EV Digest 4873
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Retrofit of disc brakes on bicycles.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Lithium Pack vs TMF Cells?
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Lithium Pack vs TMF Cells?
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Retrofit of disc brakes on bicycles.
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Unsubscribe Me -- NOW
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Retrofit of disc brakes on bicycles.
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Lithium Pack vs TMF Cells?
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Double Electronic Disasters in Kansas City
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Lithium Pack vs TMF Cells?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Lithium Pack vs TMF Cells?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Hawker OWY95 batteries
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Unsubscribe Me -- NOW
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV Insurance
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) No Trasmission?
by "Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Lithium Pack vs TMF Cells?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Help reviewing pack charger isolation image.
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Lithium Pack vs TMF Cells?
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: No Trasmission?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Water filling systems.
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: No Trasmission?
by "Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Double Electric Rates, so Bought Half a Car
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: No Trasmission?
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Adding a motor, battery weight + my already rather large size make disc
brakes a necessary addition. What can be done to add disc to the front fork
of a standard 24 inch rim with no brakes at all. Is there any screw on
adaptor for the disc? What can be done? What has been done. I've searched
the Voltage forum with no luck.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
I do know, that a high quality
lithium pack can deliver both power and energy density, where the TMF
(thin metal film) lead acid batteries, while insanely high in the 'power
delivery aspect' (not to be confused with power density)
Umm John... didn't you mean "(not to be confused with energy density)" ?
AFAIK, the "high rate of power delivery" is the definition of power density.
(not to be confused with the density in my brain :-)
Isn't a high discharge rate what we are talking about when we talk about
power density?
Or am I missing something here.
With a 500 lb. pack of these theoretical batteries then, the race
car would weigh 200 lbs. less than it does right now,
I don't know that they are quite so theoretical anymore-
http://www.v28power.com
I have talked with folks that are daily users of these new LiIon powered
tools and it looks like they may be just the ticket for EV batteries, check
it out- http://www.v28power.com http://www.korit.com/shop/milwaukee/v28.htm
With some kind of lithium sponsorship, a Zombie that's hundreds of lbs.
lighter with more power delivery on board could
possibly get into the high 10 second area....
How about the Milwaukee Tool Company? I am sure you would love to have huge
photos of sawsalls plastered all over the Zombie :^D
Seeya
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
I do know, that a high quality
lithium pack can deliver both power and energy density, where the TMF
(thin metal film) lead acid batteries, while insanely high in the 'power
delivery aspect' (not to be confused with power density)
Umm John... didn't you mean "(not to be confused with energy density)" ?
AFAIK, the "high rate of power delivery" is the definition of power density.
(not to be confused with the density in my brain :-)
Isn't a high discharge rate what we are talking about when we talk about
power density?
Or am I missing something here.
With a 500 lb. pack of these theoretical batteries then, the race
car would weigh 200 lbs. less than it does right now,
I don't know that they are quite so theoretical anymore-
http://www.v28power.com
I have talked with folks that are daily users of these new LiIon powered
tools and it looks like they may be just the ticket for EV batteries, check
it out- http://www.v28power.com http://www.korit.com/shop/milwaukee/v28.htm
With some kind of lithium sponsorship, a Zombie that's hundreds of lbs.
lighter with more power delivery on board could
possibly get into the high 10 second area....
How about the Milwaukee Tool Company? I am sure you would love to have huge
photos of sawsalls plastered all over the Zombie :^D
Seeya
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
** Reply to message from "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Sun,
30 Oct 2005 14:02:05 -0800
> Adding a motor, battery weight + my already rather large size make disc
> brakes a necessary addition. What can be done to add disc to the front fork
> of a standard 24 inch rim with no brakes at all. Is there any screw on
> adaptor for the disc? What can be done? What has been done. I've searched
> the Voltage forum with no luck.
go to a bike shop and you'll see many disk brakes available. I don't think
there is any bolt on systems though - you need to buy a whole wheel and
probably the fork.
Dale Curren
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--- Begin Message ---
Bravo Lee. You said it
My attraction to a water cooled system is at the system level. one
radiator in one location cooling all devices in compact but distributed
system.
I am trading potential single point failure for ability to have
compact,sealed components and ability to have only 1 mechanical fan
instead of 3 or 4.
My next question is then is this possible/good idea.
With a DC motor, water cooling the motor is just not practacal but if I
was talking about an AC system, would the heat from the motor raise the
water temperature too much and at just the wrong time to the controller?
Would 2 systems, one radiator in front of the other, be a better choice
than shareing the water.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Playing Devils advocate a little :
humm, yes, but it is also not the address to see the rules on how to
unsubscribe. I would actually have to search for that myself.
How about the very last line of each digest (i know it won't work in the
other mode that well) be something like
"Read the list charter here. How to Unsubscribe or change the list
mode. "
The word "here","Unsubscribe", and "mode" would be links to the
instructions or actually email links
Put it a small font and I will be happy to ignore it, it would be a lot
shorter than some people's tag line
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With a DC motor, water cooling the motor is just not practacal but if I
was talking about an AC system, would the heat from the motor raise the
water temperature too much and at just the wrong time to the controller?
Would 2 systems, one radiator in front of the other, be a better choice
than shareing the water.
Well, the Dolphin system (what I have) says you can just put the
controller right after the water radiator, before the motor. That way it
gets the coolest water.
In practice though, your typical automobile radiator is *really* big
when you're talking about sinking 5kw or so of heat. Thus the Prizm was
built with water going from radiator, to pump, to motor, to controller
plate, to radiator.
I've never overheated the car, or come anywhere near it. Even running at
full power up mountain hills (think 45,000 watts to maintain 65mph) the
water didn't get near half temp. The Prizm has two fans: The first is
running when the water hits setpoint 1 (or when the AC is on); this is
controlled by the Dolphin. The second fan is connected to the old high
temp water sensor. To date the second fan has never really come on.
A similar (but smaller) air cooled AC system is the Force. Force owners:
Have you ever managed to Etemp your cars?
Chris
Chris
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--- Begin Message ---
I found this for rears
http://www.discbrakeadapters.com/
I asked my shop and they hadn't heard of adaptors for the front they said to
just get a new front fork that is built for discs.Disc brakes put a lot of
stress on the mounting points so I don't know if any screw on solution would be
long lasting or safe. Even some forks that were originally had problems with
discs in the first few years they were popular. The easiest and safest thing to
do would be to get a new fork and wheel that have disc mounts. My local bike
shop where I used to live was able to set me up pretty cheap with discs.
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Adding a motor, battery weight + my already rather large size make disc
brakes a necessary addition. What can be done to add disc to the front fork
of a standard 24 inch rim with no brakes at all. Is there any screw on
adaptor for the disc? What can be done? What has been done. I've searched
the Voltage forum with no luck.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 30, 2005, at 8:18 AM, John Wayland wrote:
Here's my take on this, and again, I'm open to criticism.....a 200-300
lb. pack of the original Bolder TMF cells would perhaps take White
Zombie as it currently is configured, into the high 10 second region.
Wouldn't that be a trip! The car would be more of a pure race car,
than a streetable type weekend racer, though, as it would have
terrible range, terrible self discharge, and would need constant
attention to keep the pack alive....but man, it would be quick! It
would only weigh about 1800-1900 lbs. and would have a solid 350 hp on
tap. On the other hand, a 200-300 lb. pack of high power lithiums
would probably deliver a low 11 second run, but, could also give the
car about 40-60 miles range per charge, and, the pack would last
years. Because of their fairly flat discharge curve, I could drive to
the track, race all night without recharging between runs, then drive
it home!
Perhaps you might want a hybrid pack for White Zombie. Lithiums for
range, and lead or ultracaps for power on the dragstrip. For bonus
points, make the long-range pack removable at the track. (Maybe use
the shop truck lift gate as a forklift?) Drive to the track on the
long-range pack, then put it in your shop truck and use it to charge up
the high-power pack between runs. Light weight, long life, no noisy
generator, long range....
Ahh, the stuff of a racer's dreams....
Or, indeed, most of us.
See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
--
Doug Weathers
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
Bend, Oregon, USA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the New Beetle the controller and motor share the same cooling system
(standard install). Victor suggests that the controller gets the cool water
from the radiator before going to the motor.
I use a 8"x14" aluminium motorcycle radiator and have had no problems with
temperature (mind you I live in Canada, where is snows 11 months of the
year, and July is just "bad sledding").
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: October 30, 2005 9:05 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
Bravo Lee. You said it
My attraction to a water cooled system is at the system level. one radiator
in one location cooling all devices in compact but distributed system.
I am trading potential single point failure for ability to have
compact,sealed components and ability to have only 1 mechanical fan instead
of 3 or 4.
My next question is then is this possible/good idea.
With a DC motor, water cooling the motor is just not practacal but if I was
talking about an AC system, would the heat from the motor raise the water
temperature too much and at just the wrong time to the controller?
Would 2 systems, one radiator in front of the other, be a better choice than
shareing the water.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike, I also have a Yahoo account for dealing with the various groups I
subscribe to. RE: the account suspension notice from Yahoo, were they in
your bulk inbox or your regular e-mail inbox? I have gotten a # of these
(like 2 dozen) in my bulk mail inbox and it turned out that they are spoofs
/ potential trojan horse. I cannot help but wonder if this might be related
to your computer problem. I foreward all of them to the yahoo spam unit and
they seemed to go away. HTH, David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: Double Electronic Disasters in Kansas City
Hi folks,
This just hasn't been my week.
Disaster number one. As most of you are no doubt aware, I am the
webmaster of the EV Album and the EV Tradin' Post. You probably don't
know I also created and moderate the C-Car egroup for Citicar and
Comutacar owners, and I do the same for Mid-America Electric Auto
Association egroup. Both groups are hosted by Yahoo. Anyway, this week I
got a message from the yahoos at Yahoo telling me my account was cancelled
for violating the Terms of Service. What exactly my violation was they
didn't say, and so far I have utterly failed to get them to explain the
problem, or even respond to my emails. The upshot of this is while I have
several folks waiting to be approved to join these groups, I am not
permitted to log in and do so. Meanwhile I seem to still be able to post
and receive messages to these groups, which makes no sense at all.
Fortunately, I use a different ID when servicing the chapter webpage and
my personal EV pages which are hosted on Yahoo/Geocities so I can still
access those. Does anyone know anything about getting a response out of
the Yahoo folks? It would be nice to at least be able to hand over
ownership of the groups to someone else so they could continue to grow.
Disaster number two. About 5:00 this evening, my laptop, which is my
primary PC, suddenly went black and displayed a warning of a problem and
said to reboot. I did so and that was all she wrote. It looks as though
the hard drive has died, taking all my data with it. All it does now is
clack loudly. Setup doesn't even see it as being installed. As is always
the case when this sort of thing happens, my most current backup is about
6 months old. All EV Album submissions and email since June have been
lost. If it hasn't already been posted to the Album, it is gone. Adding
to the fun, I also lost the email address and file number for the Yahoo
issue.
I have now made the old CAD PC I use for a home web server and print
server my primary PC and have my email and web editing tools up and
running on it. It has been a long time since dual PII 400 Zeons were
cutting edge, and Intergraph no longer even makes PCs, but despite its age
it still does a more than adequate job. I guess it is also time to shop
for a new laptop hard drive.
Anyway, three things to share from all this. First back up your PC
frequently. Second, if you haven't got your EV in the Album, or have
submitted it but not seen it posted, please submit it. Third, if you
setup an egroup, make sure you have alternate moderators with full rights,
even if they are just you with a different user ID and email address.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/148 - Release Date: 10/25/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:30:45 -0600, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> High-power Li-Ion cells are getting closer and closer to
>commercial production. If you have VERY deep pockets, you could buy a
>Li-Ion drag racing pack now, but the price would be 10's of thousands of
>dollars. Without the correct BMS, however, it would likely go up in flames
>on the first run. A BMS suitable for drag racing would add a couple more
>thousand onto the cost.
Are you talking about a BMS for charging, discharging or both?
>
> A Li-Ion pack (with BMS) to feed a Zilla on the drag strip would
>cost $20k to $30k. You would be likely to blow one up working out the bugs,
>so you would be wise to double that number.
Since this thread that John and I have going right now assumes a NASA
budget, assume the money was available. What could one do in the way
of Li batteries suitable for drag racing. Max amps, etc., in a pack
that could be installed in a small car. Would 5kamps at 500 volts be
doable? That would be 2.5MW or about 3,000 HP assuming some
reasonable efficiency. That would certainly put an EV in at least Pro
Stock territory and depending on weight, maybe Funny Car territory.
What sort of weight and size would a 2.5MW pack be?
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:42 PM 10/30/2005, you wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:30:45 -0600, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> High-power Li-Ion cells are getting closer and closer to
>commercial production. If you have VERY deep pockets, you could buy a
>Li-Ion drag racing pack now, but the price would be 10's of thousands of
>dollars. Without the correct BMS, however, it would likely go up in flames
>on the first run. A BMS suitable for drag racing would add a couple more
>thousand onto the cost.
Are you talking about a BMS for charging, discharging or both?
Both. You can flame Li-Ion cells in either charge or discharge.
You have to monitor voltage and temperature on the cell level. You can
monitor parallel cells as a group, however.
>
> A Li-Ion pack (with BMS) to feed a Zilla on the drag strip would
>cost $20k to $30k. You would be likely to blow one up working out the bugs,
>so you would be wise to double that number.
Since this thread that John and I have going right now assumes a NASA
budget, assume the money was available. What could one do in the way
of Li batteries suitable for drag racing.
Are you buying, or just dreaming and wasting my time? ;^)
Max amps, etc., in a pack
that could be installed in a small car. Would 5kamps at 500 volts be
doable? That would be 2.5MW or about 3,000 HP assuming some
reasonable efficiency. That would certainly put an EV in at least Pro
Stock territory and depending on weight, maybe Funny Car territory.
You can only stick so much torque to the track. If you wanted to
compete at the level of Pro-Stock Bike, 500 HP would do it. About a HP per
pound does the trick at that level. If you wanted to build an EV to compete
with the Top Fuel dragsters, you would need 3,000 HP, just like they do. At
those ETs, you would need 10,000 W/kg or more.
You can get about 3 or 4 kW/kg from custom-made Li-Ion cells today. If you
had $500k or so to blow, you could probably develop Li-Ion cells to put out
over 10 or 20 kW/kg, maybe more.
TMF lead-acid cells can deliver 10 kW/kg. I don't think that you
would be able to wring much more than 10 kW/kg out of TMF lead-acid no
matter how much you were willing to spend.
What sort of weight and size would a 2.5MW pack be?
How much are you willing to spend?
In TMF cells, a 2.5 MW peak power pack (for a 4 second ET) would
weigh just under 600 lbs. If the car is slower, the pack weight would go up
in proportion to the ET. An 8 second car needing 2.5 MW would need a 1200
lb TMF pack. (With TMF, you are up against specific energy problems when
the car is slow and heavy.)
A 2.5 MW 1200 lb TMF pack would cost about $30k.
In Li-Ion, the ET wouldn't matter (as much). With relatively small
changes, you can make custom cells that will put out 4 kW/kg for a few
seconds. With some effort, you could push this quite a bit, probably a
factor of two, maybe more. This would result in a 2.5 MW pack that would
weigh just under 700 lbs (perhaps less,) but would be able to push a heavy
and/or "dirty" car down the track at more modest ETs, like, say, 8 seconds.
The 700 lb 2.5 MW Li-Ion pack would probably cost $250k (maybe
more.) A 1400 lb 2.5 MW Li-Ion pack would probably cost $80k.
Will it be wire transfer or cashier's check?
Bill Dube'
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi
There are some Hawker OWY95 batteries up for auction. So far I have learned
that they are 40 ah 24v sealed lead acid used for aircraft application, 2 12
batteries in series in a pack. There are 6 of them, no idea as to condition or
SOC.
Anybody interested?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 30 Oct 2005 at 17:11, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> How about the very last line of each digest (i know it won't work in the
> other mode that well) be something like
>
> "Read the list charter here. How to Unsubscribe or change the list
> mode. "
Almost every post I write to this list has the address of the evdl.org help
page in its sig. (Sometimes I forget to set the sig flag. ;-)
Does it help? Maybe. Perhaps there would be even more such posts if not
for that. However, I'm a member of another list which appends the address
of the help page to EVERY individual message. Nevertheless, they STILL get
people sending "how do I ..." messages. <shakes head>
Probably few people read that message and the ones I provide, just as hardly
anyone reads or saves the list's welcome email with instructions on how to
unsubscribe. Maybe it's an artifact of modern society. Or not. So it
goes.
I email privately every person who posts stuff like this, with detailed
instructions. (It's all boilerplate, so doing this takes perhaps 30
seconds; at worst, I might have to customize a message from 2 or 3
boilerplate sources.)
Since I contact these folks directly, it's not really necessary for anyone
else to reply to these inquiries on the list (or off, for that matter.)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Westfield National has insured my vehicles, including electrics, for almost
35 years with never a problem. When I called the local agent for liability
on the Comuta-Car, she said "I'll have to call you back." She did, and
wrote the policy with no problem. Same with the Force, on which I have a
declared value policy. I didn't even have to produce documentation for the
value; just an informal chat explaining it was sufficient.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
Is it possible to set up a DC system for a road going, high performance EV
without using a transmission? I am looking at building a custom EV, not a
conversion, so it would be very nice not to put in a tranny/clutch at all if
i can get away with it? Any ideas about using two DC motors with a Zilla
controller which switches them in series/parallel and if thats the same as a
two speed transmission? Or what that all means in the 'real world' for a
street car?
Thanks in advance
Rod
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--- Begin Message ---
There may be an alternative 1/2 way between Orbital/Hawker batteries
and these super batteries. Some web sites are showing 1+ kW/kg (about
twice that of an Orbital or Hawker) for GP3300 and IB3800 Nimh
batteries used in RC racing. Caveat: I don't know how well these
would parallel, they are only C cells and you'd need around 4000 of
them. One of the land speed racers has done this.
I dropped the White Zombie's current configuration into my simulator
(2400 lbs, 750 lbs of Hawker batteries, 5 milliohm resistance per
battery, 201 battery kW, 1000 battery amps, 1 g launch, assumed a
constant torque to constant power switch at middle rpm, geared to go
120 mph, and an ADVC efficiency curve). I calculated an 11.6 second
1/4 mile -- which is pretty close to reality.
I redid the sim with 600 lbs of GP3300 batteries, and regeared for
160 mph, and got 10.8 seconds for the 1/4! The improvements are due
to a lighter battery pack and stiffer batteries. This pack would cost
around $17k.
Anyone tempted to try this, I would suggest testing using two strings
at the lowest voltage your vehicle will run. Better to learn and make
mistakes on a $700 pack than a $17k pack!
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
There is a second major revision here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WPEVCContactorCharge2B.png
The pack fuse IS located mid-pack.
Yes, he updated it rather quickly.
ThanX for the replies, I've pointed the author
to this thread, don't think he's on the list.
Anyway, here it is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WPEVCContactorCharge.png
It's part of this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion
When you view the image, if you notice anything that needs
correcting, simply click on the "edit this page" link at
the top of the page. You can correct any errors or add
an * and point out something that needs to change in the
image, similar to my fuse comment near the top.
L8r
Ryan
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--- Begin Message ---
Thought there might be some interesting stuff in this post...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gridable-hybrids/message/2095
Lots of SAFT stuff, including a Hugh Alaskan grid backup battery...
Curious though, all the links to EV and Hybrid Lithiums are broken.
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:50 AM 31/10/05 +0200, Rod wrote:
Hey all
Is it possible to set up a DC system for a road going, high performance EV
without using a transmission? I am looking at building a custom EV, not a
conversion, so it would be very nice not to put in a tranny/clutch at all if
i can get away with it? Any ideas about using two DC motors with a Zilla
controller which switches them in series/parallel and if thats the same as a
two speed transmission? Or what that all means in the 'real world' for a
street car?
Hi Rod
I guess you haven't been on this list for very long. Two words : White Zombie
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/035.html
As requested, two motors, series/parallel, high performance, street use, of
course, somewhat of an ideal to aim for.
My wife won't drive a manual gearbox car, so there is an intent to do
something a little more... sedate, using that methodology. Have to finish
the truck first, though.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is EXACTLY what I was looking for! Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: Rush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Water filling systems.
On another thread there was a question about filling systems.
Here are some links:
http://www.aquapro.net/
http://www.batteryfillingsystems.com/default.asp
I looked into getting a system and it seems that the cost was from about $6
to $9 per cell, so for a trojan that would be $18 to $24. I have a 30
battery system so it would have cost $540 to $720. more than I wanted to
spend.
They are both pretty similar systems.
I talked with both companies and they would give a quantity order a
discount. Anybody want to order some?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the reply James.
Yes I am new to this forum, but have been trying to hunt around the net for
an answer. I did happen to stumble on the white zombie, which looked
encouraging as it uses the direct/reduction gear I was asking about and also
the two motors in series/parallel with the Zilla controller. And this might
be fine for a quick drag, but what I was wondering was if this could also be
used for a street car? And the actual practical implications for the whole
series/parallel system is, I maen in what way is it an electric two speed?
Is this system basically the same as a tranmission's gearing? And at top
speed in parallel mode, is the consumption of the motors so high that you
drain your battery packs too fast?
Thanks again
Rod
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James Massey
Sent: Monday, 31 October 2005 1:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: No Trasmission?
At 10:50 AM 31/10/05 +0200, Rod wrote:
>Hey all
>
>Is it possible to set up a DC system for a road going, high performance
>EV without using a transmission? I am looking at building a custom EV,
>not a conversion, so it would be very nice not to put in a
>tranny/clutch at all if i can get away with it? Any ideas about using
>two DC motors with a Zilla controller which switches them in
>series/parallel and if thats the same as a two speed transmission? Or
>what that all means in the 'real world' for a street car?
Hi Rod
I guess you haven't been on this list for very long. Two words : White
Zombie
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/035.html
As requested, two motors, series/parallel, high performance, street use, of
course, somewhat of an ideal to aim for.
My wife won't drive a manual gearbox car, so there is an intent to do
something a little more... sedate, using that methodology. Have to finish
the truck first, though.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That might work. Maybe hook a fitting to the drain plug and send that to
the pump and have the the return come back to the fill plug. You could run
10W40 oil (synthetic royal purple perhaps) and fill it a little extra.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 11:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
Just to stir the pot a bit more... :-)
I've always wondered why more EVs haven't used a "dry sump" cooling
system for a liquid-cooled controller and motor. The transaxle is
already full of oil and has a lot of heat-radiating surface area. So use
this oil for cooling the motor and controller instead of a separate
water system. Potential advantages:
- Eliminates water and its associated problems (freezing, corrosion).
- Oil is an electrical insulator; it can be pumped directly onto "live"
semiconductors without risk of shorts (no need for insulators).
- A dry-sump gearbox has reduced losses; the gears aren't splashing
in oil, it is being sprayed on them.
- Lighter-weight gear oil can be used, and still lubricate well.
- transmissions and differentials never really "warm up" in EV due
to the short driving distances; so the oil stays too thick and
the EP additives don't really work properly. Heat from the motor
and controller helps warm up the oil to operating temperature.
- The transaxle's huge finned aluminum case can radiate a lot of heat
with the need for a separate radiator.
- Even if there isn't enough airflow or surface area for steady-state
cooling, the sheer mass of the transaxle lets it absorb a lot of
peak heat.
- Automatic transmissions already have a built-in oil pump.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
so put a filter between them....
-----Original Message-----
From: David Dymaxion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 12:28 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
Creative thinking! A warning, though, tranny oil is likely to have
bits of metal in it and may not be insulating, so I'd be nervous
about running it directly in contact with electronics.
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just to stir the pot a bit more... :-)
>
> I've always wondered why more EVs haven't used a "dry sump" cooling
> system for a liquid-cooled controller and motor. The transaxle is
> already full of oil and has a lot of heat-radiating surface area.
> So use
> this oil for cooling the motor and controller instead of a separate
> water system. Potential advantages:
>
> - Eliminates water and its associated problems (freezing,
> corrosion).
> - Oil is an electrical insulator; it can be pumped directly onto
> "live"
> semiconductors without risk of shorts (no need for insulators).
> - A dry-sump gearbox has reduced losses; the gears aren't splashing
> in oil, it is being sprayed on them.
> - Lighter-weight gear oil can be used, and still lubricate well.
> - transmissions and differentials never really "warm up" in EV due
> to the short driving distances; so the oil stays too thick and
> the EP additives don't really work properly. Heat from the motor
> and controller helps warm up the oil to operating temperature.
> - The transaxle's huge finned aluminum case can radiate a lot of
> heat
> with the need for a separate radiator.
> - Even if there isn't enough airflow or surface area for
> steady-state
> cooling, the sheer mass of the transaxle lets it absorb a lot of
> peak heat.
> - Automatic transmissions already have a built-in oil pump.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful,
> committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that
> ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you have chunks of metal floating around in your tranny, you got bigger
problems.
> Creative thinking! A warning, though, tranny oil is likely to have
> bits of metal in it and may not be insulating, so I'd be nervous
> about running it directly in contact with electronics.
>
> --- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Just to stir the pot a bit more... :-)
> >
> > I've always wondered why more EVs haven't used a "dry sump" cooling
> > system for a liquid-cooled controller and motor. The transaxle is
> > already full of oil and has a lot of heat-radiating surface area.
> > So use
> > this oil for cooling the motor and controller instead of a separate
> > water system. Potential advantages:
> >
> > - Eliminates water and its associated problems (freezing,
> > corrosion).
> > - Oil is an electrical insulator; it can be pumped directly onto
> > "live"
> > semiconductors without risk of shorts (no need for insulators).
> > - A dry-sump gearbox has reduced losses; the gears aren't splashing
> > in oil, it is being sprayed on them.
> > - Lighter-weight gear oil can be used, and still lubricate well.
> > - transmissions and differentials never really "warm up" in EV due
> > to the short driving distances; so the oil stays too thick and
> > the EP additives don't really work properly. Heat from the motor
> > and controller helps warm up the oil to operating temperature.
> > - The transaxle's huge finned aluminum case can radiate a lot of
> > heat
> > with the need for a separate radiator.
> > - Even if there isn't enough airflow or surface area for
> > steady-state
> > cooling, the sheer mass of the transaxle lets it absorb a lot of
> > peak heat.
> > - Automatic transmissions already have a built-in oil pump.
> > --
> > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful,
> > committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that
> > ever
> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> > leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
Dale Curren
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy,
I got my buggy (99' Bombardier) up to 45mph yesterday. The trick is to use a
MC14013 flip-flop on the speed sensor (with a 1K & schottky to gnd for
despiking on input) to half the speed going back to the SepEx Regen 72V
control. The speed sensor is then fed direct to the instrument cluster with a
wire cut from the controller so the speedometer is accurate (well it's actually
5mph low since I put Chevy Vega tires/rims on for street tires. I set the toe
in to 1/4" and Camber out with lower washers/shims on the brake backing plates.
I used a 4 ohm and 150uf cap snubber across a CarlingSwitch 20A switch/circuit
breaker to control the twin Fostoria radiant homemade thin-strip heaters, one
under the windshield facing me and one in the rear. I found the 80V DC rated
breaker/switch laying around so I used it instead of the Fet Switch I made.
I stopped the Lamination Flabulation (transformer hum) with shelac as Lee
recommended.
Three of the 8V batts were mounted on the passenger floor (moved from the
trunk) to help with the dumb-bell effect steering. It still oversteers a bit,
about like the cheese wedge I had many moons ago.
Mark E. Hanson
184 Vista Lane
Fincastle, VA 24090
540-473-1248
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, Rodney - when you post to this list, can you turn off the auto-response
on your e-mail? If you don't want to, that's OK, I can deal with it; it's
just irritating!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 3:33 AM
Subject: RE: No Trasmission?
>
> Thanks for the reply James.
>
> Yes I am new to this forum, but have been trying to hunt around the net
for
> an answer. I did happen to stumble on the white zombie, which looked
> encouraging as it uses the direct/reduction gear I was asking about and
also
> the two motors in series/parallel with the Zilla controller. And this
might
> be fine for a quick drag, but what I was wondering was if this could also
be
> used for a street car? And the actual practical implications for the whole
> series/parallel system is, I maen in what way is it an electric two speed?
> Is this system basically the same as a tranmission's gearing? And at top
> speed in parallel mode, is the consumption of the motors so high that you
> drain your battery packs too fast?
>
> Thanks again
>
> Rod
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of James Massey
> Sent: Monday, 31 October 2005 1:02 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: No Trasmission?
>
> At 10:50 AM 31/10/05 +0200, Rod wrote:
> >Hey all
> >
> >Is it possible to set up a DC system for a road going, high performance
> >EV without using a transmission? I am looking at building a custom EV,
> >not a conversion, so it would be very nice not to put in a
> >tranny/clutch at all if i can get away with it? Any ideas about using
> >two DC motors with a Zilla controller which switches them in
> >series/parallel and if thats the same as a two speed transmission? Or
> >what that all means in the 'real world' for a street car?
>
> Hi Rod
>
> I guess you haven't been on this list for very long. Two words : White
> Zombie
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/035.html
>
> As requested, two motors, series/parallel, high performance, street use,
of
> course, somewhat of an ideal to aim for.
>
> My wife won't drive a manual gearbox car, so there is an intent to do
> something a little more... sedate, using that methodology. Have to finish
> the truck first, though.
>
> Regards
>
> James
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
