EV Digest 4707
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: More motors -> More speed?
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Fest-ev-a project update
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Charger wanted
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Fest-ev-a project update
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: Plasma Cutter
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EVILbus
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: More motors -> More speed?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: More motors -> More speed?
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Digital or analog gauges
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Fest-ev-a project update
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Well Guys . . . .
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Well Guys . . . .
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Digital or analog gauges
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: More motors -> More speed?
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Well Guys . . . .
by Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Fest-ev-a project update
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: More motors -> More speed?
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Lee Harts SCR controller solution.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Well Guys....
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) How to Un-subscribe From the EVDL
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Crimping cables!, Getting closer!
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: More motors -> More speed?
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Coax
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Crimping cables!, getting closer!
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: More motors -> More speed?
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Anybody know this outfit?
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Catch the last bus (EV for sale)
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Crimping cables!, getting closer!
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking more along the lines of using the same amount of power,
but distributing it among more motors.
Using Victor's example, I am thinking of a bicycle built for two (Daisy
Daisy)-- my partner and I do half the work each, to achieve the same
speed. Alone, I work up a sweat. Together, we are both just comfortably
warm. Together, we are producing and using the same amount of power, it
is just distributed and finds our cruising sweet-spot-- the amount of
work we need to do together to make the target speed.
Would it not work this way with my two AC55 motors? Say I still draw
100amps, but now it is 50amps each instead of all 100amps by one motor.
I guess I am really trying to understand the relationship between torque
and speed. At rest, my EV needs a surge of torque (and amperage) to
accelerate (overcoming inertia). Once I get my EV going, I need less
torque to maintain speed, don't I?
Peri Hartman wrote:
With Victor's answer, I think he's assuming you wire the motors in series.
However, if you put them in parallel, you would ideally get twice the
power. The main constraint is that the batteries have internal
resistance and the more current you draw from them, the less voltage is
available to the motors.
In a bit more detail: first, you get twice the power because you now
have two motors running ideally at the same voltage as each would have
originally and each ideally draws up to the same amount of current it
would have by itself. Thus, twice the power. The internal resistance
loss causes a voltage drop, or "sag", on the batteries from terminal to
terminal. This can be quite a significant drop. The result is less
voltage to power the motors which means less than double the power
available to the motors.
Just how much voltage drop depends on a number of factors such as the
type of battery and how linear the drop is relative to current. Others
can, and have, talked a lot about this.
Finally, even though you get more power, you may not get more speed. If
you can already reach the max rated speed with a single motor, adding a
second wont make you go faster. However, you will accelerate faster and
climb hills faster.
Peri Hartman
----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, 13 September, 2005 11:19
Subject: Re: More motors -> More speed?
Meta Bus wrote:
Possibly a silly question--
Given the same power (battery pack), would adding another motor make
for higher vehicle speed?
It is sort of like asking if you put two people on the bicycle instrad
of one but each is suppose to pedal with only one leg - is it going to
be any faster that way?
I read here that current gives torque, while voltage gives speed.
With two motors instead of one, I would have the same voltage but
half the current, right? Would than then mean I could reach the same
RPM, but take longer getting there (ie poor acceleration)?
Assuming the same, say 80% overall efficiency (I know, just for the sake
of discussion), 10kW from the battery will get you 8kW on the
motor shaft which moves you. 8kW on the shaft or 4 kW on two shafts,
it is still 8 kW total which moves you.
Look at it this way - two half shafts off the differential can
represent two shafts of separate motors half-power each.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sparky looks good.
When you are done, your web-pages could be an instruction manual for
anyone who wanted to follow your lead.
Keep up the good work!
Stefano Landi wrote:
Hello everyone,
So what do you get when you decide to tackle an electric conversion of a
Ford Festiva on a shoestring budget with a garage full of household grade
tools? Well tired for one thing, a little frustrated and satisfaction that
I'm slowly accomplishing something special. I really am impressed by many of
the people on this list that have access to machine shops and have the
monetary wherewithall to carry out some of the more expensive conversions.
I'd love to be able to have that kind of money, but in my case when I set
about doing this conversion, the household CEO, aka the wife, raised an
eyebrow and asked me how much this would all cost. I had to come up with an
answer pretty quick and told her a figure of about $4,500 CDN. So the
challenge is on, to convert a Ford Festiva to an electric vehicle capable of
getting me to work and back (18 miles) every day convincing both my wife and
my non-believing friends that it can be done. As you will see on my site,
this conversion is fraught with all sorts of problems and as it progresses
it's almost turning into a frame-off restore. Believe me I'm loving every
minute of it. Just thought you would all like to see the progress.
regards,
Stefano
http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll take two!
BB
>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:38:43 +0100
>From: Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>I know they're probably rare second hand, but I'd like to get a PFC-20
>for general purpose charging of the various battery packs and EVs I
>look after. Please contact me off list if you have one for sale.
>
>Thanks
>Evan
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The best of luck Stefano with your conversion but I think you'll have to sneak
in a little more money or solicit some sponsors. I'm also working towards a
conversion and finally put one of my ICE vehicles up for sale to free up more
money, got to thin the herd. I'm on the east end of Toronto and would
be happy
to come out and help you for a day if you need it.
James
Quoting Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Hello everyone,
So what do you get when you decide to tackle an electric conversion of a
Ford Festiva on a shoestring budget with a garage full of household grade
tools? Well tired for one thing, a little frustrated and satisfaction that
I'm slowly accomplishing something special. I really am impressed by many of
the people on this list that have access to machine shops and have the
monetary wherewithall to carry out some of the more expensive conversions.
I'd love to be able to have that kind of money, but in my case when I set
about doing this conversion, the household CEO, aka the wife, raised an
eyebrow and asked me how much this would all cost. I had to come up with an
answer pretty quick and told her a figure of about $4,500 CDN. So the
challenge is on, to convert a Ford Festiva to an electric vehicle capable of
getting me to work and back (18 miles) every day convincing both my wife and
my non-believing friends that it can be done. As you will see on my site,
this conversion is fraught with all sorts of problems and as it progresses
it's almost turning into a frame-off restore. Believe me I'm loving every
minute of it. Just thought you would all like to see the progress.
regards,
Stefano
http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The ESAB is the one with the built in air compressor,
the rest of my machines use shop air with two stages
of air dryer.
Gadget
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 9/13/05 10:17:09 AM Pacific
> Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << I have an ESAB that I won on Monster House,
> that eats a lot of tips but my Miller rarely does.
> I
> bought a 10 pack of tips months ago. the ESAB can
> eat
> those in days.
> end of rant....
> Gadget
> >>
> I repair welders and plasmas every day,if you are
> using lots of tips ect.you
> may not have a good air drier.Dry air is a must for
> consumables to last.Damp
> air can run a plasma tip in 5 minutes or dry air can
> make the same parts last
> an 8hour shift. Dennis
> Berube
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's OK, it was rhetorical question, and 96 cells data acquisition
issue was solved long ago. I was just replying to the sender who
believed 32 nodes will cover his needs. Multiplexing each node
has own issues, and of course I know about these options
and weighted them all with my programmer before deciding how to do it.
Martin Klingensmith wrote:
I would think you could monitor several cells on the same ground level
with one cheap MCU and some comparators or opamps. There are many opamps
that have 40v (or +-20v) inputs.
96 nodes would be hideously expensive, but if you have ~4v per cell you
could fit 8 or 9 into the common-mode input range of an opamp which
could then go into an inexpensive multi-channel 8 bit A/D. Just another
idea..
--
Martin Klingensmith
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Any suggestions from a software guy what do I use to
monitor 96 LiIon cells then?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peri Hartman wrote:
With Victor's answer, I think he's assuming you wire the motors in series.
However, if you put them in parallel, you would ideally get twice the
power. The main constraint is that the batteries have internal
resistance and the more current you draw from them, the less voltage is
available to the motors.
I think assumption is you have only *so much* battery power available,
and the question was does it make sense to divide *it* among 2 motors
or keep feeding one.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What is the ratio of the gearbox?
Gadget
--- Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Possibly a silly question--
>
> Given the same power (battery pack), would adding
> another motor make for
> higher vehicle speed?
>
> I read here that current gives torque, while voltage
> gives speed. With
> two motors instead of one, I would have the same
> voltage but half the
> current, right? Would than then mean I could reach
> the same RPM, but
> take longer getting there (ie poor acceleration)?
>
> I have two Solectria AC55 motors each driving a
> fixed ratio gearbox, one
> to each rear wheel. With the Deka GelTech battery
> pack (288v/100ah) I
> can only achieve 40 MPH currently. Although I can
> achieve other
> efficiencies and maybe reach my 45 MPH goal, I was
> wondering what a 2nd
> axle with two more AC55 motors would achieve for me.
> (The AC55 has a
> "sweet spot" of 2500 RPM, but can max to 8K. I am
> sporting 19.5 tires).
>
> It would be nice to be capable of 60 MPH...
>
> TIA for any advice.
>
>
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: Digital or analog gauges
At 05:59 AM 9/13/2005, Robert Chew wrote:
Thanks heaps for your advice. I do like the idea of at the glance style
led bargraph. Also still tossing up with 20 automotive voltmeters. Again,
shouldn't be a problem because of the easy mounting. Although i plan to
have these meters infront of my gearstick and wouldn't be too good for at
the glance style monitoring. Maybe
Just what do you expect to be able to tell from this big bank of meters?
--Well i think it is pretty obvious. I want to see the individual terminal
voltage of each battery. See whether the charger is correctly charging
all.See whether there is a fault with any of them. Know when equalization of
the battery pack should occur and also measure the internal resistanc of the
battery to satisfy my thesis supervisor. And also it looks cool to have a
million gauges!
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/13/05, Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
Very good!
I had to laugh (sorry) at this bit though:
"The photo below shows the area where the current gas tank resides and
where the future battery pack will sit. I was very happy to see that this
area of the car is very solid and shows little rust damage. This is excellent
as this part of the car will be bearing much of the weight of the batteries."
Won't you be needing to cut out that one good bit of the car next, in
order to get the tall 6v batteries closer to the ground? Just a
thought :)
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congrats on starting your project!
I've only converted a Ford Escort but the motor mounting ideas are
similar, at least a little.
First I would go with option 2 since its simpler.
Once your motor is bolted to the transmission your motor will help keep
the transmission in place like the engine did since your motor mount
will be attached to the trucks frame at some point.
I didn't see an adaptor plate mentioned in your list to attach the
motor to the transmission. Are you making this or does it come with the
parts?
Assuming you have the adaptor plate mounted to the motor and the hub
and pressure plate and clutch all bolted up, bolt the entire motor
assembly to the transmission and support the motor/transmission with a
hydraulic floor jack, under the motor.
With the hydraulic floor jack you can adjust the forward height of the
assembly so you can design and build the support that will hold the
motor/transmission assembly in place.
It's actually good to take stock measurements before taking everything
out. But it sounds like everything is out except the transmission, but
the transmission may have shifted when the engine was pulled. I haven't
done a truck but you may want to make sure you have the transmission
set at about the same height it was when the engine was still in so you
have the correct geometry of the differential to the transmission. You
can probably find a similar S-10 and take measurements. The universal
joint should account for any differences but its always good to keep
things at stock measurements.
For the motor you may want to consider bolting a torque bar or rod from
the face of the motor to the truck's frame to prevent torque from
twisting the motor. With all that you should have a solid installation.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
EVA/DC
http://www.evadc.org
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:08:31 PM US/Eastern
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Well Guys....
Im well on my way....to update anyone who gives two cents here is what i
have done so far :))
1997 Chevy S10 with the Ice and all components out
Body is of\f as we are building the boxes under it.
We are building the battery boxes next week as i have to wait on a
friend
thats a good welder.
Items on the way or here for my 144vlt system
Warp9 Motor
Zilla1k lv controller
Tranmission Kit
Clutch and pressure plate
Zivan Ng3 220vlt charger
Iota 55amp for dc dc
12vlt vacuumm pump for brakes
25ft of red 2/0 cable
25ft of black 2/0 cable
Motor mount for warp9
Albright sw200 contactor
500am maine fuse and block
400am Main breaker
ammeter
voltermeter
Shunt
Misc cable boots, and connectors
Im soooooooooo ready to try and put her all together and cant wait for
everything to arrive. The motor should be here by weeks end and the
motor
mount and tranny kit are already here.
One thing i was curious about, the tranny is still in the truck and
there
seems to be two prevailing ways to attack putting the motor in.
1. Take the tranny out, assemble everything together and put it all
back in
as one unit.
2. Leave the tranny in and asseemble everything to the motor and install
this way as there is plenty of room
As my tranny is still in, i was curious what everyone else thought
about the
tranny in or our issue. And my last question is the tranny really
doesnt
have anything else holding it much in place other than the Ice engine
that
was in it, will the same hold true with the Warp9 or do you guys
recommend
another way to safely hold the transmission into place.
Thanks everyone your making my dream come true....
Cwarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chip,
Sorry, yes i forgot to mention the adapter plate. Yes thats in my
possession now as well so right now im waiting for the motor to arrive
so i can start. I feel like a kid in a candy store at this point hahahaha..
Cwarman
Chip Gribben wrote:
Congrats on starting your project!
I've only converted a Ford Escort but the motor mounting ideas are
similar, at least a little.
First I would go with option 2 since its simpler.
Once your motor is bolted to the transmission your motor will help
keep the transmission in place like the engine did since your motor
mount will be attached to the trucks frame at some point.
I didn't see an adaptor plate mentioned in your list to attach the
motor to the transmission. Are you making this or does it come with
the parts?
Assuming you have the adaptor plate mounted to the motor and the hub
and pressure plate and clutch all bolted up, bolt the entire motor
assembly to the transmission and support the motor/transmission with a
hydraulic floor jack, under the motor.
With the hydraulic floor jack you can adjust the forward height of the
assembly so you can design and build the support that will hold the
motor/transmission assembly in place.
It's actually good to take stock measurements before taking everything
out. But it sounds like everything is out except the transmission, but
the transmission may have shifted when the engine was pulled. I
haven't done a truck but you may want to make sure you have the
transmission set at about the same height it was when the engine was
still in so you have the correct geometry of the differential to the
transmission. You can probably find a similar S-10 and take
measurements. The universal joint should account for any differences
but its always good to keep things at stock measurements.
For the motor you may want to consider bolting a torque bar or rod
from the face of the motor to the truck's frame to prevent torque from
twisting the motor. With all that you should have a solid installation.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
EVA/DC
http://www.evadc.org
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:08:31 PM US/Eastern
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Well Guys....
Im well on my way....to update anyone who gives two cents here is what i
have done so far :))
1997 Chevy S10 with the Ice and all components out
Body is of\f as we are building the boxes under it.
We are building the battery boxes next week as i have to wait on a friend
thats a good welder.
Items on the way or here for my 144vlt system
Warp9 Motor
Zilla1k lv controller
Tranmission Kit
Clutch and pressure plate
Zivan Ng3 220vlt charger
Iota 55amp for dc dc
12vlt vacuumm pump for brakes
25ft of red 2/0 cable
25ft of black 2/0 cable
Motor mount for warp9
Albright sw200 contactor
500am maine fuse and block
400am Main breaker
ammeter
voltermeter
Shunt
Misc cable boots, and connectors
Im soooooooooo ready to try and put her all together and cant wait for
everything to arrive. The motor should be here by weeks end and the motor
mount and tranny kit are already here.
One thing i was curious about, the tranny is still in the truck and there
seems to be two prevailing ways to attack putting the motor in.
1. Take the tranny out, assemble everything together and put it all
back in
as one unit.
2. Leave the tranny in and asseemble everything to the motor and install
this way as there is plenty of room
As my tranny is still in, i was curious what everyone else thought
about the
tranny in or our issue. And my last question is the tranny really doesnt
have anything else holding it much in place other than the Ice engine
that
was in it, will the same hold true with the Warp9 or do you guys
recommend
another way to safely hold the transmission into place.
Thanks everyone your making my dream come true....
Cwarman
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robert Chew wrote:
>>
> --Well i think it is pretty obvious. I want to see the individual
> terminal voltage of each battery. See whether the charger is correctly
> charging all.See whether there is a fault with any of them. Know when
> equalization of the battery pack should occur and also measure the
> internal resistanc of the battery to satisfy my thesis supervisor. And
> also it looks cool to have a million gauges!
Why not have a rotary switch and a set of relays to switch between
different batteries?
20 gages is ridiculous IMO.
--
Martin Klingensmith
http://wwia.org/
http://nnytech.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The motors are directly connected to 1.4:1 reduction hubs.
Reverend Gadget wrote:
What is the ratio of the gearbox?
Gadget
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cwarman wrote:
I feel like a kid in a candy store at this point hahahaha..
how long before hahahaha becomes hair-pulling maniacal cackle or
worse... soft, quiet little hmhm hmhm hmhm right before the killing
spree? ;)
A
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, Stefano, for sharing your story. I'm sure all of us wish your
project
succeeds. Please plan to continue sharing your story as your conversion
proceeds.
I'm concerned about rust which you mention several times. You shouldn't
try converting a vehicle with more than very minor rust problems. Get
another car if yours has severe rust. Confront your rust problems early so
you can decide whether to keep your car or get another before investing much
money or time.
$4500 Cdn isn't nearly enough money to do a good conversion even if you
have or can get most of the expensive parts like motor and controller used.
Plan to spend at least twice that much.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefano Landi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:23 PM
Subject: Fest-ev-a project update
Hello everyone,
So what do you get when you decide to tackle an electric conversion of a
Ford Festiva on a shoestring budget with a garage full of household grade
tools? Well tired for one thing, a little frustrated and satisfaction that
I'm slowly accomplishing something special. I really am impressed by many
of
the people on this list that have access to machine shops and have the
monetary wherewithall to carry out some of the more expensive conversions.
I'd love to be able to have that kind of money, but in my case when I set
about doing this conversion, the household CEO, aka the wife, raised an
eyebrow and asked me how much this would all cost. I had to come up with
an
answer pretty quick and told her a figure of about $4,500 CDN. So the
challenge is on, to convert a Ford Festiva to an electric vehicle capable
of
getting me to work and back (18 miles) every day convincing both my wife
and
my non-believing friends that it can be done. As you will see on my site,
this conversion is fraught with all sorts of problems and as it progresses
it's almost turning into a frame-off restore. Believe me I'm loving every
minute of it. Just thought you would all like to see the progress.
regards,
Stefano
http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops, I forgot the 10:1 AT1200 gearbox.
Meta Bus wrote:
The motors are directly connected to 1.4:1 reduction hubs.
Reverend Gadget wrote:
What is the ratio of the gearbox?
Gadget
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was at my favorite surplus supply Excess Solutions when I saw some high
voltage capacitors. 150vdc 440uf. I bought ten just based on the size of
the screw. Then I read the email and saw 50 might be needed. These are the
silver ones General Electric 92F311AMMA,
440UF - 10+50%, 150vdc 200 surge, 85C Max Ambient. I got 10 of these.
Should I put them all on the positive or negative side or split them on each
leg? Do I have enough? Or is this over kill. Each is 1 3/8" x 3 1/8" long.
Three bucks each. LR>............
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I have an SCR based controller in the Electravan that switches
at 1500 hz with inadequate filtering on the battery side.
Is it possible that the battery sees high current pulses and
behaves more like it is discharging at 1000 amps than 100 and
consequently has much less capacity.
Yes, it is possible; even probable. You can measure the battery ripple
current with a multimeter. Measure across your battery current shunt, or
pick two spots along one of the wires from your batteries to the
controller. For example, the positive terminal of the battery and the
other end of that wire that connects to the controller. The voltage drop
in this wire is proportional to current.
Connect wires from these points to your multimeter, and go for a drive.
While cruising at some constant speed, measure the DC voltage and the AC
voltage. Their ratio is the percent ripple current. If the AC voltage is
more than about 10% of the DC voltage, then your batteries would benefit
from the addition of filter capacitors.
These old SCR controllers usually didn't have a large input filter
capacitor bank. There were several reasons.
First, they expected them to be used with huge forklift batteries, which
already have lots of capacitance (a "mere" 1000 amp load for these
batteries isn't a high rate :-) They may not have been aware that lack
of capacitors would be a problem for lower-capacity higher-resistance
batteries.
Or they knew, but were concerned about the reliability of electrolytic
capacitors. Modern electrolytics are merely bad -- back then they were
even worse! Note that a 20-year-old SCR controller still works; if they
had used electrolytics, it wouldn't!
Or, they knew and just wanted to save money.
You can add the filter capacitors yourself. You need to connect them as
close to the controller's input as you can, with as short and heavy a
wire as possible.
We don't have enough data to calculate a value, but it's going to take
thousands of microfarads. If it were me, I'd look for some surplus
electrolytics intended for switching power supply filtering, and put in
1,000uf worth. Measure your ripple current again, and see how much it
dropped. Then you can guess how much more it will take.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I have a 120v 20 battery pack. Weighs 1400 pounds. Lee recommended
1000uf and check again. What is the problem of putting in a few
thousand?
No direct harm; the more, the merrier.
However, the goal here is to reduce the battery ripple current. With
perfect zero-resistance capacitors, 1000uF is plenty because almost all
the controller's ripple current will then flow in the capacitors, not
the batteries.
However, real capacitors also have resistance, called ESR on the data
sheets (Equivalent Series Resistance). Capacitor ESR diverts ripple
current back to the batteries. ESR also produces heat, making the
capacitors get hot. It ultimately determines the maximum ripple current
that the capacitor can stand without overheating.
So, your goal is a capacitor with:
a. At least 1000uF of capacitance.
b. An ESR at least as low as your batteries ESR.
For example, an Optima has an ESR of about 0.003 ohms.
A pack of 10 has a total ESR of 10x0.003 = 0.03 ohms.
Add 20 connections at 0.001 ohm each = 0.05 ohms total.
So you want a capacitor with an ESR of 0.05 ohms or less.
c. A ripple current rating of at least 1/4th your motor current.
400 amp motor current means the controller is switching between
0 and 400, which is +/-200 amps peak AC ripple, which is about
100 amps RMS.
What you'll find is that its easy to find a 1000uF electrolytic
capacitor; but its ESR will be 1 ohm and its ripple current rating is
only 5 amps. Just one provides the capacitance, but you'd need 20 of
them in parallel to satisfy the ESR and ripple current requirements.
This is what you see in many controllers; a large number of cheaper
electrolytics, with far more capacitance than needed just to get the
ripple and ESR ratings.
Or, oil-filled paper or polypropylene film capacitors can easily meet
the ESR and ripple current requirements; but their capacitance is low. A
big metal can oil-filled capacitor can have 20uF of capacitance, 0.1 ohm
ESR, and a 25-amp ripple current rating. You'd need only 4 of them for
ESR and ripple, but 50 to get the capacitance. These capacitors would be
a lot larger and more expensive than electrolytics. So what you see in
some controllers are a smaller number of electrolytics (just to get the
capacitance), in parallel with a smaller number of oil or film
capacitors (to get the ESR and ripple ratings).
That's why I suggested that you experiment.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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If you can fit two more batteries why not max out the voltage? LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 10:08 AM
Subject: Well Guys....
Im well on my way....to update anyone who gives two cents here is what i
have done so far :))
1997 Chevy S10 with the Ice and all components out
Body is of\f as we are building the boxes under it.
We are building the battery boxes next week as i have to wait on a friend
thats a good welder.
Items on the way or here for my 144vlt system
Warp9 Motor
Zilla1k lv controller
Tranmission Kit
Clutch and pressure plate
Zivan Ng3 220vlt charger
Iota 55amp for dc dc
12vlt vacuumm pump for brakes
25ft of red 2/0 cable
25ft of black 2/0 cable
Motor mount for warp9
Albright sw200 contactor
500am maine fuse and block
400am Main breaker
ammeter
voltermeter
Shunt
Misc cable boots, and connectors
Im soooooooooo ready to try and put her all together and cant wait for
everything to arrive. The motor should be here by weeks end and the motor
mount and tranny kit are already here.
One thing i was curious about, the tranny is still in the truck and there
seems to be two prevailing ways to attack putting the motor in.
1. Take the tranny out, assemble everything together and put it all back
in
as one unit.
2. Leave the tranny in and asseemble everything to the motor and install
this way as there is plenty of room
As my tranny is still in, i was curious what everyone else thought about
the
tranny in or our issue. And my last question is the tranny really doesnt
have anything else holding it much in place other than the Ice engine that
was in it, will the same hold true with the Warp9 or do you guys recommend
another way to safely hold the transmission into place.
Thanks everyone your making my dream come true....
Cwarman
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Send the following email message:
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--- Begin Message ---
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=35776
Is the one I bought, the other ones were all broken, someone dropped a case on
the corner I guess.
I've use the little defletors before and they help, but this tubing is unlike
any I have shrank before, Maybe since it has to melt the sealant inside it
takes more heat to shrink it.
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Okay, now I think I've got it figured out. My reverse engineering and
component identification was faulty.
I have a 12:1 gearbox, and a 1.4:1 reduction hub, providing an overall
16.8:1 ratio. With my AC55 redlined to its 8000 RPM max, and my 265/70R
19.5 tires (an approximate 104" rolling circumference) gives me a
theoretical top speed of 45 MPH. For that, I need to push 312v, and my
288v gives me the current actual top speed of 40 MPH.
So, one relatively minor change I could make is to replace the reduction
hubs with 1:1, reducing my overall ratio to 12:1, giving up low-speed
torque for a potential high speed of 65 MPH.
Though I'll be slower out of the starting gate...
Meta Bus wrote:
Oops, I forgot the 10:1 AT1200 gearbox.
Meta Bus wrote:
The motors are directly connected to 1.4:1 reduction hubs.
Reverend Gadget wrote:
What is the ratio of the gearbox?
Gadget
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When I use to do some cableing, I remember running into a situation
where networks would have lots of errors and quit working due to noise
form power wires and extension cords. This usually was where extra coax
cable was coiled or bent sharply near a power cord (also coiled up and
thrown behind a desk or in a closet ). It was explained to me at the
time that the braid of the coax opens up when bent and allows
interferance to find it's way in. The better coax had a foil sheath
instead of the braid.
I never new for sure how accurate this was, but moving the extra coax
away from the power cords fixed the problem.
I like the idea of fiber optic. The use it in injection molding machines
from the clamp position transducers to the computer.
Never was there a more hostile environment than a hydraulicly powered
machine that is manually greased living in an environment of vacuum
loaded regrond plastic with glass fibers in it. and 2 to 200 Hp 3phase
motors in cyclic loading. The interference can sometimes drown out the
interference from the EDM in the next room.
It is great from point to point but hard to imagine connecting 25
regulators via fiber.
Earlier I heard mention of Arcnet and how it is still around(devicenet
is industrial version?) Correct me if I am wrong but it's popularity in
control systems is because it is not collision based. It is token based
and, athought slower, has a predictable and guarenteed latency.
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I use a propane torch all the time for heat shrink. I just didn't want
to singe any after the crimp( I have about $4 in it at that point. I
also didn't want my eybrows used to deterime if that glue has a flash point!
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I've spent quite a bit of time plotting and planning how to put
two motors in a pickup like the Ranger. The main problem
with using two motors is that this solves the wrong problem.
A pickup needs more battery capacity much more than it needs
more motor capacity. The added motor capacity is of limited
use without battery capacity.
Using two motors is drag racing stuff which John Wayland's
recent success demonstrates.
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--- Begin Message ---
The San Francisco Electric Vehicle Association had a
booth at the Sierra Club's convention last weekend,
after which I got the email below about an EV
conversion business.
Anybody know these folks? I'm skeptical of the claim
that they get 125 miles on lead acid batteries. I
haven't called him yet.
thanks,
Sherry
--- morgan tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: "morgan tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: our plug in EV
> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:03:04 -0700
>
> Sherry:
>
> got your EVA information from your partners, they
> shown a battery car in the downtown last weeken.
> introduce ourselfves, we are company in EV
> experiment and production years.
> our EVs take regular car bodies, chassis, but it is
> no engine, no cooling system, no gas tank.
> we add our lead acid batteries, motor and other
> parts on.
> our first EV came out in the year 2000. this EV
> still is the good condition.
> Our EV run 125 miles in single charge, cost about
> $1.00 on the electrcity( 14 difference in the meter
> ) in this 125 miles range.
> when we make an option to, add a small generator(
> when it is running, the generator continue to charge
> the batteries).
> it ran up to the range in 310 miles.
>
> do your group like with me to build these plug in E
> vehicles?
> we can build them like the NEV models or like the
> gasoline cars run on the freeway.
> Our EV speed can go up to 70 miles per hour.
>
> not much money to build our EV, about $6,500 can
> make a 4-6 passenger seats EV.
>
> we have our site: www.fevehicle.com
>
>
> Morgan
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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FYI--
There is one last hybrid-electric bus going into its last day of auction
on eBay--
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4574213708
Or if the link is broken, search for "Broward" in eBay Motors.
This is the last of eight hybrid-electric buses that were auctioned off
by Broward county. I bought mine early, non-operational, and am in the
process of bringing it back to life. The current auction is for a bus
that actually still runs, per the seller (although it is missing its
APU, the Capstone microturbine).
These buses were orphaned when the Chattanooga company that made them
went out of business (theirs was a sad story of support failure, shoddy
production, unrealistic fleet expectations, and reduced emissions
standards which made EV fleets less appealing):-(
They do have tons of Solectria stuff, with dual AC55's, UMOC445TF
controller, 24 Deka GelTech batteries (dead, most likely), DC-DC
converter, etc.
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--- Begin Message ---
These guys are in my neck of the woods http://www.midterminc.com/
He has a good line of cad plated copper battery post ends, but a poor
selection of the lugs.
Nice people, Prices were good for a local place. My "anderson like"
350Amp plugs were about $16.00, for example
I read somewhere about it (I think from a post from victor ?) I
remember deciding yes, but can't put my finger on the details. It may of
come out of that discussion a while back of solder vs not.
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