV a good proposition, especially when
coupled to fast-charge points at rest stops (Mc Donalds?).
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 1:06 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Critical Mass
On 9/8/05, Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Then in the UK where they pay $7 per gallon or Europe at $6 per gallon why
> isn't EVeryone buying EV's? I don't understand is electricity also to the
> moon?
> Mark
Shrug. 1 GBP per litre is still too cheap, apparently!
EVs are selling well in London where they're exempt from the (5 GBP
per day?) congestion charge.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
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I wonder how hard it would be to adapt a 911 or even a VW type 1 transaxle
to the 924 chassis. The only real challenge would be the inner CV joints and
with a little luck those may either fit perfectly or require minor fiddling.
With the above mentioned transaxles the adaptor bits are readily available.
The electric motor would be mounted in the back of the car eliminating the
weight of the forward bellhousing, driveshaft, etc.
If the VW tranny would work it would save a lot of money vs the 911 trans
and would probably have a more usable 4th gear.
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Don Cameron wrote:
The gentlemen at Electro Mavin said Metric Mind has a shaft
converter for these motors (news to me, but I am not sure what Victor is up
to). He does not have controllers, nor know what controllers will work with
the motors.
Don,
That gent deserves treatment by 2x4 :-)
I never had and don't plan to have adapters for twisted
gear shafts of Ford's 5133WS20. The end of the shaft
is a helical gear, similar to the one used in differentials.
I do have adapters for straight splines as 5133WS18 motors have,
and it is featured on the site for nearly 2 years now.
I have no idea how one would make an adapter to a gear (not spline).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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