EV Digest 4745
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Highway capable conversion on a budget?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Racing Battery Calculations
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Have I found the ultimate EV discussion list?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Have I found the ultimate EV discussion list?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 6 volt vs 8 volt GC batteries
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Have I found the ultimate EV discussion list?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Have I found the ultimate EV discussion list?
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: White Zombie Saturday Night Race Results at PIR, 9-17-05
by "Rick Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Variac voltage no load vs. load.
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Microturbine generator on eBay
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Rims on Bombardier EV
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Microturbine generator on eBay
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Have I found the ultimate EV discussion list?
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: K&W Chargers
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Charging wires
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) EV start up with the Solectria-Sunrise Body on eBay
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) OT: Aluminum Pipe
by Keith Richtman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Multiple message postings
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Have I found the ultimate EV discussion list?
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Microturbine generator on eBay
by "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 6 volt vs 8 volt GC batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: 6 volt vs 8 volt GC batteries
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Donor Rabbit
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Jim's latest project.
by "karmann_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Just a thought, you might want to put in the better motor sooner if
you can. It's alot of work to do an adapter plate twice. Even if the
mounting is the same, it still is a fair amount of work to get a
motor out and another in.
>From the perspective of someone that has done alot of simulations, I
still think in general Bill Dube's gas mileage to range rule is about
the best you can do. It is easy to do a sim that is more accurate
than the input data you feed it. The gas mileage, however, takes into
account how that person drives, as well as the car's efficiency. The
triumphs you cite have an unusually large range of fuel economies. On
most cars, switching from a 4 to a 6 or 6 to an 8 barely affects the
gas mileage. In any case, the car's weight and aero are far bigger
factors in gas mileage (and ev range) than the engine size.
--- John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Bill Dube's "rule of thumb" is that 800 lbs of
> >floodeds equals one gallon of gas. I.e. if you convert
> >a car that originally got 20mpg and load it with 800
> >lbs of floodies, you can expect 20 miles range.
> I don't expect this rule of thumb to be too terribly
> accurate, but if you're wondering, the GT6 will get 25 mpg
> with a lead foot. Under sane driving on the highway it is
> possible to coax 30-35 mpg out of them, but more typical is
> about 28 mpg. The convertable Spitfire is practically the
> same car minus top(less aero at .39 Cd for Mk I, II, III and
> 42 for Mk IV) with a smaller engine; Spitfire convertibles
> routinely get 40 mpg.
>
> <plus lots of good stuff on conversion improvements>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments interspersed.
--- John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm more curious what your range will look like going 60-70
> mph on the highway.
I'll be curious, too. I figure a small, light, pretty aero car, with
narrow LRR tires should be able to do 40 miles freeway with 28
Orbitals. My commute is 20 miles, so even if this is off I should be
OK. If I could swing Nimh the range should be about 60 miles.
> An EV with 15 lb/hp would accelerate like a gas car with 12
> lb/hp. You'll have little problem eating Audi TTs and BMW
> Z4s for lunch.
In the constant power region, I calculated an EV has 21% more power
(area under the torque vs. rpm curve) than a car with a flat torque
curve and the same horsepower. So I bumped up the hp numbers by 21%
to make them comparable to gas cars. This will be true for above
about 20 mph. In reality it should be a little more than 21% plus-up,
because you have more of that torque earlier on.
Where the EV really shines is in the lower half of the rpm range
(roughly 0 to 20 mph). Then the EV has about twice the torque of a
car with the same horsepower (it's like the EV has twice the hp of
the gas car). Couple that with RWD and the rearward weight bias of
the Porsche 911, and I'm hoping I'll be unbeatable across an
intersection, uh, I mean for 60 foot times.
> Happen to have a website or any place I can view your
> conversion in progress?
I need to do that. I have lots of pictures to post. I will definitely
announce to the list once I have a website going. I have found the
conversion diary websites to be really helpful.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Pete,
>
> Thanks for all the info. I'll read it again a third time to try to soak it
> in. The big thing you are telling me is to forget regen. It makes the
> controler simple, that's for sure. I am sticking to the auto though. I
> still have to believe the start up currents will be a lot less thus
> helping with mileage.
Not true. It takes exactly the same power to acclerate a given weight at
a given rate regardless of gearing. The only difference gearing makes is
where in the torque curve the motor is operating.
Here is a torque curve for the 9" ADC:
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/products/mt2119/mt2119torquecurvefancooled.PDF
This motor operates at over 80% efficiency from ~100 amps to almost 500 amps.
Now if you look at a fixed voltage curve (say 120V), it might appear that
a motor operates at very poor efficiency when turning low rpms.
However, when starting from a stop, the motor isn't seeing 120V, it's
seeing maybe 20V. At 20V the peak efficiency point is at a relatively low
RPM.
Look at the chart again, you can see that it has the main (solid line)
curve for 72V as well as curves for 96V and 120V.
As the voltage increases the curve moves up the chart (higher RPM) and
logically as the voltage drops, the curve will move down the chart (lower
RPMS)
This chart doesn't show it, but as the voltage drops the efficiency curve
becomes more arced and the 80%+ efficiency band narrows.
So if you are running really low voltage at really high current then you
will see poor efficiency. But typically this will only happen at really
low speeds and a high reduction ratio.
If you have one gear for low speeds and a second gear for high speeds you
can keep the motor's efficiency above 80% for most of the time.
Running higher currents allows you to use a lower reduction ratio and
maintain your desired acceleration rate. Running a higher voltage allows
you to maintain torque output up to a higher RPM before the controller
comes out of current limit.
This is how people get away with using a fixed reduction ratio (single
speed tranny). They run high voltage, high current controllers and either
one or two large motors. Using two motors reduces the current per motor
and allows you to improve efficiency at low RPMs This works ok unless you
need to pull a heavier than expected load, or climb a steep hill, or both.
Then you might want to be able to shift down.
With the series wound motors on the market today, a two speed transmission
is sufficient to provide both good efficiency and decent acceleration.
You might be able to improve motor efficiency by 1% or 2% with a well
designed automatic transmission, but I think you'll end up loosing that
much, or more, in the pumps and controlls. If you come up with a really
good design, you /might/ improve total efficiency by 1%. You have to
decide whether or not that is worth all the extra cost, complexity, and
time.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>Right now it's a 16 mile trip for me and a 22 mile trip for my wife.
>> Round
>>trip. As long as I don't get a new job further away we should be good.
>
> Ooh, on 8V wet cells that may be a struggle. The only successful 8V user I
> know of is Jeff Owen in Queensland, in a very small Honda and strict
> 110km/h maximum speed limits. Not sure what his range is, but if he is
> lurking he may chime in.
Naw, 18 batteries can do it easy, no problem. I only had 15 T-875s in my
truck and had a daily commute of 16-18 miles. The max range, with good
batteries, was over 35 miles, to 80% DOD.
With 3 more batteries max range should be closer to 40-45 miles.
My only concern is that people that go for 144V systems generally expect
higher performance. This means high current draws and 8V batteries don't
due well with high currents.
If you are gentle on the accelerator it will work out fine. It's just
that it's so tempting to bury the throttle.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> > 18 - 8 volt Trojan T-875 batteries.
>>
>>I wouldn't recommend 8V batteries.
>>In real life T-875 batteries are only good for about 350 amps, and that's
>>only when they are fairly new and fully charged. As they age/discharge
>>max current drops to 300, then 250 and then -near end of life or end of
>>charge- less than 200 amps.
>
> 6 and 8 volt GC batteries have the same exact plates, and the same number
> of plates. This is according to an email from Nawaz - for the US battery
> line. I have also read (on this list) that the same is true for the Trojan
> T-105's and T-875's.
>
> That means that they can supply exactly the same power ( not current) and
> will have the same life while supplying the same power.
Very true. I believe the reason so many folks have poor luck with 8V
batteries is they figure to save some weight by using only 15 batteries
instead of 20 and then try to get the same performance out of them. THis
means the same kind of current draws and the 8V batteries can't obviously
handle the same current.
The main problem, as I see it, is that if you have a 600 amp controller,
sooner or later you're going to draw 600 amps.
Generally if someone gets a 144V controller they are looking for higher
performance than they can get from a 120V controller. So again, this
means they will probably try to pull the same high currents.
If you were to set a lower battery current limit then the 8V batteries
would last as long as a similar number of 6V batteries.
However, as you point out, both batteries (8V or 6V) produce the same
power per battery, so why spend the extra money on 8V batteries?
Everywhere I've looked 8V batteries cost 20-50% more than 6V batteries.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Honestly it will cost a WHOLE lot less energy to stick with vacuum assist
power brakes than to switch to hydraulic. The vacuum pump only has to be on
to regenerate after braking and the vacuum pump itself is a very low draw
item. The pump assembly and tank weigh maybe 11 pounds tops. Now the
hydraulic pump assembly will take a pump to drive that constantly. Driving
it, the power steering, and air conditioning will take at least a 3 HP
electric motor. You will have to drive it constantly to keep the brakes
pumped up. The vacuum unit is a sealed system so it stores 2 brake
evolutions worth of power in the bellows. The hydraulic unit does not have
this capability. With some cars you can eliminate power steering altogether
and go with a manual gearbox. Most small wheelbase cars do just fine with
manual steering. That would leave just the AC to run off of the electric
motor, which you could do off the shaft of the traction motor.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Grasser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Have I found the ultimate EV discussion list?
> Hi Mark
>
> Your subject line states: Have I found the ultimate EV discussion list?
> The answer is, yes!
cool
>Advanced DC motor 9" traction motor. Is this too big?
So far everyone says it's not too big. Guess it'll be a go on the 9" motor.
>>18 - 8 volt Trojan T-875 batteries.
>
> 144V - presumably in order to get enough volts to run the 9" up to the
> RPMs you are looking at without adding too much weight. But the 8V
> batteries have a reputation for being not as strong as 6V'ers, and teamed
> up with a 9" may have a dissapointing life span.
>
Understood. It makes perfect sense that the 8 volters don't match up to the
6 volters in current, same size more voltage = less current. Anything about
their construction that makes the T875s loosers?
> Yes,should be simple for someone with your background. What topology are
> you intending to implement? Transformer? PFC? (another discussion for the
> EVtech list).
I'm thinking 50khz switcher with programmed PIC for control. No pfc yet but
a good idea, would get my charging current up for when I'm away from the BIG
power at home.
>>Air conditioning, yes but not sure how yet.
>
> Either a seperate motor that only runs when you want aircon, or a pump on
> the main motor that you have to run the main motor to get aircon.
I think after reading the last day of emails that it can run when the car is
moving. It'll be ok at stop lights for that minute without, here in Maine
anyway.
>>PS and PB, vacuum pump for the brakes, not sure on the Power Steering.
I wonder if finding a pressure style power brake is a good idea, run it with
the trans and power steering pumps. I think Audi has one. Again, have to
check the pressures.
>>If it is ok with you guy I am going to put this up large in the garage
>>"*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world". -- Mahatma Gandhi
>
> Lee Hart (a man you need to pay a lot of attention to) has that as one of
> his tag lines. Quite appropriate for EVers.
Lee, TIA. Insperation is needed at this stage of the game.
>
> What is your planned use for the vehicle? be dissapointing to build a
> vehicle without the range or carrying capacity to do your daily duties.
Right now it's a 16 mile trip for me and a 22 mile trip for my wife. Round
trip. As long as I don't get a new job further away we should be good.
Thanks,
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James,
Thanks,
This is an email to keep for reference.
Mark Grasser
78 #358
BIG REDs
http://members.rennlist.com/mgrasser
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: Have I found the ultimate EV discussion list?
Hi Mark
At 08:06 PM 20/09/05 -0400, Mark wrote:
So far everyone says it's not too big. Guess it'll be a go on the 9"
motor.
Aah, don't forget that there is more than one choice in series DC motors
of that size. Advanced DC, Netgain, Warfield, GE and others. And don't
forget the Jim Husted special build options. Jim, have you a suitable
motor available?
144V - presumably in order to get enough volts to run the 9" up to the
RPMs you are looking at without adding too much weight. But the 8V
batteries have a reputation for being not as strong as 6V'ers, and teamed
up with a 9" may have a dissapointing life span.
Understood. It makes perfect sense that the 8 volters don't match up to
the 6 volters in current, same size more voltage = less current. Anything
about their construction that makes the T875s loosers?
Not sure. Nawaz is a US battery (competitor to Trojan) guy who may have
some insights - may need to 'page' him with a post asking specifically
about battery comparisons.
Yes,should be simple for someone with your background. What topology are
you intending to implement? Transformer? PFC? (another discussion for the
EVtech list).
I'm thinking 50khz switcher with programmed PIC for control. No pfc yet
but a good idea, would get my charging current up for when I'm away from
the BIG power at home.
Correct on the PFC, (gloating here in the land of 240VAC house-power and
415V 3-phase). Rich Rudmans' PFC range of chargers are all analogue - no
micro. No Isolation, too, if that is important to you.
Air conditioning, yes
I think after reading the last day of emails that it can run when the car
is moving. It'll be ok at stop lights for that minute without, here in
Maine anyway.
Sounds OK, but that means you need a motor with a 'tail-end' shaft.
I wonder if finding a pressure style power brake is a good idea,
Your local transport inspection would probably need an engineering
certificate for that (go ask them). Adding a vacuum pump and staying with
the existing braking system may be much less hassle.
What is your planned use for the vehicle? be dissapointing to build a
vehicle without the range or carrying capacity to do your daily duties.
Right now it's a 16 mile trip for me and a 22 mile trip for my wife. Round
trip. As long as I don't get a new job further away we should be good.
Ooh, on 8V wet cells that may be a struggle. The only successful 8V user I
know of is Jeff Owen in Queensland, in a very small Honda and strict
110km/h maximum speed limits. Not sure what his range is, but if he is
lurking he may chime in.
Thanks,
Mark
Just trying to help
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I replaced the too short Zilla cable with a standard cat 5e patch cable (not
a crossover) on my car. My new cable is 6 ft long. I do not have any
problems at all. You can compare the wire colors at each end of the cat 5e
cable to verify wire connections match. You can make or order custom length
cables too.
I did move the ferrite from the short cable to the longer cable.
The signal cable routing should be away from power wires to prevent
electrical noise.
The Hairball pin 1 requires a chassis ground cable no longer than 4".
Maybe either the Hairball or the Zilla has a bad socket, which only works
when the too short cable is used.
You can get a shielded cat 5e cable which may further reduce noise. Here is
a link: http://www.blackbox.com/Catalog/Detail.aspx?cid=45,85,785&mid=3804
Rick Barnes
Aloha, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Farver
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: White Zombie Saturday Night Race Results at PIR, 9-17-05
Ryan Stotts wrote:
> John Wayland wrote:
>Seems the new
>>Hairball -to- Zilla CAT 6 cable I picked up wasn't a direct
>>replacement for a CAT 5 type.
>
>
> Was it a "crossover" cable instead of a "patch" cable? If it was a
> patch cable, it should have worked just fine. Check it for
John's Hairball/Controller seems really finicky about the cable. During
the last minute preparations to race for the JW Invitation we couldn't
locate the included cable and instead used a nice Cat 6 patch I had in
my bag. It didn't work...
A all hands search of the garage ensued, and someone quickly found the
original (but still short) cable buried on John's workbench (in the box,
who'd have guessed?)
So two purchased cables that should have worked, didn't. Very odd since
the included cable is an off the shelf cat 5e patch cord.
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Usually variacs are set up to have their max output voltage (AC) be about
10% higher than the AC input voltage. So, I would expect that you should
be able to get about 260V AC out of the 240V variac, or about 360V DC.
Are you sure you are wiring it up right? If there's no indication on the
variac itself, you might be able to find a wiring diagram on the web
somewhere.
Or, try measuring the AC out at the tap you are using for output. If it's
less than 240 VAC ( and, it sounds like it is, based on 190 VDC) try
switching the input and output taps. ( keep the same common)
Phil
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Subject: Variac voltage no load vs. load.
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:34:03 -0700
I just put together a 240v variac charger. I got 160vdc out of my 120v
variac. I'm lucky with no load to get 190vdc on this 240v version. I was
thinking I'd get 300vdc at least out of this thing. Is the no load a
problem? I tried all the taps. I have the highest possible voltage.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Capstone microturbine is 900degree exhaust temp w/o
> treatment. Waste it
> or use it is the question. That is why they make
> great standby power
> for processing plants that would use some of the
> electricity to heat
> anyway. Perhaps the perfect co-generation setup at
> home.
a little large for home use but power, heating and
cooling in one package :
http://www.utcpower.com/fs/com/bin/fs_com_Page/0,5433,03200,00.html
~fortunat
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger, WOW, thanks a bunch, I won't know how to act now.
Yeah, Honda was 100mm real close to 4".
I got the battery trays and access hatches modified last night, a 300W DC
converter built, a Ferro-resonant PFC iso charger with uP control and dash
display done.
I was wondering what to do for lunch today, back to the junk yard :-) Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 2:15 PM
Subject: RE: Rims on Bombardier EV
> On 20 Sep 2005 at 8:37, Mark Hanson wrote:
>
> > I went to the junk yard for lunch yesterday climbing over
> > the cars and found out that mid-80's Honda Civic's and
> > Nissan Sentra's (175 70R13) have the same 4 lug nut pattern
> > but instead of being exactly 4" diagonal like the Bomb, they
> > are about 1/32" less so I can put a 20 thou feeler guage in
> > the lug nut gap when I put the rim on.
>
> Mark, go back to the junk yard and dig yourself up some proper 4x4"
> wheels! According to
> <http://www.alliedracingwheels.com/patternref.html>, the 4x4" (101.6mm)
> lug pattern is used by:
>
> Austin-Healey Sprite
> Crosley - all '39-'52
> MG Midget
> Jensen Healey
> Opel Manta, Kadette, GT
> GM L-body
> Buick Skyhawk '75-'81
> Chevrolet Vega, Monza '71-'81
> Pontiac Sunbird, Astre '76-'81
> Oldsmobile Starfire '75-'81
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Really ???
> That surprises me. I do not remember the the full
> power DB levels...
> The same power level military Gen carts are ear Pro
> only.
we have a couple of the C60's here at work and they
are louder than a furnace, but definitely quieter than
a recip of similar power. I would estimate 65-70 dB at
10 meters, comparable to most of the HVAC equipment
surrounding the building. No ear protection required.
~fortunat
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim, you do have the EV "bug"!!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: Have I found the ultimate EV discussion list?
>
> Hey everyone
>
> Mark wrote:
> >So far everyone says it's not too big. Guess it'll be a go on the 9"
motor.
> James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Aah, don't forget that there is more than one choice in series DC motors
of
> that size. Advanced DC, Netgain, Warfield, GE and others. And don't forget
> the Jim Husted special build options. Jim, have you a suitable motor
available?
>
>
>
> Actually I have about 5 or 6 more 9's available to me. I just figured I'd
let you all feed on him for a while (or maybe the other way around) before I
piped in. Since James brought me into this, I guess I have to add my two
cents here. I think my current project might offer you some food for
thought.
>
>
>
> I just got the Okay to start my newest project, which will be a shortened
9" ADC for a conversion in Vancouver WA. This motor will be shortened down
to 15" in total length by removing 2" from the housing area. The shaft will
also need to be modified, and as I've followed these posts would allow an
extra 2" of tail shaft to stick out for one of your needs. The end plates
are going to be clear powder coated for a nice easy to clean finish. These
modifications are so the motor will fit into his conversion without having
to cut his car.
>
>
>
> This motor will sport an adjustable brush ring (Notice: I'm naming this an
ABR for short lol). For this conversion it will be static, as in advanced
by the user for his /her car and locked into that advancement. If one were
to install a servo motor to the adjusting arm of the ABR, then could you not
get it to slide from neutral for regen, to a pre-determined advancement for
driving, and then back? Making the ADC a little more regen friendly. This
seems so doable, any input?
>
>
>
> I'd like to note that the ideas and the modifications I am beginning to do
have come in large part by the suggestions and ideas of others, in addition
to reading your posts. I'm hoping to get a web site up where I can post
pics of cores looking for good homes. I plan to put up how to's and show
off what we got cooking in the pots as time goes by. I will throw up step
by step projects for those both here and abroad who might like to do it
themselves.
>
>
>
> I've heard mention of someone wanting to be able to afford one of my
motors and just so those out there know, the above described ADC 9" was
quoted below the cost of a new 9'er (any future mod's may adjust this, lol).
Just so you know I to am not going to get rich at this, but instead am
trying to do my part as a member of this community while adding some spice
to my kinda boring forklift customers. If I'm lucky I can skim off some
money for my own little EV racer. If you haven't been there go and check
out John Waylands page. The Siamese 8 is a pair of motors John and I had fun
with.
>
> www.plasmaboyracing.com
>
>
>
> This is a great site isn't it! There's one problem though! They won't
tell you how to shut the damn EV thingy in your brain as you stare up at the
ceiling thinking of new and crazy stuff, lol.
>
>
>
> Anyways welcome to the list
>
>
>
> Jim Husted
>
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
> Redmond OR.
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Even an Oldbee looks at cost per mile, that's why I use floodies in my
commuter vehicle I drive 300 miles a week. Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 2:36 PM
Subject: RE: K&W Chargers
> What is the AH capacity of an Optima G31? How do you compute cost per
mile?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Roden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 2:31 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: K&W Chargers
>
>
> On 20 Sep 2005 at 9:50, Paul G. wrote:
>
> > > Please allow me to give you some feedback about ^solid, practical,
> > > economical^ floodies.
> >
> > And slow.
>
> Hey, I said they're not for a high performance EV. ;-)
>
> It seems that some members of the AGM crowd, not all, spend a fair bit of
> time and effort knocking floodies. That's OK, we can take it; but the
> newbies should know that these solid, unassuming, modest guys do a
> reasonably decent job for people whose main goal is an EV that's
economical.
>
>
>
> Every situation is different, but by my calculations for a particular
case,
> flooded golf car batteries cost 2 cents per mile; Optima G31s cost 14
cents
> per mile. That's a huge difference! If what's driving a newbie to EVs is
> the high cost of gasoline, why steer him toward the most expensive battery
> option?
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
> send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You will also want you neg battery charger wire on the right, ( side going
to controller ) side of the shunt so you can see how many amps your putting
in and the ah meter will count back wards to 0
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I have always planned on having the charger in back, i didn't realize I
had everything set up so the most negative and most positive of the pack
are up front under the hood.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and All,
Lawrence, no I haven't and don't have the money to bid on it
though if someone would put up the money I would as it's a great EV start but
many pitfalls for those who don't understand it. Luckily I do and willing to
help others to get it done right. It would take about $25k-60k to do cheaply,
slowly or faster better to get the first out the door as a complete kit with
jusy the motor, batts for the owner to install to make it legal..
John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jerry, I think this would make an excellent platform for a
second Gen Freedom EV. At 130-150 wh/mile, a car like this
could get up to 140 miles range with about 1,200 pounds of
lead acid batteries.(Add an extra 30-50 wh/mile for added
weight)
At 100wthrs/mile and 800 lbs with over 100 mile range would be more
likely as it doesn't have the batt space for more in lead. But ni-cads or
li-ions would be the trick here for real range.
Imagine it with 29 Orbitals, HV Zilla 2k, 11'' motor, PFC50
charger, you could realistically have a $25-30k electric
musclecar that could easily do 100+ miles range and compete
with $80k ICE cars in performance. This thing would be
toying Shelby Cobras! Talk about a new American Revolution!
And for the entry level, perhaps a $20k version with an 8''
motor, PFC 20 charger, and Zilla 1k that competed with $40k
BMW and Audi 'sports cars' in performance. Not only that,
but they'd seat 4 people.
Best of all, I do believe the Sunrise is a federally
approved design. Less crash testing, less hassle.
No it's not and as you would have to modify it enough not to be a
Sunrise to be legal to do without royalties.
People would be buying such a car up like mad so long as
they new about it. What is needed is an attention to the
finish so that the body panels don't creak and groan at
speed, so that the paint has that desirable shine, and that
I believe this is the male mold for the production tooling the better
finished SS were made from or could easily be that.
the glasswork flows with the bodywork like GM's EV1 did. The
Sunrise is a great design from an engineering standpoint,
but from a marketing standpoint the aesthetics could use a
bit of work.
Yes and that would make it legal too copyright wise. Anyone truely
interested with money, E mail me.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone on the list was looking for 4" schedule 5 aluminum pipe. I
found some today, hopefully they see this message.
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7545967784>
Keith
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Haven't noticed triplicate, but many are duplicated.
> John Neiswanger
Same here; I'm getting lots of duplicate messages.
Same here; I'm getting lots of duplicate messages.
(Is there an echo? :-)
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some Chrysler models have something similar. My '90 Imperial ran off
pressure provided by a dedicated pump. It's far more expensive than
going with a vacuum pump. It's also more noisy and was recently
recalled because a slight leak would cause the pump to run until it
burned up, leaving you with no power brakes.
Tim
On Sep 20, 2005, at 8:27 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: September 20, 2005 5:28:42 PM PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Have I found the ultimate EV discussion list?
Mark Grasser wrote:
PS and PB, vacuum pump for the brakes, not sure on the Power
Steering.
I wonder if finding a pressure style power brake is a good idea,
run it with
the trans and power steering pumps. I think Audi has one. Again,
have to
check the pressures.
The newer model Mustangs also use the power steering pump for the
"power" brakes. No vacuum powered brake booster. Not sure about the
94/95 model. Nearly certain about the 96-04. Not sure on the 05/06.
I like '93 on down. :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You have TWO c60's. Four times the power and at
least as much more noise than 1 C30.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fortunat Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Microturbine generator on eBay
> --- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Really ???
> > That surprises me. I do not remember the the full
> > power DB levels...
> > The same power level military Gen carts are ear Pro
> > only.
>
> we have a couple of the C60's here at work and they
> are louder than a furnace, but definitely quieter than
> a recip of similar power. I would estimate 65-70 dB at
> 10 meters, comparable to most of the HVAC equipment
> surrounding the building. No ear protection required.
>
> ~fortunat
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Something doesn't smell right here. If the T875 has the same plates as the
T105, just 4 instead of 3, then it should have the same Ah capacity as the
current through the 4 cells would be the same as the current through the 3
cells. The T875 only weighs 1lbs more than the T105. Something doesn't add up.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:26:59 -0400
Subject: 6 volt vs 8 volt GC batteries
>From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > 18 - 8 volt Trojan T-875 batteries.
>
>I wouldn't recommend 8V batteries.
>In real life T-875 batteries are only good for about 350 amps, and that's
>only when they are fairly new and fully charged. As they age/discharge
>max current drops to 300, then 250 and then -near end of life or end of
>charge- less than 200 amps.
>This means that when new/fully charged this pack can produce roughly 46hp
>and near end of life/charge less than 21 hp.
>
>>>
6 and 8 volt GC batteries have the same exact plates, and the same number of
plates. This is according to an email from Nawaz - for the US battery line. I
have also read (on this list) that the same is true for the Trojan T-105's and
T-875's.
The plates are just arranged in 3 groups ( 3 cells) for a 6V battery and 4
groups for an 8 volt battery.
That means that they can supply exactly the same power ( not current) and will
have the same life while supplying the same power.
But, if you draw the same current from 8 volters as 6 volters, they will
provide more power but have shorter life. This may be why 8 volters generally
don't last as long. If people don't use lower battery current limits on the 8
volters, it would explain getting shorter battery life.
Also, if people are using fewer batteries, they are more likely to use 8
volters than 6 volters so as to have a higher pack voltage. This would also
contribute to more anecdotal reports of short 8 volt battery life - more power
drawn from each battery with a smaller pack ( fewer batteries).
>
>6V batteries, on the other hand, can handle 400-600 amps. Much better
>performance.
If 6 volters can handle 400 - 600 amps, then 8 volters can similarly handle
300-450 amps. (same current per plate for both situations)
And, the power per battery would be the same, so the performance should be the
same ( or very close - there might be subtle differences depending on
controller efficiency at different voltage inputs, and a change in optimum
shift points).
And, in general, higher voltage, lower current, systems are more efficient. As
an example, if you use 8 volters instead of 6 volters, you can reduce the high
current wiring size by one gauge ( and save a few pounds) and still have
slightly less power loss in the wire. Or, keep the same wire size, and have 44%
less power loss in the wiring
That's one reason car manufacturers are changing to higher voltage systems for
ICE cars. And, one reason why commercial EV's and hybrids use higher voltage
systems.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sep 21, 2005, at 9:49 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Something doesn't smell right here. If the T875 has the same plates
as the T105, just 4 instead of 3, then it should have the same Ah
capacity as the current through the 4 cells would be the same as the
current through the 3 cells. The T875 only weighs 1lbs more than the
T105. Something doesn't add up.
There are multiple plates per cell in a GC battery. If there are 8
pairs of plates per cell in a 6 volt battery then there are 6 pairs of
plates per cell in an 8 volt battery. This gets you 3/4 the amp hour
capacity and 4/3 the voltage. You end up with both batteries weighing
about the same (the 8 volt version should be slightly heavier with one
more plastic web inside and one more cell interconnect.)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's a white 1980 2-door Rabbit for sale here in Felton (Santa Cruz
County) CA. The body and paint are in really good shape, just a couple
small dings, very minor surface rust in a couple places. Dash top is
cracked (they all do this), but seats, door panels, headliner, etc. all
very good. Most of its flaws (worn shocks, noisy exhaust, possible bad
cylinder) would go away with conversion. He is asking $1,000 O.B.O. You
can contact him directly, Cy Smith, at 831-335-7514.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So go ahead and spill the beans, Jim! ;-p
No, I'm glad to finally announce some progress on the Karmann
Eclectric!
I've begun a weblog at http://www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
It's just a start, but should be fleshed out soon. An EV Album page
will soon follow.
So far, the only VW Type I or II conversion I've seen that didn't
have to cut the rear apron for motor clearance was Eric Ryan's Ghost
Dancer (Which was parted out before I got to the glider, thanks a
lot, Eric! ;-)
However, Eric used a single shaft 8" motor and Bob Batson's EV
America adaptor, which cleverly replaced the flywheel with a thinner
unit that also reduces rotating mass, but depends upon a keyway
instead of the sturdier taperlock hub. Even with a thin adaptor and
short motor, the Ghia body had to be lifted for motor installation,
and it barely tucked inside the rear apron once everything was in.
The shortened Warp 9" Impulse was very attractive, until Jim hit upon
a solution that would shorten my motor body, but still allow a
tailshaft for accessory drive within the confines of Ghia
sheetmetal. If I do add a tail pulley, I'll still have to make some
cuts on the rear apron, but at least they wont go far!
The manually Adjustable Brush Ring should allow me to hit the track
in style, and then detune for efficient street driving. If we can
add some useful regen by retarding the motorvia remote control, that
will provide the best of all worlds! Jim's other motor mods, such as
glyptal all around, upgraded insulation, and the protective power of
clearcoated end plates should go a long way towards keeping this
motor smoke-free under the strain of a stiff 336v pack of BB600
nicads and a Zilla 1k EHV controller. Thanks to Otmar's color codes
and a chip for matching, we plan to coat this case in Zilla Green.
The Zilla itself can be mounted right on top of the motor, since this
case has a bracket remaining from it's days as a forklift pump. It
should make for one tightly integrated drive system. Heat soak will
be avoided via standoff blocks and water cooling.
Grinning while standing still,
Jay Donnaway
Vancouver WA
1971 "Karmann Eclectric" coupe.
--- End Message ---
