EV Digest 4814
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: DC to DC
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: What tailshaft is appropriate for a motor RPM sensor?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Contactor microswitches
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: What tailshaft is appropriate for a motor RPM sensor?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: DC to DC
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: DC to DC
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) idea in need of comments/criticism
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) RE: idea in need of comments/criticism
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: idea in need of comments/criticism
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: What tailshaft is appropriate for a motor RPM sensor?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: idea in need of comments/criticism
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: idea in need of comments/criticism
by Travis Raybold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: idea in need of comments/criticism
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: idea in need of comments/criticism
by "Tim Medeck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: DC to DC
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: NiMH charging.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: DC to DC
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: NiMH charging.
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: NiMH charging.
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:16:58 -0700 (PDT), Dave Cover
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I too have been looking and I've seen a few products that look interesting.
>Some of these say they are built to military spec, but does this really mean
>anything? Is there a military standard I could look for that would indicate a
>better chances of survival? Or is this just sales hype?
No. Mil spec parts are generally superior but not always. The
extended temperature range of the semiconductor components is usually
the biggest difference and in some cases, radiation hardening. For
smaller parts, the production is tested and selected for mil spec
parameters. The xxx54 vs xxx74 xxxTTL parts, for example.
For other parts, there may or may not be a difference. Many modern
switchers and DC/DC converters use high temperature electrolytic caps,
for example, that aren't much different than mil spec parts.
The big difference is that in order to be a QPL part (qualified
product list), a specified amount of sampling and testing must be done
on the part. This dramatically raises the part cost, generally by a
factor of from 4 to 8 times. For instance, the last Navy contract I
worked on, a simple 25 watt 5 volt power supply cost in excess of $500
in volume quantities.
True automotive spec parts are generally even more rugged than mil
spec parts, though the same degree of testing is not done. The max
temperature for a non-space rated component is generally 125 deg C.
GM's spec for under-hood components is 140 deg C.
Despite the FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) spread by Victor and
some others, modern DC/DC converters are extremely reliable, provided
they are located in a place appropriate for the packaging. A fully
vented chassis is not suitable for under-hood use, for instance.
Citing 20 year old Todds and the like is, um, how should I say this,
not very representative of modern products.
I recommend Astrodyne and Progressive Dynamics because I have long
term good experience with both, in the case of Astrodyne, decades of
experience. I like what I see in Iota products but my experience is
lacking. Lambda is generally top-drawer but I usually buy other
brands because IMHO, the cost premium isn't worth it.
John
>
>Thanks
>
>Dave Cover
>
>Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Car stereos and radar detectors *are* built to work in cars. Not under
>the hood, of course; but they do have to put up with temperature
>extremes and condensation.
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Eric,
A spacer adapter would work, but it would set on the bearing housing that has
about 1/4 inch rise from the surface of the face of the motor and about 3
inches in diameter.
I don't know if you can drill and tap this area. If you made the spacer
adapter about 4 inches in diameter which will slip down over this 1/4 inch rise
down against the motor face, you could install set screws in the side of the
adapter which could tighten against this rise section.
This unit should look very good.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Poulsen<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: What tailshaft is appropriate for a motor RPM sensor?
Let me see if I have this straight:
The tailshaft is too long for the (cup-shaped) sensor to mount directly,
so you need a spacer bracket between the sensor and the motor housing?
Is that correct?
If so, it shouldn't be too bad; I do some aluminum casting in my garage,
and making a small adapter that you described should be pretty simple.
As long as it's possible =)
Roland Wiench wrote:
> Hello Eric,
>
> The pilot shaft on the Warp motor extends out from the motor where the
pickup cannot be mounted directly on the motor face.
>
> If you want to used this type of speed sensor, than build a aluminum
bracket that can be mounted to two of the 5/16 tapped bolt holes on the face of
the motor and span across the pilot shaft.
>
> This speed sensor is about 1-1/2 wide and the magnetic disk bolts on to the
end of this shaft with 1/4 bolt is about 1 inch in diameter and inserts into
the housing of the speed sensor.
>
> The mounting bracket if made out of aluminum should be at least 2-1/2
inches wide, so when you drill out a 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 hole in the bracket for the
magnetic disc to go thru.
>
> You could used a steel bracket which is at least 1/8 inch thick or either
made out of stainless steel, or paint the steel bracket with stainless
appliance epoxy paint made by Rust-Oleum. I also painted all my expose
aluminum parts on the Warp motor with Diamond Hard Clear coat which is design
for bare metal, normally used on Mag-wheels, and polish intake manifolds.
>
> If you have a sheet metal shop bend this bracket up for you, give very
accurate inside and outside measurements on the bending, so that the magnetic
disc that is mounted on the end of the pilot shaft does not bottom out. If it
does, than you can shim the pickup sensor with small washers.
>
> I have not install my Warp-9 motor yet, still awaiting for the adapter
assembly from Automotive Electro. Otmar of Café Electric, sent me one of the
speed sensor you shown, plus another type that has eight magnets that you glue
on a disc that either will bolt on the end of the pilot shaft, that has a 1/4
tapped bolt hole in it.
>
> I'am using the pilot shaft to run a rotating DC-DC and DC-AC inverter, so I
will have to install these magnets on the shaft that is driving the inverter
with a aluminum clamp on holder onto the drive shaft.
>
> The only thing, that I have to find out from Otmar, is how large does the
mounting circle is need for these magnets. They are mounted on the face of the
mounting disc, not on the edge, and glue on with JB Weld or equal type of glue.
>
> The small pickup sensor only needs a small L bracket for mounting and a
mounting disc to hold the magnets.
>
> The ADC type of speed sensor you are showing will work best for you, using
just a metal bracket to hold the pickup unit.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eric Poulsen<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To:
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:17 AM
> Subject: What tailshaft is appropriate for a motor RPM sensor?
>
>
> Will the speed sensor found here:
>
>
http://www.evsource.com/tls_speedsensor.php<http://www.evsource.com/tls_speedsensor.php<http://www.evsource.com/tls_speedsensor.php<http://www.evsource.com/tls_speedsensor.php>>
>
> Work with any (Warp 8") tailshaft (or no tailshaft) configuration?
>
> I really don't care about the tailshaft itself -- I was going to go w/
> the .75" because it was the cheapest, just want to make sure it's
> compatible with a speed sensor.
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've got a contactor that I'd like to use for my EV project, which
unfortunately does not include a microswitch (which I suppose is why I got
such a "good deal" on it, oh well). Is there a good/accepted way to
retrofit a microswitch in this situation?
It's an enclosed/sealed contactor, so a mechanical solution is not
possible. Maybe just a relay off the 12V coil supply might work, but it
might indicate a false positive if the coil fails (?). I thought about
trying to sense the voltage across the main contacts, but I'm not sure how
that would work in series with the controller.
Is this normally done, or am I looking at a lost cause?
--chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric Poulsen wrote:
> Let me see if I have this straight:
There are some good pics showing how it's installed here:
http://cafeelectric.com/products/pics/Zoloxpics/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:50:47 -0700, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Neon John wrote:
>> Just what are "the rigors of the automotive environment" in a
>> roadgoing EV, particularly for electronics mounted outside the
>> the engine compartment? Anyone seen a flood of say, stereo or
>> radar detector failures?
>
>Car stereos and radar detectors *are* built to work in cars. Not under
>the hood, of course; but they do have to put up with temperature
>extremes and condensation.
Not that I can tell. I've never seen a conformally coated board
inside a stereo or radar detector. No anti-vibration techniques that
I can identify. Look at the Valentine One specs, the first that I
could pull up quickly:
http://www.valentine1.com/specs/
Operating: -20°C to +70°C (-4°F to +158°F)
That's basically the industrial range. No conformal coating on my V1
so it can't be spec'd for condensing humidity atmospheres.
Pop the cover on a GM or Ford PCM if you want to see electronics truly
designed for the automotive environment, even the ones located in the
passenger compartment.
>
>Computer power supplies and similar switchers are built for an indoor
>office environment, where they never get hot, cold, wet, or dirty. They
>aren't built even as well as a cheap car radio. Take a look inside; no
>conformal coating, tiny spacing on the PC board between parts with high
>voltages between them, semiconductors only rated down to 0 deg.C, etc.
Perhaps. I have little interest in PC power supplies. The
commercial/industrial rated converters that I recommend, OTOH, ARE
designed for harsh environments. The standard old off-the-shelf
Astrodyne converters, for example, are rated -10 to 50 deg C, the
upper end being limited by full load. This is pretty typical. I
imagine that these converters and, say, the Valentine One above
actually use the same grade components and that Astrodyne is simply
more conservative, given the respective markets. The boards in the
Astrodynes I have ARE conformal coated so some amount of condensation
is probably tolerable.
>
>You don't live in Minnesota, where -20 deg.F (and lower!) happens every
>winter. Lots of car electronics die from the cold.
Thank God! that I don't live in Minnesota. Tell me again how many EVs
are on the road there when it's 20 below....
>
>Likewise, there are people living in Arizona where their car electronics
>cooks at +160 deg.F in the summer sun.
>
>And there are people in humid climates, where water routinely condenses
>even on parts *inside* the car.
Well, you've eliminated the controller and probably most of other EV
electronics. Curtis spec's the 1231C (first google hit) at -25 to 50
deg C (-13 to 122 deg F) (spec sheet here if anyone cares:
http://www.curtisinst.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=cProducts.DownloadPDF&file=1231C%2Epdf)
Curtis doesn't specify the humidity range that I could find but from
the widely reported problems with moisture, it's safe to assume that
it isn't spec'd for condensing environments.
That EVs (apparently) work just fine in the extremes of temperature
you just quoted simply illustrates the uselessness of specsmanship in
the absence of other data. I'm sure the Curtis operates outside its
specifications at -20 or 130F but it obviously still works.
>
>> Or RV converters, for that matter?
>
>I've seen many RV converters that were reduced to junk from water or
>excessive ambient temperature. I've lost a couple myself! As a class,
>these things seem to be built as cheaply as they can possibly get away
>with, and often cut it too close.
Hmm, never had the opportunity to flood an RV converter. The
Progressive Dynamics Intellipower converter is spec'd to operate from
-10 to 50 deg C. That's beginning to look like a familiar spec, eh?
IF you've damaged a modern converter from overtemperature, I'd hate to
see what the fire did to the rest of the rig!
I know you like to take broad indiscriminate smears at whole
industries, Lee, but this last claim boggles the mind. RV converters
range from the absolute junk low end Magnetek unregulated converters
to the Intellipowers and Iotas at the other end. It's just not
credible to smear the whole genre like that.
Owning versions of both PG and Iota converters, and having had both
open for inspection, I can say that these two are built as well as any
other industrial grade electronic component. No obvious flaws such as
axial lead components stood on end or electrolytic caps left dangling.
Stress beads in appropriate spots and epoxy globs securing the taller
components. The caps are appropriately rated for temperature and
voltage.
I'm not sure what the purpose of your comments were, other than to try
to start up a spat, since I have a hunch you know better. That
inexpensive DC/DC converters and chargers are doing the job just fine
for many EVers (and RVers) is pretty self-evident. Just like
"consumer grade" controllers and batteries are.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've become leery off commenting already because of how arrogant some of you
are, and I've only been here a few weeks BUT I must.
I would think UL 1236SA (marine) would be applicable. If it will do a marine
environment it will easily perform in a car.
Mark Grasser
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:50:47 -0700, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Neon John wrote:
Just what are "the rigors of the automotive environment" in a
roadgoing EV, particularly for electronics mounted outside the
the engine compartment? Anyone seen a flood of say, stereo or
radar detector failures?
Car stereos and radar detectors *are* built to work in cars. Not under
the hood, of course; but they do have to put up with temperature
extremes and condensation.
Not that I can tell. I've never seen a conformally coated board
inside a stereo or radar detector. No anti-vibration techniques that
I can identify. Look at the Valentine One specs, the first that I
could pull up quickly:
http://www.valentine1.com/specs/
Operating: -20°C to +70°C (-4°F to +158°F)
That's basically the industrial range. No conformal coating on my V1
so it can't be spec'd for condensing humidity atmospheres.
Pop the cover on a GM or Ford PCM if you want to see electronics truly
designed for the automotive environment, even the ones located in the
passenger compartment.
Computer power supplies and similar switchers are built for an indoor
office environment, where they never get hot, cold, wet, or dirty. They
aren't built even as well as a cheap car radio. Take a look inside; no
conformal coating, tiny spacing on the PC board between parts with high
voltages between them, semiconductors only rated down to 0 deg.C, etc.
Perhaps. I have little interest in PC power supplies. The
commercial/industrial rated converters that I recommend, OTOH, ARE
designed for harsh environments. The standard old off-the-shelf
Astrodyne converters, for example, are rated -10 to 50 deg C, the
upper end being limited by full load. This is pretty typical. I
imagine that these converters and, say, the Valentine One above
actually use the same grade components and that Astrodyne is simply
more conservative, given the respective markets. The boards in the
Astrodynes I have ARE conformal coated so some amount of condensation
is probably tolerable.
You don't live in Minnesota, where -20 deg.F (and lower!) happens every
winter. Lots of car electronics die from the cold.
Thank God! that I don't live in Minnesota. Tell me again how many EVs
are on the road there when it's 20 below....
Likewise, there are people living in Arizona where their car electronics
cooks at +160 deg.F in the summer sun.
And there are people in humid climates, where water routinely condenses
even on parts *inside* the car.
Well, you've eliminated the controller and probably most of other EV
electronics. Curtis spec's the 1231C (first google hit) at -25 to 50
deg C (-13 to 122 deg F) (spec sheet here if anyone cares:
http://www.curtisinst.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=cProducts.DownloadPDF&file=1231C%2Epdf)
Curtis doesn't specify the humidity range that I could find but from
the widely reported problems with moisture, it's safe to assume that
it isn't spec'd for condensing environments.
That EVs (apparently) work just fine in the extremes of temperature
you just quoted simply illustrates the uselessness of specsmanship in
the absence of other data. I'm sure the Curtis operates outside its
specifications at -20 or 130F but it obviously still works.
Or RV converters, for that matter?
I've seen many RV converters that were reduced to junk from water or
excessive ambient temperature. I've lost a couple myself! As a class,
these things seem to be built as cheaply as they can possibly get away
with, and often cut it too close.
Hmm, never had the opportunity to flood an RV converter. The
Progressive Dynamics Intellipower converter is spec'd to operate from
-10 to 50 deg C. That's beginning to look like a familiar spec, eh?
IF you've damaged a modern converter from overtemperature, I'd hate to
see what the fire did to the rest of the rig!
I know you like to take broad indiscriminate smears at whole
industries, Lee, but this last claim boggles the mind. RV converters
range from the absolute junk low end Magnetek unregulated converters
to the Intellipowers and Iotas at the other end. It's just not
credible to smear the whole genre like that.
Owning versions of both PG and Iota converters, and having had both
open for inspection, I can say that these two are built as well as any
other industrial grade electronic component. No obvious flaws such as
axial lead components stood on end or electrolytic caps left dangling.
Stress beads in appropriate spots and epoxy globs securing the taller
components. The caps are appropriately rated for temperature and
voltage.
I'm not sure what the purpose of your comments were, other than to try
to start up a spat, since I have a hunch you know better. That
inexpensive DC/DC converters and chargers are doing the job just fine
for many EVers (and RVers) is pretty self-evident. Just like
"consumer grade" controllers and batteries are.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Forgive my ignorance, but I'd like some feedback on a wild idea. What
if I combine the elegance of classic car restoration with the
environmentally conscious concept of EV conversion? Okay, so it
wouldn't really qualify as a restoration since the guts would be
completely different, but it's an enticing marriage of yesterday and
tomorrow. It then occurred to me that classic automobiles probably
weigh a lot more than the standard conversion vehicles like the Metro.
Does this issue alone make it a silly idea? Classic cars are often
less aerodynamic as well. I guess I just want to know that there are
sexy cars out there with potential to be utilized as electric vehicles.
Saving the planet is great, but people want to look good doing it.
And while people with money who want to help the environment (yeah,
there's a few) might not give up that Jaguar or Bentley, they could be
open to splurging on a battery that gets the job done. Any thoughts or
feelings?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a guy doing just that. He is 90% finished on a 1965 Chevy Malibu
converted to electric. I think his website is dirt cheapEV or something
like that.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 6:58 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: idea in need of comments/criticism
Forgive my ignorance, but I'd like some feedback on a wild idea. What
if I combine the elegance of classic car restoration with the
environmentally conscious concept of EV conversion? Okay, so it
wouldn't really qualify as a restoration since the guts would be
completely different, but it's an enticing marriage of yesterday and
tomorrow. It then occurred to me that classic automobiles probably
weigh a lot more than the standard conversion vehicles like the Metro.
Does this issue alone make it a silly idea? Classic cars are often
less aerodynamic as well. I guess I just want to know that there are
sexy cars out there with potential to be utilized as electric vehicles.
Saving the planet is great, but people want to look good doing it.
And while people with money who want to help the environment (yeah,
there's a few) might not give up that Jaguar or Bentley, they could be
open to splurging on a battery that gets the job done. Any thoughts or
feelings?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since you asked for thoughts/feelings:
Seems to me that Hollywood needs older/classic cars to
set the time frame for when something took place.
Keeping seals/gaskets on an ICE lubed for the car to
operate in a storage yard, year after year-- not easy.
On the other hand, convert it to EV, and it lasts for
eternity. (less batt. replacement, of course).
The point is, I've always felt that making an EV out
of your first-car/dream-car-- is immortalizing it.
peace,
--- "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There is a guy doing just that. He is 90% finished
> on a 1965 Chevy Malibu
> converted to electric. I think his website is dirt
> cheapEV or something
> like that.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 6:58 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: idea in need of comments/criticism
>
>
> Forgive my ignorance, but I'd like some feedback on
> a wild idea. What
> if I combine the elegance of classic car restoration
> with the
> environmentally conscious concept of EV conversion?
> Okay, so it
> wouldn't really qualify as a restoration since the
> guts would be
> completely different, but it's an enticing marriage
> of yesterday and
> tomorrow. It then occurred to me that classic
> automobiles probably
> weigh a lot more than the standard conversion
> vehicles like the Metro.
> Does this issue alone make it a silly idea? Classic
> cars are often
> less aerodynamic as well. I guess I just want to
> know that there are
> sexy cars out there with potential to be utilized as
> electric vehicles.
> Saving the planet is great, but people want to
> look good doing it.
> And while people with money who want to help the
> environment (yeah,
> there's a few) might not give up that Jaguar or
> Bentley, they could be
> open to splurging on a battery that gets the job
> done. Any thoughts or
> feelings?
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Stotts<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: What tailshaft is appropriate for a motor RPM sensor?
Eric Poulsen wrote:
> Let me see if I have this straight:
There are some good pics showing how it's installed here:
http://cafeelectric.com/products/pics/Zoloxpics/<http://cafeelectric.com/products/pics/Zoloxpics/>
This shows only a installation on a ADC motor, where the pilot shaft is flush
with the motor housing.
This installation of this type of speed sensor will have to be modified for
installing a adapter on a Warp motor that has its pilot shaft extended out.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Feel Good Cars started out with this idea, of converting and restoring
early-60s Renault Dauphines:
http://feelgoodcars.com/dauphine/dauphine_index.html
While these cars certainly aren't in the same category as you're talking
about, they are attention-getting and pretty fun to drive. (AustinEV
member Aaron Choate has let me drive his Henney Kilowatt on a couple
occasions, which is an actual production EV that was built with Dauphine
gliders back in the 60s.) The jury is still out on how successful their
efforts will be to sell Dauphines as EVs today. For the moment they've
shifted their focus to NEVs. Good luck to them there - crowded market,
almost zero demand.
--chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> Forgive my ignorance, but I'd like some feedback on a wild idea. What
> if I combine the elegance of classic car restoration with the
> environmentally conscious concept of EV conversion? Okay, so it
> wouldn't really qualify as a restoration since the guts would be
> completely different, but it's an enticing marriage of yesterday and
> tomorrow. It then occurred to me that classic automobiles probably
> weigh a lot more than the standard conversion vehicles like the Metro.
> Does this issue alone make it a silly idea? Classic cars are often
> less aerodynamic as well. I guess I just want to know that there are
> sexy cars out there with potential to be utilized as electric vehicles.
> Saving the planet is great, but people want to look good doing it.
> And while people with money who want to help the environment (yeah,
> there's a few) might not give up that Jaguar or Bentley, they could be
> open to splurging on a battery that gets the job done. Any thoughts or
> feelings?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i certainly wanted to have a nice looking convertible for an electric
car. i managed to find an electric fiat sypder convertible in town, and
bought and fixed it up. it may not be a bentley or jag, but it's pretty
sharp looking.
personally i see a lot of benefits in starting from a car you would
enjoy and that would get looks even as a gas powered car. you will be
spedning a lot of time working on this car, and a lot of money, might as
well start with a nice one!
i might get marginally better range or efficiency with a different car,
but the enjoyment factor makes it more than worth it.
good luck, hope you convert an awesome jag, that would be sweet! ;)
--travis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but I'd like some feedback on a wild idea. What
if I combine the elegance of classic car restoration with the
environmentally conscious concept of EV conversion? Okay, so it
wouldn't really qualify as a restoration since the guts would be
completely different, but it's an enticing marriage of yesterday and
tomorrow. It then occurred to me that classic automobiles probably
weigh a lot more than the standard conversion vehicles like the
Metro. Does this issue alone make it a silly idea? Classic cars are
often less aerodynamic as well. I guess I just want to know that
there are sexy cars out there with potential to be utilized as
electric vehicles. Saving the planet is great, but people want to
look good doing it. And while people with money who want to help the
environment (yeah, there's a few) might not give up that Jaguar or
Bentley, they could be open to splurging on a battery that gets the
job done. Any thoughts or feelings?
.
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some are not as heavy as you might think. The 65 Mustang was only
around 2500 lbs. You can get the whole body in fiberglass and be even
lighter.
http://www.factoryfive.com has Cobra replicas that are around 2200
lbs.
Early Porsche 912 and 911 cars were 2000 to 2500 lbs.
It's fun to poke around <http://www.usbody.com> and see the
fiberglass bodies for classic cars.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Forgive my ignorance, but I'd like some feedback on a wild idea.
> What
> if I combine the elegance of classic car restoration with the
> environmentally conscious concept of EV conversion? Okay, so it
> wouldn't really qualify as a restoration since the guts would be
> completely different, but it's an enticing marriage of yesterday
> and
> tomorrow. It then occurred to me that classic automobiles probably
> weigh a lot more than the standard conversion vehicles like the
> Metro.
> Does this issue alone make it a silly idea? Classic cars are often
> less aerodynamic as well. I guess I just want to know that there
> are
> sexy cars out there with potential to be utilized as electric
> vehicles.
> Saving the planet is great, but people want to look good doing
> it.
> And while people with money who want to help the environment (yeah,
> there's a few) might not give up that Jaguar or Bentley, they could
> be
> open to splurging on a battery that gets the job done. Any
> thoughts or
> feelings?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Feel Good Cars started out with this idea, of converting and restoring
early-60s Renault Dauphines:
I restored a Henney Kilowatt for a guy, and after we were done, he gave me 2
Dauphine parts cars.
Right now, the transaxle is in my shop being mated to a Prestolite motor.
Lots of work restoring these rusty old cars, but I like the unibody
construction because it is really lightweight (900 pound glider) and very
stiff.
I noticed the pair of electric Dauphines on Ebay sold for $5500.00. They
weren't badged as Henneys, but the pictures looked identical to the one we
restored. Somebody got a good deal there.
If you don't mind losing the safety features and creature comforts of a
newer vehicle, the old stuff is nice. They tend to be lighter and certainly
simpler.
Good luck finding and restoring/converting your dream classic!
Tim Medeck
Electric 1981 Freeway
Converted Ariens garden tractor
Electric pontoon boat
Electric Dauphine (Spring 2006)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
>
> I too have been looking and I've seen a few products that look interesting.
> Some of these say they are built to military spec, but does this really mean
> anything? Is there a military standard I could look for that would indicate a
> better chances of survival? Or is this just sales hype?
There are military specs for anything, from aerospace to junk-grade. A
power supply that meets a military spec for an office environment isn't
of much use in a car. So, you have to know WHAT spec it meets!
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor
I am interested in 4 of these batteries for my Motorcycle. I believe
that these batteries will meet the system requirements of:
Peak current 325A
Peak regen current 200A (adjustible)
I have 3 questions.
Can cells from these batteries be removed. I'm not sure my sevcon 4
quadrant 48V controller can handle 52 V nominal. (Programming may not allow)
Can these be charged with a constant current source (<.1C) using a
temperature cutoff of around 50C to prevent overcharge or is it best to use the
-dV.
During discharge can I expect Temp rise to exceed safety limit if
average discharge is close to 1C.
Rick Miller
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul,
Sure, go to:
http://www.lambdapower.com/products/finder.htm
select: "single output enclosed"
The models that work are HKA, SWS, JWS/T, RWS, HWS
obviously you want the one that fits your need and are
designed for dc input. I dont suggest buying them new
there are thousands of these around the country in
surplus stores.
There are spec sheets and performance data such as:
MTBF (mean time between failures) temperature limits
and anything else some people want to use to convince
themselves that spending $359 for one DC to DC
converter (not a "power supply") is much smarter than
buying something used for $10. At $20 I can buy 17 of
them befor spending as much as they did on one.
For the rest of us that will settle for something
"cheap" check out ebay numbers: 7510164082 this is
5v but look at the buy it now price. 7527809865 and
7532649940. Always look at the input data printed on
the unit, if it will accept dc in it will say so.
These are in ebay stores or search for lambda dc power
supplies. Every body else that thinks this is all a
bunch of #%&*$, ignore this message/subject and leave
these for the rest of us. Also, I won't let the
"lambda power supplies" in my cars know they should
fail, I guess they just dont know better.
Jimmy Argon
--- "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Oct 11, 2005, at 11:23 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > Di you have a link to the model you use?
> >
> > Victor
> >>
> >> From: Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Date: 2005/10/11 Tue PM 10:04:12 PDT
> >> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >> Subject: RE: DC to DC
> >>
> >> It is a power supply and/or a dc to dc converter.
> I
> >> have a model LUS 10 A 15 and it can take an input
> from
> >> 35 to 135 volt, 47 to 447hz ac OR 35 to 135 volt
> dc.
> >>
>
> This appears (from information on the Lambda web
> site) to be a 1985 to
> 1992 model power supply. In 1992 it listed for $147
> each, less for
> higher volume.
>
> Paul
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What is you all's opinion?
Charging them might be harder than we think. I've been working with NiMH
batteries (albeit 6.5ah Prismatics), BQ2004 class monitor chips, NFET
based pulse chargers, and a lot of wire.
Problem is the dV/dt gets really lost in long strings of batteries (>18
cells), and if you want to do it right you really need a temp sensor in
each battery pack. Even an Ah counter won't pick up the standby losses.
NiMH also doesn't seem to like trickle charge things that NiCD batteries
can take (I'm assuming these are sintered plate batteries and *not*
flooded NiMH, correct?)
Missing the signs has resulted in two ruptured prismatics, and this is
at a charge rate of 7.0 amps (basically C). Things look a little better
at C/2 though.
Didn't the NiMH EV1's have serious battery heating problems? To the
point they ran them with the AC on during charge? By the same token, did
they not use the same old MagneCharger to charge them? Or did they use a
different control module (the EV200 can do multiple stage CV/CC charging
with time/amount cutover, however it can't count AH, and it can't do
more than 10 temp sensors for dT monitoring). Maybe they just did dT.
On the positive side one could build a BQ2004 monitor circuit for each
battery, then use a Stamp to query the BQ's and control a PFC. That
would solve the dV/dt, dT/dt, and time runaway functions with reasonable
granularity.
Chris
(yes, a pack of 25 of these would make my Prizm sing. Well, till they
overheated...)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10/12/05, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As SAFT, I should really qualify people first making sure they can
> charge correctly. A BMS per cell is not needed (though wouldn't hurt!)
> at least in OEM solution it is not used, but the thermal management is
> pretty strict. As NiCds, NiMH don't like to be hot, and should not be
> used at above ~40'C. Active cooling is essential, especially for hot
Yeah in Arizona I guess it's going to need really active cooling, not
just air circulation. Like carry around an ice chest and slowly
circulate water through the pack at an appropriate speed to maintain a
low-enough temperature, without completely refrigerating the
batteries. Or else waste some power continuously to run a small
refrigeration system, like one from a surplus water fountain or an
aquarium cooler or something. Or maybe use evaporative cooling, like
a cooling tower does.
Is it OK for the batteries to sit around at higher temperatures when
they're not being used? Is there a current threshold which would
permit using a little battery power in order to cool down the
batteries, without damaging them by doing that?
> climates. Talk to any S10 users how their battery containers are built
> and cooling is implemented.
>
> And, no, chargers are not part of the package and I'm thinking of
> making it that way - BRUSA chargers loaded with correct profiles
> will be the match. I'll test it and will see if I should suggest
> having correct charging as a rule. Perhaps discounting the batteries
> as long as the preprogrammed charger is bought with them could be wise
> incentive.
>
> What is you all's opinion?
Are they being sold with a warranty or as-is? If there is no warranty
then there is no reason not to encourage alternate charging solutions
to be developed.
Having a discount for a package deal including a charger is a good idea though.
> Proper charging consists of dV/dt detection and tracking Ah + the temp,
> so, sorry simple timed CC/CV thing won't cut it (like PFC charger as is,
> without external brains). Realize, the battery is not for everyone,
> and you will be disappointed unless know what you're doing and what to
> expect. I would strongly discourage newbies from experimentation
> despite potential rewards.
--- End Message ---
