EV Digest 4746
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Variac voltage no load vs. load.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) News: AIR Lab's Early Warning System to be Debuted at SVEAA Stanford Rally
September 24th 2005
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Discovery Channel Video of NEDRA Power of DC Race Available for Download
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Variac voltage no load vs. load.
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: AIR Lab's Early Warning System to be Debuted at SVEAA Stanford Rally
September 24th 2005
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) New Force Owner
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: AIR Lab's Early Warning System to be Debuted at SVEAA Stanford Rally
September 24th 2005
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Real world data on 8 Volt Golf Cart Batteries - or 47,000 miles in my EV
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: New Force Owner
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Albright/Curtis SW200A - 16 144v use?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Discovery Channel Video of NEDRA Power of DC Race Available for
Download
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Auto transport
by Kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) re: Discovery Channel video of NEDRA Power of DC Race available for
download
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Solectria-Sunrise Body on eBay
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: AIR Lab's Early Warning System...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: 6 volt vs 8 volt GC batteries
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) EV spotted
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 6 volt vs 8 volt GC batteries
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: AIR Lab's Early Warning System to be Debuted at SVEAA Stanford Rally
September 24th 2005
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Albright/Curtis SW200A - 16 144v use?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Jim's latest project.
by "Ray Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: AIR Lab's Early Warning System to be Debuted at SVEAA Stanford Rally
September 24th 2005
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Battery Hookup Question (Am I missing something?)
by "John J Januszewski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Battery Hookup Question (Am I missing something?)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Battery Hookup Question (Am I missing something?)
by "John J Januszewski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Need help with conceptual math
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Real world data on 8 Volt Golf Cart Batteries - or 47,000 miles in my
EV
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Need help with conceptual math
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---Lawrence Rhodes wrote: > > I just put together a 240v variac charger. I got 160vdc out of my 120v > variac. I'm lucky with no load to get 190vdc on this 240v version. I was > thinking I'd get 300vdc at least out of this thing. Is the no load a > problem? I tried all the taps. I have the highest possible voltage. How did you wire it? If you put 240vac in, the variac should *easily* produce 240 * 120% = 288vac. Rectifying this with a bridge yields 288vdc, whose peak is over 400 volts DC (what you'd get charging a capacitor or battery). -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Please visit airlabcorp.com for news details. Thank you. Ed Ang AIR Lab Corp. __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---Hi everyone,The Discovery Channel video of the NEDRA Power of DC Race held this past June is available for downloadhttp://www.exn.ca/dailyplanet/view.asp?date=9/19/2005 It's the one at the top of the page "Electrified Dragster" If you have WIndows Media 9 you can see it. It's about six minutes. Chip Gribben NEDRA Webmaster and Power of DC racing coordinator http://www.nedra.com http://www.powerofdc.com
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--- Begin Message ---On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:53:38 -0700, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Lawrence Rhodes wrote: >> >> I just put together a 240v variac charger. I got 160vdc out of my 120v >> variac. I'm lucky with no load to get 190vdc on this 240v version. I was >> thinking I'd get 300vdc at least out of this thing. Is the no load a >> problem? I tried all the taps. I have the highest possible voltage. > >How did you wire it? If you put 240vac in, the variac should *easily* >produce 240 * 120% = 288vac. Rectifying this with a bridge yields >288vdc, whose peak is over 400 volts DC (what you'd get charging a >capacitor or battery). Depends on whether the Variac has the so-called "10% taps" on the winding. Some do and some don't. If the variac has only 3 or 4 terminals, then likely it doesn't. If it has 5 or 6 terminals then it does. Variac and Powerstat brand transformers usually have a diagram on the terminal block. I have several Variac brand variacs that do not have the 10% taps. I recently acquired a rather large one that I used to regulate the power to my restaurant's steam table that does not have the taps. John --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message ---i prefer zener + led and TL431+mosfet for monitor/shunt regulator which are KISS and less thant 5$ per battery... cordialement, Philippe Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ? quel carburant choisiriez-vous ? http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:56 PM Subject: News: AIR Lab's Early Warning System to be Debuted at SVEAA Stanford Rally September 24th 2005 > Please visit airlabcorp.com for news details. > > Thank you. > > Ed Ang > AIR Lab Corp. > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com >
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--- Begin Message ---Woo-Hoo! I'm shortly going to be a proud owner of a 1997 Force with 11,000 miles and the A/C not working. I just have to have it shipped from the East Coast to California. Does anyone have recommendations on a car carrier? Getting the EV Grin! Thank you, Noel L<<winmail.dat>>
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--- Begin Message ---Interesting... That is your choice. And, it costs $5 in parts alone. And, why don't you sell it? May be it is because you have to recoop the design/testing/manufacturing costs? How about warranty/safety/support costs? Inventory? Repair? Risk cost? Liability? etc... And, we still have to eat to survive? And, you wonder why almost no company is willing to sell products in this field? I am sorry to be this frank with you, but if no company could money, there won't be an industry. You are not helping the situation. I am starting to think that EV's are doomed from the beginning. And, GM, Ford, and Toyota are right. They are right, no one wants or is willing to pay for EV's. Your comments are extremely irresponsible. And, seeing it on this group makes it even more sad. Ed Ang AIR Lab Corp. --- Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > i prefer zener + led and TL431+mosfet for > monitor/shunt regulator which are > KISS and less thant 5$ per battery... > > cordialement, > Philippe > > Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du > volant ? > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ? > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr > Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:56 PM > Subject: News: AIR Lab's Early Warning System to be > Debuted at SVEAA > Stanford Rally September 24th 2005 > > > > Please visit airlabcorp.com for news details. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Ed Ang > > AIR Lab Corp. > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---Well I've been meaning to post my emperical battery data for a while, and the recent resurgence of the 8V/6V debate pushed me over the edge... I now have over 47,000 miles in my converted Civic. Car normally uses 18 8 volt golf cart batteries for 144 volts. My second set was the US 8VGC-HC where I installed two additioal batteries in battery boxes behind the front seats, concluded the extra batteries were not worth it. Third set was T875's and the fourth (currrent) set the T890's Below is a summary from actual data taken on my 43 miles commute to work, recharge at work, and 43 miles home. 86 miles a day every day speeds from stop and go to 65 mph. Battery pack end of life was defined as "limping into work with barely enough energy and hoping I can get home one more time..." Near the end of each pack life, bad batterys were removed, leaving a bigger load on the ones remaining, but could usually get 300 to 500 more miles by doing this. Of course if I had a shorter distance between charges probabally could have gone a lot more miles. Here is the data summary: Type US8V-GC US8V-GCHC T875 T890 Year 2002 2003 2004 2005 miles 12200 14200 16203 5000 so far Average WH/M 215 227 224 205 Range to 80% 51.4 60 54 57.3 Initial end trip voltage at 15A 142.5 151 143.5 144 Final end trip voltage at 15A 136.5 144 138 143 so far Number of batteries 18 20 18 18 pounds 1161 1380 1134 1242 cost 940 1098 1168 1494 miles per pound 10.51 10.29 14.29 ? Miles per dollar (US) 12.98 12.93 13.87 ? Cents per mile (US) 0.077 0.077 0.072 ? I've been very happy with all the batteries so far except the US8V-GC-HC's. The higher level of plates and acid resulted in greater acid leaking from the battery during use. They had a significtly stonger oder and acid residue than any of the others. When I get to 50,000 miles I'd write a longer piece telling all the interesting incidents. Happy EV'ing Lynn
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--- Begin Message ---Try Able Transport. I think they are base in Little Rock but it's been awhile. At the time their price was by far the lowest. Gar Harris
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--- Begin Message ---Rush wrote: > If I understand you correctly the potbox microswitch should be wired > in series with the 12 v power going to the contactor so that when > you let up on the accelerator and it goes back to rest position, > the contactor is turned off? > > Doesn't that make for lots of on/off cycles for the contactor and > also wear on the contacts? Having the contactor turn off when you release the accellerator pedal is the safest arrangement. It's what you naturally will do if/when the controller ever fails fully "on". Yes, you do hear the click-clunk as it pulls in and drops out each time you use the accellerator pedal. But if the contactor is not mounted to a "sounding board" and/or is in a box it is hardly noticeable. No, the contacts won't wear out any sooner. The contactor is switching at no current (unless there's a fault), and is built to last millions of cycles this way. You need a precharge resistor across the contact, so the controller won't lose its precharge while you are stopped. People who care more about the noise will wire it so the contactor is operated by the brake pedal (drops when you step on the brakes), or (not so smart) so it is always on whenever the key is on. -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Very cool! I will show it around. David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)"I live in the heavens. I reside on mountain tops. I am at constant vigil over thee. I monitor thy righteous ways. Thy levels art mine to command. When thou art in trouble, I will help thee through distorted times. When thou art low, the touch of my hand shall raise thy spirit to the proper level. When thou are too high, I shall terminate thee with a swift stroke of my sword. When thy wires are frayed and broken, my angels shall use solder and iron to heal thee. Thou art the circuit, I am the chosen one, I am the TECH CONTROLLER!"----- Original Message ----- From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 12:22 PMSubject: Discovery Channel Video of NEDRA Power of DC Race Available for DownloadHi everyone,The Discovery Channel video of the NEDRA Power of DC Race held this past June is available for downloadhttp://www.exn.ca/dailyplanet/view.asp?date=9/19/2005 It's the one at the top of the page "Electrified Dragster" If you have WIndows Media 9 you can see it. It's about six minutes. Chip Gribben NEDRA Webmaster and Power of DC racing coordinator http://www.nedra.com http://www.powerofdc.com
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--- Begin Message ---I **do not** recommend A-1 Auto Transport, ostensibly located in Nevada, but actually headquartered in Watsonville California. **DANGER WILL ROBINSON!! DANGER!!** (Yes, I did sue them, and yes, I did collect, but most people don't) Kluge
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--- Begin Message ---The direct link is: mms://media.exn.ca/exnmedia/exn20050920-drag.asf > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chip Gribben > Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:22 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Discovery Channel Video of NEDRA Power of DC Race > Available for Download > > Hi everyone, > > The Discovery Channel video of the NEDRA Power of DC Race > held this past June is available for download > > http://www.exn.ca/dailyplanet/view.asp?date=9/19/2005 > > It's the one at the top of the page "Electrified Dragster" > > If you have WIndows Media 9 you can see it. It's about six minutes. > > > Chip Gribben > NEDRA Webmaster and Power of DC racing coordinator > http://www.nedra.com http://www.powerofdc.com >
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--- Begin Message ---jerry dycus wrote: > It may be the mold they made the production molds from as that is how > it should be done, putting together a structural body/chassis so when > the tooling is done, everything fits.Um, so is the object on eBay an actual body that could be used to build into a complete car, or is it "just" the mold? Or one builds it into a complete car and then takes apart again to use as a mold?Ricky Suiter wrote:I could be wrong, but was that the car that was on eBay a while back> for something like 50 grand?The one previously on eBay (and EV Tading' Post, etc?) was indeed a complete car:"Make: Solectria SunriseDescription: Purchased used in 2000 with 5,000 miles. Bought as a demonstration vehicle, but never used it. It was placed in a storage building for last 5 years. Now we are moving out of building and must sell. We purchased the vehicle for $250,000. Now must sell, asking $100,000. Will negotiate. Vehicle does not come with batteries"I don't know what became of this one. But definitely different from the body on eBay now.-- Jim Coate 1970's Elec-Trak's 1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel http://www.eeevee.com
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--- Begin Message ---> i prefer zener + led and TL431+mosfet for monitor/shunt regulator which are > KISS and less thant 5$ per battery... > > cordialement, > Philippe > For non-engineers like me, what is the circuit/specs/part values? I could put it on my site and post the link if you have something other than ASCII.
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--- Begin Message ---MarkI thought that to then said wait. Same amount in the whole battery, divided into 4 cells instead of 3. Made sense then.Subject: Re: 6 volt vs 8 volt GC batteriesSomething doesn't smell right here. If the T875 has the same plates as the T105, just 4 instead of 3, then it should have the same Ah capacity as the current through the 4 cells would be the same as the current through the 3 cells. The T875 only weighs 1lbs more than the T105. Something doesn't add up.Steve -----Original Message----- From: Phil Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:26:59 -0400 Subject: 6 volt vs 8 volt GC batteriesFrom: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > 18 - 8 volt Trojan T-875 batteries. I wouldn't recommend 8V batteries. In real life T-875 batteries are only good for about 350 amps, and that's only when they are fairly new and fully charged. As they age/discharge max current drops to 300, then 250 and then -near end of life or end of charge- less than 200 amps. This means that when new/fully charged this pack can produce roughly 46hp and near end of life/charge less than 21 hp.6 and 8 volt GC batteries have the same exact plates, and the same number of plates. This is according to an email from Nawaz - for the US battery line. I have also read (on this list) that the same is true for the Trojan T-105's and T-875's.The plates are just arranged in 3 groups ( 3 cells) for a 6V battery and 4 groups for an 8 volt battery.That means that they can supply exactly the same power ( not current) and will have the same life while supplying the same power.But, if you draw the same current from 8 volters as 6 volters, they will provide more power but have shorter life. This may be why 8 volters generally don't last as long. If people don't use lower battery current limits on the 8 volters, it would explain getting shorter battery life.Also, if people are using fewer batteries, they are more likely to use 8 volters than 6 volters so as to have a higher pack voltage. This would also contribute to more anecdotal reports of short 8 volt battery life - more power drawn from each battery with a smaller pack ( fewer batteries).6V batteries, on the other hand, can handle 400-600 amps. Much better performance.If 6 volters can handle 400 - 600 amps, then 8 volters can similarly handle 300-450 amps. (same current per plate for both situations) And, the power per battery would be the same, so the performance should be the same ( or very close - there might be subtle differences depending on controller efficiency at different voltage inputs, and a change in optimum shift points).And, in general, higher voltage, lower current, systems are more efficient. As an example, if you use 8 volters instead of 6 volters, you can reduce the high current wiring size by one gauge ( and save a few pounds) and still have slightly less power loss in the wire. Or, keep the same wire size, and have 44% less power loss in the wiringThat's one reason car manufacturers are changing to higher voltage systems for ICE cars. And, one reason why commercial EV's and hybrids use higher voltage systems.Phil _________________________________________________________________Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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--- Begin Message --- Does anyone on this list have a pretty blue Civic with full fender skirts, and likes to cruise around the Cupertino/DeAnza area?David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)"I live in the heavens. I reside on mountain tops. I am at constant vigil over thee. I monitor thy righteous ways. Thy levels art mine to command. When thou art in trouble, I will help thee through distorted times. When thou art low, the touch of my hand shall raise thy spirit to the proper level. When thou are too high, I shall terminate thee with a swift stroke of my sword. When thy wires are frayed and broken, my angels shall use solder and iron to heal thee. Thou art the circuit, I am the chosen one, I am the TECH CONTROLLER!"
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--- Begin Message ---On 2005-09-21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Something doesn't smell right here. If the T875 has the same plates > as the T105, just 4 instead of 3, then it should have the same Ah > capacity as the current through the 4 cells would be the same as > the current through the 3 cells. Same Watt-hour capacity. Wh = Ah * V. 3/4 the Amp-hour capacity (each cell has 3/4 as many plates) 4/3 the volts. 3/4 * 4/3 = 1. -----sharks -- "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish, and you can sell him equipment." -- Avram Grumer
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--- Begin Message ---Edward Ang [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > You are not helping the situation. I am starting to > think that EV's are doomed from the beginning. And, > GM, Ford, and Toyota are right. They are right, no > one wants or is willing to pay for EV's. > > Your comments are extremely irresponsible. And, > seeing it on this group makes it even more sad. Relax Edward. This forum is exactly where one would expect to see comments like Phillipe's: it is a forum for hobbiests who are building their own EVs and for the most part are willing to or are forced by necessity (or tight budget ;^) to build their own chargers or battery monitors, etc. No one expects you to offer a product at a loss, but at the same time you can't expect every hobbiest to buy a product that is necessarily high priced due to being hand built in low volume for a non-existent market. (These are general comments, since you haven't, as far as I know, even quoted a price for your EWS yet.) While it would be great to see Rich selling thousands of his regulators, or you selling hundreds or thousands of your EWS, the unfortunate reality is that most hobbiests are unwilling or unable to pay the price for these devices. More important to the success of EVs (in terms of our hobbiest efforts creating a public demand for EVs) is that *some* form of battery management system get used on more EVs than that either you or Rich or any other among us makes a living selling such devices. If someone on the list publishes a design that costs $5/battery to implement and *some* of us build them and use them, and this results in more reliable EVs than otherwise, then this is a good thing. There will always be those who prefer not to build things themselves, or place sufficient value on their time that it makes sense to buy a commercial solution such as yours, and this just increases the number of more reliable EVs out there. Fact is that thre is always going to be some competition, and in this case you are competing with DIYers when you try to sell to the hobbiest EV market. Competition is good; maybe if there were some competition for battery regulators we'd be able to buy Rudman regs or their equivalent for $5/node and at that price every EVer might use them. (Rich can't hand build them in small quantities for that price, but make no mistake, they could be built *much* less expensively than at present.) I suspect that you may have good success marketing your EWS to Sparrow owners, but less success with the hobbiest market. If you can make a solid, quantifiable case of the cost savings resulting directly from the use of the EWS, you might even market it successfully to NEV OEMs (some of whom use sealed batteries). I look forward to hearing more about your system and wish you the best of luck marketing it! Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message -------- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Hart" <Doesn't that make for lots of on/off cycles for the contactor and also wear on the contacts?Having the contactor turn off when you release the accellerator pedal is the safest arrangement. It's what you naturally will do if/when the controller ever fails fully "on".On my list of things to check when an ev won't go is that micro switch , maybe having a diode across the contactor coil helps but that switch seems to be in the top 10 things that go bad . There's probable another way but the switch is so common , there in micro wave ovens ,,ect .steve clunn
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--- Begin Message ---After messing around with various rear engined Fiats I came to the conclusion that VW was stupid not to have made the rear panel detachable to ease motor maintenance and r&r. > So far, the only VW Type I or II conversion I've seen that didn't > have to cut the rear apron for motor clearance was Eric
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--- Begin Message ---Hi Edward and All, Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Interesting... That is your choice. And, it costs $5 in parts alone. And, why don't you sell it? The biggest problem with Phillipe's design is it, the zener, is not temp, voltage, current stable thus not giving accurate enough regulation to do the job. And yours does much more than his by a long shot and looks interesting if priced right as it's as much a monitoring system than just a regulator. It looks like a good system for AGM's. Now you know what Rich has been fighting all these yrs as he switched to a more expensive product, profitable to sell. May be it is because you have to recoop the design/testing/manufacturing costs? How about warranty/safety/support costs? Inventory? Repair? Risk cost? Liability? etc... And, we still have to eat to survive? Not to mention sales, education costs which are rather high. I had a nice windgen design Imstarted manufacturing that still beats the present designs but education costs to sell it doomed it so never did that type of product again and went back to building boats. Instead I chose the Freedom Ev that has a large market, profit with no competition. It helps that it sells itself. HTH's, Jerry Dycus And, you wonder why almost no company is willing to sell products in this field? I am sorry to be this frank with you, but if no company could money, there won't be an industry. Ed Ang AIR Lab Corp. --- Philippe Borges wrote: > i prefer zener + led and TL431+mosfet for > monitor/shunt regulator which are > KISS and less thant 5$ per battery... > > cordialement, > Philippe > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Edward Ang" > > > > Please visit airlabcorp.com for news details. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Ed Ang > > AIR Lab Corp. > > --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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--- Begin Message ---Hello folks,Sorry if this has been answered before. The search feature in the archive is tedius at best for finding answers. Type in battery connnections and just about every post comes up because the word bettery is used in just about every post. Anyways... The question. Preceded by a statment or two.I plan on having two 144V strings of batteries. Each will be two rows of six positioned so the connections can run pos to neg down one side and up the other with a disconncect at one end (to split the pack for servicing) and the two cables coming out the other end to go to Zilla, via contactors. With the batts positioned right, the two cables and their connecting bolts will be two battery widths apart at the end closest to the controller.I have read somewhere that this is not a good idea because of the voltage potential at the one end could cause some kind of arcing problem. Yet, the cable connects on my Zilla for the B+ and B- are about an inch apart. If there were to be a problem with arcing, I would think it would happen there.Am I missinterpreting the "potential" problem? Are there other contributing factors that I am missing?Thank YouJohn J
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--- Begin Message ---John J Januszewski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > With the batts positioned right, the two cables and their > connecting bolts will be two battery widths apart at the > end closest to the controller. > > I have read somewhere that this is not a good idea because > of the voltage potential at the one end could cause some > kind of arcing problem. Yet, the cable connects on my > Zilla for the B+ and B- are about an inch apart. If > there were to be a problem with arcing, I would think it > would happen there. > > Am I missinterpreting the "potential" problem? Are there > other contributing factors that I am missing? I think the concern is not with spontaneous arcing through the air, but rather arcing should the connections be closer together than, say, a wrench length; drop a wrench and it could span the full pack voltage which could be rather more exciting than "just" shorting a single battery. There may also be some concern that if connections presenting full pack voltage are relatively close together it may increase the odds of someone inadvertantly getting zapped with (near) full pack voltage while servicing the batteries. You've state that each of your strings will include a disconnect at the midpoint, which if used religiously will significantly reduce these concerns given that you've also stated that there will be contactors between the -ve and +ve ends of the string and the controller/loads. Hope this helps, Roger.
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--- Begin Message --- Perfect... I'll proceed as planed and do the plasti-dip thing to the dedicated batt wrenches as mentioned in "Convert It!" That, with the cutoff switches should keep the accidents away.Thank you Roger John J Januszewski www.jcomposites.com----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:41 PM Subject: RE: Battery Hookup Question (Am I missing something?)John J Januszewski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:With the batts positioned right, the two cables and their connecting bolts will be two battery widths apart at the end closest to the controller. I have read somewhere that this is not a good idea because of the voltage potential at the one end could cause some kind of arcing problem. Yet, the cable connects on my Zilla for the B+ and B- are about an inch apart. If there were to be a problem with arcing, I would think it would happen there. Am I missinterpreting the "potential" problem? Are there other contributing factors that I am missing?I think the concern is not with spontaneous arcing through the air, but rather arcing should the connections be closer together than, say, a wrench length; drop a wrench and it could span the full pack voltage which could be rather more exciting than "just" shorting a single battery. There may also be some concern that if connections presenting full pack voltage are relatively close together it may increase the odds of someone inadvertantly getting zapped with (near) full pack voltage while servicing the batteries. You've state that each of your strings will include a disconnect at the midpoint, which if used religiously will significantly reduce these concerns given that you've also stated that there will be contactors between the -ve and +ve ends of the string and the controller/loads. Hope this helps, Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---There is some detail or too many unknown variables that stifle me when I attempt to figure these out. My current situation is a 2001 Ranger with a 4cyl/5spd. Commute for school is 50 miles round trip unfortunately. Truck averages 20 mpg... Fuel might be $5/gal or more(or no fuel at all..) with this Houston hurricane. At what fuel price point do I actually save money by having this vehicle be electric? How long does it take to pay off the conversion cost in fuel savings? How much will it cost to recharge it 5+ days a week? Potential conversion items: Zilla, PFC charger, a 9" motor(or some other size if that would be better) from Jim Husted that costs less then an ADC, any batteries and amount. Could put them under the bed or in the bed or both. 25 miles there, and 25 back, can't charge there. Nearly all highway. 60, 65, an 70 mph limits. I will do it if the figures show a savings over time. Will this be cost worthy?
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--- Begin Message ---Adams, Lynn wrote: > Type 8V-GC 8V-GCHC T875 T890 > Year 2002 2003 2004 2005 > miles 12200 14200 16203 5000 so far > cost 940 1098 1168 1494 A non EV'r(my Dad for example) would look at that and say "well look at that battery replacement cost". That's nothing compared to the alternative which is fuel cost: 2001 Ford Ranger 4cyl/5spd, 20 mpg: Costs me $30 a week to fill it up at $2.xx/gal 52 weeks in a year = $1,560 Hmmm.... Electric wins? It looks like it too me.
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--- Begin Message ---Heres a nice graph that compairs the cost per mile at various levels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_electric_vehicle#Efficiency It was originally from avt.inel.gov/fvgvc.html which doesn't seem to exist any longer. Anyway I've taken the liberty to "Update" it from the original maximum gas price of $2.30 to $2.55/gallon at which point it became clear that I was simply running out of room. The electric side of the graph only went up half way to a maximum of $0.31/kWh. Anyway, it looks like a whole new graph is needed to account for the current $3/gal and the potential of what? $4, $5, howabout $6? But you can see pretty clearly where things are headed... It's simple to see how this happens. 1. The EV uses 1/2 to 1/4 the energy, and 2. the energy if cheaper and less "Volatile", among other things. Your truck might fall into the 2 mi/kWh area if it were an EV. So, unless you pay $2 per kWh you're already way beyond that point. For referance I pay $0.06/kWh. L8r Ryan Ryan Stotts wrote: > There is some detail or too many unknown variables that stifle me when > I attempt to figure these out. > > My current situation is a 2001 Ranger with a 4cyl/5spd. Commute for > school is 50 miles round trip unfortunately. Truck averages 20 mpg... > > Fuel might be $5/gal or more(or no fuel at all..) with this Houston hurricane. > > At what fuel price point do I actually save money by having this > vehicle be electric? How long does it take to pay off the conversion > cost in fuel savings? How much will it cost to recharge it 5+ days a > week? > > Potential conversion items: > > Zilla, PFC charger, a 9" motor(or some other size if that would be > better) from Jim Husted that costs less then an ADC, any batteries and > amount. Could put them under the bed or in the bed or both. > > 25 miles there, and 25 back, can't charge there. Nearly all highway. > 60, 65, an 70 mph limits. > > I will do it if the figures show a savings over time. Will this be cost > worthy? >
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