EV Digest 4705
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: DMV purgatory
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Drag
by "paul compton \(RRes-Roth\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Fwd: Crimping cables!, getting closer!
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Digital or analog gauges
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Digital or analog gauges
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the modern
world.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: curtis controller needed
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Paralleling and seriesing variac's, controllers and simular devices.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) unsubscribe
by "David Batchelder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Fwd: Crimping cables!, getting closer!
by "Ray Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: What charger to use?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: EVILbus (was: e-meter type gadget)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) IOTA Question
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment
of the modern world.
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Paralleling and seriesing variac's, controllers and simular devices.
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Crimping cables!, getting closer!
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: What charger to use?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: What charger to use?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: unsubscribe
by Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Plasma Cutter
by "Ray Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Plasma Cutter
by "Ray Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: What charger to use?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Crimping cables!, getting closer!
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Rich, Goldie, and motor mods
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: EVILbus
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dave,
Thanks, I looked at the Twike since I like to peddle also, actually my first
choice, but the price scared me away.
Have a renewable energy day, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: DMV purgatory
> On 12 Sep 2005 at 13:38, Mark Hanson wrote:
>
> > The registration has body type as "low speed" which from what I
> > can tell they don't have on their radar screen in Virginia ...
> >
> > They sealed the batteries inside the fiberglass tunnel ...
> >
> > The Saft-Nife > charger is set with NO indication of when it
> > starts or finishes running ...
> >
> > The DC converter (get this) is 3amps ...
> >
> > I'll probably have to cut out access to install the batteries ...
> > remount my ferro-resonant charger with uP control ...
> >
> > Saft & Bombardier say they do not support this vehicle or it's
components.
> > The rear brakes were *not* installed on the US models ...
> >
> > there is no chassis just a fiberglass *bathtub* like construction with
> > the wheels & motor pop-riveted to the fiberglass.
>
> I mean no offense ... but this "car" is sounding more and more like a toy
all the
> time. It seems to have about as many problems (err, challenges ;-) as a
C-car,
> just different ones. And like a C-car maybe you should ask whether it's
worth
> the effort.
>
> If you're looking for super-efficient transportation, how about a Twike?
Twike
> claim up to 130km range - that's probably with pedaling; if you want to
relax
> knock off 1/3, then another 20% to save the battery, so about 65km or 40
miles.
>
> OK, OK, I'll admit, there's a downside. They're a tad pricey: about
12,300 Euro +
> 3,600 Euro for a minimal battery configuration, dangerously close to
US$20k.
> Probably significantly more for the NiMH battery.
>
> Maybe you could make your own battery. Supposedly it's just a long string
of
> NiCd or NiMH D-cells. (The motor is rated 336 volts, so that's only 280
cells ...
> only 70 Radio Shack 4-D-cell holders. ;-)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> I think your best bet might be to start off with a Hayabusa or
>> CBR1100XX or similar 300kph bike ... they spent a lot of time
>> on aerodynamics on those, and the fairing is relatively protective
>> of the rider. They're also quite big, wide bikes which should
>> leave room for batteries to fit inside the fairing.
>>
>> This might be interesting: http://www.qsl.net/n5mya/aero.html
> After reading that article, you'd recommend the Hayabusa?
> Go back and read it again, pay partiarticularly the part about the Cd
of
> the "aerodynamic" Hayabusa. A 0.56 Cd put's it roughly in the same
league
> as a school bus. And it's big, it has a relatively large frontal area
to
> go with the high Cd.
It would be really helpful if people would forget all about the Cd
figure. It's of interest only to serious aerodynamics researchers and
the marketing department.
The Cd figure is derived from wind tunnel test data. An object is placed
in a wind tunnel and the force exerted on that object at the test air
speed measured. That force figure is actually the one we as EV builders
are interested in. If an vehicle needs 1000 pounds of force to propel it
through the air and has a drive wheel with a rolling radius of 12" then
the torque at the axle is 1000lb/ft. From this it is easy to work out
the torque and speed at the motor and hence the power requirement.
However in order to be able to compare the relative efficiency of
various shapes the coefficient of drag (Cd) figure was devised. It is
the drag force divided by half the velocity squared * air density * the
reference area. This latter term is where we run into trouble; IT IS NOT
ALWAYS THE FRONTAL AREA. Generally with road vehicles it is the frontal
area, but if you are comparing aerofoil shapes the number gets
inconveniently small and you may use the plan area or the 'wetted' area
instead. More problems occur with frontal area. Vehicles are not simple
shapes and there can be a large discrepancy between gross frontal area
(width * height) and outline frontal area. Different people have
different ideas about what to include in the frontal area (mirrors
etc.). Yet another problem is the wind tunnel used. Road vehicles
operate very close to the ground and so the air flow along the floor of
the tunnel is very important. At the very least you want the minimum
boundary layer on the floor (The MIRA wind tunnel in the UK was very
popular with vehicle manufacturers as it had a floor boundary layer
about a foot thick, giving very optimistic drag figures), ideally you
want a moving floor tunnel.
In any case there is a great deal of opportunity to 'create' the Cd
figure your marketing department wants, by exaggerating the frontal area
over the true figure (if there is such a thing for a complex shape like
a car). If you are really lucky you might be able to get the CdA figure
which includes the original frontal area and calculate the drag. It
doesn't mean though that you can compare the Cd part with another
vehicle which might have used a different method for calculating frontal
area.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
Where did you get the heat shrink with sealant? I'm looking for the same thing
for my 2/0 cables.
Waytekwire.com is an excellent source for various automotive electrical
parts. They do not seem to mind dealing with smaller orders ($25-100)
and thier online catalog is great. The hotmelt heat shrink tubing is a
tad expensive (about $2/foot). I use a standard heatgun to shrink it,
works great.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Robert,
To cut a square hole in a panel, either in metal or plastic, there are several
methods:
Using a template of the hole size you need, used a metal scribe to out line the
hole.
Drill holes in each corner, just touching the scribe marks, and than saw with a
very small pointed key hole saw design for metal cutting.
Another way is when you have drill the four corners, used a nippier, which is a
small hand tool that can cut metal or plastic by nippling it as it goes.
The best way is when you drill the four corner holes the correct distance from
the corners for a squared knock out punch. I used this method a lot for
installing square mounting rocker switches.
Make sure there is no bracket or wires behind this location.
You can get these knock out punches from a electrical supply house, a
electronics supply house, a tool supply house or may be Home Depot.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Chew<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:59 AM
Subject: Re: Digital or analog gauges
HI james and all,
Thanks heaps for your advice. I do like the idea of at the glance style led
bargraph. Also still tossing up with 20 automotive voltmeters. Again,
shouldn't be a problem because of the easy mounting. Although i plan to have
these meters infront of my gearstick and wouldn't be too good for at the
glance style monitoring. Maybe analog gauges and also digital panel meters,
from jaycar at 29.95, configurable to 500vDC. Nice red displays, although
now how do i cut a square hole. Never done it before.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:59 AM 9/13/2005, Robert Chew wrote:
Thanks heaps for your advice. I do like the idea of at the glance
style led bargraph. Also still tossing up with 20 automotive
voltmeters. Again, shouldn't be a problem because of the easy
mounting. Although i plan to have these meters infront of my
gearstick and wouldn't be too good for at the glance style monitoring. Maybe
Just what do you expect to be able to tell from this big bank of meters?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From the London Times via the ETlist.
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:27:47 -0000
From: "Noel Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: An invention that would have been great - if only
An invention that would be great if only it had been invented
MATTHEW PARRIS
The London Times
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1065-1376855,00.html
IF I HAD needed persuading, Libby Purves would have persuaded me. For
the past fortnight T2 has been pursuing a quest to identify the
greatest British invention in history, and by Wednesday a shortlist
of five had been decided by Times readers' votes: vaccination; the
bicycle; the computer; electricity; and (as best runner-up) the
electric light. Today the winner is announced. Given the chance to go
all misty-eyed, we British seldom pass it up: naturally the bicycle
triumphed. But there can be no doubt which invention won the debate
if not the vote. It was the candidate canvassed by Libby in
Thursday's T2: electricity.
Just glance at the four headings under which T2 chose to group its
inventions: medicine, transport, "the way we live" and industry. The
editor put electricity into the industry category, but in fact it has
made vast contributions in each of the other three. Most of our
trains, all our households and the central nervous systems of every
hospital are electric. As a medium for the transmission of energy and
information, electricity is non-pareil.
One thing holds it back. One thing stands between electricity and
world domination, keeping alive its only serious competitor: oil.
There is but one reason why fossil fuels retain their grip as sources
of heat and (via the internal combustion engine) motion. Our failure -
Britain's and the world's - to invent an adequate electric battery
is the sole cause of our dependence upon fossil fuels. Everything
else - air pollution, global warming, rising sea-levels - flows from
that.
Sometimes it is what stares us in the face that we most readily
overlook. We dwell on our small failures because we can imagine
overcoming them; but we hardly try to picture what life would be like
if the really big blocks to our progress were to disappear because
these blocks are so familiar a part of our mental furniture that we
cease to notice them. Perhaps you have never stopped to ask why there
are no battery-powered helicopters, propeller-aircraft or lifts, why
most electrical power comes to you along cables and wires whereas
nobody would try to connect his oil-fired central-heating boiler by
pipe to a refinery, or why the very idea of continuously fuelling a
bus through a lowered scoop dragged along a small diesel duct running
down the middle of the road, would be laughed off as absurd.
In each case the reason is the same. The magic of oil is not (as we
sometimes assume) its potency as a fuel, but the ease with which it
can be stored and transported. The magic of oil is its portability,
not its punch.
Here are some salient and surprising little facts about batteries.
Expressed in joules per kilogram, a jerry-can of petrol stores more
than a hundred times the energy a typical car battery can store. If
you emptied your car battery's rubbery shell of its lead and acid
contents, and replaced them with a few lumps of coal the energy
stored could take your car farther than a charged battery could. To
put it bluntly, batteries are terrible at storing power. So pitiful
is our battery technology that in a pathetic attempt to store
electrical power we (electrically) pump lake-size quantities of water
uphill at night in Wales, then run it back down through generating
turbines in the day. And we beg householders to buy their electricity
(at half-price) at night and heat up boxes of bricks with it (Economy
7 storage heaters).
It is true that a range of high-tech dry-cell batteries has now been
developed which are better, joules per gram, than the traditional
lead-acid battery, but they are not that much better - not even in
the same league as an equivalent weight of petrol - and they are
expensive, polluting and not generally rechargeable. The impression
we have that batteries are getting smaller and their life longer is
explained mostly by the development of lower-energy lights and
electronic equipment that takes less power.
Here are some facts about carbon-based fuels. A kilogram of petrol or
diesel stores around 50 million joules of energy. The equivalent for
coal is about 27 million. Wood varies wildly, but might be about 5
million. A car battery offers less than half a million: less than a
tenth the power of firewood. Sixty motorists filling their tanks on
garage forecourts are transferring energy at a rate equivalent to the
whole output of a medium-size coal-fired power station.
Energy stored in oil is portable; energy stored in batteries hardly
is. This generation knows it, cursing as our torches dim, our mobile
phones fizzle out, our laptop screens go blank, our TV
camera/recorders cut, and we trip on the lead of the electric hover-
mower whose cable won't quite reach that grass border.
Here are some facts about electricity transmitted and distributed as
most of our power stations' output must be: down conducting cables
and wires. As much as 10 per cent of it is lost: "leaked" into the
ether by the resistance offered by all conductors, which simply heat
up. In Britain and America, urbanised countries, the figure is around
7 per cent. In countries with longer distances from power source to
point of consumption the figures can be much higher.
This loss in the power that we do transmit is calculable. The loss in
power that we don't (because the wastage and the cost of the cabling
would be unacceptable) is incalculable. The Sahara desert might
supply half the world with solar-generated power, if there were any
practical way we could carry it to where it was needed. "Green"
sources of energy - wind, wave, solar, tidal, geothermic - are
disadvantaged by being in the wrong place. So is Saudi Arabian oil,
but it is portable, so we use oil and coal to generate electricity.
Which is a pity, because about half the energy locked in fossil fuel
is wasted when we deliver it via a heat-driven power station. Oil is
more efficiently exploited when we burn it directly in our homes and
cars. And so we live in an age when every man keeps at home and
carries with him when he travels, a range of small furnaces and
explosion-driven engines. Battery-powered cars and buses never quite
make the grade - too much battery, too little power - and rail
locomotives need a cat's cradle of overhead cables, or run on
electricity but carry their own inboard motors to generate it.
Meanwhile mankind has spent a hundred years, and money and time
beyond calculation, developing and finessing one of the most stupidly
Heath-Robinson devices ever invented: the internal combustion engine,
with its thousands of moving parts. The petrol engine should have
been a curiosity, a technological cul-de-sac, but we have blasted
through the dead end with sheer effort and money, because there
seemed no other way.
Trillions of dollars and millions of careers are poured into sparking
and lubricating and cooling, into mixing fuel and air, into lead
substitutes, into valves and rings and rods, pumps, gaskets and
seals, pistons and bearings, clutches, gears and synchromesh,
mufflers and catalytic converters - a bewildering host of delicate
and fiddling devices of often fiendish intricacy, plus all the
electronics which now go with them. Almost none of this is required
by the simple electric motor.
And all because oil is portable. Yet a motor car struggles to deliver
between 20 and 40 per cent of the energy it consumes, while an
electric motor delivers 80 to 90 per cent, using a power source -
electricity - which can be generated in almost infinite quantities,
without a whiff of smoke or a smidgeon of oil. An electric motor
needs no clutch or gearing; it can steal back its own fuel, through
regenerative braking; and it emits nothing. Yet it remains the
Cinderella of locomotion while, indoors, Britain makes millions of
enclosed fires in hearths and boilers for heating. Such is the price
of our failure to find a way to store or carry electrical power. I
know what my Great British Invention would have to be.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you have an older 1221Bthese guys might help you. I don't know if they
can sell you a product but it's worth a phone call. I have my rebuilt and
upgraded (144v) 1221B installed. I haven't tested it yet. Read below.
The day of high priced rebuilt controllers are over. They give this
controller a 480 amp cont rating. It has no problem pulling rated amperage
for the 1 minute test I gave it, so I will now post the contact info. These
guys sell mainly to golf cart repair shops but are very pro-ev. This is a
5k~0 controller, so wire your pot accordingly. Mention that Bob Lemke
refered you and those prices I posted earlier are good. This unit is a 72
volt, 480 amp controller that with shipping was $247.00. $235.00.
LogiSystems
9910 West 64th Street
Odessa, Texas 79764
Phone (432) 381-6000
Fax (432) 381-6001
72 volt 1000 amp..................$475.00
120 volt 1000 amp................$675.00
----- Original Message -----
From: "john" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 9:52 PM
Subject: curtis controller needed
I'm in need of a curtis controller model 1231C-8601. Curtis is back
ordered and I really don't want ot wait another month to get rolling
again. Anyone have a good used or new one hanging around that they want
to sell? Thanks JOhn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a dual variac.(two variacs on a metal rod in a case) 220vac. each
unit is 8amps. I'd like to use both outputs together somehow for more
amperage. Is it possible to combine the outputs either at the AC output
point so I wouldn't have to use two bridges or after it has been converted
to DC after the bridge on the DC side?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please remove me from the list. I am still getting a large quantity of emails
since my last attempt to be removed weeks ago.
David Batchelder
Sales Engineer
Innovative Conveyor Concepts, Inc.
Ph: 972-567-7759
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out the seller Genuinedealz on Ebay. I bought pre-tinned wire, lugs
and heat shrink with sealant for a boat project.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Farver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Crimping cables!, getting closer!
> Dave Cover wrote:
>
> >Where did you get the heat shrink with sealant? I'm looking for the same
thing for my 2/0 cables.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Waytekwire.com is an excellent source for various automotive electrical
> parts. They do not seem to mind dealing with smaller orders ($25-100)
> and thier online catalog is great. The hotmelt heat shrink tubing is a
> tad expensive (about $2/foot). I use a standard heatgun to shrink it,
> works great.
>
> Mark
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich,
Sounds very cool. Having a 72v system this interests me buy don't you need a
higher voltage than 90v or are you not targeting floodies?
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:23:50 -0700
Subject: Re: What charger to use?
> Not to say that the first gen of the PFC is perfect, and Rich is listening
> to his current customers who have experience with his chargers. I know he
> has an isolation version of the charger and Rich and Joe have been looking
> into temp compensation and (maybe) charger turn off at a low current
level.
>
>
> Don
>
The Iso charger took a real step forward this weekend...
I actually got some time on it... and I have the front PFC end working
rather well.
The target power for the PFC15i is 3600 watts or 15 amps of grid power, 110
to 240...
I got 4300 watts out of it and got the power stage and inductors to stablize
at 4300 watts. and 69 Deg f shop temp. NOT bad... It basicly sucks 20
amps... and has little effort doing it. So this is a Very safe design for
3600 watts. As they say I have made the specs and have something left in my
pocket..
So Now I have to shoe horn in the Iso former... and support parts, and that
is the hard part.
This first one.. is well a struggle, the next will have all the lessons
learned from the first. But.... it's happening.
The first units to be available will be the Lv unit It's rating are 12 to 72
volts nominal battery voltages. Peak charge will be 90 volts Peak amps will
be limited to 50 amps. So the power point will be 50 amps of 36 volts off of
15 amps of 120 VAC and 50 amps of 72 volts off of 240. The output Amps will
be regulated to not more than 50, and the grind side will be limited to 15.
This is the Low voltage demanded charger, I have folks drooling over it.
Clearly it does not suport most road going EV voltages...But we have to
start with the most wanted flavor. And there are 4 voltage classes in
design, covering 12 to 450 volts, so... If you need iso...
I will have a options for you. Also this product line will have 40 amp
versions. So those needing LOT of power I am going to do that also.
Wait a minute...What's the definition of LOTS of charge power???? Goldie's
new Orbs suck down the watts... Even a PFC50 needs 15 minutes of bulk
charge... and the Monster is 3 of them in parallel, and the UBer
charger....75K will need about 3 minutes to do the same thing.... do I dare
stuff 400 amp into Goldie. Got to 53 amps...
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> I want a system with no bus master; where each device can operate
>> independently. It broadcasts what it knows, and looks for broadcasts
>> from other devices in case they have useful information. For instance,
>> an E-meter type device on the EVILbus just broadcasts what it knows
>> (pack voltage, current, amphours). A charger on the EVILbus can look
>> for this data (like amphours) to do a better job charging the pack.
>> But if this data isn't there, it just does its usual job without
>> this information.
Shawn Rutledge wrote:
> It sounds like a good strategy. But I do worry that if evilbus is
> not widely adopted, it will be just as inscrutable to a stranger.
My thought is to use ASCII, not binary for EVILbus. The messages would
be in plain text, so you can figure out what they mean. For example, an
E-meter might send:
V=123.4v I=50.1a A=-100.8ah T=22.5c
You could just plug an RS-232 to EVILbus adapter onto your PC, use any
terminal program to look at the data, and immediately figure out what it
means.
You could program even as simple a micro as a BASIC stamp to look at the
data stream and find what it wants. For example, a charger could look
for the capital "A" to find the amphour data to see whether more
charging is needed.
Collisions are avoided by assigning each sender a timeslot. When a
collision occurs, the loser picks a new time slot.
> At least you can find a bigger bunch of engineers who have CAN
> experience, or slog through the books and figure it out. And the
> future tends to bring faster networks more than slower ones.
Yes, I know. Every standard begins with one installed device, and grows
from there. It started because it was simpler, cheaper, and worked
better in the application than the other standards before it. But over
time, the standard grows in power and sophistication until it becomes so
bloated and byzantine that no new users can figure it out. (And it gets
replaced with the next new standard, and the cycle repeats :-)
My hope is that an EVer who doesn't know either CAN or EVILbus will find
that he can learn and implement EVILbus a lot quicker and more cheaply
than CANbus. It might be an Otmar Ebenhoech building a controller, or
Rich Rudman building a charger. They use it, because they don't have the
time or money to implement CAN. Others buy their controller or charger,
and EVILbus spreads.
--
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
-- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I won one of these 55am Iota's on ebay and the guy just emailed me
before shipping asking me if i need the following addition. Im unsure if
i need it or not if using as my dc dc converter for my Aux battery...
THANK YOU FOR YOUR PURCHASE
If you are intending for FULL TIME use on a boat or RV or to charge
batteries the IQ-4 multiple 3 stage charging option is NEEDED. It will
Automatically
vary charging voltage to stimulate batteries at a higher voltage for maximum
amperage absorption then drop back to the lower voltage bulk stage and
maintenience stage to maintain batteries for longer unused periods of time
like weeks or months without the need for monitoring and keep batteries
charged to 100% for immediate use. It will Automatically equalize the
batteries, too. This will give you more reserve power output ( up to 20%
more ) and make the batteries last longer ( up to 20% longer ). The IQ-4
is $ 35.00 additional with no additional shipping. WHERE CAN YOU
BUY A
BATTERY CHARGER OF THIS SIZE FOR THIS PRICE ??? ADD $ 35.00 to
the
amount below if you want this option.
If you are intending to use the Iota for a power supply the IQ-4 is NOT
necessary, but, may be helpful for additional battery charging usage. It is
a user plug-in option and can be installed or removed in a few seconds.
NOTE !
THESE UNITS ARE DUAL PURPOSE AND CAN BE USED AS A POWER SUPPLY
OR FULLY AUTOMATIC BATTERY CHARGER WITH THE IQ-4 MODULE.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A great though sobering post.
Kind of sums up the EV'ers dilemma. Batteries, the bane of our
existance, yet the only thing that makes an EV possible.
Is there any other way to store electrical power?
Do ultracaps hold more promise?
I don't understand why aluminum-air mechanically-recharged battery
systems have yet to be introduced for an EV application. It would seem
feasible to me, to stop at a eletrolytic station on my way to Grandma's
house, to add some base or acid. To get my 3000-mile aluminum change,
and pay my recycling fee for the oxides that are flushed...
Why aren't we all driving Al-Air electrics?
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
From the London Times via the ETlist.
Message: 2 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:27:47 -0000
From: "Noel Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: An invention that would have been great - if only
An invention that would be great if only it had been invented
MATTHEW PARRIS
The London Times
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1065-1376855,00.html
IF I HAD needed persuading, Libby Purves would have persuaded me. For
the past fortnight T2 has been pursuing a quest to identify the greatest
<snip>
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Lawrence,
You can do it either way. The advantage of rectifying each section
separately before combining the outputs is that it avoids the possiblity of
the sections " fighting" each other, even when you are not loading the
output. If you combine the sections before recitification, you may get
substantial current flowing from one section into the other even with no
load attached. That's because the two sections will not be exactly matched
voltage-wise.
In either case, though, they will not likely supply the same current into
the load, so that it will not be abl to supply as much current as a single
220V 16 amp variac section. One section will reach its max current before
the other does.
Phil
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Subject: Paralleling and seriesing variac's, controllers and simular
devices.
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:49:09 -0700
I have a dual variac.(two variacs on a metal rod in a case) 220vac. each
unit is 8amps. I'd like to use both outputs together somehow for more
amperage. Is it possible to combine the outputs either at the AC output
point so I wouldn't have to use two bridges or after it has been converted
to DC after the bridge on the DC side?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Crimping cables!, getting closer!
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 02:50:24 -0500
I kind of doubt it's the power of the gun. I have a 1500W heat gun and on
its highest setting it's an immediate danger to anything plastic, wood, or
even painted metal. It does take a few moments to heat up all the way, but
I wouldn't do heatshrink at its max temp unless I had to do it from a foot
away. The tough part is getting the heat to the backside if you don't have
the cable loose where you can apply heat to both sides.
It might burn the outside of really thick heatshink before it soaks through
the tubing so it will shrink. But that stuff with the layer of sealant is
quality stuff and is much better than a simple crimp. Not that there's
anything wrong with crimps.
Danny
Danny - I'm not sure I understand your last statement. Are you talking
about using heat shring tubing instead of crimping??
Phil
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On 13 Sep 2005 at 11:22, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Having a 72v system this interests me buy don't you need
> a higher voltage than 90v or are you not targeting floodies?
If you're running 72 volts, you might want to look into the Delta-Q chargers.
Randy Holmquist at Canadian EV sells them. They appear to be well
designed, robust, smart chargers - and they're fully isolated.
http://www.delta-q.com/quiq3datasheet.pdf
Seems to me that someone on this list works for Delta-Q, but I don't recall
whom. Maybe he'll chime in.
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Already got one. What interested me here is higher current and I assume the
Rich would
have the same type of controls on the isolated charger that would allow you to
set the
voltage. One challenge I have with the Delta-Q is that as the batteries get
older, they
no longer hit the peak voltage with a low enough current to signal the end of
bulk. I'd like to
just lower the peak but there is no way to do that. The solution is when my
batteries get tired,
I switch to the dV/dT mode.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: David Roden (Akron OH USA) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:24:42 -0400
Subject: Re: What charger to use?
On 13 Sep 2005 at 11:22, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Having a 72v system this interests me buy don't you need
> a higher voltage than 90v or are you not targeting floodies?
If you're running 72 volts, you might want to look into the Delta-Q chargers.
Randy Holmquist at Canadian EV sells them. They appear to be well
designed, robust, smart chargers - and they're fully isolated.
http://www.delta-q.com/quiq3datasheet.pdf
Seems to me that someone on this list works for Delta-Q, but I don't recall
whom. Maybe he'll chime in.
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you might try...
unsubscribe ev
mailed to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A
David Batchelder wrote:
Please remove me from the list. I am still getting a large quantity of emails
since my last attempt to be removed weeks ago.
David Batchelder
Sales Engineer
Innovative Conveyor Concepts, Inc.
Ph: 972-567-7759
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A great fabrication tool is a portable bandsaw. You can cut slight curves
and sometimes you are limited by the saw's throat depth but there is not a
more useful tool in a fab shop. I did race car fab for about 5 years and the
only power saw in my shop was a portable bandsaw.
The problem with any cutting torch is the slag left on the cut line. This
needs to be ground off before welding.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 11:50 PM
Subject: Plasma Cutter
> For some tools, getting the better tool saves time and frustration.
>
> I'm planning to get a plasma cutter for my next EV conversion tool.
> Is there really much difference between the $500 Harbor Freight one
> and a $1500 Miller or Lincoln? I need to cut 1/4 inch steel, but
> don't foresee a need to cut thicker than that.
>
> A steel cutting blade in a circular saw works OK, but only in
> straight lines!
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
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http://www.mytoolstore.com/milwauke/6238.html
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OK ok....
Constant voltage transformer, have a rather narrow working voltage
range, Boost/buck does not have that limitation.
I know the Brusa has a more advanced design than just a transformer.
Rich Rudman
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: What charger to use?
> On 12 Sep 2005 at 10:00, Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > So without getting into a technical Slam bang... David you know darn
well
> > what I was talking about. Why bring it up?
>
> That was an honest question: I really didn't understand what you were
saying
> or why you were saying it. This latest post makes it clear. Thanks.
>
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This may sound silly but when we were converting a VW Cabriolet in
Turlock with Electro Auto's kit we found ourselves short a heat gun.
Not wanting to delay our project, one of the students pulled out his Bic
lighter and asked if it would work.
It worked really well and best of all was very fast. Necessity Is the
Mother of Invention.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Danny Miller
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:50 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Crimping cables!, getting closer!
>
> I kind of doubt it's the power of the gun. I have a 1500W
> heat gun and on its highest setting it's an immediate danger
> to anything plastic, wood, or even painted metal. It does
> take a few moments to heat up all the way, but I wouldn't do
> heatshrink at its max temp unless I had to do it from a foot
> away. The tough part is getting the heat to the backside if
> you don't have the cable loose where you can apply heat to both sides.
>
> It might burn the outside of really thick heatshink before it
> soaks through the tubing so it will shrink. But that stuff
> with the layer of sealant is quality stuff and is much better
> than a simple crimp. Not that there's anything wrong with crimps.
>
> Danny
>
> Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> >2. I found some really nice, very thick heatshrink tubing
> with a layer
> >of sealant inside. I bought a 1500 watt heat gun at harbor freight.
> >1500 watts is not enough, it takes at least twice as long to
> shrink than crimp.
> >
> >
>
>
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My next EV will be a Ranger or my Old 1980 Capri. Both will have 8.8 or a 9
inch rear end.
And both need more than a Stock 8 incher....
So... I will be keeping the 8.
Rich Rudman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: Rich, Goldie, and motor mods
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> >sometime I will have to have here turned into Rebar. She is old and
> rusting away.
>
> What's you next car going to be for that motor, controller, and batteries?
>
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Hi Lee,
As a software guy, I think 32 nodes is plenty, and I would love to
utilize a simpler bus than CAN and its many variations.
But could you please change the name? Like many inside jokes, it does
not quite carry over into public. It sounds like the nickname given to
many of the protocol standards I've been coerced into working with over
the years. Instead of morphing Jon into Igor, call him Oscar or Otmar or
some such, and gain the EVol-ution entendre. Or anything else. To answer
Shakespeare's question: First impressions. I don't want to tell my wife
I am working on evil bus code...
Regards
Lee Hart wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
I want a system with no bus master; where each device can operate
independently. It broadcasts what it knows, and looks for broadcasts
from other devices in case they have useful information. For instance,
an E-meter type device on the EVILbus just broadcasts what it knows
(pack voltage, current, amphours). A charger on the EVILbus can look
for this data (like amphours) to do a better job charging the pack.
But if this data isn't there, it just does its usual job without
this information.
Shawn Rutledge wrote:
It sounds like a good strategy. But I do worry that if evilbus is
not widely adopted, it will be just as inscrutable to a stranger.
My thought is to use ASCII, not binary for EVILbus. The messages would
be in plain text, so you can figure out what they mean. For example, an
E-meter might send:
V=123.4v I=50.1a A=-100.8ah T=22.5c
You could just plug an RS-232 to EVILbus adapter onto your PC, use any
terminal program to look at the data, and immediately figure out what it
means.
You could program even as simple a micro as a BASIC stamp to look at the
data stream and find what it wants. For example, a charger could look
for the capital "A" to find the amphour data to see whether more
charging is needed.
Collisions are avoided by assigning each sender a timeslot. When a
collision occurs, the loser picks a new time slot.
At least you can find a bigger bunch of engineers who have CAN
experience, or slog through the books and figure it out. And the
future tends to bring faster networks more than slower ones.
Yes, I know. Every standard begins with one installed device, and grows
from there. It started because it was simpler, cheaper, and worked
better in the application than the other standards before it. But over
time, the standard grows in power and sophistication until it becomes so
bloated and byzantine that no new users can figure it out. (And it gets
replaced with the next new standard, and the cycle repeats :-)
My hope is that an EVer who doesn't know either CAN or EVILbus will find
that he can learn and implement EVILbus a lot quicker and more cheaply
than CANbus. It might be an Otmar Ebenhoech building a controller, or
Rich Rudman building a charger. They use it, because they don't have the
time or money to implement CAN. Others buy their controller or charger,
and EVILbus spreads.
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