EV Digest 4829
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Introduction
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Fet Switch (for heater etc) ; Also, Relay Question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) The big one.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Pump for Zilla cooling
by "Jamie Marshall \(GAMES\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Why Le Car makes a great EV
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) VW Van conversion.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Introduction
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Conversion Market Value Proof Needed
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Conversion Market Value Proof Needed
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Twist-lock connectors
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Conversion Market Value Proof Needed
by Steve Gaarder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Conversion Market Value Proof Needed
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Liquid cooling package now available
by "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: The big one.
by "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: The big one.
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Fet Switch (for heater etc) ; Also, Relay Question [maybe OT]
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: The big one.
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) More DC Motor Questions - Thanks for your patience
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28) Re: need better layout under hood
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Backup generator or true hybrid
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: OT - Variable Freq Drive needed
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Calvin King wrote:
> A few weeks back I purchased a '81 Jet Electrica... a 96V system
> using 16 - 6 volt Trojans (5 T605's and 11 T105's)... Curtis
> controller 1221-7401... K&W charger model BC20.
Welcome to the EV list! This is probably the best place to find help in
fixing and maintaining your EV.
Your EV is a good, basic, straightforward vehicle that should be simple
to repair. For a first EV, it is probably a lot better than the recent
auto company EVs, which are nearly impossible to fix.
> It turned out that I had a battery post melt. Bypassed the battery
> and drove home. I have since replaced the battery with a used one
> and double checked all the battery connections.
That's a common problem, and a good solution. A simple way to find bad
connections before they melt is to feel them after a drive. Any that get
hot are failing!
Lead is soft and distorts easily -- connections tend to loosen over
time, especially if they get hot. Don't overtighten; this just crushes
the lead -- torque them as the battery manufacturer recommends. Keep
them clean; corrosion creates bad connections. Other hints:
- use automotive post connections (not the 5/16" bolt stud that
sticks out of the post)
- use high quality tin plated copper terminals (not cheap automotive
"emergency repair" terminals)
- coat the terminals with vaseline to keep water and acid out
- use belleville spring washers on the bolts, which will maintain
pressure even as the lead cold-flows
> The meters are not connected and I have yet to figure out how to
> trace the disconnect and reconnect.
It's important to have a working voltmeter and ammeter at the very
least. Without them, you are almost certain to quickly destroy your
batteries.
If you don't already have one, get a good high-quality digital
multimeter. Don't get some cheap off-brand one; accuracy and reliability
are important! Wire this meter so you can monitor battery pack voltage
while charging and driving. Your basic guidelines are:
- Drive so you never pull the batteries under 1.75v/cell (84v for
your 96v pack). This is easy with a fully charged pack, but as it
runs down, you have to be more and more gentle with the throttle.
This rule keeps you from over-discharging the pack.
- Charge until the batteries reach 2.5v/cell (120v for your 96v pack)
at a current of less than 5 amps. This rule keeps you from over-
charging. As the batteries age, or when they are hot, this voltage
needs to be reduced slightly (115v for old or hot batteries).
Once you have a good multimeter, you can start tracing out the wiring to
figure out what's wrong with the vehicle's existing meters.
> Next issue is the charger. No paper work, so no instructions on
> most efficient operation.
I think others have already posted where you can get the manual online.
Basically, you set the charger's voltage control as above (120v if your
batteries are reasonably new), and the charger's current control to
whatever you can draw from your AC outlet without tripping a circuit
breaker.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Arthur W. Matteson wrote:
> If it were me, Mark, I would use the RLY-351 linked below.
No; this relay is only for switching 12vdc loads (32vdc maximum). It
would be a very bad choice for a high voltage heater load!
The classic relay of choice for an EV heater is a Potter & Brumfield /
Siemens / Tyco PRD series; for example, the PRD-7DH0-12 is a DPST relay
with a 12vdc coil, and 20-amp contacts rated at 125vdc (250vdc in
series). They are available new for about $30. For smaller loads, the
KUEP series is about half the price but only good to 10 amps.
No matter which relay (or MOSFET or solid-state relay) you use, a
snubber should be placed across either the relay itself or the load. A
freewheel diode is appropriate for inductive loads, but heaters are not
inductive. A more appropriate snubber for a heater is a series R-C
network. The resistor is in the range of 10-100 ohms, and the capacitor
in the range of 0.1-1 uf.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Geek lilsters...
Most of you know that I am in the design and test proccess of building a 75Kw
charger.
I have to becarfull of what I say and show the whole world.
We have 2 new shots of glowing Ni chrome load banks and the display pannel of
the charger in action.
This first shot is 3 6000 watt 0.171 ohm NiChrome breaking resistors enduring
20Kw of abuse.
It takes about 4 minutes to get these resistors this hot.
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/HotNiCr1.JPG
This shot is if a BSD meter. Look up Bruce Sherry's meters that he sells
through CloudEV.com
Anyways this meter is a special flavor for me. Reads up to 999 amps and logs Kw
up to 99 Kw and 99 kwhr or power.
Notice that the control knob on the top PFC50 control card on the right(Just
above the bright green LED) is not even at %50 throttle commad.
This Unit has very little respect for 100 amps or even 200 amps of output
current. The design goal is 400 amps of 185 volts. I can't get to that data
point without 100 amps of 480 VAC 3 phase.
I am working with my land lord on getting access to the 480 3Phase this week.
The Scarey part is at 20 kw, I am barely over 1/4 the power I need to make. I
have taken the system to 30+Kw for short bursts. This is touching the 100 amp
per phase limit on the 75KVA line transformer that is our front end.
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/75Kat20K.JPG
I will get some shots of the water cooling system in support of The "Ryan's
cooling Kit" Thread.
Enjoy the watts at my expense.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've had this pump in my Sparrow for a couple years now. It works quite
well, but mine is noisy. Two reasons could be for this, one is that I
did a bad job laying out the coolant flow (confined space to work with
you see) and the radiator wasn't flooded to start, so big air bubbles
went through the pump as I first primed it, possibly damaging it.
Second theory is that life in a car isn't good for the bearing on the
pump. These things are sold to sit on a desk, not to be exposed to the
shock of potholes. I've wondered if it may have been damaged.
I know people who have these for PC cooling, and they are quieter than
the average PC power supply fans. Mine is very loud now. It's gotten
worse since I first put it in.
I may try again and avoid running it dry this time, but I'm still
worried that it'll get louder over time if the shock is hurting it.
-Jamie
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 3:39 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Pump for Zilla cooling
I've been doing a lot of "research" (web surfing) into finding a decent
12V pump for use with the Zilla -- I consider the use of an inverter
kinda hack-ish.
My "research" mostly involved reading about what the overclockers
(people who max out their computer performance) are using for their
water cooled computers. Many of these guys leave their computer on
24/7, so pump reliability is something they're really sensitive to,
since a blown pump means a blown CPU.
Seems like the best price/performance is to be had with the Swiftech
MCP-655 (Aka Liang D5). It's 12V, 1/2" barb connections. The only
moving part is the impeller which is magnetically coupled to an
electronic communtator. Think of a brushless DC motor where the rotor is
actually a pump impeller. There is only 1 wear point: a ceramic bead
bearing. You can see the internals of this pump here:
http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_mcp655-03.html
Near as I can tell, this is an industrial pump that's been repurposed
for CPU cooling.
Specs:
Model: MCP-655
12V
10' Head
1/2" barbs in/out
NON submersible
317 GPH (5.28 GPM).
Made by Liang,model: D5
Typically about $75 each
Incidently, this pump is sold by the same folks (Swiftech) that make the
radiator in the liquid cooling package that Ryan is selling. FWIW, the
price of the cooling package that Ryan is selling is a good deal, even
if for the pump _alone_, which seems to retail for $130 to (more
typically) $170 to $200. If I didn't already have 80% of the parts in
the kit on order, I'd think of getting one myself.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:49:33 -0700, "John G. Lussmyer"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>At 10:40 AM 10/18/2005, Neon John wrote:
>>the cheapest. For example, I noticed that Harbor Freight has the
>>Italian-made 60 hz alternators on sale right now. A 10kw head is a
>>little over $200. I used that head on my homemade diesel generator
>>and am quite satisfied with it. It is a brushless, self-excited
>>alternator.
>
>Umm, I think you and I have a different definition of "a little".
>I don't consider $299.99 to be "a little over $200". (usually, it's $399)
>(Note: that is really rated at 7200W continuous, not 10KW)
I don't think we're looking at the same head. Unfortunately I threw
out my sale catalog. I was thinking the sale price was $229 but I
didn't want to rely on memory. I'm a little dyslexic so I might have
confused the second digit.
I have one of the heads and have tested it extensively. It does 10 kw
while barely getting warm. It will do a bit over 11kw continuously
before the voltage sags too much and the waveform starts to get
rotten. Still no heat problems. My concession stand draws right at
10kw, depending on what is running at the time. This generator has
supplied power to the stand for many hundreds of hours.
I am amazed at the quality of the head, given the price (I bought mine
the last time it was on sale.)
Another nice thing to know about this generator is that the voltage
regulation is via a separate winding resonated with a capacitor. The
cap value sets the voltage. I frequently run my concession stand at
the other end of a long cord so I installed a switch that adds enough
capacitance to boost the voltage about 15 volts. This compensates for
the drop through about 100 ft of #8 cable plus the concession stand
wiring.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wondered why Le Cars were good EV's. I really didn't think much of them.
Now I know. Lawrence Rhodes.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-Renault-Le-Car-LeCAR-R5-48MPG-BEAUTIFUL-50PIX-NR_W0QQitemZ4582840867QQcategoryZ6385QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:06:53 -0500, Danny Miller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm a little confused on the concept. These gensets are usually
>inefficient, bad emissions, and quite noisy. While you may not need to
>use the genset within its electric range, using it would negate all the
>benefits of electric vehicles, in fact it should be far worse than the
>original engine on those 3 fronts.
All true. Same discussion as last week. IMHO, the best "hybrid" is
two vehicles in the driveway, one EV and one fuel for short and long
trips respectively.
>
>If it all boils down to cost then the best thing is to go with the
>original engine. If we're talking about making a hybrid then I'd think
>you'd look for a setup that yields a benefit or the cost is wasted. The
>Capstone, some of the new tech superengines would be interesting.
It's going to be very hard to beat the BSFC of a modern electronically
controlled automotive diesel engine since weight is a concern. For
stationary applications, it's hard to beat the slow speed engines such
as the Listers. BSFC as low as 0.35 have been reported. As an aside,
the world's most efficient single cycle engine is a huge diesel engine
(98,000 HP at 101 rpm) built into a large ship. It's BSFC is 0.26 at
max efficiency. That works out to 1600 gallons/hour of heavy fuel oil
:-) http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
About the only thing the Capstone has going for it is weight and size.
The BSFC is quite high, one of the things AVS overlooked when they
chose that power plant.
If one wanted to play with high tech and efficiency, why not build a
combined cycle generator around a high efficiency diesel? Let the
jacket cooling preheat the water and then boil it in an exhaust-heated
boiler. Drive a steam engine/generator and use a radiator as the air
cooled condenser. Turbines don't get the edge on efficiency until
they get quite large so I'd design a piston type engine. If I really
wanted an adventure, I'd go for a crankless design. An alternative
would be a waste heat driven Stirling engine, though I suspect that
making an efficient one would challenge most any tinkerer to the max.
Another, simpler, combined cycle application would use the diesel's
turbocharger to drive a high speed alternator. At the NTRC conference
I attended several years ago, they were showing a lightweight diesel
generator built for the Army using just such a concept. They'd
developed a rather nifty radial gap PM alternator in a pancake format
that fit in a space behind the blower housing. All they did was
modify the blower housing to hold the stator and make a longer turbine
shaft onto which to mount the rotor.
The army generator had a pancake type radial gap alternator direct
mounted to the crank and the smaller version on the turbo. Both fed a
60/400 hz inverter that supplied the actual output.
They also showed a Class 8 semi truck that had been developed and was
in testing with US Xpress that used the pancake alternator on the
turbo to supply the truck's electrical needs. That eliminated the
engine-driven alternator.
I have photos...
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking a 156v "Transzilla""VanZillagon" might be a good vehicle
concept for the minivan set. 26 6v batteries. A 156k Zilla. PFC 50 or
maybe the 75 when it's out. 9 inch ADC. Seems to me it would be a good
balance of performance and range. A family down the street needs a Van for
a child that has special needs. (Wheelchair) I've seen some of the newer
(80's) Vanogans have plenty of space under all the seats for batteries. I
can't imagine it being too hard to get 26 in and the Transporter should take
it in stride especially with a 9 inch and a Zilla. Otmar seems to love
these vehicles. I'm wondering what he thinks.(especially about current
limiting and such & use of a zilla in a vehicle this big) It will also have
room for the wheelchair elevator. I'd give them a big break on my labor
because they are my neighbors. They also want to put in Solar. They have
their hearts in the right place. The wheelchair bound girl is also adopted.
They have put in an elevator in their house so she can get around easily.
Any comments on what year to use in the newer VW vans for strength and
weight are apreciated also should we use an older VW van. Thanks again for
any help. I'm figuring the cost will be under 10k if we are frugal. I see
about 7k not including wiring but the 7k will get the zilla, pfc 50,
batteries, dc/dc & adapter. So motormount & wiring will be another 1000
including a contactor and circuit breaker. That leaves a couple of thousand
for my installation. I may be chewing a big bite here but I would be a good
learning experience for me.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Calvin King [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> A few weeks back I purchased a '81 Jet Electrica. It uses a Lynx
> sled. it is a 96V system using 16 - 6 volt Trojans (5, T605's and
> 11, T105's) It has a Curtis controller which I assume it is the
> original.
I'm not sure about the Electrica, but the Jet 007 (Omni, rather than
Lynx-based) came with a GE EV-1 SCR controller stock, so your Curtis may
be an upgrade someone performed after the fact.
Be careful with that pack. The T605 is a slightly smaller capacity
battery than the T105 and so it is likely that one or more of them could
be over-discharged before you notice anything unusual on a meter that
reads the entire pack voltage. It is unusual to have a mixed pack like
this, so it is also possible that the T605s are newer batteries that
were substituted for the weakest T105s in the original pack; in this
case, they might actually have more capacity than the remaining T105s.
The bottom line is that with a mixed pack you need to keep an eye on the
individual batteries and figure out which battery is your weakest
(lowest voltage after a drive, etc.) and use that battery's state of
charge to determine when to stop driving.
> The meters are not connected and I have yet to figure out how to
> trace the disconnect and reconnect.
I don't know how similar your Lynx is to the Jet 007, but the 007 had a
black box that looked at pack voltage (and possibly current) and
generated an output to drive a fuel guage meter. If the car originally
came with the SCR controller, then the black box for the meters was most
likely disconnected (and possibly removed) when the controller was
swapped out for the Curtis. The controller swap is fairly
straightforward (the Curtis comes with a wiring diagram), but the person
doing the swap would have had to have the Jet wiring diagram to figure
out how to retain the meter black box (or even to figure out that it
didn't have to be removed with the controller).
If your car has a separate voltmeter and ammeter for the traction system
(e.g. voltmeter that reads to ~120VDC or so and ammeter that reads to
+500A or so), then you don't need a black box to drive them; it is just
a matter of tracing out the wiring and figuring out where to reconnect
them.
The de-facto standard for monitoring the traction pack is the Cruising
Equipment E-Meter, now sold as the Link-10 by Xantrex. It only allows
you to view one parameter at a time, but also tracks Ah removed or put
into the pack and provides a reasonably useful fuel guage bargraph.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How many amps will 10kw put out at 120 to 144vdc? Could it get close to 100
amps? Then you'd have to push it with something. Maybe a 700 cc or larger
motorcycle motor? Small diesel? (biodiesel) Lawrence Rhodes..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:31:32 -0500 (CDT), "Michaela Merz"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Talking about generators: I am thinking about building a genset to deliver
about 10 to 15 KW. My question: Whould it make more sense to use a
commutator-type DC generator or would it make more sense to have a
rectifier bridge behind an AC generator?
It depends. A high frequency AC generator/bridge setup has the edge
in efficiency, though not by much. The AC generator can have a large
weight advantage if you go with a high frequency unit. If you use a
PM alternator or self-excited wound rotor alternator, then there are
no brushes to maintain. OTOH, the DC generator will withstand more
abuse. If you accidentally short the thing, most likely there will be
no damage while one is likely to burn out at least the diodes in the
AC setup.
For most folks, it boils down to cost. You use whatever you can get
the cheapest. For example, I noticed that Harbor Freight has the
Italian-made 60 hz alternators on sale right now. A 10kw head is a
little over $200. I used that head on my homemade diesel generator
and am quite satisfied with it. It is a brushless, self-excited
alternator.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Save yourself some effort, as this is one you'll lose. You insured
and paid the premium on whatever the base car was. That is, unless
you purchased an assigned value policy, sometimes called 'stated
value' insurance.
Depends. If the other person was at fault, then it's their
responsibility to make your loss whole, no?
I can see their insurance company trying to low-ball; that would be par
for the course. However if they hit you, they're responsible for fixing you.
CZ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok....How many amps will this unit put out at 120vdc to `144vdc when pushed
properly? Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
At 10:40 AM 10/18/2005, Neon John wrote:
the cheapest. For example, I noticed that Harbor Freight has the
Italian-made 60 hz alternators on sale right now. A 10kw head is a
little over $200. I used that head on my homemade diesel generator
and am quite satisfied with it. It is a brushless, self-excited
alternator.
Umm, I think you and I have a different definition of "a little".
I don't consider $299.99 to be "a little over $200". (usually, it's $399)
(Note: that is really rated at 7200W continuous, not 10KW)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich and everybody else:
Thanks for your information. One question though:
> What we all use is a 12 Kw 240 VAC 50 amp generator and a $3000 PFC50B....
> But of course that charger is non isolated.
Who would be 'we all' ?
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm kind of in a similar situation with insuring my conversion. Right now it's
covered as just the base vehicle. The insurance wants an appraisal, and they'll
insure it at the appraised value. We've done this before with classic muscle
cars, but I have no idea who to get to appraise my EV. Has anyone managed to
have this done?
Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> Save yourself some effort, as this
is one you'll lose. You insured
> and paid the premium on whatever the base car was. That is, unless
> you purchased an assigned value policy, sometimes called 'stated
> value' insurance.
Depends. If the other person was at fault, then it's their
responsibility to make your loss whole, no?
I can see their insurance company trying to low-ball; that would be par
for the course. However if they hit you, they're responsible for fixing you.
CZ
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:47 AM 18/10/05 -0400, John wrote:
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:26:17 +1100, James Massey
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I have ended up with (otherwise going in the rubbish, as illegal here) are
>a collection of twist-lock connectors. All of them are in-line pairs of
>plug and socket, 4 pairs of LEVITON (brand) 3-phase (4-pin) 20 amp 480V,
>NEMA L16-20 (written on the sockets, haven't got the plugs yet), and one
>pair of L5-15, 15A 125V single phase (3-pin).
The three phase sockets are about $25 new and the plugs about $18. The
single phase are a little less.
Now I'm intrigued. What is illegal about twist-lock connectors down
there?
Thanks John.
So I will have around $190US worth of connectors once I have all of them -
provided that someone has a use then will be worth swapping for a Heinemann
breaker or something.
They are not illegal to own - just that if they have no approvals for
Australia, and due to their design cannot get approval without extensive
modifications. Australian electrical regulations are some of the toughest
(if not the toughest) in the world. And mining equipment has a second level
of regulation on top of the normal regulations regarding strength and
waterproofing of connectors, earth leakage and stuff.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:36 AM 10/18/2005, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Ok....How many amps will this unit put out at 120vdc to `144vdc when
pushed properly?
10KW at 120VDC is 83A. at 144VDC is 69A.
Of course you won't quite get that much unless you use something like
a PFC50 charger (w/Buck Enhancement?).
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman
John Wayland
Rod Wilde
George Tilinsky
John Pullen
..and about dozzen other PFC50 owners with Generators.
Most any one at a Race track with a genset and a PFC charger.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
>
> Rich and everybody else:
>
> Thanks for your information. One question though:
>
> > What we all use is a 12 Kw 240 VAC 50 amp generator and a $3000
PFC50B....
> > But of course that charger is non isolated.
>
> Who would be 'we all' ?
>
> mm.
>
>
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I am assuming that you are feeding the charger with 240 VAC
Getting that much 120 AC is kind of foolish from the I2R losses side.
Yea on 120 to 144 DC the Buck50 is clearly needed.
Keep in mind that a charged 120 pack is 150 and a full 144 pack is 177.
So the charger does not spend much time at 120 flat. And I can only make 75
amps output....Lets put it this way, that's all I allow the charger to make.
More kinda eats up warrantee parts....
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
> At 11:36 AM 10/18/2005, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >Ok....How many amps will this unit put out at 120vdc to `144vdc when
> >pushed properly?
>
> 10KW at 120VDC is 83A. at 144VDC is 69A.
> Of course you won't quite get that much unless you use something like
> a PFC50 charger (w/Buck Enhancement?).
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
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On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:30:34 -0700 (PDT), Edward Ang
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>My wife crashed our EV conversion about a month ago.
>The other driver admitted to be at fault. But, the
>insurance company only estmated the market value to be
>at $2800 for an original ICE version. They based it
>on actual selling price in the area. We are trying to
>repair it instead of total it.
John DeArmond replied:
Save yourself some effort, as this is one you'll lose. You insured
and paid the premium on whatever the base car was. That is, unless
you purchased an assigned value policy, sometimes called 'stated
value' insurance.
I think John's reply assumes that *your* insurance is paying for the car.
This may depend on the state, but I believe that if the *other driver* is
at fault, they (and their insurance) are legally liable for the *actual
loss* to you.
Steve Gaarder
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Steve Gaarder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I think John's reply assumes that *your* insurance is paying
> for the car. This may depend on the state, but I believe that
> if the *other driver* is at fault, they (and their insurance)
> are legally liable for the *actual loss* to you.
I'm expect there may be variations from state to state, but suspect John
is correct, even though the other driver's insurance is paying your
loss. Their insurance company will look at what coverage *you* had
(i.e. what is the value that *you* placed on your vehicle) in
determining your loss.
Clearly, it would be unreasonable to expect someone else's insurance to
pay you a greater amount than you had the vehicle insured for.
My wife encountered this problem when her car was struck in a parking
lot; her car had a custom paint job and the insurance company would not
pay for anything more than a standard paint repair since she had not
purchased insurance coverage for the additional vlaue of the custom
paint job, even though the other driver was entirely at fault and their
insurance was paying for the repair.
Cheers,
Roger.
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I own a Siemens synchronous PM motor to be used as a generator
head, http://www.metricmind.com/images/acw-80-4.jpg
I works without or [better] with own inverter, then the
system's output does not depend on the RPM. 'Course water cooled and all
these goodies. Inverter is just put in continuous regen mode
and provides [isolated] output to the
pack. I think the motor is around 28kW rated or so; . No PFC
chargers needed. I don't have this built yet.
But of course my solutions aren't based on $/watt ratio,
so I'm not on the list Rich provided.
(That is not the same as saying I don't care of the cost,
it's just not my first priority).
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
Rich Rudman wrote:
Rich Rudman
John Wayland
Rod Wilde
George Tilinsky
John Pullen
..and about dozzen other PFC50 owners with Generators.
Most any one at a Race track with a genset and a PFC charger.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
Rich and everybody else:
Thanks for your information. One question though:
What we all use is a 12 Kw 240 VAC 50 amp generator and a $3000
PFC50B....
But of course that charger is non isolated.
Who would be 'we all' ?
mm.
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> Hold on there a Minute GT
> Liquid flow noises... at a couple of PSI??? are you nuts???
Ya, but that's besides the point... I was referring to the reservoir
noise rather than the fittings etc. I've heard it myself on others'
EVs. Think how fast 5 GPM going thru 3/8" tubing is, then shoot it
into a 1/2 full plastic milk bottle...
1 gallon = 231 in^3
Area of 3/8" circle is .11 in^2
231/.11/60 = 35 in/sec already at 1 GPM
At 5 GPM that's 175 ips or 14.5 FEET per second.
Now we know why them 5 GPM pumps have 3/4" fittings.
But then if you're adding a fan on the radiator...
> Take a look at the pump Ryan is using, it's a automotive cooling
system
> pump. It already meets the Vibe and voltage requirements, the GPM
is going
> to be better than what Otmar and I need
> >From the start.
Please post your findings, that pump could be a great find.
> The radiator... this part I need to have in hand or have some real
specs
> on... CFM and square inches of active fin area.
You can compare surface area of different shaped radiators of the
same type roughly by radiator LxWxD. Some have fins inside the tubing
to help get the heat out of the fluid, that will perform better for
their volume.
> The watt flow on some of the Over clocked CPUs kits is
> in the 200 to 400 watt range. That's a LOT of wast heat !
Criminy! I did not know that. Keep in mind though, the EV may need to
operate in well over 100F ambient near the asphalt (on some days).
Roland posted some extreme numbers from his car, like 140F under the
hood.
-GT
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--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Geek lilsters...
>
> Most of you know that I am in the design and test proccess of
building a 75Kw charger.
>
> I have to becarfull of what I say and show the whole world.
You better be careful what you TOUCH in that place, never mind SAY!
-GT
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At 05:20 PM 10/18/2005, you wrote:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Geek lilsters...
>
> Most of you know that I am in the design and test proccess of
building a 75Kw charger.
>
> I have to becarfull of what I say and show the whole world.
You better be careful what you TOUCH in that place, never mind SAY!
-GT
Based on personal experience I would guess if he grabs onto one of those
resistors, the words he uses will not be all that carefully chosen.:)
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
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> > Arthur W. Matteson wrote:
> > It almost seems that the relay Bill is talking about would be the
> > best suited, except I would expect that it's only rated for 12/32V.
> > All of the relays I run across have a higher AC rating than DC
> > rating. Is this because of arcing, List?
> > If it were me, Mark, I would use the RLY-351 linked below.
>
> Lee A. Hart wrote:
> No; this relay is only for switching 12vdc loads (32vdc maximum). It
> would be a very bad choice for a high voltage heater load!
So why?
Could you put four relays in series?
Is this similar to fuses as well?
- Arthur
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/awmatt
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This is cool! Wish I were there.
- Arthur
> Geek listers...
>
> Most of you know that I am in the design and test process of building a 75Kw
> charger.
>
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/HotNiCr1.JPG
>
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/75Kat20K.JPG
>
> I will get some shots of the water cooling system in support of The "Ryan's
> cooling Kit" Thread.
>
> Enjoy the watts at my expense.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
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FYI. I have invested in some EV books to further my knowledge beyond the 3
EVs that I have owned since 1998, but there is no substitute for more hands on
experience and expert opinions. I am still interested in converting my own
light weight, commuter car (35 - 45 MPH speeds). The 45 MPH is only for about
a
3 mile stretch and it is mostly flat. There are some hills in the 35 MPH
zone, but I can go as slow as 25 MPH without obstructing traffic on those
hills.
Based on all that and my EV-1B controller running at 84 V ....
Can anyone comment on the below motor choice my 01 Geo Metro:
www.surpluscenter.com Item# 10-1422
5 1/2 HP, 48 VDC
New GENERAL ELECTRIC. Series wound motor. Use for driving small vehicles,
pumps, compressors.
SPECIFICATIONS
48 VDC
5.6 HP
1200 RPM
113 amps
1 Hr. duty
Reversible
Shaft 1 1/4-14 tooth spline
10-1/2" diam. at flange x 15" long
Shpg. 108 lbs.
This seems pretty equivalent to the series motor that was in my 70 Saab
Sonett, which probably would have gone 45 MPH if I ran it at 84V. I think, but
I
am not sure. 5.5 HP for 1 hour seems like approximately the running load of
the car at 45 MPH. Do you think this motor can pull 30 HP instantaneous for
acceleration without self destructing? If I mistreat the motor like this, what
type of life should I expect - 10,000 miles? That would be OK with me, because
that is all I would want out of the car. How would this compare in
performance and price to a used ADC 6.7" motor - if I could find one? I'd
prefer to go
with known technology, but the used market is pretty scarce right now. Given
the risk of the car not working or going way over my budget, I am not willing
to splurge for a new ADC motor at this time. If the car is successful, I
intend to later upgrade it to a more advanced controller (144 V, 600 A) and 8"
ADC motor (of course this will require a new adapter, etc.)
Thanks again for all your help,
Steve
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Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I hate to put any more in back because of weight distribution.
It's rear wheel drive isn't it? ;)
Have any pics of all the current battery placements and places where
there is still room(interior)?
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but heavy as all get out. Most car engines weigh close to 600 pounds with
all the crap on them. Maybe if you used a water cooled motorcycle motor
that would be less weight.
-----Original Message-----
From: John G. Lussmyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 2:08 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
At 11:06 AM 10/18/2005, Danny Miller wrote:
>I'm a little confused on the concept. These gensets are usually
>inefficient, bad emissions, and quite noisy. While you may not need
>to use the genset within its electric range, using it would negate
>all the benefits of electric vehicles, in fact it should be far
>worse than the original engine on those 3 fronts.
Depends on what you use for a motor. If you use a modern car engine
with all the Pollution Controls intact, it would make a nice quiet
efficient clean generator.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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One more link:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=43060
http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/43000-43999/43060.PDF
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