EV Digest 4816
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: NiMH charging.
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: FW: DC to DC **PLEASE CLOSE THREAD**
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Civility (was: DC to DC)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: FW: DC to DC **PLEASE CLOSE THREAD**
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: rotary engine for generator
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Civility (was: DC to DC)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: FW: DC to DC **PLEASE CLOSE THREAD**
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: rotary engine for generator
by reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: NiMH charging.
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: rotary engine for generator
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Challenging Drive, feeling better
by "Christopher Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: NiMH charging.
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: rotary engine for generator
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: rotary engine for generator
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: NiMH charging.
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) ETEK parts
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Radiant Heaters
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Challenging Drive, feeling better
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Peanut Gallery was: DC to DC **PLEASE CLOSE THREAD**
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: rotary engine for generator
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Radiant Heaters
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: NiMH charging.
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: individual battery monitor (data logger)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Challenging Drive
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> As SAFT, I should really qualify people first making sure
> they can charge correctly.
> And, no, chargers are not part of the package and I'm
> thinking of making it that way - BRUSA chargers loaded with
> correct profiles will be the match. I'll test it and will see
> if I should suggest having correct charging as a rule.
> Perhaps discounting the batteries as long as the
> preprogrammed charger is bought with them could be wise incentive.
>
> What is you all's opinion?
SAFT has a vested interest in ensuring that their batteries will be
properly treated because they have a battery warranty to honour; unless
you plan to warranty these batteries (an unwise move, IMHO) I don't see
that you have any reason to force any particular charger or algorithm on
the battery purchasers. For instance, these modules are what were used
in NiMH Solectria Forces; would you refuse to sell a NiMH Force owner
batteries to replace his present pack unless he buys a new Brusa charger
from you at the same time? Do you plan to evaluate every potential
buyer's charger and/or algorithm for suitability before accepting a
purchase from them?
Offering a discount on a package deal of batteries + Brusa charger would
seem to me to be quite a generous act. I would caution that if you do
so, you make sure it is clear that you are not implying that the battery
performance is in any way guaranteed simply because you are proviiding a
charger with what you believe to be a good charge algorithm for the
batteries.
> Proper charging consists of dV/dt detection and tracking Ah +
> the temp, so, sorry simple timed CC/CV thing won't cut it
> (like PFC charger as is, without external brains).
Does this mean that you have located an algorithm specification for
these cells? Are you going to share it with the rest of us?
I would caution against the reliance upon of any sort of dV/dt criteria
with a long string of cells. Ah tracking and temp limits are definitely
wise. I doubt that even the mighty Brusa has enough temperature sensor
inputs to be able to rely on temperature rise as a termination criteria.
Cobasys/Ovonics literature states that once the cell is full all charge
energy goes into increasing the cell pressure and temperature, and even
though the cells are steel cased and strapped tightly together I noticed
that there could be obvious differences in temperature between cells in
the same module while on charge (even at very modest 5A rates). This
suggests to me that you would need at least a temperature sensor per
module to even have a hope of detecting an overheating cell in time to
prevent it from venting.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 10:03 AM
Subject: RE: FW: DC to DC **PLEASE CLOSE THREAD**
> David,
>
> It appears you have an issue with "everything Neon John posts". I
understand where you get that from because in the past, yes John has ignited
some fires with his refreshing "lack of political correctness". However, in
the post you are referring to he has shown considerable restraint and I did
not detect any flame-bait. He also, as usual, supported his opinions with
factual examples.
>
> I feel that this time it is you who owe John an apology for implying that
he wouldn't let the thread go and asking him to leave the list.
>
> Please don't keep harrasing him to leave the list because of his posting
of opinions, which some of us agree with him on, are too chicken-shit to
post ourselves for fear of being asked to leave.
>
> I personally can't decide who has the most informative posts, Lee or John.
True, they have different styles, but I for one welcome both of their
inputs. They are both highly knowledgeable in this field. Their "error
checking" of each other, I feel, is welcomed.
>
> I don't think John will leave. But, I don't think he should be constantly
harrassed about it either.
>
> I will not respond publicly to this thread again.
>
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
>
>
>
> Original Message -----------------------
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Roden
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 4:10 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: DC to DC **PLEASE CLOSE THREAD**
>
> On 13 Oct 2005 at 3:18, Neon John wrote:
>
> > I suppose the first item is to attempt to disabuse you of the
> > sophomoric Madison Avenue-generated idea of there always being the one
> > True Best Product and the corollary that more money buys "better".
>
> No, that is not the first item nor the last. There is no need for you to
> disabuse anyone of anything. Your views on this matter are not relevant.
> That is not the purpose of this list.
>
> The thread's originator has declared his problem solved. It's time to
close
> this thread. Let it go, please. If you can't, then please leave the
list.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
> send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are plenty on this list who have plenty to offer. Some prefer to do
it in a way that, whether intentional or otherwise, is frequently offensive.
Not every time, but there is certainly a pattern.
I personally don't have much problem with it, but I don't speak for the
list. I am concerned, however, that we have a lot of new members who are
new to EVs. For someone dealing with the difficulty of learning the ropes,
the added burden of obnoxious, demeaning attitudes might make the whole EV
thing not worth pursuing. Then we all lose.
At the end of Scot Adams' "The Dilbert Principal" he describes what an ideal
company would look like. (There is more intelligence and clarity in that
section than all the fad-management books combined, IMO.) The following
quote tells what Adams' idea of an ideal manager should consider his/her #1
priority. I think it applies to this list rather well.
**************
"Eliminate the [expletive]s. Nothing can drain the life-force out of your
employees as much as a few sadistic [expletive]s who seem to exist for the
sole purpose of making life hard for others.
"Sadly, [expletive]s often have important job skills that you'd like to
keep. My advice is that it's never worth the trade-off. In an [ideal]
company if you're making your co-workers unhappy, then you're incompetent by
definition. It's OK to be 'tough' and it's OK to be 'aggressive' and it's
OK to disagree - even shout. That's not necessarily being an [expletive].
Some conflict is healthy. But if you do it with disrespect, or you seem to
be enjoying it, or you do it in every situation, guess what - you're an
[expletive]. And you're gone."
**************
Note that nowhere here have I mentioned any names. Yet anyone with even a
brief history on the EVDL knows exactly who I'm talking about. Kinda makes
the case.
I don't advocate any immediate action here. People do change. I do believe
that any short-term gain from any individual's insight or experience does
*not* compensate for the long-term damaged caused by continuous hostility.
Is it really so hard to disagree in a respectful, civil manner?
Life's too short.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Huh? I "posted' this? Sorry, musta hit "Send" after reading?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: FW: DC to DC **PLEASE CLOSE THREAD**
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 10:03 AM
> Subject: RE: FW: DC to DC **PLEASE CLOSE THREAD**
>
>
> > David,
> >
> > It appears you have an issue with "everything Neon John posts". I
> understand where you get that from because in the past, yes John has
ignited
> some fires with his refreshing "lack of political correctness". However,
in
> the post you are referring to he has shown considerable restraint and I
did
> not detect any flame-bait. He also, as usual, supported his opinions with
> factual examples.
> >
> > I feel that this time it is you who owe John an apology for implying
that
> he wouldn't let the thread go and asking him to leave the list.
> >
> > Please don't keep harrasing him to leave the list because of his posting
> of opinions, which some of us agree with him on, are too chicken-shit to
> post ourselves for fear of being asked to leave.
> >
> > I personally can't decide who has the most informative posts, Lee or
John.
> True, they have different styles, but I for one welcome both of their
> inputs. They are both highly knowledgeable in this field. Their "error
> checking" of each other, I feel, is welcomed.
> >
> > I don't think John will leave. But, I don't think he should be
constantly
> harrassed about it either.
> >
> > I will not respond publicly to this thread again.
> >
> > Stay Charged!
> > Hump
> >
> >
> >
> > Original Message -----------------------
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of David Roden
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 4:10 AM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: DC to DC **PLEASE CLOSE THREAD**
> >
> > On 13 Oct 2005 at 3:18, Neon John wrote:
> >
> > > I suppose the first item is to attempt to disabuse you of the
> > > sophomoric Madison Avenue-generated idea of there always being the one
> > > True Best Product and the corollary that more money buys "better".
> >
> > No, that is not the first item nor the last. There is no need for you to
> > disabuse anyone of anything. Your views on this matter are not
relevant.
> > That is not the purpose of this list.
> >
> > The thread's originator has declared his problem solved. It's time to
> close
> > this thread. Let it go, please. If you can't, then please leave the
> list.
> >
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EV List Assistant Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> > or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
> > send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bit of history on that-
Rotamax is the Wankel engine that Moller designed for his flying Skycar.
Moller Industries has been the king of vapor marketing. For some 10 yrs
they're saying the Skycar is ready to go in 6 months when in reality
they're far away from a consumer product, if such a thing is ever
possible, much less FAA approval which could take 10 yrs.
Not that they haven't done remarkable things, the task Moller took up is
just unprecedented and nearly impossible. That engine is supposed to be
amazing. They did hover a test model of the Skycar a couple of years
ago. It lifted up on its own power, though this is far from
demonstrating the advertised 350 mph flight at full gross wt.
They've been promising that engine was going into a limited prototype
run. Next quarter. I recall hearing that maybe 8 yrs ago! Anyhow,
when they licensed the design to Rotamax, Rotamax apparently actually
intends to do it. They're supposed to finally have done that run a year
or so ago. I haven't heard anything about how it went so I don't know
if the tech's reliable and lives up to its specs.
I hope it works, I'm an ultralight pilot and we need engines in this
weight and power range, the current technology is somewhat unreliable,
fuel-guzzling, insanely expensive (many $K's) two strokes. Regrettably
Moller made a policy that they don't sell for any aircraft use because
"it would compete with the Skycar" (which is virtually insane). I heard
at least one guy managed to get one and was building a reduction unit to
try it on an ultralight though.
Danny
Evan Tuer wrote:
http://www.rotamax.net/650.html
Says they are now taking orders for this 650cc wankel engine.
75 HP @ 6,700 RPM
110 lbs
44.5cm L x 42cm W x 44.5cm H
"Configurable for other light fuels such as natural gas, alcohol,
propane, etc. at additional cost."
Might make a good APU for a big EV-pickup or something.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks, I don't know how productive it is to discuss this on-list. After
all, it's not about EVs!
Post if you wish, I won't exactly discourage it - but I also ENcourage you
to contact me by private email instead, using the evdl address (see below),
with your comments.
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John said:
I suppose the first item is to attempt to disabuse you of the
sophomoric Madison Avenue-generated idea of there always being the
one True Best Product and the corollary that more money buys "better".
List Mod David said:
The thread's originator has declared his problem solved. It's time
to close this thread.
Hump said:
It appears you have an issue with "everything Neon John posts".>
I appreciate the informative content of Neon John's posts, but I feel
that the personal derogatory comments have no place here and that David
is right on when he asks John to leave that out of his posts. The
characterization of another list member's views as "sophomoric" was
unnecessary to the point John was making.
Is it possible that John can share data and express himself without
putting anyone down in the process??
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
7000rpm wankel engine ?
if it sounds anything like the microlight rotary engines you are going to need
a really big silencer if you want to use it as a generator in a car !
nice power to weight in these little rotary motors and pretty reliable now -
but the noise is always the problem
you could always tell people your car is a new trabant model
reb
Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://www.rotamax.net/650.html
Says they are now taking orders for this 650cc wankel engine.
75 HP @ 6,700 RPM
110 lbs
44.5cm L x 42cm W x 44.5cm H
"Configurable for other light fuels such as natural gas, alcohol,
propane, etc. at additional cost."
Might make a good APU for a big EV-pickup or something.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would caution against the reliance upon of any sort of dV/dt criteria
with a long string of cells. Ah tracking and temp limits are definitely
wise. I doubt that even the mighty Brusa has enough temperature sensor
inputs to be able to rely on temperature rise as a termination criteria.
Cobasys/Ovonics literature states that once the cell is full all charge
energy goes into increasing the cell pressure and temperature, and even
though the cells are steel cased and strapped tightly together I noticed
that there could be obvious differences in temperature between cells in
the same module while on charge (even at very modest 5A rates). This
suggests to me that you would need at least a temperature sensor per
module to even have a hope of detecting an overheating cell in time to
prevent it from venting.
*nod* I would have to agree. I have been working on chargers for
Prismatic NiMH batteries for awhile now using the TI BQ2003/04 series
controller chips, and the results are somewhat interesting.
Basically the dV/dt saddles are a lot smaller on NiMH than on NiCD. In a
string of more than three prismatics (18 cells) I seem to run the risk
of missing it even using a BQ2004 to sample the pack. On a longer string
of batteries you'll probably miss it and overcharge. To date I've blown
up two Prismatics, and this was with dV/dt and dT/dt (temp over time) on
the center battery pack. Running dT/dt on all three packs seems to trip
the charge cycle properly. Do not use the BQ2003 chip; it doesn't sample
the pack fast enough or long enough to pick up the more subtle saddle of
a NiMH battery. The 04 seems to be better.
Granted I was charging at C rates (c=6.5ah on these batteries), which
you probably will not do on these batteries, but you need to charge at
least C/4. And watch for dT/dt; once they start to warm up they go pop
soon after. Or they vent which means less electrolyte.
My thoughts for charging would be to build a BQ2004 based monitor for
each battery (11 cells) with temp monitoring and dV/DT. Have the outputs
go to a Stamp or something like that which can AND those inputs, an AH
counter, and a deadlock timer to keep the charge time reasonable. Even
with that you might want to think about having a small 10a N-FET charger
on each battery connected to an isolated power source so you can charge
the batteries every month or two individually at once. Then use the
Stamp to monitor the "recalibrate" charge and see if any batteries are
being weird.
NiCDs seem to be easier.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10/13/05, Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bit of history on that-
> Rotamax is the Wankel engine that Moller designed for his flying Skycar.
> Moller Industries has been the king of vapor marketing. For some 10 yrs
> they're saying the Skycar is ready to go in 6 months when in reality
> they're far away from a consumer product, if such a thing is ever
> possible, much less FAA approval which could take 10 yrs.
I think you're thinking of the Rotapower: http://www.freedom-motors.com/
I don't know anything about the RotaMax other than what's on their web
page, but I don't see any connection to any moller vaporware. And, as
I said, they are actually taking orders for it.
The rest is off topic, so no comment :)
Regards
Evan
>
> Evan Tuer wrote:
>
> >http://www.rotamax.net/650.html
> >
> >Says they are now taking orders for this 650cc wankel engine.
> >75 HP @ 6,700 RPM
> >110 lbs
> >44.5cm L x 42cm W x 44.5cm H
> >
> >"Configurable for other light fuels such as natural gas, alcohol,
> >propane, etc. at additional cost."
> >
> >Might make a good APU for a big EV-pickup or something.
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson wrote:
> Thanks, I set the toe in last night to 1/8" as recommended in the
manual,
> it
> was straight on so I think that helped. Also I'm moving the 3ea
US8VGC's
> out of the trunk and put them on the passenger floor as recommended.
I'm
> not sure where to get an anti-sway bar as the one's from JC Whitney
are
> vehicle specific.
An anti-sway bar will only affect handling in turns. At all other times
it exerts no influence. I think your instability is occurring when
going (or trying to go) straight ahead? Also, you are correct that an
anti-sway bar is vehicle-specific. To add one to your golf cart you'd
probably need something like they use on race cars, adjustable and a
more "generic" fit. You'd also probably need mount points on the
body/frame capable of supporting the loads.
> I'm not sure how to add positive castor but I could add some camber by
> shiming the lower brake backing plate bolts to get the wheels to tilt
> outward at the bottom more (now their slightly tilted inward due to
the
> light front end.
Personally I wouldn't go changing anything from standard specs just yet.
See below.
> Still need to get doors next, probably jeep type although I was told
Lexan
> is good.
>
> I was told to get the wheels balanced but another mechanic said it
> doesn't
> matter up to 45mph. I put 73' Chevy Vega 13" rims/wheels on. Does
wheel
> spin balancing matter at low speed?
Your mechanic's rule of thumb applies well enough to cars, maybe not so
well to over-speeded golf carts.
If it was me, I'd go over the cart and make sure it meets all the
original specs, including the wheels. Now get it up to your higher
speed and see how it behaves. If you needed the wheels to get that
speed, try a downhill run.
If the higher speed with original wheels will overspeed the motor, it
gets more complicated. Your Vega wheels might have a substantially
different offset from the originals. Any one-wheel disturbance then
becomes a steering input. Or any non-even wear on the tires might have
the same effect (personal experience speaking here).
My guess is that the Vega wheels have a big positive offset compared to
the originals. Not only will that cause the squirreliness described
above, it will also wear out your outer wheel bearings faster. Measure
the offset of the original wheels. (Distance from center of the tire to
the mounting flange.) Now try to locate some larger wheels as close to
that offset as possible. Narrower wheels are less likely to have a
dramatic offset, and will also hold lighter, narrower, lower resistance
tires. Make sure the tires you use, if not new, are evenly worn and not
out-of-round.
If everything else on the cart is OK, simply changing wheels should not
make it go nuts over a certain speed.
Good luck,
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> To date I've blown up two Prismatics, and this was with
> dV/dt and dT/dt (temp over time) on the center battery
> pack.
> Granted I was charging at C rates (c=6.5ah on these
> batteries), which you probably will not do on these
> batteries, but you need to charge at least C/4. And
> watch for dT/dt; once they start to warm up they go pop
> soon after. Or they vent which means less electrolyte.
These Ovonics batteries are 85Ah at the C/3 rate, and they are supposed
to accept a charge rate of up to C until 70%SOC.
Like NiCds, the higher the charge rate, the quicker things go BANG if
you miss the telltale signs of nearing full charge.
There is no need to charge at a minimum of C/4; EV's typically recharge
overnight, so a complete charge in 8hrs is probably sufficient for most
users. The lower the charge rate, the greater the amount of time you
have to detect nearing full charge and taking appropriate action. The
batteries certainly will charge just fine at even very low rates of
2-4A. At 4A (~C/20), it would most likely be relatively difficult to
harm the batteries even with hours of excessive overcharge (this is the
operating principle behind dumb NiCd chargers: charge at such a low rate
that the cells will not be harmed even if left on the charger for hours
more than necessary).
If you can tolerate a relatively long charge duration, the batteries
ought to be fairly straightforward to charge. The quicker you want to
charge, the more sophisticated your charger needs to be to prevent
overcharge damage.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
RotaMax is produced by Thermo Fan.
You can find more information about this here:
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/667
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 06:49:24PM +0100, Evan Tuer wrote:
> On 10/13/05, Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Bit of history on that-
> > Rotamax is the Wankel engine that Moller designed for his flying Skycar.
> > Moller Industries has been the king of vapor marketing. For some 10 yrs
> > they're saying the Skycar is ready to go in 6 months when in reality
> > they're far away from a consumer product, if such a thing is ever
> > possible, much less FAA approval which could take 10 yrs.
>
> I think you're thinking of the Rotapower: http://www.freedom-motors.com/
>
> I don't know anything about the RotaMax other than what's on their web
> page, but I don't see any connection to any moller vaporware. And, as
> I said, they are actually taking orders for it.
>
> The rest is off topic, so no comment :)
>
> Regards
> Evan
>
> >
> > Evan Tuer wrote:
> >
> > >http://www.rotamax.net/650.html
> > >
> > >Says they are now taking orders for this 650cc wankel engine.
> > >75 HP @ 6,700 RPM
> > >110 lbs
> > >44.5cm L x 42cm W x 44.5cm H
> > >
> > >"Configurable for other light fuels such as natural gas, alcohol,
> > >propane, etc. at additional cost."
> > >
> > >Might make a good APU for a big EV-pickup or something.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's not a rotary, but this engine seems to have a lot going for it:
http://aerotwinmotors.com/pages/at_specs.htm
Under 95 lbs, 4-stroke turbocharged straight twin... It's designed for
the AirScooter ultralight coaxial helicopter (airscooter.com), but they
seem interested in marketing the engine for other purposes as well. If
you could get 50HP out of this thing at 3600rpm, then making a portable
(towable) generator out of it would seem trivial.
Unfortunately they don't seem to be on the market yet, and the company has
not responded to the email I sent them a week ago.
--chris
Evan Tuer said:
> http://www.rotamax.net/650.html
>
> Says they are now taking orders for this 650cc wankel engine.
> 75 HP @ 6,700 RPM
> 110 lbs
> 44.5cm L x 42cm W x 44.5cm H
>
> "Configurable for other light fuels such as natural gas, alcohol,
> propane, etc. at additional cost."
>
> Might make a good APU for a big EV-pickup or something.
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
On 10/12/05, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> To the people First, they won't be sold to anybody.
I think you meant "won't be sold to any old Joe Blow" right? But you
are selling them?
> Second, no warranty because of experiments for charging
> are anticipated.
That's what I thought. It's not a very good idea to offer a warranty
of course, and for such a good price too.
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--- Begin Message ---
Anybody have the little clips that go on the sides of the rotor in the ETEK
motors. They connect oneside to the other over the top. I got my motor so
hot they desoldered and fell off. I lost a few 5 or 6 aught to do it. I
also need to know which type of solder to use.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
Howdy,
It's getting that time of year again and I was wondering if anyone can
recommend a toasty VW like or camper type aftermarket heater for my drafty
Bombardier with jeep-like doors. I could put an electric Fostoria like strip
radiant heater under the dash (& blow-dryer defrost) and nichrome rewind (from
Omega) or tap it for 72V operation but maybe fire would be warmer and not
reduce already challenged cold range.
Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Thanks David, I'll check tonight, I didn't notice any wobling when I spun
the tires last night and have 35psi in the rear and 25psi in the front as
recommended. I'll also try more toe and check rolling resistance tonight as
John recommended. I'll start moving the 3 trunk batteries to the passenger
floor pan also (with enclosure).
BTW, If anyone lives near Livermore or Altamont Pass (6k unit wind farm) or
is familiar with that area of California, could you email me offline at home
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . I have some area questions. I'm trying to find EV
friendly/biking roads.
Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: Challenging Drive, feeling better
> Just to make sure you are not skippinng the easy things -- what tire
> pressures are you running? You might try high pressure in the rears
> and a bit lower in front to see if that helps. Also, if you jack up
> so a wheel is off the ground, is everything tight? A wheel wobbling
> can cause alot of instability.
>
> For street speeds I'd be surprised if camber made any detectable
> difference, unless it was way off.
>
> --- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Thanks, I set the toe in last night to 1/8" as recommended in the
> > manual, it
> > was straight on so I think that helped. Also I'm moving the 3ea
> > US8VGC's
> > out of the trunk and put them on the passenger floor as
> > recommended. I'm
> > not sure where to get an anti-sway bar as the one's from JC Whitney
> > are
> > vehicle specific.
> >
> > I'm not sure how to add positive castor but I could add some camber
> > by
> > shiming the lower brake backing plate bolts to get the wheels to
> > tilt
> > outward at the bottom more (now their slightly tilted inward due to
> > the
> > light front end.
> > ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited
> Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
> http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Ken Trough wrote:
Neon John said:
I suppose the first item is to attempt to disabuse you of the
sophomoric Madison Avenue-generated idea of there always being the
one True Best Product and the corollary that more money buys "better".
List Mod David said:
The thread's originator has declared his problem solved. It's time
to close this thread.
Hump said:
It appears you have an issue with "everything Neon John posts".>
I appreciate the informative content of Neon John's posts, but I feel
that the personal derogatory comments have no place here and that David
is right on when he asks John to leave that out of his posts. The
characterization of another list member's views as "sophomoric" was
unnecessary to the point John was making.
Is it possible that John can share data and express himself without
putting anyone down in the process??
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
Perhaps it is because the quote is taken out of context, but when I read
the Neon sentence about "sophomoric Madison-Avenue idea" I don't hear a
put-down of anyone-- I just hear common folk-wisdom. Marketing is often
hype, and pricing is often a false-indicator of quality. A bit of
cynicism is healthy and sane for enlightened consumers.
It is common for humans to interpret, and once we have boxed someone
into a reputation, we can develop a premature cognitive commitment--
seeing what we are looking for. "Personal derogatory comments" are often
inferred.
Casually following this thread, I did not see any personal attacks, just
strongly-worded expressions of strongly-held ideas.
Did I miss something?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10/13/05, reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 7000rpm wankel engine ?
> if it sounds anything like the microlight rotary engines you are going to
> need a really big
> silencer if you want to use it as a generator in a car !
> nice power to weight in these little rotary motors and pretty reliable now -
> but the noise is
> always the problem
I guess you're right. Mind you, it's probably not much worse than
anything else with an extreme power to weight ratio, like a bike
engine..
> you could always tell people your car is a new trabant model
Hah! Maybe the new RX-7?
>
> Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.rotamax.net/650.html
>
> Says they are now taking orders for this 650cc wankel engine.
> 75 HP @ 6,700 RPM
> 110 lbs
> 44.5cm L x 42cm W x 44.5cm H
>
> "Configurable for other light fuels such as natural gas, alcohol,
> propane, etc. at additional cost."
>
> Might make a good APU for a big EV-pickup or something.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with
> voicemail
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mark,
I'm using a underdash radiant heaters, made by Phillips. One is a 640 watts on
the driver side and one is 840 watts on the passenger side besides the 1000
watt electric hot water heater that is pump to the existing heater core.
All these units are 120 VAC that runs off a 120 VAC 60 HZ inverter that runs
off my 12-15 VDC 145 amp DC/ 110 VDC alternator/inverter.
The advantage of having a 120 VAC 60 HZ, is that there is a transfer switch
that can either select the on board inverter system or the outboard commercial
power, that comes from the same 120/240 VAC 60 amp power plug input that feeds
the battery charger circuit and three 120 VAC 20 amp circuits for the heating
system.
About 15 minutes before I leave with the EV and if it's a 0 degrees F. I than
preheat the EV, which the inside cab temperature will get up over 80 degrees F.
If I only drive 2 miles, this is only the heating I needed. If I let the EV
set out side for a hour at any temperature below 0 F. Than all I need is to run
the windshield defrosting fans for about a minute, because the hot water that
is in a double insulated tank, is still warm enough to defrost the windshield.
Also I than select the onboard inverter system to heat the undercab heaters.
Even if its 30 degrees below 0, I only turn on the driver side 640 degree
heater on, and is needs to be on for about 30 seconds before the thermostat
turns it off.
Its also helps to have the entire floor and side panels insulated for about 15
R-Factor. I'm using 2 inch thick semi-soft blue upholstery foam under the
carpets, firewall and vertical panels. There is a thick rubberize white
compound spray on the inside the door skin and 1- inch layer of soft white
upholstery foam under the door panels.
Its been awhile since I purchase these cab heaters. I think I got them from a
auto parts store.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Hanson<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 1:04 PM
Subject: Radiant Heaters
Howdy,
It's getting that time of year again and I was wondering if anyone can
recommend a toasty VW like or camper type aftermarket heater for my drafty
Bombardier with jeep-like doors. I could put an electric Fostoria like strip
radiant heater under the dash (& blow-dryer defrost) and nichrome rewind (from
Omega) or tap it for 72V operation but maybe fire would be warmer and not
reduce already challenged cold range.
Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These Ovonics batteries are 85Ah at the C/3 rate, and they are supposed
to accept a charge rate of up to C until 70%SOC.
True, big difference; there is more stuff in the battery as a buffer.
Like NiCds, the higher the charge rate, the quicker things go BANG if
you miss the telltale signs of nearing full charge.
Problem seems to be the NiMH is very subtle about it's voltage drop. If
you have a good sized string you might miss it before the voltage goes
up again.
There is no need to charge at a minimum of C/4; EV's typically recharge
overnight, so a complete charge in 8hrs is probably sufficient for most
users. The lower the charge rate, the greater the amount of time you
have to detect nearing full charge and taking appropriate action. The
batteries certainly will charge just fine at even very low rates of
2-4A. At 4A (~C/20), it would most likely be relatively difficult to
harm the batteries even with hours of excessive overcharge (this is the
operating principle behind dumb NiCd chargers: charge at such a low rate
that the cells will not be harmed even if left on the charger for hours
more than necessary).
NiMH and NiCD are a bit different in this regard: Apparently you're not
supposed to trickle charge NiMH batteries. Part of the reason you can't
replace NiCDs with NiMH in many devices; dumb chargers that apply a C/10
constant charge will cook NiMH batteries.
If you can tolerate a relatively long charge duration, the batteries
ought to be fairly straightforward to charge. The quicker you want to
charge, the more sophisticated your charger needs to be to prevent
overcharge damage.
Quite true: Main reason I backed off the charge rate on my Hawkers. Been
a year and they have full range. Last pack dried out in under a year.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robert Chew [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I would like to somehow, connect each battery to a data
> logger, and write a visual basic program to read off values,
> etc, data log, etc etc.
> Any suggestions, circuit diagrams etc..
While there is lots of discussion of battery management schemes on the
EVTech list, it doesn't sound like you need anything nearly that
complex.
All you need is a DMM with RS-232 interface and a handful of PhotoMOS
relays (optoisolators with FET outputs) to allow the DMM's input to be
connected to each battery in turn. Use a pair of relays per battery so
that both the negative and positive inputs to the meter can be 'walked'
along the pack.
If you have 8 or fewer batteries, then you can simply use the PC
parallel port data lines to select each of 8 pairs of relays. If you
have more than 8 batteries to monitor, then you can add a bit of logic
between the parallel port and the relays to allow decoding them. I have
used a 4094 followed by a pair of 4028s to allow selection of any one of
up to 64 batteries (decoded in an 8x8 matrix). The use of the 4094 and
4028s also ensures that the hardware prevents inadvertant selection of
more than one battery simultaneously should your software do something
unexpected.
My code was written in QBasic so that it could run on any DOS
PC/notebook and controlled the battery selection relays via the PC
parallel port and read the battery voltage from the RS232 DMM via one of
the COM ports. Data was logged to the screen and disk (in .csv format
for easy import to a spreadsheet for later analysis/graphing).
Make sure that the DMM you try to use has a simple ASCII RS232 interface
rather than some proprietary graphical or other data format. A typical
ASCII interface would require your software to send a character (e.g.
"D") to the DMM to prompt it for a reading, and it would then reply with
a string such as "12.74V".
If you want to scan the batteries more rapidly, then the DMM approach
will likely prove too slow. In this case, you may want to try a serial
ADC, or perhaps one of the PC data acquisition devices, such as those
from Dataq <http://www.dataq.com/>, for example, the $24.94 DI-194RS
Starter Kit <http://www.dataq.com/194.htm>. Just beware that if you
don't use a DMM, you should ensure that you optoisolate the serial
connection.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
I'll echo that!
One _inch_ seems like far too much. Are you sure you didn't mean to say
one _degree_?
I seem to recall that the last time I set toe on my car, I gave it
something like 1/8" of toe.
cheers,
Andrew
David Roden wrote:
On 12 Oct 2005 at 2:39, Neon John wrote:
I'd try one inch of toe to start out.
That sounds like a lot. Most EVs are set for zero toe, or close to it, to
reduce rolling resistance.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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