EV Digest 4788

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Possible motors or build our own. Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
        by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Pic of the inside of an inverter
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re:  Subject: Scrapheap Challenge
        by Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Street Conversion vs Modified Conversion
        by "Brian D.Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) RE: Possible motors or build our own. Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
        by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) New Sparrows now $35,000 
        by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Industrial motors was: Re: Siemens EV Motors
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Grass rootes basic info
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: website for Siemens motors
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Street Conversion vs Modified Conversion
        by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: TS Connecting Questions
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: TS Connecting Questions
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: New Sparrows now $35,000 
        by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: TS Connecting Questions
        by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: TS Connecting Questions
        by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
        by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Industrial motors was: Re: Siemens EV Motors
        by "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) RE: Street Conversion vs Modified Conversion
        by "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Grass rootes basic info
        by "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Newbie
        by "James McKethen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Grass rootes basic info
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
        by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Newbie +1
        by "Robert Stalnaker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: My S-10 again - ABS
        by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jerry,

I've been meaning to joing the EV Production list so I can keep better tabs on you, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

I'm wondering if you are considering selling either the Freedom EV or the Sunrise as a glider. Many of us DIY'rs have all the other parts handy already and would like to stuff in our own motors, controllers, and batteries.

damon


From: jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Possible motors or build our own.  Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 18:31:14 -0700 (PDT)

           Hi Lee and All,

Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jerry Dycus wrote:
> If anyone can match the 2 motor series setup with AC, BLDC, PM,
> please let me know, but I don't know of any that even come close.
> The 10-1 diff it used is still available if a high rpm AC, ect can be
found.

The Sunrise II is going to be an expensive, higher-end EV. As such, I don't


It depends on what we want to sell it for, if DC it can be sold for $20k, if AC like Victors, it's $25k If Ni-cad too, it's $30k.

But Victor's isn't good as he can't supply the needed number of units even if we went that way. So buying new Siemens instead of surplus would drive the price up another $5k.



see much reason for doing it "on the cheap". I can see two possible routes;


I wouldn't call it on the cheap, just correct pricing. And those who want to spend more can. But I doubt many will pay the higher price for a slower AC car.

And lets not forget repair cost which would be many times higher on Victor's units than it would cost for a new controller or motor in my version.



an ultra-efficient, quiet, clean, commuter much like Solectria's vision.


At $.01 vs $.009 or $.001/mile fuel cost difference, I don't believe many will justify it on eff basis. Especially if the higher cost one is slower, more costly to maintain, more expensive to replace batteries, ect.

They would be much better off just going Ni-cad for the money spent.



Or, a tire-burning, high-performance sports car, more like the EV1 vision.


My version will easily burn rubber and about as much power as the front wheel drive can handle with 2 L91 motors and a 600 motor amp controller. So meets the EV-1 like power goal easily in an EV that weighs 2/3's of the EV-1 .




For the Solectria version, AC makes sense. If the 10:1 differential is
readily available, then using one of Victor's Siemens AC motors and
inverters may be the most attractive option. Or, Solectria is a small
company; if they could build an AC motor and controller, so could we. We
might be able to do a design turn on the Solectria design, and tweak it up
with newer parts at a more reasonable cost.


I agree we could build a better motor for mush less cost but lets build the EV's first before we go into the motor/controller business. It's best to do only a couple new things at once so not to have too many possible failure points when starting up.

But I can easily see us in the near future, building a BLDC motor for all the EV's I'll build and for other EVer's too. I need it as a generator for my Non dam hydro gens anyway so one will be in the future, just not now.

I'd like to see Rich build a 120vdc version of the AC motor controller he built for his minibike from hell though we would need a motor to match it so I won't have to build my motor/controller.



Though no reason the group couldn't start an open source motor, controller design if someone wanted to take that ball and run with it. It's something we all really need, an Eff, low price BLDC motor, controller. It would be a great winter project. And I've done the numbers and it should cost less than $600 to build in disc form with the controller.



Until a reasonable priced AC or BLDC motor, controller is available at a reasonable price, I don't see it in my EV's. for now, series is king.






Without access to the special differential or a good source of AC motors
and inverters, a pair of DC motors and PWM controller may be the best
choice. It could certainly deliver breathtaking performance, as befitting a
sports car. I am very impressed by what a pair of ADC motors and Zilla
controller can do!


If you are satisfied with 14 sec 1/4 mile times which is plenty fast, you can do it without a Zilla and it's cost since we can keep our weight low. One can always do a bypass contactor for much higher power levels.






For DC, Bob Schneeviess proposed a good drive setup. He found a source of
high quality 5:1 gear reducers that bolt onto the end of ADC motors.Mount
the two motors transversely, one in front, one in back. The front motor's
gear reducer is on the left, staggers its shaft rearward, and connects to
the right front wheel. The rear motor's gear reducer is on the right,
staggers its shaft forward, and connects to the left front wheel. The two
shafts are offset a few inches so they miss each other. The universal
joints take up the small angular difference to accomodate this. This gets
rid of the differential and has a single in-line gear reduction for
efficiency.


We could do the same thing with belt reductions if we want at a lower cost probably as gear reducers in that power, torque range are not cheap or light.

An interesting version could be 2 E teks for regen, eff, cruise with 1 series motor added to them for acceleration.

                                         Thanks,

                                                Jerry Dycus







--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


> As I am or maybe a sep-ex but most likely the least
expensive with good power will be a 2 motor series or series/parallel setup
direct driving it thru a differential. Modern large forklift controllers
make this easy to do now as they are designed for twin motors, higher
voltages.
>
>
> The drive system I'm looking at costs well under $2k for the
motor/controller/contactors with 600 motor amps and serious torque, about
as much as the front drive/suspension will handle probably.
>
>
>
> designed for AC. A DC drive is possible of course, but without a
> transmission, a big enough DC motor and PWM controller may cost as much
> as an AC drive.
>
> > We will have a 2 seat sportscar with rear drive for the really hot,
> > fast EV market with really great looks, easily out classing most on
> > the market now.
>
> I thought the Sunrise was a 4-seater; a mid-sized car like a Camry. Or
> are you talking here about a different vehicle?
>
>
> Yes it is, there is another composite monocoque EV spportscar
in our future though the Freedom EV and Sunrise must be done first.
>
> And probably a mini van, SUV and mini-pick up on the Sunrise
chassis too. As most of the work will already be done, just make new
bodies for the chassis will be realitively easy compared from starting from
scratch. And the 3 will share doors, the hardest part of building a car,
truck.
>
> Bob took a ride in James' Sunrise and even at his really tall
size, fit comfortably. Maybe Bob could tells us about that ride,
impressions?
>
> Reading it's brouchure I have, it has 2 airbags too.
>
>
> > You get that EV1 gem-like finish and you will get your business some
> > attention.
>
> That's for sure! A Sunrise could be a perfect replacement for mourning
> EV1 drivers.
>
>
>
> That's a major market for it, EV-1 ex owners. I'd like to
beat the EV-1 in every way we can performance wise and with the lower
Sunrise's weight, I believe it's possible and do it at a reasonable cost.
>
> Plus as a 4 seater, it has much wider appeal than the EV-1
could ever have.
>
> I'm hoping that within the yr it takes to produce it, good,
reilable Li-ions will be available so it can have a 300 mile range. If
Kokams could become affordable as they ramp up to mass production, it would
be really sweet !!
>
>
>
> As in all my EV's I'll build, it will be repairable easily by the
owner with most anything taking 30 minutes or much less to repair or
replace with mostly locally available parts.
>
> Also upgradeable fairly easy to any new tech that comes along.
>
> We need to come up with a new name as we can't use Sunrise and it
will be modified to improve it so it won't be anyway.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry Dycus
> --
> "One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
> shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net




---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Typical marketing BS. Look at the table comparing
standard PM and rasor's motors.

According to them all PM motors in the world are pure
crap and only Rasor's motors are to save the world.
IS there any single good thing to say about PM motors?

A turn off big time.


Ryan Stotts wrote:
Pic of it with the case off:

http://www.rasertech.com/media/pdfs/controller_slick_Z.pdf

I wonder how much it costs and why they only get 400 amps out of it? Although, 400 amps at 100 volts is entirely different then 400 amps at
500 volts is it not?

http://www.rasertech.com/tech_controller.html

How much is their little 500hp pancake motor too?

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Way to go!
Thats my favorite show(though it hasn't been available
to me for a while in canada)

-----snip-----

> > Subject: Scrapheap Challenge
> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:48:42 +0100
> From: "paul compton \(RRes-Roth\)"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> 
> Scrapheap Challenge (also re-Broadcast and produced
> in the US as Junkyard Wars).
> 
> UK Series 8 is three programmes into it's run.
> 
> Next week is off-road EV's with yours truly as one
> of the team experts.
> 
> 
> Paul Compton
> www.sciroccoev.co.uk
> www.morini-mania.co.uk
> www.compton.vispa.com/the_named




        

        
                
__________________________________________________________ 
Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great going , John, Why don't you run those drag slicks in the MC class and
take this record away from Roderick, you are very close.

MC/A   Mazda RX7 "Maniac Mazda" - 264V
Driver/Owner: Roderick Wilde - Jerome, AZ  12.07  110.13

I think roll bars are Okay in a street car. Safety first.   NHRA is clear
with what a street car is , street tires , wipers, horn ect.
Brian D. Hall

John wrote"
How does everyone else feel about this? Is having a roll cage in a
street conversion class EV to much 'race' and moving away from 'street',
or, is it a proper step for an SC class EV to take as it gets quicker
through the quarter mile? How about swapping tires once one gets to the
track and running slicks? I still feel that slicks should be reserved
for MC class vehicles, but it sure would be fun to see what my low 12
second car (man, that sounds good) could do with the extra catapult
action out of the hole real slicks provide! I could do this and not
submit the time slips to NEDRA to keep things fair in the SC class, just
to see if White Zombie can pull 11's...then again, the damn thing just
might pull a high 11 on street tires :-)

 >I look forward to seeing the rules, voltage and class, reviewed. It
means that EV racing is growing - the varied opinions about what the
 >rules mean is showing.

Me too. I'd like to hear from NEDRA board members and get their valued
opinions. NEDRA? Bill Dube?

See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
           Hi Damon and All,

damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Jerry,

I've been meaning to joing the EV Production list so I can keep better tabs 
on you, but haven't gotten around to it yet.


         Most everything but propietary stuff I put on here too so you are not 
missing much and it costs money to join that list.

 


I'm wondering if you are considering selling either the Freedom EV or the 


         Yes I'll be selling some Freedom EV's as a gliders at first. The Plug 
is right in front of me now and it really looks good. I think people will 
really like it as it has a cool style.  After this break, I'll go out and draw 
in the doors, windows, windshield, ect to make mold inserts for them to put in 
the tooling mold so it has the indents for them to fit in.

 

        Waxing the production mold 7 times this week so to be able to start a 
body as soon as I get back from picking up the Sunrise Body. 

 

 

 

Sunrise as a glider.

 

          As it has to be a kit legally to bypass the Feds, it will be shipped 
without motor, batts anyway so could easily leave off the controller for those 
who want to roll their own. Those who want the stock, motor, batts will get 
them dropped shipped seperately. Installing the motor, batts should be about a 
3hr job for a running EV. It will be completely assembled and tested with the 
motor, batts removed before shipping them for stock ones.

 

 Many of us DIY'rs have all the other parts handy 
already and would like to stuff in our own motors, controllers, and 
batteries.


         Remember it has the Geo Metro Front wheel drive suspension in it so 
Wayland type power is not going to work in it. 

        Next yr I'll have a classic rear wheel drive EV aero sportscar based on 
the 64 Ferrari Daytona Coupe for those that want to really go fast.

       Also little will be saved as I get the motors, ect, fairly low cost in 
quanity. With twin 6.7's S/P, 600 amp controller,  it will need at least an  8" 
and a 1K Zilla to match it in power at a fair amount higher cost if you go the 
single motor route.

 


damon




                
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:


I made my crimper from similar bolt cutters.  I used a die grinder to
cut out a half moon notch on one jaw that fits the un-crimped lug.  On
the other side I ground down a little, perhaps 1/8" in a shallow dish.
Into that I welded a tooth using a hard alloy welding filler.

Here is visualization of what I think you've described.:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/strap7.jpg
Made from a bolt cutter as well.
I use half circle inserts (into a half-moon cut jaw)
made from a steel tube cut along in half to accommodate
smaller lugs. Works great.

I like resulting crimps better than achievable with a hex crimper I
rented before.
It is easier to make the area between closed jaws arbitrary small,
increasing pressure. With hex crimper too small die will jam the
corners of the lugs before complete closure, so you must rotate
the lug several times before the crimp completed.

Some info in my web page for newbies about crimping:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/wire.htm

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
            Hi All,
                The Sparrow is now back for sale for $35,000 !!!! Maybe I 
should raise my
 prices  ;^D
                 I wonder if they will be able to sell any at those prices? At 
least it should raise the prices of the Corbin Sparrows.
                                               Jerry Dycus
http://myersmotors.com/welcome.html

http://myersmotors.com/sparrowfeatures.html

                
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
James Massey wrote:

So, a 10hp motor (like the surplus center one) could be rewound to
50V, 60Hz, 7.5kW. This would require around 75V of batteries for
60Hz so at 4x the RPMs is a 300V battery pack and 4x the continuous
power is in the order of 30kW continuous.

Lee, have I stuffed that up, or have I learned some?


I think you have it exactly right!

Except that 30kW "continuous" out of really 7.5hW motor in this case
means rather 5-10 minutes or so. Then it will overheat unless
you spend perhaps another 7.5kW on the blower the size of your car
to cool it off.

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:

Too little water, and the acid gets so strong it can attack the plates.
The plates can also get above the water level, exposed to the air, where
they can overheat and melt at high currents.

The portion of the plate which is not submerged in the electrolyte
does not participate in the current flow - there is nothing to conduct
out.

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Siemens' site about these motors no longer exist. But you can find
info about *such* motors, not my particular ones and not related to
the automotive application.

Charles Whalen wrote:
Does anyone know the URL for the Siemens website listing their AC induction EV propulsion motors that Victor sells at www.metricmind.com/motor.htm. I tried www.siemensvdo.com but didn't find them there.

Thanks,

Charles

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:

Something I never knew till just now:

"Ballard supplied electric drives to Ford for use in the
battery-powered Ford Ranger pickup trucks, introduced in 1998, as well
as Ford's battery-powered TH!NK city electric vehicle."

Ford used Ballard's 67kW AC drive systems all along.

http://www.ballard.com/be_a_customer/transportation/electric_drives

Gee, another copy of >10 years old Siemens design:
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/5134.jpg

(Also known all along...)

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- While I was in line to get into the pits the other night at Speedworld I was behind a gutted, tubbed, caged Camero that had a wonderfully heady exhaust odor. Smelled like "Trick" or something similar. It had all the required steet equipment on it and a current licence plate hanging off the back. In the trunk were a couple of slicks and an aluminum racers jack and 4 way. Fellow paid his money, passed NHRA tech, got into his pit and changed the tires to slicks. Ran all night, had a ball and then drove it home on the street tires. I talked to him briefly and he said that for some classes he has to run DOT tires and in those cases he has a pair of those street slicks he runs. And yes it was registered and fully street legal.

I feel if it has a valid licence plate on it and is currently registered it is "street legal" and should be allowed to run in the SC class, with safety equipment (cage, seats etc)as appropriate to the vehicles speed capabilities (ala NHRA). Maybe a few basic parameters like normal drivers position, no wheelbase mods, etc. I personally don't really care for the DOT street tire deal but its not a biggie. You start trying to define SC by how much upholstry, fender flares, cage mounting, fuzzy dice, trailered or driven to the track, etc and you are in for nothing but headaches, arguments and bad feelings. MC should be for kit cars and non-street legal conversions of a vehicle that was originally produced as a production vehicle, and after that anything goes with again the appropriate speed related safety equipment. Would have to define kit cars (probably with a minumim # produced figure or somesuch) and probably want to set minimum and maximum wheelbase limits for the class.

SP and MP could pretty much follow the same guidelines. David Chapman.


----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian D.Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev post" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: Street Conversion vs Modified Conversion


Great going , John, Why don't you run those drag slicks in the MC class and
take this record away from Roderick, you are very close.

MC/A   Mazda RX7 "Maniac Mazda" - 264V
Driver/Owner: Roderick Wilde - Jerome, AZ  12.07  110.13

I think roll bars are Okay in a street car. Safety first.   NHRA is clear
with what a street car is , street tires , wipers, horn ect.
Brian D. Hall

John wrote"
How does everyone else feel about this? Is having a roll cage in a
street conversion class EV to much 'race' and moving away from 'street',
or, is it a proper step for an SC class EV to take as it gets quicker
through the quarter mile? How about swapping tires once one gets to the
track and running slicks? I still feel that slicks should be reserved
for MC class vehicles, but it sure would be fun to see what my low 12
second car (man, that sounds good) could do with the extra catapult
action out of the hole real slicks provide! I could do this and not
submit the time slips to NEDRA to keep things fair in the SC class, just
to see if White Zombie can pull 11's...then again, the damn thing just
might pull a high 11 on street tires :-)

>I look forward to seeing the rules, voltage and class, reviewed. It
means that EV racing is growing - the varied opinions about what the
>rules mean is showing.

Me too. I'd like to hear from NEDRA board members and get their valued
opinions. NEDRA? Bill Dube?

See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland

[EMAIL PROTECTED]


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

First, when connecting TS cells to each other in series, I need a 2/0 cable plus a #12 monitoring wire on each terminal. Do I put the 2/0 wire's lug against the terminal, then the #12 wire's small lug on top of that, then a lock washer, and then bolt them all in place?

Yes.

Why not insert a monitoring wire into the same lug as jumper cable
and crimp all together? I've done this when used Optimas.

Question though: are you sure you need 2/0 cable on the battery side?

is there someplace that I can buy lugs with a 5/16 inch hole?

Waytek Wire, p/n 32904. #12-10 wire, 5/16 hole.  min qty 20, $0.2716
each:

<http://order.waytekwire.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L0A52C61542B40500
37E5041+M37+ENG>

Finally, do I need a holdback when tightening the bolt onto the TS cell?

Victor will provide the definitive answer, but I have yet to see a
battery with threaded insert type terminals that required one to hold
the threaded insert to keep it from turning, so I would say not.

Cheers,

Roger.

No need. An insert is square nickel block molded inthe plastic shell.
You will strip the tread or pull the block out (and definitely
crack the plastic top) before you can turn it.

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Mark, I didn't mention this, but thought it is obvious and
understood by default. The whole world, except US, is metric.
China included.

Victor

Mark Fowler wrote:
TS cells have metric bolt holes.

Some are M6 (6mm) and some - yours - are M8 (8mm).

Mark

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different

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--- Begin Message ---
There were few generations of Fords.
First ones put together by EDM (if I recall the name correctly)
used Siemens motors.

Ford ordered them from Siemens to build for them, and
put their (ford) label on it.

Later gen used Ballard's systems (still copy of
Siemens', but this is another story). Ford built
these vehicles, not EDM (I've inspected software for
EDM, and parameter set is little different
than standard Siemens' drive.

I don't know about business arrangement between
Ford and Ballard. All I can see that the motors
installed in any generation of Rangers are Siemens
design ones. Ballard's inverters are different though.

Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
Interesting- I have seen a Ford EV-Ranger Motor and
Controller.  And it has Ford emblems all over it. And
Victor informed me they were Siemiens Motors and
Controllers. Was Ballard buying Siemiens and selling
it to Ford to put their Emblems on it?

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Oct 2005 at 11:58, jerry dycus wrote:

> The Sparrow is now back for sale for $35,000 !!

That's quite a pricey little bird, almost as much as the Solectria Force was at 
its peak.  And the Force could carry 4 people.

This is the part of the page I find amusing (but then that's my nature):

     Newsletter Achieves

Maybe it's expensive because it's an overachiever.  

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, I've got the straps that come with the TS cells.  2/0 runs from
the cells in the back of the car to the controller in front.

Bill Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 12:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: TS Connecting Questions

Roger Stockton wrote:
> Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>>First, when connecting TS cells to each other in 
>>series, I need a 2/0 cable plus a #12 monitoring wire on each 
>>terminal.  Do I put the 2/0 wire's lug against the terminal, 
>>then the #12 wire's small lug on top of that, then a lock 
>>washer, and then bolt them all in place?
> 
> Yes.
>
Why not insert a monitoring wire into the same lug as jumper cable
and crimp all together? I've done this when used Optimas.

Question though: are you sure you need 2/0 cable on the battery side?

>>is there someplace that I can buy lugs with a 5/16 inch hole?
> 
> Waytek Wire, p/n 32904. #12-10 wire, 5/16 hole.  min qty 20, $0.2716
> each:
> 
> <http://order.waytekwire.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L0A52C61542B40500
> 37E5041+M37+ENG>
> 
>>Finally, do I need a holdback when tightening the bolt onto 
>>the TS cell?
> 
> Victor will provide the definitive answer, but I have yet to see a
> battery with threaded insert type terminals that required one to hold
> the threaded insert to keep it from turning, so I would say not.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Roger.

No need. An insert is square nickel block molded inthe plastic shell.
You will strip the tread or pull the block out (and definitely
crack the plastic top) before you can turn it.

-- 
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different



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Right.  By my calculations, 5/16-inch is 7.9375mm, so the difference between
the two sizes is less than .0025 inches.  5/16 lugs should pose no problems.

Bill Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 12:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: TS Connecting Questions

Thanks Mark, I didn't mention this, but thought it is obvious and
understood by default. The whole world, except US, is metric.
China included.

Victor

Mark Fowler wrote:
> TS cells have metric bolt holes.
> 
> Some are M6 (6mm) and some - yours - are M8 (8mm).
> 
> Mark

-- 
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different



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O.K - here comes the "newbie" question......

Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the fine
stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end ring connectors.
Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug ??

John



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools


> Neon John wrote:
>
> >
> > I made my crimper from similar bolt cutters.  I used a die grinder to
> > cut out a half moon notch on one jaw that fits the un-crimped lug.  On
> > the other side I ground down a little, perhaps 1/8" in a shallow dish.
> > Into that I welded a tooth using a hard alloy welding filler.
>
> Here is visualization of what I think you've described.:
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/strap7.jpg
> Made from a bolt cutter as well.
> I use half circle inserts (into a half-moon cut jaw)
> made from a steel tube cut along in half to accommodate
> smaller lugs. Works great.
>
> I like resulting crimps better than achievable with a hex crimper I
> rented before.
> It is easier to make the area between closed jaws arbitrary small,
> increasing pressure. With hex crimper too small die will jam the
> corners of the lugs before complete closure, so you must rotate
> the lug several times before the crimp completed.
>
> Some info in my web page for newbies about crimping:
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/wire.htm
>
> -- 
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 30/09/2005
>
>

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Victor Tikhonov writes:
> Except that 30kW "continuous" out of really 7.5hW motor in this case
> means rather 5-10 minutes or so. Then it will overheat unless you
> spend perhaps another 7.5kW on the blower the size of your car
> to cool it off.

No, surprisingly enough. He's talking about using a 60hz motor at 4x the
frequency (240hz) and 4x the voltage (but rewound with 1/4th the turns of
4x the wire size, to get the voltage back down). You won't get quite 4x the
horsepower, due to higher core, friction, and windage losses; but you will
be close!

People routinely run 60hz motors at 120hz, and they actually run *cooler*
than they did at 60hz because the cooling is improved enough by the higher
fan speed to more than compensate for the slightly higher losses.
--
Lee Hart    814 8th Ave N    Sartell MN 56377    [EMAIL PROTECTED]


> >>So, a 10hp motor (like the surplus center one) could be rewound to
> >>50V, 60Hz, 7.5kW. This would require around 75V of batteries for
> >>60Hz so at 4x the RPMs is a 300V battery pack and 4x the continuous
> >>power is in the order of 30kW continuous.
> >>
> >>Lee, have I stuffed that up, or have I learned some?
> > 
> > 
> > I think you have it exactly right!
>
>
> -- 
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different

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I'm wondering if this rules the Ghiamonster www.ghiamonster.com out of
even the MC class since only the unibody of the original Ghia has been
converted in any way and the rest of the vehicle is custom built from
the ground up.  Furthermore, just to complicate things, I intend to
register it with the DMV as a street legal vehicle.

Can anyone tell me what that makes it?

Steve

> For NEDRA, here's some random ideas:
> 
> A "Stock conversion" class where the car is nearly completely 
> stock except for things needed to electrify. Stock rim sizes, 
> uses the tranny.
> 
> "Street conversion" anything goes as long as it is street 
> legal and a conversion.
> 
> "Modified conversion" anything goes as long as it is a conversion.
> 
> So this now begs the question, what exactly is a "conversion" 
> in NEDRA's eyes? Would a Factory Five Cobra kit be a 
> conversion? Is a tube framed race car that happens to have a 
> car body a conversion?
> Would a 65 Mustang with a fiberglass body and roll cage, but 
> stock floor pan, still be a conversion?

The information contained in this email message is being transmitted to and is 
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Lee Hart wrote:
>> Too little water, and the acid gets so strong it can attack the plates.
>> The plates can also get above the water level, exposed to the air, where
>> they can overheat and melt at high currents.

Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> The portion of the plate which is not submerged in the electrolyte
> does not participate in the current flow - there is nothing to conduct
> out.

The separator between the plates acts as a wick, so there is electrolyte
betweent them. But not enough, and not the right concentration. Also, all
the current from the lower parts of the plates that still are submerged is
flowing through the exposed parts. You really can overheat the plates and
melt them!
--
Lee Hart    814 8th Ave N    Sartell MN 56377    [EMAIL PROTECTED]


From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 10/3/05 2:07:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Grass rootes basic info
>
> 
>
> -- 
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different

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Hello everyone,

I am a newbie wanting to get a good start on building an EV.
I am looking for information on building a safe, economical, vehicle that
will drag 2 adults and 3 kids around. I have several chassis available. A
ford clubcab f150, a 929 Mazda, and a grand wagoneer. I am interested in
building an APU to go with whatever EV I build as well. 

I am interested in groups here in Houston that are developing this sort of
thing. So any links would be appreciated. 

Any guidance suggestions and advice will be greatly appreciated.

James McKethen
James (at) Ip-concepts.com

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Lee Hart wrote:

The separator between the plates acts as a wick, so there is electrolyte
betweent them. But not enough, and not the right concentration. Also, all
the current from the lower parts of the plates that still are submerged is
flowing through the exposed parts. You really can overheat the plates and
melt them!

Correct! I was inly referring to the ion current conduction
between neg ans pos. plates within a cell, (not up though
exposed portion of the plate to the cells interconnect.

My omission!

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different

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Sorry.
Magnalug are the good thick lugs for cables.  
www.wilpowerbattery.com/pdfs/q5.pdf
Flex is the other name for welding cable with the 600V insulation.
The magnalugs are color coded, the stripes people have mentioned that we
crimp between are orange on the 2/0.
There is a coresponding orange dot on the Burdy crimper die, whose Part
number is U27RT.
It crimps the space between the 2 outside orange lines in one 12 ton
shot and it releases when the dies touch at pressure, So the same crimp
every time.

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I'm also a new guy to the list. I've been interested is EV for a while and
have signed on to the list to share ideas. I have corresponded to a local
gentleman (Pete Eckhoff) here in North Carolina.

I'm a EE by training and make a living as a Communications Systems Engineer.


I have a background in PLC's, AC Frequency Drives, Controls systems, etc.

I also have interest in using Carbon Fiber and Carbon/Kevlar materials.
(Looking at using this for Dashboards, hood, trunks, etc. I have been doing
a lot of research on this and have acquired some material samples) and
Lithium Ion Batteries

My chassis is a '66 Ford Mustang (Yes, My Mustang...LOL, no it's not a
Fastback or Convertable, but a 2-Door coupe in Excellent shape). It is
currently stripped down. Front Clip has been replaced with a Mustang II
style which removes the Shock Towers and provides a lot of room in the
Engine compartment.

I'm looking to use this for a local traveling car...around town with the
family, with a secondary purpose as a show/performance car.

Rob Stalnaker

<<attachment: winmail.dat>>


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Michaela Merz wrote:

My next topic is breaks / ABS. The ABS system is disconnected but the
break lines still run through it.  However, the breaks don't respond as
good as on another S-10 with an ICE I have, also with a disconnected ABS
system.

I would do a side by side comparison (try stopping from 30 MPH in a parking lot and measuring the distance) with the trucks loaded to identical weights. If there is still a major difference check the brake systems.
My guesses:
1. Different brake systems, even if they are both S10's with ABS, they might be different model years, or have different brake system. Often manufacturers put better brakes on vehicles with larger engines, or inexpensive brakes on vehicles that are sold into fleet duty. 2. One has an aftermarket Master cylinder installed with the wrong bore size. (Pretty common problem.. in fact some shady brakes places will replace master cylinders with different bore to change the brake feel.)

3. Different pads... a good quality set of pads can have marked difference on stopping power. Especially if mated to the wrong roters.. or is they have gotton grease contamination.

4. Air in the lines... Even thought you say you don't, you probably do. ABS systems especially can be a PITA to bleed. I have never found a bleeding system that works perfectly. The vacuum bleeders and "one-man" bleed kits are nearly useless. The best system I've come up with so far is about 20 feet of clean clear plastic tubing run from the brake bleed fitting back to the master cylinder tank. Pump the brakes to circulate the fluid from wheels back to master cylinder and around a couple times.. most of the air will get carried along and bubble out in the master cylinder. It takes a long while, but works well. Do all four wheels and keep the master cylinder full while charging the tubing for the first time.

Mark





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