EV Digest 4815
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: idea in need of comments/criticism
by Ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: DC to DC
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: NiMH charging.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Plenty of cheap gliders?
by billb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Bracket Racing White Zombie to a 12.151 @ 106.25 mph World Record!
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: idea in need of comments/criticism
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: DC to DC
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Ovonic NiMH battery is available
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: DC to DC
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Plenty of cheap gliders?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: DC to DC **PLEASE CLOSE THREAD**
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Charging off peak vs Battery life
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Plenty of cheap gliders?
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Plenty of cheap gliders?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Plenty of cheap gliders?
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) idea in need of comments/criticism
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Plenty of cheap gliders?
by "Tim Medeck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) individual battery monitor (data logger)
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Challenging Drive, feeling better
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Challenging Drive, improvement
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: individual battery monitor (data logger)
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: FW: DC to DC **PLEASE CLOSE THREAD**
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Challenging Drive, feeling better
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Plenty of cheap gliders?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Challenging Drive, improvement
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) rotary engine for generator
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: individual battery monitor (data logger)
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: individual battery monitor (data logger)
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This should qualify
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/384.html
on 10/12/05 6:58 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Forgive my ignorance, but I'd like some feedback on a wild idea. What
> if I combine the elegance of classic car restoration with the
> environmentally conscious concept of EV conversion? Okay, so it
> wouldn't really qualify as a restoration since the guts would be
> completely different, but it's an enticing marriage of yesterday and
> tomorrow. It then occurred to me that classic automobiles probably
> weigh a lot more than the standard conversion vehicles like the Metro.
> Does this issue alone make it a silly idea? Classic cars are often
> less aerodynamic as well. I guess I just want to know that there are
> sexy cars out there with potential to be utilized as electric vehicles.
> Saving the planet is great, but people want to look good doing it.
> And while people with money who want to help the environment (yeah,
> there's a few) might not give up that Jaguar or Bentley, they could be
> open to splurging on a battery that gets the job done. Any thoughts or
> feelings?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all:
I tried hard to bite my tongue .. but I failed.
I started the threat by asking for advice for a DC-to-DC converter since I
am not satisfied with the unit I have. I didn't ask for the cheapest - I
was honestly interested in the 'right' one. Yes, I checked the usual
'Online Stores', but I just can't live with 10 A @ 12 V. So - I was very
happy when Victor pointed me at the versions he is selling. And I don't
mind paying good bucks for good products. I just want my truck to be at
least as good as it's ICE counterpart, including brakes, 12 V system and
everything else.
Now look at what is going on. Everybody is at everybody's throat. Based on
the little experience I have with that list, I feel like in kindergarden.
It seems to be a problem for some to understand, that some people just
want different 'flavors' of technology. I for my part don't believe in
non-insolated chargers, stuffing heater elements into the car ducting or
cheapo ebay stuff to kind of 'rigg' it.
Yes, Victors stuff is (as far as I know) more expensive. So what? Some
like it, um, as cheap as possible, others are willing to pay more. Nobody
owns the absolute truth and not all EV'ers are alike.
Michaela
> Paul,
> Sure, go to:
> http://www.lambdapower.com/products/finder.htm
> select: "single output enclosed"
> The models that work are HKA, SWS, JWS/T, RWS, HWS
> obviously you want the one that fits your need and are
> designed for dc input. I dont suggest buying them new
> there are thousands of these around the country in
> surplus stores.
> There are spec sheets and performance data such as:
> MTBF (mean time between failures) temperature limits
> and anything else some people want to use to convince
> themselves that spending $359 for one DC to DC
> converter (not a "power supply") is much smarter than
> buying something used for $10. At $20 I can buy 17 of
> them befor spending as much as they did on one.
>
> For the rest of us that will settle for something
> "cheap" check out ebay numbers: 7510164082 this is
> 5v but look at the buy it now price. 7527809865 and
> 7532649940. Always look at the input data printed on
> the unit, if it will accept dc in it will say so.
> These are in ebay stores or search for lambda dc power
> supplies. Every body else that thinks this is all a
> bunch of #%&*$, ignore this message/subject and leave
> these for the rest of us. Also, I won't let the
> "lambda power supplies" in my cars know they should
> fail, I guess they just dont know better.
> Jimmy Argon
> --- "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2005, at 11:23 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Di you have a link to the model you use?
>> >
>> > Victor
>> >>
>> >> From: Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> Date: 2005/10/11 Tue PM 10:04:12 PDT
>> >> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>> >> Subject: RE: DC to DC
>> >>
>> >> It is a power supply and/or a dc to dc converter.
>> I
>> >> have a model LUS 10 A 15 and it can take an input
>> from
>> >> 35 to 135 volt, 47 to 447hz ac OR 35 to 135 volt
>> dc.
>> >>
>>
>> This appears (from information on the Lambda web
>> site) to be a 1985 to
>> 1992 model power supply. In 1992 it listed for $147
>> each, less for
>> higher volume.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shawn Rutledge wrote:
Is it OK for the batteries to sit around at higher temperatures when
they're not being used? Is there a current threshold which would
permit using a little battery power in order to cool down the
batteries, without damaging them by doing that?
The self-discharge is high at elevated temperatures.
Are they being sold with a warranty or as-is?
To the people First, they won't be sold to anybody.
Second, no warranty because of experiments for charging
are anticipated.
Having a discount for a package deal including a charger is a good idea though.
Idea may be good but does not guarantee desired outcome.
So there is no way to enforce proper charge, and especially
overdischarge; thus providing warranty just opens doors to
abuse (knowing that new pack can be claimed at any time).
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks,
I just heard from some friends in N.O. after Katrina They were lucky
their house is intact , one person was in
the car repair business, unfortunately for him he is now unemployed due
to the fact most of the vehicles are considered un-repairable and are
expected to be scrapped. I was wondering how useful the newer ones with
straight bodies would be as EV gliders ? Of course you would toss all
the i.c.e. stuff , and the differential and tranny would need some work
but may turn out to be serviceable. The body, brakes and suspension
would certainly be useable . Some of the 12 volt system may be beyond
hope, silt in the switches, motors, instruments and especially where the
battery voltage was present under water. I am not sure if the
upholstery could ever be cleaned and deodorized? Still the new models
are tempting if they would make good cheap conversions, with work. These
vehicles could be a LOT newer and cheaper than those we usually can
afford for conversions.
Does any one on the list have any experience with the perils of flooded
cars?
Bill Brinsmead in still dry Reno Nevada.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just want to thank you, John and Tim, for your efforts and your accounts
of your nights at the strip. I get a real thrill reading them and I am
always showing the videos of your races to my coworkers.
Good luck this weekend!
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Technically anything could be converted. I have to agree with you, muscle cars
are just down right bad looking. If you were going to do a whole restoration
conversion it would work even better. When everything is torn down you could
design and integrate some of the systems and paint it all at once. For example,
with battery racks you could have them welded to the frame, gring the welds off
if they're not pretty and then paint it all nice and the same. I wouldn't
expect a huge range, but I'd rather go for a higher performance. At the very
least a 9" motor with 200ish volts and a 1000 amp Zilla. Or if you could wing
it, maybe even higher. Orbital batteries are almost implied here.
I'm guessing youd be spending a pretty penny to restore a classic car anyways,
so if your going to do it go all out. As far as cars perhaps a Mustang or
Camaro. I've seen this car personally, locally.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/273.html
It's not a really old car, but it's really a pretty sweet ride.
Also Wilde Evolutions 29 Hot Rod: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/046.html
I think there is a Shelby Cobra kit car conversion on eBay at the moment as
well, but it's not a very clean or nice conversion.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but I'd like some feedback on a wild idea. What
if I combine the elegance of classic car restoration with the
environmentally conscious concept of EV conversion? Okay, so it
wouldn't really qualify as a restoration since the guts would be
completely different, but it's an enticing marriage of yesterday and
tomorrow. It then occurred to me that classic automobiles probably
weigh a lot more than the standard conversion vehicles like the Metro.
Does this issue alone make it a silly idea? Classic cars are often
less aerodynamic as well. I guess I just want to know that there are
sexy cars out there with potential to be utilized as electric vehicles.
Saving the planet is great, but people want to look good doing it.
And while people with money who want to help the environment (yeah,
there's a few) might not give up that Jaguar or Bentley, they could be
open to splurging on a battery that gets the job done. Any thoughts or
feelings?
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:36:07 -0500 (CDT), "Michaela Merz"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Hello all:
>
>I tried hard to bite my tongue .. but I failed.
>
>I started the threat by asking for advice for a DC-to-DC converter since I
>am not satisfied with the unit I have. I didn't ask for the cheapest - I
>was honestly interested in the 'right' one. Yes, I checked the usual
>'Online Stores', but I just can't live with 10 A @ 12 V. So - I was very
>happy when Victor pointed me at the versions he is selling. And I don't
>mind paying good bucks for good products. I just want my truck to be at
>least as good as it's ICE counterpart, including brakes, 12 V system and
>everything else.
OK, that's fine. BTW, since you're adding significant weight to your
truck, tell us what you're doing to improve the brakes....
>
>Now look at what is going on. Everybody is at everybody's throat. Based on
>the little experience I have with that list, I feel like in kindergarden.
>It seems to be a problem for some to understand, that some people just
>want different 'flavors' of technology. I for my part don't believe in
>non-insolated chargers, stuffing heater elements into the car ducting or
>cheapo ebay stuff to kind of 'rigg' it.
>
>Yes, Victors stuff is (as far as I know) more expensive. So what? Some
>like it, um, as cheap as possible, others are willing to pay more. Nobody
>owns the absolute truth and not all EV'ers are alike.
I suppose the first item is to attempt to disabuse you of the
sophomoric Madison Avenue-generated idea of there always being the one
True Best Product and the corollary that more money buys "better".
That idea is rampant, of course, and is what sells Perrier, BMWs and
Mont Blanc pens, just to pick a few out of thin air.
Regarding technology, it simply doesn't work that way. One develops a
specification and then hopefully picks the product that most closely
fits that spec. You haven't done that, as evidenced by your having to
ask in the first place, yet you criticize others' (including myself)
experience-based advice, apparently only because our recommendations
are "cheaper". There is a difference between "cheap" and
"inexpensive".
As an engineer who has spent most of his life working in economically
competitive environments where cost DOES matter, I look for the best
VALUE and not just the cheapest. That is, the most of whatever
features I value for the least cost. Economics 101.
I should take a moment to point out to you that when I answer your
question, I'm not just answering it for you. Frankly, I wouldn't
waste my time. I answer publicly on this list so that others may gain
the benefit of my advice if they so choose to take it. While YOU may
be willing to waste your money on the ephemeral "best" product, most
other people aren't. Most folks look for best value.
In the case of DC/DC converters, if I were going for cheapest, there
is no question that I'd recommend ChiCom-made PC power supplies. For
as little as $20, it doesn't get much cheaper than that. I've seen
enough desktop quality PCs deployed in industrial settings to know
that the power supplies would probably work OK. But I'm not
interested in cheapest. I'm interested in the product that will do
the job and do it reliably for the least cost. In this instance, any
of the commercial/industrial quality converters made by the name brand
outfits that have been mentioned in this thread will work just fine.
If you still think that the most dollars buys the "best", I suggest
you check with Validyne, Acopan or the mil spec division of Lambda,
just to name a few. All of these folks have converters on the QPL and
will gladly relieve you of hundreds to thousands of dollars for a
converter. If you want to buy still more "quality", ask for
space-qualified components.
I agree with you on one thing. It is quite unfortunate that the
social dynamics are such as they are on this list. I don't like it
either but this is probably one of the better EV lists as far as that
goes. Just a fact of life that EVs tend to attract some strange
characters. Couple that with too many people trying to slice up the
almost nonexistent EV component market and it's like having a school
of sharks in the wading pool - there will be blood letting from time
to time. Just the way it is.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where are you located and where are the batteries located?
What is the schedule looking like for getting some?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 12 Oct 2005 at 17:36, Michaela Merz wrote:
> Now look at what is going on. Everybody is at everybody's throat.
This isn't by any means the worst it's been. Actually, only a few are
scrapping. Most of us are standing around watching the bulging veins with
vague amusement. It's remarkable what some people will argue over. ;-)
> Based on the little experience I have with that list, I feel like
> in kindergarden. It seems to be a problem for some to understand,
> that some people just want different 'flavors' of technology.
Regrettably we do have a range of maturity here. There's a very small
number of members, one in particular, who generate the majority of the
flames. Most members are thoughtful, well socialized adults.
Really, this list is one of the better and more respectful forums on the
internet. Most remaining members have learned to ignore the flame bait.
(OTOH, one reason that our remaining members are relatively thick-skinned is
that some of the thinner-skinned types have left the list.)
> Some like it, um, as cheap as possible, others are willing to pay
> more. Nobody owns the absolute truth and not all EV'ers are alike.
Well said! This is why, in the US ICE world, you can choose anything from a
Kia Rio to a Mercedes SL65. Either one will get you to work in the morning;
which one you choose is a complex decision that takes many factors into
account.
Would that we had such a wide range of choices in production EVs! But where
we DO get to make choices - charger, DC:DC, drive system, battery for our
conversions - there are solid facts and useful information to be found here
on the EV list. Once you discard the arrogance and cynicism, what remains
is plenty of good solid information.
I hope you're not blaming yourself for the antisocial behavior of others.
Your question was a good and valid one, and addressing such questions is the
real purpose of this list. I'm glad the list worked for you, and you found
a suitable DC:DC. Carry on!
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
At 09:51 PM 12/10/05 -0700, Bill Brinsmead wrote:
Hi Folks,
I just heard from some friends in N.O. after Katrina <snip>
Does any one on the list have any experience with the perils of flooded
cars?
Hi Bill - and all
A friend had a vehicle that had been backed into a freshwater lake at a
boat ramp alongside the dam wall - and went too far. The car went over 100
feet under water and was recovered a couple of days later (fortunately the
driver baled out in time). Mechanically it was able to be cleaned up and
dried out - but just about everything electrical, including the entire
wiring system, had to be replaced.
That was in fresh water. Another friend had a wave splash up over the
tailgate of his ute (pickup) when retrieving a boat from the salt water. It
was a couple of days before he could properly hose it out with fresh water
and within a year all the lower panels had bad rust 'cancer'. Three years
later there were no sill panels left and the lower parts of the structural
members were badly affected.
So on this sample of two, if the car was in fresh water - probably a good
glider. If in salt water, forget it.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 13 Oct 2005 at 3:18, Neon John wrote:
> I suppose the first item is to attempt to disabuse you of the
> sophomoric Madison Avenue-generated idea of there always being the one
> True Best Product and the corollary that more money buys "better".
No, that is not the first item nor the last. There is no need for you to
disabuse anyone of anything. Your views on this matter are not relevant.
That is not the purpose of this list.
The thread's originator has declared his problem solved. It's time to close
this thread. Let it go, please. If you can't, then please leave the list.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So I just found out my house is on the time of use electricity plan (which is
actually costing us more money, but that's beside the point). So now I'm all
about using that cheap off peak power, which is 4.64 cents a KWH vs 17.52 cents
on peak. So the question is does letting wet lead cells sitting around
partially charged worth it vs saving a few dimes to charge?
Right now it's working out well because off peak goes until 1PM, and I'm only
using maybe 20 - 25% and get home abound 12:30 and take a 30 minute sip, which
brings me to within a few percent of full and charge the rest after 9PM. I know
this isn't hurting anything, but in November it goes to a more conventional
peak hours schedule where I'd basically have to charge at night, so say I leave
the car sitting all afternoon at half charge, will this make any significant
difference in battery life?
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, maybe you could get lucky enough to find a flood damaged Insight, no rust
worries there, though fixing the wiring harness might be a big issue. I guess
you could just ditch it all, start from scratch, rip out the whole drive train
and have some fun.
So on this sample of two, if the car was in fresh water - probably a good
glider. If in salt water, forget it.
Regards
James
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
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--- Begin Message ---
Unfortunately there will be no differenciation between
Huricane driven salt water- to Levy water which caused
flooding or the bracken water from the Sewers that
backed up, which could lead to all sorts of health
issues from the Mold and bacteria. And they will have
all been in the flushed state for weeks not days. If
it were River flooded you could take a chance but with
Salt and Sewer possiblities I personally would stay
away.
Just my 2 cents worth.
--- Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hmm, maybe you could get lucky enough to find a
> flood damaged Insight, no rust worries there, though
> fixing the wiring harness might be a big issue. I
> guess you could just ditch it all, start from
> scratch, rip out the whole drive train and have some
> fun.
>
>
>
> So on this sample of two, if the car was in fresh
> water - probably a good
> glider. If in salt water, forget it.
>
> Regards
>
> James
>
>
>
>
> Later,
> Ricky
> 02 Red Insight #559
> 92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
> __________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
billb writes:
>
> Does any one on the list have any experience with the perils of flooded
> cars?
Several years ago my day bought a Cadillac that had been in a flood.
It looked clean and the engine/tranny worked well, but the car had
lots of odd, intermittent problems with the electrical system, some
of which the repair shop(s) were unable to fix. The car also had lots
of little squeaks and rattles. He finally sold it after getting one
too many steep repair bills.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like a great idea, I was dreaming about this myself.
"clean classics"
electric muscle cars from the 60's and 70's
Since part of a hotrod restore included suspension work and it would
need beefing up anyway, people would be willing to pay for it.
No messing with onboard systems that are integrated with the PCM, no
fancy transmissions. plenty of room under hood.
I know where there is a rust free mustang and charger in a barn!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been buying and rebuilding insurance salvage cars and trucks for 28
years on and off, so have seen a lot of flood cars. Even if the unreachable
nooks and crannies aren't filled with silt and unmentionables, the car is
going to be a pain in the butt forever. A few guys that I know have tryed
them over the years, here's a partial list of their problems- electrical (of
course) connections corrode over a period of time, relays go bad, switches
have gunk in them, etc. - HVAC ducts hold silt and stuff, so remain smelly
(and probably not safe), vacuum switches and doors develop problems - rack
and pinion problems - brake problems - bearing problems - rust problems. And
these were all fresh water floods. A car that has been submerged in salt
water will look OK for a while, but have you seen that Tribeca commercial?
That's a salt water flood car in a couple of years.
Tim Medeck
From: billb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Plenty of cheap gliders?
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:51:24 -0700
Hi Folks, I just heard from some friends in N.O. after Katrina They were
lucky their house is intact , one person was in
the car repair business, unfortunately for him he is now unemployed due to
the fact most of the vehicles are considered un-repairable and are expected
to be scrapped. I was wondering how useful the newer ones with straight
bodies would be as EV gliders ? Of course you would toss all the i.c.e.
stuff , and the differential and tranny would need some work but may turn
out to be serviceable. The body, brakes and suspension would certainly be
useable . Some of the 12 volt system may be beyond hope, silt in the
switches, motors, instruments and especially where the battery voltage was
present under water. I am not sure if the upholstery could ever be cleaned
and deodorized? Still the new models are tempting if they would make good
cheap conversions, with work. These vehicles could be a LOT newer and
cheaper than those we usually can afford for conversions.
Does any one on the list have any experience with the perils of flooded
cars?
Bill Brinsmead in still dry Reno Nevada.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Guys and Gals,
This has been on my mind for a while. I would like to, when gathering
information for my real life drive test of my almost completed vehicle, the
individual battery voltages.
I would like to somehow, connect each battery to a data logger, and write a
visual basic program to read off values, etc, data log, etc etc.
I have no idea on how to make one, and I know its possible using pretty
limited amount of funds. Commercial ones are pretty dear and if I can make
one, well that'll be a bonus.
It may be a lot of work, it may not be. I am not sure. But I don't mind
giving it a try, or I could ask the uni for funds to buy me one. But then
they have to take it back after the thesis is over.
Any suggestions, circuit diagrams etc..
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, I set the toe in last night to 1/8" as recommended in the manual, it
was straight on so I think that helped. Also I'm moving the 3ea US8VGC's
out of the trunk and put them on the passenger floor as recommended. I'm
not sure where to get an anti-sway bar as the one's from JC Whitney are
vehicle specific.
I'm not sure how to add positive castor but I could add some camber by
shiming the lower brake backing plate bolts to get the wheels to tilt
outward at the bottom more (now their slightly tilted inward due to the
light front end.
Still need to get doors next, probably jeep type although I was told Lexan
is good.
I was told to get the wheels balanced but another mechanic said it doesn't
matter up to 45mph. I put 73' Chevy Vega 13" rims/wheels on. Does wheel
spin balancing matter at low speed?
Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 1:26 AM
Subject: Re: Challenging Drive
> In a message dated 10/11/2005 4:46:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >>> I took the Bombardier out for a drive last night and it seamed very
> unstable even at 25mph, like pushing a golf cart up to that speed. It
seamed
> like any movement on the steering wheel at speed and it might flip. I
don't know
> how to make a more stable front end and was curious what might be done.
>>>>
>
> Can you tweak the front end to add more positive castor?
> That would entail tilting the top of the spindle toward the back of the
car.
> I've done it before with tapered shims and it made the cart more
manageable.
> Not great, but certainly better.
> Hope this helps,
> Ben
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I did put on larger tires, 13" or 22"diam Vega wheels and took off the
golf cart fat tires 19" diameter (10" trailer tires). I may try more toe as
the 99' Bombardier shop manual says 1/8" but the 2000' manual says 1/8 -
3/4". I think the 3/4" may be a typo and 1/4" might be more realistic, I
dunno.
Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: Challenging Drive
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:50:43 -0400, "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >On 12 Oct 2005 at 2:39, Neon John wrote:
> >
> >> I'd try one inch of toe to start out.
> >
> >That sounds like a lot. Most EVs are set for zero toe, or close to it,
to
> >reduce rolling resistance.
>
> Maybe, but since his car is handling like it's rolling on ball
> bearings, trying more toe than "normal" is the way to eliminate that
> as a problem. He can back down until the car gets squirrely. I think
> I recall him having said that he'd fitted 14" wheels and tires. If
> not, then I'd scale back the one inch proportionally.
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:24 AM 10/13/2005, Robert Chew wrote:
I would like to somehow, connect each battery to a data logger, and write a
visual basic program to read off values, etc, data log, etc etc.
There are some of us already doing things like that.
I have a LiIon BMS that lets you log both voltage and temp. I'm
pretty sure that Victors BMS units will do the same.
My Battery Monitor units could be used to log voltage, I'm just
currently using the (possible) serial output lines for other
things. (i.e. just a software change is needed.)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
It appears you have an issue with "everything Neon John posts". I understand
where you get that from because in the past, yes John has ignited some fires
with his refreshing "lack of political correctness". However, in the post you
are referring to he has shown considerable restraint and I did not detect any
flame-bait. He also, as usual, supported his opinions with factual examples.
I feel that this time it is you who owe John an apology for implying that he
wouldn't let the thread go and asking him to leave the list.
Please don't keep harrasing him to leave the list because of his posting of
opinions, which some of us agree with him on, are too chicken-shit to post
ourselves for fear of being asked to leave.
I personally can't decide who has the most informative posts, Lee or John.
True, they have different styles, but I for one welcome both of their inputs.
They are both highly knowledgeable in this field. Their "error checking" of
each other, I feel, is welcomed.
I don't think John will leave. But, I don't think he should be constantly
harrassed about it either.
I will not respond publicly to this thread again.
Stay Charged!
Hump
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 4:10 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: DC to DC **PLEASE CLOSE THREAD**
On 13 Oct 2005 at 3:18, Neon John wrote:
> I suppose the first item is to attempt to disabuse you of the
> sophomoric Madison Avenue-generated idea of there always being the one
> True Best Product and the corollary that more money buys "better".
No, that is not the first item nor the last. There is no need for you to
disabuse anyone of anything. Your views on this matter are not relevant.
That is not the purpose of this list.
The thread's originator has declared his problem solved. It's time to close
this thread. Let it go, please. If you can't, then please leave the list.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just to make sure you are not skippinng the easy things -- what tire
pressures are you running? You might try high pressure in the rears
and a bit lower in front to see if that helps. Also, if you jack up
so a wheel is off the ground, is everything tight? A wheel wobbling
can cause alot of instability.
For street speeds I'd be surprised if camber made any detectable
difference, unless it was way off.
--- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks, I set the toe in last night to 1/8" as recommended in the
> manual, it
> was straight on so I think that helped. Also I'm moving the 3ea
> US8VGC's
> out of the trunk and put them on the passenger floor as
> recommended. I'm
> not sure where to get an anti-sway bar as the one's from JC Whitney
> are
> vehicle specific.
>
> I'm not sure how to add positive castor but I could add some camber
> by
> shiming the lower brake backing plate bolts to get the wheels to
> tilt
> outward at the bottom more (now their slightly tilted inward due to
> the
> light front end.
> ...
__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:12:31 -0700 (PDT), Ricky Suiter
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>So on this sample of two, if the car was in fresh water - probably a good
>glider. If in salt water, forget it.
I'd go a step farther and just say forget it period.
This town I live in is known as the odometer rollback capital of the
world. When "60 Minutes" isn't in town focusing on the next fraud,
this town is also one of the largest used car processing centers in
the country. I consult to several operators on electrical problems
that their normal mechanics can't solve, usually having to do with the
engine management systems.
Every time there is a natural disaster somewhere on the east coast, a
flood of flood damaged cars pass through here. I've had the dubious
opportunity to work on many of 'em. Based on that experience, I'd not
touch with a 10 ft pole anything that had been flooded!
There is the obvious problem of water and crud getting into everything
electrical. But that isn't the worst part. The worst damage stems
from the electrical system being powered by the battery at the time of
flooding. Even with the ignition off, there is power on everything
from the PCM to the radio. All flood water is highly conductive, salt
water only a little more so.
The result is that connectors, wires, circuit board traces and other
internal components are electrolyzed away. The electrolysis of salt
water is even worse, liberating chlorine and sodium hydroxide, causing
even more corrosion.
I've seen the internals of nominally waterproof connectors literally
disappeared. I've seen wires eaten in two. Probably the most
insidious damage is on PCBs. Even with an overcoat (I hate to call it
a conformal coating) on the board, the edges of the traces are
typically vulnerable. The electrolysis proceeds from the edge of the
trace toward the center. When the conductor isn't completely severed,
it is thinned to the point where subsequent vibration can cause it to
sever. Plus the conductive and hygroscopic film left on the board
resumes electrolysis in very humid weather. The solder mask typically
hides the damage from casual inspection so one can't just pop the top
and look for damage.
The sum total of all this is that a flooded car suffers continual and
never-ending failures even after the acute damage is repaired.
Bottom line is that I'd not touch a flooded car if I needed to salvage
ANY of the electrical system. With modern cars, that is pretty much a
necessity since the dash, ABS, entertainment and other electronic
systems are so integrated.
I can see two instances where buying a flooded glider might work. One
is where the running gear is to be stripped to be placed on a custom
car, say, on a kit car. The other is where the glider is to be
stripped and built into a race vehicle.
The other thing to consider is that the flooded car will be shackled
with a SALVAGE or FLOODED title, depending in the state, and that will
dog the car the rest of its life.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:44:13 -0400, "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Yes, I did put on larger tires, 13" or 22"diam Vega wheels and took off the
>golf cart fat tires 19" diameter (10" trailer tires). I may try more toe as
>the 99' Bombardier shop manual says 1/8" but the 2000' manual says 1/8 -
>3/4". I think the 3/4" may be a typo and 1/4" might be more realistic, I
>dunno.
>Thanks, Mark
You're welcome. I suggest trying some more to see what happens. If
you have some level ground, you can do the push test (see if you can
push the vehicle with one finger) to see if the additional toe adds
any significant drag.
Wheel balance shouldn't matter much at low speed unless the unbalance
is gross and/or you happen to hit a resonance.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.rotamax.net/650.html
Says they are now taking orders for this 650cc wankel engine.
75 HP @ 6,700 RPM
110 lbs
44.5cm L x 42cm W x 44.5cm H
"Configurable for other light fuels such as natural gas, alcohol,
propane, etc. at additional cost."
Might make a good APU for a big EV-pickup or something.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You REALLY should be on the EV tech list ... there's been much
discussion lately about battery monitoring / balancing / logging lately.
Main concerns are noise immunity and galvanic isolation (and price).
Robert Chew wrote:
Hey Guys and Gals,
This has been on my mind for a while. I would like to, when gathering
information for my real life drive test of my almost completed vehicle, the
individual battery voltages.
I would like to somehow, connect each battery to a data logger, and write a
visual basic program to read off values, etc, data log, etc etc.
I have no idea on how to make one, and I know its possible using pretty
limited amount of funds. Commercial ones are pretty dear and if I can make
one, well that'll be a bonus.
It may be a lot of work, it may not be. I am not sure. But I don't mind
giving it a try, or I could ask the uni for funds to buy me one. But then
they have to take it back after the thesis is over.
Any suggestions, circuit diagrams etc..
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lots of discussion on this in the past few months - check out the archives.
Check out evtech.org - lots of BMS and monitoring questions going on there.
Check my web site under battery management systems, I have a few links to
homebuilt monitors I found using google.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Chew
Sent: October 13, 2005 6:25 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: individual battery monitor (data logger)
Hey Guys and Gals,
This has been on my mind for a while. I would like to, when gathering
information for my real life drive test of my almost completed vehicle, the
individual battery voltages.
I would like to somehow, connect each battery to a data logger, and write a
visual basic program to read off values, etc, data log, etc etc.
I have no idea on how to make one, and I know its possible using pretty
limited amount of funds. Commercial ones are pretty dear and if I can make
one, well that'll be a bonus.
It may be a lot of work, it may not be. I am not sure. But I don't mind
giving it a try, or I could ask the uni for funds to buy me one. But then
they have to take it back after the thesis is over.
Any suggestions, circuit diagrams etc..
Cheers
--- End Message ---
