EV Digest 4878
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Where to buy GC batteries in Compton Ca.
by Justin Southam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Global EV map is growing
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Where to buy GC batteries in Compton Ca.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Water filling systems.
by "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Water filling systems.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Scirocco
by Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Zombie Data
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: wiring the garage for EVs...
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Water filling systems.
by "James F. Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: wiring the garage for EVs...
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: No Trasmission?
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Low HP brushless motors
by Marc Breitman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Global EV map is growing
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Global EV map is growing
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Global EV map is growing
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Goodyear Integrity tires, was Re: More about tires
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) It's an Electric Thing, you wouldn't understand....
by John David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Global EV map is growing
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Low HP brushless motors
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Global EV map is growing
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Global EV map is growing
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Including aux battery in chargeing string
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All, I've been asked to ask if anyone here has good contacts for buying
Trojan batteries in or around Compton Ca. The requester has contacts in
Compton who periodically send shipping containers to New Zealand. He is
hoping to import them directly from the US as anything but the locally
manufactured SLI batteries are very expensive here. IE Optima or Orbital
$400ea, generic GC $200+ea. Contacts for USBattery would be good too. I
recall seeing info before but never saved it as i didnt expect to have a
use for it. Thanks in advance.
Justin
Wellington
New Zealand
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28-10-05
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken, looks great - how do I edit my post? I forgot to add my URL to the
shout.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ken Trough
Sent: November 1, 2005 7:16 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu; Zappy List
Subject: Global EV map is growing
Just a follow-up to a previous announcement about the big EV map. This is a
global map for individuals, companies, and organizations that are involved
with electric transportation products or technologies.
So far we've had over 110 people sign up with the US, the UK, Norway and
Germany WELL represented along with entries from Canada, Australia, Sweeden,
Austria, Switzerland, and Scotland as well.
Show your EV pride and add yourself to the map today! It's free with no
registration required.
http://www.frappr.com/ev
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Justin,
Here is a Phone No. to Trojan where you can find shipment info and where to
purchase them in large wholesale lots. I had them deliver there batteries right
off the truck to my place if you buy in pallet loads. 1-800-423-6569
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Justin Southam<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 2:35 AM
Subject: Where to buy GC batteries in Compton Ca.
Hi All, I've been asked to ask if anyone here has good contacts for buying
Trojan batteries in or around Compton Ca. The requester has contacts in
Compton who periodically send shipping containers to New Zealand. He is
hoping to import them directly from the US as anything but the locally
manufactured SLI batteries are very expensive here. IE Optima or Orbital
$400ea, generic GC $200+ea. Contacts for USBattery would be good too. I
recall seeing info before but never saved it as i didnt expect to have a
use for it. Thanks in advance.
Justin
Wellington
New Zealand
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28-10-05
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was wondering if there isn't one of these systems to use as a single cap
for manual watering. I use a garden sprayer and look into the cell to check
the fill level. If I could hook up one of these caps to the sprayer it may
make filling the pack easier and take some of the guess work out of it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 5:26 AM
To: 'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'
Subject: RE: Water filling systems.
That is EXACTLY what I was looking for! Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: Rush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:03 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Water filling systems.
On another thread there was a question about filling systems.
Here are some links:
http://www.aquapro.net/
http://www.batteryfillingsystems.com/default.asp
I looked into getting a system and it seems that the cost was from about $6
to $9 per cell, so for a trojan that would be $18 to $24. I have a 30
battery system so it would have cost $540 to $720. more than I wanted to
spend.
They are both pretty similar systems.
I talked with both companies and they would give a quantity order a
discount. Anybody want to order some?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I said cooling a dc motor is not practical, I was talking more
about why bother if i am not able to seal the motor up. A series
wound brushed motor needs air for the brushes to evacuate the brush
dust and create the commutator film.
Correct me if I am wrong but there is no reason, other than economics of
quantity, why an AC motor should cost more than a DC motor. The AC
motor should have higher rpm bearings and better balance and maybe the
casting of the rotors is tricky, but the overall construction has less
parts. Running at higher rpm(which causes problems with brushes) allows
the AC motor to be made with less iron and copper for the same power
level(not torque, but power)
The controller has the double wammy of being less popular and needing 2x
to 4x the silicon (30% smaller per phase but 6 of them)
I think there is room for a lower cost AC controller, I would say
approximated sine below 1000rpm and 6 step above that would reduce
processor demandcost and increase effiency. ( I just don't know enough
to build one, my cofee can isn't even 1/2 full) what about a 2 phase
motor?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a single cap water system that does not required the battery cap to be
removed and reduces watering by up to 75%.
http://www.backeastsolar.com/pr_batteries_accessories_watermiser<http://www.backeastsolar.com/pr_batteries_accessories_watermiser>
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: ohnojoe<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)'<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ;
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:17 AM
Subject: RE: Water filling systems.
I was wondering if there isn't one of these systems to use as a single cap
for manual watering. I use a garden sprayer and look into the cell to check
the fill level. If I could hook up one of these caps to the sprayer it may
make filling the pack easier and take some of the guess work out of it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 5:26 AM
To: 'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'<mailto:'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'>
Subject: RE: Water filling systems.
That is EXACTLY what I was looking for! Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: Rush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:03 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Water filling systems.
On another thread there was a question about filling systems.
Here are some links:
http://www.aquapro.net/<http://www.aquapro.net/>
http://www.batteryfillingsystems.com/default.asp<http://www.batteryfillingsystems.com/default.asp>
I looked into getting a system and it seems that the cost was from about $6
to $9 per cell, so for a trojan that would be $18 to $24. I have a 30
battery system so it would have cost $540 to $720. more than I wanted to
spend.
They are both pretty similar systems.
I talked with both companies and they would give a quantity order a
discount. Anybody want to order some?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org<http://www.ironandwood.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Nov 2005 at 6:07, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Correct me if I am wrong but there is no reason, other than economics of
> quantity, why an AC motor should cost more than a DC motor.
I didn't think it did. My impression has been that in EV applications, the
DC drive has a cheaper controller and more expensive motor; and the AC drive
has the cheaper motor and more expensive controller.
I think one could argue that all motors are really AC machines, and that a
commutator is essentially a mechanical DC to AC inverter. (Not to be
confused with a commentator, who is a windbag. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andrew, I'll take your word for it. I'm not smart
enough (yet) to fully understand what you're talking
about.
Thanks
Ken
--- Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sounds like a good plan Ken.
> I wouldn't consider the extra cost of the 'Zilla
> "wasted", even when
> used with floodeds. It has the unique feature that
> you can set the
> _battery_ current limit separately from the motor
> current limit. Using
> this feature you can actually prolong the life of
> your floodeds by
> setting a low battery current limit while still
> having the full 1000A
> available in the motor loop. (I know it is
> counterintuitive, but the
> controller acts like a "DC transformer" and allows
> more current to flow
> in the motor loop than in the battery loop, when
> motor voltages are low,
> as in starting off from a stop.)
> cheers,
> Andrew
>
> Ken Albright wrote:
>
> >How about this for a plan:
> >
> >In the short term install the 9" motor, a
> well-behaved
> >charger, a 1K controller, and 15 8v floodeds.
> >
> >After I kill my first battery pack (sounds
> inevitable)
> >think about upgrading to Optimas, Orbitals, or
> >whatever looks good by that time. Not peppy now,
> but
> >maybe later.
> >
> >Besides the extra cost for the controller and the
> >charger, will I be wasting anything with this plan?
> >Can I reasonably expect the charger and controller
> to
> >still be good at the end of the life of the first
> >battery pack? Are there other components that will
> >have to be changed out with a battery upgrade?
> >
> >Thanks, Ken
> >
> >
> >--- "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>On Nov 1, 2005, at 6:54 AM, Ken Albright wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>When you said peppy was out the window, was that
> >>>because I'm thinking of using flooded batteries,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>not
> >>
> >>
> >>>because of the motor size or the voltage? Flooded
> >>>batteries can only deliver about 400 amps,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>regardless
> >>
> >>
> >>>of the voltage or configuration??? That would
> >>>
> >>>
> >>limit
> >>
> >>
> >>>the torque the motor could provide??? Is this all
> >>>correct?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Yes. Flooded batteries for EV service can deliver
> >>around 400 amps.
> >>Parallel strings of flooded batteries could
> deliver
> >>twice that, but at
> >>1/2 the voltage for a given number (weight) of
> >>batteries. Car starting
> >>batteries can deliver a lot more amps, but have
> >>around a 10 cycle life
> >>in deep cycle operation.
> >>
> >>Golf cart and Marine deep cycle batteries
> generally
> >>have 2 problems
> >>over 400 amps. First the voltage starts falling
> >>faster. Since power is
> >>volts times amps the power increases less as the
> >>amps rise. Second
> >>problem is that battery cycle life starts to take
> a
> >>hit. You end up
> >>replacing the batteries sooner increasing your
> cost.
> >>Marine batteries
> >>don't generally have anywhere near the cycle life
> of
> >>golf cart
> >>batteries in the first place, so this could really
> >>hurt. On the other
> >>hand, with about 1/2 the weight (and range)
> compared
> >>to golf cart
> >>batteries you can get a little bit of pep.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Is that all flooded batteries or just golf cart
> >>>batteries?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>I've learned a long time ago not to say "all" (or
> >>"none") very often.
> >>Someone will find an exception. The common flooded
> >>lead choices for on
> >>road EVs are golf cart batteries and marine deep
> >>cycle batteries. I'm
> >>not aware of any that like to deliver 600 amps.
> >>
> >>Its a power/ weight thing. Voltage times amps
> times
> >>motor efficiency
> >>divided by 746 is horsepower. This is generally
> set
> >>by your battery
> >>pack voltage (the voltage under load) and the
> >>controller current limit.
> >>If you load the Scirocco down to 3000lbs with 20
> >>golf cart batteries
> >>and then ask them to give 400 amps at 120 volts
> you
> >>will have a 3000
> >>lb. vehicle with about 50 HP. That will give you
> >>roughly the
> >>performance of a 36 HP Bug (like a stock oval
> window
> >>Bug.) I've driven
> >>stock 36 HP Bugs, but I don't consider them
> "peppy."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Is there a better combination of motor/batteries
> >>>without getting overly expensive or exotic? To
> >>>
> >>>
> >>stay at
> >>
> >>
> >>>3,000 lbs. GVW, looks like I'll have room for
> >>>
> >>>
> >>about
> >>
> >>
> >>>1,200 lbs. of lead. Do I just have to wait for
> >>>
> >>>
> >>peppy
> >>
> >>
> >>>until I can afford higher end batteries? If so,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>will
> >>
> >>
> >>>it make a difference in the long run whether I
> >>>
> >>>
> >>chose
> >>
> >>
> >>>the 8" or the 9" motor?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Well, the larger motors tend to be more efficient.
> >>But the difference
> >>is only a few percent. Both motor sizes seem to
> take
> >>the high peak amps
> >>of performance controllers just fine (thinking of
> >>the WarP and ADC
> >>motors often used in EVs.) With a range EV you
> >>should consider the
> >>summer temperatures and hills (or lack of them) in
> >>the motor choice.
> >>Its possible to have thermal issues with an 8 inch
> >>in a 3000 lb.
> >>vehicle if its being forced to move a lot of
> weight
> >>up and down hills
> >>for many miles at a time.
> >>
> >>The battery side is setting the limit. 13 Optimas
> or
> >>Exide Orbitals
> >>with a 'Zilla 1k would provide great pep, but
> >>limited range (perhaps 25
> >>miles.) You could have 135 HP in a 2400 lb.
> vehicle.
> >>The pack cost
> >>would be similar to 20 golf cart batteries but you
> >>would need a better
> >>charging system (regulators and a well behaved
> >>charger.) Battery life
> >>would be a combination of how well they are
> charged
> >>and how much of
> >>your range you use regularly. AGMs can last much
> >>longer than their
> >>published specs if you can limit regular discharge
> >>to not over 50%.
> >>Since you can't add water a brutal charging system
> >>can kill them is
> >>considerably fewer cycles than advertised.
> >>
> >>Paul "neon" G.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Mark Farver posts the Zombie's performance graphs and makes them
available at my request. The reasons I do this are many, but one of the
best, is so that the sharp minds here on the EVDL will analyze,
scrutinize, and report their opinions on what we are doing. It's like
having one big R&D family, isn't it?
Chris Brune wrote:
I have spent a fair amount of time looking at the data from Run #6 on 10/22
of the Zombie....I calculate that the run itself takes about 4.3 Ahr out of the
pack.
Very good, Chris. In fact, the Emeter showed 4.0 ahrs going back into
the pack after the early recharges before the batteries are up to full
power, and towards th end of the night as we are able to extract more
battery power due to hotter batteries, it takes about 4.2 -4.4 ahrs for
a refill. At the track, we do not fully top off the pack because of time
constraints, so when the charger hits its constant voltage stage I turn
it off when the current ramps down to ~8 amps or so.
From Rodney:
Hi Chris
Just wondering, when you did the analysis did you notice a significant
difference between the speeds when the Zilla switched from series to
parallel.
Rodney, since it's my car and I've spent a good deal of time driving it
down the track, I'll answer this for you. Your question is a bit
confusing as the answer seems pretty obvious, though. Of course there
is a difference in speeds. The shift point from series to parallel
happens at around 55-60 mph, sometimes at speeds of around 70 mph,
depending on controller settings. After that in parallel mode, the speed
rises as the car goes down the track to 104-106 mph for the distance of
a 1/4 mile.
For example, what was your max speed using the motors in series?
Answered above, but left in series mode without an automatic shift into
parallel, the car still hits 94-95 mph in the 1/4 mile. On an open road
where the limitation of the 1/4 mile distance is removed, and with the
current gearing the car would nearly hit the same top speed in series,
as it would in parallel, it just wouldn't get there as quickly.
Given that the controller was showing max Amps in series, I assume that was
the max speed?
No, not even close. As I said, when the car is kept from switching into
parallel, it still runs pretty hard and can easily top 100 mph. It only
hits the 55-70 mph in series on the track, because we force the shift
into parallel to occur in our efforts to have the car run quicker, not
faster. 1/4 mile drag racing is first and foremost. about acceleration,
not top speed. High top speeds are a byproduct of tremendous acceleration.
And then when the Zilla switched to parallel how did it alter
the top speed?
In the confines of a scant 1/4 mile, the extra acceleration blast of
shifting into parallel increases top speed from the mid 90's to 104-106
mph, or about 10 additional mph. We are not trying to see the highest
'top speed' in 1/4 mile drag racing, rather, we are trying to cover the
distance of 1/4 mile in the shortest possible time....it's acceleration
we're after, not top speed. I'll take an 11.9 @ 101 mph over a 12.2 @
106 mph, any day!
Back to top speed....in either series or parallel mode, the two limiting
factors to the car's top speed are max safe motor rpm and battery
capacity. The motor can only spin up to a certain rpm and still stay in
one piece, and the batteries can only belt out high currents for so long
before they sag too low. If I were to run a top speed test, I'd do it
minus the extreme rate of acceleration to get up to the 100 mph
area....this would save huge amounts of battery power and leave the bulk
of it for running a nice sustained top speed effort. Because the Siamese
8 motor is essentially two motors, when in series mode, they divide the
available voltage. If that's say, 200V, then each motor will only rev-up
to whatever rpm they can reach at 100V. In parallel mode with that same
200V supply, ignoring any additional sag for this discussion, each motor
will rev-up to whatever rpm they can reach at 200V.
In theory from my experience with this car, I'd say that top speed with
narrower tires to reduce drag, would be ~ 110 mph in the series mode and
~ 120 mph in the parallel mode. Remember, it's fitted with a super low
4:57 gear ratio for 'acceleration' not 'top speed'. Now, switch that
ratio out and put in, say a 3:10 ratio in back, and I'd bet this car
could hit 140-150 mph fairly easily....it certainly seems to have enough
power on tap to do this :-) It might be fun to lower it, do some areo
improvements, and run a 2:50 ratio to see what it would do on the salt
flats! 170 mph?
With White Zombie's current gear ratio, its lower powered brother, Blue
Meanie, can probably out run it on an open highway, as I suspect that
with its 50 psi inflated narrow LRR tires, its good power to weight
ratio, and with 3:90 rear gears, Blue Meanie could hit 125 mph. I have
no real stats to prove this, but my seat of the pants estimates have
served me well over the years.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the many replies... 4 wires to the sub-panel with separate
ground is clear. The benefit of a 40-amp circuit for the ICS charger is
also clear.
But....
Roland Wiench wrote:
If the second panel is more than 30 feet from the main panel, (30 foot
> walking) then the sub or branch panels, need to have a main circuit
> breaker in it. This distance will vary with the local codes.
Huh? As in the service entrance panel in the house should have a 100 amp
breaker for the line to the garage, and the garage panel should also
have a 100 amp breaker in it? I'd always thought the breaker went at the
beginning of the line, the house end in this case. Rather than
over-current protection for the wiring, is this more concerned with
convenience, providing a local way to shut down the entire sub-panel?
[overview: 200 amp service to the house, 1.25" conduit to 100 amp
sub-panel in the garage 60 feet away, circuits for 2 EV charger, space
heaters, tools, etc in that sub-panel]
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2005-11-02 at 07:14 -0700, Roland Wiench wrote:
> Here is a single cap water system that does not required the battery cap to
> be removed and reduces watering by up to 75%.
>
> http://www.backeastsolar.com/pr_batteries_accessories_watermiser<http://www.backeastsolar.com/pr_batteries_accessories_watermiser>
>
> Roland
I like it but at ~$4 per cap, that's $12 per battery. That ads up
awfully quick.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jim,
The distance will depend of your local codes. Sometimes, they what the user to
be able to shut down a main circuit breaker in case of a emergency that is at a
shorter distance and/or line of sight. Also some equipment that is out of
sight of the main panel, will require a fuse or un-fuse disconnect next to
that equipment.
In service entrance equipment rooms, where all the panels are in one room, you
may have a large service entrance panel with one main circuit breaker, like a
1000 amp circuit breaker. This feeds a power panel which will have only main
circuit breakers in it, like 10 each 100 amp circuit breakers.
One of these 100 amp circuits breakers can feed a lighting panel that is in the
same room that does not required another main breaker in that lighting panel.
If the other lighting panels are outside the equipment room, then that
lighting panel will need another main breaker if the distance is greater than
the local codes required or if the equipment room is lock, than the panel is
required to have a main breaker for it.
It's a requirement by NEC, that the user be able to shut down all the power
with six throws of the hand. This means you either have a single main circuit
breaker off the service entrance, or you could have up to a maximum of six main
circuit breakers off the service entrance or six circuit breaker only panel
that is a sub panel from the main panel that the distance is greater than what
is required by local codes.
Some local codes, do not want the six breakers only coming off the service
entrance without a main disconnect in residential areas. Many of them want you
to put a main disconnected at the service entrance.
In residential areas we was allow to put five 2-pole breakers before a 2-pole
main breaker, which made six breakers off the service entrance. They did not
like having these main breakers of 30 to 50 amp rating coming off the
transformer service, feeding a appliance. The circuit breaker could break down
and now you have the full current potential of the transformer on that
appliance.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Coate<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: wiring the garage for EVs...
Thanks for the many replies... 4 wires to the sub-panel with separate
ground is clear. The benefit of a 40-amp circuit for the ICS charger is
also clear.
But....
Roland Wiench wrote:
> If the second panel is more than 30 feet from the main panel, (30 foot
> walking) then the sub or branch panels, need to have a main circuit
> breaker in it. This distance will vary with the local codes.
Huh? As in the service entrance panel in the house should have a 100 amp
breaker for the line to the garage, and the garage panel should also
have a 100 amp breaker in it? I'd always thought the breaker went at the
beginning of the line, the house end in this case. Rather than
over-current protection for the wiring, is this more concerned with
convenience, providing a local way to shut down the entire sub-panel?
[overview: 200 amp service to the house, 1.25" conduit to 100 amp
sub-panel in the garage 60 feet away, circuits for 2 EV charger, space
heaters, tools, etc in that sub-panel]
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com<http://www.eeevee.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
It's still important to have an odometer and/or trip-odometer. Since I
removed the original 700R4 automatic and replaced it with an early '80's
truck 4-speed when I converted the truck, I bought a "tone wheel" and had a
local machinist bore a larger hole so it would press-fit over the driveline
yoke. I then mounted the original speed sensor next to it and it's been
working "externally" for 30K miles!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:05:15 -0800
>
>On Oct 31, 2005, at 1:27 PM, James Massey wrote:
>
>> The other catch is how do you drive the speedometer?
>
>In an EV without a transmission mark your tach in MPH.
>
>Paul
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ive been trying to locate a brushless motor for an ev project between 5 and
15 hp. Trying to keep it under 2k$. Any ideas?
BTW, the reason im looking is because right now i have an etek brush 8hp
cont 15 max i think?, and im under the influence that a brushless motor
actually uses less electricity for the same amount of torque and speed as a
brush. This project requires the absolute most efficiency and thus if the
gain over brushed is signifigant enough, i will need to invest in one.
~Marc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a great deal of trouble signing up for this. Frappr was slow, and
continuously rejected my attempt to create a profile. I will try again
today.
-Mike
On 11/1/05, Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Just a follow-up to a previous announcement about the big EV map. This
> is a global map for individuals, companies, and organizations that are
> involved with electric transportation products or technologies.
>
> So far we've had over 110 people sign up with the US, the UK, Norway and
> Germany WELL represented along with entries from Canada, Australia,
> Sweeden, Austria, Switzerland, and Scotland as well.
>
> Show your EV pride and add yourself to the map today! It's free with no
> registration required.
>
> http://www.frappr.com/ev
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM/YM - ktrough
> FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep. Same problem it says that "Winnipeg" is an invalid city.
On 11/2/05, Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I had a great deal of trouble signing up for this. Frappr was slow, and
> continuously rejected my attempt to create a profile. I will try again
> today.
> -Mike
>
>
> On 11/1/05, Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Just a follow-up to a previous announcement about the big EV map. This
> > is a global map for individuals, companies, and organizations that are
> > involved with electric transportation products or technologies.
> >
> > So far we've had over 110 people sign up with the US, the UK, Norway and
> > Germany WELL represented along with entries from Canada, Australia,
> > Sweeden, Austria, Switzerland, and Scotland as well.
> >
> > Show your EV pride and add yourself to the map today! It's free with no
> > registration required.
> >
> > http://www.frappr.com/ev
> >
> > -Ken Trough
> > Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> > http://visforvoltage.com
> > AIM/YM - ktrough
> > FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When it was first announced, I noticed that it was showing pointers on the
map for the folks who registered. (I figured at the time that I should
wait until my EV project is complete before putting myself in the list.)
Looking again today, I notice that the pointers are not showing up. I
suppose Frappr is having some problems? Is anyone else able to see them?
--chris
Mike Ellis said:
> I had a great deal of trouble signing up for this. Frappr was slow, and
> continuously rejected my attempt to create a profile. I will try again
> today.
> -Mike
>
>
> On 11/1/05, Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Just a follow-up to a previous announcement about the big EV map. This
>> is a global map for individuals, companies, and organizations that are
>> involved with electric transportation products or technologies.
>>
>> So far we've had over 110 people sign up with the US, the UK, Norway and
>> Germany WELL represented along with entries from Canada, Australia,
>> Sweeden, Austria, Switzerland, and Scotland as well.
>>
>> Show your EV pride and add yourself to the map today! It's free with no
>> registration required.
>>
>> http://www.frappr.com/ev
>>
>> -Ken Trough
>> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
>> http://visforvoltage.com
>> AIM/YM - ktrough
>> FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence and All,
My wife is also in the market to replace her Goodyear Integrity tires on
the 2004 Prius. I just read the feedback on tirerack.com that you
mentioned, and I would agree with the horrible tread-wear comments. I
religiously rotated them at 5K miles when doing an oil change (and checked
tire pressure or course!), and the tires were worn out at 25K, not to
mention that they didn't wear evenly. As far as handling on wet and snowing
roads, although the Prius traction control and ABS braking kept the buggy
out of the ditches, the wife won't be buying this model again as long as it
continues to snow here, LRR or not!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:12:41 -0700
>
>You might want to check out the Time for tires thread. My truck weighs
>about the same maybe a little less but within a few hundred pounds. I would
>think 1400 pounds would be plenty of capacity per tire. I'm looking at a 14
>inch tire. It might be good to find something with the same diameter as
>stock. As narrow as possible and with the highest load carrying capacity.
>I'm looking at a car tire now it is a 75 in height. 18 pounds weight and
>44psi.
>http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Goodyear&model=Integrity&vehicleSea
>rch=true&partnum=365SR7INT
>There is a 225 tire here but it only carries 1834 pounds of weight. The 205
>might be good also. Lighter in weight but still carries 1600 pounds. Still
>more than you need. These tires have horrible consumer feedback but I think
>it is because of user underinflation (caused by bad manufacturers pressure
>requirements) Some users got 60k use out of them. They do have bad feed
>back for wet handling also. So it sounds like a lrr tire. I'm going to try
>to find some used. Lawrence Rhodes......
>From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Subject: Re: Time for tires.
>Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:36:24 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>195/75 SR14
>These Integrities are perfect in diameter. Carry 1400 pounds max load and
>are the lightest of the tires that carry 1300 pounds or more. However read
>this scathing review.
>http://www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&tireMake
>=Goodyear&tireModel=Integrity&vehicleSearch=true&partnum=365SR7INT&commentStatus
>=P
>If someone says they're riding on the rims is that good for EV's?????
>Lawrence Rhodes...
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ricky Suiter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 9:09 AM
>Subject: Re: Time for tires.
>
>
>>I put a set of Goodyear Integrity tires on my Saturn. They come in a lot of
>>different sizes. I have no deffinitive proof they are LRR, but the web site
>>does state "fuel efficiency." I also know someone who had a production S-10
>>where the oem tigerpaw LRR tires were done so they replaced them with
>>Integrities which resulted in the same range for the truck. If nothing else
>>they do feel like they roll fairly nicely, and are rated for 44psi.
>>
>> Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:After 25 years and 6000
>> miles the 6.00 LT 45psi orginal equiptment tires on
>> the Electravan are real close to the wear bars. Didn't get much mileage.
>> Don't handle well. Poor range. Bias ply. I am looking at the Potenza
>> RE92 XL's that the First Prius uses. Lose an inch in diameter. Ultra 800's
>> have 205's that are just about right. Michelin also in a 225 has the right
>> diameter. . There are some Goodyear trailer tires that have a wide range
>> of
>> inflation and load carrying capacity.
>> http://www.goodyear.com/rv/pdf/rv_inflation.pdf Maybe they'd make a good
>> EV
>> tire.
>> I'm figuring using the tire that has the closest diameter to the orginal
>> equiptment and as narrow as possible without sacrificing load carrying
>> capacity. I figure running max pressure in any case. There are no LT tires
>> available in 14 inch anymore. Michelin recommends one but it is a P 225/70
>> 14
>> Lawrence Rhodes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Listers,
As hinted by my subject line, I'm now the proud owner of a 1973 Volkswagen
Thing, or Type 181, and am going to convert it to electric this winter.
Yahooo! I'm really excited about it and, even though I won't pick it up
until Thanksgiving, I can't wait to get started and I'm beginning the
planning process now. My goal is a very short range city commuter, thirty
miles minimum per charge at no more than 45 mph, with a ceramic heater (I
live in Maine). I of course want a good clean install that doesn't look like
a science project. I originally had a 72v Rabbit (Bob and Seth know what
Rabbit I'm talking about) with a 6.7" motor that had too much rust in places
I couldn't fix (places like the A pillar) so I had to pull all the
components out and scap it. I'm going to reuse as many of the components
from the Rabbit as I can but will replace some things like the charger and
maybe the controller, depending on what voltage I wind up going with.
As far as voltage goes, I think my only options are to keep the 72v system
or move up to 96v. I'll be using 6v floodeds and I doubt the car could
handle anything more than 96v. If I stick with 72v, I would be able to keep
the same controller and would only need to buy a smart charger to replace
the K&W I have now. If I went with 96v, I would have to go with a new
controller (the Curtis I have now maxes out at 72v) but from what I've been
told, the motor should be able to handle 96v with no problem. I might even
go with the 500 amp Curtis or possibly a 1k Zilla for some real punch.
Sixteen batteries with a 96v system might be tough to do. Mike Brown, one of
my heroes on this list, believes the Thing chasis can handle the weight of
96v of floodeds but I'm mostly worried about layout. I want to keep the back
seat and I want to keep the batteries as low as possible in the chasis. I
think I will be able to fit two in the engine bay, six in the trunk (in the
front), four under the rear seat, and four behind the rear seat. The four
behind the rear seat will be higher than I wanted but I don't have anywhere
else. Seventy-two volts would be a lot easier to layout than 96v. Two in the
bay, six in the trunk, and four under the rear seat. Plus, with 72v, I could
hold off on getting another controller for awhile.
Do the old air cooled VWs have vacuum assisted brakes or are they just
completely manual? I plan on converting to disc all around. I'm going to
keep the clutch because with just a 6.7", I'm sure I'll need to go through
the gears quite a bit.
I'm also considering doing the solar panel thing. Yes, I know a set of
panels on a house using the grid as a battery is better but I'm a renter and
that's not an option. I also know that it won't hugely increase my range but
it's something neat that I'd like to do. Plus, the Thing has lots of flat
surfaces that I can sink the panels into. I also have a hard top that I can
graft more panels into. How do you charge batteries with solar panels? Are
there DC to DC chargers?
If anyone has any advice, ideas, or criticisms please speak up. Thanks guys
and I can't wait to get to work on this.
John David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Yep. Same problem it says that "Winnipeg" is an invalid city.
Try "Winipeg". ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i have found wheel hub motors @$1586.80 ea and the controller for $875 ea .
they want the buyer to buy lots of 500 although i have asked for samples /
proto types .
is there anyone out there interested ?
the design critreia was for 2500lb car @65mph 144vdc battery pack 10 sec 0
to 60 . this was for 2 wheel motors per car .
i just recived their reply today 11/2/05 and they had 65kph as top speed i
sent a querry to see if their motor still is the same or do they need to
recheck their caculation .
if you are interested let me know i will keep anyone interested post using
the "list" fred
-------------- Original message --------------
> Ive been trying to locate a brushless motor for an ev project between 5 and
> 15 hp. Trying to keep it under 2k$. Any ideas?
> BTW, the reason im looking is because right now i have an etek brush 8hp
> cont 15 max i think?, and im under the influence that a brushless motor
> actually uses less electricity for the same amount of torque and speed as a
> brush. This project requires the absolute most efficiency and thus if the
> gain over brushed is signifigant enough, i will need to invest in one.
> ~Marc
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't even seee the map!?
Or do I have to register just to view?
Christopher Robison wrote:
Looking again today, I notice that the pointers are not showing up. I
suppose Frappr is having some problems? Is anyone else able to see them?
http://www.frappr.com/ev
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, Nov 02, 2005 at 05:52:49PM -0500, Jim Coate wrote:
> I can't even seee the map!?
> Or do I have to register just to view?
>
What browser are you using?
It works for me in Firefox, but not Konqueror.
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I realize the 12V and dieing behavior would be a negative but would it
work to charge at 300 volts all 25 batteries, the bottom most is the 12
V aux battery. But drive off of the top 24(288V) of batteries. Using a
typical rv battery isolator or a small contactor to isolate during drive
mode.
---- is 10 gauge
=== is 2/0
ie
o---------PFC20 @300V-----------------------------------------------o
| ___ |
--[auxbat]------o o====[bat1]===[bat2]===[bat3]===[bat4]=....=[bat24]=||
| | K1 || ||
| | \\ //
o--12V system--o| =======controller=====motor====================
K1 would be energized during charging only and regulators would allow
for missmatch.
Placeing external load on this first regulator probably stongly reccommended
Am I missing a fundumental leakage path?
--- End Message ---
