EV Digest 4993
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Plama Boy's School of Charger Repair
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Setting up a Direct Drive
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) I know many of you will find this site helpful (Instructables:
step-by-step collaboration)
by Allan Alessio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: advice on batteries
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Setting up a Direct Drive
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Open source
by Osmo Sarin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV crashes Corvette Challenge party at Moroso!
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: pair of ev's on ebay...
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Stingray almost done
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) EV Batteries
by "Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Book about plug-in hybrids
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Cooling in cold climate
by Osmo Sarin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Cooling in cold climate
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) NEDRA Schedule
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: links on evproduction.org wiki
by Aaron NMLUG-EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Tour de Sol invite
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) More Tour de Sol info ...
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Cooling in cold climate
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Ferro Transformer 36V wanted
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: ICS-200 AVCON head
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Wild Charge Control Ideas
by Jay Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Motor control for direct drive setup
by Randall Prentice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Under the guise of retrieving my original tape of White Zombie's last drag run,
I made a recent visit to John Wayland's place. While talking over some design
decisions for the Karmann Eclectric, we got into holiday topics. The associated
commercialism and artificial niceties of this season have made Christmas one of
Mr. Wayland's least favorite seasons, but determined to gain his wife's good
graces, our hero enlisted my assistance in the hanging of gaily-colored lights
from his roofline. EVer-attentive to tidy wiring, John had permanently
positioned plastic clips long ago to ease this annual installation. Well, about
half of these succomed to the weather, snapping off in our chilled fingers.
Determined to prevent this recurrence, out came the self-tapping screws, and we
installed enough wiring clips to make Underwriter's Laboratories proud. The
lighting set was old, with large screw-in bulbs, and we had to make many
replacements, juggling the bulbs from socket to socket in !
order to keep the colors in line (red, yellow, green, blue, purple,
redyellowgreenbluepurple, red...), and creatively hiding a couple of dead
sockets. At long last, the house was festively festooned, and just in time to
tackle the loose charger before dinner.
We quickly opened up the case, and discovered that the sturdy copper inductor
posts would have to be desoldered in order to remove the circuit board and
access the problem point. Johnny-on-the-spot whipped out his gun and a clever
little slurpee that removes molten solder via vacuum. Once the inductor posts
were loose, we carefully pried the board free. The problem was easily rectified
by simply sliding the shims back into position and firmly clamping the
inductors, making sure to reset the locknuts. As we went to replace the board,
I innocently asked, "What are those tiny hairs of wire for?". It turns out that
we had overlooked the temperature sensor leads, and yanked four miniscule wires
right out of their little homes. Not a user-repairable item, we'll have to call
on the maker for more....
Now, there will be those who think it was unwise to bring my technical problems
to someone who's motto is "<em>We break things so you don't have to!".</em> But
heck, it was a great learning experience, and who knows, maybe an upgrade to
the old PFC 20 will be in the works, now that it's already opened up and
EVerything.........
To top off the evening, John's wife walks into the shop, as if on cue. She
starts straight into some family business, ignoring the eager anticipation on
her husband's face. Somewhat crestfallen, he asks- "Didn't you notice the
lights?" She doesn't miss a beat. "Yeah Dummy, that's the old set you were
supposed to throw out, where are the nice new ones that I got last year!"
Merry Christmas!
Jay Donnaway
www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
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--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, December 13, 2005 7:33 pm, Steve Arlint said:
> Hi There,
>
> This direct drive discusion has really caught my interest. Transmissions
> are expensive and need increasing maintenance with age. Eliminating this
> device in an EV would be outstanding. In the real world, with voltage and
> current limits on a series DC motor, direct drive does not seem to be
> vastly superior VS. a transmission. If you gear for low current
> consumption, you're motor will reach it's RPM limit before you reach a
> decent speed. If you gear the other way around, too much current is used
> for the speed that you want.
I'll be struggling with this myself, having a motor with a fairly low
redline. My eventual solution of using two different rear end gearsets for
street and strip isn't terribly practical, but it's lighter than a
transmission.
> One solution to this is the series/parallel switching. In essence a
> 2-speed transmission.
>
> To overcome this direct drive issue for just one motor, would it be
> possible to control a series DC motor in a differnt way? One thing comes
The Warp13 does this with a split field. One motor, six terminals, two
speeds. Time will tell how effective this turns out to be.
> to mind. A controller could be made to independantly control the armature
> and field coils. Not just field weakening, but completely controlling
> both to always be optimized for range. I am not sure on this though.
>
> My other question is would another DC type motor be better suited for
> direct drive? For instance, A Cumulative Compound DC motor. Good
> starting torque from the series winding, and lower current draws and
> smoother regenerative breaking when up to speed. These types of motors
> are more expensive though.
>
> Notice that I haven't mentioned AC motors. I am still awhile from that
> world. I am interested though.
I think the ultimate motor for using without a transmission is one with a
completely flat torque curve all the way out to an enormously high RPM
limit -- which does tend to point to AC.
For DC EV motors though, I think more attention should be paid to raising
the redline -- moveable brushes actuated by a high-speed stepper or
voicecoil via a standard digital interface with the controller,
interpoles, kevlar banding, steel commutators. All of this would be worth
the extra cost to get more power from less iron and copper, the latter of
which has climbed in price so much in recent years that "copper theft" is
becoming a common problem.
With engines, the Japanese have shown us that there are benefits to having
a tiny engine that revs to insane speeds. There *is* a replacement for
displacement; torque is only half the picture. I think the same could be
true of motors. If you could rev a Warp9 to 15,000 rpm and could apply
whatever necessary wizardry to prevent arcing the comm to death, you might
get as much power out of it as a monster motor like mine, and your entire
motor would still weigh about as much as my armature.
Of course if your car is RWD, having a driveshaft spinning at 15,000 rpm
sounds a little scary; you'd probably want some reduction on the motor
side as well as in the diff. :o)
--chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you would also have to think of a way to lubricate the auto
transmission while in electric only mode. It is not recommended to drive an
automatic car around without the pump running. There is no fluid moving
around in the transmission without it and it can burn up rather quickly.
Maybe a electromagnetic coupling that you can physically disconnect the
electric motor from the tranny when in electric mode.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 10:16 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: Setting up a Direct Drive
ooo, an idea after my heart.
Hear is an idea I have been working on. A hollow shaft motor. with
the shaft ID the same as my GM's auto tranny and the length the same as
the stock auto tranny. The end bell has holes for a typical GM final
drive from a 4t65E. The motor shaft is the funky stubby spline to drive
the sun gear off the final drive and the typical drive axles complete
with CV joints. Direct drive, complete with speedo input, stock diffy is
~$200 new and limited slip aftermarket units are avail.
One idea is to make a hybrid out of my95 grand am, this unit could be
installed in that little dead rear axle and the space between the rear
towers filled with batteries, this car needs a little rear weight bias
anyhow. I figure making a cube with a hole thru it to allow the axles to
go thru the location of the spring will also preload the springs and
conteract the squat caused by the batteries.
Of course, it needs to be BLDC,induction, or sepex if I want any regen. :-(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.instructables.com/
Instructables: step-by-step collaboration
Instructables is a venue for showing what you make and how others can make
it.
Making things is part of being human. Whether you make bikes, kites, food,
clothing, protocols for biology research, or hack consumer electronics, good
instructions are critical.
Instructables is a step-by-step collaboration system that helps you record and
share your projects with a mixture of images, text, ingredient lists, CAD
files, and more. We hope to make documentation simple and fast. Show your
colleagues how to operate a machine, show your friends how to build a kayak,
show the world how to make cool stuff.
This is new! The interface is still in development. Be nice to us and give us
good feed-back.
Jobs: We are currently seeking an experienced lead software architect and
developer
www.instructables.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The band AC/DC had some lyrics about electricity. It has been so long since
I listened to them, I can't remember which of the particular songs would
apply to your project.
I found a reference to their album "High Voltage" at
http://www.bestprices.com/cgi-bin/vlink/696998020122BT.html?id=NnQ24FPr
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:02 AM
Subject: Ultimate EV mix tape suggestions?
> I'm putting together a mix tape for EV travel. I am trying to think of
> cool songs that might have EV, Electric or Eco overtones or themes. I
> haven't had too much luck coming up with a list so far, so I thought I'd
> ask for ideas.
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM/YM - ktrough
> FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The charge time is determine by the Pounds per Watts of flooded PbA
batteries relative to the charger (plus about 2 hours if you want them ~100
% full instead of ~80 full and are willing to wait for them).
Since the 20 each 6 volt batteries weigh ~33% more, they will take ~33%
longer to fill (80%) if they are empty.
If you drive the car the same distance on either battery pack, the watt
hours out of the pack will be similar, therefore the number of watt hours to
be replaced is the same, therefore the charge time will be the same assuming
the chargers are similar wattage.
The 20 each 6 volt batteries weigh !~33% more and store ~33% more energy and
will push the car ~33% further.
If you use the additional range, the charge time will be extended ~33%.
If you do not use the additional range, the charge time will be the same.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "David McWethy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: advice on batteries
> Thanks, David
>
> My battery box is set up for the 8 volts. I'm not sure if I want to add
the
> additional weight for 5 more batteries, although I suppose they could go
in
> front.
>
> Would the 15 8 V charge faster than 20 6 V? Where I am I don't need much
> range - all short trips, and I can charge in between. Does this argue
that
> 8V is acceptable?
>
> Dave
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some older GM and Ford trannies had a pump at the rear that was coupled to
the driveshaft. You could actually push start these cars. I think the last
year for the powerglide was '66, and the old Ford Cruise-o-Matic was '58
David C. Wilker Jr.
United States Air Force, Retired
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:49 PM
Subject: RE: Setting up a Direct Drive
I think you would also have to think of a way to lubricate the auto
transmission while in electric only mode. It is not recommended to drive
an
automatic car around without the pump running. There is no fluid moving
around in the transmission without it and it can burn up rather quickly.
Maybe a electromagnetic coupling that you can physically disconnect the
electric motor from the tranny when in electric mode.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 10:16 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: Setting up a Direct Drive
ooo, an idea after my heart.
Hear is an idea I have been working on. A hollow shaft motor. with
the shaft ID the same as my GM's auto tranny and the length the same as
the stock auto tranny. The end bell has holes for a typical GM final
drive from a 4t65E. The motor shaft is the funky stubby spline to drive
the sun gear off the final drive and the typical drive axles complete
with CV joints. Direct drive, complete with speedo input, stock diffy is
~$200 new and limited slip aftermarket units are avail.
One idea is to make a hybrid out of my95 grand am, this unit could be
installed in that little dead rear axle and the space between the rear
towers filled with batteries, this car needs a little rear weight bias
anyhow. I figure making a cube with a hole thru it to allow the axles to
go thru the location of the spring will also preload the springs and
conteract the squat caused by the batteries.
Of course, it needs to be BLDC,induction, or sepex if I want any regen.
:-(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Although not running an EV but a fuel cell project, this british fellow
has quite interesting thoughts about Open Source Car philosophy.
http://www.authenticbusiness.co.uk/archive/oscarproject/
Does anyone know more about him or his project? I didn´t find any
related website. I even wrote him, but the address mentioned at the end
of that article is not active anymore. The project seems to be alive
and doing well, but no mention about open source anymore:
http://www.boc.com/news/article_977_05dec05.asp
Osmo
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
Matt Graham kindly emailed me pictures of his car yesterday. I picked
my favorite and posted it to my website along with a quick blurb.
Cheers,
-Dave Stensland
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com
On Dec 11, 2005, at 5:30 PM, Matthew D. Graham wrote:
Hey everyone, [snip]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Arlint wrote:
Notice that I haven't mentioned AC motors. I am still awhile from that world.
I am interested though.
VR,
STEVEN ARLINT
University of Portland
Elecrtical Engineering Student
AC solution is the only one which is trivial to set up - you only need
to pick right components. Wide RPM range (10k or more) provides
zero to freeway speeds, no problem. You still need a single gear
reduction somewhere though.
Note, I'm not saying it is not doable for DC motors. It is just
far more difficult and stressful for them - too much current
on a tall gear, too much RPM on a low one. Narrow(er) band of
everything.
How many OEM EVs (US and European) use AC motors and how many use DC
one? What do you think Why?
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
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The batteries he has (under the tarp apparently) seem to be
regular UPS batteries, 75Ah with as replacement the UB12750
AGM battery which is the little brother of the UB121100 I am
installing in my S-10 former US Electricar (hacked with a
very special and very unique controller, so the different
battery set should only add to the fun)
http://www.power-sonic.com/ps-12750.pdf
Note that the Power-Sonic delivers nominal 47Ah in 1-hour
discharge so at 100A you will likely have little more than
20 min driving range, or about 20 miles...
That is why I chose the slightly larger UB121100 - spec'ed at
80A for 1h. Hope to get 50 miles range.
BTW - you could try a phone call to the fleet manager of the
City of Waltham, chances are he remembers the unique car and
has some background....
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jim Coate
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 1:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: pair of ev's on ebay...
The S-10 is practically in my back yard, but the seller hasn't responded
to repeated inquires from me. This is the second time listed... I'm not
sure if seller or the buyer is playing games.
It appears that the seller majorly hacked up the original battery
design. The cable to the battery pack that was under the body now goes
into the bed - I assume the "new" batteries are under the orange tarp in
the bed. I suspect it never ran much if at all with the replacement
batteries as the ccomputer will take a nutty if the batteries don't
behave exactly as expected. I don't know if he preserved the original
battery box and electronics.
If anyone makes contact with the seller, I'd love to talk to him as I
have one of these trucks and have the tools to rebuild the pack.
Lightning Ryan wrote:
> There's another RAV4-EV on ebay, $25K at the moment...
>
> And an E10, with a photo under the hood, anyone lookin
> for an EV1 powertrain, I recognize that inverter!?
> $10K buys it now, he sais... He has replacement batteries?
> Wonder how close of a match the motor and mounts are?
>
> http://search.ebay.com/electric-vehicle_W0QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ3
>
> L8r
> Ryan
>
>
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
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The Stingray will have an Anderson connector for emergency disconnect and
use as a key of sorts. This little buggy will be setup like a big
conversion. It has a builtin contactor. Will use a pot box same as most
conversions. 24vdc so it will be easy on the motor. If it goes 20 to 25mph
I'll be happy. LR.........
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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This may have already come up, but just wondering about people's thoughts re
AGM batteries or Trojan T105's.
It seems that while Trojans are cheaper and more powerful, AGM have a longer
cycle time and thus last longer? Is this what people have found in practise?
What about charging both batteries, which is better?
Thanks
Rod
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1. Prof. Andy Frank of UC Davis, who with his students has been building
plug-in hybrids for a long time (around 20 years, I think) and has built
more plug-in hybrids than anyone on the planet.
2. Greg Hanssen and Pete Nortman of EnergyCS, and their joint-venture
marketing partner Seth Seaberg of EDrive Systems, which is coming out with a
Prius plug-in hybrid aftermarket conversion kit in 2006 using Valence
lithium-ion batteries.
3. Ron Gremban and Felix Kramer of CalCars, a non-profit, "open-source",
ongoing project to develop a Prius plug-in hybrid (using EnergyCS electronic
control technology) with a succession of different battery packs, first with
lead-acid (done), currently with NiMH (in the process), and finally with
lithium-ion (in the future), to showcase and publicize the concept and
viability of plug-in hybrids.
4. Prof. Seal (retired) of Western Washington University may have also built
some plug-in hybrids, not sure.
5. Frank Gaffney, Assistant Secretary of Defense in the Reagan
administration, and James Woolsey, CIA Director in the Clinton
administration, who together have been the leading the charge and lobbying
hard in Washington for legislation supporting the commercialization of
plug-in hybrids.
Charles Whalen (definitely not part of that distinguished list, just an
admirer of all of them)
On Tuesday, December 13, 2005 2:14 PM, Sherry Boschert wrote:
I'm writing a book about plug-in hybrid cars (Plug-in
Hybrids: The Cars that Will Recharge America) to be
published in Fall of 2006 by New Society Publishers.
I am seeking the names (and contact info) of notable
people who might be willing to review the book and
have their endorsement printed on the back cover
(assuming they like it, of course). Who do you think
would be the most important people to solicit reviews
from, who would add value to the book if it included
their endorsements? These could be people in the auto
industry, politics, environmentalists, the
entertainment industry, or other sectors.
Important -- Please contact me OFF list (so we don't
bore everyone with endless emails) and include contact
information for the names you suggest, if you can!
Although I won't finish writing the book until April
1, 2006, the list of potential reviewers is being
compiled by Dec. 20, 2005. That's the way the
publishing cycle works. Any assistance you can provide
in picking the best people for endorsements would be
greatly appreciated.
Feel free to contact me if you have questions. Thanks
in advance,
Sherry Boschert
1484 16th Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94122-3510
(415) 681-7731
Plug-in Hybrids: The Cars that Will Recharge America
(Scheduled release: Fall, 2006, New Society
Publishers)
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We can have -30 C (-22 F) in winter here in Finland at best/worst. (Not
so often anymore, "thanks" to the greenhouse effect...) If the water
pump of my soon to become Siemens AC conversion is ON all the time, it
keeps the motor (and inverter) very cold, which isn´t a good thing for
the bearings at least.
On the other hand, a low temperature brings the resistance of electric
components down, right? So which one is more important, pros or cons?
Should I use a thermostat to measure the water temperature and to cut
on/off the pump? It would be off most of the year I think, saving the
pump and amps also.
Has anyone done this?
Thanks again,
Osmo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 12/14/05, Osmo Sarin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We can have -30 C (-22 F) in winter here in Finland at best/worst. (Not
> so often anymore, "thanks" to the greenhouse effect...) If the water
> pump of my soon to become Siemens AC conversion is ON all the time, it
> keeps the motor (and inverter) very cold, which isn´t a good thing for
> the bearings at least.
>
> On the other hand, a low temperature brings the resistance of electric
> components down, right? So which one is more important, pros or cons?
But electrolytic (and some other) capacitors don't like very low
temperatures either.
The cooling pumps on my Citroen run all the time as well, and it
over-cools the batteries in freezing weather, so I have taped off the
front grill. I don't want to stop the water flow as it helps to keep
the modules at the same temperature, although they are located in
different places.
I think that using a thermostatic switch might be tricky unless you
can sense the temperature inside the inverter and motor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there no Vegas EVent this year....??
Stay Charged!
Hump
Thanks to everyone for all your input! I look forward to seeing bigger, more
enthusiastic crowds at all the upcoming events. What a great year of races
we've got:
Battery Beach Burnout January 20-21 Moroso Motorsports Park Jupiter,
Florida
High Voltage Nationals May 13 Route 66 Raceway
Joliet, Illinois
Power of DC ?? Mason Dixon Dragway
Hagerstown, Maryland
NEDRA Nationals ?? Portland International Raceway Portland,
Oregon
See you there!
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
Hobe Sound, FL
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--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 11:37, Stefan T. Peters wrote:
> Michaela Merz wrote:
> > Happy Holidays ;)
> >
> > I am amazed about the activity in regard to the creation of a EV webside.
> > On the other hand, it's more like throwing a rock into an ants nest.
> > (Almost) everybody is willing to do something, let's try this, found a
> > great software there ..
> >
> > What we need (IMHO) is some organisation.
...
> I wholeheartedly agree. I'm just trying to get *something* usable up,
...
Are people unclear on Wikis?
Take a look at wikipedia.com.
Organization will evolve as more people contribute.
I definately see the Wiki as one of the greatest (and simplest)
WWW apps ever. I know of businesses who maintain all policies,
procedures, and customer histories, configuration notes, etc... on
Wikis. I plan to do this myself.
I think the best way to see the Wiki is as an extension
to this list. It is a place where we can archive and
organize the collective wisdom of this lists.
If only we had all of Lee Hart's posts and links
organized and referenced there ;-)
A dynamic FAQ that we can refer people to for
archives of "classic" posts.
It will happen, I'm sure!
--
Aaron Birenboim \ I have an inferiority complex,
Albuquerque, NM, USA \ but its not a very good one.
aaron at birenboim.com \
http://aaron.birenboim.com \
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--- Begin Message ---
2006 Tour de Sol
Driving Toward Zero Carbon Emissions
May 10-14, 2005
Saratoga Springs, NY
SAVE THE DATES!
We invite you to join us for the 18th annual Tour de Sol, the green car show
and competition driving toward zero emission vehicles.
We are returning to the beautiful Saratoga Spa State Park and Saratoga
Automobile Museum's Spring Auto Show for four action-packed days competitions,
over $10,000 in prize money, a green "car show" and much more!
One, two, and four-day options will be available. Following is a list of the
competitions:
- The Monte Carlo-style Rally & High-Mileage Challenge
for hybrid and advanced fuel vehicle owners
- Tour de Sol Championship
for one-of-a kind vehicles working toward zero climate change emissions
- Around-Town Vehicle Championship
for electric bikes, neighborhood vehicles and off-road vehicles
- Junior Solar Sprint & H2Help Competition
for model solar and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles
With gasoline prices soaring, oil wars in the Middle East, and greenhouse gases
25% higher than any time over the past 500,000 years, there is no better time
to demonstrate transportation options. Developing and using climate friendly,
secure and non-toxic energy to power our economy and our transportation system
and improve our health and quality of life is an achievable goal - and you can
be part of it all!
Now in its 18th year, the Tour de Sol will bring together hybrid vehicle
owners, students, manufacturers, energy suppliers, press, government
representatives, and consumers for competitions, information sharing, a green
car show and more.
January 1 - Registration begins - 2006 Rules Posted
January 30 - Early bird registration ends
March 6 - Registration, that includes listing in the on-site program ends
March 7 - Late registration begins
To find out more:
http://www.NESEA.org/transportation/tour/
The Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA)
http://www.NESEA.org/
--
Mike Bianchi
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>From the Tour de Sol web page
http://www.NESEA.org/transportation/tour/
18th Annual Tour de Sol:
May 10-14, 2006 in Saratoga Spa State Park, NY
Featuring New Events, Competitions and Activities
Leading the Way to a Sustainable Energy and Transportation Future
A Green "Car Show" and More
>From the drawing board...to the show room...to the customer's garage
this high-tech, high-touch "traveling festival" and competition is America's
longest running event of its kind. For 17 years, the Tour de Sol has brought
together students, manufacturers, energy suppliers, press, government
representatives, and consumers for a celebration and display of Yankee
ingenuity -- working toward sustainable energy and mobility for the world.
The centerpiece of the 2006 Tour de Sol will be our display at Saratoga's
Spring Auto Show on Saturday, May 13, organized by the Saratoga Auto Museum at
the Saratoga Spa State Park. Competition events will be held around that date
- so watch for updates!
The Tour de Sol is growing - and the 2006 Tour de Sol will bigger than ever!
* Last year, we unveiled our all-new Monte Carlo-style Rally for hybrid and
biodiesel vehicle owners - and over 40 teams competed for cash prizes for
vehicle efficiency. While several teams tried to capture the cash prize
and the 100-mpg challenge - the 100-mpg challenge is still out there for
the taking - and there is a lot of buzz on the Internet among those who
think they can capture that prize!
* We are renaming our events for e-bikes and neighborhood vehicles the
Around-Town Challenge. We will be working with teachers to bring this fun
and inspiring event to a growing number of students, and then bring them
to the Tour de Sol! Off-road vehicles are also invited to participate.
* We have sharpened the focus of the Tour de Sol Championship to showcase
one-of-a-kind vehicles that aim to reduce oil use and climate change
emissions to zero. Last year cutting-edge plug-in hybrids, electric
vehicles run on zero-carbon electricity, and hybrids run on biodiesel
were among the many entries.
* We will host two new competitions for middle school children - the
Junior Solar Sprint event for model solar cars, and the all-new H2Help
Competition for model hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.
* We will showcase hybrid, natural gas, and fuel cell vehicles from Toyota,
Honda, Ford, Nissan, Hyundai and DaimlerChrysler, and New York State
businesses and others that have been working to bring sustainable energy
and transportation to market and into the main stream. Last year over 40
exhibitors showcased their products, programs, and services.
--
Mike Bianchi
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I would think that the controller might still overheat even at -30C if there
were no water flow. You might want to consider a variable speed pump so you
can slow the water flow if it's too cold and block the radiator in the
winter to keep the heat in or put a bypass valve in so you can remove the
radiator during especially cold days. Siemens must have low/high
temperature specs for the cooling water you can use as a reference.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Osmo Sarin
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 4:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Cooling in cold climate
We can have -30 C (-22 F) in winter here in Finland at best/worst. (Not
so often anymore, "thanks" to the greenhouse effect...) If the water
pump of my soon to become Siemens AC conversion is ON all the time, it
keeps the motor (and inverter) very cold, which isn´t a good thing for
the bearings at least.
On the other hand, a low temperature brings the resistance of electric
components down, right? So which one is more important, pros or cons?
Should I use a thermostat to measure the water temperature and to cut
on/off the pump? It would be off most of the year I think, saving the
pump and amps also.
Has anyone done this?
Thanks again,
Osmo
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Steve Arlint wrote:
> Transmissions are expensive and need increasing maintenance with age.
> Eliminating this device in an EV would be outstanding.
This is why essentially all vehicles designed as EVs are direct drive (no
transmission).
> In the real world, with voltage and current limits on a series DC motor,
> direct drive does not seem to be vastly superior VS. a transmission.
Right. Better, but not "vastly" better.
> One solution to this is the series/parallel switching. In essence a
> 2-speed transmission.
The series/parallel trick only deals with the electrical side of things; it
does not affect the mechanical side of the motor. The motors still have to
cover the entire speed and torque range.
Series/parallel in effect puts an electrical "gearbox" between the controller
and motors. Series converts (say) 100 volts at 100 amps from the controller
into 50v at 200 amps for the motors (100 amps per motor x 2 motors = 200
motor amps).
> would it be possible to control a series DC motor in a different way?
> One thing comes to mind. A controller could be made to independantly
> control the armature and field coils.
Yes; this is the separately controlled (Sepex) motor. Very common, and widely
used in higher-end applications. Now that electronics are getting cheaper,
it's also being used more in lower-end applications like golf carts and fork
lifts.
> Notice that I haven't mentioned AC motors. I am still awhile from that
> world. I am interested though.
There is no fundamental difference between AC and DC motors. DC motors just
have a built-in DC-to-AC converter (the brushes and commutator).
For any motor, the maximum rpm is limited by the strength of the rotor. The
highest rpm rotors are just a solid block of magnetic material (permanent
magnet = synchronous motor, iron alloy = reluctance motor). When you add
windings to the rotor, it gets weaker because aluminum and copper aren't very
strong (induction AC and wound DC motors). When you add a commutator, it gets
weaker yet because the copper bars can't be secured nearly as well.
The maximum torque it can produce is limited by the magnetic field strength,
the surface area of the magnetic field between rotor and stator, and its
radius from the center. Permanent magnet materials can produce high field
stengths; wound coils can only get higher if you can deal with lots of heat
produced by wire resistance. Superconducting wire can get around this, but it
isn't practical in small motors. Neither AC or DC have any advantages here.
It takes the same current to produce a given field strength, AC or DC.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Howdy,
Does anyone have an Elec-Trak or Golf Cart charger transformer or dead charger
with a 1500W transformer for sale $50-$100? Please email me offline.
Thanks, Mark
mark E. Hanson
184 Vista Lane
Fincastle, VA 24090
540-473-1248-H
540-563-2000x290-W
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The ICS-2000's are no longer made; they do show up on eBay and elsewhere
from time to time if you search around.
Folks on the Solectria list have found documentation here:
http://www.evchargernews.com/miscfiles/evii/
I believe other AVCON units are still being made if you are not picky
about the brand..
Nick Austin wrote:
Hey,
Can you buy an ICS-200 AVCON head?
I would like to buy one, any info would be appreciated.
Also, do you know how much they went for when they were sold new?
Thanks!
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
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Charging batteries properly is no easy task. This problem has generated
endless interesting discussions on this list. What is really needed is
direct sensing of the battery chemistry by the charger. One way to do
this for AGM and gel cells is to put a pressure sensor in each cell, or
some selected cells. When the pressure goes above 2 psi, or whatever
level the particular battery is designed for, the charger would be set
to back off on the charge rate. This is not my original idea, and has
been mentioned before, but seem to have a lot of merit. Some brave soul,
if they didn't mind modifying their precious Optimas by drilling holes
in them and installing pressure switches, could do this now. NiMH
batteries, which also build pressure when they are fully charged, could
be controlled in this way, too.
Of course, where does this leave our floodie users? Instead of using
pressure, one could install an "Acoustic Charge Sensor" that uses a
microphone to listen for the fizzing, bubbling sounds of a fully
charged flooded battery. This might also work for flooded ni-cads. The
hard part would be designing software that can recognize the fizzing
sound..neural nets, anyone?
Jay
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Isn't this only a requirement for 2 gears only?
Some older vehicles used Overdrive in the Diff.
A single planetary drive could provide the reduction for low speed and
get bypassed for highway speed speeds. I know there is no stock item
out there that could handle the current power levels, but even a medium
capacity unit would be useful for a lot of different EV's.
I'm not in a position to build so just my 2c worth.
Regards
Randall
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Robison
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 December 2005 3:39 p.m.
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
>
>
> On Tue, December 13, 2005 7:33 pm, Steve Arlint said:
> > Hi There,
> >
> > This direct drive discusion has really caught my interest.
> > Transmissions are expensive and need increasing maintenance
> with age.
> > Eliminating this device in an EV would be outstanding. In the real
> > world, with voltage and current limits on a series DC motor, direct
> > drive does not seem to be vastly superior VS. a
> transmission. If you
> > gear for low current consumption, you're motor will reach it's RPM
> > limit before you reach a decent speed. If you gear the other way
> > around, too much current is used for the speed that you want.
>
> I'll be struggling with this myself, having a motor with a
> fairly low redline. My eventual solution of using two
> different rear end gearsets for street and strip isn't
> terribly practical, but it's lighter than a transmission.
>
>
> > One solution to this is the series/parallel switching. In
> essence a
> > 2-speed transmission.
> >
> > To overcome this direct drive issue for just one motor, would it be
> > possible to control a series DC motor in a differnt way? One thing
> > comes
>
> The Warp13 does this with a split field. One motor, six
> terminals, two speeds. Time will tell how effective this
> turns out to be.
>
> > to mind. A controller could be made to independantly control the
> > armature and field coils. Not just field weakening, but completely
> > controlling both to always be optimized for range. I am
> not sure on
> > this though.
> >
> > My other question is would another DC type motor be better
> suited for
> > direct drive? For instance, A Cumulative Compound DC motor. Good
> > starting torque from the series winding, and lower current
> draws and
> > smoother regenerative breaking when up to speed. These types of
> > motors are more expensive though.
> >
> > Notice that I haven't mentioned AC motors. I am still awhile from
> > that world. I am interested though.
>
> I think the ultimate motor for using without a transmission
> is one with a completely flat torque curve all the way out to
> an enormously high RPM limit -- which does tend to point to AC.
>
> For DC EV motors though, I think more attention should be
> paid to raising the redline -- moveable brushes actuated by a
> high-speed stepper or voicecoil via a standard digital
> interface with the controller, interpoles, kevlar banding,
> steel commutators. All of this would be worth the extra cost
> to get more power from less iron and copper, the latter of
> which has climbed in price so much in recent years that
> "copper theft" is becoming a common problem.
>
> With engines, the Japanese have shown us that there are
> benefits to having a tiny engine that revs to insane speeds.
> There *is* a replacement for displacement; torque is only
> half the picture. I think the same could be true of motors.
> If you could rev a Warp9 to 15,000 rpm and could apply
> whatever necessary wizardry to prevent arcing the comm to
> death, you might get as much power out of it as a monster
> motor like mine, and your entire motor would still weigh
> about as much as my armature.
>
> Of course if your car is RWD, having a driveshaft spinning at
> 15,000 rpm sounds a little scary; you'd probably want some
> reduction on the motor side as well as in the diff. :o)
>
>
> --chris
>
>
>
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