EV Digest 4841
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: window defrost, radiant heat efficiency
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Low loss lubricant for EV gearbox
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Honda Fuel Cell Concept with Home H2 Refueling
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: window defrost, radiant heat efficiency
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Emeter Test
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: clutchless vw
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Emeter Test
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: On getting back the EV grin
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Used UPS battery questions
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Zombie Final Runs of the Season
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: window defrost
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re:Current Eliminator News
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: clutchless vw
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: window defrost
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Current Eliminator News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) 52 mile commute?
by "blond_ambition777" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Current Eliminator News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: 52 miles range
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mark,
The braking system has been modified with Force 10 Supertwin 2-piston caliper,
which is design for 1969 to 1979 GM vehicles which you can get from Jeg's.
There is no problem in stopping, even on glare ice! The tire tread pattern is
design for ice and hard pack snow. The tires allow about 100 lbs. per square
inch to the pavement. Some standard vehicles are as low as 10 lbs per sq.in.
which provides no traction on ice.
This is not just a EV to haul one or two persons around. I built a new house
and I haul all my building materials in it, except for the roof rafters and
concrete. The porcelain floor tile weigh 2000 lbs per trip!! Just jack up the
suspension air pressure to level the car.
Its look like you have your heating system engineer out for your needs.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Hanson<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: window defrost, radiant heat efficiency
Hi Roland etc.
Wow that's quite an engineering feat, sounds like a tank, 30ea T-145
batteries 2100lbs of battery weight, I wonder how it handles/stops though.
I don't think I could afford to charge something similar at my 12.66c per
kWh however.
Anyway, the most efficient way to warm electrically is with radiant heat
such as the 15" Fostoria replacement 750W quartz enclosed nichrome coil
tubes I found at Northern Tool yesterday for $10 each. I'm mounting one
between the dash/windshield with a parabolic reflector made out of U shaped
bent aluminum chrome painted (2" x 15" area). At 72V in my buggy (9ea 8V
batts) it will be about 300W and I'll also mount one down below for radiant
floor heat and put on a Fet switch to the main accessory contactor.
I did this before in my cheese wedge a few (well about 25 years) ago when
there was no heater core/blower assembly already in the vehicle. These
Fostoria type heaters are the kind used at ski resort ticket windows where
you get your lift tickets and produce an effective warmth 3X more than
convection (blowing) heaters. (Heating electrically though is 4X less
efficient than other means per dollar spent but hey, it's convenient in an
EV).
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: window defrost
> Hello Mike,
>
> My EV is in the EV Album
>
> To get to it just type using google:
>
> Roland Wiench 1977 El Camino Electro I
>
> You will see the layout of the accessory drive system, the Zilla
controller that is under the gray box on the firewall.
>
> Everything is so tight, that it's hard to see the cooling system for the
Zilla. The motor which was a GE 11 inch is being replace with a Warp of
equal size is a double shaft, where the pilot shaft couples to a accessory
drive using a Dodge Spline Flex coupler.
>
> The accessory drive is self supporting which is mounted on 4 donut engine
mounts. A drive shaft is extended from the motor pilot shaft threw three
face bearings and extends out the from of the accessory support. A belt
drive is mounted on this drive shaft which than powers a standard power
steering, the alternator/inverter, air condition pump and a GMC diesel
vacuum pump that does not go pop pop pop.
>
> Under the top mounting plate that normally would hold a engine radiator,
is the heater hot water fill tank. Below that on the platform that the
radiator would set on, is the water heater and pumps. The heater lines stay
low going to the fire wall and goes up behind the gray motor controller
enclosure.
>
> You will also see two Dayton fans with a 6 inch air filter, one mounted on
the motor controller enclosure and one on the brush cover on the GE motor.
>
> On the Warp motor, which has a internal fan, I mounted this on the screen
brush cover using a curved steel plate that two steel tabs that extends down
the face of the motor which is bolted to two 5/16 bolts.
>
> Removing the motor, only requires it to be remove out the bottom. Do not
have to remove any of the items you see in the motor bay.
>
> The batteries are Trojan T-145's 6 volt 260 AH 800 amp. The picture
shows shows a low profile stud mounts. I since had that modified with
standard taper battery post. The stud mounting could not handle the torque
values that was specific. Too much shrink back after each run. My next
batteries are going to be a AGM type in the same AH range that will have
brass thread bolt connections.
>
> The batteries enclosures are 1/4 inch thick fiberglass boxes that is epoxy
coated with the same type of coating that is used on showers and sinks. The
enclosure in front of the battery box is also made out of the same
fiberglass sheets held the old battery charger which was rated at 100 amp,
that took up the whole area which is 15 inches wide by 12 inches high by 54
inch long.
>
> This was replace with a PFC-50B which is all in the left side where you
see the DC and AC meters. These meters were move to the right compartment,
that now have two 400 amp safety contactors that isolated the batteries from
the controller while the battery is being charge. A AC contactor is on the
AC power input to the charger. The input plug which is under the hinge
license plate activates the AC contactor and turns off 12 volt ignition
control to the controller. This is so that you cannot drive off without
unplugging the power plug.
>
> The Batteries, Charger and related circuits are completely isolated from
the frame of the vehicle by being in a fiberglass enclosures. The frame of
the vehicle is not AC grounded, only the charger housing is.
>
> When you charge a battery pack while the frame is ground, you can read the
full charging voltage from any one battery to a ground. So if you are using
a ground vehicle frame, DO NOT LEAN AGAINST THE VEHICLE AND TOUCH ANY OF THE
BATTERY CONNECTIONS WHILE ITS CHARGING.
>
> There is also a 120 VAC Dayton 150 CFM fan in the charger compartment that
brings in outside cooling air. This also pressurized this compartment. The
battery compartment has a 2 inch diameter x 1/4 inch thick flexible PVC pipe
that brings in filter air from the outside of the vehicle. Its also have
another 2 inch flex PVC pipe that is connected to a totally enclose plastic
100 CFM fan that exhaust the battery box. This brings in replacement oxygen
that mixes with the hydrogen of the battery so you do not have so much flow
loss. I only have to add about 3 gallons of water every six months. This
air exchange technique was subjest to me by the HydroCap Company.
>
> Also the batteries are setting on a bed of 1 inch thick baking soda which
keeps the batteries clean, no weeping, no voltage tracking and the battery
boxes surfaces clean. If you look at the white surfaces of this enclosure,
these surfaces never was clean since the batteries were put in three years
ago.
>
> When I bought these batteries right from the Trojan Company, I specified a
balance set of 30 each of not more than 0.01 difference between all
batteries. They set me a pallet load of 50 not more than 2-weeks of the
manufacturer date, so I can do a final adjustment of the best 30 batteries.
>
> Today, there are 26 batteries that are still in with 0.01 V. of each other
and the other four are 0.02 V. of each other. I still don't have to install
a battery regulators to balance them. According to Trojan these type of
batteries can get out of balance as much as 0.3 Volts before you should
balance them.
>
> You will note the all the batteries are in the center of the EV. The
vehicle has Mark and Williams 2.5 inch axles with 3 inch inner and outer
roller bearings on the axils. The suspension is by Air Ride which can
adjust the height from 8 inches to 2 inches off the ground. The car is
shown level at 4 inches.
>
> The dash plate instruments has indications for Battery Ampere and Voltage,
Motor Ampere and Voltage, A Emeter that displays any electrical function you
want, Motor Temperature, Heat Sink Temperature, Controller Air Temperature,
Zilla coolant water temperature, Under hood temperature, Vacuum at the
vacuum pump and vacuum after the reservoir. Air suspension pressure, Time
Clocks, one for time of day, one for motor on time, one for controller on
time and one for away time. Away time means the amount of time the EV is
away from my home and back again.
>
> Then there is a array of control switches, that are back up circuits, if
one fails while you are driving. There is fuse indicators that show if
there is a fuse blown and where a fault is in a circuit.
>
> There is also emergency shut down switches with a backup emergency shut
down switch. A alarm system is use where if the operator does not perform
the startup and programming right, it will shut down the system that will
run a siren, ring bells, flash lights and play load music.
>
> The dash plates fold down as a group exposing a large industrial set screw
terminal blocks that are five feet long. There are identical terminal
blocks which are shorter in water proof cast aluminum boxes you see in the
motor bay. Also another terminal block in the charger compartment.
>
> There is a large wireway that comes from the battery charger compartment
to the motor bay which is below the custom console that also have removable
access plates. All control wires are shielded and than place in another
shielded jacket cable. The internal shielded are isolated or sometime
floating and the outer shields are only ground at one end. This is so you
do not transmitted a signal from one end to the other or induce a power
circuit into this control wires.
>
> If you weigh the EV at each wheel, than that wheel specifications should
be rated for that weight. My wheels are rated for 3500 lbs thrust as well
the axle points are rated for 4000 lbs thrust. The tires are rated for 2600
lbs at 65 PSI.
> Most of the standard wheel are rated for only 1000 to 1500 lbs. I have
seen a lot of these brake when hitting a pot hole with the new thin wall
tires.
>
> To hold the heat in the car longer, while its park outside. I insulated
the battery box with two layers of blue foam with a 4 inch air space to the
side beds of the pickup box. All this foam is then cover with marine nylon
carpet.
>
> The interior is also insulated with 2 inches of soft upholstery blue foam
under the carports and up the firewall and back section. The doors interior
are spray with a white rubber insulated compound and a 1 inch soft foam is
under the door panels.
>
> The overall gear ratios in 1st gear is about 19.5:1 and 2nd gear is 13.5:1
which is most of my town driving of 10 to 30 mph for several 1/2 to 2 miles
stops per day. I only charge this 260 AH battery about every 4 days or
until its gets down to 50%. According to UVE's Vehicle Calculator, I should
be able to go 94 miles at 20 mph which is most of my average city driving.
I think this would take the batteries down to 10% of which I will not do.
The maximum I drive it is down to 50% which one time I was able to squeeze
50 miles out of it going on a lot of downhill runs on the way home which one
downhill was over 3 miles without any battery power. Battery amperes was 0
amperes while driving all the accessories!!!
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mike golub<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To:
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 5:16 PM
> Subject: Re: window defrost
>
>
> Hi there again,
>
> I'm in the process of converting a 1986 Toyota 4wd
> pickup. I'm going to use 120v and a 9" warP motor.
>
> Where can I get more information about your vehicle.
> thanks
> Michael
> Fairbanks, AK
>
> --- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: mike golub<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>
> > To:
> >
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 11:28 AM
> > Subject: window defrost
> >
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone had come up with a
> > system
> > that would defrost the front window with 120 v ac
> > at
> > the mains, before leaving home or work, and then
> > switching to battery mode.
> >
> > What is the most efficient way to do this?
> >
> > I'm not too worried about driving around at -20F
> > here
> > in Fairbanks, AK with no heat (I have warm
> > clothes) I
> > just worried about the windshield.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Hello Mike,
> >
> > This is exactly what I do, is preheat the
> > windshield and the interior of my EV about 15
> > minutes before I leave. I live in Great Falls,
> > Montana where it can get to 40 below.
> >
> > I just love driving in the winter with my EV. Its
> > nice and warm and can push through over 1 foot of
> > snow. Its not a baby buggy EV that cannot run in
> > the rain, when its hot, when is cold, in high wind,
> > or in deep snow. Can climb steep icy hills where a
> > lot of ICE vehicles are slipping and sliding. Can
> > jump my co-workers cars, with my heavy duty 12-15
> > volt 145 amps rotating alternator/inverter/battery
> > system.
> >
> > To do this, the heaters work off 120 VAC that has
> > a branch 20 amp circuit breakers coming of the main
> > VAC power that is plug into the EV. I have two 20
> > amp circuits that feed a 2000 watt hot water system
> > and two 640 and 860 watt under dash heaters.
> >
> > In 15 minutes or less, it will heat up the
> > interior to over 80 degrees and heat the water that
> > is used in the existing heater core. I used a dash
> > mounted transfer switch that can select the
> > commercial power or a on board 120 VAC 7000 Watt
> > inverter system which only works when the motor is
> > turning a combination alternator/inverter unit.
> >
> > Could also used a DC-AC inverter that runs off the
> > batteries. I prefer the rotating
> > alternator/inverter type, because on coast down and
> > while the motor is still turning, it still provides
> > power without any battery power. Its also gives me
> > a mechanical REGEN on long down hill icy hills.
> >
> > The unit I'm using if a Dynamote unit from
> > Electronic Power House, 1200 West Nickerson, Seattle
> > WA 98119. 1-800-426-2838. In Alaska, call (206)
> > 282-1000. (these phone numbers may be dated).
> >
> > These units are heavy duty units that are normally
> > used in large boats. You can get them in 500 to 3600
> > watts too that runs off a lower DC voltage.
> >
> > The 2000 watt @ 120 VAC heater is a heavy duty
> > engine heater normally used for Semi's. It is about
> > 3 inches in diameter and 24 inches long which is
> > made out of stainless steel. Its has a built in
> > thermostat. I used a standard brass 120 volt water
> > pump that I pick up from a Plumbing and Heating
> > Supply house. The pump is a 1 gallon per minute
> > type which is only 4 inches square. Its best not to
> > pump faster than that otherwise its not in the loop
> > long enough for heating and to dissipate the heat.
> > Floor radiate heat has about 1-gallon per minute
> > rating.
> >
> > There is no hot water radiator as you would have
> > for a engine, but I used just the tank part that you
> > can get from a radiator shop. They take a blank
> > tank, and add the pressure cap and outlets of any
> > size you want. I had them install brass threaded
> > pipe hub connectors in a copper tank.
> >
> > I used Aeroquip connectors on the standard hot
> > water hoses. There is no band clamps to install
> > these connectors, except used a industrial T-bolt
> > band clamp on the heater core stub outs.
> >
> > In using a hot water system, the tank and the
> > hoses, core, pumps, and heaters hold about 2 gallons
> > of water that is mix with 70% anti-freeze which is
> > good to 84 F. below.
> >
> > The 2000 watt heater, pump, tank, and hoses are
> > all double insulated with that good high dense Air
> > Condition pipe foam. After I preheat the water to
> > about 160 degrees, it will retain that heat in this
> > system even after setting in -40 below zero for two
> > hours. I was be able to defrost the windshield with
> > out any additional on board power. Only have to turn
> > on one under dash heater for 5 to 10 minutes on the
> > driver side, or it will make me too warm.
> >
> > If you already have a heater core that works off
> > the main battery pack, you still could add the under
> > dash heaters or sometimes call cab heaters to
> > prewarm the cab. I have rework the heater duct
> > system, so there is no outside air coming through
> > the heater core and just circulate the inside the
> > heated air thru the windshield ducts which starts to
> > defrost the windshield. When its above 0 degrees, I
> > find that only one under dash heater running for 15
> > minutes will defrost the everything.
> >
> > Living in the north, I cannot stand to be in
> > temperatures over 65 degrees to long. It is still
> > T-shirt weather at 30 degrees.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home
> > page!
> >
> >
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoocom/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>>>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
>
http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/<http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
(with the disclaimer that I haven't done any serious hotrodding in 10
years or so, so the product might not be the same.). Yes. It comes
in a little squeeze tube, maybe 3-4 ounces. Not enough volume to
affect the fluid level.
I've never tried the stuff in a transaxle. This stuff works by
chemically bonding to the load bearing surfaces and making a low
friction coating. There is a possibility that it could reduce the
effectiveness of the synchronizers in the transmission, making
shifting harder. That may or may not be a problem, depending on
whether you shift while underway but it's something to think about.
I'd proceed carefully. While the EP stuff won't ruin the
transmission, it will take a while to wear off the synchronizers after
you flush it out in the event it causes problems. One of the lubes
others have recommended might be a better option for a transaxle.
John
On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:19:41 +1000, "djsharpe"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Is this added to the mass of oil? My ev uses the same oil for the gears
>as well as the differential.
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>>
>>> . I add a package of extreme pressure lube to accommodate the
>>> sliding contact between the ring and pinion. > >
>>
>>
>>John, What kind of extreme preasure lube do you use?
>>
>
>I used the GM product for their limited slip differentials. It came
>in a little squeeze tube. I understand it can be had now from places
>like NAPA.
>
>John
>---
>John De Armond
>See my website for my current email address
>http://www.johngsbbq.com
>Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
A person could buy a hydrogen generator. Consider this the battery
charger except this costs in the several thousand dollar range:
It's great that one "Could" buy an electrolizer, but Honda is using
NG, so they are simply switching from one FF to another form of FF,
no good in the long run. But technicall it's potentially renewable.
Not only do you need the hydrogen generator, you need a storage
tank(in addition to the one in the car). You also need a pump.
What's the price on a 10,000 PSI pump anyways?
Actually "350 atmosphere [standard] = 5,143 pound/square inch [absolute]"
So it sounds like they have switched to Metal-Hydride tanks, I
wonder if they are using that internal watter cooling trick to
keep refueling times below a few hours, or if since they are
refueling at home in the convienience of your own garauge with
NG it doesn't matter how long it takes...
... Humm, Haven't I heard something like that before somewhere???
"To increase the driving range, Honda engineers chose not to
increase storage tank pressure, but to use a newly-developed
hydrogen absorption material that doubles the capacity of
the tank to 5 kg of hydrogen at 350 atmospheres. With the
new material, the tanks supply enough hydrogen to extend
the cruising range to 560 kilometers (350 miles)—exceeding
the DOE’s range target for 2010.
Again, by contrast, the current FCX 2005 model offers
a range of 190 miles."
How about the price on those tanks(need two)?
Umm, not cheap, I have a simple ~$300 20Liter tank, no longer listed...
http://www.fuelcellstore.com/cgi-bin/fuelweb/view=NavPage/cat=5
I wonder what the upper limit on output is with a fuel cell?
100kW it sounds like...
http://www.fuelcellstore.com/cgi-bin/fuelweb/view=NavPage/cat=27
1kW - $10K
1kW - $46K
2kW - $64K
2kW - $17K
up to 50kW Custom Stacks - $Custom
Based on their 0.5kW stack at $10K, 5kW=$100K, 50kW=$1,000K
Of course I guess you get a little discount at that size...
Now if we just had some low cost lithium batteries to lighten the load
and extend the range... How about those charge times though?
Does lithium recharge faster then lead? Will the price be competitive
with lead this year or next?
Well, 18650's are down below $500/kWh, I believe...
Sony has some high rate 20C cells and Toshiba has tested some 50C cells
which can be charged to 80% in 60 seconds, of course you need a few of
Rich's new 75kW chargers and a big fat grid connection to do that...
The part I liked is the 80kW front and 25+25kW rear 3phase BLDC Pancake
motors.
Sure would be nice to get a pair of those in the A** end of an Insight!
Nix the million
dollar fuel cell stack, the $25K Hydride tanks, and the NG charger. And
instead just
spend the $25K on Lithium batteries and call yourself a millionare for
saving so much.
Not to mention the 2-4 times greater energy effeciency, $1Mil buys lots
of Wind/PV.
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
I looked at northern tools and couldn't find the coil tubes. Do you have a link
or more info on how to find them at the web site?
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Anyway, the most efficient way to warm electrically is with radiant heat
> such as the 15" Fostoria replacement 750W quartz enclosed nichrome coil
> tubes I found at Northern Tool yesterday for $10 each. I'm mounting one
> between the dash/windshield with a parabolic reflector made out of U shaped
> bent aluminum chrome painted (2" x 15" area). At 72V in my buggy (9ea 8V
> batts) it will be about 300W and I'll also mount one down below for radiant
> floor heat and put on a Fet switch to the main accessory contactor.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lynn,
The manual is downloaded from xantrex's site and according to the diagram that
I have, on page 13, what I said is exactly what the diagram shows.
It also shows that the emeter is being powered from the same pack that it is
testing, so according to xantrex that is fine to do. In fact anybody that uses
an emeter or link 1000 in a PV system is using the same battery power to
measure the battery current.
If you look at pate 15, you will see that I have used almost work for word the
same verbiage as they did.
If you look closely at the words you are saying the same thing that I am, just
with different words. If you think differently, please tell me specifically
where I have erred...
Thank you
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 7:33 AM
Subject: RE: Emeter Test
> Please be sure to look at the wiring diagram in the manual. The manual
> is available from the xantrex web site.
>
> My emeter wires as follows
>
> Pin 1: load side of shunt and negative 12V power. If you are powering
> off the same battery you are using for load testing this can be a
> problem.
> Pin 2 load side of shunt for current sense
> Pin 3 battery side of shunt
> Pin 4 positive pack voltage
> Pin 5 positive meter voltage
>
> Best bet is to follow the wiring diagram in the manual.
>
> Lynn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Rush
> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 11:37 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Emeter Test
>
>
> Hi
>
> I want to test my emeter but my pack is not set up, so I can test it by
> just hooking up to a 12 v and follow the instructions as per the manual
> for PV hookup.
>
> 1) Black from terminal 1 to load side, big bolt, of shunt
> 2) Green (part of twisted pair) from terminal 2 to load side, small
> screw, of shunt.
> 3) Orange (part of twisted pair) from terminal 3 to small screw on
> Battery side of shunt
> 4) Blue wire from terminal 4 thru 2 amp fuse (within 7" of battery) to
> battery pos.
> 5) Red wire from terminal 5 thru 2 amp fuse (within 7" of battery) to
> batter neg.
>
> After all wiring is complete, then I insert blue wire (-) fuse and then
> red wire (+) fuse.
>
> To disconnect I do the reverse.
>
> I would assume that if the light/battery bar and quick reference volts,
> amps, amphrs, and time light up, then all the advanced functions work
> also.
>
> Since I am not going to pull any load, all I want to do is test the
> emeter, I can use small gauge wire, 10 or 12.
>
> Sorry to ask this but I want to make sure the connection sequence is
> correct so I don't blow the emeter.
>
> So when I go to hook this up on my EV with the battery pack I can make a
> connector with the twisted pair, prescaler and dc/dc converter included
> in the connector, connect them and then put in the fuses. I think Joe
> Smalley said that he does this with several cars he monitors.
>
> Thanks
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
john [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> A friend wants me to build her a VW bug conversion. Problem
> is she has one leg in a brace and can't use the clutch. I
> know she could go clutchless and put into gear before taking
> off but I was wondering if a set up like my Citicar would
> work on a VW? Using contactors for forward and reverse? Any
> thoughts would be welcomed.
One option is to convert an "auto-stick" model. The auto-stick was a
manual tranny with a vacuum motor to automatically operate the clutch.
If you can't locate an original autostick tranny, you could certainly
rig up an electric or vacuum-operated mechanism to disengage the clutch
when a button on the shifter is pressed.
Alternatively, depending on what your friend's needs are from the car
(range, speed), you could convert it using a modern NEV-style
drivetrain: 72V pack, sep-ex motor, Curtis 1244 or 1274 sep-ex
controller. The sep-ex motor/controller would provide electric
(contactorless) forward/reverse and regen braking. Or, upgrade to a
Zapi 96V/500A sep-ex controller for a bit more speed and power.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The manual is downloaded from xantrex's site and according to
> the diagram that I have, on page 13, what I said is exactly
> what the diagram shows.
Nope. Almost.
Lynn wrote:
> > My emeter wires as follows
> >
> > Pin 1: load side of shunt and negative 12V power. If you
> > are powering off the same battery you are using for load
> > testing this can be a problem.
> > Pin 2 load side of shunt for current sense
> > Pin 3 battery side of shunt
> > Pin 4 positive pack voltage
> > Pin 5 positive meter voltage
You wrote:
> > 1) Black from terminal 1 to load side, big bolt, of shunt
> > 2) Green (part of twisted pair) from terminal 2 to load side, small
> > screw, of shunt.
> > 3) Orange (part of twisted pair) from terminal 3 to small screw on
> > Battery side of shunt
> > 4) Blue wire from terminal 4 thru 2 amp fuse (within 7" of
> > battery) to battery pos.
> > 5) Red wire from terminal 5 thru 2 amp fuse (within 7" of
> > battery) to batter neg.
Notice that you wrote that you were going to connect pin 5 (E-Meter
power) to battery *negative*.
A typo, I'm sure, but not what you want to do. ;^>
Otherwise, what you wrote is fine. There is no problem powering the
E-meter directly from the battery being monitored other than ensuring
that the voltage remains in the appropriate range for the E-Meter. This
means the E-Meter supply voltage must remain above 9V and below 40V.
Some on the list have reported that they believe they've fried their
meters by providing them with a supply voltage near, but under, the 40V
spec in the manual, so you may want to err on the side of caution and
keep the supply voltage below 36V to be safe.
All that you need to connect to play with the E-Meter is the +/- supply
connections (pin 1 & 5). The meter will come to life and you can fool
with the programmable functions, etc. Connect pin 4 (voltage sense) to
your supply +ve and the meter will now display the supply voltage (you
can make/break this connection while the meter is powered without risk
of damage). Add the shunt connections and you are set to monitor
current as well.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> This brings up another issue: if the Ranger can handle
> commute duties, my son wants me to ditch the beater Saturn I
> currently use (ugly, but runs like a top, gets ~36mpg and
> passed the stricter Smog II test for N.Cal) and replace it
> with an older VW bug. The bug wouldn't get many miles of use,
> but I shudder at the pollution output from a car that
> predates emission controls! Driving the EV won't make up for
> the emissions from a bug, which probably puts out more than a
> dozen ICE Rangers!
You'd be surprised. I used to drive a '70 Type 2 with 1600cc dual-port
Beetle engine, and it was subject to regular smog testing. When I
inherited the '87 Suzuki Forsa (aka Chevy Sprint) from a friend for my
EV conversion, I also inherited their smog test results. Surprisingly,
the VW's test results indicated that it would have passed the criteria
for the '87 Sprint (complete with catalytic convertor and smog
controls).
> So, is there *any* way to make an air-cooled bug less
> polluting?
I don't know if there are any CNG kits for the Beetle engine, but there
were LPG conversions.
Upgrading the points-type distributor to an electronic pick-up type
and/or adding an aftermarket ignition coil/control for better spark can
help.
Also, late model Beetles had fuel injection. My expereince is entirely
with carbuerated Beetles, so I can't say how problematic the fuel
injection is or if there was much emissions improvement.
And, of course, there are all sorts of engine swap possibilities. A
friend stuffed a 350 Chevy into his, but more sane options include
swapping the aircooled engine for a water-cooled Rabbit engine. This
would be less work than a full EV conversion since you don't have to
build battery boxes, etc.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim - I use these. A pack at 216 volts. I charge using just a 3.5KVA Tranny
and a bridge rect. They are 168A/H and I use a tapping on the transformer to
start them off at about 15 Amps then the charge tapers off to about 7 Amps.
I then change tappings to bring up the charge current to about 12 amps,
which then tapers off to a float charge of about 3-4 amps after 10hrs
depending on the state of charge of the cells at the end of the day.
My cells at the moment are dienasties (Dynasty) and I have two strings of
18 in parallel (not good the parallel bit). I am about to replace them with
some Ex UPS Yuasas. 160-6 - I have 36 of them and they cost me about $10 a
piece.
I am planning to improve the charger - putting a choke and capacitor filter
would help reduce the ripple - but I am a serious "newbie" and advice is
welcome, providing I don't spend too much on seriously over "computered"
battery chargers. Protection timers and voltage sensing coupled with
voltage control by way of transformer tapping changes has given 5yrs out of
this first set of EX UPS cells although most of this was with the previous
owner.
Hope this helps a bit.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 1:30 AM
Subject: Used UPS battery questions
> I have a possibility of obtaining a batch of Uninterruptible Power Supply
> batteries and would like advice. These are 6V 180Ahr Exide/Marathon
"6V180"
> sealed lead-acid batteries, with copper alloy top terminals (a bolt goes
> down into the center of the terminal), and they weigh 85 lbs each. They
are
> now about five years old, and although a ten year service life is
> advertised, I expect the company will replace them in the next few years.
> Here are my questions:
>
> 1. Are "older" batteries from UPS use likely to be of value for EVs? I
> would think that ANY battery would be useful, especially for battricidal
new
> users.
> 2. Will the top terminal be a problem for EV use? I need 48 miles range at
> 40-55 mph (through lots of low hills), and expect to build an E-Woody
style
> three-wheel tadpole design with a forklift hydraulic motor and a belt
drive.
> 3. If I were to get a batch of these batteries, could (should) I store
them
> for any length of time? If so, I know I would need to ensure that they
were
> charged, but would I need to keep them above a certain temperature?
Winters
> here get down to about zero or so - sometimes lower.
> 4. To charge them, would I need to get a "real" charger, or could I get by
> with a rewound monster transformer and assorted rectifiers, a meter and a
> wristwatch?
> 5. Would there be any market for these among other EV enthusiasts? I need
to
> promote a changer and a controller, and perhaps someone might be
interested
> in swapping. I am not asking for bids, but rather "Sounds plausible" or
> "Forget it". I'm in the Blue Ridge Mountains near the VA-NC border.
> 6. Using a 36-volt forkift hydraulics motor, how high in voltage should
one
> go? I plan on having forced air cooling and a termperature sensor, but I
am
> not sure where my limits might be... and if I should try for, say, 120v in
> one string or 72 using two?
> 7. How much would you expect to have to pay for each if you had to buy
them
> from the company (or from the guy vendor who expects to get something at
the
> recycle yard)? If God answers my prayers, I might get them for the
> hauling... but He also might want me to start saving now.
> 8. I've already ensured that I can get rid of them through a local salvage
> yard if I need to bail out. What else I need to know?
>
> Thanks for your patience with me - all advice and comments are
> elcome! -Tim
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/143 - Release Date: 19/10/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
May the drag racing gods bless the Plasma Boy Racing Team with sticky tires
and lightning quick runs :^D
Good Luck!
Roy
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:21 PM, Roland Wiench wrote:
To get to it just type using google:
Roland Wiench 1977 El Camino Electro I
Found it at: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/470.html
Wow, that's quite the dash! Not sure what everything does/is but the
engine compartment looks very impressive.
You show a conversion cost of $88.5k (so far). Is that a typo?
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's one hell of an accomplishment even if it was an ice vehicle.
Last time I checked, Current Eliminator wasn't an ICE vehicle. 8^)
http://austinev.org/evalbum/092.html
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<<One option is to convert an "auto-stick" model. The auto-stick was a
manual tranny with a vacuum motor to automatically operate the clutch.>>
That would be quite lossy, as that model used a torque converter along with the
clutch.
<<If you can't locate an original autostick tranny, you could certainly
rig up an electric or vacuum-operated mechanism to disengage the clutch
when a button on the shifter is pressed.>>
That could work with alot of effort.
If this thing had a decent controller, batteries etc, the driver could spend
most of the time in 2nd gear, with an occasional shift to 4th.
A clutchless manual trans might be worth exploring...
2 of the 3 vw conversions I have been involved with have been clutchless and
worked just fine if driven carefully.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Found it at: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/470.html
>
> Wow, that's quite the dash! Not sure what everything does/is but the
> engine compartment looks very impressive.
>
Reminds me of something I heard in my college years: "There are engineers and
there are über-engineers".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> > That's one hell of an accomplishment even if it was an ice vehicle.
>
> Last time I checked, Current Eliminator wasn't an ICE vehicle. 8^)
>
> http://austinev.org/evalbum/092.html
>
You do know he meant even if racing with an ICE, it would still have been "one
hell of an accomplishment", right? Let's not start splitting grammatical hairs.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Russell,
I saw your posting today. I just wanted to reiterate that the 52
miles range that Blue Sky Motors quoted only means that that is what
we achieved on a one time test (there is no warranty express or
implied). If you are relying on that 52 miles range for your
commute, you will be disappointed in that Lead Acid trucks were
designed for operation for approximately 30 mile commutes on a daily
basis with occational deeper discharges (for long life). If you need
50+ miles for your daily commute, then this is may not the vehicle
for you.
I wanted to bring this to your attention because you may not be used
to the recommended operating procedures for a lead acid truck. It is
different from the NiMH truck which is what you may have been used to
in the past. If you can place chargers at either end and restrict
the distance on the vehicle to about 30 miles at any one time then
you will be fine.
If you have any questions about the capabilities of the truck, give
me a call. We want you to be happy in your truck and just want to
make sure that it really does meet your long term needs.
Respectfully yours,
Kitty Rodden
Blue Sky Motors
916-929-7508
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 10/21/05 10:57:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< > That's one hell of an accomplishment even if it was an ice vehicle.
Last time I checked, Current Eliminator wasn't an ICE vehicle. 8^)
http://austinev.org/evalbum/092.html
>>
Its not an ICE vech. just competing against them. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> Russell,
>
> I saw your posting today. I just wanted to reiterate that the 52
> miles range that Blue Sky Motors quoted only means that that is what
> we achieved on a one time test (there is no warranty express or
> implied). If you are relying on that 52 miles range for your
> commute, you will be disappointed in that Lead Acid trucks were
> designed for operation for approximately 30 mile commutes on a daily
> basis with occational deeper discharges (for long life). If you need
> 50+ miles for your daily commute, then this is may not the vehicle
> for you.
>
> I wanted to bring this to your attention because you may not be used
> to the recommended operating procedures for a lead acid truck. It is
> different from the NiMH truck which is what you may have been used to
> in the past. If you can place chargers at either end and restrict
> the distance on the vehicle to about 30 miles at any one time then
> you will be fine.
>
> If you have any questions about the capabilities of the truck, give
> me a call. We want you to be happy in your truck and just want to
> make sure that it really does meet your long term needs.
>
> Respectfully yours,
>
> Kitty Rodden
> Blue Sky Motors
> 916-929-7508
>
Thanks, Kitty - I will see what I can convince my employer, but if I can't get
an Avcon installed, I can still use my beater and replace my wife's car with
the Ranger. I had consistantly gotten over 70 miles range from the NiMH, so it
is true that the lead version will take some adjusting; since I work nights, I
could probably get away with 45mph on I-80, but this might not be
enough...still, I do know how to get the maximum range from an EV!
P.S.- Davis is 20 miles from me and has Avcons, so I'll probably drive it home!
--- End Message ---
