EV Digest 4773
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Siemens EV Motors
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Battery or Generator Trailer
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: World Solar Challenge, Panel life
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Designing for safety (was 'Re: Composite monocoque vs. sand buggy'
by "stU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery or Generator Trailer
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Newbie question.....
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Newbie question.....
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: battery explosion, terminal connections
by "Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: World Solar Challenge, Panel life
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: World Solar Challenge, Panel life
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Capacitor Drag Racing Idea
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: World Solar Challenge, Panel life
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) S-10 Conversion Speed Sensor
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Shorter clip of Victors capacitor only burnout
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: S-10 Conversion Speed Sensor
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Newbie question.....
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Wanted - information on DC motor
by Victor Reppeto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Shorter clip of Victors capacitor only burnout
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Newbie question.....
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Newbie question.....
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Electric Vehicle: 4 passenger...just $2250
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Rewinding a shunt motor: costs?
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Another NEDRA rule question single or dual motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Shorter clip of Victors capacitor only burnout
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Rewinding a shunt motor: costs?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Designing for safety (was 'Re: Composite monocoque vs. sand
buggy'
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Blew up Diode bridge.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Designing for safety (was 'Re: Composite monocoque vs. sand buggy'
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Solar Trailer? charge control
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Why does it need to be liquid cooled? Sure, it's nice; but it also adds
a lot of expense. 99% of electric motors are not liquid cooled.
I never said it *need* to be liquid cooled. I'm saying it is
a big advantage that they happen to be liquid cooled, just like
liquid cooled heat sink - we all know they are better for
hi power electronics but most of the sinks are air cooled since
the cost for them is a priority.
So, yes, certainly you don't need to have water cooled motor
in your EV in the same sense that you don't need to drive
a Mercedes. While most indeed don't, many people do.
Liquid cooled motors would be for those that do. It's a choice.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
Welcome to the list. Yes, this has been discussed numerous times over the
years, ad-nauseam! See my recent posts below and check the archives.
BB
>Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:35:49 -0600
>From: "Mike Whiteley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>I finally got up enough guts to post on this list.
>(This is my first post, please don't flame me. . lol )
>
>This probably isn't a novel idea but as an effort to increase
>the range of EV's, would it really be that bad to have either:
>1. A optional trailer packed with batteries, for extended range
>(just for those long trips)
>OR
>2. A optional gas generator packed in a little trailer for really
>long trips.
>
>This would effectively make the EV more useful for everyone. The
>vehicle would run only on electricity most of the time but could use
>some gas for demanding long trips (even several hundred miles). It's
>as simple as hooking up a trailer (assuming the supporting electronics
>are in place).
>
>Please let me know if anyone does this, or if this has been hashed out
>before. Thanks.
>
>Mike
>
>Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 16:45:27 -0600
>From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Another newby's take on racing
>
<snippage>
>
>Off-topic range extenders:
>And speaking of trailers, someone recently asked about using a range
>extending generator with an EV. I've been using a 10kW "propane" genny
>while pulling a 4'x8' utility trailer to make a trip to the dump (no
>eelectricity available there!), and also for hauling equipment to an
>indoor winter BMX facility. For a 60 mile round trip I use less than
>one-half of two 20 pound propane tanks, or around four gallons. Although
>going from an infernal combustion genny (even running at a constant RPM),
>through a generator, and then through chargers ain't as efficient as a gas
>truck, which would use three gallons of gas at 20 miles per gallon, the
>propane fuel is a whole lot cleaner and doesn't gum up (or go bad) when
>not in use. After a recent thread on using a genny for a range extender,
>verses keeping a gas pickup around for the occasional hauling job (with
>the cost of insurance, registration, emission testing, etc.), I noticed my
>genny used to pull the trailer has been about two percent of my kWh's
>consumed, which isn't too bad. As I've said before, with a 14-50 outlet
>(240V at 50A) located here and there to bulk charge, I just don't need no
>stinkin' infernal combustion genny a whole lot!
>
>EV's R Us,
>Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
>Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
>http://www.devc.org/
>Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
>Racing Association:
>http://www.nedra.com/
>Lyons, CO
>1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
>1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 21:29:25 -0600
>From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Pollution in small engines, Re: Rules of thumb for engine,
>Generator Eff ...
>
>David and All,
>What about when I need to pull a trailer to a place with no outlet, like
>the dump? With my on-board and off-board chargers and a 50A 14-50 outlet
>available I can do most of my driving, but my 10kW genny running a LPG
>powered Honda engine can buy me the extra range I sometimes need. Not to
>mention that it can be used by both of our EV's with my off-board
>FrankenLester(s) (the RX-7 uses a 144V and 48V). Should I own a second
>truck for those occasional longer trips (maintain and insure it, etc.,
>which could be a bio-diesel powered buggy, but which would be cleaner)? If
>I could just put a hitch on the wife's Prius...
>BB
>
>>From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 13:16:01 -0400
><snipage>
>>Better yet, leave the EV at home, and drive a well-maintained, newer ICE for
>>the long trips.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy,
Not to get too far off track but does anyone know the half life and end of
life on solar panels? I was thinking of putting some on my EV & house and
wanted to justify the cost.
Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: World Solar Challenge......, question.
> >
> > You could use the PV cooling system to pre-heat any water that goes on
> > to be heated in another way. Temperature rise is temperature rise.
>
> True, but solar hot water systems only add cold water when hot water is
> taken out. Most folks don't take hot baths in the the middle of the day.
> I suppose someone could be using hot water for washing clothes, but most
> folks with solar systems are energy consious and many use cold water for
> washing.
>
> At any rate this would only happen for a short period of time and probably
> only once or twice a week. Not worth the effort and expense.
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Tim Stephenson wrote:
>
My plan is to just laminate a steel pipe roll cage inside the foam &
composite.
Might not be the lightest, but it WILL be safe(r) and not much heavier.
You can do a good steel roll cage in about 100 lbs give or take. A lot
Less for really small vehicles.
Ditto here. Square or round, size and wall thickness?
I'm thinking 1-1/2" square 0.125" wall.
stU
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Either one can work. A battery trailer is a very good solution; Team New
England did very well in a Tour de Sol a few years back using one. You can
have a small, light, high performance pack in the car for close-in commuting,
and a big, grunty pack in the trailer for longer trips.
The genset trailer has obvious futher advantages in range and ease of fueling,
but it also has some distinct disadvantages.
1. Most gensets are not very efficient, so you're likely to get lower MPG than
you'd get with an equivalent ICE vehicle. It may be MUCH lower, depending
on the genset design; the cheap utility gensets are apt to perform very poorly
in this use. OTOH, AC Propulsion's range extender, based on a motorcycle
engine. was / is very well designed and surprisingly efficient. It was able to
return highway MPG in the 30s for their Honda Civic.
2. It can be unnerving to have an engine roaring away behind you when you
roll to a stop. Again how bothersome this depends how used you are to
driving and EV, and on the design of the genset, trailer, and hitch.
3. There are no gensets I know of that are as clean as a well maintained
modern microprocessor controlled ICE vehicle. The per-mile emissions from
the genset will be appreciably higher than an ICE, possibly many dozens of
even hundreds of times as high. How much this matters to you depends on
your objectives in owning and driving an EV.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
There are advantages and disadvantages to PM motors.
Efficiency wise they are only about 5% better than wound field motors.
Not a huge difference.
I think there is a flaw in this statement Peter. a 90% efficient motor
(fairly common number) gaining "just" 5% to become 95% one,
means would *double* its efficiency. I'd say it /is/ huge difference
FWIW, after 95% every % is very challenging.
Doubling efficiency of already 98% efficient motor by adding
only 1% (to make it 99%) is practically impossible (or VERY expensive).
Victor
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thankyou for the replies - but still not sure why permanent magnet motors
fall out of favour when those extra few % points are so hard to come by.
Surely the other design difficulties may be overcome using AC or PM on the
armature windings, still gaining the efficiencies of the permanent magnet
field.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: Newbie question.....
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > There are advantages and disadvantages to PM motors.
> > Efficiency wise they are only about 5% better than wound field motors.
> > Not a huge difference.
>
> I think there is a flaw in this statement Peter. a 90% efficient motor
> (fairly common number) gaining "just" 5% to become 95% one,
> means would *double* its efficiency. I'd say it /is/ huge difference
>
> FWIW, after 95% every % is very challenging.
>
> Doubling efficiency of already 98% efficient motor by adding
> only 1% (to make it 99%) is practically impossible (or VERY expensive).
>
> Victor
>
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/113 - Release Date: 27/09/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone ever heard of one or tow batterys in series reversing
themselves....they really get hot...
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: battery explosion, terminal connections
> Is KTA still in business? You would think if they were that they would
> update their website from May 2004....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:24 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: battery explosion, terminal connections
>
>
> Just use automotive style clamps on the terminals (and red/black rubber
> booties), I got some from www.kta-ev.com for my last few vehicles and havn't
> had to fool with periodic tightening of battery terminals. Make sure they
> aren't the sleazy led types sold in auto stores though. Just ignore the
> studs sticking up or put a washer & nut on them for good measure. I usually
> cut them off so the rubber booties go on better and have a 5/8" lower
> profile battery.
> Mark
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'TiM M'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'EV-List-Post'" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:04 PM
> Subject: RE: battery explosion
>
>
>> Hey,
>> Thanks for the input.
>> I did do a spot check of the terminals with a torque wrench and they had
>> hardly any lbs on them. However, 95-100 lbs seems like a lot to put on
> that
>> led.
>>
>> I checked Google with "Trojan Battery" torque and found the following
>> conflicting information
>>
>> Proper Torque Values for Connection Hardware
>> Flooded 65 to 75 in-lbs Gel or AGM 90 to 100 in-lbs
>> ( see web page http://www.green-trust.org/battfaq.htm)
>>
>> Then there is this FAQ from Trojan
>>
>> What is the proper torque value for my battery connections?
>>
>> Flooded Automotive 50-70 in-lbs
>> Wingnut 95-105 in-lbs
>> LPT 95-105 in-lbs
>> Stud 120-180 in-lbs
>> LT 100-120 in-lbs>
>> VRLA Button 90 to 100 in-lbs
>> LT 100-120 in-lbs
>>
>> WARNING: Do not overtighten terminals. Doing so can result in post
> breakage,
>> post meltdown, and fire.
>>
>> (see web page
>> http://www.trojan-battery.com/Tech-Support/FAQ/Maintenance.aspx
>>
>> The post/stud did melt and then the battery did blow up.(that's what an
>> insurance adjuster would say. "No no your house flooded first and then the
>> wind driven rain came with the hurricane and that blew your roof off") I
>> digress, I'm sure that's the way it went down. The top of the case split
> in
>> various places, however, one of the cell's vent cap kept the 3 piece cap
> in
>> place, the 3 piece vent cap was askew. (I always want to use that word)
>>
>> I was/am very unhappy with the terminals on these batters. The batteries
>> have a short regular battery post and then a stud next to it, all one
> piece.
>> The guy at the store said Trojan was not shipping the regular post anymore
>> but going with this hybrid. The post for the regular camp is there is no
>> surface area cause it too short hence, I didn't feel I was getting a good
>> connection. I had to make all new leads.
>>
>> Roland, you said that you made new post??? Is that correct? Talk to us.
>>
>> Any comments about the fuse that didn't blow and the funk way it was
> hooked
>> up. I got some steal flat stock to replace the aluminum but I was waiting
> to
>> see if any one had some thoughts about the fuse.
>> Thanks
>> Joe
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/113 - Release Date: 9/27/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI Mark,
Really depends on what solar cell you buy. If you buy amorphous they will
drop down to 60-70% output within couple of years. If you buy
polycrystalline or monocrystalline cells they have warranties for 20 years
and output should not drop by more an 8%. They are more expensive. Amorphous
cells are rated at de-rated output after couple of years. So when u get them
new there output will actually be greater. Its best to go for the poly or
mono crystalline. Its roughly $8 aussie dollars per watt.
Cheers
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Hanson
Sent: 29 September 2005 05:53
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: World Solar Challenge, Panel life
Howdy,
Not to get too far off track but does anyone know the half life and end of
life on solar panels? I was thinking of putting some on my EV & house and
wanted to justify the cost.
Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: World Solar Challenge......, question.
> >
> > You could use the PV cooling system to pre-heat any water that goes on
> > to be heated in another way. Temperature rise is temperature rise.
>
> True, but solar hot water systems only add cold water when hot water is
> taken out. Most folks don't take hot baths in the the middle of the day.
> I suppose someone could be using hot water for washing clothes, but most
> folks with solar systems are energy consious and many use cold water for
> washing.
>
> At any rate this would only happen for a short period of time and probably
> only once or twice a week. Not worth the effort and expense.
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PVs hasn't really been around long enough to estimate life. The warranty
can be 25 years at which 80% is supposed to be available. I have some
that are about 15 yrs old that are going brown. It is most likely "old
soldiers don't die they just fade away". I once had a 75 year old lady
worried about the warranty-for her grandchildren?
David
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Hanson
Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 5:53 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: World Solar Challenge, Panel life
Howdy,
Not to get too far off track but does anyone know the half life and end
of
life on solar panels? I was thinking of putting some on my EV & house
and
wanted to justify the cost.
Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: World Solar Challenge......, question.
> >
> > You could use the PV cooling system to pre-heat any water that goes
on
> > to be heated in another way. Temperature rise is temperature rise.
>
> True, but solar hot water systems only add cold water when hot water
is
> taken out. Most folks don't take hot baths in the the middle of the
day.
> I suppose someone could be using hot water for washing clothes, but
most
> folks with solar systems are energy consious and many use cold water
for
> washing.
>
> At any rate this would only happen for a short period of time and
probably
> only once or twice a week. Not worth the effort and expense.
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
But what if you connected a CAPACITOR in parallel with the field?
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
If one has an oversized PWM controller with lots of spare capacity, I could
see this giving the extra acceleration. But, if the controller is close to
its current limit, the weak field will cause the current to jump up, put the
controller in current limit, and not give you much of a boost after all.
For a contactor controller, many designs put a resistor in the circuit
between voltage steps to moderate the surge when going from one voltage step
to the next. Using a capacitor across the field will only aggravate the
tendency to jerk forward when accelerating up the voltage staircase. Mark
T.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can recall some hailstorms and such that happen about every 5 yrs
which would have real risk of damaging a solar installation on the
roof. OK, he's talking about another type of setup, but that factor
always troubled me about people planning for a solar investment that
would require 10 yrs to pay for itself.
In fact the cell itself may not be the limiting factor but the protected
outer layer of the panel. If it's glass it can get etched or broken.
Plastic materials inevitably degrade with full sun exposure and lose
transparency and strength. I'm sure they choose good materials but
decades in full sun is an incredibly difficult thing to ask.
BTW, if I recall correctly wasn't this originally about putting panels
on top of an EV RV? If so I wanted to mention you should come up with a
plan for getting up there to clean them after every drive. Dust kills
panel output. You can lose 20% or more with a dirty panel. And driving
generates far more dust than just sitting on a roof. Yet the RV's roof
is typically a very difficult place to get to in order to clean those
panels, and carrying a ladder or scaffold may not be practical. So some
sort of ingenious plan may be called for.
Danny
djsharpe wrote:
PVs hasn't really been around long enough to estimate life. The warranty
can be 25 years at which 80% is supposed to be available. I have some
that are about 15 yrs old that are going brown. It is most likely "old
soldiers don't die they just fade away". I once had a 75 year old lady
worried about the warranty-for her grandchildren?
David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Everybody:
I've got an 120 V 95' S-10, convertion 2/3 done by somebody else
(unfortunately deceased). While this person did a great job on the high
voltage side, he kind of 'rigged' the 12 Volt side. Among other things, he
installed a new speedometer and mounted it on the dash. I am currently
rebuilding the 12 V side so that everything works as it is supposed to.
However, the speedometer gives me a hard time. I connected the speed
sensor input to the original speedometer, but it gives me unvalid speed
readings (approx. 10 times the speed I am actually driving and going to 0
at actual speeds > 15 mph).
My question: On (1995's) S-10, is/was the speed sensor directly connected
to the speedometer or via some internal computer (that has, unfortunately,
been removed) ? What would be a prudent course of action to get the
speedometer working again?
Your insights are appreciated.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have put a smaller (19Mb) QuickTime movie of Victors burnout at Woodburn
on my web site. Look at www.HariTech.com <http://www.haritech.com/> at the
bottom of the page under Woodburn 2005.
If you think you will watch it more than once or show it to friends please
right click and 'Save Link As' or 'Save Target As' to put the file on your
hard drive instead of re-taking it from the server each time.
Victor if you would like to take this version while you figure out how to
edit the longer tape be my guest.
Lawrence
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Depending on the speedometer it may be settable. I have a car that we converted
the old dash to have all new autometer gauges. The speedometer that was there
was a cable driven one so there was an adapter to put on the transmission to
make it an electronic one. The autometer gauge had it's factory setting which
was way off, in the manual there was a procedure to calibrate it which was
something like hold the button on the front while turning the key on, the gauge
sweeps to full then comes back to half way. Press the button again and you've
entered the calibration mode where it displayed the number of pulses. Then you
have to drive exactly 2 miles at about 45mph, press the button again and it's
set. Not sure if your speedometer is anything like this or not though. I had
the same thing happen when we switched the transmission to a new one that has a
speed sender built in. It would read about 120mph while going all of 30.
Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Everybody:
I've got an 120 V 95' S-10, convertion 2/3 done by somebody else
(unfortunately deceased). While this person did a great job on the high
voltage side, he kind of 'rigged' the 12 Volt side. Among other things, he
installed a new speedometer and mounted it on the dash. I am currently
rebuilding the 12 V side so that everything works as it is supposed to.
However, the speedometer gives me a hard time. I connected the speed
sensor input to the original speedometer, but it gives me unvalid speed
readings (approx. 10 times the speed I am actually driving and going to 0
at actual speeds > 15 mph).
My question: On (1995's) S-10, is/was the speed sensor directly connected
to the speedometer or via some internal computer (that has, unfortunately,
been removed) ? What would be a prudent course of action to get the
speedometer working again?
Your insights are appreciated.
Michaela
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They don't. I have Siemens PM motor meant to be a generator.
Euro VW Golf CitySTROMer uses PM AC motor, and actually quite a few
vehicles from this list do:
http://www.ct-werner.de/htm/emobil/utw/emobilov.htm#emobil_interesselist
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
John Luck Home wrote:
Thankyou for the replies - but still not sure why permanent magnet motors
fall out of favour when those extra few % points are so hard to come by.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve, not really what you asked about but I was wondering if next time you
are at your buddies motor shop, could you get me more info on the " 14-18"
motor " that you were offered? Offlist reply would be fine. Thanks, David
Chapman.
I am still trying to sell an ICE car first but I am also interested
in the details and prices of the motors you are/not considering.
Thanx,
Victor R.
Salem, Or
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Lawrence, with your permission I'll copy this file.
My video clip I have shows ACRX from the other side.
Could you please crop it for me too, leaving out events
before and after?:
http://www.metricmind.com/data/asf_0002.mpeg
Warning: 111MEG file!
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Harris, Lawrence wrote:
I have put a smaller (19Mb) QuickTime movie of Victors burnout at Woodburn
on my web site. Look at www.HariTech.com <http://www.haritech.com/> at the
bottom of the page under Woodburn 2005.
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Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> John Luck Home wrote:
> >
> > Thankyou for the replies - but still not sure why permanent magnet motors
> > fall out of favour when those extra few % points are so hard to come by.
>
> They don't. I have Siemens PM motor meant to be a generator.
> Euro VW Golf CitySTROMer uses PM AC motor, and actually quite a few
> vehicles from this list do:
> http://www.ct-werner.de/htm/emobil/utw/emobilov.htm#emobil_interesselist
I think PM AC motors might be what is used in some brushless hub
motors, too ...
-----sharks
>
>
--
Nick 'Sharkey' Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://zoic.org/sharkey/>
"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome
nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately
I hate them!" -- Albert Einstein
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On Sep 28, 2005, at 1:21 PM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I think there is a flaw in this statement Peter. a 90% efficient motor
(fairly common number) gaining "just" 5% to become 95% one,
means would *double* its efficiency. I'd say it /is/ huge difference
No, the efficiency didn't double, the losses halved. The efficiency is
only up 5.6%. Range is only up 5.6%. Anyway, the typical field losses
in my EV, at freeway speeds, are around 2 to 2.5%.
Paul
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No seat belts it seems. LR
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:59 AM
Subject: Electric Vehicle: 4 passenger...just $2250
As Rod Serling would say "presented for your approval". Would be
interesting to see one of these in person. David Chapman.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Electric-Vehicle-4-passenger-just-2250_W0QQitemZ7186019720QQcategoryZ40152QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Well, I'm coming to the conclusion that my Elec-Trak E20's main motor
has a ground short in the armature windings. The resistance to ground is
slightly different from either side, and when I ground out positive
while the motor is running, the speed changes.
Drat.
Any idea what it would cost to get a 3-4hp GE motor rewound? I'd rather
not be taken to the cleaners, but it seems the famed "no maintenance"
motor here needs maintenance. By an odd coincedence, the lift motor also
went to ground; problem there is definately a shorted to ground armature.
Any thoughts? What's the lifespan on the average motor windings anyway?
Chris
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Hey all
Just couldnt resist throwing my two cents in here. What defines the term a
motor? Funny this post has come up as Ive thought about this as I was
building the twins.
Are they two? Or is it one?
As to the Siamese 8 being able to run series / parallel. I can show that you
can do this with a single motor. As well? probably not as good as with two
motors but it can be done, and in fact will play with this ability. This
should not be a parameter for defining single vs. dual.
Second, there are a few scissors lift pump motors that have 2 comms (one at
both ends), on one common armature lamination stack (the steel body) with no
rear end knuckle. They are shorter and so do not need an inner bearing support
as Waylands motor needs. The twin comm. theory I feels goes out the window
here also.
Now to insert a middle bearing support the armature stack has to be separated.
Now does the break in the lamination stack constitute it as a double motor? I
dont believe it does, but this would be the only ground that could be debated.
I would define a motor as electrical windings, contained in a shell, with a
single output shaft. As John Wayland stated it is unable to run without the
unit as a whole.
As to the statement: Allowing such exotics to slip into the single motor
Class is how checkbook wars get started to the detriment of all.
I disagree, as I made no money on this (I could have), but did it to see if I
could?
In fact I bet the whole affair didnt amount to over $100.00 from my shop. I
have no idea what the shaft materials ran but it couldnt have been that bad.
Now one could argue that I did it for the advertising as Wayland sinnggggggs
the praises of Hi-Torque
but in fact I did it because of the tenacity of Johns
persistence. In fact he had talked to the guy I was working for and "he"
wanted nothing to do with it. Knowing that I wanted to help John out I strung
him along for months until I opened my shop. Along the way John has become a
good friend to me. Tim, Keith, Marko, as well as many others all donated work
to make a good car better. Why? Because Wayland is a true statesman of the
sport, and he lives it every day, and works hard to achieve what he has
attained. He is able to bring in others who have skills in a particular area
who are like-minded. It is no different than if I built them for myself, or
did it for John as a friend. Further, if it wasnt for being!
allowed
to highly modify this motor I would not have gotten anywhere near as involved
as I have by doing something untried (in fact the motors came in for basic
pretty-up and vibration issues). For those who have been to my shop they know
it is not the money that allowed this design to happen but the ability to do
it that created their existence. I truely did it for the challenge. I believe
that allowing exotics is how this sport will be able to launch to higher
plateaus, and entice others to join the movement and try new things.
This is just my opinion and I have tried to remain nuetral and have no real
stake in it, so call it what you will : )
On a side note: Ive got Jays ADC 9 down to 14 ¼ in total length, which is
under Markos ADC8 @ 15 I say this, because I plan on using a pair of Siamese
9s (I like the name X29) shortened down to the length of the Siamese 8. So
good luck on deciding and let me know as to what class Ill need to run in. I
know she wont be street legal, hehehehe.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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That video is still way too large, it's not in a great format. I
compressed it to about 10% of its original size.
If you leave your FTP dir open to writes I can u/l it.
I tried the asf video and it's in a format that Microsoft has its claws
in. VirtualDub can't legally work it. I'm curious to figure out what
the options are.
Danny
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Thanks Lawrence, with your permission I'll copy this file.
My video clip I have shows ACRX from the other side.
Could you please crop it for me too, leaving out events
before and after?:
http://www.metricmind.com/data/asf_0002.mpeg
Warning: 111MEG file!
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Hey Chris
I'd need to get a motor number and or a pic of the motor to give you an idea of
what you would expect to pay. As to the life of a motor, Jay's motor is dated
10/1/93 and is 12 years old and failed because of a worn out shaft spline. It
is in fact brand new in every way still. I've done motors that have never been
rebuilt older than I am, thats 42, lol. Pics of your motor, armature, and
brushes might give me an idea as to how hard it is being worked. You should be
able to bring the armature to a local shop to see if it can be cleaned out and
dipped and baked which would be cheaper than a rewind.
need more info to help
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, I'm coming to the conclusion that my Elec-Trak E20's main motor
has a ground short in the armature windings. The resistance to ground is
slightly different from either side, and when I ground out positive
while the motor is running, the speed changes.
Drat.
Any idea what it would cost to get a 3-4hp GE motor rewound? I'd rather
not be taken to the cleaners, but it seems the famed "no maintenance"
motor here needs maintenance. By an odd coincedence, the lift motor also
went to ground; problem there is definately a shorted to ground armature.
Any thoughts? What's the lifespan on the average motor windings anyway?
Chris
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
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Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> My plan is to just laminate a steel pipe roll cage inside the foam
> & composite.
Temperature changes may cause cracking or "oil canning". Steel and
fiberglass have considerably different expansion coefficients.
The worst case would be if you built something like a flat door or roof
panel with a steel pipe perimeter frame, filled the space inside with a
foam panel, and then fiberglassed over the outside. As the steel shrinks
and expand differently with temperature, it will alternately stretch the
fiberglass until it cracks, and shrink until the fiberglass rattles or
oilcans in/out.
If you can completely cover the steel with foam, and then fiberglass
over that, the foam should absorb the dimensional changes with
temperature.
--
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
-- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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I combined the output of the two diode bridges and I think they blew up.
Before I combined them they worked fine. Now nothing. I thought I could
combine the output of my two variac's. They are in sync. Should I combine
on the AC side and use one bridge?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Would you want to:
Provide a cushion, like closed-cell foam used on pipe insulation, for
example?
Box around the package with foamboard (that is, provide an oversized
channel)? or
Use expandable foam inside the "box" (the spraycan stuff used for
insulation around a home's windows and doors)?
Thanks a bunch for this tip - I'm sure you saved me from a lot of grief.
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: Designing for safety (was 'Re: Composite monocoque vs. sand
buggy'
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > My plan is to just laminate a steel pipe roll cage inside the foam
> > & composite.
>
> Temperature changes may cause cracking or "oil canning". Steel and
> fiberglass have considerably different expansion coefficients.
>
> The worst case would be if you built something like a flat door or roof
> panel with a steel pipe perimeter frame, filled the space inside with a
> foam panel, and then fiberglassed over the outside. As the steel shrinks
> and expand differently with temperature, it will alternately stretch the
> fiberglass until it cracks, and shrink until the fiberglass rattles or
> oilcans in/out.
>
> If you can completely cover the steel with foam, and then fiberglass
> over that, the foam should absorb the dimensional changes with
> temperature.
> --
> The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
> -- Harlan Ellison
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.6/111 - Release Date: 9/23/05
>
>
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I am coming to this discussion pretty late and have
not read the whole thread so excuse me if i ask for
infromation you have already given. I have a trike
with a 35 watt+- solar panel and 48 volts of agm batts
right now I have not hooked the panel to the batts as
the regulator from the solar company says it is only
good for up to 24v. I have used it to charge a couple
of batts (17AH gelcells) and it did work but I didn't
have a way to determine how much charge it added. the
voltage went up so I assume it added charge. now as I
read below I infer that a set of lee hart regulators
will act as a charge controller. yes no ?? if so
can I buy same or must i build them??? BTW lee I have
most of the pedal generator hardware and would like to
send it to you for the electronic part as I am an
electronic
idiot. Would that be ok??
answer off list if you perfer
thanks
keith
--- Lee Hart <leea [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > How do you handle the fact that the battery being
> charged is now
> > going to have the highest voltage in the pack? Do
> you have a time
> > delay before it can switch to another battery or
> do you some how
> > compensate for charging voltage?
>
> Yes. The basic algorithm is:
>
> - scan the batteries to get their voltages
> - compute the average voltage
> - find the lowest-voltage battery
> - charge it for a time proportional to how much
> below average it is
> (usually no more than 10 minutes per battery)
> - repeat
>
> So it scans the batteries every 10 minutes, and
> charges the lowest ones
> for a time proportional to how much below average
> they are.
>
> > I never thought about using your balancer as the
> sole source for
> > charging. You might have mentioned this before and
> I missed it.
>
> Yes, it can be used your only charger, or an
> opportunity charge. Very
> slow though, as it has to charge them one at a time.
>
> > This seems ideal for AGMs, especially Hawkers. You
> could slug them
> > with a high current charge and then move on and
> allow them to cool,
> > then come back and slug them again. Charging and
> equalization at
> > once, I like it.
>
> Yes, that's basically it!
> --
> If you would not be forgotten
> When your body's dead and rotten
> Then write of great deeds worth the reading
> Or do the great deeds worth repeating
> -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
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