EV Digest 4957
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: A Dumb Old Laptop Can Be Pretty Slick Tool
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: House Power
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV Drag Racing Changing Minds
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) circuit breaker
by "george michals" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Fourth Generation Pot
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Any one have experience shipping wet cells?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Walmart Heater Cooks
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: circuit breaker
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: A Dumb Old Laptop Can Be Pretty Slick Tool
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Electric Imp info
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Other charger stuff.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Am I Killing Batteries?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Was there ever a definitive answer on the temperature dot question?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Any one have experience shipping wet cells?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Any one have experience shipping wet cells?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Walmart Heater Cooks
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Walmart Heater Cooks
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Any one have experience shipping wet cells?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Any one have experience shipping wet cells?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Running Time?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Running Time?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Tango News ...an' Stuff.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Running Time?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Running Time?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, Dec 01, 2005 at 10:54:13PM -0500, Neon John wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 14:16:56 -0800, "Roger Stockton"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> >The question is really if it makes sense to stick with ASCII format data
> >*packets* when several devices are going to be connected to share a
> >single communication bus.
<..snip..>
> It's not an either-or situation in most cases. Bandwidth is cheaper'n
> dirt now.
> Not excuse whatsoever to run a bus at a snail's pace like 9600.
Isn't true that slower speeds are more immune to interference?
<..snip..>
>
> As far as ASCII packet, YES, YES, YES!!! I've spent WAAAAYYY too many
> hours staring at a protocol analyzer screen with a cheat sheet right
> next to it, looking back and forth, trying to keep my place in the
> packet while trying to figure out what the 4th bit of the 33rd byte
> means when it's set.
If you make a plugin to ethereal, it can decode your data for you.
In general, I tend to agree with you though.
> It doesn't really matter either way when the
> system is working but ASCII data sure makes troubleshooting a lot
> easier.
Agreed.
>
> As far as bus bandwidth goes, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense in
> a low volume production situation to try to hang the world off one
> port. Silicon is so cheap now that it makes sense to allocate a
> hardware port per peripheral or per every few peripherals.
It makes you less prone to failures on a single device or section of
bus as well.
<..snip..>
>
> To heck with all the
> potential problems that hubs and multi-hops bring if I can do it
> one-on-one.
This is very true, the migration from bus to star network topologies has
improved reliability greatly.
> Being a hardware-oriented guy, I'd rather throw cheap silicon at a
> problem than expensive programmer hours. Both now and with future
> maintenance and modifications.
Agreed 100%, if you have a purpose built system that you can get in IC,
this is generally a better deal. IMHO.
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 11/30/05, Don Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This question should be popular with the California EV owners:
>
> My electric utility provider to my residence has been less than 100%
> reliable. I have
> some health related issues (Diabetic/must keep insulin cold). Instead of an
> ICE
> powered generator, if I were to install a voltage inverter on my EV to power
> AC
> appliances, how many amps would my EV provide to these appliances? Or do I
> need an
> inverter? How or where in the circuit might I place a 110V AC outlet? What is
> the total
> wattage or amps I can get off of 102 volt traction pack to power AC
> appliances? Or how
> would I set up a string of batteries in my cellar for battery back up to my
> residential
> power? Just thinking of alternatives to an expensive, noisy, smelly
> traditional gasoline
> fueled generator.
Yes, an EV makes a good "emergency backup" power supply. I recently
did this during a long power cut at home. I used a Trace UX512 500W,
12V inverter as I happen to have a few of these in stock - they are
the old-fashioned kind with a line frequency transformer, producing a
"quasi sine wave". They are however bullet-proof and handle overloads
well.
My EV was fully charged so I switched the ignition on to keep the
(1kW!) DC-DC inverter running, and connected the inverter to the 12V
battery. I then pulled the supply fuse and locked off the main switch
in the house's consumer unit, and temporarily wired the inverter to
the bus-bars using an extension cable.
So, the whole house was running on the 500W inverter. I made sure not
to overload it by switching on anything too big: kettle or washing
machine etc, but I was happily using TV, lights, computer,
fridge/freezer all as normal. The lights would flicker slightly when
the fridge compressor started.
This only used less than 10% of the car's energy for the evening's
use, so I was able to drive to work the next day and charge up there..
could have repeated indefinitely, but the power came back :)
Be careful if you are going to use a cheap "rubbish grade"
high-frequency inverter. They trip under load more easily and may
have trouble running something like a fridge. I also have a big stack
of broken ones that people have given me to repair, but it's not
usually worth it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It was just a few years ago back in 2002 when I was 16. Just
one internet search, I made as a joke thinking such a thing
didn't exist, I typed in "high performance" and "electric
car". Subsequently, I caught glimpse of the TZero raping a
Porsche 911 Carrera 4 on video.
That certainly got me interested in EVs.
Further searches led me to John Wayland's wicked creations,
your wheelie-popping RX7, Screaming Yellow Zonker, and the
Zytec Lotus Elise. The drag racing made a significant impact
on my views towards this technology. I then realized that I
wanted to own and drive a car like those above. It would be
the ultimate in shock value at the race track!
Forward one year to the Iraq War, rapidly increasing oil
prices, unmet demand for electric vehicles, and growing
concerns about America's oil dependence and I was sold on
the concept for good. Now I'm building one, slowly but
surely...
This letter reminded me of how I came to decide that I
wanted to build a high performance electric car, and
precisely why I'm majoring in Electrical Engineering today.
Thanks for sharing that Rod.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK John since you mentioned my name specifically I will answer you. As some
know on this list I sometimes speak my mind. I will do this on this
occasion. There were several people approached on this project. I was one of
them. The best way for me to explain my opinion is to include a couple of
rather pointed letters to Brijit Griffith from Monster Garage. She may know
one end of a pencil from the other but that is it. From what little I could
get from her she did not understand automobiles.These letters should serve
to tell you of my concerns with this particular build. As a side note, all
items used on the build become their property. I offered to lend them a Z2k
and also donate some electrical components. I wish Rich well on this but I
have to say that I think he may be walking into a trap. They will not tell
him hardly anything
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Brijit Griffith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 1:21 AM
Subject: Some things to consider
Hi Brijit,
I thought I might give you some friendly advice and some things to think
about. All the people involved in leading edge, high performance electric
cars are all very intelligent, creative and aware individuals. They will
all be able to tell if your project is feasible. They are intelligent
enough to know if this project is doomed to failure from the beginning and
they will not get involved with you if this is the case . There are
certain elements that have to be in place and agreed upon for this to
happen.
!) The adaptor of the electric motor to the transmission of your proposed
vehicle will have to be made ahead of time. These are custom hand built
machined items, they do not come off the grocery shelves like most of the
products you use on your show.
2) This applies to the charger as well
3) Performance controllers are also hand built and very expensive. They
are not mass produced by a large corporation that can write off donating
one to the show. The best case scenario is to allow the build team to
borrow one.
4} You will need to pick one key member of the team soon as this vehicle
will require batteries. They can be obtained through sponsorship but this
takes some time due to the structure of corporations and when their
marketing meetings are. There are less than a handful of Amp Heads in
this country who have the credibility and track record and have been able
to get battery sponsorship. If the above issues are dealt with there may
be enough in the build budget to purchase them.
I hope this serves to help you in your selection process and the show. I
would love to see a successful build!
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA President
Here is my last letter. I received no response to requests to speak to their
technical advisor and very little response from Brijit. They have an agenda
and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the build. Just my opinion from
dealing with these non responsive folks.
Hi Brijit,
Would you put your arm in a meat grinder being quite certain that it would
be ground off?
Roderick
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
Rich Rudman wrote:
Madman does Monster Garage..
I kind of like that. Has a nice ring to it.
It seems the coordinator(s) of this episode sure as hell
knows what they're doing if they're lookibg for your help.
Mr. Wayland and Mr. Wilde care to chime in? <g>
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello folks,
Question how do you choose/size a circuit breaker for your systems? Say
144VDC pack 1000A controller?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
Anyone ever used the stock throttle position sensor in a conversion from
a fuel injected vehicle?
the benifits I can see are it would be designed for the throttle cable,
great springs,very robust, and the cruise control would connect to it.
I always do.
http://www.metricmind.com/images/throttle_pot.jpg
Everything else will fail before this machine will.
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ot and I are not into giving away 5000 dollar controllers and $2000
chargers... We have all the PR and orders we can deal with.
We would gladly "loan" the gear.. but that may not be what happens.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
> > Yea.. all that stuff they are not telling me about....
> > So I get to fend with what they get.
> > This could be a real challenge... without our spiffy Chargers and
controller
> > and ......meters...and..
> > My night mare is a pile of floodeds and a few dozzen contactors....
> >
> > Oh Well... We gona have fun one way or the other....
> >
> > Madman.
> >
>
> Surely you can convince Ot to show up with the appropriate Freebie (good
> advertising)!
>
> And is Gadget invited, or is he too 15 minutes ago?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks...
Who else????
Rev Gadget??? He's kinds involved since his own show is done by the same
production company.
I have not heard anyone else officially.
Rich Rudman
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 7:13 PM
Subject: RE: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
> Congratulations Rich!
>
> It's cool to know there will be at least be 2 NEDRA members on the
> show. Yea!!
>
> With all that knowledge and expertise I'm pretty sure it will be a
> successful build.
>
> From what I understand the show will air in February.
>
> See ya!!
>
> Chip Gribben
> NEDRA Webmaster
> http://www.nedra.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Boy I sure Hope I do...
I do this kinda stuff all day....
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> >Madman does Monster Garage..
>
> I kind of like that. Has a nice ring to it.
>
> It seems the coordinator(s) of this episode sure as hell
> knows what they're doing if they're lookibg for your help.
>
> Mr. Wayland and Mr. Wilde care to chime in? <g>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Consider pouring electrolyte out and ship them as dry cells then.
Shipping requirements for dry ones are more relaxed.
Perhaps electrolyte can be shipped in a separate container, but it
may be easier to just make new electrolyte from chemicals on
receiving end.
Just a thought...
Victor
Paul Wallace wrote:
I am attempting to ship some SAFT STM nicads across country. Has anyone
done this? I need to know what shipper you used and what the packaging
requirements were. I am trying to find out now if USPS will handle
them. UPS looks like a no go for non contract shippers.
I would ship them completely discharged with the end cell water
connections plugged. The electrolyte should be completely absorbed in
this charge state. I'm attempting to get individual battery shipping
boxes from SAFT.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 1, 2005, at 6:17 PM, Richard Rau wrote:
This looks good for me too because of my pack voltage of 228. eBay
doesn't
show them in the US. Does anyone know of these 230V heaters in this
country? Or, is there a kind soul in the UK who will ship two of them
to
me?(for a fee of course)
The ceramic heaters I found had 4 elements and 5 connectors. They could
be wired for either 120 volt service or 240 volt service. Try taking an
inexpensive ceramic heater apart and have a look. It has got to be
cheaper than buying something in pounds and paying for transatlantic
shipping.
Paul (take something apart - its fun) G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Often, the Heinemann brand DC circuit breakers are used, such as the
GJ1-B3-DU0250-01C.
These are used more to manually break the circuit by operating the
lever. Though they will trip on an overcurrent condition, usually a fast
current-limiting semiconductor fuse is used (in addition to the circuit
breaker, not replacing) to prevent excessive damage to the controller.
Often, the circuit breaker is placed in the "center of the pack" (i.e.
between batteries 6 and 7 if you have 12 batteries).
george michals wrote:
Hello folks,
Question how do you choose/size a circuit breaker for your systems? Say
144VDC pack 1000A controller?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This seems to me to be a moot point.
The e-meter can't share a bus without additional hardware.
AFAIK all of the bus architectures that allow bus sharing can run at MUCH
higher data rates so bandwidth shouldn't be an issue.
If you are going to put an E-meter on such a bus (why?) then you'll need
to add some kind of interface to do the conversion, and it could just as
easily do buffering and data rate conversion.
> The issue is that of limited bandwidth. An E-Meter sends data at
> 9600bps, and generates a report once every second, so sending the data
> in ASCII format really doesn't impose any limitation on its ability to
> report its data. However, if you connect 10 such devices to the same
> 9600bps bus, you run into the problem of not having enough bandwidth for
> every device to report its data once per second if the data is in ASCII
> format. You could address this either by accepting that data will be
> reported less frequently, or you can report the data in a more efficient
> format.
>
> The downside of reporting in non-ASCII format is that someone can't
> simply hook a dumb terminal directly to the bus and monitor the data
> directly on their screen; an intelligent dongle is required that
> receives the non-ASCII data packets from the bus and forwards them to
> the terminal translated to plain ASCII (or equivalently, a program
> running on a PC could do this instead of using a simple generic terminal
> program).
>
> This is exactly the same situation that we all have with our PCs today.
> If you network two PCs together to exchange data, you can send a plain
> text email or file between the machines, and view it as plain ASCII at
> either end, but you cannot (generally) hook up a dumb terminal to the
> wire between the machines and view the ASCII data directly because it
> has been reformatted into data packets with headers and trailers and
> checksums for error detection, etc.
>
> The question is really if it makes sense to stick with ASCII format data
> *packets* when several devices are going to be connected to share a
> single communication bus. The implication of doing this is that the
> amount of data that can be sent is drastically reduced relative to what
> could be sent over the same channel in non-ASCII format. So, do people
> think it is more important to get data infrequently, but be able to view
> it directly on the bus in ASCII format, or to get data more frequently
> without the ability to view it directly on the bus in ASCII format (the
> data can still be logged in ASCII format, regardless of the format it
> comes over the bus in)?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cliff, I looked for it on your site for a while, but didn't see
any description of the trouble (unintended acceleration).
Was it hardware malfunction?
Can you please elaborate a bit what happened or point to specific
page describing it?
I want (perhaps even need) to know details [to offer help].
Thanks,
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
We added two race reports to www.ProEV.com last week. One is from
our May 15
autocross with video, pictures and graphs. The other is from our
first road
race at the Homestead-Miami Speedway. We had some problems with a
weird
unintended acceleration glitch. Any opinions would be appreciated.
http://www.proev.com/P1RaceH.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh yea... other things have been happening at Manzanita Micro..
Besides TV Stardom....
Joe and I got the PFC40L to make rated power this evening. Acouple tweaks
and changes, and we sucked 56 peak amps through a PFC30 power stage...
Yea that's more than I let PFC50s make. And no smoke or fire.... NICE!
We got some of the noise issues handled. And We can make and sustain 40 amps
of grid power(227 volts of really soft 240.) We did this for about a hour,
the main torroid got to 150 F but no hotter, the water temp never got over
100 Deg F, and the thermal cutback never went active from just the load.
We were making about 8300 to 8400 watts from 9080 watts of Grid power.. for
a 94.8 % conversion efficientcy. Which puts this Devo Mule in the top 3
chargers I have buildt. Not a bad evening.
I upped the water flow to 52.9 Gallons a hour....17 seconds per quart...If
you need to know.. and this dropped the Delta T to 3 degrees at full power.
I do not have peak full power temp numbers yet.
But clearly with a damn good pump... and radiator, this unit won't have much
problems belting out the watts. A neat test is killing the cooling pump, and
letting it cook it self back to 20 amps... like smoking hot IGbts... then
flip the pumps on and it takes less than 10 seconds for it to cool off and
resume full 40 amps of draw. Now that's a fast response to restored cooling!
I need to stiffen my load bench grid feed to have a solid 240 Vac at the
design currents needed. So I don't short change the power I can pump from
the grid.
Water cooling is NICE... LOTs of power in a small package. I need to
find the peak water temp that the unit can make full power on when being
pumped with the volume, this lets me stake a claim to the highest temp that
I can live with. This is pretty important in making a hot weather charging
system. Of course the goal is full power in Texas or Phoenix in mid summer,
and NO cut backs!!
This is still a point that I can't do with air cooling.. and it hacks me
off!!
Rick Woodburry... your Tango charger.. is basicly ready for testing. We ran
it for hours at 281 volts that is the peak you run on the Tangos. This
makes the Power grade you needed.
Not taking orders yet..... The rest of you listers... hang on to your money
until I get some more track time on this product. But... I have run 50,000
to 60,000 watt hours through this charger since last Friday when I assembled
it. Before Rick gets his hands on it I bet I pump .250 Megwhr with it.
And I have boxes of Caps for the smaller charger and the the Big Black
bommer Caps for the PFC50s... I was risking a 20 week lead time for these
items, Thanks to Richardson Electronics for coming through when I really
needed it. I can breathe again... back in business....That was close.
The Monster charger..75K is still alive... it's getting better an better in
the automated features and cooling controls.. Heats the shop up when it's
snowing out.... I am glad we are not doing charger testing in mid summer...
Pumping around 50Kw of power would be uncomfortable in the summer...now it
just feels real good to thaw hands out on the NiChrome....
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you might have your current limit set WAY to high.
CCA assumes a fully charged battery, just because a battery can handle
500+ amps when fully charged doesn't mean that it can still handle that
much when 50% discharged.
I managed to get good life out of my 8V GC batteries by never taking the
current over 300 amps, and when they got older I limited it to 250 amps.
You're using 12V batteries with even thinner walls. I'd guess you should
limit the current to 250 amps or less, if you want them to live for more
than 6 months. However, at this point it may be too late.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ricky Suiter
> To: EV List
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 10:30 AM
> Subject: Am I Killing Batteries?
>
>
> Alright, I've had the Saturn running for a couple months now and I'm in
> the process of getting the 2nd, maybe 3rd battery replaced already. I'm
> using Twelve Trojan 30XHS batteries, which I realize aren't that great for
> EV use, but I went in to it not expecting long range or huge cycle life.
> GEM car's use this same battery and tend to get a good 3 years out of
> them. I've got my current limit set to 500 amps, and I think the highest
> I've ever seen for one split second was 400 amps, normally I never draw
> more than 200. Even thought they're deep cycle they do have a CCA rating
> for crying out loud, which I realize isn't a good measure but it suggests
> they're capable of decently high currents.
>
> For cycling I generally do not take them past 50%. Once I had it down to
> 35%, but it was far from total battricide. I've kept them watered
> properly, I've kept the terminals tightened and clean as well.
>
> The first one died about a week in to it with a flat dead cell which
> didn't have any measurable sg what so ever, so it was a pretty clear
> replacement call. They said at Sunbelt they hadn't seen one do that in
> nearly 3 years. So I was good for a couple months, until a few weeks ago
> when I noticed after a couple miles I had no power. I stuck my volt meter
> to all the batteries and found one was down around 9 volts. I tried saving
> it, but it didn't do much. What's wierd is it acts perfectly normal until
> a certain point then it drops quickly. This one I've already been told has
> several shorted cells, I droped them off for testing yesterday. The one
> that was next to it in the pack was also exhibiting similar behavior, but
> not nearly as bad. I am still waiting to hear if it too is suffering from
> the same issue.
>
> So thus far I've had 2 or maybe 3 batteries have to be replaced, so what
> am I doing wrong here? I thought I was doing things right here. The rest
> of the pack is holding up like a champ. I've confirmed with two separate
> sources I'm charging properly (exactly as per Trojan's specs). I've done a
> couple equalizing charges also along the way. Is it possible I just got an
> iffy batch of batteries?
>
>
>
>
> Later,
> Ricky
> 02 Insight
> 92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
> Glendale, AZ USA
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
>
>
>
>
>
> Later,
> Ricky
> 02 Insight
> 92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
> Glendale, AZ USA
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark, I was referring to the terminals, in order to detect bad (high
resistance) connections.
Mark Grasser wrote:
All my battery research says that 80 degF is the perfect "happy
battery" temperature and that for every 18 deg above 80 deg you
shorten the life of the battery by 50 percent.
Mark Grasser
----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:07 AM
Subject: Was there ever a definitive answer on the temperature dot
question?
That is, if one were to affix non-reversable temperature dots to
battery terminals, what would be "too warm" of a temperature?
From reading the posts, and common sense, it seems that a temperature
that's a little above the maximum ambient in your area would be
appropriate. Maybe 125°?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know about shipping them, but regarding removing the
electrolyte first, I don't think it's a good idea with STMs:
"Never drain the electrolyte in the monoblocks"
"If monoblocks have lost their electrolyte by accident (drop, spills,
mishandling, etc...) it may be necessary to replenish the electrolyte.
This can only be done in a Saft factory by Saft specialists. Please
contact us without fail."
"to avoid any spilling of electrolyte during transport, the monoblocks
are fitted with transport plugs"
I guess this means plugs in the two watering circuit connections.
There's no other access to the cell internals.
Regards
Evan
On 12/2/05, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Consider pouring electrolyte out and ship them as dry cells then.
> Shipping requirements for dry ones are more relaxed.
>
> Perhaps electrolyte can be shipped in a separate container, but it
> may be easier to just make new electrolyte from chemicals on
> receiving end.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> Victor
>
> Paul Wallace wrote:
> > I am attempting to ship some SAFT STM nicads across country. Has anyone
> > done this? I need to know what shipper you used and what the packaging
> > requirements were. I am trying to find out now if USPS will handle
> > them. UPS looks like a no go for non contract shippers.
> >
> > I would ship them completely discharged with the end cell water
> > connections plugged. The electrolyte should be completely absorbed in
> > this charge state. I'm attempting to get individual battery shipping
> > boxes from SAFT.
> >
> > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Paul Wallace
> > '91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, never mind then. I had no idea SAFT has specific instructions
against it for STM (never owned them), although I can't
understand technical reasons for disallowing draining.
Better stick to what they recommend.
Victor
Evan Tuer wrote:
I don't know about shipping them, but regarding removing the
electrolyte first, I don't think it's a good idea with STMs:
"Never drain the electrolyte in the monoblocks"
"If monoblocks have lost their electrolyte by accident (drop, spills,
mishandling, etc...) it may be necessary to replenish the electrolyte.
This can only be done in a Saft factory by Saft specialists. Please
contact us without fail."
"to avoid any spilling of electrolyte during transport, the monoblocks
are fitted with transport plugs"
I guess this means plugs in the two watering circuit connections.
There's no other access to the cell internals.
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I see few PTC heaters on Ebay France too though on the 30$ side (1800W)
it's funny because i imported from USA 2 PTC heater because you use 120V as
my car...and you are importing from europe because you need 230V :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 3:17 AM
Subject: RE: Walmart Heater Cooks
> This looks good for me too because of my pack voltage of 228. eBay
doesn't
> show them in the US. Does anyone know of these 230V heaters in this
> country? Or, is there a kind soul in the UK who will ship two of them to
> me?(for a fee of course)
> Thanks, Richard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Evan Tuer
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 2:39 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Walmart Heater Cooks
>
> John, I just bought an heater that looks identical to that in the UK,
> called "BIONAIRE" and apparently it was sold at John Lewis. I got it
> for £6 on ebay.
>
> *However* it is a 230V, 2kW unit, unlike the US ones which I guess are
120V.
>
> Since you have 216V, it should be a good match.
>
> Regards
> Evan
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release Date: 12/1/2005
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John
Patrick - for the benefit of us "Ev"rs in the U.K could you post a picture
or a link to which Walmart ceramic heater you used , so we can try and find
it in our discount stores over this side of the pond. Its getting pretty
cold this time of year without a heater in my ev.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/668.html
I found some 240V ceramic heaters in B & Q the other month for
an absurdly cheap price, like 17 pounds each.
This has a 240V ceramic element, 2400 watts output.
I also go over to Canada once every year or two, and can get
120V elements for similar money from Canadian Tire or Walmart.
I've got a pair in the Mini, with 3kW of heating it gets nice & toasty,
even with just 108 V on the present pack of 9 buddy-pairs...
Let me know if you want some of the 120V ones...
P.S. the elements seem to be a perfect fit into a late-type Mini
heater box ( the plastic one with bigger windscreen ducts ).
Regards
--
Richard Bebbington
electric Mini pickup
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/electric.mini/
www.supralectrix.co.uk
UK dealer for Netgain EV motors!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's simple:
technicaly, customer don't have required tools nor hability nor knowledge
(secrets here...) to make correct STM5 electrolyte dosage.
So don't (NEVER) drain
discharge to zero if you want but it's not required if batteries are
"sealed" during shipment.
Be careful to crate them against bumps, they don't like impact at all !
In fact just ship them as Saft advise :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Any one have experience shipping wet cells?
> OK, never mind then. I had no idea SAFT has specific instructions
> against it for STM (never owned them), although I can't
> understand technical reasons for disallowing draining.
>
> Better stick to what they recommend.
>
> Victor
>
> Evan Tuer wrote:
> > I don't know about shipping them, but regarding removing the
> > electrolyte first, I don't think it's a good idea with STMs:
> >
> > "Never drain the electrolyte in the monoblocks"
> >
> > "If monoblocks have lost their electrolyte by accident (drop, spills,
> > mishandling, etc...) it may be necessary to replenish the electrolyte.
> > This can only be done in a Saft factory by Saft specialists. Please
> > contact us without fail."
> >
> > "to avoid any spilling of electrolyte during transport, the monoblocks
> > are fitted with transport plugs"
> >
> > I guess this means plugs in the two watering circuit connections.
> > There's no other access to the cell internals.
> >
> > Regards
> > Evan
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Consider pouring electrolyte out and ship them as dry cells then.
> Shipping requirements for dry ones are more relaxed.
You don't want to do this with lead acids! The process for "dry charging" a
battery is a bit more involved than just dumping the electrolyte out.
It might work for nicads, though; I don't know. The challenge would be to keep
oxygen and carbon dioxide away from the exposed plates.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All;
Can anybody off hand, tell me what to expect, timewise for running T
145's at 40 amps, continusly? Like running an inverter for a buncha
Christmas lites. Guessing at 4-5 hours? Think the'll do that?
Thanks
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob, the 145 designation is the minutes of capacity at a 75 amp draw so my
best guesstimate would be close to 4 hours because 40 amps is almost half
the draw and we all know about Peukerts, right.
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 6:43 AM
Subject: Running Time?
Hi All;
Can anybody off hand, tell me what to expect, timewise for running T
145's at 40 amps, continusly? Like running an inverter for a buncha
Christmas lites. Guessing at 4-5 hours? Think the'll do that?
Thanks
Bob
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release Date: 12/1/2005
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release Date: 12/1/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:30 AM
Subject: Tango News ...
> BOY ... I hope Rick or some one gets back to the NY Post, and get's them
> to print some corrections....
> Like.... The car came from Spokane Washigton
> and .... Production Models will not cost $85,000.
> and.... George LOVES his Custom Made Tango car !
>
> (I have been talking to Bill Moore of EV-World, and with all his
> connections, trying to get Bill to track down George for an INTERVIEW
> and Report on how George likes his car ..but I guess he's a pritty busy
> guy... Two movies in one year )
>
>
> Rick Woodbury said:
>
> >> I got a call from a fellow in NY yesterday who saw an article on
> George >> Clooney's Tango in the NY Post.
>
>
> I can't find the NY Post article online, but Google News dug up this one
> from UPI, posted yesterday:
>
> http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20051129-012906-5730r
>
> This is the first report I've seen of Clooney's Tango from a mainstream
> (non-EV-related) source.
>
> --chris
> Hi All;
FEH! Not much of a report there! They gave it mention, but didn't
really tell you much. They, thre "media" doesn't want YOU to know about
ANYTHING that they aren't getting millions of ad revenue. Telling about EV's
in a favorable light is rocking the boat (Titanic)ad wise. Didn't GM pull
their ads in LA over the EV-1 Follies in Burbank?When " Don't Crush" was our
ONLY news line here in Corrupticut.
We can expect more Non News about EV's in the future. 'cept, maybe
somebody doing a "Cannonball Run" Blasting across the USA in a couple of
daze, maybe two, maybe a few more, charge(Press) stops?Yes! AC Propulsion,
ya guyz ready?! It thern might make the "NY Daily Snooze"Wall Street Urnal",
or EVen the" New Haven Register" A real paper, didn't make that up<g>!
My two issues worth
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bob,
I run the same T-145's you do. Looking back at all my records, it will be
about 244 minutes or about 4 hours if you took them down to 10%. At 20% it
will be about 216 minutes or 3.6 hours. At 50% it would be about 135 minutes
or about 2.25 hours.
The T-145's are rated at 75 amps at 145 minutes down to about 10 percent.
I normally drive at 40 amps for about 20 minutes a day. I can drive for 6 days
before it gets down to about 50% or about 120 minutes or 2 hours.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Rice<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 7:43 AM
Subject: Running Time?
Hi All;
Can anybody off hand, tell me what to expect, timewise for running T
145's at 40 amps, continusly? Like running an inverter for a buncha
Christmas lites. Guessing at 4-5 hours? Think the'll do that?
Thanks
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Running Time?
> Bob, the 145 designation is the minutes of capacity at a 75 amp draw so my
> best guesstimate would be close to 4 hours because 40 amps is almost half
> the draw and we all know about Peukerts, right.
> Hi Rod;
Thanks for the ideas. These T 145's have it made; no 400 amp launches, just
sitting there in a warm room, for a X mas display, running a 400 watt
inverter, pretty close to flat out. I thought it would be easier than
running chords around the Hall, loading the 2 batteries in a kid's coaster
wagon, origional "Power Wagon" for portable power, just drag it in and turn
it on.I was surprised at how much on the primary side, those inverters can
draw! The load is a buncha cheezy, Chinezy strings of lights, string o' 100
for 2 bux sort of thing.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
