EV Digest 4859
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 1.591 second 60 ft. WZ Launch Video
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: high voltage heater options?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Battery Analyzer - Keeping track of AHr's w/confidence
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Volts rabbit conversion: Transmission fluid.
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 1.591 second 60 ft. WZ Launch Video
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: plugging in at work
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 1.591 second 60 ft. WZ Launch Video
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Relative pollution
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Relative pollution (was permission... was range...)
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) EV article in Bay Guardian
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Orbital dimensions?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Invitation to a Yahoo group: electricranger
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Dead batteries
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Max current w/top terminal UPS batteries?
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Don't drive away with your cord dragging: was Daddy says don't
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Getting permission to recharge at work (WAS The 'range issue' (long))
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: good name for at EV: hockey stick
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: high voltage heater options?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Local car hackers help San Franciscans plug into the future.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Hooking up three battery chargers in series
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 1.591 second 60 ft. WZ Launch Video
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Rich said
...And bigger water passages in the Zilla so we don't need a 30 PSI pump to
move 2.5 Gallons in less than a couple Eons...
Since space is probably an issue, what about having the lines go thru with no
cross hole for the racing version of the zilla2K.
Then you can parallel flow twice as much by using an external manifold.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave, FWIW for the 312V (nominal) new Beetle, I am using Randy's 240V
heaters without any problems.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Brandt
Sent: October 26, 2005 6:01 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: high voltage heater options?
Hi, folks. Been a while. I'm working on a Fiero conversion, which will
take QUITE a while, but the heater core is out, and I was going to replace
it with the electric one, but I'm planning to run a high voltage (at least
240V, but probably closer to 288-300V). Randy at CANEV says the highest
rated core he has is rated for 240V. What are some options to do the heater
at this higher voltage?
Thanks, Dave Brandt
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm an happy watt's up user (buy them 50$ from here)
http://cgi.ebay.fr/Compact-Battery-Pack-Analyzer-Meter-4-60V-upto-100A_W0QQitemZ5822827153QQcategoryZ51004QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
a must have tool for battery testing:
I made an automatic battery capacity tester (50A electronic load) with
selectable voltage limit because i have all sort of EV batteries :^)
For more than 50A continuous you HAVE to open it (break in fact...) and put
a big fan on it or change SM tiny onboard shunt (should be 0.001ohm) for
outboard 100A 100mv or 200A 200mw one !
otherwise upper 100A it will desolder fast i think...
You can put it on e-bike dashboard and have very accurate low cost e-meter's
like (though no memory so it have to be ON all time after charge, about 10mA
power usage)
In this case i advise you changing LCD HD44780 (3,3V here not 5V) which is a
50°C max version for a -20°C to 70°C one.
lets talk about his one too:
For 100$ with PC connectivity for data logging
http://www.medusaproducts.com/Other/Power-Analyzers/pa-60100T.htm
I would buy it but i'm finaly designing my own one Pc based to have more
functions like temp monitoring, automatic cycler and other useful EV
bateries care things :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mueller, Craig M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:37 PM
Subject: Battery Analyzer - Keeping track of AHr's w/confidence
> I have a battery analyzer for my e-Bike project (link below) - I see
> there is a "Batman 3" out that seems to do the same thing, but the sales
> description seems to point more toward racing applications.
>
>
>
> My intent is to develop a reliably predictable way to know my state of
> charge and range (remaining or used) - Have any microprocessors been
> developed to allow users to input vehicle/pack specific variables (e.g.
> Peukert, vehicle weight, rolling resistance fudge factor, couple with
> speedometer to account for drag + input drag coeff., battery life
> profile) to get an accurate range output?
>
>
>
> http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1634
>
>
>
> http://www.cloudelectric.com/item.jhtml?UCIDs=866086%7C901767&PRID=74047
> 5
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Craig Mueller
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
My VoltsRabbit has the Redline fluid in the transmission (it was
a diesel with about 95K on it before conversion). 30K miles
later the transmission seems ok. I'll try to check the fluid
bottles tonight and post if it is a different name. It's been so
long since I looked at them. Apparently there is a
super-slippery Redline fluid (use if your tranny is in great
shape), and one somewhat less thin for transmissions maybe less
perfect. I used the latter.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: Volts rabbit conversion: Transmission fluid.
>
>
>
> > Got a Diesel Rabbit to convert to electric. 9 inch and rear
battery box
> > already in. I'm assuming it is geared a little lower. What
is a good
> > synthetic to use. I'm thinking Royal Purple, Amsoil or
Redline might be
> > options. What works well and lasts. Protecting the tranny
would be nice
> > too.
> > Lawrence Rhodes
> > Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> > Reedmaker
> > Book 4/5 doubler
> > Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> > 415-821-3519
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
With what are you comparing the time? I know I've had a hard time
determining where the traps are, so I wouldn't trust pedal lift for much.
Nothing, its just a rough guess. Without some other form of timing I
really have no way of checking. Someone with some Mac programming
experience could whip up a app that reads a line of zilla output from
the serial port, appends a timestamp and write out the result.. that
would be the only way to be certain.
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVeryone,
Lynn wrote:
Ok, this thread is getting very interesting. Perhaps if we put together
all of our ideas on how get permission (from cooperative or
non-cooperative employers) we could increase the availability of
charging locations.
Those were really good ideas on how to get your employer to consider
giving you a charging spot. I confronted the deputy director at place
of employment (my "day" job :) ), and he said he'd take the idea into a
weekly staff meeting. It was decided that a parking spot with a plug
would be provided.
I didn't make as elaborate of a presentation as what Lynn suggested, but
I think that would be wise. Once a supervisor has said "no", it makes
it hard to appeal. Be sure to mention that you realize it is an
"electric vehicle" parking spot only, not your own personal private spot
even when or if you don't drive the electric.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yea Ot that's what I am seeing. also the 90 Deg bends on your fittings are
pretty adverse to High fluid flow.
What was getting me is not the flow through our equipment but the need for 3
GPM across the radiator to make thier claimed Rtheta.
With as little as flows through the Zilla I am very impressed with what it
does with it.
Do you know My Z2K makes a really nice 500 watt heatsink...Just by pumping
hot water through it???
Messed up my watt flow numbers... I ended up heating the metal bench that
the Zilla was on...
And relax the water was only 150 Deg F..
The PFC40L charger can use less water, I am doing the really nasty hot
weather testing... And un like You I have to beable to run at Full power on
a continuous load.
The partial bypass and stiffer PSI to make sure you have the flow you need
is what I am trying to figure out.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: 1.591 second 60 ft. WZ Launch Video
> >Ot You need to get them contactors flipped faster, and give him some ramp
on
> >both the Series launch and the reattack after a S/P switch over.
>
> Granted, I can see room for improvement there.
>
> >And bigger water passages in the Zilla so we don't need a 30 PSI pump to
> >move 2.5 Gallons in less than a couple Eons...
>
> They seem to be cooling just fine at the slow flow that they get now.
> Why do I need more? It would take an awfully good reason to get me to
> change a design that works so well. That small heatsink is critical
> the the whole electrical design, it would be very difficult to
> increase the coolant flow rate if I wanted to. As long as it's
> working so well, I think it's staying just as it is.
>
> I can see that you may need more flow for your charger, maybe we'll
> need a partial bypass around the controller to provide enough flow to
> your charger on the same loop.
>
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 12:03:49PM -0400, Neon John wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:57:08 -0700, Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>
> >> Then there is the matter that any document claiming that EVs are
> >> cleaner than modern gas cars is simply false. Especially until
> >> nuclear becomes the predominant source for electricity. A manager
> >> with some technical competence will quickly recognize the fiction
> >> presented as truth.
> >
> >Is this true?
> >
> >I though that even with 100% coal power, EVs were cleaner by almost
> >any measure.
>
> First off, realize that we're discussing differences in vanishingly
> small quantities. The conundrum arises when people without any real
> knowledge argue using numbers they've read somewhere but who don't
> understand their origins or true meanings. The emissions limits for
> cars, for example. A modern car is allowed so many grams of this and
> that per mile (can't recall the numbers off the top of my head and
> they don't matter anyway for these purposes.) One might compare these
> limits with those from a power plant, whip some math out to compute
> how many EVs could charge from the power plant and conclude that the
> plant is overall cleaner. Not true on many fronts.
http://www.electroauto.com/info/pollmyth.shtml
States that all the pollutants in the US excepting SO2, and particulates
would drop substantially.
>From that site:
NCs CO NOx SO2 Particulates
US -96 -99 -67 +203 +122
US CA -96 -97 -75 -24 +15
France -99 -99 -91 -58 -59
These seem like fairly large values (including the increase of SO2).
>
> First off, the emission limits are LIMITS, values that cannot be
> exceeded.
Why is it that they cannot be exceeded?
Due to legal issues?
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/speeches/speech4.gif
>From http://www.epa.gov/otaq/speeches/mto-9508.htm:
The second major challenge that we are facing is the problem of in-use
deterioration. While all new vehicles offered for sale must be designed
and produced to meet emissions standards, actual in-use performance is not
as good. Too often, broken or malfunctioning parts or simply lack of
proper maintenance or repair results in vehicle emissions significantly
above the standards. [Slide #4] This slide, reflecting lifetime HC
emissions, shows an increase in HC emissions of approximately 77%.
> The OEM must achieve those limits over the whole fleet and
> do it for 100k miles or 5 years.
The chart above shows that this is not the case.
> The result is that production cars
> far exceed the limits in order to have enough fleet headroom to allow
> for aging, unforeseen component degradation and so on.
I've had two cars both of which I owned in MI and moved to CA.
One was a 1991 Jeep Cherokee with about 220K miles on it.
When I took it to get smog tested, it had more then 20x the allowable amount of
NOx. It might have been more, but the test report was pegged at that value.
The other ones were way over also, but that is the one that tagged me a gross
polluter.
Why didn't I have this fixed while I was in MI? The car was never tested in
MI. It ran smooth, the check engine light was not on and even if it was, I
would have ran it into the ground (I was very poor). Also, it did not get very
good mileage indicating elevated CO2 emissions.
So, that means my single gas car was worse then more then 20 new cars,
or what, 10,000 EVs?
That is one of the major reasons EVs are so much better. You have one
huge emissions control device. This device is monitored more closely then
the one on my Jeep. Also, my EV gets cleaner over time as plants are upgraded
and the source mixture improves.
Vs ICE powered vehicles which always get dirtier (None are ILE).
>
> I've sat in many an OEM emissions dyno room and watched the
> state-of-the-art emissions measuring equipment absolutely flatline,
> all zeros. Will all cars do that well? No. Will most? Yes.
The data we've seen so far indicates that most will not. Here are the stats on
the age of the US fleet:
http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics//2005/html/table_01_25.html
>From that URL:
Median Age of Automobiles and Trucks in Operation in the United States
Year Autos LT All Trucks
2003 8.6 6.6 6.7
2004 8.9 6.4 6.6
>From http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/rtecs/chapter3.html:
An average vehicle, therefore, traveled farther in 1994 than in 1988:
11,400 miles per year compared with 10,200 miles per year (Figure 3.2).
So, now we can figure out how much the average US car pollutes:
11400 Miles per year * 8.9 year old car == 101460 Miles on avg car in US.
Now that we know how many miles the average car has gone today, we can
see how bad its pollution is today. If you look at the gif I posted above,
you can see that the average US car is emitting twice the legal limit of
HC today.
Based on this, EV's look even cleaner then we once though before.
<..snip..>
> At some point one has to ask which is sillier -
> the necessary methods or the limits?
The limits seem fine, the fact that the cars in the US are not below the
limits is the problem.
>
> There is another factor that enters into the comparison that seldom
> gets discussed - the reliability of diversity. When emission controls
> are spread across millions of individual emitters (cars), we know two
> things. One, some small fraction of the systems will always
> malfunction and two, no single event or cluster of events can cause a
> near complete failure of the emission systems. Nothing short of a
> disastrously bad fuel distribution could cause millions of individual
> emissions systems to fail.
The problem is that these systems degrade on there own, and they need to be
serviced regularly in order to remain compliant. The information posted
above shows that they are not.
>
> Compare that to a state-of-the-art coal plant. The failure of one
> single component, say, a critical pump or valve, can completely shut
> down a stage of emission control. If the scrubber shuts down, for
> example, the plant emits a relatively huge amount of particulates and
> sulfur. A single small failure can completely defeat the emission
> controls of millions of EVs by proxy if they were charging from that
> plant.
>
http://www.epa.gov/echo/compliance_report_air.html
5,940 facilities total.
5,487 facilities are in compliance, or "on compliance schedule".
677 facilities are in violation.
So, 8.7% of coal plants are currently non-compliant.
Based on the data seen in slide 4 posted above, the average car in the US
today will be non-compliant after driving around 35,000 miles.
Seeing as how the average car has driven 101460 miles, This would seem to
indicate that a much larger percent of the US auto fleet is non-compliant
when compared to coal fired power plants.
> The naive might think the plant would be shut down during an emissions
> system failure. Not so, in most places. Most utilities have little
> or no reserve and so have to operate any plant that can be operated,
> either intact or patched together with bailing wire and duct tape.
> They may get an EPA waiver. They may choose to pay the daily fine
> which, in the case of government utilities like TVA, leads to the
> curious practice of the left hand giving money to the right hand.
This is one of the major differences, nobody charged me a daily fine because my
emissions control was not working. I did not even need to use duct tape
and bailing wire :)
>
> There are only a few places in America where that situation exists.
> Everywhere else, an EV conversion would not make any difference either
> way. Here in Cleveland, TN, for example, the air is so clean that the
> EPA doesn't bother to monitor it full time.
Where does all the pollution produced by coal fired power plants, and cars go?
<..snip..>
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10/25/05, Arthur W. Matteson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> And a thing about negativity and grumpiness. When I was 12, I asked my
> father if he thought I could program an Internet browser into a TI-86
> graphing calculator.
I'm only 33 and you just made me feel old.
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
10-26-05 issue. Page 26. Electroautomotive mentioned as well as Lawrence
Rhodes. I told them about Electroautomotive. Glad to see them get a plug.
They called my Aspire a Geo. But hardly a problem. Nice little article on
EV's/conversions & solar charging. Sherry was mentioned also.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
Rather than design your frame around one particular battery, why not
choose a range of possible batteries, and make sure your boxes can
accommodate the largest? You can shim the smaller ones with expanded
polystyrene to prevent shifting, or make a metal internal frame that
bolts to the box, but the (removable) frame is customized to hold down
whatever battery you feel like using.
Chris Tromley wrote:
Still working on the solid models for my EM. I finally got a chance to go
to the local Auto Zone to measure an Optima. Surprisingly, the height to
the case top (where angle steel would want to lay as a hold-down) is 6.75".
Yet the measurements of an Exide Orbital as posted here describe the case
top height as 7.5".
Is the case of an Orbital *really* 3/4" taller than an Optima? The Orbital
overall height is 1/4" higher, and an Optima has the posts on a 1/4"
pedestal above the case top, but that still leaves 1/4" unaccounted for.
*snip*
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just started http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/electricranger - I'm going to
be the gatekeeper for membership, which should prevent all the spamming that
Ranger_EV allowed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela,
The probability is high that all 3 did not go bad at
one time, but it may be the result of one battery
having one or more cells that are bad. When this
happens the bad battery will act as a large resistor
and begin to take down the rest of the string. This
would result in a scenario that you have found.
Another cause could be if you have a high leakage
current or connection to the chassis in that part of
the string, this could bring down a weak battery and
lead to the description above.
The best bet would be to charge and load test these
batteries individually. Also check to see if you have
any terminals that are possibly "leaking current" to
the chassis.
What type of batteries are these?
Jimmy
--- Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello Everybody:
>
> I surely thought, that my sudden drop in voltage was
> due to the cold snap
> we had a few days ago. But I had the same problem
> again today and we
> haven't a cold night. Well, I checked the batteries
> and, while the system
> voltage was about 110 V (after driving about 10
> Miles, down from 130V)
> most batteries had about 6.27 Volts. But I found
> three batteries with
> _low_ voltages, what puzzles me is, that those
> batteries were all wired
> together in one string.
>
> +-----+ +-----+ +-----+ +-----+ +-----+
> ----+ A +--+ B +--+ C +--+ D +--+ E +--
> +-----+ +-----+ +-----+ +-----+ +-----+
>
> A = 6.27 V
> B = 5.27 V
> C = 5.45 V
> D = 5.78 V
> E = 6.27 V
>
> I can't believe I lost three batteries at a time, so
> I went ahead and
> replaced B. Should I replace C and D too or were
> they down because of the
> dead B?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Michaela
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor,
If you must use a bolt to terminate to a lead post and
can select the bolts, use 5/16 - 24(threads per inch).
You will be able to control and reach the recommended
torque more easily.
Also, I do not use locking (split) washers, but do use
the largest surface possible contacting the lead.
Jimmy
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Robert,
>
> I do have a potential problem with my car (S10), in
> that I cannot reach most
> of the batteries without major work (under the cab /
> two layers in the box)
> so I plan on using the approach to have low pressure
> on the tabs by using
> a large surface area with the type of lugs (and if
> necessary, larger
> washers)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have to pop the hood to charge my Solectria E10.
When I originally bought the truck I was going to
change this so I did not have to open the hood, but
soon realized that this was a good guarantee that my
wife or kids would never drive off with the hood open.
I can get away with this because it is garaged.
Jimmy
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> This can be an extremely dangerous situation. Lets
> say you used the AC
> current and a relay to turn off your EV while
> charging. What if you use a
> timer to shut off your charger. You can still start
> and drive while plugged
> in. I think a switch of some sort on the door is
> best. Then no can drive
> at all unless the door is closed. That is the way
> my Electravan is now.
> Switch on the door. Door must be shut tight.
> Lawrence Rhodes...
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My approach will also mention the good publicity: . We're always hiring, and
I'll bet HR would like to get our name in front of local folks through a
"XYZ Corp Supports Green Technology" newspaper article I could feed to the
city desk at the local paper.
One option I'm considering if I'm given a "no" answer is to get permission
to have the utility company install a drop at the edge of our parking lot at
their transformer. I would need to get a meter box and pay a monthly fee,
but it would still be a fraction of my gas costs.
Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions...
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 4:24 PM
Subject: Getting permission to recharge at work (WAS The 'range issue'
(long))
> Ok, this thread is getting very interesting. Perhaps if we put together
> all of our ideas on how get permission (from cooperative or
> non-cooperative employers) we could increase the availability of
> charging locations.
>
> Here are my first ideas:
>
> 1) If you work at a company that has fleet vehicles, talk to the fleet
> vehicle manager. They are aware of many of the state/local advantages
> to alternative fuel vehicles. (This has worked for me)
> 2) Talk to maintenance and facility people. They usually know where
> the outlets are and often assign parking spaces too.
> 3) Get endorsements from the local chapter of the Asthma or American
> Lung Association (or local equivalent) The ALA has been very supportive
> of electric vehicles in Denver
> 4) Learn about potential tax advantages for installation of
> "alternative fuel vehicle refueling stations" In Colorado there is a
> large tax credit available to employers to install them. There is even
> a larger credit if those refueling stations are available for public
> use.
> 5) Do the calculations and offer to pay for your fuel. Use real
> numbers and the actual electric rate your employer pays. Most people
> think that will be $25 or more per week - $1,220 per year (that's what
> they pay for their commuting fuel). When they find out you need less
> than $2.00 per week for fuel, they may realize the cost is
> insignificant. Maybe compare it to what it takes to run one of those
> 1500 W space heaters.
> 6) Take all the information you can find about the tons of pollutants
> you are not dumping into their air, summarize how much CO, CO2, Nox etc
> you avoid putting into the air over a year. Put it into a report.
> Review it with your company medical or insurance contact. Get their
> support.
> 7) Get a human interest article in your company newsletter. Be sure to
> provide the newsletter with all the above information.
>
>
>
> Finally take all of this information put it in a well written portfolio
> and present it to a person that can make a real decision. The janitor,
> The owner, the CEO, the CEO's spouse, whoever. Just don't mess with
> people that can only say no (most of middle management). Walk them
> through the portfolio and be prepared to discuss details if asked.
>
>
> Good luck
>
> Lynn Adams
> My employer has installed a 240V outlet at each of our locations for me
> to use. Neither is near the front door, but one is out of the weather
> under the loading dock!
> See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Pool, Ryan
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:28 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: The 'range issue' (long)
>
>
> We've been down that road. After volunteering all of that I was told
> that allowing me to charge at work would amount to giving me a reserved
> parking space which would also go against company policy.
>
> I believe the people I spoke to were really reaching and grasping at
> straws. I don't believe they were being honest with me, but until I can
> find out their true reasoning for denying allowing me to charge I won't
> really know why they are being dishonest.
>
> Ryan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Evan Tuer
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:36 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: The 'range issue' (long)
>
>
> On 10/25/05, Pool, Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > And don't forget it also needs to be more reliably accessible! I've
> > been told I can't charge at work because then my company would be
> > providing me a benefit that they wouldn't be providing anyone else and
>
> > that they wouldn't benefit from letting me charge. Until I can
> > overcome that or reduce my range requirements I'm nervous about taking
>
> > on building an EV.
>
> A suggestion; offer to pay for the installation of the outlet,
> electricity you use, plus a token monthly fee for the service. Then,
> they're not providing you a "benefit" - it's a service, bought and paid
> for. The company benefits through the payment, and if they want it
> could be used as something interesting to put in the company newsletter,
> or local press publicity.
>
> I guess I'm pretty lucky in that my company agreed to do this for me.
> But, persevere, and ask nicely, and you may get somewhere.
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date: 10/25/05
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Remember, regardless of our political beliefs, we do
have a broad common ground. For example:
We agree that gas stations are good for buying donuts
and using the rest room.
We agree that when the oil companies jack the price of
gas or have another phony shortage, we have the
freedom to drive on past and let everybody else fight
over the pump.
We wonder what it will be like to be the only people
driving when the real shortage hits!
Jimmy
--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I know many on this list have environmental agenda's
> and enjoy stuff like
> this, but I fail to see either vehicles or
> electricity in this post let
> alone used together in the same context. Let's
> leave it alone before we
> start another EVDL culture war...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave,
Will 450VDC be enough? If so, you can use the one actually one meant
for the job - http://www.metricmind.com/heater_w.htm and avoid
all that jazz below. All you need is hook up 4 wires and 2 water
fittings. You won't heed to touch your dash. Email me if you need
detailed user manual.
Victor
Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello David,
If you are using the heater elements or a elements out of a heater
unit, make sure you install the high limit temperature switch,
operating temperature switch and fan limit that comes with it or add
these two units in the heater core enclosure.
In electric or even gas heat units, the high limit switch prevents
the heater to go in over temperature if the temperature switch fails.
The temperature switch inside the unit is normally set between 110 to
160 degrees. The fan limit is set so when the heater temperature
gets to about 120 to 140 degrees, than the fan comes on. When the
core temperature falls below a set level where you start to feel cool
air, than it shut off.
The high limit temperature switch come in ranges from 180 to over 300
degrees. This will depend on you housing and how its insulated. You
should used high temperature insulation that looks like white
fiberglass that you can get from a wood stove suppler. You could
also used exhaust header wrap glass tape that is good for over 1000
degrees.
If you are using a bare heater element. Then a housing is made out
of uncoated metal, do not use galvanized!!! Stainless would be the
best. Used un-insulated wire terminals with a metal insulation grip.
If you cannot find these, than get a terminal that is large enough to
fit the insulation of the wire plus the wire that is folded back over
the insulation.
Do not used heat shrink on this terminal. Used 3-M high temperature
glass tape. Half wrap the wire starting from the tail end, going to
the wire terminal, over the terminal and back again to the other end
of the wire.
All the wires inside the box should be high temperature insulation.
Any wire that exits out the box, should go through porcelain
grommets.
The thermostat control could be the inside thermo limit switch you
can set from 140 to 160 degrees that's inside the heater box. A on
dash switch or a line voltage thermostat would than control a battery
pack contactor, to turn on the heater.
Install a Fustron or a Limitron fuse, which is design for heater
loads. These are very slow blowing and can take a surge in ampere.
If you are using a 2000 watt heater at 240 volts then the ampere of
the heater is about
2000/240 = 8.33 amps. We normally fuse this at 1.25% over or 8.33 x
1.25 = 10.4 amps or used the next closes fuse of 12 amp fusetron
rating. Sometimes a 250 volt rating fuse will work, if its in a 600
volt rating fuse holder, otherwise used a 480 volt rated fuse.
Note how the outside cold air comes into the heater core. A ICE uses
outside cold air, because the water temperature could get over 200
degrees and outside air is use to temper it and to bring in fresh
air. In a EV, you do not need any outside air to cool down this
temperature. All you need is to re-circulated it with a little bit
of outside air by blocking about 95% or more of the outside air with
a metal plate.
If the car uses A/C, you will note that there may be a damper door
that either selects the heater duct or the A/C duct. When its in the
A/C mode, some cars re-circulated the air as mine did. I rework the
vacuum motors that drive these damper doors with separate switches.
I still had to block the outside air.
You could also install a duel contactor, which both are mechanical
and electrical link together so only one can be on a time. This is
how motor reversing contactors are used. Used one contactor for the
power to the heater from the battery and the other contactor with a
another fuse power circuit from the main 240 VAC circuit that feeds
your onboard battery charger if you used one.
You can control the coils of these contactors with 12 volts where the
one contactor that uses the off board AC power, used a timer that is
control by a selector switch, ON-OFF-AUTO, where you can turn on the
AC contactor by passing the timer while switch is in the ON position,
or when in the AUTO position, its uses the timer.
I normally set the timer for about 15 minutes before I leave with the
EV, to preheat the EV with AC power. I also turn on a small on board
12 VDC battery charger, so that the main batteries or a 12 VDC
battery or 12VDC DC-DC is not being used at the time.
I am using 2500 watts of electric heaters, and its only need at times
to be preheated for only 5 minutes. One time I went out when it was
only 0 degrees, the heat blasted me at over 80 degrees when I open
the door. Also all the snow and ice was melted off the car.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.sfbg.com/40/04/x_biznews.html From the Bay Guardian. I am
mentioned as the car hacker.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the connection between chargers is not connected, you will have
problem with regulation - the chargers will cross talk.
Even if it would work, the danger is if one fails short - then
the other will get twice as much voltage on its output, so the
filter caps will blow up, you'd want to use a diode to prevent
reverse biasing a charger.
Connect each charger the mid-pack point, so each charger gets
its own half-pack stiff load, so the regulation is independent.
Each charger will not be aware of the presence of another one
(this is for isolated ones only!!).
Victor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
you are asking for a fire when one of the connections come lose . dont do it . instead go to a machine salvage co and get a larger transformer and the got some full wave bridge rect.
-------------- Original message --------------
Hi All,
Has anyone ever hooked three or and number of battery chargers in series to
get the required battery charging voltage. Does anyone have any objections
on this. The battery chargers are all isolated by the way.
Or is it better to just charge three 12 volt batteries in series.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, the slower the and smaller tubing may be better. I found out this
with my hot water floor heat in the concrete floors in my house.
Each zone has one loop of 200 feet of 3/8 inch rubber like tubing. There is a
Honey Well Temperature Meter on the feed and another one of the return. There
is a ball value that is used to adjust the flow.
The return pumps can be adjust to feed 1 to 6 gallons a minute.
The water is heated up to 140 degrees and which is goes into the floor and
comes backs at 80 degrees with the return pump set at 1 gallon per minute. The
floor acts like a heat sink which pull 60 degrees out of the water.
Now if I crank up the return pump to 6 gallons per minute than the return
temperature is about 110 to 120 degrees.
This should hold true pumping hot water threw a radiator, if you pump it too
fast threw the radiator, it does not stay in long enough for the water to cool
down.
But, to cool off the Zilla, you must pump cold water faster the Zilla, so there
is more cold water per area of the Zilla.
Maybe a two pump two loop system could be tested out. One 1 gallon per minute
pumps the water from a holding tank and threw the radiator and back to the
holding tank. Then from this holding tank pump at 6 gallons a minute threw the
Zilla and back to the holding tank which mixes with the colder water.
This is how a hot water heating system is done.
There is a Mechanical Engineering Formula that can be used to determine how
much energy its take to heat a certain volume of water.
Knowns:
Its takes 4500 watts to heat 20 gallons of water 90 degrees rise in 60 minutes.
If the water is 70 degrees, it will take 60 min. to rise it to 160 degrees.
You can proportion this down as follows using a base temperature of 70 deg.
rising it 90 degrees to 160 degrees:
4500 watts @ 20 gals.@ 160 deg.@ 60 mins.
4500 watts @ 10 gals.@ 160 deg.@ 30 mins.
4500 watts @ 5 gals.@ 160 deg.@ 15 mins.
4500 watts @ 1 gal. @ 160 deg.@ 3 mins.
If you measure the temperature of the water going in and out of the zilla, you
can estimate how much the heat sink puts out in energy.
Example:
9000 watts @ 1 gal. @ 160 deg. @ 1.5 mins.
13,500 watts @ 1 gal. @ 160 deg. @ 1 min.
Or with a 45 degree rise:
4500 watts @ 1 gal. @ 115 deg. @ 1.5 mins.
2240 watts @ 1 gal. @ 115 deg. @ 3 mins.
Increasing the watts up decreases the time.
Decreasing the watts down increase the time.
Amount of cooling time of a hot water system:
If you have 1 gallons of 160 degree water and mix it with 1 gallons of 70
degree water, you will have about:
(160 + 70)/2 = 115 degree water.
If the radiator holds 1 gallon and is large enough area so it would cool the
160 water to 70 degrees (ambient temp) and mixes with 1 gallon of the Zilla
loop, the temperature could be down to 115 degrees.
The Zilla does not hold 1 gallon, but this is made up by pumping 6 times faster
in the Zilla loop than the radiator loop.
If you have much more coolant water in the radiator loop, the lower temperature
will be attain:
Known: My Zilla cooling system data.
I am using a 3/8 return line from the Zilla, that goes into a GM remote fill
tank of about 1.5 gallons that is used for engines that is lower than the
radiator. The 3/8 stub goes into the top of the tank, but built in tube extends
all the way down below the water level, so no air gets in the pumping loop.
>From this holding tank, A Maxi-Jet 1200 1 gpm pump that plugs right into the
>3/4 fitting at the bottom of this tank. This goes down to a copper oil
>radiator that holds about a 1/2 gallon that has a large GM electric fan, Then
>back up to the Zilla.
I have a water temperature sensor on the return and also on the feed, plus a
heat sink temperature sensor
With
the ambient temperature of 80 deg. F the Zilla temperature never went above 83
degrees, which is a 3 degrees rise.
One day, while I had the car park out in a 100 degree day, the under hood
temperature was 140 degrees, measure by my Honeywell remote temperature sensor.
The heat sink temperature was about 135 degrees before starting up.
Starting up the cooling system the Zilla temperature quickly drop to 110
degrees and than slowing drop to about 100 degrees, which is the same as the
ambient temperature.
So slow pumping threw the radiator and maybe a faster pump threw the heatsinks
may work better.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Rudman<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: 1.591 second 60 ft. WZ Launch Video
Yea Ot that's what I am seeing. also the 90 Deg bends on your fittings are
pretty adverse to High fluid flow.
What was getting me is not the flow through our equipment but the need for 3
GPM across the radiator to make thier claimed Rtheta.
With as little as flows through the Zilla I am very impressed with what it
does with it.
Do you know My Z2K makes a really nice 500 watt heatsink...Just by pumping
hot water through it???
Messed up my watt flow numbers... I ended up heating the metal bench that
the Zilla was on...
And relax the water was only 150 Deg F..
The PFC40L charger can use less water, I am doing the really nasty hot
weather testing... And un like You I have to beable to run at Full power on
a continuous load.
The partial bypass and stiffer PSI to make sure you have the flow you need
is what I am trying to figure out.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: 1.591 second 60 ft. WZ Launch Video
> >Ot You need to get them contactors flipped faster, and give him some ramp
on
> >both the Series launch and the reattack after a S/P switch over.
>
> Granted, I can see room for improvement there.
>
> >And bigger water passages in the Zilla so we don't need a 30 PSI pump to
> >move 2.5 Gallons in less than a couple Eons...
>
> They seem to be cooling just fine at the slow flow that they get now.
> Why do I need more? It would take an awfully good reason to get me to
> change a design that works so well. That small heatsink is critical
> the the whole electrical design, it would be very difficult to
> increase the coolant flow rate if I wanted to. As long as it's
> working so well, I think it's staying just as it is.
>
> I can see that you may need more flow for your charger, maybe we'll
> need a partial bypass around the controller to provide enough flow to
> your charger on the same loop.
>
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/<http://www.cafeelectric.com/> Home of the
Zilla.
> http://www.evcl.com/914<http://www.evcl.com/914> My electric 914
>
--- End Message ---
