EV Digest 4708
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Catch the last bus (EV for sale)
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: More motors -> More speed?
by Keith Richtman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EVILbus
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Catch the last bus (EV for sale) - and EV BBQ
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: NEDRA Records for 2005
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) More motors -> more hp? (was "Re: More motors -> More speed?")
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: More motors -> more hp? (was "Re: More motors -> More
speed?")
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Anybody know this outfit?
by David Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) LSD Tripping in my REV (was: More motors -> More speed?)
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Solectria E-10 queations
by Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Fest-ev-a project update
by Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Digital or analog gauges
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: What charger to use?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Solectria Charger Question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: What charger to use?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Catch the last bus (EV for sale) - and EV BBQ
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: LSD Tripping in my REV (was: More motors -> More speed?)
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: LSD Tripping in my REV (was: More motors -> More speed?)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: LSD Tripping in my REV
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: PFC Ground and Pack Negative (was RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PF)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the
modern world.
by "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Fluke Digital Multimeters
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the
modern world.
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Fluke Digital Multimeters
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: FS: 9 Evercel M100s plus chargers
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the
modern world.
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Paralleling and seriesing variac's, controllers and simular devices.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Fluke Digital Multimeters
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:08 PM 9/13/2005, you wrote:
There is one last hybrid-electric bus going into its last day of auction
on eBay--
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4574213708
Heck, I'd be willing to pay that much for it.
The problem is getting it. Shipping would be more than the purchase
price! (You can't get much further away from it than I am. WA.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe I missed it (and can't find it in my archive), but what is your EV
Meta Bus?
Keith
Meta Bus wrote:
<snip stuff about AC55 motors and other cool Solectria parts>
my EV
>
> <snip>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The EVil bus bridge.
Lee has yet to release this invaluable piece of equipment that will
allow communication between 2 evil buss nodes without excessive buss
loading.
Seriously, could't one of the evil bus nodes simply be used to bridge to
another evil bus by connecting the Tx to the Rx and Vicea-versa?
Thus victor would have 3-31 bit nodes bridged to a 4th bus that had the
last 6, the display, etc,etc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is close to Neon John.
Maybe he could pick one up and use it as a rolling
BBQ?
Ribs in the back, wings on the side and he's got a
rolling EV BBQ restaurant :-).
I don't have room for a bus in my neighborhood, but I
sure would like some of the parts on this bus.
Rod
--- Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> FYI--
>
> There is one last hybrid-electric bus going into its
> last day of auction
> on eBay--
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4574213708
>
> Or if the link is broken, search for "Broward" in
> eBay Motors.
>
> This is the last of eight hybrid-electric buses that
> were auctioned off
> by Broward county. I bought mine early,
> non-operational, and am in the
> process of bringing it back to life. The current
> auction is for a bus
> that actually still runs, per the seller (although
> it is missing its
> APU, the Capstone microturbine).
>
> These buses were orphaned when the Chattanooga
> company that made them
> went out of business (theirs was a sad story of
> support failure, shoddy
> production, unrealistic fleet expectations, and
> reduced emissions
> standards which made EV fleets less appealing):-(
>
> They do have tons of Solectria stuff, with dual
> AC55's, UMOC445TF
> controller, 24 Deka GelTech batteries (dead, most
> likely), DC-DC
> converter, etc.
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Brian D.Hall wrote:
new records posted this year:
SC/A 1972 Datsun "White Zombie" 336v
Sponsor:Hawker Aero Batteries
Driver: Tim Brehm
Owner: John Wayland -Portland 12.598 103.92 Woodburn Nationals
September 5, 2005
Brian, a friendly correction.....White Zombie has 29, 12V Hawker 26 ahr
Aerobatteries in series that makes up its 348V pack, not 336V as is
listed. The ET and speed are correct, thank you.
See Ya.....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On the other hand, if all one could promote were a couple of golfcart
motors, would it be good to run them nose-to-nose (or on two belts to the
same driveshaft) in order to double the horsepower for a very light EV?
Three?
Are there problems with their being mismatched - would the slightly faster
one tear up the other? Or, if you had one on each wheel, would you start to
turn?
(Note: in a few weeks or months, there may be a LOT of used golf cart motors
available in Louisiana - would they be worth anything?)
-Tim
EVer Wannabe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: More motors -> More speed?
> I've spent quite a bit of time plotting and planning how to put
> two motors in a pickup like the Ranger. The main problem
> with using two motors is that this solves the wrong problem.
> A pickup needs more battery capacity much more than it needs
> more motor capacity. The added motor capacity is of limited
> use without battery capacity.
>
> Using two motors is drag racing stuff which John Wayland's
> recent success demonstrates.
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 9/10/05
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:33 PM 9/13/2005, you wrote:
(Note: in a few weeks or months, there may be a LOT of used golf cart motors
available in Louisiana - would they be worth anything?)
I would bet that nobody will take the time to scrap them properly. Most
likely just bulldozed into a big landfill....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've never heard of them, but perusing their website I can say that
all the pictures were taken in Mainland China. The pictures they show
of the batteries look to me like Thundersky's Lithium batteries, not
lead-acid. I also think I've seen the bus pictures before - I got to
them from the Thundersky site somehow. Whether they are legit or not
I can't say but seems they want to figure out how to import ev's from
china into the us.
David
On Sep 13, 2005, at 4:53 PM, Sherry Boschert wrote:
The San Francisco Electric Vehicle Association had a
booth at the Sierra Club's convention last weekend,
after which I got the email below about an EV
conversion business.
Anybody know these folks? I'm skeptical of the claim
that they get 125 miles on lead acid batteries. I
haven't called him yet.
thanks,
Sherry
--- morgan tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: "morgan tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: our plug in EV
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:03:04 -0700
Sherry:
got your EVA information from your partners, they
shown a battery car in the downtown last weeken.
introduce ourselfves, we are company in EV
experiment and production years.
our EVs take regular car bodies, chassis, but it is
no engine, no cooling system, no gas tank.
we add our lead acid batteries, motor and other
parts on.
our first EV came out in the year 2000. this EV
still is the good condition.
Our EV run 125 miles in single charge, cost about
$1.00 on the electrcity( 14 difference in the meter
) in this 125 miles range.
when we make an option to, add a small generator(
when it is running, the generator continue to charge
the batteries).
it ran up to the range in 310 miles.
do your group like with me to build these plug in E
vehicles?
we can build them like the NEV models or like the
gasoline cars run on the freeway.
Our EV speed can go up to 70 miles per hour.
not much money to build our EV, about $6,500 can
make a 4-6 passenger seats EV.
we have our site: www.fevehicle.com
Morgan
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Keith,
My EV is the aforementioned now-defunct-AVS 22'7" hybrid-electric
shuttle bus. Mostly Solectria stuff. See my fledgling site:
http://www.metabus.org
My plan is to convert it into a solar-charged recreational EV. I have a
one-year re-engineering plan which has me spending my money on solar
panels for the roof (14 Sanyo 190-watt HIT modules) and ultracaps for
terrain (120 Maxwell BCAP350's). The bus already sports a Capstone
microturbine as an APU, but I am hoping to keep that (reconfigured) as
an emergency generator, which I hope to never need.
The plan is to drive my REV across the country, taking my time, using
only the sun to recharge. RV's are made for this application, as is
semi-retirement. I'll drive an hour, at highway speeds, and find another
place to stay for a few days. I have enough roof space to give me about
8 amps per hour (at 300v), average 5 hours of insolation-- should just
make my 10% charge acceptance rate, and giving me about 20 miles per
day, with 60% DOD, and a lot of time and patience.
I call this plan my LSD trip :-) where LSD is a long-slow-distance. I
have a lot of work to do-- I am not sure my bus would make it over the
Rockies as it is today. When I embark, though, I will be embarking on a
sun-powered adventure. By my calculations, it will take me a year to
make the round-trip, Florida to Northern California.
Of course, you know what that say-- "If you want to make God laugh..."
Keith Richtman wrote:
Maybe I missed it (and can't find it in my archive), but what is your EV
Meta Bus?
Keith
Meta Bus wrote:
<snip stuff about AC55 motors and other cool Solectria parts>
my EV
>
> <snip>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've got a bew battery pack in, and my top speed is 40mph on my '96 E-10.
Any suggestions?
Also does any one know how far discharge a battery pack needs to go down
before a Brusa/Solectria 3300 charger kicks in. I've burned 6 Ahrs and the
green "charging is complete" lite is on when I connect my ext.cord.
Thanks..Jacob Harris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tom,
Yes I'm a bit concerned as well, but I really don't have the money to get
anything better so I'm hoping to repair what needs to be repaired and see
what happens. In my case I think this project won't be ultimately the EV in
the end, but the process by which I get there. A little bit like a T-shirt a
friend of mine once sent me with the saying "Life is not journey, not a
guided tour." I'm hoping to have some fun with the car of course, but if I
end up selling it or worst removing all the EV parts in a few years and
having to scrap it so be it, I'm looking at this as a huge learning
experience, EV school as it were. The main concerns for me rust wise were
the shock mounts and the main frame rails. Both of these items seem to be
pretty solid in my glider so I've chosen to continue. I payed $350 Cdn for
the donor car so it wasn't a huge investment. So far I'm having a blast
taking everything apart as it's one big meccano set for me. I used to tinker
alot with cars, but since buying newer vehicles with on-board computer
engine management systems I really haven't been able to toy around. This
project gives me a great opportunity to learn everything from fabricating
battery boxes, to wiring, to making motor mounts and the list goes on, what
an experience. Again, yes I would love it if my EV was very functional or
even just moderately so, but it's the process that I'm living right now.
As for the amount I'm spending, well it's not much, but it was either not do
it or do it for this amount. Again, my expectations are rather low really
and I'm taking a, "let's build it and see" attitude so even if it isn't a
100% success, I'll be happy knowing I did it instead of wondering for
another 12 years, which by the way is how long I've been wanting to do this.
thanks for the interest and stay tuned as more fun stuff is on its way.
Stefano
On 9/13/05, Tom Shay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Stefano, for sharing your story. I'm sure all of us wish your
> project
> succeeds. Please plan to continue sharing your story as your conversion
> proceeds.
>
> I'm concerned about rust which you mention several times. You shouldn't
> try converting a vehicle with more than very minor rust problems. Get
> another car if yours has severe rust. Confront your rust problems early so
> you can decide whether to keep your car or get another before investing
> much
> money or time.
>
> $4500 Cdn isn't nearly enough money to do a good conversion even if you
> have or can get most of the expensive parts like motor and controller
> used.
> Plan to spend at least twice that much.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stefano Landi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:23 PM
> Subject: Fest-ev-a project update
>
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > So what do you get when you decide to tackle an electric conversion of a
> > Ford Festiva on a shoestring budget with a garage full of household
> grade
> > tools? Well tired for one thing, a little frustrated and satisfaction
> that
> > I'm slowly accomplishing something special. I really am impressed by
> many
> > of
> > the people on this list that have access to machine shops and have the
> > monetary wherewithall to carry out some of the more expensive
> conversions.
> > I'd love to be able to have that kind of money, but in my case when I
> set
> > about doing this conversion, the household CEO, aka the wife, raised an
> > eyebrow and asked me how much this would all cost. I had to come up with
> > an
> > answer pretty quick and told her a figure of about $4,500 CDN. So the
> > challenge is on, to convert a Ford Festiva to an electric vehicle
> capable
> > of
> > getting me to work and back (18 miles) every day convincing both my wife
> > and
> > my non-believing friends that it can be done. As you will see on my
> site,
> > this conversion is fraught with all sorts of problems and as it
> progresses
> > it's almost turning into a frame-off restore. Believe me I'm loving
> every
> > minute of it. Just thought you would all like to see the progress.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Stefano
> > http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robert Chew wrote:
> Yeah the digital bar graph is the one I was very interested in.
> It's in kit form, for about 15 aussie dollars and has red yellow
> green.
Get one of these kits to take a closer look before you decide. I bought
one that is commonly advertised and sold by many suppliers (Jameco,
Marlin P. Jones, etc.). It gets different names depending on the vendor,
but is recognizable by having seven LEDs (red, yellow, green) and two IC
chips. The two chips are LM324 quad opamps. One opamp is unused; the
other 7 implement the bargraph display.
This particular kit is very cheap and poorly designed. It comes with
ordinary 5% resistors, and uses a pair of forward-biased diodes as its
'reference'. Accuracy is poor and it drifts with temperature. The
display is a growing bar, so 1 to 7 LEDs are lit depending on the
voltage. This method causes a high power consumption; 10-70 ma (a lot
for a battery monitor).
If anyone's interested, I did a lot of playing with one and changed the
circuit significantly. I expanded it to 9 LEDs, still using the two
LM324s. I rewired it to have a moving-dot display (only one LED on at a
time) to cut power to 10ma max. I fixed the temperature stability
problem with a better reference.
The LM3914 is a single chip that does this job with far fewer
components. If you can find a kit that uses it, you may be better off.
However, it costs a lot more than two LM324s, and draws about 5ma more
current than the two LM324s.
--
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
-- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> A series charger that has a transformer or a voltage regulated
> source... can't hold a regulated power or current level. At low
> battery voltages compared to the peak of the charger, you will
> have a really large current, and some chargers will fail trying
> to make the big amps...
>
> But a 132 volt transformer based... like a ZIVAN.... can't do
> 156 volt work. And it has a low voltage cutout that keeps it
> from doing less than about 96 volts.
Rich, take off your Marketing hat (it makes you look like Napoleon :-)
and put the Engineer's cap back on.
Of course a transformer-rectifier charger can have a constant current
"bulk" mode and a constant-voltage "finish" mode. That's how all
chargers with constant-voltage transformers work (Lesters, Bycans, and
most golf cart and industrial chargers).
This style of transformer isn't hurt by low battery voltages -- it just
current limits. You can even short the output without hurting it. And
variations in the AC line voltage don't change the output voltage or
current -- they are regulated by the transformer's action.
Of course you can adjust them for other voltages; you do it by changing
taps.
If you want to talk about transformer-isolated switchmode chargers, then
the topology (circuit) they use determines their voltage and current
adjustment range. Some topologies (like the forward converter) have a
rather narrow output voltage range. Others (like the flyback) have an
extremely large range.
--
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
-- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> It is not quite how it works. There is a reliability issue of NLG4
> working at 110V load because of thermal problem for some components,
> it is not inherent to the design.
>
> The front stage is a boost converter taking whatever input is
> available and providing internal high voltage bus for isolated
> buck converter that follows.
I don't have any specific information on the NLG4, but boost converters
in general have more heat problems as the boost voltage gets larger. As
the input voltage drops, the boost converter tries to maintain the same
output voltage. This requires that the input current go up. The higher
input current causes more heat, stressing the parts more.
If the manufacturer expects the converter to be used on both 120vac and
240vac, he needs to use bigger, higher-power, more expensive parts.
Often, they don't. Such a supply usually work on half voltage, but will
fail early.
Sometimes, the designer has the circuit check the input supply voltage,
and adjust its power output accordingly. It might deliver 1000w at
240vac, but only 250w at 120vac (because half voltage means half
current, so half power). It turns out that even with this 4:1 power
cutback, the stress on some of the components is still higher at 120vac
than 240vac due to the much larger step-up ratio required.
For example, I had one supply with this 1/4-power at 1/2-voltage feature
that died. It turned out that the resistor in the snubber circuit ran
much hotter at 120vac and so failed. When it opened, the transistor lost
its voltage transient protection, so it failed as well.
--
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
-- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Ward wrote:
> Does it really matter what kind of series charger you use if you
> have the regulators? I mean, outside of the current capacity, etc.
> Most I have seen will run at a high current, level off at a lower
> current, and then go into a trickle mode. Most everything being
> offered these days outside the old "brute force" types have a
> microprocessor.
Let's be very clear. Charging a battery is no harder than filling a
bucket of water. When the bucket is mostly empty, you can fill it any
old way you like; with a trickle or a firehose, all at once or in little
bursts. The battery basically doesn't care. The current just controls
how long it will take to charge.
But once you get 80% or so of the way full, you have to be more careful.
This is where all the finesse lies. It's like filling a bucket that is
already almost full -- you have to be careful not to put water in too
quickly or it will splash out and make a mess.
The difference between a cheap stupid charger and a expensive smart one
lies in what it does during the last 20% or so of the charge cycle.
Almost all consumer product chargers slow down their charging rate as
the battery approaches full; but they don't actually measure or regulate
just how full the battery really is. The assumption is that the consumer
wants the battery "as full as possible", so the charger keeps right on
trickling current in until the battery is overflowing.
This is called "overcharging". It's good for high amphour capacity, but
bad for battery life. Chronic overcharging damages the battery, a little
bit on every charge cycle, until it dies an early death.
You can add smarts to any stupid charger. It can be your own brain;
simply check the battery state of charge yourself, and manually stop the
charger when it is full. I have lots of consumer products that came with
cheap chargers, but the batteries have lasted 5-10 years; far longer
than normal. How? Because I don't leave the product in the charger all
the time! Only "just enough" so it stays charged but not overcharged.
You can do this on your EV, too. You can use a totally unregulated "bad
boy" charger, but manually shut it off when the batteries are full.
Better, use a timer to automatically turn it off (because sooner or
later you will forget)! But you will have to be careful to figure out
just how long to set that timer so it turns off at the right time.
That's hard for a beginner to do.
Even better yet, use something to monitor the battery state of charge,
and automatically turn off the charger when it reaches full. This could
be a voltage-sensing relay (which estimates state of charge from battery
voltage); or better, an E-meter (which is counting amphours).
Still better is some circuit that monitors each battery individually,
like the Rudman regulators or my zener-lamp regulators. When any of them
indicates the battery is full, shut off the charger.
Finally, you can buy a fancy charger that has this kind of feedback and
intelligence built-in.
People can make charging as complicated as they like; but the above are
the basics.
--
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
-- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:28:45 -0700 (PDT), Rod Hower
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>This is close to Neon John.
>Maybe he could pick one up and use it as a rolling
>BBQ?
>Ribs in the back, wings on the side and he's got a
>rolling EV BBQ restaurant :-).
>I don't have room for a bus in my neighborhood, but I
>sure would like some of the parts on this bus.
>Rod
:-)
If I didn't have so many things going right now.... That would make
one Yell of a catering wagon :-) maybe I could put a little steam
coil in the pit and power the bus from wood?......
That guy who's been selling off AVS bus parts on EBAY is located just
about 5 miles away. He has a whole line of bare chasses that he
probably cleaned out of the AVS site when they auctioned the land.
Lots of other parts too, so I hear.
That bus would be really nifty for someone who has the space and
facilities. It's designed for "forklift refueling". The battery
packs slide out the sides on forks. The bus is "refueled" and back in
service in seconds.
There are skads of these things (pure battery, not hybrid) running in
downtown Chattanooga. Only problem is, I've never seen one go over
about 25mph and they take a good bit of time to get there. I wonder
what the top speed is?
>
>--- Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> FYI--
>>
>> There is one last hybrid-electric bus going into its
>> last day of auction
>> on eBay--
>>
>>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4574213708
>>
>> Or if the link is broken, search for "Broward" in
>> eBay Motors.
>>
>> This is the last of eight hybrid-electric buses that
>> were auctioned off
>> by Broward county. I bought mine early,
>> non-operational, and am in the
>> process of bringing it back to life. The current
>> auction is for a bus
>> that actually still runs, per the seller (although
>> it is missing its
>> APU, the Capstone microturbine).
>>
>> These buses were orphaned when the Chattanooga
>> company that made them
>> went out of business (theirs was a sad story of
>> support failure, shoddy
>> production, unrealistic fleet expectations, and
>> reduced emissions
>> standards which made EV fleets less appealing):-(
>>
>> They do have tons of Solectria stuff, with dual
>> AC55's, UMOC445TF
>> controller, 24 Deka GelTech batteries (dead, most
>> likely), DC-DC
>> converter, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fantastic!!!
2.5 kw of panels.... wow. So every square inch of your roof is covered with PV.
Be sure to make them be able to pivot so you can track the sun when you are
parked. And don't forget a Max Power Point Tracker. I think Outback products
are really great.
If you don't know about BLM land here in the west, check it out. Free camping
for a 14 day period on most BLM land, even leased. A lot of state/federal parks
will let you dump for a small fee, you can even sneak in at times.
Keep us informed!
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Meta Bus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:07 PM
Subject: LSD Tripping in my REV (was: More motors -> More speed?)
> Hi Keith,
>
> My EV is the aforementioned now-defunct-AVS 22'7" hybrid-electric
> shuttle bus. Mostly Solectria stuff. See my fledgling site:
> http://www.metabus.org
>
> My plan is to convert it into a solar-charged recreational EV. I have a
> one-year re-engineering plan which has me spending my money on solar
> panels for the roof (14 Sanyo 190-watt HIT modules) and ultracaps for
> terrain (120 Maxwell BCAP350's). The bus already sports a Capstone
> microturbine as an APU, but I am hoping to keep that (reconfigured) as
> an emergency generator, which I hope to never need.
>
> The plan is to drive my REV across the country, taking my time, using
> only the sun to recharge. RV's are made for this application, as is
> semi-retirement. I'll drive an hour, at highway speeds, and find another
> place to stay for a few days. I have enough roof space to give me about
> 8 amps per hour (at 300v), average 5 hours of insolation-- should just
> make my 10% charge acceptance rate, and giving me about 20 miles per
> day, with 60% DOD, and a lot of time and patience.
>
> I call this plan my LSD trip :-) where LSD is a long-slow-distance. I
> have a lot of work to do-- I am not sure my bus would make it over the
> Rockies as it is today. When I embark, though, I will be embarking on a
> sun-powered adventure. By my calculations, it will take me a year to
> make the round-trip, Florida to Northern California.
>
> Of course, you know what that say-- "If you want to make God laugh..."
>
> Keith Richtman wrote:
>> Maybe I missed it (and can't find it in my archive), but what is your EV
>> Meta Bus?
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> Meta Bus wrote:
>>
>>> <snip stuff about AC55 motors and other cool Solectria parts>
>>>
>>> my EV
>>
>> >
>> > <snip>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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On 13 Sep 2005 at 21:07, Meta Bus wrote:
> I have enough roof space to give me about 8
> amps per hour
I don't think you mean "Amps per hour." That's sort of like saying "gallons per
hour per hour." I'm pretty sure that the figure you're aiming at is "8 amps."
Or, better yet, "2400 watts" (300v * 8a).
Sounds like a VERY leisurely trip. <g>
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David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
On 13 Sep 2005 at 21:07, Meta Bus wrote:
I have enough roof space to give me about 8
amps per hour
I don't think you mean "Amps per hour." That's sort of like saying "gallons per
hour per hour." I'm pretty sure that the figure you're aiming at is "8 amps."
Or, better yet, "2400 watts" (300v * 8a).
Yes, that was a typo/brain fart. I meant 8 amps for 5 hours, or an
accumulation of 40ah, into a pack with nominal 100ah (C/20). That means
about 2 1/2 sunny days to accumulate enough for a one-hour drive
(possible with the MPPT charge controller mentioned by Rush).
Sounds like a VERY leisurely trip. <g>
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Rich,
A while back you wrote:
> What I want in a leaky enviroment is the charger case insulated from the Car
> chassis, But VERY solidly plug bonded to AC ground and earth, using the
> Green wire in the AC Cord feed.
> This gives a short circuit path from the charger case to the breaker box and
> GFI. This gives you safety should the charger have a issue. This is basicly
> required by common sense if not the law.
In the case of a car that was designed with a three wire charging
system (240V, two hots and a ground), should I splice the AC cord
green wire to the white wire?
This is in a flooded EV (leaky environment). The charger is already
electrically isolated from the chassis. I'm currently not using the
AC cord green wire.
Richard Kelly
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of
the modern world.
> snip
>Any new energy source MUST follow that route. The existing
> distribution infrastructure includes:
>
> Oil pipelines
> natural gas pipelines
> distillate pipelines
> The natural gas pipelines
> The electrical grid.
> and on a more-or-less local level, petroleum tankers.
>
Oops! You forgot the most important one!
The sun.
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Today at school, the instructor said something about they can get us
Fluke meters at a discounted price.
He thought but wasn't for sure that maybe it was the "Fluke 77" model
for like ~$100.
I'm unsure if I'll get one or not, depending on the price and the model.
When I find out what price and model, and if all the models are
available or not, I'll ask if there is a limit on how many a person
can get or not. I'll do that if anyone here wants one at the
discounted price. If so, does anyone here maybe want a meter
depending on what's available and the price?
Let me know, or otherwise, I won't ask him if one person can buy more
then one meter...
What's the best meter for the money and the lowest price you've seen it at?
http://us.fluke.com/usen/home/default.htm
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Neon John wrote:
> What I am positive of is that the solution(s) to future transportation
> needs will not involve large quantities of batteries nor a wall plug.
Even with low cost lithium batteries?
Let's imagine a hydrogen future for a moment. I pull up to the gas
station and lets say I have 5, 10,000 psi tanks. How long is it going
to take to refill these tanks? Ever refilled any propane tanks? Not
fast and not fun. I'd much rather plug in my car in my garage after I
get home from work(or sometime during the course of the evening) and
let it recharge while I'm either eating, doing something else, or
sleeping. Not spending ~15 minutes at the fuel station..
Any why bother with a hydrogen fuel cell? Why not hydrogen ICE?
How much money does a 10,000 psi tank(or close to that) currently
cost, and how many years is it good for before I need to get it
inspected? If those tanks are carbon fiber, it just seems to me all
the pressurization/depressurization cycles would be detrimental to the
integrity of the tank?
Let's say for example peak oil happened and now oil is not low cost
anymore. Would GM and Ford, etc, convert their current line of
vehicles to all be propane and natural gas? Or they could do battery
powered for extra convenience.. Out of all the production EV's so
far, I think the Toyota RAV4 EV has been the most impressive and
showed the most potential. What'd it get, 100+ mile range and for all
intents and purposes, could be considered just a "normal" vehicle?
Highly underrated vehicle. At least I think so.
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Which series? Fluke 77 was sold as a I (no series marking), II, or III.
Danny
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Today at school, the instructor said something about they can get us
Fluke meters at a discounted price.
He thought but wasn't for sure that maybe it was the "Fluke 77" model
for like ~$100.
I'm unsure if I'll get one or not, depending on the price and the model.
When I find out what price and model, and if all the models are
available or not, I'll ask if there is a limit on how many a person
can get or not. I'll do that if anyone here wants one at the
discounted price. If so, does anyone here maybe want a meter
depending on what's available and the price?
Let me know, or otherwise, I won't ask him if one person can buy more
then one meter...
What's the best meter for the money and the lowest price you've seen it at?
http://us.fluke.com/usen/home/default.htm
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Derrick Brashear wrote:
> I have 9 Evercel M100s
>They include the Evercel-provided single battery chargers.
> Also, I have 10 Rudman MK2b regulators
List them here:
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/
And here if you haven't already:
http://www.becketts.ws/eaa/forsale.htm
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I don't know how real these guys are, but they claim hydrides are the
way to store H2:
<http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/h2.htm>
A fuel cell is much more efficent than an ICE, so you'd go much
further on each tank of hydrogen.
In a hydrogen economy you could probably fill up at home overnight.
You are right, though, the difficulties make pure electric seem
easier, if lions or other long range batteries get cheap enough.
I was rather disappointed Toyota did an SUV for its electric car.
Something with EV1-like aerodynamics would have had much better
range.
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> Let's imagine a hydrogen future for a moment. I pull up to the gas
> station and lets say I have 5, 10,000 psi tanks. How long is it
> going
> to take to refill these tanks? Ever refilled any propane tanks?
> Not
> fast and not fun. I'd much rather plug in my car in my garage
> after I
> get home from work(or sometime during the course of the evening)
> and
> let it recharge while I'm either eating, doing something else, or
> sleeping. Not spending ~15 minutes at the fuel station..
>
> Any why bother with a hydrogen fuel cell? Why not hydrogen ICE?
>
> How much money does a 10,000 psi tank(or close to that) currently
> cost, and how many years is it good for before I need to get it
> inspected? If those tanks are carbon fiber, it just seems to me
> all
> the pressurization/depressurization cycles would be detrimental to
> the
> integrity of the tank?
>
> Let's say for example peak oil happened and now oil is not low cost
> anymore. Would GM and Ford, etc, convert their current line of
> vehicles to all be propane and natural gas? Or they could do
> battery
> powered for extra convenience.. Out of all the production EV's so
> far, I think the Toyota RAV4 EV has been the most impressive and
> showed the most potential. What'd it get, 100+ mile range and for
> all
> intents and purposes, could be considered just a "normal" vehicle?
> Highly underrated vehicle. At least I think so.
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Yes, you can.
You can use a high amperage secondary of a power transformer to balance the
load by connecting each end of a center tapped winding to the two wipers and
take the center tap out to the rectifier bridge.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:49 AM
Subject: Paralleling and seriesing variac's, controllers and simular
devices.
> I have a dual variac.(two variacs on a metal rod in a case) 220vac. each
> unit is 8amps. I'd like to use both outputs together somehow for more
> amperage. Is it possible to combine the outputs either at the AC output
> point so I wouldn't have to use two bridges or after it has been converted
> to DC after the bridge on the DC side?
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> 415-821-3519
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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First off, for newbies, why a Fluke 77?
Because a cheap meter will show a wrong charge
voltage. It only sees part of the DC, and the DC
isn't as flat as it might seem in most chargers.
There are pulses and voltage fluctuations.
The TRUE RMS meter will show a more accurate reading.
Other more knowledgeable people on the list can refine
this answer, as I'm no EE.
Fluke makes great True RMS meters. I finally got my
fluke _87_ for $100 off e-Bay.
Embarrassed to say I ever plunked down money for a
cheap Gardner-Bender model...
--- Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Which series? Fluke 77 was sold as a I (no series
> marking), II, or III.
>
> Danny
>
> Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
> >Today at school, the instructor said something
> about they can get us
> >Fluke meters at a discounted price.
> >
> >He thought but wasn't for sure that maybe it was
> the "Fluke 77" model
> >for like ~$100.
> >
> >I'm unsure if I'll get one or not, depending on the
> price and the model.
> >
> >When I find out what price and model, and if all
> the models are
> >available or not, I'll ask if there is a limit on
> how many a person
> >can get or not. I'll do that if anyone here wants
> one at the
> >discounted price. If so, does anyone here maybe
> want a meter
> >depending on what's available and the price?
> >
> >Let me know, or otherwise, I won't ask him if one
> person can buy more
> >then one meter...
> >
> >What's the best meter for the money and the lowest
> price you've seen it at?
> >
> >http://us.fluke.com/usen/home/default.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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http://mail.yahoo.com
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