EV Digest 4787
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: crimper tools
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Street Conversion vs Modified Conversion
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: TS Connecting Questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: My S-10 again - ABS
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) TS connecting questions
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: TS Connecting Questions
by "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: 914 weight balance
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: fast charger
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Scrapheap Challenge
by "paul compton \(RRes-Roth\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Street Conversion vs Modified Conversion
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: TS Connecting Questions
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Curtis question
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: First drive impressions
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: FW: Battery charging in parallel (A Different Idea) Lee?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: SOC
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Help with my Link 10 (phantom regen!)
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: FW: Battery charging in parallel (A Different Idea) Lee?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Oct 2005 at 11:42, mike golub wrote:
> I was wondering how the "hammer" crimper compares to
> the handle one.
Which one is better for you depends partly on you.
Most people will tell you the hex crimper does a better job, that a hammer
crimper makes less reliable crimps. That's probably true. However, for
feeble wimps like me, the hammer crimper is better. I just don't have
enough arm and shoulder strength to make a hex crimper work right, period.
But I can handle a small sledge reasonably well. I have yet to have
problems with any of my hammer crimps (knock on wood).
The hammer crimper's major downside is that it's just about impossible to
use it to crimp a connector with the cable in the vehicle. Theoretically,
that can be done with a hex crimper. However, I suspect that the handle
length makes this difficult, and for many people the working angles at which
they can get enough grunt on the handles may be limited.
One thing more - the hammer crimper is a LOT cheaper. You can get a decent
one for under $30. A good hex crimper will run over $200. However, Bill
Dube has published instructions for homebrewing a hex crimper from an old
pair of bolt cutters (check auctions and garage sales) and a hex socket.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Oct 2005 at 14:00, jerry dycus wrote:
> I seriously don't think many will pay more for less performance
> though some might for the extra 10-15% range. Also the charger, batts
> will cost much more.
Lee is right. This is not a budget ride, any more than the GM EV1 was.
The induction motor drives I've driven have acted rather like ICE cars with
automatic transmissions. OTOH, the torque curve of series DC drives is
unfamiliar to many people.
An induction motor, especially with well calibrated regen, makes for a more
pleasant and familiar drive for Jane and John Doe. That may be one reason
that many of the limited production EVs used induction drives - so that
drivers (often a fearful lot, suspicious of change) wouldn't find them so
alien at first try. It will be worth the incremental cost, IMO.
The Sunrise is a beautifully designed car. Solectria was a class act, and
the Sunrise was pretty much the pinnacle of their design effort. I know
this car is yours to do with as you please, but I'd hate to see you just
cram a cheap forklift motor into it. It is NOT an economy car and shouldn't
be treated that way. It's a BMW of EVs, please don't turn it into a Kia.
You'll break James Worden's heart, and that is not a joke.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Here's how I see it.
Getting bumped to needing a cage and certified helmet... Is a dream of most
any racer.
So if you need the roll bar to keep running, Hey no problem and congrats!!
If you build a racer with roll bar and cage just to stiffen it and to take
advantage of that fact for better times and stiffer suspensions... aka it's
also a sub frame connector web, Then... you are modifying the Chassis in
ways that make a stocker un competitive. This is feature creep.... and not
in the spirit of "Stock" classes.
So I guess if the roll bar attaches to the stock frame... then it's a safety
conforming modification. It if attaches to a sub frame of tubing, then it
kicks you into Mod. I suspect that the builder of a Modified racer won't
care much since it will be part of his design already.
This is splitting hares.... Until we have a protest, I doubt that anyone
will write it down.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
John Wayland wrote:
> Hello to All,
>
> Paul G. wrote:
>
> > One must carefully consider not allowing roll cages in an SC class
> > car. First, that means that new records will end in the 12's - NHRA
> > won't accept 11's without a cage. Second, someone may want to run a VW
> > kit car some day. They require a cage unless they are not competitive
> > (and NHRA is right about that - they have little side impact strength
> > and are squirrely at speed.)
> >
> These are good points. I'm not closed to the idea of a roll cage, and
> safety should always come first, but my personal feeling is that a roll
> cage screams 'race car'. But then again, the Tango comes factory
> equipped with a full cage....hmmmm.
>
> How does everyone else feel about this? Is having a roll cage in a
> street conversion class EV to much 'race' and moving away from 'street',
> or, is it a proper step for an SC class EV to take as it gets quicker
> through the quarter mile? How about swapping tires once one gets to the
> track and running slicks? I still feel that slicks should be reserved
> for MC class vehicles, but it sure would be fun to see what my low 12
> second car (man, that sounds good) could do with the extra catapult
> action out of the hole real slicks provide! I could do this and not
> submit the time slips to NEDRA to keep things fair in the SC class, just
> to see if White Zombie can pull 11's...then again, the damn thing just
> might pull a high 11 on street tires :-)
>
> >I look forward to seeing the rules, voltage and class, reviewed. It
> means that EV racing is growing - the varied opinions about what the
> >rules mean is showing.
>
> Me too. I'd like to hear from NEDRA board members and get their valued
> opinions. NEDRA? Bill Dube?
>
> See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> First, when connecting TS cells to each other in
> series, I need a 2/0 cable plus a #12 monitoring wire on each
> terminal. Do I put the 2/0 wire's lug against the terminal,
> then the #12 wire's small lug on top of that, then a lock
> washer, and then bolt them all in place?
Yes.
> is there someplace that I can buy lugs with a 5/16 inch hole?
Waytek Wire, p/n 32904. #12-10 wire, 5/16 hole. min qty 20, $0.2716
each:
<http://order.waytekwire.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L0A52C61542B40500
37E5041+M37+ENG>
> Finally, do I need a holdback when tightening the bolt onto
> the TS cell?
Victor will provide the definitive answer, but I have yet to see a
battery with threaded insert type terminals that required one to hold
the threaded insert to keep it from turning, so I would say not.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Oct 2005 at 17:39, Michaela Merz wrote:
> From my understanding, the
> ABS system should not interfere with normal breaking if disconnected. But is
> it
> possible that it still, in some mysterious way, disables me from getting my
> wheels locked?
Are you sure it's not just a matter of the EV's greater weight? Put a half-
ton of batteries in the bed of the other truck, then compare.
Most every conversion EV I've ever seen has had barely adequate brakes - or
worse.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
I wasn't sure if my crimper purchase was worth it. Now I think it was.
Ebay...ebay...ebay
7549656264
7550255500
2/0 flex in magnalug is orange dot. burndy "U27RT"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee an' All;
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
> Jerry Dycus wrote:
> > If anyone can match the 2 motor series setup with AC, BLDC, PM,
> > please let me know, but I don't know of any that even come close.
> > The 10-1 diff it used is still available if a high rpm AC, ect can be
> found.
> James said that the Solectria gearbox about 10 to one would, could, be
available, but it's a AC setup, too high for a DC motor. I think we would
haft to mix and match deopending if your Sunrise is gunna be a AC or DC
machine.
> The Sunrise II is going to be an expensive, higher-end EV. As such, I
don't
> see much reason for doing it "on the cheap". I can see two possible
routes;
> an ultra-efficient, quiet, clean, commuter much like Solectria's vision.
Like I rode in the other noght. It was done in GM interior grey, very
plain, to me, elegently neat, a Geo instrument cluster, airbags glove box. I
felt that I was getting in a Hondasque sorta car. It was done nicely , by
James upholstery shop. The car DIDN'T have that homemade feel. I coulda
flipped the Chrysler keys from a Neon I think and said" Put it in Forward
and aim it"Swoosh! Away ya go!
> Or, a tire-burning, high-performance sports car, more like the EV1 vision.
> For a few bux more!
> For the Solectria version, AC makes sense. If the 10:1 differential is
> readily available, then using one of Victor's Siemens AC motors and
> inverters may be the most attractive option. Or, Solectria is a small
> company; if they could build an AC motor and controller, so could we. We
> might be able to do a design turn on the Solectria design, and tweak it up
> with newer parts at a more reasonable cost.
>
> Without access to the special differential or a good source of AC motors
> and inverters, a pair of DC motors and PWM controller may be the best
> choice. It could certainly deliver breathtaking performance, as befitting
a
> sports car. I am very impressed by what a pair of ADC motors and Zilla
> controller can do!
>
> For DC, Bob Schneeviess proposed a good drive setup. He found a source of
> high quality 5:1 gear reducers that bolt onto the end of ADC motors.Mount
> the two motors transversely, one in front, one in back. The front motor's
> gear reducer is on the left, staggers its shaft rearward, and connects to
> the right front wheel. The rear motor's gear reducer is on the right,
> staggers its shaft forward, and connects to the left front wheel. The two
> shafts are offset a few inches so they miss each other. The universal
> joints take up the small angular difference to accomodate this. This gets
> rid of the differential and has a single in-line gear reduction for
> efficiency.
> --Hey! Lee, I like that, as 2 motors are the best diff out there! Been
there done that in my Taiwan EV thousands of years ago<g>!Or a page from
Renaunasonce Motors book, Bob Beaumont's Sportscar the Tropica with robust
belt drives to each wheel, cog belts like on the big HD Motorcycles
> Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> > As I am or maybe a sep-ex but most likely the least
> expensive with good power will be a 2 motor series or series/parallel
setup
> direct driving it thru a differential. Modern large forklift controllers
> make this easy to do now as they are designed for twin motors, higher
> voltages.
> >Motor stuff is evolving as I peck all this out. With DC Sep Ex would be
great. If down the trak a bit Otmar/Warfield sit down and design a package
deal-motor and controller, like the song" You can't have one with out the
Other" Jerry Warfield sez sep Exes are no problem, for the MOTOR that is. Up
to the Electronic Garus here. A bigger Alltrax as made for the Electrax.
THAT's a sep ex! I drove Dave Roden's Alltraxed Electrac, was great, velvet
smooth gobs of grunt for pushing and plowing.SOMEday I will finish Mine
up<g>!
> >
> > The drive system I'm looking at costs well under $2k for the
> motor/controller/contactors with 600 motor amps and serious torque, about
> as much as the front drive/suspension will handle probably.
> >
> >
> >
> > designed for AC. A DC drive is possible of course, but without a
> > transmission, a big enough DC motor and PWM controller may cost as much
> > as an AC drive.
> >I think a 9 inch direct drive would have plenty of GO for a Sunrise
> > > We will have a 2 seat sportscar with rear drive for the really hot,
> > > fast EV market with really great looks, easily out classing most on
> > > the market now.
> >
> > I thought the Sunrise was a 4-seater; a mid-sized car like a Camry. Or
> > are you talking here about a different vehicle?
> >
> > Sunrise, well I wasn't sure til I met ours. It's a two seater with a
small seat in back, two kar seats for the kids will fit in nicely. When yur
kid is as big as me he could still squeeze in, but after all , yur not
riding to Portland from CT in it. Well, not just yet!
Interesting note here when I stopped for truck Diseasel fuel ,a kid, say
23, came up to me , from a crush load of kids in a gas rig, and sez" Please
settle an argument here, what IS the body in primer on the truck?" An Acura
Something, he fired a car model at me , which went right by me as I'm not up
on car models, anyhow. I said, jokingly that the "Solectria" BIG White
letters on a Tomato Red Force, on the trailer was REALLY a Geo Metro, he
KNEW what that was, but he was impressed when I sed that it, one on the
flatbed, was a new electric car design, and we were hoping to produce. He
liked that!As my travels were after dark and awful hours of the morning, not
too many saw Sunrise slip into CT!
> > Yes it is, there is another composite monocoque EV sportscar
> in our future though the Freedom EV and Sunrise must be done first.
> >THAT's a full plate, right there!
> > And probably a mini van, SUV and mini-pick up on the Sunrise
A FOUR DOOR ....YES! A wagon, Oh I love it when you talk like that!!
> chassis too. As most of the work will already be done, just make new
> bodies for the chassis will be realitively easy compared from starting
from
> scratch. And the 3 will share doors, the hardest part of building a car,
> truck.
> >
> > Bob took a ride in James' Sunrise and even at his really tall
> size, fit comfortably. Maybe Bob could tells us about that ride,
> impressions?
> >Yes I liked it! It didn't feel like a home made car at all. It was
chilly, but the heat came up, the defroster cleared the fog off the
windshield, simple panel titled " Solectria" controlled a simple switchgroup
to get heat, vent, all that silly stuff. Oh yes! the trunk, thought you
would never ask!<hg>!
Nice and DEEP, will swallow up two good size suitcases standing up. The
center tube intrudes into it a tad, but to get at the batteries ya open a
gap in the rear bumper and back trunk wall to slide them out. This would be
a royal pain in the ass for floodies, though. Sealed would be the way to go.
Hawker Aero's?Maybe? Yellow tops? That sorta thing.
> > Reading it's brouchure I have, it has 2 airbags too.
> >
> >
> > > You get that EV1 gem-like finish and you will get your business some
> > > attention.
> > You BET! Well..... I am<g>!
> > That's for sure! A Sunrise could be a perfect replacement for mourning
> > EV1 drivers.
> >
> >
> >
> > That's a major market for it, EV-1 ex owners. I'd like to
> beat the EV-1 in every way we can performance wise and with the lower
> Sunrise's weight, I believe it's possible and do it at a reasonable cost.
> >
> > Plus as a 4 seater, it has much wider appeal than the EV-1
> could ever have.
> >
> > I'm hoping that within the yr it takes to produce it, good,
> reilable Li-ions will be available so it can have a 300 mile range. If
> Kokams could become affordable as they ramp up to mass production, it
would
> be really sweet !!
> >
> >
> >
> > As in all my EV's I'll build, it will be repairable easily by
the
> owner with most anything taking 30 minutes or much less to repair or
> replace with mostly locally available parts.
> > I can see Henry Ford smiling, now!
> > Also upgradeable fairly easy to any new tech that comes along.
> >
> > We need to come up with a new name as we can't use Sunrise and
it
> will be modified to improve it so it won't be anyway.
> >OK Sports fans, a new name? Let's hear it from the gang here<g>! My
thought: "Electro Liner"
Led Sled's taken<g>!
Seeya
Bob
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had troule finding 5/16 hole ring terminals too. OSH and Pepboys had
some with 5/16, the fancy gold plated ones. they are gold over copper
and are a little heavier so it looks like they arn't just hype.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
what do you mean by:
"2/0 flex in magnalug is orange dot."
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wasn't sure if my crimper purchase was worth it.
> Now I think it was.
>
> Ebay...ebay...ebay
> 7549656264
> 7550255500
>
> 2/0 flex in magnalug is orange dot. burndy "U27RT"
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> First, when connecting TS cells to each other in series, I need a 2/0
cable
> plus a #12 monitoring wire on each terminal. Do I put the 2/0 wire's lug
> against the terminal, then the #12 wire's small lug on top of that, then a
> lock washer, and then bolt them all in place?
You need a *lot* of ring terminals. Get the good ones, from an electrical
supplier (I use Waytek Wire); they will have exactly what you need. Don't
bother with cheap stuff from Autozone or Home Depot.
Frankly, I think 2/0 is pointlessly heavy and hard to work with. I would
use flat buss bars, or perhaps the flat woven cable ones that my Thundersky
cells came with.
On what order to connect; put the high-current ring terminal on the bottom,
right against the post of the Thundersky cell. Put your smaller terminals,
washers, etc. on top. The current mainly flows directly from post to
terminal; not thru the bolt.
--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Second, the TS cells have about a 5/16 inch bolt hole. But at Home Depot,
> Ace Hardware, etc., then only little lugs I can find are ones with 1/4
inch
> or 3/8 inch holes. The 1/4 inch is obviously too small--I tried reaming
it
> on the drill press, but that just mangled it. Yet the edge of the 3/8
seems
> so thin, basically the lug is the same diameter as the 1/4 inch, but with
a
> bigger hole in the middle. Are the 3/8 inchers okay to use, or is there
> someplace that I can buy lugs with a 5/16 inch hole?
>
> Finally, do I need a holdback when tightening the bolt onto the TS cell?
> I'm having trouble finding a wrench thin enough to fit between the cell's
> top and the 2/0 lug. The best I can think of at this point is to buy a
> router wrench and grind it down. If, on the other hand, I don't need a
> holdback, how do I know when I've gotten the bolt tight enough to hold
> without torquing too hard and damaging the cell terminal?
>
> Thanks for putting up with a neophyte.
>
> Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's not critical, though it's better if the block is approx the same
height as the scale is when compressed.
Personally I wouldn't go with a 12ft lever since it can be hard to find
one that won't sag. A three foot lever should be sufficient.
Before conversion you should only have 500-600 lbs on each wheel so you
could even use a short lever
0 Tire 2 feet
================================
[] | []
Block 1 foot Scale
In this case the wheel weight would be twice the displayed weight on the
scale.
For best accuracy, the block (fulcrum) should have as narrow a contact
spot as practical and should be at exactly the 0 foot mark (note the lever
can/should extend past the left side of the fulcrum)
Likewise the contact point on the scale should be as small as practical,
on the center of the scale and precisesly at the 2 foot (or 3 foot or
whatever) point.
The center of the tire should be directly over the one foot mark.
> So how high is the block then? Does it have to be exactly the same height
> as the scale? What is the formula for figuring the weight?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 5:39 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: 914 weight balance
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ben Apollonio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 11:46 AM
> Subject: 914 weight balance
>
>
> I don't really have any way of measuring what the
>> car's original or unloaded weights are, so I'm don't have the numbers
>> I'd need to maintain the original balance.
>> In your opinion/experience, what's the best way to arrange things?
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Ben
>
> You can measure the weight of each wheel by using the principle "Give me a
> lever and I can move the world" - Archimedes.
>
> What I used was a bathroom scale, a lever, a jack and 4 jack stands.
>
> tire
> 0ft----------4ft----------8ft----------12ft
> block scale
>
> The principle is that if the 'tire' exerts a pressure of 200 lbs on the
> scale, and since the distance from scale to tire is 2 x the distance of
> tire
> to block, the weight on the block is 2 x 200 or 400, then the true weight
> of
> the 'tire' is 600 lbs.
>
> I did this by jacking up each wheel and putting the axles near the tires
> on
> jack stands, and making sure all the tires were level. Then I marked off 4
> ft on my lever, a 2"x 2" square iron channel, you can use anything as long
> as it will hold the weight and not deflect too much, and put that under
> the
> wheel with the scale on one end and a block under the other end.
>
> I then jacked up that tire, removed the jack stand and let the tire down
> until the full weight was on the lever. It turned out to be about 500 for
> each front tire, so the front end weighted 1000 lbs. The rear was about
> 450
> for each tire, or 900lbs, for a total of 1900 lbs.
>
> This is for a Chevy S-10, with all the ICE stuff gone, transmission in and
> the pickup bed removed, pretty light.
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Joe, and Rich.
The PFC50 sounds like an option for this application. The only
problems are that it's not isolated (these cars have a built in
leakage detector) and it's not CE marked, not sure if it's EMC
compliant or could be made so.
Thanks again
Evan
On 10/3/05, Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, The PFC-50 stocker will produce 50 amps.
>
> The Buck Enhanced PFC-50 will draw 50 amps from 240 (12 kW in) is ~90 %
> efficient (10.8 kW out) for 54 amps into a 200 Volt load.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 3:54 AM
> Subject: Re: fast charger
>
>
> > Hi Joe,
> > 45 @ 200V. Including the car's onboard charger, the total is 58A.
> > For an off-the-shelf solution, would the PFC50 be comparable?
> > Thanks
> > Evan
> >
> > On 9/30/05, Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > How many amps did you deliver and at what voltage?
> > >
> > > Joe Smalley
> > > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > > Fiesta 48 volts
> > > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>; "Anton
> Bech"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 11:51 AM
> > > Subject: fast charger
> > >
> > >
> > > > I just gave my fast charger its first proper test run. It's about
> > > > 13kW in total (isolated), with the car's charger providing 3kW of
> > > > that.
> > > > The pack is 100AH, 162V NiCad.
> > > >
> > > > It took 32 minutes to charge from 25% to 75%. Normally that would
> > > > take about 4 hours or so, so I'm quite happy with it. Based on this,
> > > > it should take less than 1 hour to charge from the usual minimum of
> > > > 20% to full, which is worth 40 miles (or more driven carefully).
> > > >
> > > > The charger is supplied with 230V, single phase. This is the standard
> > > > supply to all houses in the UK, usually at 80 or 100A, although just
> > > > to be different my house is 3 phase and only 60A. Anyway, the fuse
> > > > held although the lights seriously dimmed! I used a 63A MCB and an
> > > > enormous 63A plug and socket. Unfortunately I couldn't find any flex
> > > > big enough, and the ex-welder supply cable I used was getting a bit
> > > > hot after 30 minutes, which is why I stopped it at that point.
> > > >
> > > > Many thanks to Peter Perkins for donation of the vital parts!
> > > >
> > > > I will put some pictures on my web page after I've found a decent
> > > > mains cable for it.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2/myev.html
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Scrapheap Challenge (also re-Broadcast and produced in the US as
Junkyard Wars).
UK Series 8 is three programmes into it's run.
Next week is off-road EV's with yours truly as one of the team experts.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
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--- Begin Message ---
SCCA Solo II (autocross) rules might provide some ideas.
In their stock classes, roll bars are considered safety items, and
are permitted. However, they must bolt into the car, and you may not
weld them in. Subframe connectors, and other forms of chassis
bracing, are not allowed.
Another thing they do is allow any DOT tire in stock classes, like
Hoosier DOT "race" tires or DOT drag radials. You must, however, keep
the rims stock sized. Just food for thought, I'm not sure if this is
a good idea for NEDRA.
Stock cars must be almost completely stock for autocross.
For NEDRA, here's some random ideas:
A "Stock conversion" class where the car is nearly completely stock
except for things needed to electrify. Stock rim sizes, uses the
tranny.
"Street conversion" anything goes as long as it is street legal and a
conversion.
"Modified conversion" anything goes as long as it is a conversion.
So this now begs the question, what exactly is a "conversion" in
NEDRA's eyes? Would a Factory Five Cobra kit be a conversion? Is a
tube framed race car that happens to have a car body a conversion?
Would a 65 Mustang with a fiberglass body and roll cage, but stock
floor pan, still be a conversion?
--- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Paul G. wrote:
>
> > One must carefully consider not allowing roll cages in an SC
> class
> > car. First, that means that new records will end in the 12's -
> NHRA
> > won't accept 11's without a cage. Second, someone may want to run
> a VW
> > kit car some day. They require a cage unless they are not
> competitive
> > (and NHRA is right about that - they have little side impact
> strength
> > and are squirrely at speed.)
> >
> These are good points. I'm not closed to the idea of a roll cage,
> and
> safety should always come first, but my personal feeling is that a
> roll
> cage screams 'race car'. But then again, the Tango comes factory
> equipped with a full cage....hmmmm.
>
> How does everyone else feel about this? Is having a roll cage in a
> street conversion class EV to much 'race' and moving away from
> 'street',
> or, is it a proper step for an SC class EV to take as it gets
> quicker
> through the quarter mile?
> ...
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
TS cells have metric bolt holes.
Some are M6 (6mm) and some - yours - are M8 (8mm).
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Dennis
Sent: Monday, 3 October 2005 1:50 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: TS Connecting Questions
I'm so new at all of this, that I need answers to even simple questions.
First, when connecting TS cells to each other in series, I need a 2/0
cable
plus a #12 monitoring wire on each terminal. Do I put the 2/0 wire's
lug
against the terminal, then the #12 wire's small lug on top of that, then
a
lock washer, and then bolt them all in place?
Second, the TS cells have about a 5/16 inch bolt hole. But at Home
Depot,
Ace Hardware, etc., then only little lugs I can find are ones with 1/4
inch
or 3/8 inch holes. The 1/4 inch is obviously too small--I tried reaming
it
on the drill press, but that just mangled it. Yet the edge of the 3/8
seems
so thin, basically the lug is the same diameter as the 1/4 inch, but
with a
bigger hole in the middle. Are the 3/8 inchers okay to use, or is there
someplace that I can buy lugs with a 5/16 inch hole?
Finally, do I need a holdback when tightening the bolt onto the TS cell?
I'm having trouble finding a wrench thin enough to fit between the
cell's
top and the 2/0 lug. The best I can think of at this point is to buy a
router wrench and grind it down. If, on the other hand, I don't need a
holdback, how do I know when I've gotten the bolt tight enough to hold
without torquing too hard and damaging the cell terminal?
Thanks for putting up with a neophyte.
Bill Dennis
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There was am email last week regarding Curtis engineering. If someone has that
could you email me at home [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <
Check my math, I have a DMM conected to a shunt for amperage as my only
display. So this is an estimate.
Must be a good dmm ,many cheep ones don't work bucuse of noise from
controller ..
I took a couple of first drives today and I cruised at 72 to 144 amps
3rd gear about 45 to 55 mph
another way to brake in the motor is to let it run for a day slow . I would
be driving in 2nd , that 300zx that I did with 156 v will do 50 in 2nd ,
this will help brake in the motor and keep the motor amps down
The most I saw was 312 amps during an acceleration.
well thats batteries amps not motor amp , and that motor probable was seeing
the 1000 amps , the problem is these motors don't say anything , so you have
to take it easy in the begining ,
considering a 204Volt(17*12) system that is cruiseing at ~14.4kw to ~29kw
If I held this up for an hour I would get 45 to 50 miles
14000wh / 45mile = 311wh/mile
29000wh / 50mile = 580 wh/mile
Seems a little high?
We talked about this being a big car , the one I did at 156v uses about 140
amps at 55 ,,,, now my Porsche 924 at 218 v uses about 70 amps at 55 ,,,
It probable will get better as you drive it around a bit and get the rust
off the brakes and just the freeing up of the moving parts . .
steve clunn
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Interesting- I have seen a Ford EV-Ranger Motor and
Controller. And it has Ford emblems all over it. And
Victor informed me they were Siemiens Motors and
Controllers. Was Ballard buying Siemiens and selling
it to Ford to put their Emblems on it?
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
> > I'm hoping we can find an affordable AC drive.
>
> Something I never knew till just now:
>
> "Ballard supplied electric drives to Ford for use in
> the
> battery-powered Ford Ranger pickup trucks,
> introduced in 1998, as well
> as Ford's battery-powered TH!NK city electric
> vehicle."
>
>
http://www.ballard.com/be_a_customer/transportation/electric_drives
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill wrote:
>>I looked thru your other pages and your http://www.haritech.com/relay.htm
>>looks very neat. Very nice tight package.
>>
>>Is there any reason why you didn't take all the status lights and switches
>>and just run them into the passenger compartment?
>
> It is not a good idea to bring a lot of high voltage into the
> driver's compartment.
Are the status lights and switches high voltage? All I meant were the lights
and switches, not the contactors etc, which I know are HV.
>> Also you don't happen to have a schematic that I can base my circuits
>> on, even a rough one would be very helpful.
>
> I should have kept better notes. :^)
>
> The Zilla installation manual on http://www.cafeelectric.com is a
> good place to start.
Got that.
> If i had it to do all over again, I would have started with a
> bigger box and made it more accessible.
It does look a little cramped, I was going to use a larger box in any case.
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
> Interesting- I have seen a Ford EV-Ranger Motor and
> Controller. And it has Ford emblems all over it. And
> Victor informed me they were Siemiens Motors and
> Controllers. Was Ballard buying Siemiens and selling
> it to Ford to put their Emblems on it?
It wouldn't surprise me. Each guy probably marked it up 40% and passed
it along, too!
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart"
If there is a larger difference between the two pack voltages, you'll
need some kind of regulator. A linear series regulator can be used, but
wastes a lot of power. A small EV motor controller can be used; you'll
need a series inductor, and some mechanism to operate the "throttle pot"
to regulate charging.
How would you do that? If your two packs are with in 36v of each other could
you use a golf cart controller with a small 36v supply to power it . Hooking
the two packs postive's together then running the neg - of the controller
to the - house pack and the - of the car ( or lawn mower ) to the M- of
the controller with a coil in line on this side. A 36v supply to power the
controllers brains , hooked to the b+ and b- ?
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab"
I went for a drive, about 3-4 miles one way. Forgot my wallet and headed
home and then I had to creep home,
How far were you planning on going ?
I am not sure if it was the zilla got
hot or if my batteries were totally dead, I havent hooked up the water
yet.
No cooling for the zilla ! I've had my water pump stop working a few times
and am happy to say the zilla cut back on the power and didn't blow it top ,
this sounds like want you had happen, the problem with my first water pump
set up was the 12 to 120v inverter .
The 12v battery voltage dipped and the inverter shut its self off. I'm using
a 12v electric fuel pump now .
PS. Vacuum pump seems top work fine.
OOOOh so you got brakes but no water cooling .... :-) ,,, also don't
forget to brake in you motor and batteries easy ,,, for the first 500 miles
> this is the 300 zx right ,
Steve Clunn
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Well believe I have narrowed down the problems to the DC ground wire.
I can repeat the 510 reading with the pack voltage line removed, so it
is not noise or something on the + pack voltage line. I changed the +
power to a 12 V hawker I use for a trolling motor with the negative of
the hawker connected to pin one of the Emeter. Still have the problem
reading with amps reading 510. Therefore there is no issue with the +
12 V line. Disconnected (i.e. clipped) the negative line coming out of
pin one on the Emeter leading to the prescaler leaving the line
connected to the - terminal of the hawker, the current immediately
changed to the proper -16Amps used by my heater (which was running the
whole time). I therefore conclude that there is something either in the
negative volt line or the prescaler (which should be a straight through
connection). I'm going to bypass that section of the line and connect
directly to the negative post of the battery to see if that eliminates
the problem.
I'll post results to the list.
Lynn\
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 4:34 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Help with my Link 10 (phantom regen!)
Hello Ryan,
You can get shielded cable design for the Link-10 from EV Parts Store.
It is double shielded, there is a aluminum tape wrap over each wire and
than a insulation layer with another expanded aluminum shield over that,
and than finally cover with a plastic jacket. I think it's a 8 or 10
wire cable.
The internal shields are floating and only one end of the outside shield
near the charger is chassis grounded only. Used heat shrinks on the ends
of this cable so the internal shields do not contact the outer shields.
If any unshielded wire extension are used from this shield cable like to
a prescaler and link shunt, than each pair should be twisted going to
that circuit.
The two wires going to the Link shunt goes to no 2 and 3 on the Link 10
should be twisted. The two 12 VDC Black and White wire are twisted to
the Prescaler and the Yellow and Blue wire are twisted that goes from
the Prescaler to No. 4 and 5 on the Link 10.
If you used a battery temperature sensor, that is also twisted from the
battery connections to No. 6 and 8 on the Link 10 which should be the
isolated 12 VDC from the prescaler DC-DC 12V isolated output.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Bohm<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV List<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: Help with my Link 10 (phantom regen!)
Hi Everyone,
At times, my current reading goes positive too (while discharging!).
This started happening after installing a relatively heavy load near
the
shunt wires. So I'm assuming I'm getting noise on the shunt wires.
They are quite long - running the motor compartment up front to the
back
of the vehicle where I chose to install the e-meter near the charger.
I
used 16 gauge twisted wire. It isn't shielded.
I'm wondering, what have others successfully used for the shunt wires?
Thanks,
Ryan
>Ok, I've chased this problem for weeks and am appealing to the list
for
>help. My link-10 meter is acting strangely. The meter seems to work
>correctly until I turn on something in the 12 volt system (fan,
>headlights, brake lights, whatever). When this happens, the current
>starts jumping around and finally settles on +510 Amps. That would
be
>great if it were true!
>
>
>
>
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com<http://www.evsource.com/>> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Lee Hart"
>> If there is a larger difference between the two pack voltages,
>> you'll need some kind of regulator. A linear series regulator
>> can be used, but wastes a lot of power. A small EV motor
>> controller can be used; you'll need a series inductor, and
>> some mechanism to operate the "throttle pot" to regulate charging.
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> How would you do that?
A crude example would be a set of PV panels charging a 36v pack of
batteries. A 36v golf cart controller uses this to charge a 12v battery
thru some kind of inductor (the secondary of an old high-current
transformer, or a spool of heavy wire). Use a screwdriver adjust trimpot
for the potbox.
When you first connect the 12v battery, the controller charges at the
maximum current its current limit allows. But you adjust the trimpot to
about 1/3rd throttle, so as the battery comes up to 13.5-15v, the
controller comes out of current limit and now delivers a "constant"
voltage. Tweak it for a reasonable float or end-of-charge voltage.
An improvement is to have two trimpots; one set for a 15v end-of-charge
voltage, and one for a 13.5v float voltage. Use a timer, amphour
counter, temperature sensor, etc. to automatically switch from the
"charge" to the "float" trimpot when the battery reaches full.
You can further improve this to automatically adjust the potbox
resistance to get any desired charging profile.
> If your two packs are with in 36v of each other could you use a golf
> cart controller with a small 36v supply to power it?
No, it's not quite that simple. The controller needs to handle the full
pack voltage.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
