EV Digest 5004
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: PFC Charger - will it work for a NICAD Mini Cooper EV?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: MG,
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Sell me some battery heaters
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Update on Schedule for Battery Beach Burnout
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Schwinn Stingray possible dud. Smoking after 1/2 block & not the tires.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Has DC Reached its Limits?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: More Tour de Sol info ...
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Hawker Odyssey batteries
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Generating line power from cars
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Emergency disconnect idea,
was Motor control for direct drive setup
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Generating line power from cars
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Generating line power from cars
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Has DC Reached its Limits?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Power brake vacuum assist
by jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Has DC Reached its Limits?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Power brake vacuum assist
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Setting up a Direct Drive
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Schwinn Stingray possible dud. Smoking after 1/2 block & not
the tires.
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: MG,
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Hawker Odyssey batteries
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Generating line power from cars
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Has DC Reached its Limits?
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Newbie Question - Batteries
by "Joe Bowen1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Metro Conversion
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Yes it will work...with good brain to control it, see Madman for this but
may i advise you on batteries choice:
Aircraft starting nicad is not better energy density than best one lead acid
(GEL) which is arround 38 kwh/kg at 25°C because this nicad type are power
inclined battery (engine starting) not energy ones as you "prefer" for EV
use.
On cold temp nicad keep major part of this energy so here BB600 is way
better than lead acid, you don't live in siberia ? :^)
If you want to obtain nicad 55-60kwh/kg, you need EV purpose batteries like
STM5 or switch to another technologie for even better kwh/kg.
Yes you can parallel BB600 or others small capacity nicad cells, all is
possible, but don't !
it will be problematic at discharge and catastrophic at charge without
complexe BMS.
Seems to me using optima or Exide in your car, waiting for EV usable lithium
technologie would be interesting waiting choice, once your pack will go to
recycling yard, just switch to li-ion :^)
Car maker will not make it happen soon but fortunately we have Jukka, Victor
and probably others, who are developing such EV purpose lithium packs, it's
just a question of months.
cordialement,
Philippe
Happy nicad user but testing li-ion with interest :^)
Citroën Saxo 32000km now so still have 2/3 life batteries left...
Modified Italvel Day scooter "EVolution" 50km range at 80km/h (50Ah aircraft
starting nicad) 2500km and counting
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Monty McGraw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 1:54 AM
Subject: PFC Charger - will it work for a NICAD Mini Cooper EV?
> I did some web searching and looked at the EV archives today for NICAD
> chargers for EV conversions.
>
> I'm interested in converting my classic Mini Cooper to an EV as my second
> conversion. My first EV conversion was my '88 Pontiac Fiero GT
> www.austinev.org/evalbum/134.html
>
> I was pretty happy with my Fiero EV conversion, completed in 1995 - range
> max around 45 miles good acceleration - 3rd place in the APS EV drag races
> in 1996. I used 8V Trojan deep cycles, just introduced at the time. 9"
ADC
> motor, Auburn Scientific controller, Zivan charger and 18 8V batteries for
a
> pack voltage of 144V. I put over 10K miles on this car driving back and
> forth to work daily.
>
> Now I have been happily driving my classic Mini Cooper, and the 1.3L Rover
4
> cylinder engine needs repairs - so I'm ready to chuck that gas engine and
> convert my mini to an EV. Since the car is well under 1500 pounds, I'm
> thinking of a much smaller battery pack - but better energy density than
> Lead Acid.
>
> I've followed the information on the military surplus BB600 nicad cells
and
> think they may be just the ticket for my next conversion - however, the
> charging requirements seems to be substantially different than for PbA.
The
> Marathon Nicad battery manual calls out charging using constant current at
a
> rate of C/2, followed by topping off at a rate almost C/4.
>
> As I understand the PFC charger - it is constant voltage. Has anyone
> attempted to control one to get constant current?
>
> I saw on this list a posting by Rich Rudman this summer that indicated he
> might be producing an updated model that would help in charging Nicad
> battery packs.
>
> Any updates on this effort Rich or Joe?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Monty McGraw
> '88 Pontiac Fiero GT EV
> '70 GE I-5 Elec-Trak Electric Garden Tractor
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich and Shawn good job in a very short amount of time.With 2 zillas and the
power to feed them from the lithium pack the 4700lb chevy with all the good
suspension work should run 8.64 seconds in the qt.mi. at 157mph.I would not
expect this in your 1st run out but after 5-8 passes.These #s come from the
VERY
predicitable Speedworld horsepower calc. on their site,but do not include my
multipiler.With that multiplier in the equa.you will run 8.48 in the qt.mi.
What a difference a little NITRO makes!!!! Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am using some NAPA wrap-around type battery heaters. I dont' wrap' em
around though, I just let the batteries sit on them. The longest one they
sell fits perfectly for one of my battery banks to sit on.
They are controlled by a WalMart-type 20$ a/c / heater thermostat.
Michaela
> another thought for battery warmer would be the pipe warmer that you
> plug in the wall. might be heavier wire than the soil warmers...
>
> Roy LeMeur wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Folks
>>
>> I am doing some comparison shopping for flat battery heaters, I know
>> there are quite a few different ones.
>>
>> Reliability is more important than low cost.
>>
>> Looking for a reliable product and supplier.
>>
>> Please contact me off-list.
>>
>> roylemeur at hotmail dot com
>>
>> Thanks!
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Roy LeMeur
>> Olympia WA
>>
>> My Electric Vehicle Pages:
>> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>>
>> Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
>> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>>
>> EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
>> http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
>>
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Keith,
So far we have a pretty up to date list of competitors on the website's
competitor's page and really try to keep it updated. We also have several
other EV'ers who will be in attendance, not with their cars, but will be
here in person to support us. I don't have a list of folks planning to
watch, but I know that it is around 4 or 5 people from the EV list that have
told they are planning to be down here. We are hoping to have between 15 and
20 EV's here at the race and are well on our way to hitting that number.
For those on the list that are planning to come, but haven't let us know
(car or no-car), please drop us a line and let us know!!! (race at
batterybeach.com)
Thanks!
Shawn Waggoner
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of keith vansickle
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 10:59 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Update on Schedule for Battery Beach Burnout
shawn and everyone going to BBB,
can you put together a list of the people that have
commited to being there...I am thinking about comming
but so often I go to EV events and find to my dismay
that there are only 4 or 5 competators and ten or
fifteen people who show up at all.. Since it will cost
me around a $1000 to come I want to make sure it will
be a better turn out than most EV events Otherwise I
will just send the money to Jerry for the Freedom
thanks
keith
--- Shawn Waggoner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Just a quick update on the events for the Battery
> Beach Burnout. We have had
> to remove one of the events from the Battery Beach
> Burnout that we were
> planning to hold. Not to fear it wasn't the Drag
> Race or Autocross. We had
> to pull the scooter-cross we were hoping to have for
> fun. All of the other
> events are still on!
>
> We were informed by Moroso's management that due to
> insurance and liability
> reasons we were not going to be able to hold that
> one. They can't have
> scooters on the tracks. So maybe if folks want, we
> can meet up some where
> else and have some fun with the scooters.
>
> While I'm discussing Moroso and the track's
> management, I want to say to
> everyone that the track has been behind this event
> 100%. They are excited
> about having an alternative fuel race at their
> track. They are continuing to
> help us plan the drag race, show and shine, and
> autocross.
>
> Be sure to check the website frequently for updates.
> We have added several
> more people to the competitor's page who have told
> us they are going to be
> here.
>
> Please let us know if you have any questions - race
> (at) batterybeach.com
>
> Thanks!
>
> Shawn Waggoner
> NEDRA Southeast Coordinator
> www.batterybeach.com
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Or you mean you'd really like someone else to built it to
> satisfy your curiosity?
I would if the AC setup was available and affordable. For now, I'm
planning on a 13" WarP and Z2K until or unless an equal or more
powerful AC setup becomes available.
Has DC reached it's limits?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I could get the redline of the motor to match 30mph or less I'd be happy.
I'm afraid it is geared for about 70mph right now. Oh man. I'm not sure 10
to one will do it. LR...........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 10:37 PM
Subject: RE: Schwinn Stingray possible dud. Smoking after 1/2 block & not
the tires.
Lawrence,
To test what your gearing should be, you could use the *front*
sprockets of a bike.
But I agree that stronger sprockets are in place when you are
applying power to go way over 30 MPH.
You may be able to find moped sprockets or just order stronger
(industrial?) sprockets or have them machined for a stronger
chain type.
Classmates in highschool were wrenching on their mopeds to
increase power and some were going over 100 km/h but
invariably they broke the teeth off their sprockets or ate
chains when they used the stock parts (max speed for mopeds
was 40 km/h outside city limits and there is a legal limit
to the amount of power the engine is allowed to produce in NL)
BTW - do you know (have you calculated) the RPM of your motor?
If you have a 20" wheel then at 40 MPH it will rotate at
40mi/(60min x pi x 20in) = 2534400in/3770min*in = 672 RPM.
Your gearing will up that to 672 x 36/7 = 3457 RPM.
That does not sound like a small motor's redline to me, but
what is your motor redline?
Another data point - what is your motor current?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 1:14 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Schwinn Stingray possible dud. Smoking after 1/2 block &
not the tires.
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:15:30 -0800, "Lawrence Rhodes"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm guessing I don't have the right ratio. I have a 7 sprocket to 36
sprocket. 5 1/7 to one. A little smoke was comming from the brushes.
This
is a 0.5kw pump motor from a forklift hydrolic system. I spent 300 buck
to
have this machined. I'd like to get it working. It has plenty of weight
and the case is very strong. I'm sure it will disipate heat better than
an
Etek. It spins very fast under no load. Now the challenge seems to be to
gear it down further. I'm using bike parts and simply Dremmeled a back
cluster off and used a 36 tooth rear sprocket. I'm running 24v with a 300
amp Altrax controller. Here are some pictures at 80% complete. It stops
well.
Your gearing is far off. By example, my 36 volt GoBig scooter with
approx 12" diameter wheels, a 450 amp Altrax and a similar motor was
geared 9/41 tooth from the factory. I've upped the gearing to 11/41
to get a bit more top speed, now around 50mph.
I can't tell if yours is the 16" or 20" wheel but I'll assume the 20".
To achieve the same gearing as my scooter, for about a 45-50 mph top
speed, you'd need 41 tooth * 20"/12" = 68 teeth on the rear sprocket.
If yours is a 16" wheel then you need 41 * 16/12 = 55 teeth.
I'd actually gear somewhat lower to reduce the motor amps. I have
mine geared for performance at the expense of range. It cruises at 30
mph on level ground at about 35 amps battery current and over 100 amps
motor current. The motor current is quite high, a function of the
high gearing.
I suspect that your rear gear attachment is going to give you
problems. I suspect that the torque is going to break things. I've
been this route with much smaller motors and had problems. I suggest
trying to copy the Currie attachment which was a circle of aluminum
with grooves machined to fit over and clamp to the spokes. Perhaps
you could duplicate that in Delrin or even make a mold and cast a
mount over the spokes from epoxy/fiberglass.
An alternative that works well is one that a friend of mine uses on
his electric bike. He fastened a smaller bike rim to the spokes with
clamps and screws through the side of the rim and drives it with a
serpentine-type belt. I clocked this bike with my radar gun at 62mph.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Has DC reached it's limits?
No! Keep your eyes on what we DC drag racers do in 2006!
See Ya....John 'Monster Garage Rejectee' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote ...
>Bianchi wrote:
>> * We will showcase hybrid, natural gas, and fuel cell vehicles from Toyota,
>> Honda, Ford, Nissan, Hyundai and Daimler Chrysler, and New York State
>> businesses and others that have been working to bring sustainable energy
>> and transportation to market and into the main stream. Last year over 40
>> exhibitors showcased their products, programs, and services.
>>
>Have Mitsubishi and Subaru bring their new EV's!
I am certain they will be asked. But having "ordinary" people asking would
also help. Send them a request.
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
I've been doing a bit of hunting around on the 'Net,
and have managed to unearth some UK suppliers of
Hawker/Enersys Odyssey batteries who actually list prices
( not massively far away from the prices for Exide Orbitals here in the UK )
Is anyone using the current generation of these batteries, and what
sort of performance are you getting? I'm thinking Z2K and twin Netgain Warp
motor territory here!
( my Monster EV idea just won't go away - it's gonna eat all my money!
=:-o )
I'd also be interested to know what kind of cycle life people are
getting, if
anyone's got that data.
Thanks
Richard Bebbington
electric Mini pickup
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/electric.mini/
UK dealer for Netgain EV motors!
www.supralectrix.co.uk
(website coming soon!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 02:36:03 -0600, Danny Miller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Huh. These guys are thinking in reverse. They made a speed bump that
>generates electricity from the car driving over it.
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/somerset/4535408.stm
>
>Not really sure why this would even be useful since it's not a reliable,
>consistent power source and solar should have otherwise been able to do
>a remote power job... but I make it a point to applaud creative thinking.
That idea made the rounds the first time I'm aware of back in the late
60s when I was in high school. This isn't the only idea to come along
to "harvest" energy from passing vehicles. Another one that pops up
every few years is to harness the wind energy created in tunnels.
I can just imagine the can 'o worms this will open up with the lawyers
and pundits. That thing takes a little bit of power from each car and
therefore takes a bit of money. At what point does purchased energy
enter the public domain, free to be harvested by anyone? Or does it
at all? If the government can do it then why not private citizens?
Why not a ramp every 10 ft at the mall to generate power for the
overhead lights? Do I have the right to choose where my energy is
dissipated? How 'bout the additional wear this thing will cause to
car's suspensions? (Amateur pundits will cite speed bumps. Not the
same. The speed bump is there to perform a legitimate traffic control
purpose and does it with minimal invasive effects. This thing is
there to "steal" energy from passers by, not a legitimate traffic
control goal.)
As a practical matter, this won't go anywhere any more than it has in
decades past but it does raise some interesting public policy
questions.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I really like this idea -- the system would be more like a state machine.
If you're applying brakes, and maybe also if you're *not* applying the
throttle, the vehicle should "know" that in a braking state there's no
reason besides an electrical failure that would cause you to be drawing
more than a small trickle through the controller. Your existing instinct
to mash the brakes would still be effective, and so you wouldn't have to
worry about "training" anyone else who drives the vehicle to be aware of a
pedal, handle, or ripcord in an emergency.
My only concern would be if the failure happens at speed. If you're
mashing the brakes in an emergency and suddenly the fuse blows, then
instantly your effective braking force jumps, potentially locking the
wheels. Possibly limiting the allowed current might prevent this from
being a significant problem; you wouldn't have to brake very hard to get
the system to realize something is wrong.
--chris
On Sat, December 17, 2005 9:19 pm, Jeff Shanab said:
> What about this? Since my foot is already on brake, we amplify that
> "intent". We take the brake light signal to a relay that energizes
> safety circuit, safety circuit ejects fuse or pops breaker or whatever
> if over 100 amps. Now my foot is already on the brake, if it lurches
> forward, my natural tendency is to stomp on the brakes anyway and the
> circuit pops mid lurch. This way noone gets hit with commutator
> schrapnel. this also can be tied to inertia switch.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Perhaps the better idea would be to make a roadway of these things and
pop them up as the vehicle passes, giving each car a electric boost from
afar. Finally, the wireless electric automobile!
Danny
Neon John wrote:
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 02:36:03 -0600, Danny Miller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Huh. These guys are thinking in reverse. They made a speed bump that
generates electricity from the car driving over it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/somerset/4535408.stm
Not really sure why this would even be useful since it's not a reliable,
consistent power source and solar should have otherwise been able to do
a remote power job... but I make it a point to applaud creative thinking.
That idea made the rounds the first time I'm aware of back in the late
60s when I was in high school. This isn't the only idea to come along
to "harvest" energy from passing vehicles. Another one that pops up
every few years is to harness the wind energy created in tunnels.
I can just imagine the can 'o worms this will open up with the lawyers
and pundits. That thing takes a little bit of power from each car and
therefore takes a bit of money. At what point does purchased energy
enter the public domain, free to be harvested by anyone? Or does it
at all? If the government can do it then why not private citizens?
Why not a ramp every 10 ft at the mall to generate power for the
overhead lights? Do I have the right to choose where my energy is
dissipated? How 'bout the additional wear this thing will cause to
car's suspensions? (Amateur pundits will cite speed bumps. Not the
same. The speed bump is there to perform a legitimate traffic control
purpose and does it with minimal invasive effects. This thing is
there to "steal" energy from passers by, not a legitimate traffic
control goal.)
As a practical matter, this won't go anywhere any more than it has in
decades past but it does raise some interesting public policy
questions.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:00 AM 12/18/2005, Neon John wrote:
I can just imagine the can 'o worms this will open up with the lawyers
and pundits. That thing takes a little bit of power from each car and
therefore takes a bit of money. At what point does purchased energy
enter the public domain, free to be harvested by anyone? Or does it
at all? If the government can do it then why not private citizens?
Even though the power is being used to directly benefit the driver
(power traffic lights) somebody will complain that this is an unjust "tax".
sigh.
Hmm, off topic isn't it. I'll stop now.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has DC reached it's limits? Your kidding, right? It must be one of the
following.
!) It's the first of April and I've been hibernating through the winter.
2) I'm on the wrong list, this is actually the joke list
3) They just passed a law to limit new advances in battery power density
4) The Surgeon General just declared DC cars hazardous to your mental health
Whatever it is I will just ignore it!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 8:19 AM
Subject: Has DC Reached its Limits?
Hello to All,
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Has DC reached it's limits?
No! Keep your eyes on what we DC drag racers do in 2006!
See Ya....John 'Monster Garage Rejectee' Wayland
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 12/16/2005
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 12/16/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Newbie with Metro conversion ... Any options for the power brakes ?
Has anyone tried this ...
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/5565/powrbrak.html
Can another master cylinder be used without vacuum assist ? An older VW
does not use vacuum assist
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AC drives providing power more than you need to keep traction
and stay away from breaking things *are* available.
Next year I'll have more choices to offer than I do now.
Yes, expensive but available and you can get one today if you want.
Victor
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Or you mean you'd really like someone else to built it to
satisfy your curiosity?
I would if the AC setup was available and affordable. For now, I'm
planning on a 13" WarP and Z2K until or unless an equal or more
powerful AC setup becomes available.
Has DC reached it's limits?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Ryan, all
Remember that a motor AC or DC is just one piece to the puzzle to getting a
perfectly tune machine. WZ, OJ, CE, these cars show these guys know what it
takes to match motor, batt's, controller and frame to make awesome EV's. I
doubt these boys are retiring any time soon. I'm honored to know the west
coast group and they aint licking themselves over passed achievment but looking
to the next projects. I'm a DC guy, it's what I know and where I'm doing R&D,
but many many others are working on improvents that will add to a motors
abilities.
D.C. maxed? I'm just getting started, my man, just getting started.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi_Torque Electric
John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello to All,
Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
>Has DC reached it's limits?
>
>
>
No! Keep your eyes on what we DC drag racers do in 2006!
See Ya....John 'Monster Garage Rejectee' Wayland
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
I'm doing a Metro conversion, too, and since the car won't weigh much more
as an EV than it did as an ICE, I actually got rid of the power booster
altogether and replaced the master cylinder with a non-power brake cylinder
from a 1987 Honda Civic. Before removing the ICE, I drove the car around
for a few weeks with the new, non-power brakes, and had no problems.
There were two additional parts required: 1) a brake line splitter, since
the Metro's cylinder has three brake lines attached to it but the Civic's
has only two--the splitter is available from most any Toyota. I got mine
from a 4Runner; 2) I also had to grind a new push rod from an M6 100mm bolt
to fit into the clevis.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jim
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 1:01 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Power brake vacuum assist
Newbie with Metro conversion ... Any options for the power brakes ?
Has anyone tried this ...
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/5565/powrbrak.html
Can another master cylinder be used without vacuum assist ? An older VW
does not use vacuum assist
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
I've considered this as well. Use a small, efficient AC motor for cruising,
and a larger DC motor for rapid accelleration and hill-climbing. An
efficienct EV shouldn't need more than 5-10kw or so of AC power; that's a
fairly small motor and industrial inverter, 1/10th the size (and cost) of
what it would take if the AC drive had to do everything itself. Then have a
big series motor and simple PWM controller that can produce 50-100kw peak.
The key is that it only needs to do so for short periods of time; it never
needs to run continuous-duty.
As a ground up production type vehicle it would be a ridiculously
complicated way to do things.
Normal cars are already ridiculously complicated! How could this be any worse?
Just as you described: use two systems (AC+DC) instead of one.
You may save some dollars if you manage to find 1/2 of power
for 1/10 of price, but complications wise it is most definitely
more complicated that either AC or DC system by itself.
As always, I'm expecting counter-argument (proving nothing) :-)
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
10:1 gearing would give you approximately 5000 RPM at 30 MPH
and twice the torque at every speed you have now, or conversely
a much lower motor current at every speed, due to the higher
back EMF at the twice as high motor RPM.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 8:30 AM
To: Cor van de Water; ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Schwinn Stingray possible dud. Smoking after 1/2 block &
not the tires.
If I could get the redline of the motor to match 30mph or less I'd be happy.
I'm afraid it is geared for about 70mph right now. Oh man. I'm not sure 10
to one will do it. LR...........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 10:37 PM
Subject: RE: Schwinn Stingray possible dud. Smoking after 1/2 block & not
the tires.
> Lawrence,
>
> To test what your gearing should be, you could use the *front*
> sprockets of a bike.
> But I agree that stronger sprockets are in place when you are
> applying power to go way over 30 MPH.
> You may be able to find moped sprockets or just order stronger
> (industrial?) sprockets or have them machined for a stronger
> chain type.
> Classmates in highschool were wrenching on their mopeds to
> increase power and some were going over 100 km/h but
> invariably they broke the teeth off their sprockets or ate
> chains when they used the stock parts (max speed for mopeds
> was 40 km/h outside city limits and there is a legal limit
> to the amount of power the engine is allowed to produce in NL)
>
> BTW - do you know (have you calculated) the RPM of your motor?
>
> If you have a 20" wheel then at 40 MPH it will rotate at
> 40mi/(60min x pi x 20in) = 2534400in/3770min*in = 672 RPM.
> Your gearing will up that to 672 x 36/7 = 3457 RPM.
> That does not sound like a small motor's redline to me, but
> what is your motor redline?
>
> Another data point - what is your motor current?
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Neon John
> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 1:14 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Schwinn Stingray possible dud. Smoking after 1/2 block &
> not the tires.
>
>
> On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:15:30 -0800, "Lawrence Rhodes"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>I'm guessing I don't have the right ratio. I have a 7 sprocket to 36
>>sprocket. 5 1/7 to one. A little smoke was comming from the brushes.
> This
>>is a 0.5kw pump motor from a forklift hydrolic system. I spent 300 buck
>>to
>
>>have this machined. I'd like to get it working. It has plenty of weight
>>and the case is very strong. I'm sure it will disipate heat better than
>>an
>
>>Etek. It spins very fast under no load. Now the challenge seems to be to
>>gear it down further. I'm using bike parts and simply Dremmeled a back
>>cluster off and used a 36 tooth rear sprocket. I'm running 24v with a 300
>>amp Altrax controller. Here are some pictures at 80% complete. It stops
>>well.
>
> Your gearing is far off. By example, my 36 volt GoBig scooter with
> approx 12" diameter wheels, a 450 amp Altrax and a similar motor was
> geared 9/41 tooth from the factory. I've upped the gearing to 11/41
> to get a bit more top speed, now around 50mph.
>
> I can't tell if yours is the 16" or 20" wheel but I'll assume the 20".
> To achieve the same gearing as my scooter, for about a 45-50 mph top
> speed, you'd need 41 tooth * 20"/12" = 68 teeth on the rear sprocket.
> If yours is a 16" wheel then you need 41 * 16/12 = 55 teeth.
>
> I'd actually gear somewhat lower to reduce the motor amps. I have
> mine geared for performance at the expense of range. It cruises at 30
> mph on level ground at about 35 amps battery current and over 100 amps
> motor current. The motor current is quite high, a function of the
> high gearing.
>
> I suspect that your rear gear attachment is going to give you
> problems. I suspect that the torque is going to break things. I've
> been this route with much smaller motors and had problems. I suggest
> trying to copy the Currie attachment which was a circle of aluminum
> with grooves machined to fit over and clamp to the spokes. Perhaps
> you could duplicate that in Delrin or even make a mold and cast a
> mount over the spokes from epoxy/fiberglass.
>
> An alternative that works well is one that a friend of mine uses on
> his electric bike. He fastened a smaller bike rim to the spokes with
> clamps and screws through the side of the rim and drives it with a
> serpentine-type belt. I clocked this bike with my radar gun at 62mph.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
> Emerson
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis,
I'm being a little more conservative, hoping for low 13's.
Peak power per pack is about 1.2kW x 384 =612 Battery HP.
I don't think we'll get the ok to crank it up to that level though.
The front end is shot on this car and the X-frame chassis is rusted
through something terrible.
Just hitting the accelerator gets it all twisted up.
The only place that is decent is right behind the motor where it was
leaking oil.
It will be a CHALLENGE just to keep it in one pc for a decent run or 2.
Something ironic(albeit fun) about spinning $3000 wheels on a $300
chassis.
I know your not a team guy but you would have enjoyed it.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:56:13 EST
Subject: Re: MG,
Rich and Shawn good job in a very short amount of time.With 2 zillas
and the
power to feed them from the lithium pack the 4700lb chevy with all the
good
suspension work should run 8.64 seconds in the qt.mi. at 157mph.I would
not
expect this in your 1st run out but after 5-8 passes.These #s come from
the VERY
predicitable Speedworld horsepower calc. on their site,but do not
include my
multipiler.With that multiplier in the equa.you will run 8.48 in the
qt.mi.
What a difference a little NITRO makes!!!! Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Is anyone using the current generation of these batteries?"
I have placed the order for these in my size (pc1200). My battery guy after
looking at the data about the etek and my controller with the size limits of my
honda M/C, said they will be the best bang for the buck. ($150e) The used ones
that he lent me are 10+ years old (telecom stand-by batts) and work fine for
testing. Range is only 4 miles @ 55 mph. I can draw 80 amps for 12 minutes (I
believe that new ones will give me 100a for 15 min.)
"I'd also be interested to know what kind of cycle life people are
getting, if
anyone's got that data."
Again, in theory, they should cycle 250 to 400 with a 80% dod and c/5 charge. I
like the pure lead-tin design. The steel jacket is good to being on a
motorcycle. (nasty rocks ya know!) Although in a car i wouldnt waste the few
extra pounds on each batt.
Hope that helps, Paul
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
SIgn me up! Wireless electric cars, all controlled by the
state/government....hmmm sounds like the movie, I Robot. Next forum will be the
discussion of rebuilding an IC engine!
paul
Perhaps the better idea would be to make a roadway of these things and
pop them up as the vehicle passes, giving each car a electric boost from
afar. Finally, the wireless electric automobile!
Danny
Neon John wrote:
>On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 02:36:03 -0600, Danny Miller
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Huh. These guys are thinking in reverse. They made a speed bump that
>>generates electricity from the car driving over it.
>>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/somerset/4535408.stm
>>
>>Not really sure why this would even be useful since it's not a reliable,
>>consistent power source and solar should have otherwise been able to do
>>a remote power job... but I make it a point to applaud creative thinking.
>>
>>
>
>That idea made the rounds the first time I'm aware of back in the late
>60s when I was in high school. This isn't the only idea to come along
>to "harvest" energy from passing vehicles. Another one that pops up
>every few years is to harness the wind energy created in tunnels.
>
>I can just imagine the can 'o worms this will open up with the lawyers
>and pundits. That thing takes a little bit of power from each car and
>therefore takes a bit of money. At what point does purchased energy
>enter the public domain, free to be harvested by anyone? Or does it
>at all? If the government can do it then why not private citizens?
>Why not a ramp every 10 ft at the mall to generate power for the
>overhead lights? Do I have the right to choose where my energy is
>dissipated? How 'bout the additional wear this thing will cause to
>car's suspensions? (Amateur pundits will cite speed bumps. Not the
>same. The speed bump is there to perform a legitimate traffic control
>purpose and does it with minimal invasive effects. This thing is
>there to "steal" energy from passers by, not a legitimate traffic
>control goal.)
>
>As a practical matter, this won't go anywhere any more than it has in
>decades past but it does raise some interesting public policy
>questions.
>
>John
>
>---
>John De Armond
>See my website for my current email address
>http://www.johngsbbq.com
>Cleveland, Occupied TN
>A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So thats why when i get near it my mind goes ballistic! And i thought it was
EMF?!
4) The Surgeon General just declared DC cars hazardous to your mental health!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, hit the wrong key.
Did not get a chance to say Thanks for your assistance.
Seems like a great list group.
Joe Bowen
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Bowen1 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 7:08 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Newbie Question - Batteries
Base Info
98 Volkswagen Golf (4 door)
144 DC System
Advanced DC 9 FB1-4001 Motor
Curtis 1231C-8601 Controller
5 speed transmission (clutch-less)
Goal of being a Commuter Car (13 miles each way)
Battery Trojan J-150 (70 min @ 70 amps)
6 batteries back / 6 front
I would like to support a 115v 15 amp circuit for charging (Maybe
charge the front, then the back, i.e. 72 volts per charge)
My Main question refers to the Batteries
The J-150 seems like it easily meet the range requirement
Is there a better battery to go with?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What Motor / Controller / Voltage are you going with ??
--- End Message ---
