EV Digest 4848
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Dreaming
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: EV parts on EBay
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: The "range issue"
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: DC-DC Upconverter Reqd
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: OT: LEDs Will Replace "everything!"
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) New global map for EVers
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Dreaming
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: wallmart heater cores
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: window defrost, radiant heat efficiency
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: wallmart heater cores, comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: wallmart heater cores
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: The "range issue"
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: window defrost, radiant heat efficiency
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: OT: LEDs Will Replace "everything!"
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: clutchless vw
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Dreaming
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
"11"s means that the vehicle can run a standing 1/4 inbetween 11 and 12
seconds.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"I live in the heavens. I reside on mountain tops. I am at constant vigil
over thee. I monitor thy righteous ways. Thy levels art mine to command.
When thou art in trouble, I will help thee through distorted times. When
thou art low, the touch of my hand shall raise thy spirit to the proper
level. When thou are too high, I shall terminate thee with a swift stroke of
my sword. When thy wires are frayed and broken, my angels shall use solder
and iron to heal thee. Thou art the circuit, I am the chosen one, I am the
TECH CONTROLLER!"
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: Dreaming
HI I AM A NEW GUY WITH THE SAME IDEA BUT MY COMMUTE WOULD ONLY BE 44MILE
ROUND TRIP , I HAVE BEEN TALKING TO A FELLOW ON THE NW COAST ABOUT HIS
FORD RANGER EV . IT HAS BAD BATTERIES AND THE BMS IS SHOT . I WAS THINKING
THAT I COULD CHANGE THE BATTERIES TO NIMH AND OR ULTRA CAPS . DOES ANYONE
HAVE A SOURCE FOR EITHER ?
ALSO I AM NOT INTO RACING SO WHAT DO U MEAN BY THE "11"'S ?
WHAT IS MEANT WHEN U GIVE C#'S ABOUT CHARGING ? WHAT ARE U MONATORING ?
VOLT ? AMPS? OR COMBONATION ?
TIME ?
THANKS FRED
-------------- Original message --------------
At 09:14 PM 23/10/05 -0400, you wrote:
>I am dreaming of an EV to commute to work about 76 miles round trip,
>some
>hills, chilly Connecticut weather, and including about 30 miles on the 4
>lane super slab.
>
>Do I need to charge at work? Currently no provision here for that.
>
>What car, motor, controller, and batteries available today would do
>this?
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/037.html
Red Beastie, probably need battery warming and insulation for no winter
range loss. If you *only* need to do the commute, then something like
this
with aero mods and weight saving tricks with fewer batteries.
No load carrying capacity.
james
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This auction ended without the reserve being met. I asked the seller where
he got the items, and he replied, "These are parts from an Advanced DC
Volkswagon kit car." The charger is a Lester. Did ADC make EV kits? If
not, any idea who might have been the original vendor on this kit?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Wilson
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:11 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: EV parts on EBay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fse
arch.ebay.com%3A80%2F%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D8009100
421%26fvi%3D1&item=8009100421>
&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2F%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%
26satitle%3D8009100421%26fvi%3D1&item=8009100421
Anyone else see these? Sounds like a good start on an EV. EBay auction
item 8009100421
Jeff Wilson
USA (Ret)
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Est. yearly US cost to safeguard Persian Gulf oil supply: $50 billion Est.
2001 value of US crude oil imports from Persian Gulf: $19 billion
-- Harper's Index, April 2002
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts writes:
>
> Everyone I talk to about EV's always brings this up. Here's my
> proposal to this so called problem. Look at all the cars and trucks
> being made today. The manufacturers could offer these same vehicles
> converted to electric and offer then in various ranges. For these
> people who claim they need 1,000 mile range, well they can buy the
> model that has a 1,000 mile pack in it. I currently only need the
> less expensive 75 mile pack. Later, I could likely get by with an
> even smaller pack.
And what will your answer be when they ask how long it'll take to
recharge their "1,000 mile pack"?
I take a different approach. When asked about range, I ask the person
how far they drove yesterday and today, and how far they'll drive
tomorrow. Most people just don't think about how far they actually
drive on a regular basis, just that they *might* need to drive 1,000
miles someday.
Also note that the "magic number" for range keeps creeping up. It used
to be 100 miles, then 250, now I see 1,000 miles being tossed around.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar said:
> I've found that regen systems over 72V tend to destroy ADC motors due
> to brush arcing. That is the reason that I am not yet selling a regen
> version of the Zilla. The controller is simple. The reason I don't
> sell them yet is motor life.
>
> I've tried a variety of things including variable brush advance. I
> think there may be a way to make it work with a tapped boost
> inductor, but I have not played with that yet. That was the next
> thing to try back in about 1998 when I ran out of time. Back then I
> made a dozen 144V 600A regen controllers and tested them for a couple
> years. At best I'd get 3000 mile brush life. Also without careful
> control of current vs RPM I'd get raised commutator bars.
What happens, all else being equal, if you set the brushes at a negative
advance during regeneration? If you could move them over quickly enough
(high speed stepper?), would that be a good solution? Or are there other
reasons why the brushes arc?
Of course, I have other reasons to think that a standard for brush mount
actuation and a corresponding integrated control system in the Zilla would
be a cool idea. :o)
--chris
>
> Maybe after I move to Oregon I'll have time to play with it again. I
> know quite well that we all would like a good reliable DC regen
> system.
>
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Zilla controllers in production, see them
> here.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out www.lumileds.com the brightest white leds I've seen so far. Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: OT: LEDs Will Replace "everything!"
> On 22 Oct 2005 at 9:32, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> > This should help energy consumption in EV Headlights. I hope.
> >
> > From:
> >
http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20051021/sc_space/accidentalinventionpointstoendo
> > flightbulbs
> >
>
> Interesting, but I have some questions about an article that makes
> unqualified statements such as this:
>
> > LEDs produce twice as much light as a regular 60 watt bulb and burn for
> > over 50,000 hours.
>
> Of course ^enough^ LEDs can "produce twice as much light as a regular 60
> watt bulb" - but at what input power? And at what cost? Neither is
stated.
>
>
> (Saying they "burn" is rather inaccurate too, but that's about as common
an
> idiom as calling a flashlight cell a battery, so we'll let it go. ;-)
>
> All that aside, it's hard to tell from this mass-consumption article how
> much of a "breakthrough" this is, or how useful it might be for EVs.
>
> Color LEDs are great, definitely an efficiency improvement partly because
> there's no need to filter out undesirable wavelengths. Red and amber ones
> already find widening use in cars. That includes such EVs as Victor's
Honda
> conversion and the prototype Toyota E-Com.
>
> White LEDs are another matter. I've done some reading on this, when I
was
> thinking about putting LEDs on my Elec-Trak. From what I can tell,
subject
> to correction as I admit I don't follow this closely, current white LEDs
> usually use a phosphor pasted over a blue LED. This cuts the efficiency
> quite a bit. It's only been fairly recently that researchers have managed
> to match the efficacy of a compact fluorescent lamp, and those are lab
> samples, not production white LEDs.
>
> Production white LEDs, at least the ones I've been able to find, seem to
be
> about as efficient as a household incandescent, or a bit better. The very
> best ($$$) are about twice that efficacy (32-35 lpW).
>
> To be fair, though, LEDs scale down much better than incandescents do. An
> individual LED, or relatively low output cluster as used in, say, a
> flashlight, ^does^ typically exceed the efficacy of an incandescent lamp
> producing ^the same amount of light as the LED^, sometimes by quite a bit.
>
> When you get to the 55 watt range of automotive headlights, current
> production white LEDs are on shakier ground, IMO, and at an appreciably
> higher cost (which automakers are NOT keen to embrace).
>
> It's quite possible that eventually white LEDs will be used for headlamps,
> most likely first for EVs, hybrids, or other vehicles that the automakers
> wish to make appear technologically advanced. Soon? I don't think so. I
> could be wrong and I rather hope I am - things are moving faster in the
> semiconductor world these days - but I think it's going to be about a
decade
> before white LEDs are cost-competitive with incandescents and HID lamps
for
> headlights.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
> send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have set up a new global map for EVers so that people can identify
fellow EVers and where they are located.
This is a brand new site called "frappr" (friend mapper) that let's you
identify your location by area code (in the US) or by city (outside the
US). People and companies who add themselves are represented by push
pins on the map, and viewers can click on the pins to view data on those
people or companies. Participants can enter "shout outs" or pop up text
that people see when they click on them, along with a photo of yourself
or your favorite EV if desired.
This is a REALLY great resource. It's free, easy to use, and web based
with no registration required.
http://www.frappr.com/ev
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:14 PM
Subject: Dreaming
>
> I am dreaming of an EV to commute to work about 76 miles round trip, some
> hills, chilly Connecticut weather, and including about 30 miles on the 4
> lane super slab.
>
> Do I need to charge at work? Currently no provision here for that.
> Hi Lance;
Yeah! Ya sure DO, I did a 56 mile CT commute, from Killingworth to New
Haven, mostly on the Turnpike@ 60-65, and a 450 foot climb home. All EVers
seem to live up hill from work or whereEVer they are going!I installed, at
work , a 240 volt outlet, what's a few amps among friends, a trainyard full
of Electric trains. Working for the RR helps<g>!
> What car, motor, controller, and batteries available today would do this?
> Maybe a Red Beastie, 40 golf cart batteries piled in the bed. This was the
origional "Long Ranger" EV. This could do close to 100 miles on a charge. I
think Red Beastie is on the EV Photo album? John Wayland, of Racing Fame
could tell you about that vehicle.
>
My 82 Rabbit with 20 T 145's squeezed aboard probably could manage your
commute, but it would be at lower than turnpike speeds.By oportunity
charging one summer nite managed 100 miles by pluging in at several stops
during that jaunt.
My two Watts worth
Seeya
Bob
> -----------------------------------------
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic message contains information
> which may be legally confidential and/or privileged and does not in any
> case represent a firm ENERGY COMMODITY bid or offer relating thereto
> which binds the sender without an additional express written
> confirmation to that effect. The information is intended solely for
> the individual or entity named above and access by anyone else is
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> transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, we have used a 120v core out of a cheap heater on one conversion -
haven't used it much, so don't know how it performed, but it should be fine
at 120v DC. This vehicle is a Geo Metro, waiting for a new battery pack.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 2:33 AM
Subject: wallmart heater cores
> I need to get the heater core done soon. I have seen the ceramic heater
> cores on the EV web sites and wondered just how do those ones differ
> from the ones in the 1500 watt ceramic heater that can be found at
> wallmart for $17. Anyone taken one apart and used it? (or 2 of them)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, it's been tried - not enough heat to make it worthwhile!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 4:37 AM
Subject: RE: window defrost, radiant heat efficiency
> Has anyone thought about just wrapping copper tubing around the traction
> motor itself and using the heat generated from driving to heat the car?
The
> motor heat is free and will even prolong the life of the motor itself. I
> would think if you use 3/8 aluminum tubing you could wrap the motor about
10
> or 15 times and get pretty good heat transfer.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 9:26 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: window defrost, radiant heat efficiency
>
>
> Hi Roland etc.
> Wow that's quite an engineering feat, sounds like a tank, 30ea T-145
> batteries 2100lbs of battery weight, I wonder how it handles/stops though.
> I don't think I could afford to charge something similar at my 12.66c per
> kWh however.
>
> Anyway, the most efficient way to warm electrically is with radiant heat
> such as the 15" Fostoria replacement 750W quartz enclosed nichrome coil
> tubes I found at Northern Tool yesterday for $10 each. I'm mounting one
> between the dash/windshield with a parabolic reflector made out of U
shaped
> bent aluminum chrome painted (2" x 15" area). At 72V in my buggy (9ea 8V
> batts) it will be about 300W and I'll also mount one down below for
radiant
> floor heat and put on a Fet switch to the main accessory contactor.
>
> I did this before in my cheese wedge a few (well about 25 years) ago when
> there was no heater core/blower assembly already in the vehicle. These
> Fostoria type heaters are the kind used at ski resort ticket windows where
> you get your lift tickets and produce an effective warmth 3X more than
> convection (blowing) heaters. (Heating electrically though is 4X less
> efficient than other means per dollar spent but hey, it's convenient in an
> EV).
>
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:21 PM
> Subject: Re: window defrost
>
>
> > Hello Mike,
> >
> > My EV is in the EV Album
> >
> > To get to it just type using google:
> >
> > Roland Wiench 1977 El Camino Electro I
> >
> > You will see the layout of the accessory drive system, the Zilla
> controller that is under the gray box on the firewall.
> >
> > Everything is so tight, that it's hard to see the cooling system for the
> Zilla. The motor which was a GE 11 inch is being replace with a Warp of
> equal size is a double shaft, where the pilot shaft couples to a accessory
> drive using a Dodge Spline Flex coupler.
> >
> > The accessory drive is self supporting which is mounted on 4 donut
engine
> mounts. A drive shaft is extended from the motor pilot shaft threw three
> face bearings and extends out the from of the accessory support. A belt
> drive is mounted on this drive shaft which than powers a standard power
> steering, the alternator/inverter, air condition pump and a GMC diesel
> vacuum pump that does not go pop pop pop.
> >
> > Under the top mounting plate that normally would hold a engine radiator,
> is the heater hot water fill tank. Below that on the platform that the
> radiator would set on, is the water heater and pumps. The heater lines
stay
> low going to the fire wall and goes up behind the gray motor controller
> enclosure.
> >
> > You will also see two Dayton fans with a 6 inch air filter, one mounted
on
> the motor controller enclosure and one on the brush cover on the GE motor.
> >
> > On the Warp motor, which has a internal fan, I mounted this on the
screen
> brush cover using a curved steel plate that two steel tabs that extends
down
> the face of the motor which is bolted to two 5/16 bolts.
> >
> > Removing the motor, only requires it to be remove out the bottom. Do
not
> have to remove any of the items you see in the motor bay.
> >
> > The batteries are Trojan T-145's 6 volt 260 AH 800 amp. The picture
> shows shows a low profile stud mounts. I since had that modified with
> standard taper battery post. The stud mounting could not handle the
torque
> values that was specific. Too much shrink back after each run. My next
> batteries are going to be a AGM type in the same AH range that will have
> brass thread bolt connections.
> >
> > The batteries enclosures are 1/4 inch thick fiberglass boxes that is
epoxy
> coated with the same type of coating that is used on showers and sinks.
The
> enclosure in front of the battery box is also made out of the same
> fiberglass sheets held the old battery charger which was rated at 100 amp,
> that took up the whole area which is 15 inches wide by 12 inches high by
54
> inch long.
> >
> > This was replace with a PFC-50B which is all in the left side where you
> see the DC and AC meters. These meters were move to the right
compartment,
> that now have two 400 amp safety contactors that isolated the batteries
from
> the controller while the battery is being charge. A AC contactor is on
the
> AC power input to the charger. The input plug which is under the hinge
> license plate activates the AC contactor and turns off 12 volt ignition
> control to the controller. This is so that you cannot drive off without
> unplugging the power plug.
> >
> > The Batteries, Charger and related circuits are completely isolated from
> the frame of the vehicle by being in a fiberglass enclosures. The frame
of
> the vehicle is not AC grounded, only the charger housing is.
> >
> > When you charge a battery pack while the frame is ground, you can read
the
> full charging voltage from any one battery to a ground. So if you are
using
> a ground vehicle frame, DO NOT LEAN AGAINST THE VEHICLE AND TOUCH ANY OF
THE
> BATTERY CONNECTIONS WHILE ITS CHARGING.
> >
> > There is also a 120 VAC Dayton 150 CFM fan in the charger compartment
that
> brings in outside cooling air. This also pressurized this compartment.
The
> battery compartment has a 2 inch diameter x 1/4 inch thick flexible PVC
pipe
> that brings in filter air from the outside of the vehicle. Its also have
> another 2 inch flex PVC pipe that is connected to a totally enclose
plastic
> 100 CFM fan that exhaust the battery box. This brings in replacement
oxygen
> that mixes with the hydrogen of the battery so you do not have so much
flow
> loss. I only have to add about 3 gallons of water every six months. This
> air exchange technique was subjest to me by the HydroCap Company.
> >
> > Also the batteries are setting on a bed of 1 inch thick baking soda
which
> keeps the batteries clean, no weeping, no voltage tracking and the battery
> boxes surfaces clean. If you look at the white surfaces of this
enclosure,
> these surfaces never was clean since the batteries were put in three years
> ago.
> >
> > When I bought these batteries right from the Trojan Company, I specified
a
> balance set of 30 each of not more than 0.01 difference between all
> batteries. They set me a pallet load of 50 not more than 2-weeks of the
> manufacturer date, so I can do a final adjustment of the best 30
batteries.
> >
> > Today, there are 26 batteries that are still in with 0.01 V. of each
other
> and the other four are 0.02 V. of each other. I still don't have to
install
> a battery regulators to balance them. According to Trojan these type of
> batteries can get out of balance as much as 0.3 Volts before you should
> balance them.
> >
> > You will note the all the batteries are in the center of the EV. The
> vehicle has Mark and Williams 2.5 inch axles with 3 inch inner and outer
> roller bearings on the axils. The suspension is by Air Ride which can
> adjust the height from 8 inches to 2 inches off the ground. The car is
> shown level at 4 inches.
> >
> > The dash plate instruments has indications for Battery Ampere and
Voltage,
> Motor Ampere and Voltage, A Emeter that displays any electrical function
you
> want, Motor Temperature, Heat Sink Temperature, Controller Air
Temperature,
> Zilla coolant water temperature, Under hood temperature, Vacuum at the
> vacuum pump and vacuum after the reservoir. Air suspension pressure, Time
> Clocks, one for time of day, one for motor on time, one for controller on
> time and one for away time. Away time means the amount of time the EV is
> away from my home and back again.
> >
> > Then there is a array of control switches, that are back up circuits, if
> one fails while you are driving. There is fuse indicators that show if
> there is a fuse blown and where a fault is in a circuit.
> >
> > There is also emergency shut down switches with a backup emergency shut
> down switch. A alarm system is use where if the operator does not perform
> the startup and programming right, it will shut down the system that will
> run a siren, ring bells, flash lights and play load music.
> >
> > The dash plates fold down as a group exposing a large industrial set
screw
> terminal blocks that are five feet long. There are identical terminal
> blocks which are shorter in water proof cast aluminum boxes you see in the
> motor bay. Also another terminal block in the charger compartment.
> >
> > There is a large wireway that comes from the battery charger compartment
> to the motor bay which is below the custom console that also have
removable
> access plates. All control wires are shielded and than place in another
> shielded jacket cable. The internal shielded are isolated or sometime
> floating and the outer shields are only ground at one end. This is so you
> do not transmitted a signal from one end to the other or induce a power
> circuit into this control wires.
> >
> > If you weigh the EV at each wheel, than that wheel specifications should
> be rated for that weight. My wheels are rated for 3500 lbs thrust as well
> the axle points are rated for 4000 lbs thrust. The tires are rated for
2600
> lbs at 65 PSI.
> > Most of the standard wheel are rated for only 1000 to 1500 lbs. I have
> seen a lot of these brake when hitting a pot hole with the new thin wall
> tires.
> >
> > To hold the heat in the car longer, while its park outside. I insulated
> the battery box with two layers of blue foam with a 4 inch air space to
the
> side beds of the pickup box. All this foam is then cover with marine nylon
> carpet.
> >
> > The interior is also insulated with 2 inches of soft upholstery blue
foam
> under the carports and up the firewall and back section. The doors
interior
> are spray with a white rubber insulated compound and a 1 inch soft foam is
> under the door panels.
> >
> > The overall gear ratios in 1st gear is about 19.5:1 and 2nd gear is
13.5:1
> which is most of my town driving of 10 to 30 mph for several 1/2 to 2
miles
> stops per day. I only charge this 260 AH battery about every 4 days or
> until its gets down to 50%. According to UVE's Vehicle Calculator, I
should
> be able to go 94 miles at 20 mph which is most of my average city driving.
> I think this would take the batteries down to 10% of which I will not do.
> The maximum I drive it is down to 50% which one time I was able to squeeze
> 50 miles out of it going on a lot of downhill runs on the way home which
one
> downhill was over 3 miles without any battery power. Battery amperes was
0
> amperes while driving all the accessories!!!
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: mike golub<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> ;
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 5:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: window defrost
> >
> >
> > Hi there again,
> >
> > I'm in the process of converting a 1986 Toyota 4wd
> > pickup. I'm going to use 120v and a 9" warP motor.
> >
> > Where can I get more information about your vehicle.
> > thanks
> > Michael
> > Fairbanks, AK
> >
> > --- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: mike
golub<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> > > To:
> > >
>
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> <mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 11:28 AM
> > > Subject: window defrost
> > >
> > >
> > > I was wondering if anyone had come up with a
> > > system
> > > that would defrost the front window with 120 v ac
> > > at
> > > the mains, before leaving home or work, and then
> > > switching to battery mode.
> > >
> > > What is the most efficient way to do this?
> > >
> > > I'm not too worried about driving around at -20F
> > > here
> > > in Fairbanks, AK with no heat (I have warm
> > > clothes) I
> > > just worried about the windshield.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Hello Mike,
> > >
> > > This is exactly what I do, is preheat the
> > > windshield and the interior of my EV about 15
> > > minutes before I leave. I live in Great Falls,
> > > Montana where it can get to 40 below.
> > >
> > > I just love driving in the winter with my EV. Its
> > > nice and warm and can push through over 1 foot of
> > > snow. Its not a baby buggy EV that cannot run in
> > > the rain, when its hot, when is cold, in high wind,
> > > or in deep snow. Can climb steep icy hills where a
> > > lot of ICE vehicles are slipping and sliding. Can
> > > jump my co-workers cars, with my heavy duty 12-15
> > > volt 145 amps rotating alternator/inverter/battery
> > > system.
> > >
> > > To do this, the heaters work off 120 VAC that has
> > > a branch 20 amp circuit breakers coming of the main
> > > VAC power that is plug into the EV. I have two 20
> > > amp circuits that feed a 2000 watt hot water system
> > > and two 640 and 860 watt under dash heaters.
> > >
> > > In 15 minutes or less, it will heat up the
> > > interior to over 80 degrees and heat the water that
> > > is used in the existing heater core. I used a dash
> > > mounted transfer switch that can select the
> > > commercial power or a on board 120 VAC 7000 Watt
> > > inverter system which only works when the motor is
> > > turning a combination alternator/inverter unit.
> > >
> > > Could also used a DC-AC inverter that runs off the
> > > batteries. I prefer the rotating
> > > alternator/inverter type, because on coast down and
> > > while the motor is still turning, it still provides
> > > power without any battery power. Its also gives me
> > > a mechanical REGEN on long down hill icy hills.
> > >
> > > The unit I'm using if a Dynamote unit from
> > > Electronic Power House, 1200 West Nickerson, Seattle
> > > WA 98119. 1-800-426-2838. In Alaska, call (206)
> > > 282-1000. (these phone numbers may be dated).
> > >
> > > These units are heavy duty units that are normally
> > > used in large boats. You can get them in 500 to 3600
> > > watts too that runs off a lower DC voltage.
> > >
> > > The 2000 watt @ 120 VAC heater is a heavy duty
> > > engine heater normally used for Semi's. It is about
> > > 3 inches in diameter and 24 inches long which is
> > > made out of stainless steel. Its has a built in
> > > thermostat. I used a standard brass 120 volt water
> > > pump that I pick up from a Plumbing and Heating
> > > Supply house. The pump is a 1 gallon per minute
> > > type which is only 4 inches square. Its best not to
> > > pump faster than that otherwise its not in the loop
> > > long enough for heating and to dissipate the heat.
> > > Floor radiate heat has about 1-gallon per minute
> > > rating.
> > >
> > > There is no hot water radiator as you would have
> > > for a engine, but I used just the tank part that you
> > > can get from a radiator shop. They take a blank
> > > tank, and add the pressure cap and outlets of any
> > > size you want. I had them install brass threaded
> > > pipe hub connectors in a copper tank.
> > >
> > > I used Aeroquip connectors on the standard hot
> > > water hoses. There is no band clamps to install
> > > these connectors, except used a industrial T-bolt
> > > band clamp on the heater core stub outs.
> > >
> > > In using a hot water system, the tank and the
> > > hoses, core, pumps, and heaters hold about 2 gallons
> > > of water that is mix with 70% anti-freeze which is
> > > good to 84 F. below.
> > >
> > > The 2000 watt heater, pump, tank, and hoses are
> > > all double insulated with that good high dense Air
> > > Condition pipe foam. After I preheat the water to
> > > about 160 degrees, it will retain that heat in this
> > > system even after setting in -40 below zero for two
> > > hours. I was be able to defrost the windshield with
> > > out any additional on board power. Only have to turn
> > > on one under dash heater for 5 to 10 minutes on the
> > > driver side, or it will make me too warm.
> > >
> > > If you already have a heater core that works off
> > > the main battery pack, you still could add the under
> > > dash heaters or sometimes call cab heaters to
> > > prewarm the cab. I have rework the heater duct
> > > system, so there is no outside air coming through
> > > the heater core and just circulate the inside the
> > > heated air thru the windshield ducts which starts to
> > > defrost the windshield. When its above 0 degrees, I
> > > find that only one under dash heater running for 15
> > > minutes will defrost the everything.
> > >
> > > Living in the north, I cannot stand to be in
> > > temperatures over 65 degrees to long. It is still
> > > T-shirt weather at 30 degrees.
> > >
> > > Roland
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home
> > > page!
> > >
> > >
>
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/h
> s<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> > http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weathers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: wallmart heater cores
>
> On Oct 23, 2005, at 2:33 AM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> > I need to get the heater core done soon. I have seen the ceramic heater
> > cores on the EV web sites and wondered just how do those ones differ
> > from the ones in the 1500 watt ceramic heater that can be found at
> > wallmart for $17. Anyone taken one apart and used it? (or 2 of them)
> Hi All;
Yeah! I got 3 Wal*Mart Cheapo heaters, two for the Rabbit, the third
lives, still, in my bathroom, parts on the hoof, sorta speak. Two of the
cors fit nicely in a Rabbit heater where the origional heater core used to
live. Wired them in parallel, at first was gunna be fancy and do two speeds
series and parallel, but not worth the trouble. They draw 20 amps@ full bore
on 120 volts, but arent really enough when its COLD, good to about 25-30
degrees. As ya go faster in the Rabbit it forces cold air into the heaterbox
and the heaters arent enough. Maybe get rid of the Rabbit heater box and
build something that seriously recirculates?The best part is the defrost!
You can live without lavish amounts of heat, ya really NEED a decent
defroster, or give up breathing in the winter<g>!The 2 elements do give me
instant defrost, so are worth the trouble, by the time I wind up my cords
the heater has defrosted the snow, most of it, from the windshielsd, leave
it going while plugged in will nicely prewarm the car. While the ICE guyz
are racing their engines, restarting, making a racket, trying for a flicker
of heat before they get home.
> I took a Home Depot one apart and posted pictures on my website here:
Ive found that they are pretty much the same when shucked down, the basic
"Wafer" of heater element. Careful, the #$%^ tabs break off, though!
>
Hope this helps?
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great photos.
If we connect neutral to tab number 3 (the middle tab) and connect
power to 1 and 5(the edges), will we have 2 elements in series for 240
Volt operation?
Can I push that to 300V?
My thinking is that these are just resistors, except they will increase
in resistance to limit the current. So if i insulate(isolate) the unit
good enough, 300 Volts shouldn't be a problem and I'll still get 1500W.
rewired as mentioned?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 24 Oct 2005 at 6:00, Ralph Merwin wrote:
> Also note that the "magic number" for range keeps creeping up. It used
> to be 100 miles, then 250, now I see 1,000 miles being tossed around.
I've noticed the same thing. A thousand miles? Seems absurd, doesn't it;
nobody expects to go 1000 miles on a tankful of fuel in an ICE. Yet
"journalists" will blithely parrot it like some kind of dogma. Conspiracy
theorists could have a field day over where that number comes from.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 24 Oct 2005 at 7:37, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) wrote:
> Has anyone thought about just wrapping copper tubing around the traction
> motor itself and using the heat generated from driving to heat the car?
Comuta-cars used to blow air through the motor and pipe it directly into the
cabin. This has some obvious problems (it literally stinks), but the less
obvious one is that it doesn't work. Even though the C-cars worked their
motors awfully hard, those heaters worked worse than an old air-cooled VW's.
An EV's motor is so efficient that there just isn't enough waste heat to
keep the cabin warm.
OTOH you have to cool the motor anyway, so you might as well harvest some of
the heat and supplement it, perhaps with resistive heating. I think one way
(and possibly a good one) would be to use some kind of heat pump. That's
beyond my ability to make, but I'm sure there are others here who could do
it.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 24 Oct 2005 at 9:25, Mark Hanson wrote:
> Check out www.lumileds.com the brightest white leds I've seen so far.
I have. They certainly are bright, as LEDs go. However, unless my math is
off or I just don't understand the spec sheet, their efficacy is not that
impressive at 25.5 to 37.5 lumens per watt. That's based on their spec
sheet for a batwing radiation pattern unit which says forward voltage 3.42v,
forward current 350ma, typical flux 45 lumens (minimum 30.6 lumens). In
real world applications, using multiple units, I suspect efficacy would be a
bit lower but I'm not sure.
An HID headlamp returns around 60-65 lumens per watt. Compact fluorescents
are 50-60 lpw, T8 fluorescents 80-100 lpw, but these last two are probably
unsuited to auto headlights.
Right now if you are looking for the most light for the least energy (==
slightly more range) it seems to me that HID is the way to go. The
difference vs. halogen is probably trivial though.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
> Hi All;
snip a bit
> --- David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > This whole discussion makes me a little
> > uncomfortable. I've seen too many
> > cases where "civilians" (well meaning folks who are
> > relatively
> > unsophisticated in mechanical and electrical
> > maintenance) bought into EVs
> > with enthusiasm, and ended up bitter and
> > disillusioned.
> >
> > People are used to cars being appliances. What they
> > expect in an EV is a
> > car they can drive just like their gas cars.
>
Good point, when I went to show my Mom an EV, she looked at it and
sez" Looks like any other car, I don't CARE what makes it go, gas diesel
steam, electricity, mice on a treadmill, all I want is for it to work, like
the stove and washer, I feel comfortable and safe in it and it is easy to
drive" Well, that put it in perspective a bit. Sorta like me with the
computer, I just want it to WORK, log on, reafd and do E mail, look at pix,
go to links. Don't ask me how many gigabytes, smigabites, memory it has. It
duz the job. I DID upgrade to DSL, Hell! I understand that! It's FASTer,
Duh!
as for EV's, Well, they arent for EVerybody, just yet. Think of it like a
sailboat. Sailboats don't just GO, ya fuss with it, to rig it get it ready
to sail, you hafta KNOW something about HOW they work, or be a paid up
member of "Sea Tow"The rewards are emence, though. You sailers know what I'm
saying. The great joy of a properly trimmed sailboat as she steps lively
through the sea.
EV's: same thing, we must be ready to fuss with it a bit, drive with a
mind for the limited power supply, know how and why it works and live
happily EVerafter. If you can't "give" a bit here, go buy a Prius, for you
will never be happy with an ev.ANYBODY can drive a Prius, an appliance type
car. Works for grandma, Mom and EVen me<g>!Put it in "Drive" and aim it!
The thing with an EV is, you had to build or I should say , convert it,
ya get the personal satisfaction, of doing SOMEthing toward conservation,
and doing something that can't work.Well, we KNOW better here, as I preach
to the Choir<G>!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the c#'s im am refering to is when poeple are talking about chargers and
gharging and say they want to top off the batteries but dont know if they
should do it at a c/5 or c/10
i could not figure out their meaning . or am i sure about their appliaction .
-------------- Original message --------------
> On 24 Oct 2005 at 3:46, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > HI I AM A NEW GUY WITH THE SAME IDEA BUT MY COMMUTE WOULD ONLY BE 44MILE
> > ROUND TRIP ,
>
> Welcome. No need to SHOUT. We can hear you. (Meaning, please turn off
> your caps lock. ;-)
>
> > I HAVE BEEN TALKING TO A FELLOW ON THE NW COAST ABOUT HIS FORD
> > RANGER EV . IT HAS BAD BATTERIES AND THE BMS IS SHOT . I WAS THINKING THAT
> > I
> > COULD CHANGE THE BATTERIES TO NIMH AND OR ULTRA CAPS .
>
> There are people here who know a lot more about these trucks than I do, but
> from what I've seen and read, I would avoid them. They are highly
> integrated. and just about impossible for the ordinary person to hack. I
> think even an electrical engineer with experience in EVs would have trouble.
>
>
> There seems to be some kind of a contract operation distributing and
> maintaining the trucks that Ford took back from lessees. There also seems
> to be another operation (or maybe part of the same one; I'm not sure)
> selling new and used batteries for them. I think your best bet for
> resurrecting your truck (or the one you're looking at) would be to contact
> these folks. See the list archives for more info. They will sell you a BMS
> and the batteries you need to get the truck back on the road. I suspect it
> won't be cheap though. You might want to find out the cost BEFORE you buy
> the truck!
>
> Also, be careful - there are at least a couple of different incarnations of
> the Ranger EV, and I don't know how well the early ones are supported (if at
> all).
>
> > DOES ANYONE HAVE A SOURCE FOR EITHER ?
>
> Victor, a member of this list, probably does. Note that ultracaps by
> themselves aren't too useful for powering an EV. If the vehicle is set up
> for lead batteries, NiMH will probably require extensive changes to the
> (proprietary) control system. This is not really a homebrew deal; see
> above.
>
> > ALSO I AM NOT INTO RACING SO WHAT DO U MEAN BY THE "11"'S ?
>
> I'm not either, but I think it means between 11 and 12 seconds elapsed time
> in the quarter mile.
>
> > WHAT IS MEANT WHEN U GIVE C#'S ABOUT CHARGING ? WHAT ARE U MONATORING ?
> > VOLT ?
> > AMPS? OR COMBONATION ? TIME ?
>
> Sorry, I don't understand the question. What are C#s?
>
> EV mailing list archives:
>
> http://www.egroups.com/list/ev/
>
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/ev@listproc.sjsu.edu/
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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>
--- End Message ---
