EV Digest 4990
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?Sorta?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?Sorta?
by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) FW: Battery Beach Burnout *Schedule Update*
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Sell me some battery heaters
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) UPDATED pictures on senior ALFA (EV)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) UPDATED pictures on senior ALFA (EV)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: MG Update
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Smart Chargers, was - Re: Am I Killing Batteries?(+)
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: links on evproduction.org wiki
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: AC prop reductive charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Setting up a Direct Drive
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: MG Update
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Setting up a Direct Drive
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 26700 Li-ion cell, was Re: MG Update
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?
by "Dave & Deb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: direct drive setup
by "karmann_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: links on evproduction.org wiki
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: links on evproduction.org wiki
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ken;
I have often asked the 78 RPM List about that, myself. Not much
response. There ARE stuff on old EV's like trolleys and Subways, comic songs
from the Titanic and earlier era, though.Like Subway Glide" Trolley Car
Swing" 1904 and 1912, respectively. Listening to records THAT old is
definately an aquired taste!<g>!As an avid collecter of RR stuff from that
era, there are a buncha songs related to trains, as there were a hell of a
lot of them 100 years ago."Where do you worka John? On the Delaware
Lacawann" from the twenties<g>!
Seeya at 78 rpm
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:02 AM
Subject: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?
> I'm putting together a mix tape for EV travel. I am trying to think of
> cool songs that might have EV, Electric or Eco overtones or themes. I
> haven't had too much luck coming up with a list so far, so I thought I'd
> ask for ideas.
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM/YM - ktrough
> FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken,
I forwarded this on to a friend who has been the the "DJ" business for 30
years. I will post his comments when I get them.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Rice<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?Sorta?
Hi Ken;
I have often asked the 78 RPM List about that, myself. Not much
response. There ARE stuff on old EV's like trolleys and Subways, comic songs
from the Titanic and earlier era, though.Like Subway Glide" Trolley Car
Swing" 1904 and 1912, respectively. Listening to records THAT old is
definately an aquired taste!<g>!As an avid collecter of RR stuff from that
era, there are a buncha songs related to trains, as there were a hell of a
lot of them 100 years ago."Where do you worka John? On the Delaware
Lacawann" from the twenties<g>!
Seeya at 78 rpm
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:02 AM
Subject: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?
> I'm putting together a mix tape for EV travel. I am trying to think of
> cool songs that might have EV, Electric or Eco overtones or themes. I
> haven't had too much luck coming up with a list so far, so I thought I'd
> ask for ideas.
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com<http://visforvoltage.com/>
> AIM/YM - ktrough
> FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, you could turn down the Zilla. But first, how much air did you have in
those tires?
Stay Charged!
Hump
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Otmar
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 5:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
At 5:10 PM -0500 12/12/05, Matthew D. Graham wrote:
>Hey Brian,
>
>. . . And 3) none of the limits are hit.
>
>I think you're exactly right about the wheel spin. That's what I
>figured, and it fits with the behavior of the car in that first second of
the run.
>The tires bit pretty well at first, but then let loose just a few feet
>into the track -- around 0.3 seconds into the run. The current dropped
>to nothing during the shift for another three or four tenths of a
>second, allowing the tires to hold onto the ground again, then hold
>tight for the rest of the run in parallel mode. I can't wait to put in
>the Viscous LSD from the 300ZX and get some drag radials on the wheels.
Great going Matt,
You make us proud!
As for the wheel spin, I know you don't want to hear this, but there is a
very simple fix. Just turn the current down a bit in series mode, or start
in a taller gear (if you have one).
If you have a peak holding meter then you can do a launch and read the max
motor current. That should happen at max traction. Then just set the motor
amps at about 50 amps less than that and you'll have a great launch.
Have fun!
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Attention Race Fans:
Here's an update on Battery Beach Burnout from Shawn Waggoner. For some
reason, his posts to the EVDL don't go through for a day or two, then all of
them show up at one time. I'm certain that after I post this, you'll see two
more posts from him with the same information.
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
Hobe Sound, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Shawn Waggoner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 10:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery Beach Burnout *Schedule Update*
Hello Everyone,
Well at long last, the schedule for the Battery Beach Burnout is locked in
and up to date on the website. We have been working with the track
management at Moroso and they have been an absolute pleasure to work with.
They have been amazingly supportive of the event and are looking forward to
what these electric cars can do! A big 'thanks' to Moroso for all the
support.
I know Matt Graham shared the story from this past weekend out at the track
and the feedback we got, but wait till they get invaded by all of the EVs!
Matt has updated the competitors page with the folks that have registered
so far. If you haven't let us know you are going be here, please drop us a
line and let us know: race (at) batterybeach.com
As for the schedule, due to trying accommodate all of the events that we
plan to hold, we have had to move the drag race to Friday night (January
20th) instead of Saturday night. Saturday will be the Show and Shine,
Autocross and first ever Scooter-cross!
The following is the schedule of events for the Battery Beach Burnout:
All competitions will be held at Moroso Motorsports Park
(www.morosomotorsportspark.com) on January 20th and 21st, 2006. Moroso is
both an NHRA and SCCA certified track.
There will be a 70kW Generator on site, both days, for all of your charging
needs.
Friday January 20th, 2006 -- Drag Race
The drag race will be held Friday evening. The gates open at 6PM and we will
be able to race to 1AM. The track is holding its Midnight Madness that night
and, we will have the opportunity to run against gas cars as well! (Please
keep in mind that this is an NHRA track and all vehicles will be required to
pass tech inspection prior to being allowed to race. Sorry, but no scooters
or e-bikes will allowed on the track. Please contact us if you have any
questions.)
Saturday January 21st, 2006 -- Autocross, Show & Shine and other fun
The second day of the event will be Saturday afternoon and evening. From 12
to 4PM we will hold the Show and Shine where all the EV's will be on display
for the public to view and ask questions. Touch up that paint and clean up
those wires! Following the Show and Shine the Autocross will start at
5:00PM. There will be a course setup with 2 - 180 degree turns, a straight
away and S curves. To add to the excitement, and not to forget about the 2
wheel folks, we will be holding the first ever Scooter-cross on the same
track! This will be open to all 2 wheel motorcycles and scooters.
The awards ceremony will be held after the races on Saturday night.
Awards
The following Trophies and Certificates will be given away at the Battery
Beach Burnout:
Drag Race:
High Voltage Car (over 156 VDC Nominal): 1st, 2nd and 3rd place Low Voltage
Car (under 156 VDC Nominal): 1st, 2nd and 3rd place High School Team (Any
Voltage): 1st, 2nd and 3rd place Motorcycle (Any Voltage): 1st, 2nd and 3rd
place
Autocross:
1st, 2nd and 3rd place
Show and Shine
Best Paint
Best Engineered Vehicle
Public's Choice (viewers get to vote for their favorite!): 1st and 2nd Show
Choice (Participant's vote for their choice):1st and 2nd
Scooter-cross (Certificates)
1st, 2nd and 3rd place
There will also be cash prizes given out! We will also have several items
available during the raffle drawings on both days.
That's it for now; hope to see everyone down here (with their shorts...) in
January for the race!
Shawn M. Waggoner
Battery Beach Burnout Organizer
NEDRA Southeast Coordinator
www.batterybeach.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"It's Electric" by Metallica
The Stonecutters Song on the Simpsons
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Gutenberg a star?
We do! We do!
"Gross Polluters in the Sky" by David Dymaxion
(Words below, you'd have to get a Karaoke version of "Ghost Riders in
the Sky" and sing in the words and record it, or play guitar to it.
P.S. If any of the musicians on the list record a version, I'd love
to have an MP3 of it.)
An old car went driving out one dark and smoggy day
At a light it rested as the tailpipe smoked away
When all at once a traffic jam of smoking cars he saw
A-reddening the smokey sky and making people cough
yippee-ai-yay yippee-ai-yo
Gross polluters in the sky
Their motors ran on fire and their bodies of heavy steel
Horns were a-honking and their hot exhaust he could feel
A bolt of fear went through him as they thundered through the sky
For the smokey cloud was coming hard as he heard their asthmatic
cry
yippee-ai-yay yippee-ai-yo
Gross polluters in the sky
Their faces gaunt their eyes were blurred they could hardly draw
a breath
They're driving hard to reach clear air but they can't find any
yet
'Cause they got to drive forever in that smog infested sky
In cars snorting smoke and fire, as they ride on hear their cry
yippee-ai-yay yippee-ai-yo
Gross polluters in the sky
As the drivers roared on by him one called out his name
If you want to save your planet from hell a-breathing smoggy
shame
Then gas-boy change your ways today or else you will drive
A-searching the whole planet for nonexistent clear sky
yippee-ai-yay yippee-ai-yo
Gross polluters in the sky
Gross Polluters in the Sky
--- Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm putting together a mix tape for EV travel. I am trying to think
> of
> cool songs that might have EV, Electric or Eco overtones or themes.
> I
> haven't had too much luck coming up with a list so far, so I
> thought I'd
> ask for ideas.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roy, please share with us what you learn about the heaters. Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roy LeMeur
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 4:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Sell me some battery heaters
Hi Folks
I am doing some comparison shopping for flat battery heaters, I know there
are quite a few different ones.
Reliability is more important than low cost.
Looking for a reliable product and supplier.
Please contact me off-list.
roylemeur at hotmail dot com
Thanks!
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's a great question, Tim. As a matter of fact, I didn't lower the
pressure until the last run. On that one, I had 25 PSI in the rear tires.
Funny -- that's the run I had a great launch with! I'm thinking the burnout
didn't hurt, either.
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
Hobe Sound, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Humphrey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 10:55 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
Yeah, you could turn down the Zilla. But first, how much air did you have in
those tires?
Stay Charged!
Hump
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry here is the site link. http://www.electricsmart.com/index.htm
Well, the winter hit the US early so Senior ALFA is getting a de-rusting and
new flatbed. I have updated the website with some preliminary pictures I
thought many might like to see. The battery rails in this truck are just too
cool making it a great EV. I will be changing the Lenze gear reducer out for
a syncro-transmission since 45mph is the maximum speed this little truck
will go. I'm looking for proven suggestions on the transmission department.
Since this is a truck I'd like to know about any late model truck
transmission that has (a) cable clutch setup (b)electronic shift solenoid
(c)adapter plates already in use out in the EV world
Has ANYONE used the cvt transmission out of the new mini? This looks ideal
for my smart car and would make the little woman more likely to use the car.
My first direct drive setup was simply WAY to much from a standing start and
I'm pretty limited in battery space. Right now I have 72 vts in 12 vt
optimas in the location where the gas tank was located. I'd like to have
higher voltage but money is the limiting factor here.
UPGRADES
My wife won't step foot in Senior ALFA until I 1) Change the steering wheel
from RHD to LHD, 2) Put in some more comfortable seats (simple bench seat
now) 3) Add three point seatbelts (simple lap belts currently) 4) ADD A
HEATER!
I've watched the heater discussions and have now disassembled two ceramic
1500 watt heaters. It looks simple enough so I will be machining some
retainer plates for my truck. There is NO heater box on this guy but a very
nice open grill area that "vents" the cabin. Pretty much just a couple of
fancy open holes (http://www.electricsmart.com/ALFA/ALFA_IMG/front_lg.jpg)
I'll strip some box out of the wrecking yard and will modify for this use.
Possibly I'll be able to add air conditioning if I can find the right donor.
Any suggestions on transmissions please reply to the list.
Pedroman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, the winter hit the US early so Senior ALFA is getting a de-rusting and
new flatbed. I have updated the website with some preliminary pictures I
thought many might like to see. The battery rails in this truck are just too
cool making it a great EV. I will be changing the Lenze gear reducer out for
a syncro-transmission since 45mph is the maximum speed this little truck
will go. I'm looking for proven suggestions on the transmission department.
Since this is a truck I'd like to know about any late model truck
transmission that has (a) cable clutch setup (b)electronic shift solenoid
(c)adapter plates already in use out in the EV world
Has ANYONE used the cvt transmission out of the new mini? This looks ideal
for my smart car and would make the little woman more likely to use the car.
My first direct drive setup was simply WAY to much from a standing start and
I'm pretty limited in battery space. Right now I have 72 vts in 12 vt
optimas in the location where the gas tank was located. I'd like to have
higher voltage but money is the limiting factor here.
UPGRADES
My wife won't step foot in Senior ALFA until I 1) Change the steering wheel
from RHD to LHD, 2) Put in some more comfortable seats (simple bench seat
now) 3) Add three point seatbelts (simple lap belts currently) 4) ADD A
HEATER!
I've watched the heater discussions and have now disassembled two ceramic
1500 watt heaters. It looks simple enough so I will be machining some
retainer plates for my truck. There is NO heater box on this guy but a very
nice open grill area that "vents" the cabin. Pretty much just a couple of
fancy open holes (http://www.electricsmart.com/ALFA/ALFA_IMG/front_lg.jpg)
I'll strip some box out of the wrecking yard and will modify for this use.
Possibly I'll be able to add air conditioning if I can find the right donor.
Any suggestions on transmissions please reply to the list.
Pedroman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am working on it.
I doubt I can make them work with my chargers... But there is hope....
Propritary design and product, and they are pretty proud of it.
Possible NDA and other non competes are needed.
If they really want to get into the EV world... I will need a LOT of closely
held data.
We will see, bit I doubt it do much good.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: MG Update
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > What We need is to have the heavy case removed and have the guts
> > that weigh less than half the 2.2 pounds that the whole thing is,
>
> Maybe you could get Milwaukee to sell the inside parts of the battery
> factory direct as "replacement parts"... or just make them available.
>
> Can you make your Rudman Regulators be a BMS for these batteries? Or
> is there a BMS already built into the battery pack and could that
> somehow interface with your PFC chargers?
>
> Why can't John Zick get you all the info you need on those batteries, etc?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What is your fully charged s.g. these days?
Cheers,
Roger.
Haven't gotten that refractometer yet, but using my hydrometer I'm showing
around 1.26 anyways. Again this is the floating bob type, not the floating dial
type so I doubt it's accuracy is all that great. Where I'm charging right now
if I charge any harder I get rotten egg smell.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> What we need (IMHO) is some organisation. I sincerely hoped that somebody
> from EAA would have come forward after my last (long) posting. But
> unfortunately, that didn't happen. Without some form of organisation, I am
> afraid that even the best intentions will ultimately fall short.
No, you probably don't understand how "open source" works so let me explain.
Linux was created by one kid still getting his degree at a Finnish
university back in 1991 who was having a lot of fun playing around
with his own operating system kernel. It started as simply a terminal
emulator, for dialing into the university systems with a modem; and
then he started adding some file I/O functions, and so on, and pretty
soon it was competitive with Minix (the smallest PC Unix that was
available then, also free). At that point, only after it was somewhat
useful, he announced it, sheepishly, on a Usenet newsgroup. Others
began playing with it, and began to send him new code to add to his
kernel. A snowball effect started happening. A year or two later, he
was spending most of his time painstakingly weaving together the
threads of code that were being sent to him, as well as continuing to
fix things himself.
Only in the late 90's, after several years of being completely
overwhelmed with the amount of work that this constant merging of
patches entails, did he begin to delegate this work to some other
really bright guys. And to this day there is no formal organization;
Linus knows whom he can trust to do just as good work as he can do
himself, just from years of experience working with them. There are
no bosses above them. Companies like Red Hat are just making money
off of what was already done; they are most certainly not the center
of development. In fact, having "management" is diametrically opposed
to this very idea of a grassroots movement of ordinary people doing
something amazing! It would quite simply kill the project.
It is a fundamental axiom of the hacker ethic that centralization is
bad. The Internet is cool precisely because anybody can put up a web
server, anybody can post to Usenet, anybody can edit the content on
the wiki, and so on. Capitalism and democracy are cool precisely
because everyone tries to maximize his own results, and nothing
prevents each person from getting a maximum reward for this behavior
if he plays his cards right. The government's only real purpose is to
make sure that nobody's rights are being violated by someone else, to
make sure that the playing field is kept level; but the government was
not intended to micro-manage what people are doing on that field, and
it has been a bad thing for us on the occasions when it has tried to
do that.
It's kindof like asking those who participated in Monster Garage if
having a big organization backing them up was useful. Big bucks were
spent but it would have been even better if they came without strings
attached, right? Or ask the guys that worked at Ximian whether the
tens of millions that were spent on Gnome develoment at that company
did a lot of good. A lot of business people will also tell you that
too much venture capital, applied too early, can kill a startup;
because the company can then afford to be sloppy, throw money around
and focus on other things besides the hard work that is at the core of
what they are doing, that will really have some value in the
marketplace. And VC money also tends to come with too much
authoritarian control, which kills creativity.
So in short, please do not bring the big bureaucratic organizations
down upon our backs. We will do much better without them, at least
for the "open source EV" project.
It's cool to have TV shows reporting on the back-yard conversions that
have already been done, and have turned out really well; but those are
finished projects, so at least doing the TV show doesn't interfere
with the project. But we do not need to invite all those Joe 6-packs
in the audience to participate in our new projects. If they have not
found it on their own, they are not motivated enough to contribute
anything anyway. We need people who do stuff, not just get in the
way.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> you can charge an arbitrarily low pack voltage. But the semiconductors
>> in the controller need to withstand the peak voltage of the rectified
>> AC line. [sample circuit snipped]
Otmar wrote:
> AC propulsion uses a boost converter, not the buck converter that
> you've drawn.
Of course. Their pack voltage is *higher* than the peak of the AC line.
> The trouble with the buck converter system is that it is not
> possible to provide very good power factor correction.
Is this a requirement? Most chargers are not power factor corrected, and users
seem content.
If you also want PFC, then a plain buck converter isn't the best topology.
You could use a boost converter to drive a buck converter; the boost
converter provides PFC, and buck converter knocks its output down to your
actual pack voltage. Another possibility is the single-stage buck-boost
converter. But normal controllers don't use these topologies; I was
describing a method that uses the *existing* controller as a charger.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rodney A wrote:
> As far as I know, most two motor direct drive systems physcially connect
> the motors together (belt or chain, etc) and then connect to the driveshaft
> or reduction gearbox.
>
> What about running two motors on the rear axle, one attached to each wheel
> (via a lightweight reduction gearbox) thus eliminating the differential
> (which would make up for the extra weight of the additional reduction
> gearbox)? The advantage of this setup might be a little more torque and
> power (less mechanical losses) plus with the motors in parallel (which they
> would be most of the time) you get an electronic traction control.
The Tango does this. Two motors, each with its own 5:1 gear reducer, drive the
rear wheels independently. There is no diferential. A single controller
operates both motors. The motors can be switched in series or parallel to
provide an electric 2-speed "transmission".
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: MG Update
>
> >The Farce on the pack is that we have to break it down just to charge it.
> >Yup We can do that, takes two sharp Ampheads, and about 2 hours, just to
> >charge them and about the same to do the physical
> >teardown and rebuild.
>
> This is nuts! I have to say, I am not looking forward to the calls and
> emails from civilians who see the show and want one "just like that", and
> then I have to introduce reality.
>
> Some questions:
>
> 1. I understand the finale is supposed to be a "challenge" race in
Florida
> in January. Do you guys who built the car get to go to Florida for that?
somebody will, but it's most likley not going to be in Florida.. most likley
So Cal.
>
> 2. Will anybody who actually knows anything about EVs have the
opportunity
> to go any shakedown driving before the race?
They Better or there will be a large copper fire!!!
Single 0/4 won't live long at 3600 amps.
And other conductor shortages that only I know about....
Hey we ran out of time to bullit proof it....
>
> 3. Who will be driving? If it's Jesse, you know the car will win. A
> friend of ours drove the "other" car for another MG episode's race, and he
> told us the fix was definitely in.
>
> 4. What happens to the car after the race?
>
dunno... or more like I do know but Can't tell.
Won't tell is more like it ...
> Shari Prange
>
> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
> http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
>
Madman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep, it's Don's motor that I saw pictures of, on the dyno and after
painting with the yoke fit on the shaft. Beautiful. There were some small
design changes between his and mine so it's possible I'm not seeing
exactly what mine will look like, but I have a hunch that it's minor
cosmetic stuff. His is the last of the "experimental" Warp13s, before the
finalization of the production design. (Exactly what that means may be a
little blurry, I really hope they continue to tweak and improve the design
as they get feedback from customers.)
Your question is a good one; I think of it in more general terms. Which do
you hit first, redline or unacceptably low torque, for a given pack
voltage and a controller capable of a given maximum current? I figure this
is affected by:
- voltage limit to prevent destructive arcing
- how much your batteries sag at a given current, and
- brush advance
but I'm thinking the biggest factor is how the motor is wound.
Seems to me that a motor could be wound to a particular voltage such that
the two events basically coincide -- you reach redline just shortly after
you go out of current limit. I'm not so good at the math, so I'm not sure
how this would actually affect the performance of the motor, torque per
amp, etc.
For choosing a ratio though, that may be relatively easy if he doesn't
plan on racing. For a given wheel diameter and a given redline (I've been
using 5000 but George recently suggested 5500 for an unmodified Warp13),
pick a ratio that puts you at redline just above the maximum speed you are
aiming for. Again this depends on whether you'll have enough torque up
close to redline, but for highway driving I think that's a pretty safe bet
at the voltage he's running.
--chris
On Tue, December 13, 2005 7:02 am, STEVE CLUNN said:
> Hi Chris , I sold a Warp 13 to Don hear in florida and he is reasling with
> the same problem , what ratio to run . One thing I was thinking about , is
> how a dc motor falls asleep ( back emf cuts back the current ) at its top
> rpm , How many amps will a 13 pull at 5000 rpm with 200v ( battery sag ) .
> ?
> Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken, I have always contended that the song by Steppenwolf, "Born to be Wild"
is in fact a song about electric power. If you listen to the words carefully
you will note that they don't say, "get your engine running" but rather,
"get your motor running". All Ampheads who race understand the terms "I like
smoke and lightning". Of course "heavy metal thunder" refers to the weight
of all the batteries we carry ;-)
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:02 AM
Subject: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?
I'm putting together a mix tape for EV travel. I am trying to think of
cool songs that might have EV, Electric or Eco overtones or themes. I
haven't had too much luck coming up with a list so far, so I thought I'd
ask for ideas.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date:
12/13/2005
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date: 12/13/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All the ones I have, say made in CANADA.
Boy I sure hope they keep them in N. America.
Also it looks like it's Molicell, this could be a different sight.
Good stuff.
To say the Battery pack itself is intellegent is a insult...It's well done.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Letton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 2:21 PM
Subject: 26700 Li-ion cell, was Re: MG Update
> The 26700 Li-ion battery used in the Milwaukee V28 tools is made by:
>
> http://www.molienergy.com/index.htm
>
> Their home page shows one of the cells, but there doesn't appear to be
> any other info on the battery on their site. As I understand it, they
> have a somewhat exclusive agreement with Milwaukee, or maybe it's just
> that they haven't ramped production capacity up enough to sell them to
> anyone else. I've heard that they are tooling up to build these cells
> in their Taiwanese factory, which is evidenced by the fact that their
> 26700 cell appears on the Taiwan site:
>
> http://www.e-one.com.tw/
> Press release with some tech spec's:
> http://www.e-one.com.tw/News_2005_e.htm
> Article from their site: http://www.e-one.com.tw/Moli Energy (VanSun).pdf
>
> A Swedish company that also appears to be making a 26700 variant is:
>
> http://www.abatel.com/pdf/AbatelNews_En_050708d.pdf
>
> ...but I don't have any more information on them.
>
> HTH,
>
> Andrew (who is working on development of a medical device that uses the
> Moli 26700 cell...)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
> >Rich Rudman wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>What We need is to have the heavy case removed and have the guts
> >>that weigh less than half the 2.2 pounds that the whole thing is,
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Maybe you could get Milwaukee to sell the inside parts of the battery
> >factory direct as "replacement parts"... or just make them available.
> >
> >Can you make your Rudman Regulators be a BMS for these batteries? Or
> >is there a BMS already built into the battery pack and could that
> >somehow interface with your PFC chargers?
> >
> >Why can't John Zick get you all the info you need on those batteries,
etc?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i can't think of any song titles right off by look for songs by a group called
Midnight Oil, aussies I think, and Bruce Cockburn has a lot of eco/pol songs
that
one with the line "..IMF dirty MF..." comes to mind
Dave
> Ken, I have always contended that the song by Steppenwolf, "Born to be Wild"
> is in fact a song about electric power. If you listen to the words carefully
> you will note that they don't say, "get your engine running" but rather,
> "get your motor running". All Ampheads who race understand the terms "I like
> smoke and lightning". Of course "heavy metal thunder" refers to the weight
> of all the batteries we carry ;-)
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:02 AM
> Subject: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?
>
>
>> I'm putting together a mix tape for EV travel. I am trying to think of
>> cool songs that might have EV, Electric or Eco overtones or themes. I
>> haven't had too much luck coming up with a list so far, so I thought I'd
>> ask for ideas.
>>
>> -Ken Trough
>> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
>> http://visforvoltage.com
>> AIM/YM - ktrough
>> FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date:
>> 12/13/2005
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date: 12/13/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I looked at direct drive using reduction gears at the wheel for the
Karmann Eclectric, but found that the early VW Bus reduction boxes just
wouldn't give enough leverage, with gear options of only 1.26:1 or
1.38:1. Hmm, maybe if I ran some go-cart wheels... Some sandrails
and Baja Bugs get around this problem with a chain drive and IRS
suspension instead of reduction boxes on a swingaxle.
Cheers,
Jay Donnaway
www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela Merz wrote:
Happy Holidays ;)
I am amazed about the activity in regard to the creation of a EV webside.
On the other hand, it's more like throwing a rock into an ants nest.
(Almost) everybody is willing to do something, let's try this, found a
great software there ..
What we need (IMHO) is some organisation. I sincerely hoped that somebody
from EAA would have come forward after my last (long) posting. But
unfortunately, that didn't happen. Without some form of organisation, I am
afraid that even the best intentions will ultimately fall short.
If we want to be able to reach a broader spectrum of people, it not a
matter of what technology we use, it much more a matter of how to display
it, public relations and/or marketing. And its also a matter of liability
and, yes, cost. It might be nice to use some free server - but that is
hardly a valid professional long term strategy.
I therefore propose that we syncronize the ongoing web/wiki project with
EAA or another entity, or we form a new association to oversee this and
other projects.
Disclaimer: Just my humple opinion.
Michaela
I wholeheartedly agree. I'm just trying to get *something* usable up, as
it seems that it is the only way to get people "riled-up" and organized.
SeattleEVA is the entity that seems likely to help pull this thing into
a more professional level, eventually. It does kind of make sense, there
appears to be a very high concentration of conversions/retailers here in
the Puget Sound, as well as no shortage of available tech resources. My
goal is to "bootstrap" this thing into existence, then hopefully the
community will care enough to mature it into a viable grassroots public
relations tool. People have this weird tendency to jump on a bandwagon
*after* it already exists. Chicken & Egg, ya know ;)
And it is somewhat a matter of what technology we use. Public relations
is the most important general EV aspect I agree. But since this is the
"communal creative" service, it MUST be easy to use/navigate/access or
no amount of fancy artwork and marketing will be helpful, ever. Getting
people interested, and getting people involved are two very different
things. The MG show, NEDRA, press interviews, and general exposure will
draw others to "check it out". But beyond a passing fancy, or other
gee-wiz-how-cool-is-that first reactions, we must get whomever we can to
*make stuff*. I would say this is definitely not an "EV website"
designed to educate the general public, that would be much better served
by the EAA or your local EVA. I would call it a "Make your own EV"
website. It's like comparing "Car & Driver" with "Car Craft Magazine".
Or cnet.com and sourceforge.net. Each has a specific goal and though
they serve an overlapping audience, they have very different purposes.
One is to get people interested/educated, the other is to get people
involved in the creation process.
I see a definite need for a two pronged approach. I would hate to see
commercial EVs take off and custom EVs wither away. I want both, darnit :P
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about "Electric Avenue" by Eddy Grant?
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave & Deb
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 11:21 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?
i can't think of any song titles right off by look for songs by a group
called
Midnight Oil, aussies I think, and Bruce Cockburn has a lot of eco/pol songs
that
one with the line "..IMF dirty MF..." comes to mind
Dave
> Ken, I have always contended that the song by Steppenwolf, "Born to be
Wild"
> is in fact a song about electric power. If you listen to the words
carefully
> you will note that they don't say, "get your engine running" but rather,
> "get your motor running". All Ampheads who race understand the terms "I
like
> smoke and lightning". Of course "heavy metal thunder" refers to the weight
> of all the batteries we carry ;-)
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:02 AM
> Subject: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?
>
>
>> I'm putting together a mix tape for EV travel. I am trying to think of
>> cool songs that might have EV, Electric or Eco overtones or themes. I
>> haven't had too much luck coming up with a list so far, so I thought I'd
>> ask for ideas.
>>
>> -Ken Trough
>> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
>> http://visforvoltage.com
>> AIM/YM - ktrough
>> FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date:
>> 12/13/2005
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/199 - Release Date:
12/13/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shawn Rutledge wrote:
Only in the late 90's, after several years of being completely
overwhelmed with the amount of work that this constant merging of
patches entails, did he begin to delegate this work to some other
really bright guys. And to this day there is no formal organization;
Linus knows whom he can trust to do just as good work as he can do
himself, just from years of experience working with them. There are
no bosses above them. Companies like Red Hat are just making money
off of what was already done; they are most certainly not the center
of development. In fact, having "management" is diametrically opposed
to this very idea of a grassroots movement of ordinary people doing
something amazing! It would quite simply kill the project.
It is a fundamental axiom of the hacker ethic that centralization is
bad.
Oops... I am actually hoping for some organization. SourceForge is not
the result of "one man's lone dream". The members/projects (like Linux,
Apache) are of course unmanaged by the community, that would just be
plain silly. But the community resources they employ must be managed, or
it won't work. The community infrastructure needs organization, but not
the individuals of the community. I think you have your scope a little
mixed up.
There is the perfect middle ground between Anarchy and Bureaucracy. Look
at a typical small town (a *community* if there ever was one). The city
council (admins) looks after the shared public services like police,
fire, streets, etc. (forum, central directory, hosting, general server
software/health). Each resident can start a business in the town doing
whatever they want, however they want (as long as it's legal). But they
can't all be expected to build the street in front of their store
(server, bandwidth), or keep the crime rate down (hackers, spammers,
scams), or put out any fires (slashdotted, hard drive crash). Some
actually can, but most don't have the resources to do it all themselves.
Then again, I think what Michaela was referring to was another beast
entirely. This is why the "statement of purpose" or "project goal" is so
important right now. We don't want to duplicate or overlap too much with
other aspects of EV advocacy which are better served by other approaches.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
