EV Digest 4964
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: KTA Services Website, other Stuff.
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: KTA Services Website
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Getting a Washington State Title
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV digest 4960
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Link-10
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Link-10
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Batteries: Can you explain what happens?
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Link-10
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Link-10
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re:Toyota Yaris and plug-in hybrid Prius conversions.
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Link-10
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) conversion kits
by canev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: circuit breaker follow up
by Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Another battery brand
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) RE: Another battery brand
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Connecting Muliple 12V battery chargers?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) RE: Another battery brand
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Am I Killing Batteries?(+)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Another battery brand
by Chris Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: KTA Services Website
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
In fact i just see an article which say Mercedes is brainstorming about
introducing the smart to USA, final decision for 2006...
The toyota i speak about is named Yaris.
Funny we have oposit difficulties: USA permit E-conversion but don't have
modern tiny commuter cars, then we have such cars in europe but can't
convert them and drive on French roads because too restrictive laws...
Importing UK/DE... E-conversion go through same homologation rules which
block us converting cars in France so i'm still looking for legal
solutions...
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: KTA Services Website, other Stuff.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 8:32 AM
> Subject: Re: KTA Services Website
>
>
> > Maybe you are not on the good side of the pond, in Germany and even in
> > France Rabbit model your kit is made for are still on the road :^)
> > named "Golf" in france.
> >
> Probably not many as it rains and snows in Europe, and they rust away?
>
> > Newer models kit conversion:
>
> I wish, not many cars nowadaze that are much lighter than my Rabbit
> WITH all the batteries aboard. 3100lbs is pretty common kerb weight for
ANY
> small car, nowadaze!
>
> > I believe firmly in knowledge sharing and people association:
> >
> > alone you can make your house, together we made cathedrals :^)
>
> > Hey! Thanks! I Like that! Give new meaning to Preaching to the Choir?
> That's why we're here, and we have fun doing it.
>
> > In EV tiny market, few people don't want to share easly information,
> > knowledge... because they prefer waiting for D day when they would make
> > money with it. (talking about nobody in particular here ok, just human
> > nature :^)
> > Wake up men, it's not going to happen so quickly if we seat waiting for
a
> > miracle.
> > Let's be the "miracle" !
> >
> Amen!
>
> We try to spread info here, best we can.
>
> > Ask at fellow which made a beautiful conversion of the tiny new model
> toyota
> > (i forgot the name) if he wants to work with you, he made it true, your
> > knowledge can perfect it et voila a new "all around the world" usable EV
> kit
> > :^)
> There are nice small, light cars that we can't get here in USA. Like the
> better-than-Prius VW Lupo Diseasel, and a gaggle of other hy miliage stuff
> we can"t have, Smart comes to mind.Somebody pointed this out on the Yahoo
> EV's for Sale Group, you can count on one hand the number of 40 MPG cars
you
> can actually BUY in USA!
> >
> > I know words are simpler than acts but it's not more complicated...
> > You can make that TODAY in USA and i'm jalous of this possibility, i
would
> > like making such E-conversion here in France, stupid laws :^(
> > ...
> Huh? I guess France is like Portugal? I mean about changing a lot of
stuff
> on a car? I chatted with a guy in Portugal, a few years ago. He said that
> you couldn't just yank out the engine and stuff out of a car and fit it
as
> electric, steam, nuclear, hamsters.....what EVer you wanted. Car wouldn't
> pass road inspection? Something like that? Or peoplle don't build stuff
like
> roadsters, hot rod type things swapping engines costomising bodies
> etc??Dragsters? OK I guess as you don't run them, usually, in the street?
> Casn't put a big block Chevy engine in a Renault Dauphine, if you could
FIND
> one?Engine OR car<g>!
>
> So I guess that there aren't many(any) EV conversions in France?Could
ya
> buy one from, say the UK?Germany?Italy?Do Motor Laws vary much from
country
> to country, in Europe?
>
> > Then you will fight to share parts of the world EV conversion market
(just
> > human nature again...)
> > :^)
> >
> > cordialement,
> > Philippe
>
> > Seeya
>
> Bob
> > Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
While I agree that it might be good to share
information to make things happen, I disagree with
some of your points.
First, the early adoptors of many revolutionary
inventions like the computers, the automobiles, the
airplanes etc. were willing to pay premium for the
products. They were paying premium to get their
product repaired, to get parts, and to get services.
This is true even now. To get high performance
computers, cars, airplane etc., you've got to be
willing to spend the big bucks. This is how an
inductry could be created, companies would be able to
sustain their business and continue to provide new and
exciting products, and machanics and repair shops
could survive and continue to provide the needed
support infrastructure.
Second, very few were providing or able to provide
"free" service and repair. I know many on this list
are willing to spend the weekend helping another EVer
to get his/her EV on the road. Some were even willing
to provide "less-than-professional" solutions that
barely work or only work for a short period of time.
This is actually very counter productive if your
intention is to get more EV's on the road. This means
that only those willing and able to work their EV's
could drive an EV. Also, this means that no company
could survice providing the needed support and repair
services. Like I always say, if everyone could ask a
neighbor to do his/her oil change free-of-charge,
there simply would not be a oil change industry out
there.
I quit my day job about 1.5 years ago to focus on EV
component design and to provide repair and support
services. This is not just my opinion, it is my
experience from doing this for a living for 1.5 years.
If we really want to get this EV thing moving, we've
got to get over the bad boy chargers, the zener light
bulb regulators, the high maintenance wet cells, and
others less than professional solutions. Come on! It
is 2005 not 1975. If you think 30 years is not enough
to proof that what we are doing is not working, I
don't know what to say. I don't want to look back 30
years from now and see us still in this stage.
Another example, if someone's modern car broke down
due to a computer failure that cost $1000 just for
parts, would be suggest replacing the modern engine
with a 1970 carburetor engine because it costs only
$400 and it is easier to work on eventhough it is much
much less reliable?
If we could proof that companies could at least
survive (or better yet, make some money) in this EV
thing, more will come and more EV's would be on the
road. We would have better products, better support
and repair infrastructure, and a better future. And,
you will spend your weekend enjoying your EV's instead
of working on someone else's EV. I am sure Rich and
Otmar would agree with me.
Ed Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp.
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Philippe Borges wrote:
> > alone you can make your house, together we made
> cathedrals :^)
> >
> > In EV tiny market, few people don't want to share
> easily information,
> > knowledge... because they prefer waiting for D day
> when they would make
> > money with it. (talking about nobody in particular
> here ok, just human
> > nature :^) Wake up men, it's not going to happen
> so quickly if we seat
> > waiting for a miracle. Let's be the "miracle"!
>
> That is a wonderful way to put it, Philippe. I agree
> completely.
>
> The miracle that is today's personal computer would
> never have happened if the
> early pioneers were not willing to share
> information. The same is true for
> the automobile, the airplane, and many other
> revolutionary inventions. It is
> OK to think about money, but not if you think ONLY
> about money.
>
> Big companies don't invent revolutionary things
> because they do not think
> about anything but money. They won't learn from
> others, and won't share what
> they know. They build "houses" (but lots of them!)
>
> Individuals are the ones responsible for the
> inventions that become
> "cathedrals". They know they can't build it all by
> themselves, and so share
> information, and work together with others.
>
> And that is what this EV list is... people working
> together to make EVs
> happen!
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Kim: We were an Auto Dealer here in Seattle for 45 years. My sister
still works in an auto license office in West Seattle.
Any out of state car, with out of state title, has to be "INspected " at
one of those inspection offices. They have to check the title against
the VIN Numbers on the car, and make sure it is not stolen.
For you it will be doing two things in ONE step. The Out of state
Inspection, and certify that it is NOT GAS, and that it is "E" for
Electric... Then you take the forms to your closest place you buy tabs,
and it is a done deal.
Hope to see you at some of the Seattle EV Meetings (if we haven't
already} Im bad at names. Perhaps you have already paid us a visit.
Till then...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Dec 2005 at 20:52, Calvin King wrote:
> Does this mean that I could use 10 - J150's and get better results
> than my current set up of 16 T105's, that is better milage per charge
> and better execration?
Well, I've heard a lot of folks say, "It's the battery, stupid," and I guess
we all swear at 'em now and again. Not sure I consider better execration an
improvement, though. ;-)
ex·e·cra·tion, n.
1. The act of cursing.
2. A curse.
3. Something that is cursed or loathed.
Just kidding, but seriously now, what did you really mean here?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They told me the same thing when I asked about the E-meter prescaler.
Either the phone droid didn't know or they just don't want us
experimenting....
Does your unit have a config option for higher voltage like the
Link-10 does? If it has the config option then I'd think that the
simple resistor scheme would work just fine.
John
On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 08:32:11 -0800 (PST), Rod Hower
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I have a newer Xantrex battery monitor with LCD
>screen,
>part number 220-1067-01-01.
>It has an input range of 9-35Vdc.
>I contacted Xantrex about a prescaler and they said
>it's
>not a simple divider circuit like the one below. They
>didn't
>offer one for sale either (that was about 6 months
>ago).
>Does anybody have a prescaler for this newer battery
>monitor?
>Thanks,
>Rod
>W8RNH
>
>
>> 118K 474K 465K
>> 1% 1% 1%
>> +Pack____/\/\________/\/\_____/\/\__________E-meter
>> V+SENSE (pin 5)
>> | |
>> 0.047uF 500v |--------O O--------|
>> ceramic disk _|_ open for 500v, _|_/ 1N5162 51v
>> capacitor ___ short for 100v //_\ zener
>> diode
>> | prescaler |
>> -Pack___________|_____________________|_____E-meter
>> V-SENSE (pin 1)
>>
>> The three resistors are standard values that add up
>> to the right total. This
>> also reduces the voltage across each resistor; 1/4w
>> resistors only have a
>> 250v rating. The capacitor is for noise filtering.
>> The zener protects against
>> reverse polarity and excessive voltage on the
>> E-meter input.
>> --
>> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:32 AM 4/12/05 -0800, Rod wrote:
I have a newer Xantrex battery monitor with LCD screen,
part number 220-1067-01-01.
It has an input range of 9-35Vdc.
I contacted Xantrex about a prescaler and they said it's
not a simple divider circuit like the one below. They didn't
offer one for sale either (that was about 6 months ago).
Does anybody have a prescaler for this newer battery monitor?
Thanks,
Hi Rod
Your worst outcome is to make your own voltage divider - the only hard bit
is matching for the input impedence (resistance) of the monitor. Run the
meter either with a x10 correction, or you may be lucky enough to be able
to give it a x10 correction on the amps (tell it that the shunt = 5000A and
use a 500A) to correctly count the watt-hours.
To modify a little the drawing Lee provided:
R1
1%
+Pack____/\/\______________________________meter V+SENSE
| | |
| | VR __ Variable|
| | / |Resistor|
| |__/\/\_|_ |
| | | |
0.047uF 500v | | R2 | |
ceramic disk _|_ |__/\/\__| _|_/ 1N5xxx (35V)v
capacitor ___ | //_\ zener diode
| | |
-Pack___________|_____________|_______|___meter V-SENSE
R1 could be 90k. The paralell sum of the input of the meter and R2 is
around 10k, giving a total across the resistor string of 100k, so when
connected to the battery 10% of the battery voltage appears on the meter
input. The Zener remains to protect the input of the meter some. This would
prescale the meter as 90 to 350V, but watch the resistor selection if you
are at the upper end for their voltage rating.
Since 90k is not a standard value, use 91k. R2 would be best selected to
give a reading a little too high, and then paralell 'load' with VR - maybe
100k trimpot to pull it down. If the pot goes open, the volts then only go
a little high, and doesn't nuke the meter input (worst case). The other
thing is that potentiometers (variable resistors) drift with temperature -
so this method minimises that influence.
Hope this gives you some ideas.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Steve and everybody else:
> This seems a little hi , my now 120 v 5600 lbs mazda pu uses 120 140 amp
> at 50 , I have 40 6v excide golfers riding with me . Any reason for
> your hi amp draw. ?
Well, depending on wind and battery temps. I usually get 50 mph with
between 150 Amps. and 180 Amps (battery amps) in 3rd gear. I have Tiger
Paw tires, no aero mods and no truck bed cover. The breaks are ok, the
wheels spin freely.
> You were close to the 11 point ( 112) . so maybe they were not charged
> all the way . These where the 12 v deep cycle ?
> STeve Clunn
No I am using 20 NAPA (Exide Clones) 6 V Floodies. And my Zivan NG3
signaled fully charged. Idle voltage at start was around 130 V.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm using just some resistors in series with the voltage input for mine. It
displays the average voltage of one battery. I have worked with both an E-Meter
and my own Link 10, and I'm relatively certain they are the same, maybe a small
software update along the way.
I should also mention, there is a seller on eBay selling voltage prescalers
for less than $30 shipped (search "electric vehicle"). Their prescaler is a
very overpriced box with some inexpensive resistors, capacitor and diode inside.
Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
They told me the same thing when I asked about the E-meter prescaler.
Either the phone droid didn't know or they just don't want us
experimenting....
Does your unit have a config option for higher voltage like the
Link-10 does? If it has the config option then I'd think that the
simple resistor scheme would work just fine.
John
On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 08:32:11 -0800 (PST), Rod Hower
wrote:
>I have a newer Xantrex battery monitor with LCD
>screen,
>part number 220-1067-01-01.
>It has an input range of 9-35Vdc.
>I contacted Xantrex about a prescaler and they said
>it's
>not a simple divider circuit like the one below. They
>didn't
>offer one for sale either (that was about 6 months
>ago).
>Does anybody have a prescaler for this newer battery
>monitor?
>Thanks,
>Rod
>W8RNH
>
>
>> 118K 474K 465K
>> 1% 1% 1%
>> +Pack____/\/\________/\/\_____/\/\__________E-meter
>> V+SENSE (pin 5)
>> | |
>> 0.047uF 500v |--------O O--------|
>> ceramic disk _|_ open for 500v, _|_/ 1N5162 51v
>> capacitor ___ short for 100v //_\ zener
>> diode
>> | prescaler |
>> -Pack___________|_____________________|_____E-meter
>> V-SENSE (pin 1)
>>
>> The three resistors are standard values that add up
>> to the right total. This
>> also reduces the voltage across each resistor; 1/4w
>> resistors only have a
>> 250v rating. The capacitor is for noise filtering.
>> The zener protects against
>> reverse polarity and excessive voltage on the
>> E-meter input.
>> --
>> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
> I have a newer Xantrex battery monitor with LCD screen,
> part number 220-1067-01-01. It has an input range of 9-35Vdc.
> I contacted Xantrex about a prescaler and they said it's
> not a simple divider circuit like the one below. They didn't
> offer one for sale either (that was about 6 months ago).
> Does anybody have a prescaler for this newer battery
> monitor?
Yes, I looked this one over when it came out a couple years ago. It appears
they completely eliminated the prescaler option, both in hardware *and*
software. It looks to me like your only option is to build a buffered voltage
divider that converts whatever your pack voltage is to look like "12v"
battery. For example, if you have a 144v pack (twelve 12v batteries), you
need a 12:1 prescaler so 144v displays as 12v (the average voltage for all
your batteries.
The prescaler is more complicated; you'd need an opamp to serve as a buffer.
Something like:
+Pack__ ____/\/\___
| | 100K 1% |
1.1meg > | |\ |
1% > |___|-\ |
> | \____|___9-35v voltage sense input
|________|+ /
| | | /opamp
100K > _|_ |/ to Xantrex battery monitor
1% > ___ 0.047uF
> |
-Pack__|____|_______________common
An LM358 or equivalent is probably good enough (resistor accuracy is the
dominant source of errors). The opamp can be powered from the same 9-35vdc
supply that powers the Xantrex meter with a 1K resistor, 10uF capacitor, and
27v zener to keep the opamp's supply voltage under 32v.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philippe,
We have the Yaris in Canada now and the U.S. Toyota website says it is
coming to the U.S in Spring 2006 as a 2007 model. Last year, a similar car
sold in Canada was called the Toyota Echo Hatchback. One person at work
just bought a Yaris and it cost $27,000 Canadian, all-dressed, extended
guaranteed and taxed. So it is not cheap to buy a new one for a
conversion.....
In France, would they let you add some more batteries and boost converter
power supply electronics to a Toyota Prius, (so you can assist the original
NiMH pack, to be able to run it as an electric car for about 50 km at 60
kph and lower speed)? That could be one way to get a rather nice and
practical EV "conversion" in Europe.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: KTA Services Website, other Stuff.
In fact i just see an article which say Mercedes is brainstorming about
introducing the smart to USA, final decision for 2006...
The toyota i speak about is named Yaris.
Funny we have oposit difficulties: USA permit E-conversion but don't have
modern tiny commuter cars, then we have such cars in europe but can't
convert them and drive on French roads because too restrictive laws...
Importing UK/DE... E-conversion go through same homologation rules which
block us converting cars in France so i'm still looking for legal
solutions...
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: KTA Services Website, other Stuff.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: KTA Services Website
> Maybe you are not on the good side of the pond, in Germany and even in
> France Rabbit model your kit is made for are still on the road :^)
> named "Golf" in france.
>
Probably not many as it rains and snows in Europe, and they rust
away?
> Newer models kit conversion:
I wish, not many cars nowadaze that are much lighter than my Rabbit
WITH all the batteries aboard. 3100lbs is pretty common kerb weight for
ANY
small car, nowadaze!
> I believe firmly in knowledge sharing and people association:
>
> alone you can make your house, together we made cathedrals :^)
> Hey! Thanks! I Like that! Give new meaning to Preaching to the Choir?
That's why we're here, and we have fun doing it.
> In EV tiny market, few people don't want to share easly information,
> knowledge... because they prefer waiting for D day when they would make
> money with it. (talking about nobody in particular here ok, just human
> nature :^)
> Wake up men, it's not going to happen so quickly if we seat waiting for
a
> miracle.
> Let's be the "miracle" !
>
Amen!
We try to spread info here, best we can.
> Ask at fellow which made a beautiful conversion of the tiny new model
toyota
> (i forgot the name) if he wants to work with you, he made it true, your
> knowledge can perfect it et voila a new "all around the world" usable
> EV
kit
> :^)
There are nice small, light cars that we can't get here in USA. Like the
better-than-Prius VW Lupo Diseasel, and a gaggle of other hy miliage
stuff
we can"t have, Smart comes to mind.Somebody pointed this out on the Yahoo
EV's for Sale Group, you can count on one hand the number of 40 MPG cars
you
can actually BUY in USA!
>
> I know words are simpler than acts but it's not more complicated...
> You can make that TODAY in USA and i'm jalous of this possibility, i
would
> like making such E-conversion here in France, stupid laws :^(
> ...
Huh? I guess France is like Portugal? I mean about changing a lot of
stuff
on a car? I chatted with a guy in Portugal, a few years ago. He said that
you couldn't just yank out the engine and stuff out of a car and fit it
as
electric, steam, nuclear, hamsters.....what EVer you wanted. Car wouldn't
pass road inspection? Something like that? Or peoplle don't build stuff
like
roadsters, hot rod type things swapping engines costomising bodies
etc??Dragsters? OK I guess as you don't run them, usually, in the street?
Casn't put a big block Chevy engine in a Renault Dauphine, if you could
FIND
one?Engine OR car<g>!
So I guess that there aren't many(any) EV conversions in France?Could
ya
buy one from, say the UK?Germany?Italy?Do Motor Laws vary much from
country
to country, in Europe?
> Then you will fight to share parts of the world EV conversion market
(just
> human nature again...)
> :^)
>
> cordialement,
> Philippe
> Seeya
Bob
> Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think I'll use a DC/DC converter for the power
supply (similar to what the Sparrow uses, a DC/DC that
has 12V input from the main DC converter for all 12V
systems, it's output supplies the Emeter).
I'll use something similar to Lee's circuit to prevent
impedance mis-match problems. Depending on the Emeter
input, resistors only may cause problems. Hopefully
an op-amp circuit like Lee described would eliminate
these problems.
Seems like a step back from the old meter if it can't
handle a simple resistor divider circuit. Oh well,
I'll throw something together and see what happens.
Rod
--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> They told me the same thing when I asked about the
> E-meter prescaler.
> Either the phone droid didn't know or they just
> don't want us
> experimenting....
>
> Does your unit have a config option for higher
> voltage like the
> Link-10 does? If it has the config option then I'd
> think that the
> simple resistor scheme would work just fine.
>
> John
>
> On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 08:32:11 -0800 (PST), Rod Hower
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I have a newer Xantrex battery monitor with LCD
> >screen,
> >part number 220-1067-01-01.
> >It has an input range of 9-35Vdc.
> >I contacted Xantrex about a prescaler and they said
> >it's
> >not a simple divider circuit like the one below.
> They
> >didn't
> >offer one for sale either (that was about 6 months
> >ago).
> >Does anybody have a prescaler for this newer
> battery
> >monitor?
> >Thanks,
> >Rod
> >W8RNH
> >
> >
> >> 118K 474K 465K
> >> 1% 1% 1%
> >>
> +Pack____/\/\________/\/\_____/\/\__________E-meter
> >> V+SENSE (pin 5)
> >> | |
> >> 0.047uF 500v |--------O O--------|
> >> ceramic disk _|_ open for 500v, _|_/ 1N5162
> 51v
> >> capacitor ___ short for 100v //_\ zener
> >> diode
> >> | prescaler |
> >>
> -Pack___________|_____________________|_____E-meter
> >> V-SENSE (pin 1)
> >>
> >> The three resistors are standard values that add
> up
> >> to the right total. This
> >> also reduces the voltage across each resistor;
> 1/4w
> >> resistors only have a
> >> 250v rating. The capacitor is for noise
> filtering.
> >> The zener protects against
> >> reverse polarity and excessive voltage on the
> >> E-meter input.
> >> --
> >> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >>
> >
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't get much time to read the list anymore but skim it once and a while.
The recent posts about kits available for newer cars caught my eye.
We have been converting the S-10 trucks for over 15 years now and have a
very complete bolt in kit for them. We even offer a complete pre wired
kit so you just plug in all the supplied harnesses. We also have been
selling kits for the Geo Metro for over 10 years. Last year we did a
Toyota Echo which could be a future kit as well as the Dodge Neon we are
trying to find time to finnish. To be honest though, conversions are
only about 5% of our business and I cant see anyone making a living on
just conversions. People that can afford the $$ to convert a vehicle
usually buy an SUV and those that think EV's are cool don't have the
cash to do a conversion. :(
All our conversions are supplied with CAD drawings for all the
electrical and we have all the CAD drawings for all the mechanical parts
so they can be easily duplicated by our machine shop.
Hope to see some of you at the Electric drive conference in Vancouver
this week. Booth 121
BFN
Randy
--
Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd.
PO, Box 616, 1184 Middlegate Rd.
Errington, British Columbia,
Canada, V0R 1V0
Phone: (250) 954-2230
Fax: (250) 954-2235
Website: http://www.canev.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manufactures of: "Might-E Truck"
EV conversion Kits and components
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd go to the north of SC and across on 518 much gentler hillclimb. in
heavy traffic that would add a significant amount of time to your
commute though
Dave
Stefan Peters wrote:
For those in the Seattle area the hill is on the south end of
Southcenter mall up to Seatac. My glider is planned <2000lbs w/batts
144VDC Z1k controller.
Uggh, can you possibly go another way to work? That hill has probably
taken out plenty of poor cars over the years, no matter what is inside
them... I know it would likely be much much much longer any other way,
but wouldn't a much longer, easier grade actually use less of a
batteries total lifetime?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone got any experience with Universal Batteries, specifically these:
http://battservice.com/store/index.html?loadfile=catalog124_0.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess you are talking about the 110Ah UB121100?
That is exactly the battery I am installing in my S10 right now
and a friend will be over tonight to check the battery box
he designed, as the US Electricar box is only big enough for
22 of these, while the car needs 26, so I will add 4 behind the
rear axle.
If you order enough of them, they will give you free shipping
and if no dealer is in your area, you may be able to register
with them - I have ordered batteries for 3 EVs (my own and two
others) and got a dealer price of $85 per unit.
My task was to unload the two pallets and have the two fellow
EVers pick up their batteries and pay me back ;-)
I also measured each and every battery that was delivered and they
were all between 12.58 and 12.72 Volts (all the same date code).
You can ask them to supply all identical codes, to make sure
they are the same age.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 6:18 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Another battery brand
Has anyone got any experience with Universal Batteries, specifically these:
http://battservice.com/store/index.html?loadfile=catalog124_0.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where can a used Russro be found? 120 or 144v needed" Thanks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<<<I guess you are talking about the 110Ah UB121100?
That is exactly the battery I am installing in my S10 right now
and a friend will be over tonight to check the battery box
he designed, as the US Electricar box is only big enough for
22 of these, while the car needs 26, so I will add 4 behind the
rear axle.
If you order enough of them, they will give you free shipping
and if no dealer is in your area, you may be able to register
with them - I have ordered batteries for 3 EVs (my own and two
others) and got a dealer price of $85 per unit....>>>>
Did you order through this same company (Battery Service, Inc)? I contacted
Universal Battery and they weren't clear on expected cycle life with deep
discharges (I expect 60-70% DOD most days of use) - let us know how they hold
up for you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, That is quite a testimony about the behavior of a smart charger and a
PFC-50.
How many batteries were involved in the tests (sample size) and how long was
the charge cycle on each charger?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: Am I Killing Batteries?(+)
> I have one of these Smart Chargers that are automatic as well as Rich's
PFC-50 charger. The automatic charger cannot do one thing that the PFC-50
does, it does not know what the outside ambient temperature while the auto
charger is charging a battery inside a 74 degree building.
>
> Charging a battery with the auto charger to 100 percent shows 12.6 volts
after setting 24 hours. Using the PFC-50, I can adjust the voltage to 15.53
and the battery will show 12.8 volts after setting 24 hours.
>
> I cannot adjust any voltage on the smart charger, only current.
>
> Now I take both batteries outside in 0 degree temperature for 60 minutes
(in my EV in a non-insulated compartment)
>
> The battery that was charge with the smart charger shows only 66 percent
charge, while the battery that was charge with the PFC-50 shows 88 percent
charge after driving 1 mile at 50 battery amp for 4 minutes.
>
> Charging with the smart auto charger, the voltage indications per 12 volt
battery goes from 13.5V to 15.0V and back down to 14.5V. Holds it there for
a while, than it may go to 15.5V and sometimes to 16.2 volts for about 2
minutes and finally back to 14.5 volts. Its then finish charges to 13.5
and holds a maintaining charge of 12.66 volts.
>
> After all that, the auto charge battery shows 66 percent. After four days
of running at 2 miles a days for 8 miles in 32 minutes, this auto charge
battery was down to 9.5 volts or about 10 percent.
>
> The PFC-50 charge battery was only down to 12.2 volts or 78 percent.
>
> I'm not going to charge these batteries outside in temperature from 0 to
50 below. I did this one time at 40 below of which I could charge the
batteries to 16.8V per 12V battery or 252 volts for a 180 volt pack with the
PFC-50B. There was no bubbling at all!! After a week of running to work and
back which is a 4 mile trip or 20 miles, I still had over 80 percent charge
when I let it set in a 72 degree building for 24 hours.
>
> I do not like that Smart charger, because I cannot adjust the voltage for
what the temperature the battery will be place in.
>
> Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are these AGMs? They look like gel cell batteries to me...
--chris
On Sun, 2005-12-04 at 20:59 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> <<<<I guess you are talking about the 110Ah UB121100?
> That is exactly the battery I am installing in my S10 right now
> and a friend will be over tonight to check the battery box
> he designed, as the US Electricar box is only big enough for
> 22 of these, while the car needs 26, so I will add 4 behind the
> rear axle.
>
> If you order enough of them, they will give you free shipping
> and if no dealer is in your area, you may be able to register
> with them - I have ordered batteries for 3 EVs (my own and two
> others) and got a dealer price of $85 per unit....>>>>
>
> Did you order through this same company (Battery Service, Inc)? I contacted
> Universal Battery and they weren't clear on expected cycle life with deep
> discharges (I expect 60-70% DOD most days of use) - let us know how they hold
> up for you.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Edward Ang wrote:
> early adoptors of many revolutionary inventions like computers,
> automobiles, airplanes etc. were willing to pay a premium for the
> products.
This is true for EVs, too. I think it's safe to say that most of us have spent
more time and money on our EVs than an equivalent car would have cost. Quite
a few have bought exotic batteries, very high performance controllers,
sophisticated chargers, and other expensive hand-made items.
> To get high performance computers, cars, airplane etc. you've got to be
> willing to spend the big bucks. This is how an industry could be created
Truly high-performance products are high priced, but sell in very small
quantities; so total profit is low. It's a way get a small company started,
but it can't grow very much.
Customers obsessed with performance also tend to overlook other shortcomings
in the product; high cost, poor reliability, difficult to service or repair,
etc. You can see why small start-up companies eagerly seek such customers!
But for a company to survive and grow, it has to find more customers. To do
this, it needs to attend to all these "details" like lowering its prices
while delivering better reliability and service. The trick is to find the
happy medium between performance, price, reliability and repairability that
still provides enough profit.
> Second, very few were providing or able to provide
> "free" service and repair.
This is a complex issue. The "standard wisdom" of big companies is to provide
the absolute MINIMUM amount of support and service. Their attitude is that
the customer is an idiot that will not return a defective product or get it
serviced; he will simply throw it away and buy a new one (often from the same
supplier!)
But this strategy only works when you totally dominate and control the market
so customers don't have any choice but to go along. Another supplier that
enters the market with better support and service will take over. This
happened to the Detroit automakers when the original VW Beetle was
introduced, and more recently, when Toyota and Honda started offering cheaper
cars that were more reliable and easier to fix.
When the auto companies produced EVs, they built them with the same strategy
as their regular cars. Very complex, very poorly documented, lots of custom
parts only available from the dealer, not serviceable at the component level,
not repairable with normal tools by normal people. I think we are now seeing
the results of that strategy. As these cars get to be 5-10 years, old, they
are becoming unserviceable!
To me, the beauty of EVs is that they can break this cycle. EVs can be far
simpler, far cheaper, far more reliable, and far easier to fix than ICEs. It
is stupid to throw these advantages away by over-complicating them to drive
up cost and ruin reliability, using custom parts to make them unobtainable,
and then keeping the servicing proprietary and secret so it can't be
efficiently maintained or repaired.
A small company can't afford to maintain a large service organization, stock
parts for all models, and provide extensive customer support and service. So,
their best option is an "open design" so the customer can either fix it
themselves, or find someone who can.
I work primarily in electronics. It is much easier for me to supply the
schematic, a generic parts list, and a basic theory of operation for a
product than it is to do all the actual customer support and servicing
myself. If there's a micro in it, include diagnostic software for
troubleshooting. Then most customers can support themselves. You never make
money on support and service anyway; it just takes you away from more
productive activities, so you're wasting your time trying. Provide the tools
so the customer can support himself!
People seem to think this means they are "giving away valuable secrets".
Baloney! Even with a schematic and parts list in hand, not one person in a
million will go to the trouble of duplicating your product. Even if they did,
they can't produce it as well as you can (you have a huge head start).
Besides, technology moves so fast that by the time they duplicated it, the
design is obsolete anyway.
> Like I always say, if everyone could ask a neighbor to do his/her oil
> change free-of-charge, there simply would not be a oil change industry
> out there.
To carry this analogy forward, perhaps this would be a good thing!
> If we really want to get this EV thing moving, we've got to get over
> the bad boy chargers, the zener light bulb regulators, the high
> maintenance wet cells, and others less than professional solutions.
> Come on! It is 2005 not 1975.
I respectfully disagree, Ed. Sure, maybe everyone "should" drive Rolls Royces;
but that's not how the world works. The recent auto company EVs were
wonderful products, but vastly overcomplicated and overpriced. EVs are best
suited to be short-range commuter cars and delivery vehicles; not luxury
sports cars, SUVs, and pickup trucks!
> If you think 30 years is not enough to proof that what we are doing is
> not working, I don't know what to say.
I don't think EVers have been doing anything wrong. I just think EVs were not
yet an idea "whose time had come". Gasoline was too cheap, and too plentiful.
We didn't have to fight wars to get it. Air pollution was not of any concern
to the average person. ICE cars were cheap and powerful and reliable enough.
People weren't looking for anything better.
But I think this century *will* be the age of EVs. Gasoline prices are only
going to keep climbing, faster and faster. We'll have more wars and political
instabilities trying to get oil. ICEs are so complex that they are nearly
unserviceable, and so expensive that huge sections of the population just
can't afford them. Hybrids are only a stopgap measure.
If our children don't drive an EV, they may not be driving anything!
> Another example, if someone's modern car broke down due to a computer
> failure that cost $1000 just for parts, would be suggest replacing the
> modern engine with a 1970 carburetor engine because it costs only $400
> and it is easier to work on even though it is much much less reliable?
The truth is that the computer failure is probably caused by a ten cent part
failing; but it's built so it can't be replaced. And, the "unreliable"
carburetor will still be working, or at least be easily repairable for many
decades in the future; long after the computer is dead, unfixable, and
unreplaceable.
> If we could proof that companies could at least survive (or better yet,
> make some money) in this EV thing, more will come and more EV's would be
> on the road. We would have better products, better support and repair
> infrastructure, and a better future. And, you will spend your weekend
> enjoying your EV's instead of working on someone else's EV.
if it's any consolation, even people who build parts or provide service for
ICEs are having a very hard time making money at it -- and they have a vastly
larger market!
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
