EV Digest 4874
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: No Trasmission?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Solectria controller connecting w/PC (Hyperterminal)
by Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EDTA Conference hotel
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Solectria controller connecting w/PC (Hyperterminal)
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Solectria controller connecting w/PC (Hyperterminal)
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: No Trasmission?
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: 3-4 Seconds Behind 'best of class gas cars'?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) RE: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EDTA Conference hotel
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Standardization of wire gauge in advertising?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: EDTA Conference hotel
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Standardization of wire gauge in advertising?
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Freedom EV started and I'm back online plus Battery version of the
Autonomy/Hy-wire
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Scirocco advise needed
by Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: No Trasmission?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Standardization of wire gauge in advertising?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) 37.5 KVA generator...
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Help reviewing pack charger isolation image.
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Heater Options..Heated Water vs Ceramic
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Advertised wire guage
by kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Advertised wire guage
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Scirocco advise needed
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Scirocco advise needed
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Solectria E-10 Fuse layout
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:33 AM 10/31/2005, Rodney wrote:
Yes I am new to this forum, but have been trying to hunt around the net for
an answer. I did happen to stumble on the white zombie, which looked
encouraging as it uses the direct/reduction gear I was asking about and also
the two motors in series/parallel with the Zilla controller. And this might
be fine for a quick drag, but what I was wondering was if this could also be
used for a street car? And the actual practical implications for the whole
The Corbin Sparrow uses a belt drive with no transmission.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm having trouble connecting my UMOC controller to my PC. I'm trying to
access the parameters. I've gotten to the "banner" where it shows "Solectria
UMOC 340, (the production date), and config # (v.1.2 is default and not
written). But then you're supposed to press 'enter' twice, type in password,
if any (and I was told by some one else who's done this that a password
wasn't needed), and press 'enter' again, and the main screen should appear.
But nothing happens after the banner. Anyone have any clues?
Jacob Harris
Solectria E-10
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, I was curious if anyone wanted to split a room at the Pan Pacific
Vancouver Hotel 300-999 Canada PL, Vancouver, BC V6C3B5 CA 1-800-444-6835 where
the EV conference is. I'll be staying the week from Dec 3rd - Dec 10th. I
also saw a few el cheapo's on priceline and hotels.com nearby.
Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jacob wrote:
I'm having trouble connecting my UMOC controller to my PC. I'm trying to
access the parameters. I've gotten to the "banner" where it shows "Solectria
UMOC 340, (the production date), and config # (v.1.2 is default and not
written). But then you're supposed to press 'enter' twice, type in password,
if any (and I was told by some one else who's done this that a password
wasn't needed), and press 'enter' again, and the main screen should appear.
But nothing happens after the banner. Anyone have any clues?
Jumper the TX and RX pins at the inverter end of the serial cable. Then
type some stuff into hyperterminal. Characters should appear on the
screen when the jumper is in place, and stop once it is removed. That
will test that the cables are good in both directions.
I'd also try a different PC. PC serial ports often do not fully adhere
to the RS-232 spec, and sometimes that can cause problems.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you set your terminal program to "no handshaking". Otherwise, if
the solectria interface is 3 wire (or your cable is), you might not
actually be transmitting.
Worth a try maybe!
Regards
Evan
On 10/31/05, Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm having trouble connecting my UMOC controller to my PC. I'm trying to
> access the parameters. I've gotten to the "banner" where it shows "Solectria
> UMOC 340, (the production date), and config # (v.1.2 is default and not
> written). But then you're supposed to press 'enter' twice, type in password,
> if any (and I was told by some one else who's done this that a password
> wasn't needed), and press 'enter' again, and the main screen should appear.
> But nothing happens after the banner. Anyone have any clues?
>
> Jacob Harris
> Solectria E-10
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For what it's worth, I'm using this approach on my conversion project.
There are a few caveats.
First, in ditching the transmission, you'll need to compensate for the
lack of adjustable torque multiplication. This will typically mean
replacing some of the avoided mass of the transmission with the additional
mass of a bigger motor. A more powerful controller also wouldn't hurt.
Another approach is to shorten your rear-end ratio, to keep motor RPMs as
high as possible. To keep RPMs high and lower the motor torque required
for acceleration, you may end up limiting your top-end speed. I have a
Ford 9" rear for my truck, and I imagine I'll be experimenting with
different gears in the back until I find a street-driving ratio that
presents the best compromise on efficiency and top-end speed. And then
another ratio for the occasional run on the strip. In this setting I'm
actually wondering if multiple smaller motors might be better than a
single larger motor simply because of their generally higher redline.
Netgain states a redline of only 5000rpm for my Warp 13, which will make
my ratio choice more difficult. (The Warp 13 has been run much faster in
testing). Smaller motors tend to run faster. Note that shorter rear-end
ratios and higher motor speeds may increase the importance of a
well-balanced driveline.
Besides this, a more surprising issue came about when I put in the order
for the motor. The simplest way I can think of to transmit power to the
rear end without a transmission is to mill a spline into the shaft -- the
slip yoke on the driveshaft then just rides on this spline. John is using
this approach now on his White Zombie, and the idea seemed pretty like a
no-brainer to me. For Netgain however, this ruffled all sorts of feathers,
and though I've convinced them that this is the way I'm going to use the
motor, I still don't think they're comfortable with it. (As it turns out
I'm currently having the shaft made for the motor by a 3rd party, but for
unrelated reasons).
The end result may be fairly efficient while cruising, from having
eliminated the losses of gear and fluid friction. How efficient, well ...
I'm not so good at the math, so I'll be finding out first hand I suppose.
Efficiency is not a primary design consideration for my project, but maybe
a pleasant surprise wouldn't be so bad.
Finally, having a motor that's depended upon to perform over the entirety
of its RPM range and not just an optimal subset of this range as selected
by the driver, it might be a good application for such tricks as
series/parallel shifting, and moveable brushes. The Warp 13 has 2 field
coils to enable the shifting technique to some extent, though I can't
imagine this to be as effective as also having separate armatures (eg.
dual motors, or John's "siamese" setup). Just remember that when doing
series/parallel shifting, it *is* much like an "electric transmission"
with one big difference -- when upshifting with a mechanical transmission,
your motor slows down. When "upshifting" to parallel in a s/p setup with
no transmission, it doesn't. This has an important effect on your top
speed. :o)
--chris
Rodney said:
> Hey all
>
> Is it possible to set up a DC system for a road going, high performance EV
> without using a transmission? I am looking at building a custom EV, not a
> conversion, so it would be very nice not to put in a tranny/clutch at all
> if
> i can get away with it? Any ideas about using two DC motors with a Zilla
> controller which switches them in series/parallel and if thats the same as
> a
> two speed transmission? Or what that all means in the 'real world' for a
> street car?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Rod
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Honestly, Rush, I think if you believe Neon is often wrong, then you must not
be reading his posts very thoroughly. While his opinions are often different
than the regular minds of this list, he is rarely "wrong". Often different and
almost always controvertail, but I personally don't think "wrong" could be used
in describing Neon's posts especially if you preface that with "often". And,
truth be told, if someone reads his "flames" with a grain of salt it could be
said that his famous flames are often a misreading of his post. He has
gathered a reputation for being controvertail and often he will provide the
opposing political opinion that is common among EVers; and for that he is
regarded as an online bully. But, I like his opinions because they cause one
to question the normal train of thought, just as Wayland has presented here.
As Wayland said in his very well written response, Neon was right and wrong at
the same time. From a stand point of 8 second $100K track mon!
sters, Neon was right. But in competition with Wayland's street legal
amp-burner he was wrong. Again, a perception of the reader.
IMHO ;-?
Jeff Wilson
USA (Ret)
-----Original Message-----
From: Rush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 9:43 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: 3-4 Seconds Behind 'best of class gas cars'?
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 12:24 AM
Subject: 3-4 Seconds Behind 'best of class gas cars'?
> Hello to All,
>
> I've not commented before on posts from John De Armond in the past,
> rather, I've simply read his stuff and for the most part have found his
> writings interesting, to say the least. I get a bit frustrated when he
> gets attacked for the things he writes, because he's often correct in
> his opinions.
and he is often wrong....
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Several folks have said to not worry about chunks of metal in the
tranny oil, just to filter it out.
First, manual trannies don't have a pump. If you put a filter inline
with an automatic it'll lower its efficiency (autos use screens, not
fine filters like a motor oil filter). Some of the metals are not
magnetic, so won't be caught by a magnet.
Second, serious car nuts with valuable machines (like Ferrari owners)
have their oils spectroscopically analyzed every change. There are
always traces of metals in the oil, despite filtering. If the metal
content suddenly rises, then they start to worry something is
failing, and can fix it before it becomes a catastrophic failure.
So are these minute traces of metal enough to cause a problem in a
controller passing 100 kW of power? I don't know, but I'd be worried
about directly wetting the electronics with it! Next time I drain
tranny oil from my ICE I'll try to remember to measure the
resistance, or maybe two probes in the filler hole might work.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Dymaxion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 12:28 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
Creative thinking! A warning, though, tranny oil is likely to have
bits of metal in it and may not be insulating, so I'd be nervous
about running it directly in contact with electronics.
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
what conference??
--- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, I was curious if anyone wanted to split a room
> at the Pan Pacific Vancouver Hotel 300-999 Canada
> PL, Vancouver, BC V6C3B5 CA 1-800-444-6835 where the
> EV conference is. I'll be staying the week from Dec
> 3rd - Dec 10th. I also saw a few el cheapo's on
> priceline and hotels.com nearby.
> Thanks, Mark
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I just bought some automotive power wire from an eBay
> > seller, and was delivered a product which is not what
> > was advertised in the auction, or on the product box
> > itself...
My understanding is that the auction was for 4ga wire, and that the box
states that it contains 4ga wire. Unless the wire in the box is not
what the manufacturer placed there, it seems difficult to claim the Ebay
seller defrauded you. It is the manufacturer who has been fraudulent in
describing the product to both of you.
> > Is wire gauge a sufficiently recognized standard that this
> > could be considered false advertising in a legal sense?
>
> This is fraud, plain and simple! AWG wire sizes are an
> internationally known standard, and they have not changed
> significantly in 50 years. I'd return it and demand my money back.
Did the box state that the wire was "4AWG", or did it just state "4
guage"?
AWG wire sizes may be an internationally known standard, but they are by
no means the only wire size standard. The W&M and S&W guage standards,
although not usually used for copper wire, result in a 4ga wire with a
crosssection nearer to 5AWG and 8AWG, respectively.
Also bear in mind that there is some tolerance allowed on wire size, and
while it might not account for the difference in this case, it should be
recognised that some manufacturer's wire will have a larger crossection
than another's even though both are nominally the same guage.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about using a heat exchanger like alot of people use to heat up veggie oil
in biodiesel or SVO/WVO conversions? They are pretty cheap and will keep the
systems seperate but still allow heat transfer without a filter creating
pressure problems. You would need an additional pump and a way to keep both
pumps running whenever you needed cooling since the transmission pump won't run
while your charging if you have a water cooled charger.
David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Several folks have said to not worry about chunks of metal in the
tranny oil, just to filter it out.
First, manual trannies don't have a pump. If you put a filter inline
with an automatic it'll lower its efficiency (autos use screens, not
fine filters like a motor oil filter). Some of the metals are not
magnetic, so won't be caught by a magnet.
Second, serious car nuts with valuable machines (like Ferrari owners)
have their oils spectroscopically analyzed every change. There are
always traces of metals in the oil, despite filtering. If the metal
content suddenly rises, then they start to worry something is
failing, and can fix it before it becomes a catastrophic failure.
So are these minute traces of metal enough to cause a problem in a
controller passing 100 kW of power? I don't know, but I'd be worried
about directly wetting the electronics with it! Next time I drain
tranny oil from my ICE I'll try to remember to measure the
resistance, or maybe two probes in the filler hole might work.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Dymaxion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 12:28 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
Creative thinking! A warning, though, tranny oil is likely to have
bits of metal in it and may not be insulating, so I'd be nervous
about running it directly in contact with electronics.
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi, I was curious if anyone wanted to split a room at the
> Pan Pacific Vancouver Hotel 300-999 Canada PL, Vancouver, BC
> V6C3B5 CA 1-800-444-6835 where the EV conference is. I'll be
> staying the week from Dec 3rd - Dec 10th. I also saw a few
> el cheapo's on priceline and hotels.com nearby. Thanks, Mark
Vet the el cheapos carefully as you don't have to stray all that far
from Canada Place/the Pan Pacific to end up in Vancouver's downtown
eastside, which is one of the country's poorest neighbourhoods (with the
associated crime and drug problems).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton said:
> Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> > I just bought some automotive power wire from an eBay
>> > seller, and was delivered a product which is not what
>> > was advertised in the auction, or on the product box
>> > itself...
>
> My understanding is that the auction was for 4ga wire, and that the box
> states that it contains 4ga wire. Unless the wire in the box is not
> what the manufacturer placed there, it seems difficult to claim the Ebay
> seller defrauded you. It is the manufacturer who has been fraudulent in
> describing the product to both of you.
So does the seller have no responsibility to know the product he's
selling? (I'm actually asking...)
Simply opening the box and looking would reveal that the conductor is
clearly not 4 gauge, and that the jacket is curiously thick for the size
of the conductor. Looking at the included accessories (eg. fuse holder)
reveals a high disparity between the size of the wire and the setscrew
clamps that hold it in place.
If I buy a TV from an electronics store and it breaks, and then I discover
that the model of television has a high failure rate and the manufacturer
knew about it, I'm not going to blame the store for that kind of quality
problem. But if it turns out that the manufacturer is putting
black-and-white TVs in boxes that label them as color TVs, then it's hard
for me to accept that the store has no complicity in selling such an
obviously misrepresented product.
It's just my opinion, but I think this situation is comparable.
>
>> > Is wire gauge a sufficiently recognized standard that this
>> > could be considered false advertising in a legal sense?
>>
>> This is fraud, plain and simple! AWG wire sizes are an
>> internationally known standard, and they have not changed
>> significantly in 50 years. I'd return it and demand my money back.
>
> Did the box state that the wire was "4AWG", or did it just state "4
> guage"?
>
> AWG wire sizes may be an internationally known standard, but they are by
> no means the only wire size standard. The W&M and S&W guage standards,
> although not usually used for copper wire, result in a 4ga wire with a
> crosssection nearer to 5AWG and 8AWG, respectively.
This is the sort of thing I was concerned about, which prompted the
question. I often see products that claim a certain gauge without using
the term "AWG". As an example, Waytek describes their wire products using
the word "gauge" or abbreviating as "GA", without ever specifying the
standard as AWG.
http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M37/catalog/218_005.PDF
This sort of thing led me to assume, perhaps incorrectly, that AWG is the
only relevant gauge standard.
It's worth noting that the wire itself has no gauge identification printed
on it -- in fact no identification or markings of any kind at all; the
jacket is completely blank. If I'd seen this first-hand before buying, I
think I'd have probably skipped it.
>
> Also bear in mind that there is some tolerance allowed on wire size, and
> while it might not account for the difference in this case, it should be
> recognised that some manufacturer's wire will have a larger crossection
> than another's even though both are nominally the same guage.
I have another picture I haven't posted yet of the comparison between the
product I bought on eBay, and a 4ga cable I subsequently bought from
Circuit City (which of course I paid way too much for). The jackets are
exactly the same diameter and appear to be made of the same material. The
conductor on the inside of the Circuit City cable ("Tsunami" brand),
however, is at least 50-60% larger in diameter, and as expected it is also
marginally larger than the Waytek 6ga cable I'm considering a trustworthy
reference. The eBay cable conductor is tiny in comparison, indeed more of
a difference than a different manufacturer should explain.
--chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Doug, Mike and All,
Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Oct 30, 2005, at 2:51 AM, Mike Ellis wrote:
> There's a concept I've been thinking about for a few months. It was
> inspired by GM's Autonomy/Hy-wire "skateboard" fuel cell platform.
...
> Designing a frame from scratch would obviously be a lot of work, but
> it seems to have great advantages. Has something like this ever been
> discussed on the list?
Actually, it's not that hard, it's all that stuff you put on it that
takes all the work.
Both the Freedom EV and it's 4 wh follow on are done basicly this way
though much thinner and the batts are on top of it. One could encase it easily
to be the same but that would greatly diminish the flexability of it. there is
a lot to be said for a 1" thich chassis with the other stuff mounted to it.
In the Freedoms, the upper body is permently glued to the chassis but
would be very easy to make it where it is bolted, ect on so different bodies
could be used.
Well, it has finially started as the skin coat for the first body in
the Freedom EV molds has been done and tomarrow I bring it home to start the
rest of it with the body being done in about a week if all goes well..
The chassis will be done right after the body is finished so within 2
weeks a whole composite moncoque body/chassis will be done !!! Yeah !!!
Been fighting with my computer but it's fixed now. Managed to do some
horse trading with the local computer store to do the repairs.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
Yup. The exchange I remember (because I participated) is from late
November 2004. There are other mentions. Search the archives for
"Hy-wire" here:
I posted:
> I'd like to see the Ridek idea turned around. Something like the GM
> Hy-Wire concept. I would prefer to own one chassis and several bodies
> - sports car, minivan, mini pickup. Perhaps a body with a genset in
> it for long trips, or one with an extra battery pack. Or maybe I'd
> just buy one chassis and one sedan body, and rent the other bodies as
> I need them. Or maybe I'd have two chassis - short range, high
> performance and long range, low performance.
>
> Having the ability to put a different body on your chassis would make
> it more reasonable to spend a lot of money on an exotic battery pack
> and/or drive system. You get to use it in several different vehicles!
>From the Yahoo archives:
You left out the motors and electronics. I'd put them in the
skateboard too, just to make things neat.
>
> -Mike
>
>
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I finally found a donor car for my conversion project
- a 1986 VW Scirocco. I think it's pretty much a
sporty version of the Rabbit. Of course I have lots of
questions.
If anyone has any experience with a conversion of this
vehicle, I'd really like to hear from you. Any special
problems to watch out for, etc.
Looking at some of the kits, it seems that the ADC 9"
motor is too big (too long?) to fit the Rabbits. Is it
also too big for the Scirocco? I also see that WarP
has a 9" that is shorter. Any idea whether that would
work? If so, is it a good choice?
Or would a 9" motor be overkill? I'd like a peppy car
but not a dragster. I'm thinking 120v flooded to keep
it simple. The beginning curb weight is about 2,200
lbs.
The stock tires are 185/65-14. I reckon I should
change to narrower tires. Or would changing to LRR be
sufficient? If I need to change size, does anyone know
if Rabbit wheels will fit?
I'll quit for now. It's exciting to be getting
started.
Ken
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:33 PM 31/10/05 +0200, Rod wrote:
Thanks for the reply James.
You're welcome
Yes I am new to this forum, but have been trying to hunt around the net for
an answer. I did happen to stumble on the white zombie, which looked
encouraging as it uses the direct/reduction gear I was asking about and also
the two motors in series/parallel with the Zilla controller. And this might
be fine for a quick drag, but what I was wondering was if this could also be
used for a street car? And the actual practical implications for the whole
series/parallel system is, I maen in what way is it an electric two speed?
Is this system basically the same as a tranmission's gearing? And at top
speed in parallel mode, is the consumption of the motors so high that you
drain your battery packs too fast?
Hi Rod
As I understand it (and I'll try and avoid technical terms, since I don't
know what your level of technical knowlege is) it works like this:
A motor generates voltage as it spins, in proportion to RPMs. The maximum
amps that can be pushed into a motor depends on the 'slope' between the
battery voltage and the generated motor voltage. At low RPMs, the motor
generated voltage is only a fraction of the battery voltage, which has the
following consequences for dual-motor setups:
- the average motor voltage ends up being low, due to the controller
limiting the amps.
- the horsepower available is [relatively] low so to get it as high as
possible, large amps are required.
- since the motor voltage is low, the controller can effectively
'double-up' by putting the two motors in series, so that the horsepower the
controller delivers for its maximum current gets doubled.
As the motors spin up, they reach a point where the generated voltage of
the two motors has reduced the 'slope' of voltage so that the controller no
longer is limiting the current. Once the RPMs are a little higher than
this, the controller switches the motors into parallel. The current flow
that the controller sees is now split between the motors, so each motor can
only get half of the controller amps. But since the RPMs are high (and the
voltage on the motor) the available horsepower is high too, so it doesn't
matter. (Although I wonder how much/if any White Zombie could improve at
the top end with twin 2000A Zilla controllers instead of one in S/P).
Selection of the diff ratio to get maximum desired road speed at maximum
motor RPMs is also important, if you set the ratio for too high a maximum
speed, the motors will spend a lot of time at high amps and have poor
acceleration. If the ratio is too far the other way then you will run out
of RPMs but have amazing acceleration until you do.
The other catch is how do you drive the speedometer? If you are fortunate,
the optimal diff ratio can be the original in the vehicle - just select the
motors to match the max RPM, and couple the end of a gearbox with the
speedo drive onto the motor assembly. But it may not be that easy!
John Wayland (owner of White Zombie) aparently often uses the car for
street use, and just for fun picking on Vipers and similar in short [green
light to the speed limit] drags where the low-speed acceleration excels.
But the car is fine for trips to the shops, too. John may have some
comments (assuming he followed this far) John?
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Robison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> So does the seller have no responsibility to know the product
> he's selling? (I'm actually asking...)
I'm not a lawyer, but my opinion is that this is a case of caveat
emptor: it is up to the buyer to know the product he is buying.
If the seller had been selling bulk cable without packaging, etc. and
claimed it to be 4AWG, then I would agree fully that if what you
received is not 4AWG, and is not marked 4AWG, then the seller is
responsible. If the cable is marked 4AWG, then I would have more
difficulty holding the seller responsible, although I would certainly
still try to get him to take the product back if it was unsuitable for
my purposes.
In the case of you buying new cable still in the original packaging, and
the packaging indicating 4ga wire, I would personally not hold the
seller responsible. In this case, the manufacturer misrepresented the
product, and it is not (in my opinion) possible to prove that the seller
deliberately or knowingly misrepresneted the product to you. In this
case, I would kick myself for not having researched the product before
buying to ensure that the manufacturer is reputable and their products
up to snuff, and for not recognising the 'too good to be true' price as
a warning sign of a substandard product. I would ask the seller to take
it back on the basis that the cable not 4ga as advertised, and is too
small for my uses, and failing that would either find some use for it or
would resell it. The seller may well take the product back to avoid bad
feedback.
What if those wires had been terminated, such as patchcords? The box
says "triple shielded", or "24ga" conductors; the seller isn't going to
disassemble the connectors to verify that this is true; he is simply
going to put up an add repeating what is on the box and probably
identifying the make/model of the product. If you buy the product and
then disassemble it and find that the marketing claims are false or
exaggerated (who woulda thunk it? ;^), do you think it reasonable to
accuse the seller of fraud? What makes this unterminated wire any
different? Do you expect that the eBay seller knows what AWG is, and
that he is going to measure the actual crossection of the wire to verify
that the manufacturer's marketing claims are accurate?
> If I buy a TV from an electronics store and it breaks, and
> then I discover that the model of television has a high
> failure rate and the manufacturer knew about it, I'm not
> going to blame the store for that kind of quality problem.
> But if it turns out that the manufacturer is putting
> black-and-white TVs in boxes that label them as color TVs,
> then it's hard for me to accept that the store has no
> complicity in selling such an obviously misrepresented product.
>
> It's just my opinion, but I think this situation is comparable.
I think it differs in 2 ways:
- Did you buy the wire from a store or an individual?
- while a B&W and colour TV obviously don't provide the same service,
the difference between a true 4AWG cable and the one you received makes
no difference at all for 99% of the people who would use this product
for its intended purpose. You happen to be the exception since you
appear to have some need for the full 4AWG.
> I have another picture I haven't posted yet of the comparison
> between the product I bought on eBay, and a 4ga cable I
> subsequently bought
All I was really getting at is that virtually *all* cables differ in
size from the standard for their guage, so simply comparing the
crossections of random cables is not a reliable way to determine if a
cable is or is not the size it purports to be. The only way is to
measure it.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
SOLAR AIRCRAFT CO. MARS GAS TURBINE ENGINE, MDL: T-41M-9, S/ N: S140513, 30KVA
CONTINUOUS, 37. 5 KVA MAX, 5 KVA MIN, HAS TURBINE DRIVEN POWER AND HEATING
UNIT, P/ N: 16600, 28 HRS.
http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=707638&convertTo=USD
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What program was the drawing made with?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lightning Ryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: Help reviewing pack charger isolation image.
> There is a second major revision here
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WPEVCContactorCharge2B.png
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Make it separate. The AC system water is barely warm.
Victor
Osmo Sarin wrote:
Maybe a bit off topic, but...If I use a watercooled AC drive system in
my first conversion, can I use the warm coolant from drive system to
heat the cabin as in ICEs? I suppose that alone isn´t efficient enough
and needs an extra heating unit anyway?
Or should I make them completely separated, which means a ceramic
heating unit is a real option for me also.
Osmo Sarin
28.10.2005 kello 18:22, Evan Tuer kirjoitti:
On 10/28/05, John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'd have to disagree with you on this, my friend. There is far more
inherent danger in a a temp regulator or pressure switch failing and
having steam build up and burst pipes and or hoses to spray scalding
steam on persons, than in a ceramic element melting things. The key to
both systems though, is a properly done installation.
That's very true. A friend of mine played with water cooled PC
components, and didn't notice that the pump had stopped until the
steam pressure blew a hose off the processor block and covered the
inside of his PC with boiling water and antifreeze. That was an
expensive experiment!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"So does the seller have no responsibility to know the product he's selling?
(I'm actually asking...)"
In a word, yes, he does. As far as the consumer is concerned, the buck stops
with the retailer. The retailer in turn has a right to recourse
against his supplier, but that's not your problem - you don't even necessarily
know where he got it. One of the responsibilities of being in
business is you are the one with responsibility to the people who give you
money. If the description of the wire had not included any
indication of guage the situation might be different, but if he advertised 4
guage and it's not, you're due a refund upon return of the wire.
Now, getting that refund may be a different story....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Take a look at eBay's stated policies. "Significantly misrepresent an
item by not meeting the terms and item description outlined in the
listing." eBay has a dispute resolution process.
Also how did you pay? Payments by Paypal have additional protections.
Payments by credit card may have some protection too.
Danny
kluge wrote:
"So does the seller have no responsibility to know the product he's selling? (I'm
actually asking...)"
In a word, yes, he does. As far as the consumer is concerned, the buck stops with the retailer. The retailer in turn has a right to recourse
against his supplier, but that's not your problem - you don't even necessarily know where he got it. One of the responsibilities of being in
business is you are the one with responsibility to the people who give you money. If the description of the wire had not included any
indication of guage the situation might be different, but if he advertised 4 guage and it's not, you're due a refund upon return of the wire.
Now, getting that refund may be a different story....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi Ken!
A 9" motor can be done on a Rabbit, but the motor
mount basically goes right up against the side frame
member of the car; ie, it is _tight_. Mike Brown did
it that way on VoltsRabbit #2. As far as Scirocco,
you'd probably be best off asking him directly, or
www.electroauto.com.
The 9" motor will yield significantly more torque.
Best to you on your conversion!
--- Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I finally found a donor car for my conversion
> project
> - a 1986 VW Scirocco. I think it's pretty much a
> sporty version of the Rabbit. Of course I have lots
> of
> questions.
>
> If anyone has any experience with a conversion of
> this
> vehicle, I'd really like to hear from you. Any
> special
> problems to watch out for, etc.
>
> Looking at some of the kits, it seems that the ADC
> 9"
> motor is too big (too long?) to fit the Rabbits. Is
> it
> also too big for the Scirocco? I also see that WarP
> has a 9" that is shorter. Any idea whether that
> would
> work? If so, is it a good choice?
>
> Or would a 9" motor be overkill? I'd like a peppy
> car
> but not a dragster. I'm thinking 120v flooded to
> keep
> it simple. The beginning curb weight is about 2,200
> lbs.
>
> The stock tires are 185/65-14. I reckon I should
> change to narrower tires. Or would changing to LRR
> be
> sufficient? If I need to change size, does anyone
> know
> if Rabbit wheels will fit?
>
> I'll quit for now. It's exciting to be getting
> started.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ken,
I was looking at a Scirocco conversion and even bought a 1984 in really good
condition. What EA told me is that with their kit only the 1984's and earlier
would work. They also mentioned that the 9" ADC would work as well.
Now that I have the Force, the Scirocco project is dead. Anyone need a glider?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: "Bob Bath"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 10/31/05 3:52:41 PM
To: "ev@listproc.sjsu.edu"<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Scirocco advise needed
hi Ken!
A 9" motor can be done on a Rabbit, but the motor
mount basically goes right up against the side frame
member of the car; ie, it is _tight_. Mike Brown did
it that way on VoltsRabbit #2. As far as Scirocco,
you'd probably be best off asking him directly, or
www.electroauto.com.
The 9" motor will yield significantly more torque.
Best to you on your conversion!
--- Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I finally found a donor car for my conversion
> project
> - a 1986 VW Scirocco. I think it's pretty much a
> sporty version of the Rabbit. Of course I have lots
> of
> questions.
>
> If anyone has any experience with a conversion of
> this
> vehicle, I'd really like to hear from you. Any
> special
> problems to watch out for, etc.
>
> Looking at some of the kits, it seems that the ADC
> 9"
> motor is too big (too long?) to fit the Rabbits. Is
> it
> also too big for the Scirocco? I also see that WarP
> has a 9" that is shorter. Any idea whether that
> would
> work? If so, is it a good choice?
>
> Or would a 9" motor be overkill? I'd like a peppy
> car
> but not a dragster. I'm thinking 120v flooded to
> keep
> it simple. The beginning curb weight is about 2,200
> lbs.
>
> The stock tires are 185/65-14. I reckon I should
> change to narrower tires. Or would changing to LRR
> be
> sufficient? If I need to change size, does anyone
> know
> if Rabbit wheels will fit?
>
> I'll quit for now. It's exciting to be getting
> started.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jimmy,
Have you also tried asking the question at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: "Jimmy Argon"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 10/29/05 9:31:28 AM
To: "ev@listproc.sjsu.edu"<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Solectria E-10 Fuse layout
I have recently downloaded the manuals available for
the E10 but I could not find a fuse layout. What I am
looking for are custom fuse assignments in the stock
fuse box (if any) and any fuse locations added by
sosolectria Presently, I need to find the fuse that
powers the drive motor cooling fans (it is not the
thermal switch on the ground lead). Any help is
appreciated.
Thanks Jimmy
--- End Message ---
