EV Digest 4977
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Clooney and Leno discuss their electric cars
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Clooney and Leno discuss their electric cars
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Setting up a Direct Drive, Comments
by "Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Setting up a Direct Drive, Comments
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Leno does not have a Crossfire conversion, was Clooney and Leno discuss
their electric cars
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Reflections on the EDTA Conference - Vancouver BC - LONG
by Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Open Source Car Development
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Aircraft designers look at new forms of energy
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Setting up a Direct Drive
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) NEDRA Announces the 2006 High Voltage Nationals
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Setting up a Direct Drive
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Open Source electric car
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Some motivation for your EV!
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) article: Swiss bail out electric car venture
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Puekert for Yellow Tops
by Jim Walls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) programming a vicor dc/dc
by Jimmy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: NEDRA Announces the 2006 High Voltage Nationals
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Some motivation for your EV!
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Dump Charging
by "Rodney A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Puekert for Yellow Tops
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: programming a vicor dc/dc
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: WaveCrest hub motors?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Dump Charging
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Puekert for Yellow Tops
by "EAA-contact" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Dump Charging
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Dump Charging
by "Rodney A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: NEDRA Announces the 2006 High Voltage Nationals
by James Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Dump Charging
by "Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Aircraft designers look at new forms of energy
by "Mueller, Craig M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: Dump Charging
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Monster Garage Update
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) My first year - Was: Re: Open source car development? - Long
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, Dec 09, 2005 at 02:12:22PM -0800, Nick Austin wrote:
<..snip..>
> in the pictures, the motors look like ETeks.
On closer inspection, it looks like it is not an ETek, just a really shiny
DC motor of some sort. I guess my eyes were playing tricks on me :)
I would still be intrested in any other specs on this car though.
>
> Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Austin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I looked all over, but I could not find detailed specs. Where
> did you find the packs energy storage ability?
If you google "iCeL", you will eventually find the page:
<http://www.icelusa.com/pro/Transporation/Cars/trans_cars.php>
Which seems to list the same Crossfire conversion, but states 176V,
153A, 372lbs battery weight.
Elsewhere on the icelusa site you can find specs of 192Wh/kg for iCeL
1865[0?] cells. Max discharge rate is spec'ed as 2C, and continuous
rate is 1C.
372lbs is 169kg, so the Crossfire pack appears to [possibly] have in the
ballpark of 32kWh of energy storage.
176V x 153A = ~27kW vs the quoted 28kW "iCel power" for the Crossfire
pack.
Assuming something like 30kWh of usable energy, 100mi range implies an
energy consumption of about 300Wh/mi, which is quite possible, though
*not* at the implied 90mph speed. That is, the Crossfire spec reads
like it can do 100mi+ at a speed of 90mph, when the reality is more
likely that it can do 90mph and get up to 100mi+ per charge, but not
both at the same time.
> Also, in the pictures, the motors look like ETeks.
It looks like this at first glance, but if you stare at it a bit longer
you will realise that it is an ordinary series wound DC motor. It
appears that the case is either highly polished or printed with a
high-gloss finish, such that the body of the motor between the aluminum
endbells (what appear to be two Eteks separated by space) is difficult
to make out.
The controller is also clearly a Curtis 1221 or 1231.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hiya
I have been playing around with the same idea for a custom car that I plan
to build. Problem is that DC motors rev only up to around 5000-6000 RPM.
That means, as Bob says, you can get away with direct drive but at lower
speeds you end up using a whole heaps of amps from the battery, which
decimates your range. Other end of the scale is using a higher gear ratio
and sacrificing top end.. But you still end up using a lot of amps at lower
speeds (where you do most of your driving).
I am building a car, so I don't have to worry about conversions and use of
existing tranny, hence why I would love to do direct drive.. But not at the
expense of range.
I'm up for any other ideas.
Cheers
Rod
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--- Begin Message ---
Rodney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have been playing around with the same idea for a custom
> car that I plan to build. Problem is that DC motors rev only
> up to around 5000-6000 RPM. That means, as Bob says, you can
> get away with direct drive but at lower speeds you end up
> using a whole heaps of amps from the battery, which decimates
> your range. Other end of the scale is using a higher gear
> ratio and sacrificing top end.. But you still end up using a
> lot of amps at lower speeds (where you do most of your driving).
I think the real key is that direct drive is really only practical if
you are building/converting a rear wheel drive vehicle. In this case,
you can easily connect the motor directly to the driveshaft and do not
need for fabricate/arrange any other reduction ratio between the motor
and wheels other than that provided by the diff.
In the case of FWD, you cannot easily get at the input to the diff, and
significantly more work is involved either doing this or connecting a
pair of motors directly to the half shafts.
Note however, that it is *motor* current that is greatly increased at
low speeds with a direct drive setup, not battery amps. At low motor
speeds (and hence low vehicle speeds) the motor requires only a low
voltage; the controller steps down the voltage and in doing so allows
the motor current to be proportionately higher than the battery current.
For instance, if your motor only needs 1/10th of the battery voltage,
then the motor current can be 10x higher than the battery current.
Retaining a tranny and shifting between 2nd and 3rd (for instance) may
allow you something like a 10% greater range than leaving it in 3rd
continuously (I think Otmar reported similar numbers to this for his
California Poppy conversion), however, it is likely the difference would
be even smaller if one ditched the weight of the tranny altogether and
were able to use a fixed ratio somewhere between that of 2nd and 3rd (of
course this would probably reduce the vehicle's ultimate top speed).
The big decision is whether to ditch the relatively inexpensive tranny
and replace it with a suitably powerful (i.e. more expensive) motor
controller (may be a moot point, since the real motor controller choice
these days is whether you want your 'Zilla with 1000A or 2000A ;^) or
not. The advantage to ditching the tranny is that you save the weight
and space it would otherwise occupy and also save the (relatively small)
losses associated with it. The disadvantage is that you will probably
lose a bit of range, and *may* end up with a vehicle that has either
lower acceleration or lower top speed than it could have.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
I would just like to end this rumor right here. Hybrid Technologies no
longer mentions Jay Leno in their hype. Chaz Haba is behind these companies.
There has been much mentioned of this person on this list. You can check the
archives or do a Google Search. Here is some info on Chaz Haba from Stock
Lemon: http://www.stocklemon.com/articles/03_12_04.html. I forwarded this
information and the press releases by Chaz Haba stating that Jay Leno
purchased one of his cars to a personal friend of mine who has Jay's home
phone number and had him pass this info on to him. Heck, I wouldn't even
know how to find out even who his agent is. It's all part of that six degree
stuff I guess. Anyway , this probably explains why you will no longer hear
mention of Jay Leno's name associated with Chaz Haba or any of his
companies. My guess would be that Jay's attorneys had a little talk with
Chaz. Jay did however take one test ride in their converted Crossfire
earlier on.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Austin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Clooney and Leno discuss their electric cars
On Fri, Dec 09, 2005 at 12:52:58PM -0800, jerry dycus wrote:
Hi Jeff and All,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I thought Leno had a lithium powered Chrysler Crossfire with Valance
batts?
Neat! It looks cool.
http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/products.php?sec=3
Does anybody know how much they cost?
<..snip..>
If he is a savey buyer and I think he is, he will shortly, or has, found
out that it can't do what it said it could as it's battery pack is too
small to go the range they told him.
I looked all over, but I could not find detailed specs. Where did you find
the
packs energy storage ability?
I did notice that they indicate the "power system" is 25KW. Also, in the
pictures, the motors look like ETeks. I did not think you could get that
much
out of an ETek. Does anybody here have any examples of full sized ETek
powered
conversions?
Thanks!
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I get two of just about everything Steve Lough sends. Am I on the list
twice??
thanks for checking,
dave
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I Love Open Source , I am almost an Open Source Preacher. WHen I made My
adapter for the 300zx, I posted my measurements on my desktop server. (I
need to create a site) http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/
And while I would like to see such a thing take place with controllers
adapters and such, it seems best suited for the conversion market. There
is this stumbling block. No-one can create every part in a car,
Outsourcing is required. With that comes confidentiality agreements that
put a damper on what can be put in the open source.
--- End Message ---
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I wonder if they'd try to do a sailplane with regen?
If they find excess lift from a thermal or just need to descend, the
prop can be used as a wind generator to recharge the batteries. I bet
somebody would take quite a bit of pride in landing with more energy
than they took off with.
Danny
Charles Whalen wrote:
Two articles of interest from the December 2005 issue of AOPA Pilot
magazine:
Aircraft designers look at new forms of energy
------------------------------------------------
Energy. It's one of those heavy load-bearing words like love or war that
mean many things to people on different levels. Lately it's been connected
with the word crisis, thanks to escalating gas prices. To futurists, it
means opportunity.
Several projects are under way to take advantage of multiple forms of
energy. Alisport, an Italian aircraft company, says it has produced the
world's first production electric-powered aircraft with its Silent2 and
Silent Club self-launching sailplanes. The initial thrust stemmed not so
much from fuel prices, but from noise restrictions in Europe. The Silent
Club can climb at 470 fpm up to an altitude of 2,500 feet on one charge.
Unlike combustion engines, the electric motor is not affected by density
altitude. It looks like a normal slick composite glider, but housed in trap
doors behind the pilot, the electric motor and prop lift up and forward like
a pocketknife. Once the pilot has reached enough altitude for soaring
conditions, the motor and propeller retract.
--- End Message ---
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I don't know yet if it is practicle but I drove my nissan 300zx with
stock tranny and warp 9 with zilla 1k in it for a few weeks and am gonna
switch to a siamese motor setup without tranny.
I used second as a great gear to launch in and 3rd as a great gear to
cruise in town. Fourth was quiet and would make a good highway gear.
The gear ratios are 2nd = 1.902
3rd = 1.308
4th = 1.000
When I am using the 2 motors in series I will have twice the torque at
launch, so almost same as 1.902 2nd gear then switching to parallel
will be same as 4th gear. If I can afford more contactors, I may
get the field coils split allowing a electronic ratio between the
series and parallel
Here is the caveot
for a simple series parallel you need 2 DPDT contactors, but we also
gave up reverse with tranny, so another set of contactors(can save one
by only reversing 1 motor; see cafe electric zilla docs) That is also 8
cables from the motor up to the contactor box.
My speedo is a $200 sensor that plugs intot the hole and sends pulses
tot he speedo unit and it happes to be not working at the moment, So I
am gonna see what other kind of speed sensors will work. But consider
this, you have to have a speed sensor for the motor to the zilla and
without a tranny, the rpm of the motor will always be related to the
speed. So simply routing the tach signal from the zilla or sensor or
maybe a divide by n circuit should be doable. An after market tach with
a new face or calibrated can become your speedo.
other: with a final drive of 3.7 and a 24" tire, 840 rotations per mile
At 60 mph that is 840rpm wheel or 3109 RPM at the motor. so if tach is
just past the big 3 for 3000 rpm I am doing 60
at 90mph is 4664 rpm, I think that is ok for the motor.
I am doing this because it was a lot to adapt to the tranny and I blew
the motor so easily during a shift.
Also the tranny was really noisy, and it was just rebuilt! especially
2nd and 3rd. This ought to be smooth and quiet and eliminate 2 more
quarts of oil :-)
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Route 66 Raceway in Joliet, Illinois will be holding the HIGH VOLTAGE
NATIONALS May 13, 2006.
The event is being organized by High Voltage Racing, the Fox Valley
Electric Auto Association (FVEAA) and is sanctioned by the National
Electric Drag Racing Association (NEDRA).
All pure electric vehicles (2, 3, and 4 or more wheels) are invited to
participate, either as a static display or drag race in the NEDRA event.
All alternative fuel vehicles (cng, hydrogen, propane, bio diesel,
veggie oil, steam, etc.) and hybrids of all makes and fuels are also
welcome to participate as part of the Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AVF)
Expo which is also being held at the Route 66 Raceway.
Prizes include trophies and cash awards.
This is in conjunction with the Joliet Township High School's
(JTHS) Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AVF) Expo.
The event will also be held in conjunction with the 5th EVer EAA
All-Chapters Conference that same weekend from May 12 to 14th which
will also be hosted by the FVEAA. The 5th EVer is a gathering of EAA
Chapters to conference about opportunities to promote and develop EVs.
The HIGH VOLTAGE NATIONALS will be an annual event and joins the
BATTERY BEACH BURNOUT as NEDRA's two newest events for 2006. Stay tuned
for more information as it develops.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
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The Solectria E-10 had a direct drive. It was an 3 phase AC system that had 2
motors in the rear (each had its own controller). The motors were in back of
the rear axle, coupled to a drive pulley vial drive belts. I would guess that
the differential had a special gearing to it. It was a 144v system with
Hawkers, 3 strings of 12 batteries each. There were 12 up front and 24 under
the bed.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Silverman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 1:57 PM
Subject: Setting up a Direct Drive
>I could use some help in thinking about how to
> properly connect an electric motor to a driveshaft
> through a u-joint. I want to set up a direct drive
> for a rear wheel-drive car. What is the best way to
> do this?
>
> Thanks
>
> Joel
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A second look at what has been done brings the kit car philosophy back
to light. Reading about the tzero's construction gives some clues.
The gearbox was a stock honda transmission stripped of gears and some
new gears fitted in.
So with a similar kit car at only about 5K, an old voltswagon, and just
a few custom parts, perhaps we can make a supplemental kit to go with
the vw style kit cars to make EV's.
Licensing is not much a problem if you keep the original VW pan.
Now an opensource AC controller, BMS, battery box and such may have a
standard roller to build on. battery choices are what get me
1 flodded lead acid - to heavy and messy
2 sealed lead acid - clean, but still heavy and more managment and $
3 nicad - environmental issues
4 nimh - ownership and pack cooling and cost issues
___________________________________________________________________________
5 li-ion - cost and bms issues, but getting better
6 li-poly - cost and bms issues, but getting
much,much better
I think 2 and 6 if we are selling them, 1 and 2 for self builders.???
Motors
A motor is pretty simple, I wonder if we could consider small
production runs. or....
I wanted to make a motor and did a little research, the huge cost
difference between motors and having that same motor rewound is the
difference between the automatic winding machine amortizing accross
hundreds(or 10s of thousands) of motors and the process of hand winding
and stuffing.
So, like people building kit planes and boats in there garage we take
the expensive part, hand wind and stuff the motor, and let that be the
"at home" task and then just take down to local motor shop for the dip
and bake. The kit will have the laser cut laminations, aluminum housing,
shafts and end bells.
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http://www.hpjvids.com/ndacut/LYNCH.mpg
Can a 13" motor run like that? What type of AC setup will it take to
get performance like that? Faster then that actually... ;)
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Think will be around a little while longer:
http://story.irishsun.com/p.x/ct/9/id/a4417fe8a53ca126/cid/3a8a80d6f705f8cc/
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
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Since it's not listed in the Link-20 manual, anyone have a Puekert
Exponent for a Optima D34/78 Yellow Top off the top of your head? And,
yes, I know that a "stock value" for a Yellow Top should be just a
starting point, but it should get me close until I measure an actual value.
Thanks
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ofc: 818-548-4804
http://home.earthlink.net/~k6ccc
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
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Does anyone have an install manual or know how to
"program the output voltage" of a Vicor VI-51-CQ dc/dc
converter? These are the Solectria E10 (circa 1995)
converters and are running around 11.9 volts, we would
like to kick it up to at least 13v.
Thanks,
Jimmy
--- End Message ---
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Joliet, Illinois!?
Hot damn! That's a few hours drive from where I live, and I
would gladly meet other list members and see(and perhaps
ride in) the EVs others have built.
Mine certainly won't be an EV by then, unfortunately.
College, fuel, and groceries are more important.
I might drive the Triumph up as a gas car if I attend, under
the condition that it is sufficiently restored, maybe even
race it. It's quite fast, certainly much faster than the
stock 10 second 0-60 and has no problem laying down rubber.
Never took it to the track or timed it, but it 'feels' like
it does 0-60 in about 7 seconds or less. It could just be my
senses deceiving me though, or maybe a K&N air filter and
dual Weber carbs on a rebuilt engine with increased
displacement might have something to do with that as well.
My god that beautiful sound that resonates from that engine,
it's as if a Harley Davidson is getting ass raped by a
Formula Racecar when the tach hits 6000. <g>
If I don't bring the Triumph, I could bring my piece of shit
Ford Contour. Two years back it ran mid to upper 15s when
the launch was done right, 0-60 in the mid 7 second region.
The speedo has seen 130 after tampering with the rev
limiter, but I don't know how accurate the speedometer is, I
assume +/- 5% or so. Probably won't be racing it unless I
get a new fan belt, as that's about to go out. Makes the
case for EVs even more, as to install a new one myself would
virtually require taking the goddamn car apart, and I don't
like the idea of paying someone hundreds of dollars to work
on it. Just changing the oil on it is a nightmare, but
spending 2 or 3 hours and out cussing a sailor is worth
saving $20 or so.
Damn I wish I had an EV. There'd be no worries there. And I
would be diverting less of my money to the oil man, of which
I'd prefer to eliminate directly spending my money on
altogether.(Buying products and goods that are shipped using
oil is another matter that I can exert little or no control
over other than to not buy the product, and knowing which
products used how much oil is nigh impossible, but I do try
to buy local)
I've never ridden in an electric car. I'd love to have that
chance, just to get a feel for how they ride and so I know
what to expect from a properly completed conversion. After
all, I'm going to be pouring a shitload of time and cash
into making my Triumph an EV, eventually a high performance
EV after starting out as a cheap conversion to get a feel
for my EV training wheels. I don't want it to be an
expensive disaster. Given my lead foot, I don't expect my
first pack of floodies to last long. Maybe I'll see if I can
outdo Wayland and kill them in 3 months from abusive
acceleration, finances permitting!
Out of curiousity, who from this list will be attending? I'd
love to meet some of you, if only to see your vehicles. If
there will be any high pro EVs in attendence, it will make
things that much more interesting. For that matter, maybe I
might be able to convince some family members to attend,
although they don't seem anywhere near as interested in EVs
as I do(although when gas hit $3/gallon they sure started
paying attention!).
I assume this date and location are subject to change, but
even still, I look forward to attending in the case that it
doesn't change.
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She's meaness put to music and the bitch is born to run!
My, the possibilities with deep pockets. I bet that car has
at least $60k in it. That same amount of cash would get you
twin WarP 11s, twin Zilla 2ks, line lock, PFC50, and two
336V sets of Hawker Aerobatteries perhaps with $20k left to
spare. That $20k would probably be needed for a custom job
ala Ghia Monster.
Now, tires permitting, what do you think that would pull? A
2,500-2,800 pound EV with twin WarP 11s, twin Zilla 2ks, and
double the Hawker Aerobatteries of the White Zombie? 9s? 8s?
Good luck getting the traction. Getting into the 11s in a
street legal EV is quite obviously hard enough. Got torque?
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I'm looking for ideas about rapid charging a Li-ion and also a Trojan pack
of batteries. The Li-Ion pack is a 300V, 400 Ahr pack, while the Trojan is a
144V 55 Ahr pack.
Would dump charging be an option? I was thinking if you could set up a solar
array on a house roof, feeding slowly into a battery or capacitor pack, then
dump charge the EV very quickly?
Or maybe there is a better way to self dump charge?
Rod
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1.11 for the Peukert's exponent if I remember correctly.
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--- Begin Message ---
Try this link:
http://www.vicr.com/documents/applications_manual/05outputvolttrim.pdf
-Myles
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jimmy
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:35 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: programming a vicor dc/dc
>
>
> Does anyone have an install manual or know how to
> "program the output voltage" of a Vicor VI-51-CQ dc/dc
> converter? These are the Solectria E10 (circa 1995)
> converters and are running around 11.9 volts, we would
> like to kick it up to at least 13v.
> Thanks,
> Jimmy
>
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They bought a charger from me about a year ago...
Sorry, I know nothing about them.
Victor
Don Cameron wrote:
Anybody hear of, or work with this company or their products?
www.wavecrestlabs.com
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
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What does the manufacturer recommend for the maximum charging rate?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodney A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 9:28 PM
Subject: Dump Charging
>
> I'm looking for ideas about rapid charging a Li-ion and also a Trojan pack
> of batteries. The Li-Ion pack is a 300V, 400 Ahr pack, while the Trojan is
a
> 144V 55 Ahr pack.
>
> Would dump charging be an option? I was thinking if you could set up a
solar
> array on a house roof, feeding slowly into a battery or capacitor pack,
then
> dump charge the EV very quickly?
>
> Or maybe there is a better way to self dump charge?
>
> Rod
>
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Use Sparrownauts use 1.09 -Ed Thorpe--- On Sat 12/10, John Westlund <
[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:From: John Westlund [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 23:25:43 -0600Subject: Re: Puekert for
Yellow Tops1.11 for the Peukert's exponent if I remember correctly.
_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
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Li-ion standard cells maximum charge rate is 1C unless you use fast charge
li-ion cells (i heard about 2C and 3C now)
fast charge is critical on all batteries and li-ion and nihm are the more
problematic.
Is this dump charge just an idea or you have find a fast charge type li-ion
cell ?
though fast charging 400Ah cell is going to be a challenge :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodney A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 6:28 AM
Subject: Dump Charging
>
> I'm looking for ideas about rapid charging a Li-ion and also a Trojan pack
> of batteries. The Li-Ion pack is a 300V, 400 Ahr pack, while the Trojan is
a
> 144V 55 Ahr pack.
>
> Would dump charging be an option? I was thinking if you could set up a
solar
> array on a house roof, feeding slowly into a battery or capacitor pack,
then
> dump charge the EV very quickly?
>
> Or maybe there is a better way to self dump charge?
>
> Rod
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Li-ion pack has a max 3C discharge/charge rate... not quite sure about
the Trojans, but you guys know that one i'm sure
:-)
Just wondering if dump charging would be feasible at all.... especially with
the Li-ion pack that would otherwise take quite a while to charge up.
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice, this is closer then the Power of DC for me, looks like it's going
to be a
busy year!
Quoting Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Route 66 Raceway in Joliet, Illinois will be holding the HIGH VOLTAGE
NATIONALS May 13, 2006.
The event is being organized by High Voltage Racing, the Fox Valley
Electric Auto Association (FVEAA) and is sanctioned by the National
Electric Drag Racing Association (NEDRA).
All pure electric vehicles (2, 3, and 4 or more wheels) are invited
to participate, either as a static display or drag race in the NEDRA
event.
All alternative fuel vehicles (cng, hydrogen, propane, bio diesel,
veggie oil, steam, etc.) and hybrids of all makes and fuels are also
welcome to participate as part of the Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AVF)
Expo which is also being held at the Route 66 Raceway.
Prizes include trophies and cash awards.
This is in conjunction with the Joliet Township High School's (JTHS)
Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AVF) Expo.
The event will also be held in conjunction with the 5th EVer EAA
All-Chapters Conference that same weekend from May 12 to 14th which
will also be hosted by the FVEAA. The 5th EVer is a gathering of EAA
Chapters to conference about opportunities to promote and develop EVs.
The HIGH VOLTAGE NATIONALS will be an annual event and joins the
BATTERY BEACH BURNOUT as NEDRA's two newest events for 2006. Stay
tuned for more information as it develops.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually the Li-ion pack has a 3C max discharge/charge rate, while the
Trojans I am not sure about (but im sure someone here knows..)
I am just trying to work out a way to charge these batteries as quickly as
possible.. Charging these from a normal socket (10-20A at 240V) will take
quite a while, even going to an industrial line using a PFC-50 would take
some time.. So trying to work out the fastest way.. I thought dump charging
would be a good, and economical way to do it...
Would capacitors for a dump charge set be better than another battery set?
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the info, Charles. I took a few minutes to find links to the
A/C noted (except, I couldn't find a website for Advanced Technology
Products in Worcester, Massachusetts)...
Alisport
http://www.alisport.com
Antares
http://www.lange-flugzeugbau.com/english/menu/menu-akt.htm
solar-flight
http://www.solar-flight.com/
Stemme Motorglider Brochure
http://www.skysailing.com/pages/S10_E.pdf
Stemme Movie
http://www.agcsc.org/video/Stemme_beachrun.mov
Stemme USA Motorglider S10-VT
http://www.stemmewest.com/
Best regards,
Craig
'93 Electric Daytona IROC
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Whalen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 10:37 AM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Aircraft designers look at new forms of energy
Two articles of interest from the December 2005 issue of AOPA Pilot
magazine:
Aircraft designers look at new forms of energy
------------------------------------------------
Energy. It's one of those heavy load-bearing words like love or war
that
mean many things to people on different levels. Lately it's been
connected
with the word crisis, thanks to escalating gas prices. To futurists, it
means opportunity.
Several projects are under way to take advantage of multiple forms of
energy. Alisport, an Italian aircraft company, says it has produced the
world's first production electric-powered aircraft with its Silent2 and
Silent Club self-launching sailplanes. The initial thrust stemmed not
so
much from fuel prices, but from noise restrictions in Europe. The
Silent
Club can climb at 470 fpm up to an altitude of 2,500 feet on one charge.
Unlike combustion engines, the electric motor is not affected by density
altitude. It looks like a normal slick composite glider, but housed in
trap
doors behind the pilot, the electric motor and prop lift up and forward
like
a pocketknife. Once the pilot has reached enough altitude for soaring
conditions, the motor and propeller retract.
Another electric-powered self-launching sailplane called the Antares is
being developed by Lange Flugzeugbau in Germany.
On a full charge it can climb quietly to 10,000 feet with its
57-horsepower
motor. It can be recharged in the field by a portable generator.
Besides
the obvious advantages offered by mechanical simplicity, electric motors
improve reliability so that with enough juice left in the batteries, the
pilot could potentially work his way out of a jam. Accidents have
occurred
in self-launching piston-powered gliders when pilots let themselves get
too
low and weren't able to start the gas engines in time.
If there is such a thing as a hybrid aircraft currently in production --
to
draw a parallel with the auto industry -- it has to be the Stemme S10-VT
motorglider. It has the glide ratio (50-to-1) of an Open Class racing
glider once the propeller is tucked away in the nose, yet can cruise at
140
knots above 10,000 feet. With a 115-horsepower turbocharged Rotax
engine,
it has a service ceiling of about 30,000 feet. By taking advantage of
wind-generated mountain wave and ridge lift as well as thermals, the
only
real limitations are the pilot's skill and creativity.
A California company called Solar Flight, meanwhile, has been examing
the
Stemme S10 closely and thinks it's what future electric-powered aircraft
will look like. Solar Flight plans to build a two-seater, similar to
the
Stemme, followed by a four-seater. Solar Flight was founded by Eric
Raymond, who flew the single-seat solar-powered Sunseeker across the
United
States in 1990 over a 21-day period. Solar Flight also is developing a
solar-powered blimp called the Sunship. The company hopes it will be
the
first solar-powered aircraft to fly around the world.
And Jim Dunn of Advanced Technology Products in Worcester,
Massachusetts,
has been developing an airplane powered by a hydrogen fuel cell as part
of a
learning project for students at Worcester Polytechnic Institute. The
aircraft is a lightweight French-made DynAero Lafayette III and
potentially
could have a range of more than 500 miles.
AOPA Online survey: Avgas prices
-------------------------------------
Eight-six percent of respondents to AOPA's recent online survey say that
increases in avgas prices have affected their flying. And anecdotal
information showed wild fluctuations in avgas prices throughout the
country
with some who paid more than $5 per gallon. While many respondents said
they had already cut back on flying as avgas prices surged past $3 and
$4
per gallon, 391 out of 575 respondents (68 percent) said they would
curtail
their flying if avgas reaches $5 per gallon. Another 18 percent of
respondents said they would curtail their flying if avgas was to reach
$6
per gallon. A minority, 5 percent, said it would keep flying even if
avgas
prices hit $10 per gallon. As for the future of avgas, the terms
"bleak,"
"not good," and "dismal" were often used, kindling new interest in auto
gas
supplemental type certificates and calls for alternative fuels.
"Airplane
for sale!!!" blared one member. "I'm still waiting for the jet
replacement
engine, but jet fuel is insanely expensive as well," said another.
Note: AOPA, the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, is the largest
pilot organization in the country with over 600,000 members in the US.
AOPA
Pilot is its monthly magazine.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:00 AM 12/10/2005, Rodney wrote:
Actually the Li-ion pack has a 3C max discharge/charge rate, while the
Trojans I am not sure about (but im sure someone here knows..)
Have you verified that the LiIons can actually ACCEPT a high charge rate?
The ThunderSky cells I've tested will only take a hi-rate charge for
a very few minutes, something like 10% of capacity.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich "Madman" Rudman woke me last night or should I say this morning at 2 AM
to inform me that they had completed the build on time. I will let him tell
the rest of the story. He flies home tonight so I am sure by Sunday you will
hear his story.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello:
My first year as an EVer is about to end, time for some thoughts. The
important things first: Thanks for all the ideas, discussions and the
occasional 'flame' here in the list. It has given me some new directions,
ideas and helped me to avoid costly mistakes. I agree with some of your
philosophies, I strongly disagree with others. Now - that doesn't matter
as it is the diversity that makes everything so interesting.
And while I love my eTruck (its name is 'Safti' - German for 'Juicy') and
accept its limitations, I am somewhat disappointed about the commercial
or, better, organized EV environment. While rebuilding my truck, I found
several well-known businesses that charge your credit card the moment you
order but deliver a very simple product only after three emails and four
weeks, don't even bother to apologize or even answer the phone. The EAA
gladly took my money, haven't heard or seen anything from them since then.
And no, I didn't receive a ballot. I rather donate my money directly to
those chapters that actively work for a common good.
In general I think that we would be able to achieve more by working
together more closely, pool our resources and our buying power. And this
is where the open source idea makes sense. As a computer and software
engineer with 15+ years R&D experience, I am deeply committed to Open
Source and its philosophy. One literal example could be the common
development of a 'smart box' aka computer, that monitors current, voltage
and translates it into digital and/or analog signals to be displayed on
different 'common' dashboard instruments. In addition, that unit could
have signal outputs to command a current-dependent cruise control (i.e.
stay at 130A), replace e-meters etc. Heck, it could even play mp3's ;)
What about a common website where people could post working solutions for
regular problems? I.e. I modified a 15$ WalMart a/c and heater
programmable thermostat, took the temp-sensor out and soldered it to a 3ft
cable, glued the sensor into one of my battery boxes and use the
thermostat to regulate my battery heaters. I now have my batteries at 72
degrees whenever I need the truck, though during the nights and on
weekends, I programmed a lower temperature (65 degrees) to save energy ;)
On the very same website we could communicate to pool our buying power.
Whoever needs something would open a thread and fellow EVers would be able
to jump on an order to multiply quantities.
What about creating an EVers beginning FAQ? Or something like an EV
education site for the general public? True, one could do that
individually (and it has been done) but an individual website will not
catch the attention like a website that we would all support and that
would be linked to on all of our individual websites. We could have
regular meetings on IRC and 'talk' with fellow EV'ers and newbies.
We should find common definitions so that we are able to compare our
vehicles. Let me give you an example: How does one define the range of an
EV? Why don't we define something like ARC (average range per charge) as
the distance a vehicle is able to travel on a flat surface at a given
speed (i.e. 50mph) and given temperature (i.e. 70 degrees) until the
batteries have reached 50% DOD? Just an example. We could (and should)
define a set of rules for an EV 'safety' guide and seal. Those regulations
should not only define electrical issues but i.e. number of seconds until
usable vaccuum is available, brake distances, lights, horn etc.
A vehicle offered for sale would state "EV Safety Guide OK", 20 Miles ARC
Well - that rounds it up for the time being. As usual, don't get to upset
with my ideas, just my two cents.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
