EV Digest 4965
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Fw: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Another battery brand
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Another battery brand
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) 72 V, 80 AH NiCD Pack
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) RE: EV digest 4950
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Another battery brand
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: 72 V, 80 AH NiCD Pack
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Another battery brand
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:Toyota_Yaris_and_plug-in_hybrid_Prius_conversions.?=
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Getting a Washington State Title
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: KTA Services Website, other Stuff.
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 72 V, 80 AH NiCD Pack
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 72 V, 80 AH NiCD Pack
by Joel Shellman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EV digest 4960
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) magnet fun
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:conversion_kits?=
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Am I Killing Batteries?(+)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_KTA_Services_Website,_other_Stuff.?=
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Well Christ Rich. You want to go fast or something?????? I'm talking 12
6v batteries. The Traction motors from a 24v forklift and The two Altrax.
I know a bunch of people using them for motorcycles. Some only use one to
drive an old bug, Sprint or Festiva to about 50mph. This setup I am
talking about would be very close to the Zebra sports cars that used the
same dual motor/controller setup. Hell I think they only used one
controller. My motors would beat out those motors. A little heavier
though. Two controllers would definately go 70mph. Two altrax would be
144v of a 156 zilla with 800 out of 1000 amps. Works for me. Poor mans
zilla...Off road controller? Who says...LR..............
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
It very well could be done for 5 k. A two motor VW using two 72v AXE
controllers. The adapter is simple. It could be copied from from a
wilderness adapter which are cheap. Copy the adapter in mirror image
putting both motors above the axles. It'd be light if you went with a
VW
pan & a dune buggy body. Hell I bet it'd be real fast & light if you
made
it with 12 group 31 Optimas. I'd donate the motors. Two real nice ND
traction motors from a Toyota Electric forklift. But if I donated the
motors I'd want a cameo. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
I wonder What Damon's blood pressure would do, When seeing his founding
partner driving his NOW off road product
On TV with a very big name riding along...
Damon got out of On road cotrollers, years ago... I would not use a
Altrax
on road for about 10 reasons. Plus I would need about 10 of them to get
the
job done.
A Raptor.... or a T-Rex...OK.
Lets keep in mind I have done this a few times....
Rich Rudman
Madman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Everyone that compares Curtis controllers to Altrax always seems to like the
Altrax better. What am I missing? LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
I would not use a Altrax on road for about 10 reasons.
Uh-Oh... what would those reasons be? I was thinking of using one, but now
I am concerned hearing you say that :(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Uve,
I ordered directly from UB.
They were not clear on the number of 80% discharges
as their customers do not use this battery for that
purpose, they want 10 years standby-time without
too much loss of capacity.
They were expecting about 500 to 700 cycles.
Still at 720 CCA, the specified 80Ah in 1 hour discharge
and the price, I wanted to try this battery to see if it
is this good in value for money and sealed as well.
(Part of them are under the cabin, the rest under the
bed in 2 layers, so I need sealed)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 8:59 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: RE: Another battery brand
<<<<I guess you are talking about the 110Ah UB121100?
That is exactly the battery I am installing in my S10 right now
and a friend will be over tonight to check the battery box
he designed, as the US Electricar box is only big enough for
22 of these, while the car needs 26, so I will add 4 behind the
rear axle.
If you order enough of them, they will give you free shipping
and if no dealer is in your area, you may be able to register
with them - I have ordered batteries for 3 EVs (my own and two
others) and got a dealer price of $85 per unit....>>>>
Did you order through this same company (Battery Service, Inc)? I contacted
Universal Battery and they weren't clear on expected cycle life with deep
discharges (I expect 60-70% DOD most days of use) - let us know how they
hold
up for you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AGM. See
http://www.universalpowergroup.com/batteries/sla.aspx
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Chris Robison
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 10:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Another battery brand
Are these AGMs? They look like gel cell batteries to me...
--chris
On Sun, 2005-12-04 at 20:59 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> <<<<I guess you are talking about the 110Ah UB121100?
> That is exactly the battery I am installing in my S10 right now
> and a friend will be over tonight to check the battery box
> he designed, as the US Electricar box is only big enough for
> 22 of these, while the car needs 26, so I will add 4 behind the
> rear axle.
>
> If you order enough of them, they will give you free shipping
> and if no dealer is in your area, you may be able to register
> with them - I have ordered batteries for 3 EVs (my own and two
> others) and got a dealer price of $85 per unit....>>>>
>
> Did you order through this same company (Battery Service, Inc)? I
contacted
> Universal Battery and they weren't clear on expected cycle life with deep
> discharges (I expect 60-70% DOD most days of use) - let us know how they
hold
> up for you.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you could string together a bunch of small NiCD packs that could be
purchased as a lot very inexpensively and could produce a 72 V, 80 AH NICD
pack,
would it be worth the effort? I calculated about 18,000 failure points in such
a
system, so anyone attempting this (someone like me) would need to be
extremely careful and have good monitoring equipment.
Advantages - very light weight and could propel a small commuter car the
range I am interested in vith good performance.
Disadvantages - a lot of work, difficult to monitor, potentially unreliable.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was impressed on the video. He did explain things rather well. I also
liked his plate he made to interface the transmission to the new engine.
The only thing I didnt like was the trigger mechanism. It isnt the most
efficient way to make it work. I would think that a new pot box with 0-5K
on the upswing of the throttle and then at a certain point (rpm of the motor
or speed) the pot box or the electric contactor could be shut off.
I would love to see a way to make a series hybrid instead of a parallel as
he did in the video. The only thing I am having a hard time visualizing is
the clutch mechanism to attach the engine to the electric motor. For a
series hybrid to work the electric would have to be connected to the
transmission and the gas motor onto the electric. Maybe some type of
electric clutch (like on an air conditioning compressor) would work.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 6:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV digest 4950
I was curious and bought this video a month or so ago. What he's done
with this car is make a manually activated hybrid (trigger is mounted
on shifter). The battery is in the trunk. It's really no more
complicated than anyone on this list could figure out for themselves.
However, he does a pretty good presentation, and this could be a good
intro to electric drive for the uninitiated.
Richard
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:24:08 -0800
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: EV Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Subject: 21 Ponies?
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Has anyone got any comments on the video here: http://www.21ponies.com/ ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, if there's someone in Austin who is ordering enough to get an $85
deal, I'd like to put in for a couple I need for a project.
Danny
Cor van de Water wrote:
I guess you are talking about the 110Ah UB121100?
That is exactly the battery I am installing in my S10 right now
and a friend will be over tonight to check the battery box
he designed, as the US Electricar box is only big enough for
22 of these, while the car needs 26, so I will add 4 behind the
rear axle.
If you order enough of them, they will give you free shipping
and if no dealer is in your area, you may be able to register
with them - I have ordered batteries for 3 EVs (my own and two
others) and got a dealer price of $85 per unit.
My task was to unload the two pallets and have the two fellow
EVers pick up their batteries and pay me back ;-)
I also measured each and every battery that was delivered and they
were all between 12.58 and 12.72 Volts (all the same date code).
You can ask them to supply all identical codes, to make sure
they are the same age.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The other advantage is that it can in theory be charged very quickly.
The difficulty in connecting and managing so many cells could be a
problem. Kinda likely you'll see one or more bad cells when many cheap
ones are used, and whether you have a bunch in parallel then put into a
HV series or a bunch of HV series put into parallel a single bad cell
can be a problem.
Danny
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you could string together a bunch of small NiCD packs that could be
purchased as a lot very inexpensively and could produce a 72 V, 80 AH NICD pack,
would it be worth the effort? I calculated about 18,000 failure points in such a
system, so anyone attempting this (someone like me) would need to be
extremely careful and have good monitoring equipment.
Advantages - very light weight and could propel a small commuter car the
range I am interested in vith good performance.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
$78.95 on eBay, but unless you live in Phoenix, AZ shipping will be an
issue to contend with.
Gruber eBay price
<http://cgi.ebay.com/Golf-Cart-Battery-12-Volt-110-Amp-Hour-NEW_W0QQitemZ7202287149QQcategoryZ40155QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem>
Danny
Cor van de Water wrote:
I guess you are talking about the 110Ah UB121100?
If you order enough of them, they will give you free shipping
and if no dealer is in your area, you may be able to register
with them - I have ordered batteries for 3 EVs (my own and two
others) and got a dealer price of $85 per unit.
My task was to unload the two pallets and have the two fellow
EVers pick up their batteries and pay me back ;-)
Regards,
Cor van de Water
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great news !
USA Yaris second hand market should bring soon less expensive donors :^)
Toyota yaris 5 doors cost arround 13500$ here.
http://www.caradisiac.com/php/essai_tun/fiabilite/168/mg_6165_toyota_yaris.php
Car modifications:
In France it's easier (shorter) to write list of things you can change on a car
without taking it again to registration, it will be something like this:
Nothing Sir or yes just one thing, if you really don't like it: the colour of
your car.
Joking but i'm not far from truth you know.
Nothing related to power (motor), security (brakes, number of seats...), body
(aerodynamic parts should not be dangerous to people...which is common sense)
and more generally nothing that affect the integrity of the whole car (forget
some metal cutting idea for batteries box) or the spec (weight...) as it was
registered initialy by constructor.
You can (all is possible) "upgrade" an existing legal electric vehicle or an
hybride (prius) despite it will be illegal at the same, it's more discrete than
an electric ferrari...
Even if you made a professionnal iconversion and "follow the black side of the
force" we have obligatory complete control of our cars once every 2 years, so
you can't escape the system...
Have fun with your E-conversion lucky guys, i'm still dreaming about a Peugeot
206 full of nicad, with front AC hub-motors system...as others fool projects i
have :^)
Philippe
---------- Initial Header -----------
>From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To : <[email protected]>
Cc :
Date : Sun, 4 Dec 2005 15:57:42 -0500
Subject : Re:Toyota Yaris and plug-in hybrid Prius conversions.
Philippe,
We have the Yaris in Canada now and the U.S. Toyota website says it is
coming to the U.S in Spring 2006 as a 2007 model. Last year, a similar car
sold in Canada was called the Toyota Echo Hatchback. One person at work
just bought a Yaris and it cost $27,000 Canadian, all-dressed, extended
guaranteed and taxed. So it is not cheap to buy a new one for a
conversion.....
In France, would they let you add some more batteries and boost converter
power supply electronics to a Toyota Prius, (so you can assist the original
NiMH pack, to be able to run it as an electric car for about 50 km at 60
kph and lower speed)? That could be one way to get a rather nice and
practical EV "conversion" in Europe.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: KTA Services Website, other Stuff.
> In fact i just see an article which say Mercedes is brainstorming about
> introducing the smart to USA, final decision for 2006...
> The toyota i speak about is named Yaris.
>
> Funny we have oposit difficulties: USA permit E-conversion but don't have
> modern tiny commuter cars, then we have such cars in europe but can't
> convert them and drive on French roads because too restrictive laws...
> Importing UK/DE... E-conversion go through same homologation rules which
> block us converting cars in France so i'm still looking for legal
> solutions...
>
> cordialement,
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:39 PM
> Subject: Re: KTA Services Website, other Stuff.
>
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 8:32 AM
>> Subject: Re: KTA Services Website
>>
>>
>> > Maybe you are not on the good side of the pond, in Germany and even in
>> > France Rabbit model your kit is made for are still on the road :^)
>> > named "Golf" in france.
>> >
>> Probably not many as it rains and snows in Europe, and they rust
>> away?
>>
>> > Newer models kit conversion:
>>
>> I wish, not many cars nowadaze that are much lighter than my Rabbit
>> WITH all the batteries aboard. 3100lbs is pretty common kerb weight for
> ANY
>> small car, nowadaze!
>>
>> > I believe firmly in knowledge sharing and people association:
>> >
>> > alone you can make your house, together we made cathedrals :^)
>>
>> > Hey! Thanks! I Like that! Give new meaning to Preaching to the Choir?
>> That's why we're here, and we have fun doing it.
>>
>> > In EV tiny market, few people don't want to share easly information,
>> > knowledge... because they prefer waiting for D day when they would make
>> > money with it. (talking about nobody in particular here ok, just human
>> > nature :^)
>> > Wake up men, it's not going to happen so quickly if we seat waiting for
> a
>> > miracle.
>> > Let's be the "miracle" !
>> >
>> Amen!
>>
>> We try to spread info here, best we can.
>>
>> > Ask at fellow which made a beautiful conversion of the tiny new model
>> toyota
>> > (i forgot the name) if he wants to work with you, he made it true, your
>> > knowledge can perfect it et voila a new "all around the world" usable
>> > EV
>> kit
>> > :^)
>> There are nice small, light cars that we can't get here in USA. Like the
>> better-than-Prius VW Lupo Diseasel, and a gaggle of other hy miliage
>> stuff
>> we can"t have, Smart comes to mind.Somebody pointed this out on the Yahoo
>> EV's for Sale Group, you can count on one hand the number of 40 MPG cars
> you
>> can actually BUY in USA!
>> >
>> > I know words are simpler than acts but it's not more complicated...
>> > You can make that TODAY in USA and i'm jalous of this possibility, i
> would
>> > like making such E-conversion here in France, stupid laws :^(
>> > ...
>> Huh? I guess France is like Portugal? I mean about changing a lot of
> stuff
>> on a car? I chatted with a guy in Portugal, a few years ago. He said that
>> you couldn't just yank out the engine and stuff out of a car and fit it
> as
>> electric, steam, nuclear, hamsters.....what EVer you wanted. Car wouldn't
>> pass road inspection? Something like that? Or peoplle don't build stuff
> like
>> roadsters, hot rod type things swapping engines costomising bodies
>> etc??Dragsters? OK I guess as you don't run them, usually, in the street?
>> Casn't put a big block Chevy engine in a Renault Dauphine, if you could
> FIND
>> one?Engine OR car<g>!
>>
>> So I guess that there aren't many(any) EV conversions in France?Could
> ya
>> buy one from, say the UK?Germany?Italy?Do Motor Laws vary much from
> country
>> to country, in Europe?
>>
>> > Then you will fight to share parts of the world EV conversion market
> (just
>> > human nature again...)
>> > :^)
>> >
>> > cordialement,
>> > Philippe
>>
>> > Seeya
>>
>> Bob
>> > Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
>> > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
>> >
>>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Washington state is a great place to register a car. I especially like the
fact you can renew your tabs online. I have continued to keep my truck
registered there for that very reason. Very convinient.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Lough [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 2:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
Subject: Getting a Washington State Title
Hi Kim: We were an Auto Dealer here in Seattle for 45 years. My sister
still works in an auto license office in West Seattle.
Any out of state car, with out of state title, has to be "INspected " at
one of those inspection offices. They have to check the title against
the VIN Numbers on the car, and make sure it is not stolen.
For you it will be doing two things in ONE step. The Out of state
Inspection, and certify that it is NOT GAS, and that it is "E" for
Electric... Then you take the forms to your closest place you buy tabs,
and it is a done deal.
Hope to see you at some of the Seattle EV Meetings (if we haven't
already} Im bad at names. Perhaps you have already paid us a visit.
Till then...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philippe, do you have a thing called "single vehicle approval" in
France? In the UK, this is what you use to register kit-built,
self-built or extensively modified cars, avoiding homologation. It's
quite a "strict" test but they use good principles and it's not
expensive, although you have to do it for every car. Then you can
drive anywhere in Europe, or sell it I think.. So maybe you can do
the conversion in my garage and drive it back (only 20 miles to the
ferry.. further on your side :))
Anyway, back to reality, we have a smaller project to finish first
(when I get back from Paris!)
best regards
evan (typing on a french kb is no fun!)
On 12/4/05, Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In fact i just see an article which say Mercedes is brainstorming about
> introducing the smart to USA, final decision for 2006...
> The toyota i speak about is named Yaris.
>
> Funny we have oposit difficulties: USA permit E-conversion but don't have
> modern tiny commuter cars, then we have such cars in europe but can't
> convert them and drive on French roads because too restrictive laws...
> Importing UK/DE... E-conversion go through same homologation rules which
> block us converting cars in France so i'm still looking for legal
> solutions...
>
> cordialement,
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:39 PM
> Subject: Re: KTA Services Website, other Stuff.
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 8:32 AM
> > Subject: Re: KTA Services Website
> >
> >
> > > Maybe you are not on the good side of the pond, in Germany and even in
> > > France Rabbit model your kit is made for are still on the road :^)
> > > named "Golf" in france.
> > >
> > Probably not many as it rains and snows in Europe, and they rust away?
> >
> > > Newer models kit conversion:
> >
> > I wish, not many cars nowadaze that are much lighter than my Rabbit
> > WITH all the batteries aboard. 3100lbs is pretty common kerb weight for
> ANY
> > small car, nowadaze!
> >
> > > I believe firmly in knowledge sharing and people association:
> > >
> > > alone you can make your house, together we made cathedrals :^)
> >
> > > Hey! Thanks! I Like that! Give new meaning to Preaching to the Choir?
> > That's why we're here, and we have fun doing it.
> >
> > > In EV tiny market, few people don't want to share easly information,
> > > knowledge... because they prefer waiting for D day when they would make
> > > money with it. (talking about nobody in particular here ok, just human
> > > nature :^)
> > > Wake up men, it's not going to happen so quickly if we seat waiting for
> a
> > > miracle.
> > > Let's be the "miracle" !
> > >
> > Amen!
> >
> > We try to spread info here, best we can.
> >
> > > Ask at fellow which made a beautiful conversion of the tiny new model
> > toyota
> > > (i forgot the name) if he wants to work with you, he made it true, your
> > > knowledge can perfect it et voila a new "all around the world" usable EV
> > kit
> > > :^)
> > There are nice small, light cars that we can't get here in USA. Like the
> > better-than-Prius VW Lupo Diseasel, and a gaggle of other hy miliage stuff
> > we can"t have, Smart comes to mind.Somebody pointed this out on the Yahoo
> > EV's for Sale Group, you can count on one hand the number of 40 MPG cars
> you
> > can actually BUY in USA!
> > >
> > > I know words are simpler than acts but it's not more complicated...
> > > You can make that TODAY in USA and i'm jalous of this possibility, i
> would
> > > like making such E-conversion here in France, stupid laws :^(
> > > ...
> > Huh? I guess France is like Portugal? I mean about changing a lot of
> stuff
> > on a car? I chatted with a guy in Portugal, a few years ago. He said that
> > you couldn't just yank out the engine and stuff out of a car and fit it
> as
> > electric, steam, nuclear, hamsters.....what EVer you wanted. Car wouldn't
> > pass road inspection? Something like that? Or peoplle don't build stuff
> like
> > roadsters, hot rod type things swapping engines costomising bodies
> > etc??Dragsters? OK I guess as you don't run them, usually, in the street?
> > Casn't put a big block Chevy engine in a Renault Dauphine, if you could
> FIND
> > one?Engine OR car<g>!
> >
> > So I guess that there aren't many(any) EV conversions in France?Could
> ya
> > buy one from, say the UK?Germany?Italy?Do Motor Laws vary much from
> country
> > to country, in Europe?
> >
> > > Then you will fight to share parts of the world EV conversion market
> (just
> > > human nature again...)
> > > :^)
> > >
> > > cordialement,
> > > Philippe
> >
> > > Seeya
> >
> > Bob
> > > Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> > > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> > >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: 72 V, 80 AH NiCD Pack
> The other advantage is that it can in theory be charged very quickly.
>
> The difficulty in connecting and managing so many cells could be a
> problem. Kinda likely you'll see one or more bad cells when many cheap
> ones are used, and whether you have a bunch in parallel then put into a
> HV series or a bunch of HV series put into parallel a single bad cell
> can be a problem.
>
> Danny
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >If you could string together a bunch of small NiCD packs that could be
> >purchased as a lot very inexpensively and could produce a 72 V, 80 AH
NICD pack,
> >would it be worth the effort? I calculated about 18,000 failure points
in such a
> >system, so anyone attempting this (someone like me) would need to be
> >extremely careful and have good monitoring equipment.
> >
> >Advantages - very light weight and could propel a small commuter car the
> >range I am interested in vith good performance.
> >
> > Hi All;
Guess if you were darn patient, good with a soldering iron, you could
do it. Hell, that's what the guyz at AC Propulsion did..right?As I remember
the cells they used werre pretty small.But they are running higher voltage,
300 or more, so a 72 volter may be "only"1000 or less<g>??
Seeya
Bob.about 40 failure points. 20 T 105's!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Guess if you were darn patient, good with a soldering iron, you could
> do it. Hell, that's what the guyz at AC Propulsion did..right?As I remember
> the cells they used werre pretty small.But they are running higher voltage,
> 300 or more, so a 72 volter may be "only"1000 or less<g>??
Couldn't you build a box in such a way that you could just slide in
all the NiCD's and they would be hooked up. eg. let's say D cells--a
long thin box that fits one D cell (height and width, 100 cells long)
with a conductor along the top and bottom. Slide in 100 batteries (or
however many) and you have 100 in parallel.
Do that 10 times and you have 100 parellal, x 10 in series. Okay,
probably want to change the numbers to get the right voltage, but
that's the idea.
Okay, yes that would still take some patience, but not that bad.
For troubleshooting a bad cell or something, could you test each row
to find out which was behaving oddly, pour out the bad row and just
test those?
Would something like this work?
--
Joel Shellman
Mentics, Inc. "The way you need software"
http://www.mentics.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David,
I think Calvin meant aczillaration.
ac.zilla.ration, v
!. The act of accelerating with a Zilla controller :-)
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: EV digest 4960
On 3 Dec 2005 at 20:52, Calvin King wrote:
Does this mean that I could use 10 - J150's and get better results
than my current set up of 16 T105's, that is better milage per charge
and better execration?
Well, I've heard a lot of folks say, "It's the battery, stupid," and I guess
we all swear at 'em now and again. Not sure I consider better execration an
improvement, though. ;-)
ex·e·cra·tion, n.
1. The act of cursing.
2. A curse.
3. Something that is cursed or loathed.
Just kidding, but seriously now, what did you really mean here?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Next time you have your motor apart how about having some fun with
"Hele-Shaw Ferrohydrodynamics for rotating and DC axial magnetic
fields"?
http://scitation.aip.org/phf/gallery/2003-lorenz.jsp
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yes :^)
it's the E-Yaris i was talking about !
thanks
Why not working with electromotive/Evparts/others companies... to bring such
new kit to USA slowly growing EV market.
It will cut development cost and bring "standard" Ev design all arround USA ?
let's see more:
Why not grouping your companies purchase to have better prices or making a
purchase association agrement to negociate with Toyota or second hand cars
sellers, ADC, TROJAN, Exide ... ?
Put an online restricted access forum to communicate all together and indicate
your actual/futur orders, one fellow(Evparts?) take the numbers and negociate
prices for all then he write it on the forum with special rebate code
purchase...
just an idea, there is lots of ways to make this work great.
i cry everyday that i can't make this happen here but i think in USA you have
the law, now higher gaz price, donors cars and existing good "EV companies"
(small or big no matter) to make this EV "cathedral" happen very fast.
Making/selling conversion is one job, selling parts is other one, giving the
place/tools and knowledge to let people make their conversion on some "EV
friends conversion house" where you pay or rent place/tools/courses/parts could
be another one.....and much more.
Imagine a place where you come at 8:00 with your infernal combustion engine
Yaris car and can go at 18:00 with a beautiful registered EV :^)
we need:
one modern commuter donor.
few initial day/nights of active brainstorming to define
fast/clean/professional "Taylorised" operations for EV parts ready to mount.
and someone in the starts for registration race :^)
I think with good initial preparation assembly of standard parts, one day
conversion can be a real "everybody win" business :^)
Lot's of ideas which seems possible in USA...ok, i will stop here, don't want
to be too tedious :^)
Philippe
Far far away from Eldorado
---------- Initial Header -----------
>From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To : "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Cc :
Date : Sun, 04 Dec 2005 16:12:28 -0800
Subject : conversion kits
I don't get much time to read the list anymore but skim it once and a while.
The recent posts about kits available for newer cars caught my eye.
We have been converting the S-10 trucks for over 15 years now and have a
very complete bolt in kit for them. We even offer a complete pre wired
kit so you just plug in all the supplied harnesses. We also have been
selling kits for the Geo Metro for over 10 years. Last year we did a
Toyota Echo which could be a future kit as well as the Dodge Neon we are
trying to find time to finnish. To be honest though, conversions are
only about 5% of our business and I cant see anyone making a living on
just conversions. People that can afford the $$ to convert a vehicle
usually buy an SUV and those that think EV's are cool don't have the
cash to do a conversion. :(
All our conversions are supplied with CAD drawings for all the
electrical and we have all the CAD drawings for all the mechanical parts
so they can be easily duplicated by our machine shop.
Hope to see some of you at the Electric drive conference in Vancouver
this week. Booth 121
BFN
Randy
--
Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd.
PO, Box 616, 1184 Middlegate Rd.
Errington, British Columbia,
Canada, V0R 1V0
Phone: (250) 954-2230
Fax: (250) 954-2235
Website: http://www.canev.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manufactures of: "Might-E Truck"
EV conversion Kits and components
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Joe,
The batteries I talking about is the 12 volt 130 AH Trojan 225 that provides
the 12 volt system for the EV. It sets in a the uninsulated tray in the front
of the EV. I should install a battery blanket around it as I had in the past.
The smart charger is on board in the large charger compartment in the rear of
the vehicle which also has the PFC-50. The PFC-50 charger can be contactor
disconnected from the main battery pack and I can adjust the voltage to about
15.5 volts which I can transfer switch from the PFC-50 from the main battery
pack to the 12 volt battery.
My old battery charger had this system for the last 30 years, which works good.
But I had the bright ideal of installing a separated 12 Volt smart charger so
I can charge the main battery pack and 12 volt battery pack at the same time.
This work good all summer long, UNTIL LAST WEEK when it got to 5 below in with
10 hours.
The EV setting in a 72 degree garage, the 12 volt battery was at 100 percent
charge, as indicated by the percentage indications. I drove it only 1 mile
with only the 12 volt supply only the Zilla power, nothing else is on. Let the
EV set for 1 hour at 5 below. Got back home and the percentage indicator shows
only 51 percent
Let it set for 16 hours in a 72 degree garage which the percentage indicator
show it went way up to 55 percent. Charge it with the smart charger that the
voltage indicator went from 13.2 to 15.1 in 15 minutes which it show 100
percent charge.
I just checking the voltage and percentage now after I ran the EV for the same
1 mile and let it set 60 minutes at 0 degrees. The battery is setting at 55
percent charge. Charge it for 15 minutes and its now at 100 percent. The
battery temperature is at 66 degrees.
The minute I roll the EV out in the 0 degree temperature, this percentage will
drop from 100 percent to about 50 percent in a hour, while only drawing less
than 6 amps, running the Zilla and contactor for 4 minutes, let the EV set for
60 minutes at 0 degrees and I will bet it will be down in the 50 percent range
when I get back.
The smart charger charges from 13.5 to 15.5 volts and at times sometimes to
16.2 volts, but it stays only less than 30 seconds at any voltage over 15.5
volts.
Now with the PFC-15 charger, I can adjust it to 15.5 volts maximum which also
takes less than 15 minutes to get there at 40 amp charge, but it will hold the
15.5 volts for a time out of 30 minutes until the battery ampere drops to less
than 10 amps in that time.
Now when I take the EV out in 0 degree temperature for 60 minutes, I can have
the 12 volt battery run the Zilla, a contactor that takes 5 amps, two cooling
fans that take 10 amps, and DC-AC inverter that runs the Zilla cooling pumps,
head lights, full dash indicator display and sound system for 8 minutes of
driving.
The 12 volt battery is now only down to 83 percent charge!!!
The smart charger is not so smart in knowing what the ambient temperature is.
The only way to overcome this, is charge the 12 volt battery outside with the
smart charger or charge it inside with the PFC-50.
What the smart charger needs is a temperature probe that can read the outside
temperature, like a HoneyWell heating system does, where it adjust the charger
current proportional to the temperature drop.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Smalley<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: Am I Killing Batteries?(+)
Wow, That is quite a testimony about the behavior of a smart charger and a
PFC-50.
How many batteries were involved in the tests (sample size) and how long was
the charge cycle on each charger?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: Am I Killing Batteries?(+)
> I have one of these Smart Chargers that are automatic as well as Rich's
PFC-50 charger. The automatic charger cannot do one thing that the PFC-50
does, it does not know what the outside ambient temperature while the auto
charger is charging a battery inside a 74 degree building.
>
> Charging a battery with the auto charger to 100 percent shows 12.6 volts
after setting 24 hours. Using the PFC-50, I can adjust the voltage to 15.53
and the battery will show 12.8 volts after setting 24 hours.
>
> I cannot adjust any voltage on the smart charger, only current.
>
> Now I take both batteries outside in 0 degree temperature for 60 minutes
(in my EV in a non-insulated compartment)
>
> The battery that was charge with the smart charger shows only 66 percent
charge, while the battery that was charge with the PFC-50 shows 88 percent
charge after driving 1 mile at 50 battery amp for 4 minutes.
>
> Charging with the smart auto charger, the voltage indications per 12 volt
battery goes from 13.5V to 15.0V and back down to 14.5V. Holds it there for
a while, than it may go to 15.5V and sometimes to 16.2 volts for about 2
minutes and finally back to 14.5 volts. Its then finish charges to 13.5
and holds a maintaining charge of 12.66 volts.
>
> After all that, the auto charge battery shows 66 percent. After four days
of running at 2 miles a days for 8 miles in 32 minutes, this auto charge
battery was down to 9.5 volts or about 10 percent.
>
> The PFC-50 charge battery was only down to 12.2 volts or 78 percent.
>
> I'm not going to charge these batteries outside in temperature from 0 to
50 below. I did this one time at 40 below of which I could charge the
batteries to 16.8V per 12V battery or 252 volts for a 180 volt pack with the
PFC-50B. There was no bubbling at all!! After a week of running to work and
back which is a 4 mile trip or 20 miles, I still had over 80 percent charge
when I let it set in a 72 degree building for 24 hours.
>
> I do not like that Smart charger, because I cannot adjust the voltage for
what the temperature the battery will be place in.
>
> Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi Evan
yes it exist with near exact word to word translation (réception à titre isolé)
but thats not simple here:
If your car modification bring it to an existing car (motor upgrade/change)
it's "simple"
If your car modification bring it to something new then you take "single
vehicle approval" pain side:
they ask you to pay for extensive and expensive test...result is not known at
start and each try you pay !
i'm aware of only 1 unique EV conversion registered, the fellow
converted/registered a Citroen 2CV to electric during 1970 years, it start as a
pain then he spoke to the good person, a friend at French government...not
possible nowdays.
thanks for the offer but if you don't paid for european homologation,
registering in france a UK legal E-conversion is the same problem or are you
proposing to let me drive your right positionned drivewheel cars :^)
Paris is just 3 hours from my house, Do you want to degust good French
specialities and wine ? which ones that are served to tourist are not the same
;^)
let me know when you are at home, we will talk about our PSA EV survival
project again :^)
Philippe
---------- Initial Header -----------
>From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To : [email protected]
Cc :
Date : Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:03:06 +0100
Subject : Re: KTA Services Website, other Stuff.
Philippe, do you have a thing called "single vehicle approval" in
France? In the UK, this is what you use to register kit-built,
self-built or extensively modified cars, avoiding homologation. It's
quite a "strict" test but they use good principles and it's not
expensive, although you have to do it for every car. Then you can
drive anywhere in Europe, or sell it I think.. So maybe you can do
the conversion in my garage and drive it back (only 20 miles to the
ferry.. further on your side :))
Anyway, back to reality, we have a smaller project to finish first
(when I get back from Paris!)
best regards
evan (typing on a french kb is no fun!)
On 12/4/05, Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In fact i just see an article which say Mercedes is brainstorming about
> introducing the smart to USA, final decision for 2006...
> The toyota i speak about is named Yaris.
>
> Funny we have oposit difficulties: USA permit E-conversion but don't have
> modern tiny commuter cars, then we have such cars in europe but can't
> convert them and drive on French roads because too restrictive laws...
> Importing UK/DE... E-conversion go through same homologation rules which
> block us converting cars in France so i'm still looking for legal
> solutions...
>
> cordialement,
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:39 PM
> Subject: Re: KTA Services Website, other Stuff.
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 8:32 AM
> > Subject: Re: KTA Services Website
> >
> >
> > > Maybe you are not on the good side of the pond, in Germany and even in
> > > France Rabbit model your kit is made for are still on the road :^)
> > > named "Golf" in france.
> > >
> > Probably not many as it rains and snows in Europe, and they rust away?
> >
> > > Newer models kit conversion:
> >
> > I wish, not many cars nowadaze that are much lighter than my Rabbit
> > WITH all the batteries aboard. 3100lbs is pretty common kerb weight for
> ANY
> > small car, nowadaze!
> >
> > > I believe firmly in knowledge sharing and people association:
> > >
> > > alone you can make your house, together we made cathedrals :^)
> >
> > > Hey! Thanks! I Like that! Give new meaning to Preaching to the Choir?
> > That's why we're here, and we have fun doing it.
> >
> > > In EV tiny market, few people don't want to share easly information,
> > > knowledge... because they prefer waiting for D day when they would make
> > > money with it. (talking about nobody in particular here ok, just human
> > > nature :^)
> > > Wake up men, it's not going to happen so quickly if we seat waiting for
> a
> > > miracle.
> > > Let's be the "miracle" !
> > >
> > Amen!
> >
> > We try to spread info here, best we can.
> >
> > > Ask at fellow which made a beautiful conversion of the tiny new model
> > toyota
> > > (i forgot the name) if he wants to work with you, he made it true, your
> > > knowledge can perfect it et voila a new "all around the world" usable EV
> > kit
> > > :^)
> > There are nice small, light cars that we can't get here in USA. Like the
> > better-than-Prius VW Lupo Diseasel, and a gaggle of other hy miliage stuff
> > we can"t have, Smart comes to mind.Somebody pointed this out on the Yahoo
> > EV's for Sale Group, you can count on one hand the number of 40 MPG cars
> you
> > can actually BUY in USA!
> > >
> > > I know words are simpler than acts but it's not more complicated...
> > > You can make that TODAY in USA and i'm jalous of this possibility, i
> would
> > > like making such E-conversion here in France, stupid laws :^(
> > > ...
> > Huh? I guess France is like Portugal? I mean about changing a lot of
> stuff
> > on a car? I chatted with a guy in Portugal, a few years ago. He said that
> > you couldn't just yank out the engine and stuff out of a car and fit it
> as
> > electric, steam, nuclear, hamsters.....what EVer you wanted. Car wouldn't
> > pass road inspection? Something like that? Or peoplle don't build stuff
> like
> > roadsters, hot rod type things swapping engines costomising bodies
> > etc??Dragsters? OK I guess as you don't run them, usually, in the street?
> > Casn't put a big block Chevy engine in a Renault Dauphine, if you could
> FIND
> > one?Engine OR car<g>!
> >
> > So I guess that there aren't many(any) EV conversions in France?Could
> ya
> > buy one from, say the UK?Germany?Italy?Do Motor Laws vary much from
> country
> > to country, in Europe?
> >
> > > Then you will fight to share parts of the world EV conversion market
> (just
> > > human nature again...)
> > > :^)
> > >
> > > cordialement,
> > > Philippe
> >
> > > Seeya
> >
> > Bob
> > > Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> > > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> > >
> >
>
>
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--- End Message ---
