EV Digest 4712
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: IOTA power supply not dc to dc?
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Albright SW200A Contactors $50
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Tilley electric car coming soon?
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Lithium Battery Users?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the
modern world.
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: IOTA power supply not dc to dc?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
by Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Lithium Battery Users?
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: IOTA power supply not dc to dc?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the
modern world.
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Coax
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Another battery swap...
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Tilley electric car coming soon?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Fiber glass body available
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Fest-ev-a project update
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the
modern world.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: IOTA power supply not dc to dc?
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
by "Rodriguez, Jennifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: pennsylvania
by Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the
modern world.
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Slow Going thru the ICE Age (wuz: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?)
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Fest-ev-a project update
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of the
modern world.
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
UH OH! I just bought one of these things...Any other thoughts..
Cwarman
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 2:07 PM
Subject: IOTA power supply not dc to dc?
> Here's a response I got from the EBay seller "associated1" saying the Iota
power supplies not suitable for dc-dc purposes. What gives, is this simply
a 'non-supported application' that usually works anyway?
> Jay Donnaway
> Vancouver WA
> -snip-
> We sell many of these to hobby oriented users, BUT, ALL these units both
120 vac and 220 vac are AC to DC only.
> If used off a battery pack you must use an inverter OR use a generator
to supply the Iota with AC power in.
> Iota does NOT make DC to DC units.
> -associated1
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My system is 126V nominal, 148V peak. Would these be okay to use?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 11:01 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: Albright SW200A Contactors $50
I believe if you use two you can use these on higher voltages also.
LR>.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Post" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:43 AM
Subject: Albright SW200A Contactors $50
> Anyone interested in Albright contactors for $50 each plus shipping?
> SW200A-678 (can anyone decipher the -678 part number code?)
> 12V coil
> I think these are rated 120VDC 250A continuous
>
> I bought one on eBay and the seller has Total qty available: 4939
>
> Let me know asap if you want any.
> - quantity
> - shipping address
> - preferred shipper
> - how you would like to pay (PayPal preferred)
>
> Rick Barnes
> Aloha, OR
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
=====================
I've had a morbid fascination with such frauds. Back in the old days
they promised with small modifications they could turn lead into gold.
Now the universal panacea of free energy devices seems to fill the exact
same void. Wow, this guy's really out to take a lot of people's money
rather than just attention.
======================
Here ya go! Enjoy!
http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/fnrg.html
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Same here. I hope to have my EV on the road in October, with 35 200Ah
cells. I'll let you know then, Don.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Siebert
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 9:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Lithium Battery Users?
Don:
I'll be using 100 Thunder Sky 90 Ah cells starting about October 1.
/Bob
On Sep 14, 2005, at 7:09 AM, Don Cameron wrote:
> I have only got two responses so far - there must be more!
>
>
> I am taking a Lithium Battery poll to update the EV FAQ hosted by
> EVParts.com I will be collecting this information and David Brandt
> will edit
> and put it on the EV FAQ.
>
> Here are the questions:
>
> Lithium Battery Manufacturers
>
> -----------------------------
>
> 1. Do you know of a Lithium battery manufacturer who sells EV specific
> batteries? What is their name and website?
> 2. Do you know who can they be ordered from? (e.g. is there a north
> American
> distributor?)
> 3. If possible, please list some specifics in terms of capacity,
> BMS, weight
> and price.
>
>
>
>
>
> Lithium Battery Users
>
> ---------------------
>
> 1. If you use Lithium batteries in your EV, what brand, type and size?
> 2. What size is the pack, and the type of your EV?
> 3. What do you use for a BMS?
> 4. Do you need other energy technology to supplement Lithium? Super
> Caps,
> Lead Acid?
> 5. Other comments about using lithium technology (experience, safety,
> quality, would you do it again, etc.):
>
>
>
> thanks
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
> <outbind://64/www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
snip..
> What I am positive of is that the solution(s) to future transportation
> needs will not involve large quantities of batteries nor a wall plug.
> Remotely maybe in the interim but certainly not in the long term.
But by small quantities of batteries in little cheese wedges @250Wh per
mile, which is why I'm building my toy, Oh Boy! - Mark (with the bombardier)
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart was saying they work, but not for very long.
I'm not sure what's going on to cause them to fail. These usually just
rectify out the AC into DC and the DC supply gets fed to a switching
power supply. So in theory they should be fine, but there's always
catches. Does that thing have a 220vac/110vac mechanical switch in
back, or does it adapt internally? Perhaps its design does not
comfortably accomodate intermediate voltages.
Lee pointed out that the voltage is pretty rough with a high current PWM
at the source. This is likely to be a problem, the switching power
supply can have trouble regulating out input spikes. These might be
able to harm components on the input or output side but it's impossible
to say what the problem is without evaluating the failure of a specific
device.
I was wondering if an RC input filter could fix this. It would require
a pretty sizable inductor and capacitor but I think these can be picked
up on surplus pretty cheap.
The other possibility was the heat or vibration in auto service was too
hard on it. In that case an input filter, or an inverter, wouldn't help.
Danny
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here's a response I got from the EBay seller "associated1" saying the Iota
power supplies not suitable for dc-dc purposes. What gives, is this simply a
'non-supported application' that usually works anyway?
Jay Donnaway
Vancouver WA
-snip-
We sell many of these to hobby oriented users, BUT, ALL these units both 120
vac and 220 vac are AC to DC only.
If used off a battery pack you must use an inverter OR use a generator to
supply the Iota with AC power in.
Iota does NOT make DC to DC units.
-associated1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jerry dycus wrote:
Hi Stefano and All,
Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
Just passing on some information and a link.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005091410121302&item=6-936&catname=electric
While usable, not eff as a reg series motor which would be better. They have one, a 48vdc GE at $339 that would power most anything but you are getting close to new prices for a very used unit.
Check your local Fork lift, motor repair shops for orphaned, out of date , thus cheap motors. I have a rule, never pay more than $100 for one. Amd make sure it works by taking a battery, jumper cables with spare battery cables to hok it up for test.
Jim Husted may have some like this. I like GE as they usually are
fairly eff though only a little more. Some like the one you noted and the
Prestolites are only 75% eff vs others are 80-82% eff.
Of course, the E tek if a very small EV or 2-4 of them for a larger EV
may be fairly eff letting you use less batteries or more range.
This seems to fit right in with our other thread on low-cost conversion.
Can these evolks guys be too good to be true? $1500 complete conversion
kit? They mention using a contactor and shifting to control speed
instead of a PWM controller at 36 volts, does this kind of rig work for
higher voltage too? I'm very confused by all this as it seems to me that
using just a contactor would give you either all on or all off type
performance. so basically you're flooring it or not and using the tranny
to control speed? wouldn't that be dangerous? what am I missing here?
Andrew
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
regards,
Stefano
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
If I'd do it again knowing what I know now, I'd use 200Ah cells and
no ultracaps.
Victor, that statement catches my interest, as I was planning to
incorporate ultracaps into my re-design.
Were you disappointed by your ultracaps?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My pack is 126V nominal, dropping to around 105V at end of cycle. Does this
sound too low for the IOTA unit?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rod Hower
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 11:21 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: IOTA power supply not dc to dc?
This guy is full of crap.
I seen the dialog between him and Eric Poulsen.
I think most of Eric's responses were civil, however
this guy came across as a real jerk.
Anyhow,
You can supply DC this unit, in fact you can connect
positive and negative either direction, the input
diode bridge will take care of polarity. Of course you
will have the input diode drop losses times 2.
Using the AC input range on their specification you
get
full rated output power with 152-182Vdc. The actual
range will be wider than this, but I'm still waiting
to hear from their engineering department about the
real input range.
It does have some of the open frame drawbacks like the
Todd units, but in my analysis it is more robust than
the Todd unit with better protection mechanisms and
higher efficiency.
The output voltage can be adjusted from 12.5Vdc to
15.5Vdc.
I'll post again when I get more details.
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Here's a response I got from the EBay seller
> "associated1" saying the Iota power supplies not
> suitable for dc-dc purposes. What gives, is this
> simply a 'non-supported application' that usually
> works anyway?
> Jay Donnaway
> Vancouver WA
> -snip-
> We sell many of these to hobby oriented users, BUT,
> ALL these units both 120 vac and 220 vac are AC to
> DC only.
> If used off a battery pack you must use an inverter
> OR use a generator to supply the Iota with AC power
> in.
> Iota does NOT make DC to DC units.
> -associated1
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I've been heating my hot tub, water and half my space heating and living in
passive/active solar homes for the last 20 years in Colorado and Virginia.
If the house is pointed south, the 8 (4x8) panels I built & plumbing, $2k
total paid back in one year. Also getting hydrogen from natural gas costs
twice as much per energy stored as natural gas and wastes 30 in the process.
This was from Air Corp at EVS-21 who makes H2 for NASA and now for the
financial black hole "hydrogen economy".
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of
the modern world.
> On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:42:45 -0700, "Lawrence Rhodes"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Hey my 2.4kw solar system gives me a net 10 dollar electric bill per
month.
> >LR.......NOT PRACTICAL?????
>
> You paid how much for that setup and the payback time is how much? Not
> including the sugar from Uncle, of course.
>
> When you do your cost calcs, please include the cost of battery
> replacement and the occasional repair of the inverter from lightning
> or just plain random failure.
>
> And what do you do if you live in a place like here where the sun
> doesn't shine for weeks at a time? That is most of the time from
> about the end of October to March in this area.
>
> Nope, not practical.
>
> John
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 11:51 PM
> >Subject: Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment
of
> >the modern world.
> >
> >
> >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:15:40 -0400, "David"
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Any new energy source MUST follow that route. The existing
> >>>> distribution infrastructure includes:
> >>>>
> >>>> Oil pipelines
> >>>> natural gas pipelines
> >>>> distillate pipelines
> >>>> The natural gas pipelines
> >>>> The electrical grid.
> >>>> and on a more-or-less local level, petroleum tankers.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Oops! You forgot the most important one!
> >>>
> >>>The sun.
> >>
> >> No, I only listed things that are practical.
> >>
> >> John
> >> ---
> >> John De Armond
> >> See my website for my current email address
> >> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> >> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> >>
> >
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
>> I like the idea of fiber optic... It is great from point to point
>> but hard to imagine connecting 25 regulators via fiber.
Well, there's expensive ultra-high-speed data-grade fiber optics; and
then there is low-grade cheap slow fiber optics. What kind of data rate
are you talking about?
For slow stuff, I'd use plain old cheap acrylic plastic fiber (the kind
sold to hobbyists to make novelty items like paintings with stars in the
sky that light up). A superbright LED and phototransistor, attached to
the fiber with heatshrink tubing, makes a very cheap fiber optic link
that will carry modest data rates over tens of feet.
Doug Weathers wrote:
> A quick Froogle search shows a 3 foot TOSlink cable priced at
> US$7.49... [transceivers] such as this US$3.69 part...
That seems like overkill for an EV to me. Each cable needs 2
transceivers, so you're talking $7.49 + (2 x $3.69) = $15 per battery.
Multiply that by 25 batteries and you've got almost $400 in just your
"wiring".
The 3-foot cables with the RCA plug on each end that I use for my
EVILbus are $1 each. The optical isolators at each end cost about $1.
> ARCnet has a number of features that make it work nicely...
> Here's a nice brief page with some more technical details,
> for the Lee Harts among us: http://ckp.made-it.com/arcnet.html
This comes up as a dead link for me.
> And while we're on the subject of old computer networks, I'm also
> rather fond of LocalTalk, the RS-485-based network for the original
> Macintosh computer, which ran a protocol called AppleTalk. Probably
> too chatty for EVILbus, though - LocalTalk ran at 230kbps and was
> slow.
It's also transformer isolated. It was the only network protocol that
actually worked when I tested it in an EV environment. My test was a
MOSFET, 12v battery, and load resistor that drew 500 amps switching
on/off at 15 KHz (to simulate a controller). I bundled the wire from
various networks against it to see what happened. Most failed totally
(RS-232, RS-485, CANbus, Ethernet on Cat5 wire). Appletalk worked, but
made lots of errors and retries.
> And while I can babble on interminably about the grand old days of
> computer networking, we're probably straying off topic for the EVDL.
> Followups should probably go to the EV Tech list.
Agreed. We should move further discusssions over there if anyone's
interested.
--
Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
Well, yesterday I brought home 16 new Orbitals for the RX-7. As I posted
back on 06-30-05, I had murdered some of the old YT's and was in need of a
new pack, but I ended up just bypassing four of the worst batteries so my
daughter could limp around town while I got some quotes on batteries. Per a
response from Ed Koffeman, I contacted www.AutoSupplyUSA.com and Joe quoted
$105 each (with a recent Exide increase), but I would need to pick them up
in Commerce City, the armpit of Colorado (with all the oil refineries)!
Although I don't like big box stores, I checked with Auto Zone and Advanced
Auto in a nearby town to see if they could come close to $105 on 16 YT's,
but they couldn't. I also asked Checker Auto, which sells Orb's, about a
price break on quantity and they were willing to match the $105 price, so I
eventually ordered from them. Buying new AGM batteries really hurt, but for
teenagers (and a recovering gas gearhead), they're the way to go. It was
really nice being able to haul some old cores to Checker and pickup the new
Orb's with my utility trailer yesterday, using the electric truck. Although
I'm not looking forward to swapping batteries, when it's done and the new
batteries are broken in, we'll have a fun EV once more. I remember when the
floodies came out of the RX-7 and the YT's went in, John Bryan was going to
come and help me, but he didn't show up until the last YT was ready to be
loaded. Then he didn't want to stay while I installed the interconnects, so
as not to distract me, telling me the story about "the incident" that
happened to the White Zombie! Anyway, with all the posts lately (108 per
day over the previous seven days starting from last Sunday), I'll have to
skim the list, which I've had to do more and more lately, and not post for
awhile!
Later,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fringe science isn't all about investor fraud though. Plenty of guys
publish web pages about things they "invented" that supposedly you can
do yourself. That class usually isn't out for money, they're deluded by
I guess a fantasy of importance of having created something that will
fix the world. Then you have another class where they talk about
joining the soul/psychic energy/ghosts with crystals, electronics, and
so on. Those guys typically don't pay a lot of attention to measurable
science and use terms of "electricity", "energy" etc in inappropriate
contexts. The archetype would definitely be Wilhelm Reich and the
science of "orgone energy" and the "Cloudbuster":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich
Danny
Roy LeMeur wrote:
Danny Miller wrote:
=====================
I've had a morbid fascination with such frauds. Back in the old days
they promised with small modifications they could turn lead into gold.
Now the universal panacea of free energy devices seems to fill the exact
same void. Wow, this guy's really out to take a lot of people's money
rather than just attention.
======================
Here ya go! Enjoy!
http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/fnrg.html
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can see why it works well at 72vdc. LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefano Landi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 8:24 AM
Subject: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
Hi everyone,
Just passing on some information and a link.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005091410121302&item=6-936&catname=electric
regards,
Stefano
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey, I came across this on the Corvair list I belong
to, anybody near Racine interested?
TiM
Guys, I was offered a fiberglass 'Corvair' body a
while back. Upon checking it out, I found out it
wasn't for a Corvair. It was apparently produced in
small numbers locally (SE Wisconsin); named Griffin
(Gryphon, Griffon?). Anyway, it was offered to me for
free; I just had to get it out of the warehouse it was
in.
Needless to say, I picked it up. However, I have no
use for it. If anybody is interested - it needs to go
somewhere soon. If you are serious, and can't get
here very soon, I can move it to paid storage. If
nobody wants it; I'll have to discard it. Below is
the relevant info:
I picked up the body & molds. Here is a webpage with
photos: http://home.att.net/~vairgeek These photos
show the body as picked up; there is a lot of dirt on
the back section. There is also a hump in the back;
perhaps to clear a central air cleaner? Included are
molds only for a roof with gull wing style half doors.
I have been told the roof utilizes an Early Vair
windshield. The side & back glass are flat - perhaps
Plexiglas is used for those. Here are some
measurements - all +/- ½" or so: Body is 65" wide -
front to back. It is 147" long, 25" tall at the rear
wheels, 23" tall at the front wheels, with a full
width 5" tall spoiler at the back. There is a valley
between the front wheels; I don't have measurements
for that. I also failed to get the dimension of the
cockpit F/B on the body. The cockpit is 48" wide &
38" front to back; with the seatback area sloping
forward toward the bottom. The rear wheel cutout is
33" forward from the back of the body; the wheelbase
is 87". The body appears to be as molded, although it
has blemishes from long time storage; with some
chipping of the topcoat. The body is as molded;
certainly some height could be trimmed out of it, if
desired. There are molded in half cylinder
reinforcements - visible in one of the photos. I
picked it up so it wouldn't be discarded. I have no
money into it at this point. It's currently stored in
a friends yard, but if it has to stay here too long I
might have to rent storage space (some $). It is
located in Racine, Wisconsin - zip 53404.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005091410121302&item=6-936&catname=electric
This would work great at 72vdc. Keep that pack weight down. Use an Altrax.
Keep your project on budget. LR......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Sackville-West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: Fest-ev-a project update
Jerry,
I've seen a few posts from you that hint at these ideas and this one is
the most comprehensive I've seen so far...
jerry dycus wrote:
Some things you may want to try is using alum angles, box
sections accross the transmission and use a bearing there to take the
shaft loads belted or direct drive to the motor or motors., this saves
the rather high cost of a adaptor plate, ect.
Next look around for some surplus 100-200 amp 36-48vdc
forklift, other motor/s which you should be able to find under $200.
Figure a 72-96vdc pack of CG batts. 72vdc is good as you can
make chargers for them from GC charger very cheap.
Next use a contactor controller which is reliable, easily
repairable and cheap. You should be easily able to get by with 3 speeds
of starting resistor-36vdc, 36vdc and 72vdc especailly since you can
shift and will be low powered. But this set up will get you 65mph at
least depending on many factors like drag reduction, motor size, ect
Use a 12vdc batt as your 12v source and a reg batt charger
instead of a DC/DC.
Now we have most of what you need and haven't hit $1,000 yet
!!
sounds to me like you suggest using 2 of these forklift motors wired in
series with belt or chain drive attached to the input shaft of tranny?
what kind of side loads hit the shafts of these motors and tranny? can you
use off-the-shelf bearings like you'd use for shop fixtures?
I have struggled with the cost of EV conversion as I see it popularly
discussed: adaptor plates, big expensive motors, complicated expensive
controllers etc. Its definitely keeping me from doing it.
Where can I find more information about this type of low-cost conversion
and its effectiveness?
Andrew
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paid 12k. State paid other half. Not doing it only on cost but now I'm
really glad I did it. My bill is 10 dollars a month. Oh I do pay 100 on
the loan but that includes two cars too. LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment of
the modern world.
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:42:45 -0700, "Lawrence Rhodes"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey my 2.4kw solar system gives me a net 10 dollar electric bill per
month.
LR.......NOT PRACTICAL?????
You paid how much for that setup and the payback time is how much? Not
including the sugar from Uncle, of course.
When you do your cost calcs, please include the cost of battery
replacement and the occasional repair of the inverter from lightning
or just plain random failure.
And what do you do if you live in a place like here where the sun
doesn't shine for weeks at a time? That is most of the time from
about the end of October to March in this area.
Nope, not practical.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: Electricity stored in batteries. The biggest dissapointment
of
the modern world.
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:15:40 -0400, "David"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Any new energy source MUST follow that route. The existing
distribution infrastructure includes:
Oil pipelines
natural gas pipelines
distillate pipelines
The natural gas pipelines
The electrical grid.
and on a more-or-less local level, petroleum tankers.
Oops! You forgot the most important one!
The sun.
No, I only listed things that are practical.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This goes to my earlier post regarding the conversion of these for DC-DC use.
It can certainly be done, but one would have to do some tests to make sure the
input voltage to the switch mode transistor(output of bridge rectifier/filters)
is adquate for use with a particular traction pack voltage.
I have modified other switch mode supplies to use with dc inputs for other
applications (not for ev use), but don't know why conceptually they wouldn't
work. Believe it or not, your normal PC power supply can be modified to
deliver a hefty 25 amps at 13.8 volts with no real difficulty (using 120vac
input).
The thing to remember is that the Average amount of DC produced by a 120v RMS
sinewave that has been rectified and filtered is close to 170 volts before it
goes into the switching transistor. You lose this advantage when applying pure
DC.
I believe it totally possible to run one of these from a 156v pack (or more)
and am willing to try it myself. Having no real experience with EV's has
taught me to think "outside the box" and some of my solutions to problems have
been pretty different. My background as an EE has been helpful to say the least.
I am still working on a charger solution where I don't need to spend $2000
bucks for a reliable and easy to use method. That will be my next
"engineering" priority soon. While I realize that our suppliers have to make a
living doing what they do, I have an obligation to keep my costs down as much
as possible.
I prefer to use some yankee ingenuity wherever possible. I will let you know
how my experiments using a pc power supply work out. If this works, I will be
glad to share my modifications (an apply them to one of the IOTA units) with
everyone here on the forum.
>From an engineering standpoint, it should work ok.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: 2005/09/14 Wed PM 01:07:27 EST
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: IOTA power supply not dc to dc?
>
> Here's a response I got from the EBay seller "associated1" saying the Iota
> power supplies not suitable for dc-dc purposes. What gives, is this simply a
> 'non-supported application' that usually works anyway?
> Jay Donnaway
> Vancouver WA
> -snip-
> We sell many of these to hobby oriented users, BUT, ALL these units both 120
> vac and 220 vac are AC to DC only.
> If used off a battery pack you must use an inverter OR use a generator to
> supply the Iota with AC power in.
> Iota does NOT make DC to DC units.
> -associated1
>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: No Interest in Electric Drag Racing?
Meta Bus wrote:
>> I own an EV with a top speed of around 40 MPH. I'd like to be
>> able to travel all of my nation's roads. Should I expend my
>> efforts in making my EV capable of going faster, or should I
>> wait until everybody else is willing to slow down?
Lee Hart wrote:
I'd say if you perceive the problem, it is up to you to do something
about it. Others either don't notice, don't care, or don't have an
incentive to do anything about it. Waiting, complaining, etc. are
pointless -- you'll be waiting forever. Some dream of a better future;
others get out of bed and make it happen.
If your EV is licensed as a normal car, and can go over the minimum
speed limit (45 mph, I believe), then I think you can legally drive it
on any roads. It might not be safe or even sane -- but it's legal!
<snip>
When I drove a Th!nk City, I had one destination that required I take
the freeway to get there within a reasonable time and distance. Usually
the freeway was completely clogged at that time, so it was no problem,
but sometimes it wasn't clogged and there I was, stuck in the slow lane
with a 56 MPH upper limit. I used to get people tail-gating me and when
they would finally pass me, they'd scoot right back in front of me, like
they were mad. You know what I mean. Then I put a sign up in the back
window that said "MAX SPEED 56 MPH" and all of a sudden the traffic just
flowed around me like water! No one tail-gated, no one cut back in
front of me, there was just a steady stream of vehicles coming up behind
me, getting close enough to read the sign, then pulling around. From
that experience, I learned that managing expectations has a lot to do
with how others treat you.
Jenn
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Thanks Stefano,
I think that is the motor that matches my Corbin adapter. Even tho I am not
building a bug right now but at this price I will probably pick one up just
to have on hand. After all, I do have that Meyers Manx body out back....Hmm.
Too bad they aren't offering the coupler too!! LOL, that would be too easy.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefano Landi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 8:24 AM
Subject: Surplus EV motor as used by the evolks guys
> Hi everyone,
>
> Just passing on some information and a link.
>
>
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005091410121302&item=6-936&catname=electric
>
> regards,
>
> Stefano
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I live in Montreal, Canada and I'm working on my own Ford Festiva EV
conversion.
Stefano
http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
On 9/14/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Im am from Houlton Maine and just starting my ev experience. 1997 Chevy
> S10 in the works..
>
>
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:06:33 -0400, "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Hi,
>I've been heating my hot tub, water and half my space heating and living in
>passive/active solar homes for the last 20 years in Colorado and Virginia.
>If the house is pointed south, the 8 (4x8) panels I built & plumbing, $2k
>total paid back in one year.
How can you possibly claim a $2k payback in one year? What kind of
wasteful house do you have? Even in my ancient concrete block 6800 sq
ft building, gas heat has cost no more than $100/month max and that's
only for a couple of months of the year. Even if NG doubles this year
and the sun shown most of the time, I couldn't save $2k in a year. My
mom's 30 year old 2400 sq ft ranch costs only around $40/month to heat
water and air in the winter. She keeps her place a lot hotter than I
do mine.
I covered my roof with solar water heater panels on my first house
back in the mid 70s. They worked great with hot water to burn when
the sun shown. That was spring, summer and part of fall. In the
winter they sucked bilgewater. In this part of the country, cloud
cover socks in and remains for weeks at a time. I'd have been
showering in very cold water had I not kept my gas backup heater.
>Also getting hydrogen from natural gas costs
>twice as much per energy stored as natural gas and wastes 30 in the process.
>This was from Air Corp at EVS-21 who makes H2 for NASA and now for the
>financial black hole "hydrogen economy".
You sound like that guy from IBM who predicted that there was a
worldwide demand for maybe 50 computers back in the 50s. His myopia
was so severe that he could not imagine anything beyond the present.
I have no idea (well, really I do but that's off topic here) what the
breakthroughs might be but I've observed some sort of Moore's Law at
work in just about every place there's been a national will (NOT
government will.)
While of interest, end use efficiency takes a back seat to
distribution efficiency. Simple economics. If it can't be gotten to
the consumer efficiently, 100% end use efficiency is of no matter.
Arguing about it here won't change things.
I believe that the use of hydrogen as the energy transport mechanism
will come about simply because of infrastructure factors and because
it is scaleable to almost any size. I'm not enamored with the
technology but frankly I can't think of anything more viable.
Before you bleat "EVs", explain to me how you're going to make a BEV
semi tractor that meet the 40 ton weight limit, go 600 miles between
refueling (12 hours of service * 50 mph), refuel in 8 hours and still
have any cargo capacity. Then explain to me how you'd generate,
transport and serve up the electrical energy equivalent of the couple
hundred thousand gallons of diesel a typical truck stop pumps each
day.
For that matter, tell me how you're going to make the family car go,
say, 300 miles at 75 mph on a charge and "refuel" in the time it takes
for a piss break during my trip from here to the west coast. Then
again, tell me how you're going to serve up the energy equivalent of
the gasoline a major interstate gas station pumps in a day. (Something
makes me think an average of 50k gallons but I'm not sure and I'm not
going to look it up.) I'd wait 15 minutes, maybe even 30 minutes
every 300 miles but I'm not sure how many others would.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message ---
Conversely, there was an earlier thread where self-identification of an
EV caused some apparent consternation among surrounding ICE Age drivers.
Of course, that was in-city driving, coming to (and driving away from)
stop lights and signs. It makes sense that on the highway people will
make four-lanes-worth of allowance if they are brought to expect the
stone-in-stream slowness (highway minimum speed) of some right lane EV.
We do it for buses and RV's and overloaded semi's.
My REV bus won't easily achieve the Th!nk City's 56 MPH. But you gave me
an idea for the junked e-sign that came with my bus. Move the sign to
the rear. I'll change "Out Of Service" to "Slow Poke", and maybe I'll
get some friendly honks...
Rodriguez, Jennifer wrote:
When I drove a Th!nk City, I had one destination that required I take
the freeway to get there within a reasonable time and distance. Usually
the freeway was completely clogged at that time, so it was no problem,
but sometimes it wasn't clogged and there I was, stuck in the slow lane
with a 56 MPH upper limit. I used to get people tail-gating me and when
they would finally pass me, they'd scoot right back in front of me, like
they were mad. You know what I mean. Then I put a sign up in the back
window that said "MAX SPEED 56 MPH" and all of a sudden the traffic just
flowed around me like water! No one tail-gated, no one cut back in
front of me, there was just a steady stream of vehicles coming up behind
me, getting close enough to read the sign, then pulling around. From
that experience, I learned that managing expectations has a lot to do
with how others treat you.
Jenn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:43:20 -0700, "Lawrence Rhodes"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005091410121302&item=6-936&catname=electric
>
>This would work great at 72vdc. Keep that pack weight down. Use an Altrax.
Shipping to here is $43 per motor, making the cost about $222 per
motor. Is that a good price? That seems kinda high for a surplus
motor but I don't have a lot of experience in this area.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe via Microwave transmission- NASA had some Idea to put a solar collector
in Space and transport the energy via Microwave to a convert to usable energy
for the Grid. Why not shrink it to vehicle size and have the power being used
by the motor controller come out of the air. No battery required and vehicles
can go as far as the Microwave power transmission last. I could see some
enviromental issues if not focused correctly. And there is lots of lost power.
But look at losses for oil products and maybe it wouldn't be so bad.
Just another crazy idea.
Snip
Before you bleat "EVs", explain to me how you're going to make a BEV
semi tractor that meet the 40 ton weight limit, go 600 miles between
refueling (12 hours of service * 50 mph), refuel in 8 hours and still
have any cargo capacity. Then explain to me how you'd generate,
transport and serve up the electrical energy equivalent of the couple
hundred thousand gallons of diesel a typical truck stop pumps each
day.
For that matter, tell me how you're going to make the family car go,
say, 300 miles at 75 mph on a charge and "refuel" in the time it takes
for a piss break during my trip from here to the west coast. Then
again, tell me how you're going to serve up the energy equivalent of
the gasoline a major interstate gas station pumps in a day. (Something
makes me think an average of 50k gallons but I'm not sure and I'm not
going to look it up.) I'd wait 15 minutes, maybe even 30 minutes
every 300 miles but I'm not sure how many others would.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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