EV Digest 4702
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 300 MPH Quarter EV Technology-Wiring For
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Rich, Goldie, and motor mods
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Zilla Cooling
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: What charger to use?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: What charger to use?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Solectria Charger Question
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) More wiring questions
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Freeway
by "Larry Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: More wiring questions
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: DMV purgatory
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Solectria Charger Question
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: What charger to use?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: What charger to use?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Freeway
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Solectria Charger Question
by "EVdave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
by Victor Reppeto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Sam electric three-wheeler
by "Larry Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Lazy Boy E-Chair Races...More Detail
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
by Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Solectria Charger Question
by "EVdave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: What charger to use?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Solectria Charger Question
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: More wiring questions
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Dave Cloud's Geo Stratus @ Woodburn 2005
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
It's a linear induction motor.... operates just like a industrial AC
motor... but laid out flat....
I am not sure NHRA will let us have a Nuclear powered intrack motor... That
might violate a few rules...
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: 300 MPH Quarter EV Technology-Wiring For
> New Aircraft Carriers are planning to have electric catapults.
> http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2001/Jul/Navy_to_Phase.htm
>
> Does anyone know the weight and launch velocity of a Joint Strike Fighter
as
> it exits an aircraft carrier after only 300 feet of acceleration?
>
> The article says they were trying to get to 200 kts in 300 feet.
>
> Just think what it could do with 1320 feet.
>
> WOW.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 9:43 PM
> Subject: Re: 300 MPH Quarter EV Technology-Wiring For
>
>
> > Or wind a big inductor under the track.
> >
> > Maglev, anyone?
> >
> > -Tim
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "ROBERT RICE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 12:33 AM
> > Subject: Re: 300 MPH Quarter EV Technology-Wiring For
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:27:17 -0700, Lightning Ryan
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Neon John wrote:
> > > >> given a megabuck, oh heck, let's make it unlimited funds, tell me
in
> > > >> general terms how you'd achieve 300 mph in the quarter with an EV.
> > > >
> > >
> > > WHO SEZ THAT YOU CAN'T WIRE THE TRACK WITH CATENERY??NHRA, NEDRA?
> > >
> > > If yur spending all those bux, just go to the grid or leave the
> > monster battery pack at the end of the track.Only a quarter mile do ya
> need,
> > you run outta wire at the end, no shutdown problem, anyhow. Works for
> > Seattle an' transit Vancouver and Amtrak, and EVen the PDX Max<g>!
> > >
> > > Seeya
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date:
9/10/05
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Funny... secret... and on the EV list... not a chance..
Goldie WAS a terror in about '98 when I installed the first Raptor in her,
and Went to Woodburn 1. She is still one of the fastest EVs in Nedra.
But. Upgrades are coming...and sometime I will have to have here turned into
Rebar. She is old and rusting away.
But Now with new batteries, and some motor help... I am looking to get a
couple more years out of her.
Clues
Don't need more motor... Way too much tire spin, Need a motor that
pulls, all the way to 6500 rpm.
GOT the Zilla, But right now even the Old Raptor is more than the
chassis can use.
13s in Goldie...That's 1000s of bucks of front end suspension mods and
designs... Do I really want to put that kind of money on a throw a way
chassis??
Jim's got plenty of motors, So do I . None have what is needed. Jim is
implimenting my first idea. Many more to come.
Madman
Well not really it just sounds good today.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: Rich, Goldie, and motor mods
> I in fact, am shipping him a mod'ed item of his design out monday. I'm
sure that when he has completed his (I have ways of making you talk) testing
and is satisfied, will post a report. Untill then it's shhh, shhhhh so
don't tell him I said anything. Oh and by the way, I'll be seeking his
advise, as well as the other main members here as to how best get all the
juice out of these motors we can.
> Just couldnt stand to let you worry about Goldie, and or Rich. Okay so we
all worry about Rich, but, hopefully this helps ; P
> Just a little secret FYI, oh damn did that go to the list?
> Hey Rich let me know when you get it
> CYA
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
> Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > I suspect that I could be over 80 mph and in the 16s RIGHT now....In 10
more >cycles I expect a 15 mile range, and tire smoke at will.
>
> Get it into the 13's and it would dust nearly any street car.. What
> would it take? A bigger motor? A Zilla?
>
> Doesn't Jim have any motors?
>
> Put something stout in it and make that thing a terror! ;)
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am using a PONDMASTER 70 700 GPH pump for the 75K water cooled charger, I
have had VERY good results on the PFC40L project. It 120 VAC, and almost
silent.
It's big claim is years of "In the Pond" service. It made 4 liters a minute
on the Zilla and about 4.8 liters a minute on my PFC40L. Clearly showing
that My heat sink can flow more than Otmars....under the exact same test.
Ninner NInner Niner! But this came as a rather big surprise..
The Pump makes about 10 Psi, and can move a LOT of water should you have
large plumbing.
The pump is a water fountain pump. It list about $107 Bucks, it's supposed
to last 10 years at the bottom of a garden water feature.\
Mine is on the 75k Dual water cooled heatsinks... So, any other questions???
I can test or find out?
This is not really small, or super High tech, but looks like it will last
decades.
The 12 volt pump on Gp is VERY noisey, and moves aLOT of water, about 3
times what the Pmaster700 does... Good but I doubt it will last.
The old Racing vs years of street use comes into play here....
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla Cooling
> Hi Lawrence and Everyone,
>
> Lawrence wrote:
>
> > I was putting away my Aspire parts and I had some washer fluid left in
> > my spare washer res. with pump. I tried poring it into the one in the
> > Aspire and it didn't work well. Bright idea. I hooked 12v to it and
> > it came out like a gusher. I was using a variable power supply and
> > seems like 5v would be good for Zilla and other cooling jobs. What do
> > you think?
> > Lawrence Rhodes
>
> This post hit home. I've been spending the last week trying to find a
> good set of cooling products to sell on the EV Source site in the
> Top-Line Shop that would work well with Zillas. I've looked at enough
> different pumps to make my eyes go buggy. Your idea has crossed my
> mind. But I don't think those little washer motors are meant to run
> continuously, and I don't think they would meet the flow requirements
> (Otmar informs me that 2GPM as listed in the Zilla manual is actually a
> bit high - 1/2GPM would suffice in most circumstances). Pumps that are
> doing that sort of flow have 3/8" outputs or larger. The small diameter
> tubing on the washer motors leads me to think the flow is quite a bit
> lower than that.
>
> Clyde Warman found a cool reservoir that comes with the Maxi-Jet pumps.
> I'm most likely going to stock this item - will include the reservoir
> and pump for around $50. The downside to the Maxi-Jets (aside to their
> great benefits of longevity and silent operation) is that they run on
> 120VAC. So you need a small inverter. Someone mentioned awhile back,
> why not just use a 12V bilge pump? Well I bought a Rule bilge pump for
> testing. It was quiet, had the flow, but needed to be submersed. No
> big deal, right? Well try to find a decent reservoir for a pump this
> size that could easily be mounted in your engine compartment. Not easy
> (if anyone has any suggestions, I'm open to them). So, I'm going to run
> with this Maxi-Jet setup. I'll try to put together something that can
> easily be integrated into any design, and that will be very tempting to
> those considering their own design due to its low cost. I'm not doing
> this pump thing to make money - doing it to augment the Zilla controller
> line.
>
> By the way, I was looking into the Swiftech MCP350 pump. I had high
> hopes for this pump. Otmar about made me cry when he mentioned his
> reservations about this pump. It only has one bearing, and the magnets
> keep the other side centered when rotating. Jarring can cause crashing
> inside. Server racks don't get much jarring, but EVs do. I guess
> others have had luck using this awesome little pump, but it wouldn't be
> any fun to ruin a $70 pump in a year of driving.
>
> Keep your eye out for the Zilla cooling section in the Top-Line Shop.
>
> -Ryan
>
> --
> - EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
> Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
> All at the best prices available!
> E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That sound like you want a Zivan...
My PFC chargers are Non isolated... and if you have Floodies and acid
tracks, You will certianly get tickled once in a while.
I am designing a Isolated series of chargers, but they are not ready for the
public yet.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:50 PM
Subject: RE: What charger to use?
>
> Don, Rich and all others:
>
> please excude my being clueless. But my first Ev had an uninsulated
> onboard charger and I got shocked a few times before I finally decided to
> disconnect it.
>
> >From my experience, it is not that easy (especially with floodies) to
> avoid any and all unwanted voltage crossovers. I am just concerned that a
> non-insulated charger will be not as safe as an insulated version.
>
> mm.
>
>
> >
> > Michaela, I am not sure what charger you use on your EV today, but you
> > must
> > realize: how can a charger "sense" what make, model and chemistry of
> > battery
> > is being used? How to sense the acceptance voltage? The current limit?
> >
> > Every EV is different and will have different battery types and voltages
> > and
> > charge currents. **All** chargers must be set-up for the EV being
used -
> > this includes Rich's PFC, Zivan's, Brusa's etc. On your EV did you not
> > have
> > to set up the charge parameters? Or did you get the factory to set it
up?
> >
> > Once Rich's PFC has been set-up, it only needs to be turned on - that is
> > it.
> > So if you drink a dozen beer, you can just come out and throw on the
> > switch
> > - no fiddling required (BTW Beer does not mix with any kind of car). Or
> > your wife or kid can do it - just like turning on the light switch.
This
> > is
> > the same as Zivan and Brusa.
> >
> > Keep in mind that Zivan chargers need to be **factory** set up for your
> > battery pack. If you ever change your pack, you need to either tinker
> > with
> > the guts or send it back to be reset. With the PFC, you turn a knob and
> > or
> > a trimmer pot - no factory required. Brusa chargers can be set-up with
> > software from your computer.
> >
> > Not to say that the first gen of the PFC is perfect, and Rich is
listening
> > to his current customers who have experience with his chargers. I know
he
> > has an isolation version of the charger and Rich and Joe have been
looking
> > into temp compensation and (maybe) charger turn off at a low current
> > level.
> >
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> > www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Michaela Merz
> > Sent: September 10, 2005 7:01 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: What charger to use?
> >
> >
> >
> > Rich:
> >
> > I don't want to in any way question the capabilities of your charger. I
am
> > sure it is a great system. But I think I would like to see a charger
that
> > doesn't need tuning, maybe senses the necessary data itself. That maybe
> > has
> > two voltage presets and can be used even in the dark (and after a few
> > beers). Your product seems to be perfect for the ev tinkerer and I think
I
> > would be able to 'handle' it, but I don't want to train my spouse or my
> > kid
> > on how to charge the car.
> >
> > And while it most certainly makes sense to not use transformers, I
> > wouldn't
> > mind some losses in order to have an insulated system. And why do I need
a
> > timer to shut the charger off? Isn't there a way to sense the cutoff
> > voltage
> > and turn off by itself (maybe after some time to allow for
equalization)?
> >
> > mm.
> >
> >
> >> HunnH?
> >>
> >> Just plug it in and tune the voltage. That simple.
> >> The complete saftey check out is only needed when you think you hurt
it.
> >>
> >> It's a non isolated charger... no transformer. Less losses and a MUCH
> >> wider voltage range.
> >>
> >> The timer is so it shuts off.
> >>
> >> The Zivan is a single voltage product. Get one for each voltage you
> >> need.
> >> PFC chargers can be used on all voltage EVs from 12 volts to 450. So
> >> yes you have to adjust them for each appliaction.
> >>
> >> ONE if you can't deal with a voltage meter on your EV and read the
> >> voltage as you are tuning the charger...maybe you need to stick to
> >> plug and play chargers.
> >>
> >> Two....a jewlers screw driver and a DVM and about 30 seconds of
> >> time... is cheap compared to 2 complete chargers.
> >>
> >> And I am going to have Joe NUKE The instructions that take you all
> >> through the "Precharge" nightmare, it's totally over kill safety.
> >>
> >> You will find that Zivan Plug and play chargers work just that way.
> >> Life is good until the battery string dies early and you have no clue
> >> why.
> >> All packs need some adjustments for age and weather changes. Assuming
> >> all the varibles are engineered out is rather foolish.
> >>
> >> Also the reason you are looking for a new charger is one primary
> >> reason I am in business. Zivans fail often and have a rather limited
> >> feature set.
> >>
> >> Rich Rudman
> >> Manzanita Micro
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[email protected]>
> >> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 4:49 PM
> >> Subject: Re: What charger to use?
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Hello Rich and others:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for all the information. I still have some questions in regard
> >>> to your charger and my old Zivan:
> >>>
> >>> I read your installation instructions and quite frankly, they sound a
> >>> little complicated. All that tuning and checking .. I understand that
> >>> this is not a bug but a feature. But - I would have to get an
> >>> amp-meter, solder some 110 V lights, rewire the DC port so that is
> >>> has a chassis ground.
> >>> And
> >>> - why is it not insulated? Why do I need a timer?
> >>>
> >>> My Zivan charger worked like that: Plug in and forget. Once the
> >>> batteries are charged, it turns off. Nothing to tweak, nothing to
> >>> tune.
> >>>
> >>> After tuning for car#1 and car#2, how would I be able to 'mark' the
> >>> position of the pots so that I wouldn't have to go through all the
> >>> tuning again for car #1. Count the revolutions of the pot? Kind of 2
> >>> revolutions to the left and 1/2 revolution to the right?
> >>>
> >>> Confused ...
> >>>
> >>> mm.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > I can have a charger in your hands in 5 days, or less.
> >>> > Get me the funds And I will turn a PFC30 in about 12 hours.
> >>> >
> >>> > Getting the funds here takes longer than making one.
> >>> > I can do a 20 or 20B or 30 in less than a day, The 50s are waiting
> >>> > for
> >> new
> >>> > sheet metal, That gets here Monday.
> >>> >
> >>> > All my PFC series chargers can run off of 110 to 240 AC. simple
> >>> > Mods
> >>> let
> >>> > them run off of DC also.
> >>> >
> >>> > A PFC50B(your appliaction is less than 150 volts ..so I HIGHLY
> >>> recomend
> >>> > the
> >>> > Buck option).
> >>> > This charger can deliver 75 amps of charge current at these voltage
> >>> > levels.
> >>> >
> >>> > Not quite fire and forget. Tune it once, do it right then Forget it.
> >> check
> >>> > your results about every 4 months.
> >>> > The big feature is that you CAN adjust my chargers....From 12 to
> >>> > 450
> >> volts
> >>> > output. The power levels adjust from Zero to full advertised line
> >> current.
> >>> >
> >>> > Rich Rudman
> >>> > Manzanita Micro
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> > From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> > To: <[email protected]>
> >>> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:25 PM
> >>> > Subject: Re: What charger to use?
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Hey John and others:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> > At 07:09 PM 9/9/2005, Michaela Merz wrote:
> >>> >> >>Question about a charger: I have two EVs, one with a 120 V
> >>> >> >>system,
> >> the
> >>> >> >>other with 132 V. I am looking for a charger that would be able
> >>> >> >>to provide both voltages, run off 110 and 220 Volts and provide
> >>> >> >>fully
> >>> automatic
> >>> >> >>charging ('fire and forget').
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>What system would the list suggest and where to get it?
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > http://www.manzanitamicro.com
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Thank you. From what I understand, the PFC-50 would be able to be
> >>> >> run off a 110 V 'normal' outlet with its throttle (kind of a worst
> >>> >> case
> >>> >> scenario) adjusted ?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Anybody here able (willing?) to sell me a charger asap (my Zivan
> >>> >> just died I need my car back :)
> >>> >>
> >>> >> mm.
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Not to say that the first gen of the PFC is perfect, and Rich is listening
> to his current customers who have experience with his chargers. I know he
> has an isolation version of the charger and Rich and Joe have been looking
> into temp compensation and (maybe) charger turn off at a low current
level.
>
>
> Don
>
The Iso charger took a real step forward this weekend...
I actually got some time on it... and I have the front PFC end working
rather well.
The target power for the PFC15i is 3600 watts or 15 amps of grid power, 110
to 240...
I got 4300 watts out of it and got the power stage and inductors to stablize
at 4300 watts. and 69 Deg f shop temp. NOT bad... It basicly sucks 20
amps... and has little effort doing it. So this is a Very safe design for
3600 watts. As they say I have made the specs and have something left in my
pocket..
So Now I have to shoe horn in the Iso former... and support parts, and that
is the hard part.
This first one.. is well a struggle, the next will have all the lessons
learned from the first. But.... it's happening.
The first units to be available will be the Lv unit It's rating are 12 to 72
volts nominal battery voltages. Peak charge will be 90 volts Peak amps will
be limited to 50 amps. So the power point will be 50 amps of 36 volts off of
15 amps of 120 VAC and 50 amps of 72 volts off of 240. The output Amps will
be regulated to not more than 50, and the grind side will be limited to 15.
This is the Low voltage demanded charger, I have folks drooling over it.
Clearly it does not suport most road going EV voltages...But we have to
start with the most wanted flavor. And there are 4 voltage classes in
design, covering 12 to 450 volts, so... If you need iso...
I will have a options for you. Also this product line will have 40 amp
versions. So those needing LOT of power I am going to do that also.
Wait a minute...What's the definition of LOTS of charge power???? Goldie's
new Orbs suck down the watts... Even a PFC50 needs 15 minutes of bulk
charge... and the Monster is 3 of them in parallel, and the UBer
charger....75K will need about 3 minutes to do the same thing.... do I dare
stuff 400 amp into Goldie. Got to 53 amps...
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why not just use common step up 110->220 autotransformer
sold everywhere? It will raise the mains voltage to 220VAC
so no tweaks of your NLG4 needed. The only issue is, 110VAC
is typically limited to 2.4kW before 20A circuit breaker trips,
so use your "power indicator" pot to limit charger's input power.
EVdave wrote:
ok, im sorry, im a newbie... trying not to be a fly on the wall yet not
wanting to open my mouth too much and show everyone how little i know.. :)
im a little confused... i have an E-10.... it has an NLG412
charger... but the label clearly states 220.... what is the popular
concensus... can i make a dummy adaptor to plug it into 110? will it
cause any damage to any part of the system....
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, I bought both pos and negative connectors and I bought the heaviest
heat shrink tubing in red and in black.
When I made the cable from the front to the back it seams pretty obvious
that one is positive and one is negative but as I get up front, since
this is really mid pack the positive goes to a negative post. Just so I
won't loose track of which one was positive from the rear pack, this
negative post connector is on the positive wire and I used red heatshrink.
For the battery to battery jumpers I am using black on each end. There
are other areas where it is even less clear : ie negative battery cable
to anderson to front pack back to anderson, is that positive end of sub
pack connected to - pin on anderson?
It is all relative
Is there a convention yet?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The reason I asked about the Freeway is you can see one on the new Lexus
hybrid SUV ad...also a swoopy looking Electrathon racer, a Sparrow and a
solar powered racer
The Freeway is a pretty durn cool ride...900 lbs! I bet front wheel drive
would improve the handling on a three-wheeler when it comes to the rear
wheel spinning out
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:07 AM 9/12/2005, Jeff Shanab wrote:
For the battery to battery jumpers I am using black on each end. There
are other areas where it is even less clear : ie negative battery cable
to anderson to front pack back to anderson, is that positive end of sub
pack connected to - pin on anderson?
It is all relative
Is there a convention yet?
My Sparrow used hoods that matched the terminal polarity. The cable
color was mostly red, but generally irrelevant.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 12 Sep 2005 at 13:38, Mark Hanson wrote:
> The registration has body type as "low speed" which from what I
> can tell they don't have on their radar screen in Virginia ...
>
> They sealed the batteries inside the fiberglass tunnel ...
>
> The Saft-Nife > charger is set with NO indication of when it
> starts or finishes running ...
>
> The DC converter (get this) is 3amps ...
>
> I'll probably have to cut out access to install the batteries ...
> remount my ferro-resonant charger with uP control ...
>
> Saft & Bombardier say they do not support this vehicle or it's components.
> The rear brakes were *not* installed on the US models ...
>
> there is no chassis just a fiberglass *bathtub* like construction with
> the wheels & motor pop-riveted to the fiberglass.
I mean no offense ... but this "car" is sounding more and more like a toy all
the
time. It seems to have about as many problems (err, challenges ;-) as a C-car,
just different ones. And like a C-car maybe you should ask whether it's worth
the effort.
If you're looking for super-efficient transportation, how about a Twike? Twike
claim up to 130km range - that's probably with pedaling; if you want to relax
knock off 1/3, then another 20% to save the battery, so about 65km or 40 miles.
OK, OK, I'll admit, there's a downside. They're a tad pricey: about 12,300
Euro +
3,600 Euro for a minimal battery configuration, dangerously close to US$20k.
Probably significantly more for the NiMH battery.
Maybe you could make your own battery. Supposedly it's just a long string of
NiCd or NiMH D-cells. (The motor is rated 336 volts, so that's only 280 cells
...
only 70 Radio Shack 4-D-cell holders. ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 12 Sep 2005 at 14:59, EVdave wrote:
> im a little confused... i have an E-10.... it has an NLG412 charger...
> but the label clearly states 220.... what is the popular concensus... can
> i make a dummy adaptor to plug it into 110? will it cause any damage to
> any part of the system....
You can make such an adaptor. It will work, but it's best to use it only for
emergencies. I would NOT use it for routine charging, not even for
opportunity charging.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 12 Sep 2005 at 11:33, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> I don't quite have a nerve to constantly keep promoting BRUSA
> chargers on EVDL as much as Rich does for PFCs
Just to make this clear, while Rich has certainly not been shy about
discussing his chargers, I don't see his posts as being overly promotional at
all. Quite the contrary.
At the very start of the design process, Rich came to the EV list for ideas on
what members wanted in a charger. He's kept us updated on his progress
over the years - we've heard of both failures and successes. His posts are
(as far as I can tell) utterly truthful and informational. Those things are
pretty
rare in ANY product.
As far as I can recall, Rich has never used hyperbole or "adspeak" in an effort
to sell his chargers. (Nor do you, Victor, and many thanks.)
The PFC charger development process was, and is, one of the most open
ones I've ever seen. How else would I know so much about the PFC
chargers, their beauty marks and their warts alike? Everything I've read
about them is out there in full public view for any potential charger customer
to find. Just check the list archives, and be prepared for a fairly long but
worthwhile reading session.
I've never been shy about pointing out what I see as weaknesses in the PFC
design (from a user's standpoint - I'm not qualified to speak from an
engineering perspective). I don't use the PFC charger - though one never
knows what the future holds. But that doesn't mean I consider it a bad
design. I just think that it's important to help other users make an informed
choice, to determine whether the PFC or some other charger is an
appropriate one for their needs.
I have a great deal of respect for Rich, what he's accomplished, and the way
he's accomplished it. I just want that to be 100% understood here. Thanks.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 12 Sep 2005 at 10:00, Rich Rudman wrote:
> So without getting into a technical Slam bang... David you know darn well
> what I was talking about. Why bring it up?
That was an honest question: I really didn't understand what you were saying
or why you were saying it. This latest post makes it clear. Thanks.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Like the Sparrow these were not produced for very long
and they are becoming rarer all the time. Majority of
them were Gas powered. And the Original electrics had
a handling issue which was later resolved by moving
the battery mountings. While cool looking they are
getting harder to find. The Sparrows made still be in
production by Myers Motors. Or you could go for one of
Jerry's Freedom EV's. Another cool looking EV was the
Fiberfab Scarab. Unfortunately there were only 6 of
those produced. Of course if your really set on a 3
wheeler the is R.Q. Rileys Doran, Trimagnum or
Trimutter and then there is the Vortex as well. And if
your really want to go small get the plans for the
California commuter. These a all 3 wheeler that could
be EV's. Unfortunately they are all rare or your have
to build it yourself.
--- Larry Hays <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The reason I asked about the Freeway is you can see
> one on the new Lexus
> hybrid SUV ad...also a swoopy looking Electrathon
> racer, a Sparrow and a
> solar powered racer
> The Freeway is a pretty durn cool ride...900 lbs! I
> bet front wheel drive
> would improve the handling on a three-wheeler when
> it comes to the rear
> wheel spinning out
>
>
______________________________________________________
Yahoo! for Good
Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ok, im not familiar with that.....
1. where can i get the autotransformer?
2. im not familiar with the POT and where it is located.... actually, id
probably not want to change things with the charging characteristics....
can it be done thru a laptop and the rs232 port? that i would feel more
comfortable with...
db
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: Solectria Charger Question
Why not just use common step up 110->220 autotransformer
sold everywhere? It will raise the mains voltage to 220VAC
so no tweaks of your NLG4 needed. The only issue is, 110VAC
is typically limited to 2.4kW before 20A circuit breaker trips,
so use your "power indicator" pot to limit charger's input power.
EVdave wrote:
ok, im sorry, im a newbie... trying not to be a fly on the wall yet not
wanting to open my mouth too much and show everyone how little i know..
:)
im a little confused... i have an E-10.... it has an NLG412 charger...
but the label clearly states 220.... what is the popular concensus...
can i make a dummy adaptor to plug it into 110? will it cause any damage
to any part of the system....
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Strictly speaking I have no Interest in Electric Drag Racing.
But, as a person trying to find the best balance between
cost/performance I do not want to listen to someone tell me Hawker
Batteries are not better than Trojans for a given application. I want
to see what others have actually done with them. Build a car that goes
fast for a short distance? Not for me. I want endurance. But what
happens when I hit a 20 + % grade? Can I merge with traffice w/o
burning out fuse? My First EV is going to be a 3500 lb (curb weight)
Ford Aerostar. I have a family of five. I haul home improvement
supplies and garbage to and from rental houses. The info from these
drag cars are of the utmost value. The only hev on the market with my
needs in mind is the highlander and I do not have 50 + thousand dollars
and I am not impressed with 30 mpg.
Finding a place to park a trailer on long trips and picking it up on
the return trip is something I already do frequently. Hey, I just
realized that. Thanx guys you just saved me money. I do not need to
build a hybrid. Just put an extra battery pack in a 350 lb trailer I
already own. Or a genset ... or a batt pack .. or a genset ... oh I
will figure it out soon.
Thanx again for the dialouge.
Victor Reppeto
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I havent seen this one before...looks great
http://www.bavariabike.de/SAM.htm
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--- Begin Message ---
Here below, is the Web Site and MAPS for Pacific International Raceway.
sooo ry.... I figured any one actually interested enouygh to build, a
Lazy Boy E-Chair, could take the 30 seconds it took me to Google it and
come up with the URL Here Below:
http://www.pacificraceways.com/
Generally, due EAST, south east of Kent Washington. Kent Washington
being due SOUTH of Seattle, about 10 miles.. Seattle Being... East of
New York City ( just kidding....)
From the Get-Go, I always figured that interest in participating in
this (More or less just for FUN ) EV-ent would not get past the
immediate Pacific North West...
As far as the COST to get in for the day of racing... I have been
assured that we ( the EV folks and SEVA folks ) will probably be given
any number of FREE passes to get in. Our monthly SEVA Meeting will be
held Tuesday Evening, as normal, and I will be taking a HEAD-COUNT of
folks who need Passes. Any one in the Greater EV Community, who would
like to attend, please e-mail me or CALL me directly, so I can start a
greater Head Count.
The Exact time of our E-V-ent, it has not been discussed. I would
imagion that it will be either between races, or near the end of the
afternoon.
I have a (very short) list of folks who are building cars, or plan to be
there, and rest assured They will all know who, how, where, when, etc.
when these facts become available to us.
Till then...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Reppeto wrote:
Strictly speaking I have no Interest in Electric Drag Racing.
me neither, but its gotta ad value to the whole process.
what I'm interested in seeing is EV road racing!! yeah baby!
there you've got power/accel. requirements and distance requirements and
handling, weight to power compromises etc etc etc.
A
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thanks, that was my understanding...... i probably wont make the adapter b/c
i wont let myself get down that far... (famous last words....) i did buy
one of those tow bars that they use to tow cars behind motor homes.... if i
get that stuck, ill just call a friend to come tow me home.........
db
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Solectria Charger Question
On 12 Sep 2005 at 14:59, EVdave wrote:
im a little confused... i have an E-10.... it has an NLG412 charger...
but the label clearly states 220.... what is the popular concensus...
can
i make a dummy adaptor to plug it into 110? will it cause any damage to
any part of the system....
You can make such an adaptor. It will work, but it's best to use it only
for
emergencies. I would NOT use it for routine charging, not even for
opportunity charging.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
On 12 Sep 2005 at 11:33, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I don't quite have a nerve to constantly keep promoting BRUSA
chargers on EVDL as much as Rich does for PFCs
Just to make this clear, while Rich has certainly not been shy about
discussing his chargers, I don't see his posts as being overly promotional at
all. Quite the contrary.
Dave, perhaps a bit misunderstanding. I don't do as much talking
about BRUSA as Rich about PFCs not because it is bad thing! Seeing
PFCs pushed is fine with me and good info for everyone if the indo
unbiased, straight and non-invasive.
It's rather my personality that prevents me from bragging as much,
which is perhaps part of the culture I was raised in - for good
or bad here, bragging was considered bad taste behaviour one
should be ashamed of.
And, there is very fine line between bragging and advertisement.
So, again, I don't do it so much, but if others do, I don't
criticize it - contrary, I admire how easy for people is to
plug/unplug. Can't do that, I wish I'd be able to.
Rich, can I take a few lessons from you? :-)
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVdave wrote:
ok, im not familiar with that.....
1. where can i get the autotransformer?
Google "110-220 step up transformer". Many links will come up.
2. im not familiar with the POT and where it is located.... actually, id
probably not want to change things with the charging characteristics....
The power limiter has no effect on charging characteristics other than
reduce charging current in order to stay within allowed input power.
Not sure where it is on NLG4 (David may comment on this), but
NLG5 has an input you connect a 5k pot to. >5k is full power,
reducing to zero also reduces input power to zero.
You can use fixed resistor with switch labeled "110V". Flip it and the
charger will never consume more than 2.4kW (or whatever you set).
can it be done thru a laptop and the rs232 port? that i would feel more
comfortable with...
You *don't want* to do it with laptop - this is re-programming the
charging profile every time you switch between 110V and 220V.
A hardware is far simple and the current limiter is designed
specifically for this purpose.
One can make BRUSA NLG5 work with Rudman regs which will slow down
the charger when any battery reach its limits - in this case reg bus
is connected to the power limiter input of the charger.
Victor
db
----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: Solectria Charger Question
Why not just use common step up 110->220 autotransformer
sold everywhere? It will raise the mains voltage to 220VAC
so no tweaks of your NLG4 needed. The only issue is, 110VAC
is typically limited to 2.4kW before 20A circuit breaker trips,
so use your "power indicator" pot to limit charger's input power.
EVdave wrote:
ok, im sorry, im a newbie... trying not to be a fly on the wall yet
not wanting to open my mouth too much and show everyone how little i
know.. :)
im a little confused... i have an E-10.... it has an NLG412
charger... but the label clearly states 220.... what is the popular
concensus... can i make a dummy adaptor to plug it into 110? will it
cause any damage to any part of the system....
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jeff,
Used the red heat shrink when going to a positive on one battery pack that is a
interconnection line from the negative of the other battery pack which has a
black heat shrink on it.
You end up as a red heat shrink on one end and black on the other end of the
interconnection cable.
When a Anderson connector is install near a battery pack, it is common to
install a red heat shrink on both sides of the Anderson connector and one at
the battery positive connection.
A black heat shrink is also install on both Anderson connectors and one at the
battery negative connection.
At the other battery pack you do the same thing. It will end up as a long pair
of cables with two Anderson connectors at both ends, where the same cable will
be mark as black on one end and red at the other end.
Now if you have a cable that is in a middle section of a EV which is out of
site of the battery packs, just used all black heat shrink and mark the cables
with a letter or number label. Of course the Anderson Connector can only be
plug in one way, so I may only mark them to keep my assembly straight.
My positive end at the battery is mark B+ and is also mark B+ all the way
through to the safety contactors, fuses, main contactor and to the Zilla B+
with Red Heat Shrinks
My negative end at the battery is mark B- and is also mark B- all the way
through to the safety contactors, and to the Zilla B- with Black Heat Shrinks.
All jumper cables have black heat shrink only, because it does not matter which
way the jumpers are install.
All interconnection cables between battery packs will end up with Red at one
end, as well as Red on both sides of the Anderson connection next to the
battery pack. The other end of this cable will end up with all black markings.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Shanab<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 7:07 AM
Subject: More wiring questions
OK, I bought both pos and negative connectors and I bought the heaviest
heat shrink tubing in red and in black.
When I made the cable from the front to the back it seams pretty obvious
that one is positive and one is negative but as I get up front, since
this is really mid pack the positive goes to a negative post. Just so I
won't loose track of which one was positive from the rear pack, this
negative post connector is on the positive wire and I used red heatshrink.
For the battery to battery jumpers I am using black on each end. There
are other areas where it is even less clear : ie negative battery cable
to anderson to front pack back to anderson, is that positive end of sub
pack connected to - pin on anderson?
It is all relative
Is there a convention yet?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Posted for David Cloud by request as he is not on the list.
The car: 1999 Geo Metro with lots of body mods.
Motors: 8 E-tek permanent magnet
Drivetrain: Direct Drive w/split axles Chain driven, Geared for 110mph @
6000rpm
Batteries: 16, group 56, 33Lb wet cells running in 2 strings @ 96 volts, $10
Blems Purchased in 2001
Controller: N/A
Switches: 1 main contactor, 2 series/parallel switches manual engagement
Curb weight : under 2000Lbs with driver
Set new Nedra record: MC-120v with a time of 14.531sec @ 92.13mph
Now for some commentary of the cars performance.
I was a little disappointed with the ET, but was pleased with the speed
though the traps. This being the cars first outing and I was not sure how it
was going to perform.
My driver (Steve Nash) reports the launch was sluggish but had better
acceleration at mid track then went a little flat towards the end of the
quarter mile.
Post race inspection of the motors show absolutely no brush wear or arcing
what so ever .
My plan for next time is to bump the actual voltage to 120, this should
improve the top end. For the launch I am going to add two 5.5in 24v Advanced
DC Motors, to the existing E-tek motors geared for 110mph @ 9000rpm. I am
also currently looking for better batteries that do not sag as much, just
like every one else is, but I won't have to mortgage the house for them.
Dave Cloud
--
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--- End Message ---
