EV Digest 4756
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Vacuum Booster
by reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
by "stU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Peugeot 206 + 15kW Siemens (copy, with US units)
by Matthew Trevaskis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Crimping, My Style
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: article: Subaru Parent Sets Timeline for Electric-Car
Development
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Peugeot 206 + 15kW Siemens (copy, with US units)
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 2006 FL NEDRA Race - early details
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Which Nedra class?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: 2006 FL NEDRA Race - early details
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: creaky rear struts in VoltsRabbit - slightly O.T.
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: article: Subaru Parent Sets Timeline for Electric-Car Development
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Which Nedra class?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 2006 FL NEDRA Race - early details
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BadFishRacing)
21) Advice on getting motocycle glider for an EV
by Mark Dodrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) for sale 914 porsche
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Advice on getting motocycle glider for an EV
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Which Nedra class?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Which Nedra class?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Fwd: Help for Pardeep?
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
you are right of course about air brakes - trucks are usually failsafe brakes on
i get your point about air being everywhere but the preasure available is only
100psi or so
on a bigger scale you could use a decent size bottle for running all sorts of
pnumatic systems like linear actuators etc which have a certain cool factor
like air clutch actuators auto tyre inflaters etc gear shifters etc
reb
Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Actiually, the air brakes I am familiar with are spring applied and air
released. That is why those wild skids occasionally on the highway when
someone looses pressure all of a sudden.
The electric vacuum pumps are order items, at least around here. so if
one goes out, you are down. {well everything is getting to be to work on
your car on sat start ordering on monday :-( } air compressors are
all over the place both at gas stations and as 12volt inflators at
autozones, etc.
I just thought it might be a good option for vehicles tight on space,
needing to be really light, like racing(though they usually eliminate
the booster) and if you already have on board air.
I also think storage of vacuum is limited, once the tank is evacuated,
thats the volume you got. My guess is that that is equivilant to 14 psi
at that volume.
Pintball idea is a little out there but I take a paintball tank at 3000
psi 3000/14 = 214 activations! I wouldn't even expect to get half
that because of the volume and it would probably not be practal to go
fill it but how about this. a 1 Cu ft tank at 100PSI with a regulator to
14 for the booster. the 100 psi is available for adjusting the ride
hight on air bags or air shocks and for keeping your tires topped off.
The 12V el-cheepo air compressor is used if tank drops below 30psi, or
the paintball tank is used if same thing occurs, Other than that you
charge the 100psi when you charge the batteries. Of course I have air at
home and at work.
Last night I got a booster and I mad a little plug with 2 orings, I
plann to play on the bench with it just to see if the theory is sound.
---------------------------------
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo!
Security Centre.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As always, a measured, thoughtful, reasoned analysis. Thanks again, Lee.
First, I was not thinking of just an open battery box up front.
More in the way of an extended roll cage with skin concept integrated into
the car's frame below the hood line. We must also consider the
headlights/radiator.
Second, the extension would not be more than the width of 2-3 batteries.
That works out to about 9 - 60 pound batteries or 540 pounds.
If you placed 600 pounds or less up front and some more towards the rear,
you could use this active ballast to trim your car for the best weight
distribution.
Spring/shocks would have to be beefed up.
As for EV reputation, a well designed, well balanced, good handling
EV/hybrid, with a built in safety shock absorber up front, might be a good
thing.
As a real bonus, imagine how easy the batteries could be accessed and
possibly switched at battery 'filling' stations.
I am presently thinking retrofit, but a design placing the batteries 'under
the hood' would be neat.
stU
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 4:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
Danny Miller wrote:
> My thoughts exactly. Just because batteries are safe when handled
> correctly sure doesn't mean they can't be made dangerous. All it
> would take is one tap and you've got acid, boiling vapor from the
> internal shorts, and possibly fire. Hazmat is likely. An easy way
> to give EVs a bad reputation.
Except that car batteries are routinely mounted in the "crush" space
under the hood of cars, and routinely get smashed in accidents. Nothing
particularly bad happens when you crush a lead-acid battery -- certainly
it's far less dangerous than gasoline, antifreeze, motor oil, or
transmission fluid. If it was an AGM that was crushed, there wouldn't
even be any acid spill.
As I recall, the hasmat proceedure for a lead-acid battery is "pick up
the pieces, neutralize with baking soda, and wash it away with plenty of
water".
Lead acid batteries won't burn; their water content is more likely to
extinguish a fire.
Shorting a fully-charged battery can boil the electrolyte, so there is
some risk of burns from steam. The case can also rupture from the
internal pressure. But they don't store enough energy to boil it all
away.
--
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
-- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Weight behind the rear axle or in front of the front axle will give the
vehicle a high polar moment of inertia. The vehicle will tend to respond
slowly and understeer in corners. However, once the car begins to corner,
it will take more effort on behalf of the drive to correct. A sluggish
handling car is not desirable. This is one reason why automotive engineers
seek to keep the weight between the wheels.
I suggest before you design and build a scratch-built a vehicle, that you
learn about suspension geometry and chassis design:
"How to make your car handle" - Fred Phun
"Chassis Engineering" - Herb Adams
"Race Car Vehicle Dynamics" - Milliken and Milliken
These are some of the many books available. They are all race car books,
but are **very** applicable to road cars as well.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of stu
Sent: September 24, 2005 8:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
Thinking about the 70/30 weight ratio as a goal for a hybrid 3 wheeler, I
wonder if there is a way to build a battery box way up front and the way of
supporting 500-600 pounds.
BTW The batteries may be a good shock absorber in a crash.
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It might make the EV a bit safer in a head-on crash. But, It's more
important that the front end of a vehicle be "crushable" to absorb energy (
and slow the vehicle down gradually) than massive.
Also, all that weight up front might look more like a battering ram to any
car that you hit. It might be safer for you but much more dangerous for the
other car.
Phil
From: "stu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 23:05:06 -0400
Thinking about the 70/30 weight ratio as a goal for a hybrid 3 wheeler, I
wonder if there is a way to build a battery box way up front and the way of
supporting 500-600 pounds.
BTW The batteries may be a good shock absorber in a crash.
BoyntonStu
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Don and All,
Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Weight behind the rear axle or in front of the front axle will give the
vehicle a high polar moment of inertia. The vehicle will tend to respond
slowly and understeer in corners. However, once the car begins to corner,
it will take more effort on behalf of the drive to correct. A sluggish
handling car is not desirable. This is one reason why automotive engineers
seek to keep the weight between the wheels.
Well said Don. Polar moment is even more a problem in a 3wh vehicle
in which this kind of out front weight placement can be dangerous.
I suggest before you design and build a scratch-built a vehicle, that you
learn about suspension geometry and chassis design:
"How to make your car handle" - Fred Phun
"Chassis Engineering" - Herb Adams
"Race Car Vehicle Dynamics" - Milliken and Milliken
These are some of the many books available. They are all race car books,
but are **very** applicable to road cars as well.
Yes, this is not the place to go into vehicle dynamics and do a full
course on car handling. Only a cursory mentions here are appropreite.
Those needing more should go to another list for deeper learning on
this as this is an EV list. Especially when the said person has been told this
stuff several times making people wonder why he is still asking. He should go
back and reread all the previous posts and other books., sources and not keep
asking this OT stuff here.
One must by now wonder if he is just trying to get attention.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of stu
Sent: September 24, 2005 8:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
Thinking about the 70/30 weight ratio as a goal for a hybrid 3 wheeler, I
wonder if there is a way to build a battery box way up front and the way of
supporting 500-600 pounds.
BTW The batteries may be a good shock absorber in a crash.
BoyntonStu
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Osmo,
The Peugeot 106 (1050kg unladen, 120V Saft NiCad pack) has a 20kW peak sepex
DC motor (13kW continuous I think) and is great around town and is good for
50mph on fairly flat roads, but it does slow down to about 40mph on the
steeper hills around here. It's not often that I encounter these hills and
they usually have passing lanes, so it's not too bad! I couldn't tell you
the gradient of these hills but hill climbing in town is fantastic!
The Peugeot Partner van/Citroen Berlingo (1450kg unladen, 162V Saft NiCad
pack) has a 27kW peak version of the same motor (20kW continuous) and you
really notice the difference: 60mph and wheel-spinning torque! Driving it
unladen (as I normally do) it eats up the hills that the 106 finds difficult
with barely noticeable speed reduction.
The 106 feels underpowered when climbing hills at speed, but the Berlingo
rarely feels that way. It is much more an equal of the ICE versions. Only
problem is that at higher speeds (>40mph) the poor aerodynamics eat energy
very quickly! Have made a significant improvement in energy consumption by
changing to the latest low rolling resistance tyres (Continental
EcoContact3)
Matt
--
Matthew Trevaskis
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
For electric vehicles, recharging installations and accessories
ecodrive PO Box 255 Penzance TR18 9AA
Tel: 0845 4-NO-FUEL (0845 466 3835)
Fax*: 0845 466 4624
http://www.eco-drive.co.uk
*Fax modem will receive faxes electronically (without using paper) 8am-6pm
Mon-Sat
> From: Osmo Sarin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 21:31:07 +0300
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Peugeot 206 + 15kW Siemens (copy, with US units)
>
>> 3. make sure you consider holding speed going up a hill. For me, I do
>> not
>> like it when going up a hill and the car slowly grinds to a crawl.
>
> I forgot to mention hill climbing in my requirements, maybe because I
> don´t know what "uphill-%" I should use. (I´ve planned to go with a
> long spirit level to some road hill to find this out - I hope the
> authorities won´t pick me up... :) But the hills are not very big in my
> area. All the main roads are flat, the biggest hills are on smaller
> roads where the speed is about 60 km/h.
>
> I´ve used 2 % in my calculations, which gives total power 35kW in
> constant 110 km/h speed.
>
> Anyway, I would like to keep it up with the traffic also on hills. Do I
> understand correctly that you would like to have a bit more power on
> your Beetle, Don?
>
> Then about acceleration: I don´t quite understand what does it mean
> when my excel (like your drivepower.xls, which didn´t open correctly in
> my mac, so I made my own) shows that on let say 80 km/h the power
> needed to accelerate with a rate "6 sec 0-50 km/h" is 48 kW. Is it the
> power needed to accelerate
> a) from 0 to 80 km/h
> b) from 30 to 80 km/h (80-50=30)
> (c) from 80 to 130 km/h)
>
> Or am I confusing power and energy here...
>
> Osmo
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bill,
Push the wire into the lug as far as it can go. Do a test strip of the wire
and see how far in it will go. You want the insulation of the wire to butt up
tight against the lug.
If the wire insulation is back too far from the terminal lug, than trim the
strip wire back some. Take a reference measurement for doing all the others.
If you crimping terminal lugs by your self, than its best to hold the terminal
lug in a insulated jaw vice so as to mar the surface. Install the crimper on
the lug and push the wire into the lug by yourself or another person, keeping
pressure on the wire into the lug.
If you have another person and no vise, which is normal for electrical line man
in the field, than one person holds the lug onto the wire applying pressure of
the wire into the lug. Can lease the terminal and wire after the start of the
initial crimp which should now hold the wire into the terminal.
If the terminal lug is a double crimp type, where there is two reference lines
on the terminal, crimp the first back towards the insulation and then crimp
again towards the ring of the lug.
Even if the lug does not have a double reference line on it and if you crimper
does 1/4 inch wide crimps and your lug is of a heavy duty type with a longer
barrel then a short type, it is best to double crimps. If your crimper is a
long 3/4 to 1 inch crimp die on it, then one crimp is done.
The long one crimp long dies we used on heavy duty terminal lugs are normally
used with power type crimpers.
Your crimper may be a ratchet type like we used which is a Thomas and Bettes
type that have 8 different size wire dies. If its this type, then keep pumping
the handles until the ratchet releases. When you get to the last pump before
it releases, your may have to applied very hard pressure to make it released.
After doing 1000's of crimps, the handles have a slight bend to it and the
ratchet catch is broken, which I will have to repair.
I still can crimp 2/0 heavy duty terminal lugs without the ratchet, but some
times, you will need a gorilla to help you.
The reason when a double crimp is done where you crimp the rear butt end first,
is if you crimp the front end towards the terminal ring first, you might not
have enough wire or in not far enough, that it might pinch the end of the wire,
making it slip back out of the barrel.
Remember to slip on your heat shrink before you put on the second terminal lug
onto the cable. Some heat shrink will not slip over the terminal lug to get it
on.
Roland
From: Bill Dennis<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 10:29 PM
Subject: Crimping, My Style
I've never done crimping before, so I just want to make sure I'm going it
right. I've got a crimper. The lugs for my 2/0 cable are circular for
about 3/4 inch, then taper down toward the bolt hole. Do I cut 3/4 inch
back on the insulation and insert the cable until it reaches the start of
the taper? Or do I cut off more than 3/4 inch of insulation and jam some of
the stranded wire as far as I can into the taper?
Many neophyte thanks,
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is not clear from the article if this is just another NEV or a
real electric car with capability to highway speeds. I Texas it
really needs to do 45 to even go to the grocery store.
At 9/23/2005 09:41 PM, you wrote:
Courtesy of Jalopnik:
http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/alternative-energy/subaru-parent-sets-timeline-for-electriccar-development-127242.php
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Osmo, the New Beetle accelerates 0-50kmh in under 6 seconds on the flats.
It weighs 1700kg loaded and has a Siemens 5133 that is 30kW nominal and 78kw
peak, with the Simovert short controller.
The New Beetle has reasonable acceleration up hills. If I could do it
again, I would convert a lighter vehicle. Less power required for
acceleration and hill climbing.
When I was trying to determine a motor/controller combination for the New
Beetle, Victor recommended the 5105WS12 which is a smaller 18kW rated motor.
He indicated that any of the motors will put out the max power of the
inverter. The larger size motor is needed for longer hills. I have two
such particular hills in my area and am pleased with the combination I have
purchased.
Maybe Victor can comment.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Osmo Sarin
Sent: September 24, 2005 1:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Peugeot 206 + 15kW Siemens (copy, with US units)
...sorry I forgot to add US units. Here´s the message again:
-------
I´m planning to convert Peugeot 206 as my first project, and I´ve been
offered a Siemens 1LH5118 AC motor with 15 kW rated, 123 Nm max, and
Simovert 6SV1 short inverter (110-380 V, max DC 280 A, max 80 kW).
According to my own calculations (which may be incorrect) I would need much
more power, but the seller says 15 kW is enough for my requirements, which
are:
-total weight (with passengers) 1400 kg (3090 lbs) -top speed 110 km/h (68
mph) -acceleration 6 sec 0-50 km/h (0-31 mph) = normal ICE-acc.
-voltage about 300 V
I´d appreciate any comments,
Osmo Sarin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Waggoner"early details
Hey Everyone,
I have the early official details for the 2006 NEDRA race in Florida.
great news , Now what are we going to need to have on our cars to be able
to race , ?
I'll have a 2k zilla in my Porsche 924 by then. :-)
steve clunn ,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While I respect Lee's information I must point a small
error in this thought. Haz-mat is based on volume not
necessarily content. You are correct when considering
1 battery. However with 9 12v batteries we are talking
108 volts not 12 volts( 108v 65AH 7 KWH). And 9
litters not 1 litter of Sulfuric. And batteries do
explode ( that is force contents to travel in outward
direction) the the potential energy from 108 volts
could set the gas in the other car off. If 6 volt
batteries we think there is even more acid and greater
amperage ( 54v 200ahs or 10 KWH of power)
While it won't be a fire/ flame explosion, 10 KWH
would frighten and possibly injure others and may set
off the other cars fuel.
Calculations based on 9 battery up front statement
made by Stu. Liter of acid based on volume used when
buying my last new car battery which had to have acid
added before install. And Haz mat information base on
J.T Baker Hazardous Spill control training and
certificate.
explosion experience base off friend who's battery
exploded in his face because he failed to turn power
off his charger prior to disconnecting it in an
enclosed garage.
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Danny Miller wrote:
> > My thoughts exactly. Just because batteries are
> safe when handled
> > correctly sure doesn't mean they can't be made
> dangerous. All it
> > would take is one tap and you've got acid, boiling
> vapor from the
> > internal shorts, and possibly fire. Hazmat is
> likely. An easy way
> > to give EVs a bad reputation.
>
> Except that car batteries are routinely mounted in
> the "crush" space
> under the hood of cars, and routinely get smashed in
> accidents. Nothing
> particularly bad happens when you crush a lead-acid
> battery -- certainly
> it's far less dangerous than gasoline, antifreeze,
> motor oil, or
> transmission fluid. If it was an AGM that was
> crushed, there wouldn't
> even be any acid spill.
>
> As I recall, the hasmat proceedure for a lead-acid
> battery is "pick up
> the pieces, neutralize with baking soda, and wash it
> away with plenty of
> water".
>
> Lead acid batteries won't burn; their water content
> is more likely to
> extinguish a fire.
>
> Shorting a fully-charged battery can boil the
> electrolyte, so there is
> some risk of burns from steam. The case can also
> rupture from the
> internal pressure. But they don't store enough
> energy to boil it all
> away.
> --
> The two most common elements in the universe are
> hydrogen and stupidity.
> -- Harlan Ellison
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 9/24/05 2:14:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<<
It is a mystery why Dennis would care, however.
Since Dennis is not a NEDRA member, he can't set a NEDRA record.
It is a mystery why he would care what NEDRA class a car would fit into, or
why he would care what opinion (especially my opinion) NEDRA has about it.
Dennis resigned his NEDRA membership a few years ago. He also
actively disparages NEDRA quite consistently.
The irony is staggering. :^)
At 04:17 PM 9/22/2005, you wrote:
>Dennis wrote:
>
> > If a person had a pro street truck(NHRA)tube frame, fiber body fitted
> in such
> > a way as to be totaly street legal and driven on the street with a lic.
and
> > insurance which class would it belong to in nedra?
>
>If this is the extent of the "rules", I'd say Street conversion...
>
>"Street conversion vehicles are licensed and legal for driving on the
>street. "
>
>If not, then the "Concept vehicles" class..
>
>http://www.nedra.com/records-sc.html
>http://www.nedra.com/records-cv.html
>
>Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] to find out for certain.
Bill Dube'
National Technical Director
National Electric Drag Racing Association
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
^^^Yes, I did resign my lifetime nedra membership. Why? bottom line-
You!! ^^^I,and my crew do promote EVS most each and
every
weekend at Nhra events,bracket races,car shows,and my sponsor related events
without any negitive comments about nedra.
^^^I did not say"I" was going to
drive this truck at a nedra event for a record,just own it and use it as daily
driver,and possibly use it at NHRA events.That being said could not a nedra
member drive this truck for a record?
Dennis Berube With thousands of
SAFE accident free qt.mi.ev runs.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Shawn, Steve and All,
I'll have a Freedom EV there and bring it the 230
miles on it's own power. Now if I can just figure out how to get, barrow 10
YT's or Obitals !! :^D
Thanks Shawn,
Jerry Dycus
STEVE CLUNN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Waggoner"early details
> Hey Everyone,
>
> I have the early official details for the 2006 NEDRA race in Florida.
>
great news , Now what are we going to need to have on our cars to be able
to race , ?
I'll have a 2k zilla in my Porsche 924 by then. :-)
steve clunn ,
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 4:58 AM -0700 9/25/05, Don Cameron wrote:
Weight behind the rear axle or in front of the front axle will give the
vehicle a high polar moment of inertia. The vehicle will tend to respond
slowly and understeer in corners. However, once the car begins to corner,
it will take more effort on behalf of the drive to correct. A sluggish
handling car is not desirable. This is one reason why automotive engineers
seek to keep the weight between the wheels.
I suggest before you design and build a scratch-built a vehicle, that you
learn about suspension geometry and chassis design:
"How to make your car handle" - Fred Phun
"Chassis Engineering" - Herb Adams
"Race Car Vehicle Dynamics" - Milliken and Milliken
These are some of the many books available. They are all race car books,
but are **very** applicable to road cars as well.
You may not have caught it, but the person asking the question
originally said they were designing a three-wheeler. Three-wheeler
handling is very different than car handling. Adding that much weight
in front of the forward axle may not affect things in that way on a
tadpole.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chuck Hursch wrote:
>I guess I will trying leaning into it a bit more
Stick an impact gun on it and give it a shot or two and see if it moves.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Didn't CommutaVans have battery packs in the bumpers?
Normal front bumper:
http://www.motorcontrol.com/Press_Releases/commutacar-tico-2.jpg
Front bumper with a surprise inside!
http://www.ebeaa.org/graphics/ccar.jpg
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--- Begin Message ---
The R1 is already on sale in Japan (the same vehicle with an ICE), so
the R1e (electric version) is most likely not an NEV, but able to go
highway speeds (though you probably wouldn't want to do that for a long
period of time, even in the ICE version).
Gordon Niessen wrote:
It is not clear from the article if this is just another NEV or a real
electric car with capability to highway speeds. I Texas it really
needs to do 45 to even go to the grocery store.
At 9/23/2005 09:41 PM, you wrote:
Courtesy of Jalopnik:
http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/alternative-energy/subaru-parent-sets-timeline-for-electriccar-development-127242.php
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
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Non I ever saw. But even so, they can't go fast enough to hurt anyone, can
they?
Mark Grasser
78 #358
BIG REDs
http://members.rennlist.com/mgrasser
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Didn't CommutaVans have battery packs in the bumpers?
Normal front bumper:
http://www.motorcontrol.com/Press_Releases/commutacar-tico-2.jpg
Front bumper with a surprise inside!
http://www.ebeaa.org/graphics/ccar.jpg
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^^^Yes, I did resign my lifetime nedra membership. Why? bottom line-
You!!
What, exactly, did I do?
With thousands of
SAFE accident free qt.mi.ev runs.
Not even one accident? Ever?
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I hope to be there, work and family schedule permitting. Think I already
promised an appearance. Hopefully put a new record in the books.
Darin Gilbert
BadFishRacing
-------------- Original message from "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
--------------
> Hey Everyone,
>
> I have the early official details for the 2006 NEDRA race in Florida.
>
> The race will be held Jan. 21st 2006; gates open at 4:30PM and race to start
> soon after. The race will be held at Moroso Motorsports Park in West Palm
> Beach.
>
> http://www.morosomotorsportspark.com/Newsite/Default.asp
>
> Once we have a name and website, I'll post those details as well.
>
> The race is going to be the 2006 NEDRA Season Opener, and first ever NEDRA
> race in FL. So how wants to come to FL in the winter????
>
> I have several people who have already committed to coming down and bringing
> their EV's out to race. We are expecting between 15 and 20 vehicles. We
> would love to have more!!!
>
> The track is at a good size motor sports park and the managers are very
> supportive of having an EV race here. I am thrilled to see their support so
> early on.
>
> Besides the racing, we are also working on other events and contests that
> will be held during the race.
>
> If anyone has any questions, please email them to me at: shawn (at)
> suncoast.net
>
> Bring the cars, bikes and families and let's race!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shawn Waggoner
> FL EAA / NEDRA
>
>
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Hello all. I want to get myself into another EV, and I think the best one
for me at this time is a motorcycle. I just discovered Craig's list for
Seattle (wow, it's cool!), and it looks like I might be able to barter/trade
to get a glider, with relative ease. The weather is about to go bad until
spring, so this gives me time to complete the project before next year. My
goal is to have a daily commuter (13 miles each way, may be able to charge
at work) that I would probably ride only in good weather, floodeds or AGMs
probably, must go 40mph (freeway capable nice but not required), 48-72 volts
I think, probably contactor controller at first then move to Altrax, motor
TBD.
I would appreciate any advice on what to look for in my search. These are
the things I can think of:
* Clear title
* Working brakes
* Working electrical
* Little if any rust/dents
* Transmission type (not sure what is best or if it matters)
* Larger frame is better (for space for batteries and motor)
* Specific manufacturer? (not familiar with motocycles at all)
* Other?
Thanks in advance for your help.
--
Mark
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--- Begin Message ---
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2050198
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Hi Mark,
I am just a few hours South of you in Vancouver, so if you want to drop in
sometime and see my motorcycle and talk shop drop me a line.
I bought my glider from an internet newgroup add. After I got it I started
looking for cheap parts and found a couple of motorcycle junk yards in the
Portland area. The first time I went to one, I realized I had done things
all backwards. I should have started my search at the junk yard. They had
all kinds of rolling chasis etc, to chose from. I would look for similar
businesses in your area and go walk around and see what they have to offer.
I would check out a couple of different places and find one hat takes an
interest in what you are doing. If you get just the right hookup you will
get great deals on parts including occasional freebies, and you will get
lots of good advice.
damon
From: Mark Dodrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: EV List <[email protected]>
Subject: Advice on getting motocycle glider for an EV
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 07:28:41 -0700
Hello all. I want to get myself into another EV, and I think the best one
for me at this time is a motorcycle. I just discovered Craig's list for
Seattle (wow, it's cool!), and it looks like I might be able to
barter/trade
to get a glider, with relative ease. The weather is about to go bad until
spring, so this gives me time to complete the project before next year. My
goal is to have a daily commuter (13 miles each way, may be able to charge
at work) that I would probably ride only in good weather, floodeds or AGMs
probably, must go 40mph (freeway capable nice but not required), 48-72
volts
I think, probably contactor controller at first then move to Altrax, motor
TBD.
I would appreciate any advice on what to look for in my search. These are
the things I can think of:
* Clear title
* Working brakes
* Working electrical
* Little if any rust/dents
* Transmission type (not sure what is best or if it matters)
* Larger frame is better (for space for batteries and motor)
* Specific manufacturer? (not familiar with motocycles at all)
* Other?
Thanks in advance for your help.
--
Mark
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--- Begin Message ---
Geez Bill Dube
For the sake of this EV list Bill ,Why can't you keep your mouth shut and
act like the professional you are supposed to be?
You had no reason to bring this up, But Spite!!
And Dennis is trying to make a Street legal truck Both NEDRA and Madman's
100 compliant.
With a welcoming like this... I have few questions why Dennis disdain's
NEDRA.
Seriously Offended
Madman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 9/25/05 9:37:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< What, exactly, did I do?
**** answering off list
With thousands of
>SAFE accident free qt.mi.ev runs.
Not even one accident? Ever? >>
*** One incident at Speedworld Motorplex 9 years ago when an unsafe track
condition caused my car to flip 2 times in mid air at 118mph and NHRA closed
the
track for 2 months for repairs.Really no fault of mine.There were "NO" injures
because all my safety equipment worked properly. The car landed right side up
and I drove it back to the pits.
*** Bill,Care to tell us
all of your infractions, ACCIDENT and INJURY record? ***Your pretty
drivers hospital record?
***The recorded cause of the accident? Inadequate safety
measures?
I asked a simple tech.
question. I did not ask for a WAR,but will oblige if you continue Dennis
Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just got this email but I'm not sure what to tell Pardeep about
buying an electric bike/scooter in India. I thought I'd forward this
to the list in hopes that one of you resourceful and knowledgeable
types could help him out.
Please respond directly to Pardeep via: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks!
Subject: ElectricMotorcycles.net - Contact Us Form
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:43:50 -0500
From: ElectricMotorcycles.net <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
pardeep kapoor submitted the following Information:
Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Location india
Comments
iam an indian and i want an electric or battery driven bicycle for
my father who is suffering with knee joint pain but he has regularly
doing cycling with an ordinary cycle make hero. can you help me in
finding some bicycle which is affordable in india
pardeep kapoor
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; FunWebProducts)
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael,
I realize that Stu wants to build a three-wheeler. Polar moment of inertia
still applies. As well as a lot of other suspension and chassis design
principles that are in the books I mentioned.
It is important for everyone who wants to scratch build a car, 3-wheeler, or
motorcycle to realize that they cannot simply start putting things together
without some understanding of why. At best the vehicle would turn out to be
poor handling, at worst, a very dangerous safety risk, to the driver and
others.
I am not saying "don't do it". I am saying learn the basics first. There is
a lot of good information in books (such as the recommended texts), as well
as experienced, successful builders, and (to some extent) the internet.
Enjoy the dreaming, but when it comes to design and build, make sure to
back it up with sound engineering.
Micheal, I gather from your message that you have information regarding
3-wheel vehicles. Mind sharing it so we all can learn?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Hurley
Sent: September 25, 2005 8:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Can batteries be mounted up front ahead of the bumper?
At 4:58 AM -0700 9/25/05, Don Cameron wrote:
>Weight behind the rear axle or in front of the front axle will give the
>vehicle a high polar moment of inertia. The vehicle will tend to
>respond slowly and understeer in corners. However, once the car begins
>to corner, it will take more effort on behalf of the drive to correct.
>A sluggish handling car is not desirable. This is one reason why
>automotive engineers seek to keep the weight between the wheels.
>
>I suggest before you design and build a scratch-built a vehicle, that
>you learn about suspension geometry and chassis design:
>
>"How to make your car handle" - Fred Phun "Chassis Engineering" - Herb
>Adams "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics" - Milliken and Milliken
>
>These are some of the many books available. They are all race car
>books, but are **very** applicable to road cars as well.
You may not have caught it, but the person asking the question originally
said they were designing a three-wheeler. Three-wheeler handling is very
different than car handling. Adding that much weight in front of the forward
axle may not affect things in that way on a tadpole.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
