EV Digest 4682
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: AGM battery mgmt system
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Brainstorm on Tango style design.
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: NEDRA race location change?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 924 EV
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: IOTA
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: more, cheap, good aero mods for new, old Beetles, Re: Modified that
Beetle
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: more, cheap, good aero mods for new, old Beetles, Re: Modified that
Beetle
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) DLS - 55 $95
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) EV Drag Racer Q's
by "Ray Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Brainstorm on Tango style design.
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
by Travis Raybold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Wanted: ElectraVan Wheels
by "Michael A. Radtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Why not? Onboard "smart" boat chargers?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: AGM battery mgmt system
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I don't feel the need for speed but I like reading about the exploits of
people I admire. After seeing what John has done and how he has done it I
feel I can make a better EV. The statement "We break things so you don't
have to" is really true. I've gotten many ideas from seeing and reading
about what John has done. (so I do or don't do as I have been warned) I may
not go fast but I have asperations of making an EV that will keep up with
traffic & the knowledge gained is invaluable. Lawrence Rhodes.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nope they just recycle them.
Clearly Sealed AGMs can't be cleaned out.... just recycled.
The point of AGMs is sealed, and clean and very high power to weight
compared to Floodeds.
So we get good snort, and nver have to water them, But we have to have good
chargers and Regs... a expensive draw back.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: AGM battery mgmt system
> Excuse a newbie battery question but what actually happens to a Pb battery
> when it is of no further use. Is it silted up ??. I remember reading about
U
> boat batteries that they used to open up and clear the crap out of to stop
> the plates shorting out - can modern flooded hi discharge batts be washed
> out and refilled with acid ?
>
> N.B I realise with gel or other sealed types it would be tricky :-))
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:24 PM
> Subject: Re: AGM battery mgmt system
>
>
> > I have a problem with this statment.
> >
> > Since I AM the guy who invented Rudman Regs and have them on all my
> > personal EVs.
> >
> > This just is not true.
> >
> > Rudman Regs and a good charger will get you the rated life cycles of
your
> > AGMs. Been there done it got 5x the rated life out of my old Yellow
tops.
> >
> > Rudman Regs and a PFC charger better get you darn good range and life...
> or
> > you simply never tuned the system correctly.
> >
> > What else may I ask is needed to keep AGMs alive??? Beside a voltage
> > regualted charger and Peak voltage limiting battery regulators????
> >
> > What don't I know?
> > Educate me....
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: AGM battery mgmt system
> >
> >
> > > James Massey wrote:
> > > "Apart from that, the choices pretty much come down to
> > > DIY solutions. I am using some cheap programmable logic
> > > controllers to integrate the signals from the Rudman
> > > regs, and control a dumb-as-a-brick transformer charger in
> > > a manner that the AGMs and regulators should be happy with."
> > >
> > > James, are you saying that battery management systems, like
> > > the Rudman regulators are insufficient alone to work with
> > > AGMs?
> > >
> > > I wonder what others' experiences have been with BMS? Has
> > > anyone tried PowerCheq?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
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> > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/93 - Release Date:
08/09/2005
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sep 9, 2005, at 8:47 AM, Andrew Letton wrote:
I've seen this done with an ICE VW Bug. One of the more difficult
parts is dealing with the front and rear glass. On an old Bug, the
glass was not curved, so any good auto glass shop could make new front
and rear windows.
You are talking about some REAL old Beetles. The rear glass was curved
starting in 1953. I wouldn't dare hack a split window Beetle. The
windshield was flat until 1965 (US import models.)
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:17:02 -0400, Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>02-.
>
>As a newbie hoping to find and share information on building,
>maintaining and living with an EV as my main form of transportation, I
>also admit to having little interest in electric (or gas) drag racing.
Pretty much the same here. I'm a hard core racer and fan but I have
to admit that whenever something comes to the line that can't run 9
seconds or under, that's the time for me to go to the concession stand
or to my RV for a nap. Booooorrrrriiiinnnngggg. The only exception
is if I know someone who is racing.
Ignoring my interest in EVs for a moment, I suspect that the main
interest in John's car for many people is the same as that in rocket
powered go-karts and the like - an interesting sideshow and diversion
from the regular program.
I mean, let's get real here. While a mighty achievement for an EV, a
street car that runs 100 mph in the quarter is, well, passe'. My
slightly modified Caprice 9C1 runs better than that. When
barely-streetable EVs get down in the 9 second range like the Pro
Streeters, then there will be some bragging rights.
I can't imagine someone watching the Zombie and saying "Gee, I want to
go out and buy a car that can do 0-60 in 15 seconds and only go 60
miles on a charge." The old "race on Sunday, sell on Monday" only
works when there is something reasonably similar to the track car
available for sale.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom, I find your following statement to be totally ludicrous: "Let's admit
that electric drag racing excites hardly anyone except the participants." It
is one thing to have your own opinions but quite another to state that your
opinions are shared by everyone. In the recent article titled: Clean Race in
Spirit magazine put out by Southwest Airlines they state: "Most of us won't
drive electric cars until they are offered by GM and Toyota. But we should
take notice of the EV (electric vehicle) drag community right now. Like
military technology that later emerges in the consumer sector, "ampheads"
are currently pushing electric vehicle development. These guys are not
waiting for Detroit." If it weren't for racing advancing technology we would
not now have common things like disc brakes, seat belts and fuel injection,
etc. This article was read by many thousands of people. An earlier magazine
article in the Navigator distributed at Holiday Inn Express motels had a
front cover article on EV drag racing with glowing reviews. We have been
contacted by Carl Olson the President of the FIA (Federation Internationale
de l'Automobile) Drag Racing Commission. In a letter to NEDRA he stated: "I
conducted a survey to determine where, in the world, electric vehicle drag
racing activities are currently taking place. ......"Clearly, NEDRA is at
the absolute forefront of this movement." He proposed that the FIA would pay
to ship some of our top EV drag race cars to Europe to do exhibition racing.
NEDRA is known throughout the planet and for a tiny organization we make one
heck of an impact. Hearing gas spectators talk after watching John Wayland's
ass kicking run against the Vette last Friday indicated they had definitely
been impressed. They will never think of EVs as you chose to say: "And the
electric cars are slugs compared to ICE drag racers." By the way Tom, EV
dragsters that can break 300 mph in the quarter are possible right now with
current battery technology. You just need to crunch the numbers $$$$$$.
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA President
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: NEDRA race location change?
It's a shame that more people don't attend NEDRA races at Woodburn. A
better venue would help but the basic problem is that not very many people
are interested in racing of battery electric vehicles. Only a small
minority of
the people is interested in electric vehicles and only a minority of that
minority
is excited about drag racing.
Let's admit that electric drag racing excites hardly anyone except the
participants. The lack of noise is a disappointment; most of the
excitement of a
drag race is induced by the noise. And the electric cars are slugs
compared to
ICE drag racers. While few electric dragsters can exceed 100 mph, the
faster
ICE racers can exceed 300 mph.
If we want to convince people to drive electric cars, we need to find a
better
way than drag racing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:28 AM
Subject: NEDRA race location change?
This year's poor spectator and participant turnout numbers at Woodburn
caused some significant discussion on the topic of how to grow this sport
amongst a number of people in attendance.
I understand the desire to choose a geographic location that is
accessible to a large number of users, but I don't believe Woodburn is
the best choice for a NEDRA event, ESPECIALLY the nationals. Woodburn is
literally in the middle of nowhere and honestly, I could see no impact
nor interest in the EV racing from the Jr dragster crowd. I don't think
we are changing any perspectives or planting any seeds there.
The Wayland Invitational made this painfully obvious. There were FAR more
spectators and FAR more serious racing participants. Additionally, the
electrics were having FAR more impact on both spectators and racers
alike. A number of people were comparing the electrics favorably with
full blown race rigs and many seeds are planted every time Plasma Boy
makes a good showing at the evening drags.
Add the fact that the track is located in a major population center and
you actually have some ability to promote a national championship event
locally to improve the turnout (at least among the spectators).
I think that if the NEDRA leadership is serious about growing this sport,
they need to locate the nationals in a population center, and time it to
cooincide with another significant racing event so that the electrics can
have the maximum impact possible. The Portland track would make an
excellent choice and they are even serviced by an electric train so that
people can attend without burning gas to get there.
In my opinion, Woodburn just isn't cutting it. Even with Wired coverage
of the event before hand, we had the lowest turnout ever during a year
with unprecidented interest in electrics. I believe it is time for a
change.
Do you want to maintain the status quo of dwindling participation, or do
you want to make some changes to insure a future for this sport?
I'm sure I am not the first person to make these suggestions.
Something to think about....
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Umm, the 944 is EXACTLY the same layout as the 924. The only difference
is the fenders and 'some' of the engine options.
Sort of. There were two models of 924. One had very Audi like
suspension, steering, and stuff (transmission IIRC) and the later models
basically had the Porsche type suspension, steering, struts as on the
early model 944's.
In 1985.5 they changed the 944 design rather significantly.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So this isnt a good idea to use a dc to dc converter.....New to EV's i
get confused.....I have yet to buy a converter and trying to find a
decent one for my 156vlt S10 conversion... Any suggestions..
Cwarman
Lee Hart wrote:
Cwarman wrote:
So has anyone mentioned that these IOTA DLS-55AMP Power Converters would not
work well in a EV and if there would be any special considerations on using one
of these as opposed to a Zivan NG1 or any other type of DC/DC converter that
everyone else is using.
Just remember that these are *NOT* DC/DC converters; they are AC to DC
power supplies that just happen to work with a DC input.
A "proper" DC/DC converter:
- specifies an input DC voltage range
- is protected from under- and over-voltage on its input
(at the very least with a DC-rated fuse)
- has an output specifically designed to charge a battery
(i.e. it is characterized for battery charging)
- does not shut down if the output battery is deeply discharged
(i.e. it supplies a constant output current if it can't
reach its constant output voltage setpoint)
- is temperature compensated so it won't overcharge a hot battery,
or undercharge a cold one
- is built to survive in an outdoor automotive environment
(shock and vibration, temperature extremes, water, dirt, bugs)
--
Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Awesome!
So with all of these mods where does one add the leading edge extensions to
prevent a flat spin from occuring :)
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: "jerry dycus"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 9/9/05 9:54:30 AM
To: "[email protected]"<[email protected]>
Subject: more, cheap, good aero mods for new, old Beetles, Re: Modified that
Beetle
Hi John, Noel and All,
John Luck Home <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Not sure the guy who has made the mod fully understands aerodynamics. The
He may not but he is ahead of your knowledge. What he has done
is an excellent way to make a rather bad aero car into a fairly aero car. Aero
is not really as it seems until you have done a lot of it, then it makes sense
but most cars that look aero, aren't.
purpose of winglets on Aircraft is to reduce vortices where the high and
low pressure on either side of the wings tries to equalise by moving air
Lets see, he has a short wing. He has 2 larger wingtips. He would
have large vortexes if he didn't have the tips to keep the fast air on top from
generating vortexes going around his wingtips to the slower air below. So since
they do stop large vortexes and large vortexes are air drag, it works well.
And the wing in the first place stops the vortexes that if the air was
allowed to continue downward along the trunk would come out into larger
vortexes so his wing does help a lot. I'm not sure it will drop his CD down to
.28, but diffinately worthwhile.
Now if he or Don would add little 1/2" spoilers to the fender next to
the wing so the air seperates there instead of being draged down into vortexes,
would decrease the drag another 5-10%.
With both of these I'd bet high speed range would increase at least
20%, maybe 25%. Add rear wheel skirts, front, side air dams for another 5-10%
drag reduction.
Another % or 2 could be from on the front fender from the windshield
post line outward and then down the aft part of the fender about 3-4" behind
the wheelwell a vortex generator or 1/4" high spoiler should be mounted to
trigger a small vortex in order to keep a larger one from forming.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
around the wing tip. These winglets (as fitted to Virgin 747 etc) do this
job very well - but in a car !!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel P. Luneau"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:43 PM
Subject: Modified that Beetle
> Hey Don,
>
> Did you see the refinement that this chap made to his Beetle to lower
> the Coefficient of Drag (Cd) from .38 to .28 (estimated I assume).
>
> http://www.max-mpg.com/html/tech/main.htm
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Don Cameron
> Jerry, good point. A lighter vehicle and or more aero vehicle is a
> great way to improve range. If there is one lesson I have learned with
> the New Beetle is that it is **not** a small or lightweight car.
> Nowhere similar to its predecessor.
>
> Don
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> He may not but he is ahead of your knowledge.
Not sure I would agree with that but whatever..........
I agree he has improved the aerodynamic shape of the vehicle with the
wing - the rest is just for show and maybe to strengthen the otherwise
flimsy wing - the winglets offer more drag than he is gaining in stopping
the spanwise flow around the wing, after all its the whole shape car and his
trunk mounted wing that forms the aerodynamic shape . It would be a bit like
Boeing only having the winglet on the ailerons outer edge an not the whole
width of the wing.
Looks nice tho - is he a boy racer I wonder !!
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:46 PM
Subject: more, cheap, good aero mods for new, old Beetles, Re: Modified that
Beetle
> Hi John, Noel and All,
>
> John Luck Home <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not sure the guy who has made the mod fully understands aerodynamics. The
>
>
> He may not but he is ahead of your knowledge. What he has
done is an excellent way to make a rather bad aero car into a fairly aero
car. Aero is not really as it seems until you have done a lot of it, then it
makes sense but most cars that look aero, aren't.
>
>
>
> purpose of winglets on Aircraft is to reduce vortices where the high and
> low pressure on either side of the wings tries to equalise by moving air
>
>
> Lets see, he has a short wing. He has 2 larger wingtips. He
would have large vortexes if he didn't have the tips to keep the fast air on
top from generating vortexes going around his wingtips to the slower air
below. So since they do stop large vortexes and large vortexes are air drag,
it works well.
>
> And the wing in the first place stops the vortexes that if the
air was allowed to continue downward along the trunk would come out into
larger vortexes so his wing does help a lot. I'm not sure it will drop his
CD down to .28, but diffinately worthwhile.
>
> Now if he or Don would add little 1/2" spoilers to the fender next
to the wing so the air seperates there instead of being draged down into
vortexes, would decrease the drag another 5-10%.
>
> With both of these I'd bet high speed range would increase at
least 20%, maybe 25%. Add rear wheel skirts, front, side air dams for
another 5-10% drag reduction.
>
> Another % or 2 could be from on the front fender from the
windshield post line outward and then down the aft part of the fender about
3-4" behind the wheelwell a vortex generator or 1/4" high spoiler should be
mounted to trigger a small vortex in order to keep a larger one from
forming.
>
> HTH's,
>
> Jerry Dycus
>
> around the wing tip. These winglets (as fitted to Virgin 747 etc) do this
> job very well - but in a car !!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Noel P. Luneau"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:43 PM
> Subject: Modified that Beetle
>
>
> > Hey Don,
> >
> > Did you see the refinement that this chap made to his Beetle to lower
> > the Coefficient of Drag (Cd) from .38 to .28 (estimated I assume).
> >
> > http://www.max-mpg.com/html/tech/main.htm
> >
> > Noel
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Don Cameron
>
> > Jerry, good point. A lighter vehicle and or more aero vehicle is a
> > great way to improve range. If there is one lesson I have learned with
> > the New Beetle is that it is **not** a small or lightweight car.
> > Nowhere similar to its predecessor.
> >
> > Don
> > See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/93 - Release Date: 08/09/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4574250897&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_ReBay_Pr3_PcY_BID_IT
I just got The
New IOTA DLS-55 Power Converter ( RV MARINE HAM CB )
for 95 dollars with mine being the only bid. The one above has three days
left on it.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As a couterpoint which I hope we haven't scared Jim away from making, I
think it's possible we may have misinterpreted his message somewhat. A lot
of posts recently, including some from me, have been the sort of "wow I
had a great time" posts that are familiar to list members around the time
of Woodburn, Power of DC, Wicked Watts, etc. These posts contain in large
part human-interest tales of adventure and "great to see everyone" and
"look at these movies I made" and some contain very little technical
content -- I specifically implicate my own posts here.
While I am not ashamed at all of posting this kind of stuff (I really did
have a good time as always, and wish more folks could have joined in to
see what top-notch EVs can really do), if Jim is not so interested in this
kind of list traffic, then I say that's totally fair. On the other hand, I
agree that he's doing himself a disservice to overlook with prejudice
anything that mentions racing; as many have pointed out that's where
development is really happening and where important lessons are being
learned. It's true of ICE vehicles, and I think so very true for EVs.
--chris
proud Woodburn T-shirt wearer,
EV racing enthusiast,
Z2K/Warp13-powered future NEDRA hopeful
John Wayland said:
> Hello to All, but especially Jim,
>
> Meta Bus wrote:
>
>> As a newbie hoping to find and share information on building,
>> maintaining and living with an EV as my main form of transportation, I
>> also admit to having little interest in electric (or gas) drag racing.
>>
>> I find myself skipping past the NEDRA/Woodburn posts, searching for
>> practical advice on batteries, motors, and the real-world experiences
>> of EV-people in a petro-world.
>
> Jim, ever hear the expression 'Can't see the forest for all the trees'?
> How about his one...'Racing improves the breed.'? Your comments are
> interesting, to say the least. The very posts you admit to bypassing are
> written by the guys who probably know more about EVs than most here on
> this EVDL. They are the ones that design and build the chargers,
> controllers, etc. that people like you, will most likely be using in
> your EV.
>
> Rich Rudman, an electric drag racer and writer of these posts you skip
> by, makes the battery regulators and PFC chargers that have helped shape
> most of the conversions you're interested in. If it weren't for electric
> drag racing, there would be no PFC chargers....Rich learned from the
> stresses of needing to efficiently and quickly charge hungry drag EVs at
> the track, that the EV community needed an affordable, quality, high
> powered charger. We were flipping our generators' breakers and blowing
> line breakers, too, at the track, when a light went off in Rich's head
> about charger inefficiency.
>
> Rod Wilde, a drag racer who holds impressive records, is president of
> NEDRA, and is the operator of EV Parts where may go to get EV conversion
> hardware, is another who you are skipping by...he's been involved in too
> many EV conversions to list. His racing reports and the successes and
> failures of components at the track, are items you are missing out on.
>
> Otmar Ebenhoech, owner of Cafe Electric and designer-builder of arguably
> the finest DC motor controller one can buy, is also an electric drag
> racer and proves his designs first, at the drag track...you've bypassed
> him, too. If it weren't for electric drag racing, there probably would
> be no Zilla line of controllers. The first Otmar higher powered
> controller found its way into Rod Wilde's RX7 racer back in '94. The
> first ever Godzilla was under the hood of White Zombie in '97, and was
> even named by yours truly after its monstrous performance.
>
> Jim Husted of Hi Torque Electric, a new guy here himself, is turning out
> to be 'the guy' when it comes to the electric motors we all use in our
> EVs....you're bypassing valuable information he's been writing about
> drag racing, too. Wanting to know more about his craft, Jim has wisely
> hooked up with the electric drag racers. The lessons learned from the
> stresses on electric motors in electric drag racing go directly into
> improving street reliability for a conversion, and Jim has already put
> some of what he's learned into motors intended for street
> conversion...the very stuff 'you' should be very interested in. Of
> course, since you've bene skipping the racing posts, you probably have
> already missed all the important info about the motor problem we had and
> how it's already been diagnosed and repaired.
>
> The newest generation of EVers like the Austin EV group of Mark, Chris,
> and Shawn, guys who are the geek experts and know the high tech stuff
> you should be concerned about when it comes to the data stream of info
> that now runs through most of the latest EV hardwre being made and
> offered for conversions, were all at the recent electric drags investing
> their time and extensive knowledge....yeah, you missed all their
> write-ups, too. You probably missed their links included in their
> 'racing posts' that lead you to valuable graphs and stats.
>
> I've put together more than 100 EVs, and have contributed to the EVDL
> now for 11 years. I have helped in the behind the scenes design and
> development of many of the EV products you'll be looking into. It's a
> safe bet to say that most of the batteries EVers now use in their
> conversions, were tested and improved at the drag track. I was one of
> the very first to use Optimas, but tested them at the drag track...now
> they're a common everyday conversion battery of choice. Ever hear about
> Exide Orbitals? Funny, it was Rudman and my extreme power tests on these
> batteries and they're successful use in 'electric drag racing' that
> brought them to the foreground for conversion use.
>
> All the above electric drag racers (with exception to Jim Husted -
> currently preparing his first EV...read his latest post) also drive EVs
> off the track, too. All the above had built these EVs themselves and
> have helped countless others do the same. Many of the above have been
> involved and helped put on EV shows, been in video productions, and have
> been in magazine write-ups.
>
> Jim, I have to say that reading your post really lit me up. You've got
> the movers and shakers of the EV world freely sharing valuable lessons
> of how all the things you should be interested in work, hold up, get
> improved, and get to the market place for guys like you.....and you then
> say that you skip past their posts in your search for practical advice
> on batteries, motors, and the real-world experiences of EV-people?
>
> See Ya...John Wayland
>
>
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Are these cars run single speed direct drive or do they have a clutch and
get shifted going down the track ?
thanks
Ray
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OK, I'll be honest; I don't remember what the rear window on this Bug
was like. (It's probably been 15 years since I've seen it.) I don't
think it was pre-'53, so it musta' been curved. Or maybe the guy
reworked the sheetmetal to allow installation of a small flat window.
If I remember correctly, only the bodywork was narrowed; the wheels were
still wide, making it sort of an open-wheel car. Side view looked like
a normal Bug if you didn't look too closely, but once you got off angle
a bit, you started saying WOW!
cheers,
Andrew
Paul G. wrote:
On Sep 9, 2005, at 8:47 AM, Andrew Letton wrote:
I've seen this done with an ICE VW Bug. One of the more difficult
parts is dealing with the front and rear glass. On an old Bug, the
glass was not curved, so any good auto glass shop could make new
front and rear windows.
You are talking about some REAL old Beetles. The rear glass was curved
starting in 1953. I wouldn't dare hack a split window Beetle. The
windshield was flat until 1965 (US import models.)
Paul
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NEDRA.com EVents are very valuable for not only their fans,
but for all us EVangels out there promoting EVs.
I use their images and data (speed and times) all the time to
inform the 'totally clueless' of what an EV can do.
Their activities overcome the well established thought of what
US automakers think EVs are: golf carts.
I always have to dispel the uninformed that EVs are not golf
carts, and that I really do drive my S-10 Blazer at high speeds
on the highway.
Then their typical dis-belief that EVs only have golf cart
performance is destroyed when I inform them what the NEDRA.com
teams are doing.
The look, speeds, and record times of NEDRA vehicles supercharges
their interest in EVs: "... Wow! that is a cool car, ...
That's a pretty good time ..., 104! woah"
After I am done giving them my talk, they have some hard thinking
to do: that all of what they were told EVs were was wrong, and
that EVs are not your parent's golf-cart.
Right on NEDRA, and please don't poo-poo anyone out enjoying
their EV with an EV grin :-)
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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NASA funding is often justified on the grounds that the advances made
eventually trickle down from the bleeding edge, improving the lives of
ordinary people. Several veteran members of this list have made a
similar point.
It is a valid point.
I am all for those who push the envelope of the sciences. And I concede
that drag racers are pushing the envelope, advancing the science, and
applications of what they learn are eventually distributed to the rest
of us.
I _did_ read the first half dozen posts on racing, the subsequent
discussion of video formats, the debates over limited participation, the
curiosity of the gasoline crowds. But I despaired of the familiar focus.
I am dismayed by the "need for speed", which is a power lust that I see
everywhere-- in the monster SUVs sporting Live Green bumper stickers
(mentioned here on this list), in the lack of consumer acceptance of
NEVs and EVs in general (bemoaned on this list), and in the sudden and
permanent (I expect) rise in gasoline prices (greeted on this list with
an understandable mixture of fear, contempt, and pride).
I know the list rules prohibit (or discourage) political discourse, and
I know there is a wide variety of opinions of an ideal public policy for
EVs, so I will constrain my perspective to this one practical problem--
I own an EV with a top speed of around 40 MPH. I'd like to be able to
travel all of my nation's roads. Should I expend my efforts in making my
EV capable of going faster, or should I wait until everybody else is
willing to slow down?
Regards,
Jim Davis
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When it comes to off the shelf parts I don't think anyone know more than
Roland. He informs and amazes everytime he posts. LR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
You will find that some equipment that is used in race cars that are built
to heavy-duty, super-reinforced, industrial grade specifications, are used
in EV's that are need to with stand the increase weight and start up
thrust and increases the performance of the EV.
I ran my 1975 Chevelle EV from 1975 to 1980 with standard stock equipment,
which all had to replace.
The axil bearings were worn out.
The pinion and ring gear has increase wear, which cause more back lass.
All suspension parts which includes upper and lower ball joints, strut
bushings, and all bushings in the front and rear had to be replace.
Brake pads where replace twice.
Wheel studs broken off and replaced.
Shocks were replace twice.
So in 1985 I started to used all racing components in my EV. I'am still
going today without any replacements.
Many of the items I used is from:
JEG'S - High Performance Mail Order or jegs.com
I used there electric water pump and control system which protects the
electrical system by preventing excessive amperage draw for my hot water
heating system.
They have Cool Cans system for cooling liquids which can be used for a
water cool motor controller.
I am using there Vacuum Pumps that achieve vacuum sooner and Vacuum tanks
with check valves, that allow several braking while it is off. There is no
POP POP sounds.
Transmission or oil coolers with electric fans for cooling a motor
controller with water cooling.
Ring and Pinion sets that will take a higher thrust that ranges from
3.42:1 to 6.33:1 gear ratios.
High performance Brake Rotors and Brake Pads.
Metallic Performance clutch, flywheel and high pressure pressure plates,
that you will need if you coming from a dead stop. (These are still like
brand new after 15 years)
A transmission adapter that is bolted to my transmission directly to the
GE motor which is design to fit any bell housing.
Torque Converters that is normally used on automatic transmission, but can
be used on manual transmission when you stack up several together. I not
using this, but in my next mod, I thinking about it.
If you stack up 5 Torque Converters with a ratio of 1.8:1, you have a
variable ratio transmission of 1.8 x 1.8 x 1.8 x 1.8 x 1.8 = 18.89:1 down
to 1:1. You only used final gear and reversed in your transmission. This
is how some of these cars go over 300 mph in a quarter mile.
Many industrial machines used this method of transmission.
I replace my axils, spindles, bearings with Mark Williams Chassic and
Driveline Components. www.markwilliams.com<http://www.markwilliams.com/>
My GM type bearings and axils worn completely out in less than 5 years,
replace once with standard and worn out again.
These Mark William axils are twice the diameter and have 3 inch roller
bearings with outer and inner races. They with stand a dead weight of
22,000 lbs and a thrust of 4000 lbs.
All my Suspension units, including all steel A-arms and thrust arms with
all bearings and bushings made with polygraphite are from:
PST Performance Suspension Technology-
www.p-s-t.com<http://www.p-s-t.com/>
My shock and springs units are from Air Ride Technologies -
www.ridetech.com<http://www.ridetech.com/>
These are a air system, where you do not used coil springs or standard
shocks. You can adjust them for a maximum and minimum jog and can adjust
any height with air between theses heights.
With the increase weight in a EV, you either will have to have stiffer
springs giving a stiff ride. With the Air-Springs, I can adjust my EV 4
inches lower or 4 inches higher, which levels it out and can make it ride
like a baby buggy.
One thing I could do with my EV which is now a 1977 El Camino, is to
lighten it. They make carbon fiber panels for this entire car and with a
chrome moly frame, which a company up the road makes, has lighten this
type of car from 4500 lbs down to 1800 lbs, which is with a engine and
driver which goes about 300 mph in a quarter mile:
So you see, Racing Technoiogies, Design, and components can be used to
greatly improved you EV.
Roland
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When I first started using an EV I had little to no interest in the
racing posts. I considered switching my EV to flooded batteries for a
cheaper, though slower car (I think Wayland almost had a conniption when
I mentioned this, but he controlled himself well). After driving it for
a while though, I started liking the bit of spunk it has, and started
dreaming of a bit more. Now I find myself scanning for Wayland and
Rudman's posts to hear about their exploits, have Rudmans regs and
charger installed in my car, and am definitely dreaming of a Zilla and a
rewire from 10 buddy pairs to a single string 240V system to pep up my
little Fiat Spyder. If only I had the time and skills to do the work!
The limits these guys push (or go past in Wayland's case!) make it that
much easier for the rest of us to have a street EV with reasonable
performance (or a bit more). So my hat is off to you guys... both for
the EV advances and the entertaining stories :)
--Travis
Rich Rudman wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Meta Bus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
.02-
As a newbie hoping to find and share information on building,
maintaining and living with an EV as my main form of transportation, I
also admit to having little interest in electric (or gas) drag racing.
I find myself skipping past the NEDRA/Woodburn posts, searching for
practical advice on batteries, motors, and the real-world experiences of
EV-people in a petro-world.
Regards,
Jim Davis
Whoa!!
Us hot rod Evers ARE the ones kicking and shaping the EV world
into line.
Ever think we might actually run our EVs on the street???? HUmmm?
I for one installed a pack of Orbitals in my Street EV Goldie, just
yesterday, I also installed the Rudman Regulators... and wired it all up.
This is a rather practical EV experience. Just remember Us Races do in a
afternoon what a lot or EVers take years to do. WE are ones with the
hands on practical experience.
I am looking forward to 20 mile range AND tire smoke on command.
Hey race season is basicly over... I want my 2 cents a mile back....I
NEED it!.
Also since I am the Name behind Madman's 100 club... Ths point OF the
Madman's 100...... IS FAST STREET EVs.
So as a newbie, you have just slapped the face of those folks who would
like to help you and have a very good track record of doing just that.
Please think about what you are saying.... before you jump off the
deep end...
Rich Rudman
Madman
Manzanita Micro
.
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Hello,
One of my ElectraVan wheels broke. The metal fatigued around a bolt
hole.
I have determined that Subaru 360 van wheels will not work, they are
thinner metal and 1/2 inch narrower.
If you have a couple of spares to sell or have some leads on who does,
please let me know.
Thanks,
Mike Phoenix AZ
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Mark Ward wrote:
> I was looking through my latest Basspro catalog (one of our
> local MO companies) and ran across some really NEAT multibank
> boat chargers that are microprocessor controlled...
> So here is the question. Why not use several of the 3 or 4 bank
> chargers?
You have to look closely, and TEST. Many multi-battery chargers are
really just a single 12v charger with several sets of outputs. The
negatives of all of them are tied together, and it just routes the one
12v charger to the batteries 1 or more at a time. Such a charger can't
charge batteries wired in series.
Also, marketing claims are unreliable; don't believe a charger is truly
for deep cycle batteries unless you verify its charging algorithm for
yourself (or have test data from some source that is independent from
the manufacturer's data/exaggerations/lies).
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Gabriel Alarcon wrote:
> Does anybody know when a BMS is required for AGM's?
It's not "required" per se. If you use AGMs without any kind of BMS, you
have to overcharge to balance them. The cumulative effect of
overcharging shortens their life. So the consequence of no BMS is short
battery life.
In contrast, if you use lithium batteries without a BMS, they can burn
or explode! So with them, a BMS that works right down to the individual
cell level is mandatory!
> What BMS are commercially available out there?
The commercially available BMS's are "reserved" for the large auto
companies; i.e. they aren't sold to individuals. The market isn't large
enough for any company to produce them profitably. Thus, all the BMS in
hobby EVs are either home-made, or adapted from systems designed for
some other use.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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