EV Digest 4803
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: value of S-10
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) FREE Cushman Truckster near Sacramento
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Lester Charger
by Ross Henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Solectria E-10 stalling
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: List Admin - was Re: Emailing: 655.html
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Increasing charging current of Cheap 12 volt switched charger
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) No html or attachments please
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Precharge resistor with DLS -55/controller.
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: s-10 value
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Lester Charger
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Increasing charging current of Cheap 12 volt switched
charger
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Increasing charging current of Cheap 12 volt switched charger
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) 72vdc Altrax car conversion.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Modified bad boy design questions
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Crimp versus solder (was: Cable Crimping Tools)
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Dragster crash photos from Speedworld (OT)
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Increasing charging current of Cheap 12 volt switched charger
by "David Roden " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: s-10 value
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Wanted: dead 20+ HP outboard for electric boat
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Weeping battery tops/Floodies
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: MagneCharger inlet on eBay
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Details of the Lee Hart Zener-Lamp regulator
by "stU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Wanted: dead 20+ HP outboard for electric boat
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Modified bad boy design questions
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Weeping battery tops/Floodies
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Details of the Lee Hart Zener-Lamp regulator
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Lee Hart's zener lamp regulator
by kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Dragster crash photos from Speedworld (OT)
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: s-10 value
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: MagneCharger inlet on eBay
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
We are talking the production truck here right? EVBones (www.evbones.com) sells
refurbished trucks with warranty. 97's are $20,000 and 98's are $25,000. These
all have good battery packs, everything is clean, they are perfect. I've seen
some of their trucks in person, they're all very nice.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Greetings from a lurker-
I have been given the opportunity to buy a GM S-10 pickup with only 3500
miles on it. I have absolutely no idea whether or not it runs, or what shape
the battery pack is in, but I do know that the body looks just like a 3500 mile
body should. My questions are: What can I expect to have to pay for this
truck, is it a good first EV for a duffer, and is it easily repairable by a
Sunday mechanic.
Thanks for your assistance,
Bruce McClure
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do not contact me. I'm just passing this on. Lawrence Rhodes....
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:59:42 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: David Russel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: FREE Cushman near Sacramento
From the microcar list, a relevant freebie:
Do not contact me! The following add is on Craig's List
(www.craigslist.org) for Sacramento as a free item.
You can cut [EMAIL PROTECTED] and paste it in the TO line of
your email.
cushman truckster 1976 FREE
Reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2005-10-05, 9:56PM PDT
i have a cushman truckster and i hope it still works but some vandals
have broke the front windsheild and rear window and stole the batterie
and im shure it still works but but it still needs gas because they
triped it over and all the gas came out the car uses premium gas and
it is a 1976 cushman truckster so take it now before thay do more to
it HURRY!! p.s. i was storing it on some nearby land and they just
vandalised it its a good car you might have to put in 100 dllars at
the most for the glass and the baterie do not email if you cant tow
it!! it needs to go
* this is in or around winters
* no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other
commercial interests
Sincerely,
David
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gentlemen, The Lester charger on my 120 V system has a "Winter / Summer"
switch on the front. Can anyone shed a little light on this for me? Ross
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Oct 2005 at 19:25, Jacob wrote:
> David, I do not have this on my E-10.
If not, it's probably not worth adding. It doesn't really tell you that
much.
Look for loose, dirty, or corroded connections on the control (not high
current) side. These controllers use a db25 connector; check it. Check all
the inline connectors. Check the potbox with an analog ohmmeter; move the
arm slowly and watch for big drops in resistance.
I wonder f this is related in any way to what caused the problem with your
second controller.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Oct 2005 at 17:53, Andrew Letton wrote:
> Isn't the maillist software supposed to strip all attachments? How did
> the file that was attached to the "Emailing: 655.html" message make it
> through?
The list attachment stripper is currently down for repairs. Messages are
being scanned for malware content, but it's still a good idea to be cautious
with suspicious-looking posts.
I strongly recommend that those using Windows OS obtain and install an
alternative email client, such as Pegasus or Eudora. It's better to avoid
using Outlook or Outlook Express, as those programs are the usual target of
virus and worm authors. For even better security, abandon IE and use
Firefox, Mozilla, or one of the many variants of these standard browsers.
Now back to EVs!
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 7 Oct 2005 at 16:23, Robert Chew wrote:
> Upon reading a few articles regarding chargers I came to the conclusion that
> there might be a possibility to increase the current output of my cheap 12
> volt charger.
Give it up. That little guy is just too feeble. Get a real EV charger.
This is my last post on this subject. Maybe you just have to learn the hard
way.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
The list filter is currently down for repairs. Messages are being scanned
for malware content.
Until the filter is back up, please refrain from sending html and
attachments to the EV list. It's been the policy for many years that this
list accepts plain text email only. Please comply with this out of courtesy
to the people all over the world who still read this list over slow, high
cost connections. Set your email client to send plain text only, and don't
add attachments.
Thanks for your cooperation.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Oct 2005 at 18:17, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> I get a big zorch everytime I plug in the DLS-55.
Ah, fond (?) memories of Todd chargers ...
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
If this is the GM factory S-10, it's a highly proprietary, integrated,
system-designed EV. From what I hear, they're difficult to work on without
GM's specialized tools.
You pretty much have to use the battery for which it's designed, which can
be obscenely expensive. I believe that there are some used modules floating
around right now, recycled from the (perfectly good) vehicles that GM
destroyed, but when those are gone you are apt to end up with a very high
cost per mile EV. If history is any indication, most people who buy these
trucks will probably use them until the batteries are toast, and then park
them.
To avoid the above problems, you'd probably have to gut the entire drive and
start from scratch with "open source" EV parts.
I'd avoid this vehicle unless you can get it for about what the bare glider
is worth (that is, same year ICE S-10 without engine and trans).
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 7 Oct 2005 at 13:10, Ross Henderson wrote:
> The Lester charger on my 120 V system has a "Winter / Summer"
> switch on the front.
If left connected after they shut off, Lestronic chargers restart every 2.5
days to top off the battery. With the switch in the winter position, this
happens more frequently to keep the battery warm, though I don't recall how
often. Lester say that the switch should not be left in Winter position for
long term storage or if ambient temp is above 50 deg F / 10 deg C.
This is not an adequate substitute for properly insulating your battery.
When I had one of these chargers, I left the switch in summer position to
prevent overcharging.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
At 12:20 PM 10/7/2005, you wrote:
So if you have a 312V pack the charger would cost ~$1,900 and you would
have to design a float circuit also. Probably not worth it unless you
have a source of cheap transformer with that fancy secondary.
Just buy a PFC-20 (or 30, or 50) and have something faster, better, and
more reliable.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G;day Mate,
Like everyone, I love electric cars and the idea of owning and driving one.
And like most, I am almost on the way. Unlike some, I have little to no
money to get the 'Real Ev Charger'. Still got to fork out tuition fees,
board, car registration for the other car and I still need to eat, right.
And I cannot afford to work too much at the expense of my grades!
So really, there is no harm in trying this idea out. And if it works which
theoretically can, I'll be doing myself and my thesis a favor by hopefully
gaining some extra marks at the end for creating something useful with some
large constraints, Money!
I am sure that there are a few people on this list that are in the same boat
and could hopefully benefit by using alternative ideas to get hopefully
almost the same job done but using only a fraction of the cost.
Thanks for your input though
Cheers
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: 08 October 2005 06:45
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Increasing charging current of Cheap 12 volt switched charger
On 7 Oct 2005 at 16:23, Robert Chew wrote:
> Upon reading a few articles regarding chargers I came to the conclusion
that
> there might be a possibility to increase the current output of my cheap 12
> volt charger.
Give it up. That little guy is just too feeble. Get a real EV charger.
This is my last post on this subject. Maybe you just have to learn the hard
way.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone converted a car using an 72vdc/400 amp Altrax and a
VW/Festiva/Sprint? What kind of hill climbing/sucess as a functional EV?
Seems it might be good for Sacramento but San Francisco? I have some people
interested but I don't want to advise if it is too wimpy. Options are 12
golfcar, 6 each sealed batteries like an NEV of 6 flooded like an NEV.
Thanks for any info. I'd have to think it would out perform an NEV.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm thinking about building a modified bad boy charger when I upgrade from the
96V system currently installed. If I go to a 156V system
(visions of PFC's dancing in my head, but only there, for now...) what I'm
considering is this: 119.5 VAC from the 20amp outlet in the garage,
through a bridge rectifier to get ~ 168V DC. I've picked up a 450 watt
transformer with 14.5 and 11.3 VAC options from the secondary.
Running that through another rectifier and adding it in series should result in
about 14.4 or 14.1 volts per battery, respectively. I'd use a
cheap timer and a photoelectric sensor on the zener lamp regulator on one of
the batteries (in series) to select 14.4, with 14.1 being the
default voltage. (GFCI outlet, Amp meter & fuse or circuit breaker, too, of
course.) I'll need to watch it to see how many amps it draws at the
different voltages and see what voltage works best at what stage of the
charging cycle, of course, until I get a feel for the batteries (and my
circuit breaker.)
What am I missing? Do I need a honking big electrolytic capacitor for the
ripple? Am I completely delusional about this? Be frank - I can take it
(and I need it!) I know that 14.1 is a little "hot" for a float valtage, and
14.4 is a little weak for the bulk charge, but I'm thinking both are "good
enough"?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can buy a $15 propane torch at the home improvement store and use a
spool of the rosin core solder that's on the rack right next to the torch.
Just letting you know since you think it's more expensive.
--
Martin K
Cor van de Water wrote:
>Neon John wrote:
>
>
>>My recommendation remains for *home* constructors is to solder the
>>lugs whenever possible. Soldering can be done with tools most people
>>already have at hand, propane torches, solder, flux, etc. No need to
>>spend lots of money on a set of metal displacement crimpers.
>>
>>
>
>All my soldering irons are under 25W as they are intended for elctronics,
>so I would need to buy a torch or 100+ Watt iron to do this kind of
>soldering, also my solder is a very thin gauge and no flux allowed.
>
>On the other hand, I bought a hammer-crimper tool (picture just seen
>in a recent post) for $20 including shipping on Ebay.
>
>I will be (home-) crimping. (Which I understand is also required by code)
>
>Regards,
>
>Cor van de Water
>Systems Architect
>
>
--
Martin Klingensmith
http://wwia.org/
http://nnytech.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Whoever it was that wanted the dragster crash photos from Speedworld, please
let me know who you were again. Sorry it took forever but I have finally
gotten it done. Anyway, I am on a different comp and don't have your address
here. They are Zipped. Hopefully you have WinZip.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8 Oct 2005 at 8:13, Robert Chew wrote:
> Unlike some, I have little to no money to
> get the 'Real Ev Charger'.
Been there. Believe me, you are not alone.
> So really, there is no harm in trying this idea out.
Except to the battery!
I'm going to break my vow and point out that many EV hobbyists have traveled
this road before you. There are recognized and time-proven answers to low
cost charging. Many of them have been posted in this thread already.
1. Build a charger using a surplus or used Variac and a large bridge
rectifier, also available surplus. Add a timer from the hardware store or a
garage sale and you have a charger.
2. Call around to golf car and industrial vehicle dealers, asking if they'll
sell you a used 36 volt golf car charger. Some of them have upgraded golf
cars to 48 volts in recent years, and this has left such shops with stacks
(literally) of takeouts. Some have sold them off, but (at least here in the
states) now and then you'll find one that still has them sitting in the parts
warehouse. These can be modified with a bridge rectifier for charging a 72
volt battery, though you'll have to give up any automatic charge control it
has. Or, if you can find and afford two golf car chargers, you can use them
as-is and use each to charge half the pack. Still another possibility: get a
few very cheap or free 36v chargers that need repair, and see if you can make
one good one from several bad ones.
3. Buy something used on the EV trading post or Ebay. OK, the good chargers
such as Lestronics sell in the $150+ range on Ebay, but I've seen used dumb
(manual) golf car chargers go for $50 - $100.
Sometimes you get lucky and can pick up a golf car charger for free, or for
scrap value, from a local shop.
With a little hunting, you should be able to find a really good, used EV
charger. It should cost little or no more than you'd spend on 6 of your $14
baby chargers, and it will work MUCH better.
Good luck.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you very much. This truck is in fact a GM S-10E. I was kind of afraid
that I would hear just about what you have told me. As a first EV and not
knowing the condition of the electric system, I will be keeping my offer, as
you
said, to the value of a very low mileage glider. A further question-what
kind of batteries would I be likely to find in this truck, and would protracted
storage without charging be likely to ruin the battery? I feel that the truck
has been storage for quite some time because of the extrordinary low mileage.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am going to build another e-boat motor. BLDC this time. I still have
my FrankenMercII (#482 in the evalbum). But I want a new toy. I am
located in NH and am looking for a seized outboard. Generally, I cut
the end of the crankshaft off as an adapter, so a whole motor is nice.
But one without engine is OK, too. A good lower unit is a necessity. I
want 20+ hp rating so I can swing a bigger prop slowly. Any leads in
the greater New England area?
I am also thinking about selling the Frankenmerc. With a different
hull, I think it would plane at 48V. It will do 48V, 70A for quite a
while. Nameplate is 48V, 50A for the sepex motor. But a plain series or
PM controller will run it if you put a resistor in the field. Or do
poor man's field weakening.
Thanks,
Seth
P.S. private e-mail is seth.allen3 <<<<at>>> verizon.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Guys, I've been charging my USB 8VGCHC just like I'm
supposed to, and I have electrolyte dripping out of a
couple of caps here & there. Unfortunately, the worst
culprits are right above my adapter plate and motor!
Obvious solution is to swap a battery there for one
that isn't weeping. But what does it mean? They're a
year old/3K miles on them!
Thanks,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think it's missing the computer controller. My MC unit has three
boxes: Paddle, HF to HF controller, and charge controller.
Chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8005594631
May not be all you need on-board...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why is a 5 Watt zener needed?
Wouldn't a smaller one be sufficient?
stU
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim Stephenson
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 8:31 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Details of the Lee Hart Zener-Lamp regulator
This is from Don Cameron's site
(http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_BatteryManagementSystems.html ) -
thanks!
Lee Hart's Shunt Type Battery Balancer
Here is one possibility [for a shunt type battery balancer - ed]. Strangely
enough, it is currently in my own EV, since I sold its Balancer to Rick
Woodbury.
Each battery has a regulator which consists of
2 - ring terminal, with hole for 5/16" bolt, and crimp for #6 wire
2 - 6.8v 5watt zener diodes
1 - #PR2 flashlight bulb
Solder a zener diode into each ring terminal where the wire normally goes.
Solder a 6" piece of wire to the other end of the zener diode. Solder the
flashlight bulb between the free ends of these two wires. Now you have the
two zeners and flashlight bulb all wired in series.
Fill the space between the zener and ring terminal with epoxy glue.
Likewise, dunk the bulb and its wires in epoxy glue. This makes everything
waterproof and acid proof, and helps conduct heat. The zeners get their
heatsinking from the large ring terminals and battery posts they are bolted
to.
Put one of these circuits across every 12v battery. If the charging voltage
exceeds about 13.6v, the zeners begin to conduct and the lamp lights. At
about 15v, the lamp is fully lit and is bypassing about 0.5 amps.
Use a photocell to detect the light being produced. When any of these
battery regulators lights, the photocell sees it and either switches the
charger off, or to a low-current trickle charge or float voltage setting.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 3:42 AM
Subject: Re: Details of the Lee Hart Zener-Lamp regulator
> Oh come on............... please share what this is. All I have gotten
from
> the list is "Kluge"'s post and your reply Lee. Did I miss the original
post.
> What is the Lee Hart Zener lamp regulator ???
>
>
> John
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 6:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Details of the Lee Hart Zener-Lamp regulator
>
>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > Lee, I am really impressed with the elegance of the zener-lamp
> > > battery regulator (while understandfing its limitations).
> > > I'm going to make a few for a variety of uses as a first step.
> > > My question is this: Should the zeners be sunk down into the
> > > lug/heatsinks?
> >
> > Yes; at least that's how I'm doing it. I use 5 watt zeners, and they
> > will overheat if you don't heatsink them somehow. So I use "heavy duty"
> > copper ring terminals, sized to fit on a 5/16" bolt and for a #4 wire.
> > The body of the zener goes entirely inside the terminal where the #4
> > wire would normally get crimped. I solder one zener wire to the ring
> > terminal, the other to a short length of hookup wire, then pot it with
> > thermally conductive epoxy, and finally put heat shrink tubing over it.
> > The resulting assembly is waterproof and acid-proof. The ring terminal
> > (and battery terminal it is bolted to) serves as the heatsink for the
> > zener.
> >
> > > Also - are there any picture of the completed units
> > > on the net anywhere for viewing?
> >
> > Hmm... I don't know of any. Any of you guys that have them have a
> > digital camera?
> > --
> > "One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
> > shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date:
> 06/10/2005
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 9/30/05
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Seth and All,
The key to eff in outboards is as large a prop possible so
you need to look in the 35-50hp range to get an actually larger prop. Hopefully
it will have a low darg foot shape to go along withe the bigger wheel. The feet
of some outdrives by Dana have good size props with streamline shaped feet.
The boat should be as light as possible and as large a
bottom too to spread the load, lessening the power needed to get on plane and
stay at speed.
If one wants longer range at say 30 mph, a displacement
catamarran will go faster for longer distances on much less power and not beat
you to death in a chop like the planing boats do.
If nothing else, just a 18' or so sailcat with the body
replaced by a cockpit and outboard mounted on it and you will get many times
more range, fun, utility than with the planning boat. And in many ways, safer.
I have a really nice design using twin e teks !'d bet
would get 30-35 mph.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am going to build another e-boat motor. BLDC this time. I still have
my FrankenMercII (#482 in the evalbum). But I want a new toy. I am
located in NH and am looking for a seized outboard. Generally, I cut
the end of the crankshaft off as an adapter, so a whole motor is nice.
But one without engine is OK, too. A good lower unit is a necessity. I
want 20+ hp rating so I can swing a bigger prop slowly. Any leads in
the greater New England area?
I am also thinking about selling the Frankenmerc. With a different
hull, I think it would plane at 48V. It will do 48V, 70A for quite a
while. Nameplate is 48V, 50A for the sepex motor. But a plain series or
PM controller will run it if you put a resistor in the field. Or do
poor man's field weakening.
Thanks,
Seth
P.S. private e-mail is seth.allen3 <<<>> verizon.net
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:24 PM 7/10/05 -0700, Kluge wrote:
I'm thinking about building a modified bad boy charger <snip>
through a bridge rectifier to get ~ 168V DC. I've picked up a 450 watt
transformer with 14.5 and 11.3 VAC options from the secondary. <snip>
cheap timer and a photoelectric sensor on the zener lamp regulator on one
of the batteries (in series) to select 14.4, with 14.1 being the <snip>
Hi Kluge and all
From what I gather, the biggest problem with 'bad-boy' chargers is the
tendency to pull excess current early in the charge cycle, and fade too
much if not adjusted later in the cycle. In addition, 'mains' voltage will
wander a fair bit away from the nominal voltage, depending on local
conditions. It could be as much as + or - 20% relative to nominal, which
will affect charging rate significantly.
If you are using zener-lamp regulators, it would be possible to locate all
of the lamps on extended wires in one or two 'zones' that would allow one
or two photoelectric switches to see any of the lamps, so that the first
one on will trigger the reduced charging current.
If I were to do a modified bad-boy charger, my approach would be like this:
Materials:
1) AC line current transmitter (turns AC current into an instrumentation
signal of 4..20mA or 0-5/10volts DC.
2) Micro PLC/programmable relay/configurable microcontroller such as a FAB,
SPLat, Pico (Allen Bradley) controller, etc., that has analogue and digital
inputs (FAB seem to be the cheapest pre-built, pre housed).
3) Transformer as described above - but maybe a couple more taps.
4) A photoresistor/transistor that can then be used with the controller
input as a DC voltage change (minimal extra parts)
5) Relays, fuses, meters, etc.
The current transmitter is telling the controller the line current, which
the controller keeps within the operational 'window' by switching taps on
the pilot transformer.
Once the photosensor detects, the 'window' gets switched to a lower current
value and a timer starts.
Timer expires and terminates charge.
Controller also has overall charge safety time programmed in.
Controller can have several bulk charge current windows pre-programmed,
selectable with a switch for line current limits of (for example) 10, 15
and 20A.
Control would be along the lines of:
Power on
controller switches in the lowest tap.
(Current is below window low threshold)
Controller switches taps until the current is above the low threshold
If the current goes above threshold (e.g. the stove turns off so the supply
volts goes up)
Controller cycles to lower taps until the current is below the upper
threshold.
When photosensor detects
Controller switches to lower window value and starts timer
Controller switches taps down until the current is below the upper
threshold
When timer expires
Controller terminates charging
If an additional voltage monitoring relay has been used, charging can be
restarted on low pack voltage and other possibilities of control.
Mains circuit is simple enough, actual taps and phasing would depend on
pack voltage, etc:
Line
| _________
|_| current |__________
| trans. | | |
| | |_ |
|_________| @|| __|
|+ -| @||@
| | @||@_/_ Relay
| | @||@ | contacts
to @||@_/_| or
controller @||@ | SSRs/Triacs
@||@_/_|
@||@ | _________
@||@_/_| |Rectifier|
_@|| |__|AC DC+|__
| __| |__
Neutral or L2__|________| |AC DC-|
|_________|
All relays off = no charging. As relays are turned on they switch in
transformer taps, voltage to the rectifier is increased or decreased as
determined.
Robert Chew is wanting to do 'good' charging cheap, and do a thesis on such
charging. This may be a basis for building a control system to 'tame'
bad-boy charging, and maybe he could make a saleable module to do this to
in part fund his EV? Just a thought.
Hope this helps
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:33 PM 7/10/05 -0700, Bob Bath wrote:
Guys, I've been charging my USB 8VGCHC just like I'm
supposed to, and I have electrolyte dripping out of a
couple of caps here & there. Unfortunately, the worst
culprits are right above my adapter plate and motor!
Obvious solution is to swap a battery there for one
that isn't weeping. But what does it mean? They're a
year old/3K miles on them!
Hi Bob
If you have been topping up the electrolyte when they are not fully
charged, it may simply be the electrolyte 'growth' during charging is
overflowing them.
The designed space in the top of a cell seems to be so that that completely
flat, if the top of the plates are just immersed, then fully charged the
cell is at 'low electrolyte' height.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:38 PM 7/10/05 -0400, stU wrote:
Why is a 5 Watt zener needed?
Wouldn't a smaller one be sufficient?
The 5W zeners are dissapating most of the power when the regulator is
working. The lamp only sees a volt or so.
So if 1 amp is being bypassed, 6.8V is across each zener (13.6V @ 1A is
13.6W) and 1A across the globe (at [e.g.] 1.5V is 1.5W) at 15.1V across the
battery. So the lamp is only 1.5W and the zeners are each seeing 6.8W. If
you were to reduce the zener size you would also be reducing the bypass
current proportionally.
It would be possible to use smaller zeners with a lower zener current (and
a resistor instead of a lamp) and turn on a transistor and a 12V lamp, but
that'd be more complex, wouldn't it?
Hope this makes sense
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John (bigger lamp) and Stu (smaller zener): What I admire about the Hart zener
lamp
regulator is its elegance: only three active parts, each carefully selected
for a balanced unit
that does one specific thing: divert a little extra current from a 12V battery
being charged
in a series string once that battery reaches 13.6 volts. "A little" being
about 1/2 amp, max.
As understand it, the 5 watt zeners are specified because they each have to
burn off the
current up to their 6.8 volt limit once that voltage is reached; the small
flashlight bulb
consumes the excess. The zeners convert it to heat, the lamp to heat and
light. But about
1/2 amp is about all the package can handle. That's the limitation of the
design, and each of
its components. The zener lamp unit is designed to nudge the batteries into
balance. It's
not a burly unit like the battery balancer Lee designed which can balance out a
large
discrepancy between batteries in one charge. The theory behind the zener lamp
regulator
is that the stronger batteries light up their lamps a little sooner than the
weaker ones,
thereby getting a little less current (the amount that's diverted though the
regulator.) The
weaker ones get a little more juice, charge after charge. helping them to catch
up and keep
up, as long as the batteries aren't too far out of balance.
Okay, I lied - it does two things: the bonus is that the light given off by
the unit can be
used to trigger a photo sensor to trip a switch to cut the charger back to a
lower voltage.
What gives the design its elegance (to me) is its simplicity and balance. Not
to mention the
fact that it's dirt cheap and simple enough so that even I can understand it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Chapman wrote:
> Whoever it was that wanted the dragster crash photos from Speedworld, please
> let me know who you were again.
It was me.
Thanks.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There were two battery options. If it's a 97 it's likely got the lead acid pack
in it, which was really good for lead, but let it go dead and it's gone like
most others. If it's a 98 it possibly has the Ovonic NiMh batteries, which
could deffinitely be much more likely to survive the long period of sitting.
Either way if you have the skill and paitence to remove the pack and trickle
charge each battery then you should be able to at least get them charged up
enough to find out if everything works or not.
I'm not sure on the availability of the Panasonic PBA batteries, but I know
EVbones has NiMh on hand and all the right GM programmers to make the system
work with them. They're not cheap at their asking price of $7,000 for the full
upgrade, but it's an option that would give you 100 mile range.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thank you very much. This truck is in fact a GM S-10E. I was kind of afraid
that I would hear just about what you have told me. As a first EV and not
knowing the condition of the electric system, I will be keeping my offer, as
you
said, to the value of a very low mileage glider. A further question-what
kind of batteries would I be likely to find in this truck, and would protracted
storage without charging be likely to ruin the battery? I feel that the truck
has been storage for quite some time because of the extrordinary low mileage.
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's just the inlet basically. The one end goes in to the brain box where
more voodoo magic probably happens.
Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I think it's missing the computer
controller. My MC unit has three
boxes: Paddle, HF to HF controller, and charge controller.
Chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8005594631
>
> May not be all you need on-board...
>
>
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--- End Message ---
