EV Digest 5013
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: TS Undervoltage Detection
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: new btteries
by Calvin King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Clutchless shift with rpm-matching?
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Hawker Odyssey batteries
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
by "Rodney A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: EV acceptance idea
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV acceptance idea
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Clutchless shift - clarifying
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Clutchless shift with rpm-matching?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV acceptance idea
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV acceptance idea
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: "The Motor Will Splode"
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: "The Motor Will Splode"
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) scale, 3wh stability and my NEW Email address !!
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: "The Motor Will Splode"
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: "The Motor Will Splode"
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: new btteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EV acceptance idea
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV acceptance idea
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Clutchless shift with rpm-matching?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Clutchless shift - clarifying
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: new btteries
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: new btteries
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, Roger. I was pretty sure that a phototransistor was what I needed.
I just didn't know if there was one sensitive enough to detect a single LED
coming on from a few inches away.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 7:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: TS Undervoltage Detection
Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm still kicking this idea around and had another (probably
> wacky) thought. Instead of the optocouplers, which would need
> to have all their positive and negative leads wired together
> in parallel respectively, I was wondering if there is any
> device available that would let the following work: arrange
> the 35 LEDs (one from each cell) in as tight a circle as
> their size will allow, then put one photo-sensitive device at
> the circle's center. If any LED turned on, the device would
> turn on and sound an alarm. I could then look at the LEDs to
> see which were lit for undervoltage.
>
> Does such a component exist?
Sure, it is called a photo-transistor. You need to make sure that the
photo-transistor you use is sensitive to the frequency of the light
emitted by the LEDs you use, which may require you to use IR LEDs for
the best sensitivity.
Or, similar to Lee's suggestion some time back for his
zener/incandescent bypass regs, you could use a simple cadmium sulfide
(Cds) cell (a light sensitive resistor) such as are found in some
automatic night lights (i.e the sort that turn on when it gets dark).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well it seems that it can't be avoided, I need new batteries. I had
my pack check with a load tester and the guy at Battery Source
indicated that 6 of the sixteen did not measure up. I was surprised
that 1 I was sure was bad was good and 3 I thought were good did not
pass the test.
Anyway no one local sells trojans. Has anyone used the Gold-pro 220
sold by Battery source. I have the choice of Sam's, Battery Source
or ordering them.
What to do?
Calvin King
81 Jet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This thread is really bugging the crap out of me. First of all it should be
no big deal to do this. I have heard an F1 engine play the star spangled
banner using the injection computer, if a gas engine can do it why not an
electric motor. Creating a circuit to match rpms should not be rocket
science, BUT why?
With the power removed from the motor the syncros in the transmission can't
spin the motor to the correct rpm and slip it into gear? The armature can't
have that much inertia!
My Porsche 928 transmission is in the rear of the car, the syncros have to
spin up the 5 foot solid drive shaft, four ball bearings and a pair of
clutch discs. Been doing it for 130,000 miles. What don't I get?
GLAD I'M DOING AN AUTOMATIC.
Mark Grasser
http://members.rennlist.com/mgrasser
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 10:10 PM
Subject: RE: Clutchless shift with rpm-matching?
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The issue you have in mind is that typical DC controllers,
> such as the Curtis, have a throttle ramp delay built in,
> and/or otherwise heavily
...
No, Roger, this isn't the issue at all. We can clarify off
line as I feel this topic begin to dominate bandwidth.
No, please clarify online if you believe there is some other issue as
you are certainly not making yourself clear and there appears to be some
number of people interested in the challenge of automating the
speed-matching process for clutchless shifting.
Quite frankly, I do not see *any* issue with implementing such a control
loop quite satisfactorily with a DC motor and controller, as several
others have also pointed out. The only challenge would be attempting to
use a heavily filtered throttle input to a standard Curtis since this
would impose a limit on the response time achievable, which is why I
believed this to be the issue you were hinting at with your frequent
references to the DC controller's analog throttle input.
There is nothing magic about an AC motor and controller that endow it
with the ability to respond incredibly more rapidly than a DC motor and
controller; the laws of physics apply equally to both. Your AC
controller may already include speed control loops, however, there is
nothing magic about them that prevents a competent person from
implementing control loops external to a DC controller that provide
quite comparable performance.
The only advantage that you have identified for your AC controller is
that you can communicate a new speed target/command to it via some
digital means that avoids the delay associated with manipulating the
throttle signal to achieve the same result. Any DC controller that
provides serial communications and can accept a throttle/speed command
via this interface provides the same advantage, as does any DC
controller that allows the throttle response delay to be configured to a
negligible amount. This is not an AC vs DC issue, but a controller
feature issue.
An interesting observation was made at a motor control seminar I
attended recently: field-oriented control of AC motors is intended to
allow AC motors to achieve the same controllability as sep-ex DC motors!
That is, FOC allows control of the AC motor in terms of two independent
variables, one (field current) controlling speed, and one (armature
current) controlling torque. The best your AC system can do is to match
the controllability of a sep-ex DC motor.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No problem. I designed a graphical LCD display for deep cycle
management some time ago. Mighty accurate shunt measurement. It would
work fine for EV too, but we'd need to add a bit of additional hardware
for tach sensors.
Now that was with a serial display, which can be made fairly large.
Outputting serial data to a Palm Pilot/laptop is straightforward. As
far as I know the best option would be to write a display program in
Java. Java is platform-independent so if well written, the same program
could display fine on a Cassiopia, Palm Pilot, Windows laptop, and Linux
laptop.
Danny
Rodney A wrote:
Hi
THis is actually quite an interesing discussion. Does anyone have any
ideas about how to do it digitally? I would love to use an LCD screen
to display speed, tacho, etc instead of guages. Any ideas about the
best way to do it??
Cheers
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have (4) Hawker 680's on an Etek powered scooter and have over 1500 miles
with no noticeable reduction in range.
Bob
paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"Is anyone using the current generation of these batteries?"
I have placed the order for these in my size (pc1200). My battery guy after
looking at the data about the etek and my controller with the size limits of my
honda M/C, said they will be the best bang for the buck. ($150e) The used ones
that he lent me are 10+ years old (telecom stand-by batts) and work fine for
testing. Range is only 4 miles @ 55 mph. I can draw 80 amps for 12 minutes (I
believe that new ones will give me 100a for 15 min.)
"I'd also be interested to know what kind of cycle life people are
getting, if
anyone's got that data."
Again, in theory, they should cycle 250 to 400 with a 80% dod and c/5 charge. I
like the pure lead-tin design. The steel jacket is good to being on a
motorcycle. (nasty rocks ya know!) Although in a car i wouldnt waste the few
extra pounds on each batt.
Hope that helps, Paul
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great!
Anyone have any idea about some existing applications? It would be great to
get rid of guages and use an LCD screen instead (with a small board and CPU
running linux for example). Especially if you could change the 'look', going
between analogue gauges on the LCD to digital numbers and change the layout
at will!
Rod
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:11:10 -0600
No problem. I designed a graphical LCD display for deep cycle management
some time ago. Mighty accurate shunt measurement. It would work fine for
EV too, but we'd need to add a bit of additional hardware for tach sensors.
Now that was with a serial display, which can be made fairly large.
Outputting serial data to a Palm Pilot/laptop is straightforward. As far as
I know the best option would be to write a display program in Java. Java is
platform-independent so if well written, the same program could display fine
on a Cassiopia, Palm Pilot, Windows laptop, and Linux laptop.
Danny
Rodney A wrote:
Hi
THis is actually quite an interesing discussion. Does anyone have any ideas
about how to do it digitally? I would love to use an LCD screen to display
speed, tacho, etc instead of guages. Any ideas about the best way to do
it??
Cheers
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, here we go again, but i have to post it!
EV's will never be popular even if they got 300+ miles to the charge.
Even if roadside charge stations took less time than fast food drive thru
(which would be a great place to have an in-ground charge paddles).
Even if the tires smoked every time the pedal was stomped, rocketing to 200
mph+.
People like IC engines. The industries that depend on gas-diesel-oils have
and will continue to shelf the development of the best batts, and motors,
controllers
Very few people will have the electric car. Fewer will have the drive to
build/buy one and use it the way it was intended.
Just my 2cents worth.
1983 electric honda interceptor
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have to disagree. It's all in the marketing. If the masses were told they
wanted electric cars they would buy them. After all, look at all the SUVs
out there. You don't really think people would buy them if they knew the
truth do you? It's simply because they look so good in the TV ad and the
fact that "Joe next door" has one.
Mark Grasser
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul wiley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 12:07 AM
Subject: RE: EV acceptance idea
Ok, here we go again, but i have to post it!
EV's will never be popular even if they got 300+ miles to the charge.
Even if roadside charge stations took less time than fast food drive thru
(which would be a great place to have an in-ground charge paddles).
Even if the tires smoked every time the pedal was stomped, rocketing to
200 mph+.
People like IC engines. The industries that depend on gas-diesel-oils
have and will continue to shelf the development of the best batts, and
motors, controllers
Very few people will have the electric car. Fewer will have the drive to
build/buy one and use it the way it was intended.
Just my 2cents worth.
1983 electric honda interceptor
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rodney A wrote:
Hi
THis is actually quite an interesing discussion. Does anyone have any
ideas about how to do it digitally? I would love to use an LCD screen
to display speed, tacho, etc instead of guages. Any ideas about the
best way to do it??
Cheers
Rod
Here are some of my efforts/thoughts so far:
http://www.evforge.net/photogallery.php?photo=11
http://www.evforge.net/photogallery.php?photo=14
This is for an *affordable* setup (defined as costing less then $150) -
as apposed to the $500 deals that are quite common out there :(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The issue you have in mind is that typical DC controllers,
such as the Curtis, have a throttle ramp delay built in,
and/or otherwise heavily
...
No, Roger, this isn't the issue at all. We can clarify off
line as I feel this topic begin to dominate bandwidth.
OK Roger. The difference is:
DC: raise the analog voltage on the throttle input while
watching resulting RPM. As RPM approach desirable speed
(takes time, it you do it too fast, you'll overshoot
*no matter what everyone says about PI/PD constants, you
MAY have absolute minimum time required to settle this
still unacceptable long for comfortable shift*)
slow down raising input voltage and watch for the slowing
shaft speed as it approaches desirable one. When that happened,
stop raising voltage on the throttle input, you're done.
To accelerate the process you may rail input voltage it in the
beginning but before motor reached desired speed reduce it.
Principle remains the same.
You can do exactly the same with AC system, no difference
at all.
If you need to slow down the motor and it is unloaded series
wound one, you have problem. Not with AC one. But, as some one
pointed out shunt DC motor does not have slowing down problem.
Fine.
But there is something else you can do in AC setup, let's take
synchronous motor for example. Since you know from the sensor
desirable shaft rotation, load the frequency (number) into a
CPU register so inverter start generating *that* frequency
in that very instant. Bang. Done. No loop back needed (though
will improve performance). No time needed for watching resulting
rotation speed and do PI/PD math/filtering to minimize settling
time.
No direct output frequency loading is possible with DC chopper
controller, this method is unavailable. This is the difference
difference I was referring to. So if advantage of this method
is taken, AC and DC machines response dynamics *are* different.
Now, powerful properly adjusted for transient response dynamics
DC setup with light enough rotor may well be adequate for shifting,
I don't debate that. It may be blindly fast. I'm saying PI/PD
processing and filtering if throttle input is controlled,
takes more time [than just loading a register], so all else
being equal (rotor mass) Synchronous motor response can be made
still shorter. Perhaps much shorter.
With induction motor it is more difficult because uncontrolled
slip allows mechanical overshoot and you must gradually ramp up
frequency to allow the rotor to follow. But the slip amount of
unloaded rotor is also known (approx) and can be compensated for
when loading desirable frequency.
Example for AC 4 pole synchronous machine:
If I want 3000 RPM I just load 100Hz frequency to be outputted
by inverter, no matter if current speed is higher or lower.
No wasting time to sense and gauge it.
That's it. No feed backs. I will have to load say 102Hz for
induction machine if I know my slip is 2%.
Done.
If I go from the throttle input (AC or DC, doesn't matter)
do I set it at 3,583995 volts and expect 3000 RPM that instant?
No way. The volts will be adjusted by PID controller but it is
comparing/adjusting/comparing/adjusting process (also filtering
involved, slowing things down. Again, with this method, AC
has no advantage vs. DC whatsoever).
Sure VERY fast process, especially with modern electronics.
Still directly loading desirable frequency without need
for feed back processing (synchronous machines) is far quicker.
Don't you agree?
I'm not asking if quick enough to do the job of shifting.
I'm asking if you agree that you can use frequency load
method which is fundamentally different way unavailable
for DC machines. If you agree, then DC and AC machines
*are* different in that respect.
Hope my point is clearer now.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Grasser wrote:
With the power removed from the motor the syncros in the transmission
can't spin the motor to the correct rpm and slip it into gear? The
armature can't have that much inertia!
You'd be surprised. Of course it can spin it up, but if you wait
more than a second or so for this it gets uncomfortable in heavy
traffic (if not dangerous at times).
My Porsche 928 transmission is in the rear of the car, the syncros have
to spin up the 5 foot solid drive shaft, four ball bearings and a pair
of clutch discs. Been doing it for 130,000 miles. What don't I get?
You don't get that the moment of inertia is proportional to the speed
and mass but it is square of the distance of that mass from the axle.
The drive shaft in your Porsche may be 5 foot long and heavy,
but it is skinny, 3 inches diameter perhaps? No mass concentrated
far away from the axis. Add a flywheel of on;y 1/5 of the mass of
your shaft but 2 feet diameter, and see how fast you can spin up
that setup.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
paul wiley wrote:
Ok, here we go again, but i have to post it!
EV's will never be popular even if they got 300+ miles to the charge.
Even if roadside charge stations took less time than fast food drive thru (which would be a great place to have an in-ground charge paddles).
Even if the tires smoked every time the pedal was stomped, rocketing to 200
mph+.
People like IC engines. The industries that depend on gas-diesel-oils have
and will continue to shelf the development of the best batts, and motors,
controllers
Very few people will have the electric car. Fewer will have the drive to
build/buy one and use it the way it was intended.
Just my 2cents worth.
1983 electric honda interceptor
May be correct until gasoline hits $100/gal or most of the gas
cars will be outlawed (say, for commuting) alltogether.
First scenario is more likely to happen sooner or later than the
second one. After that people can still keep liking IC engines.
Not using them, just liking them.
My 2mm.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, pessimism on a rather absolute level...
Well, they can enter the market when they really do become a less
expensive option for the average user. In that case, they may become
looked down on like a Geo Metro.
Or it could be a high end snobby thing. The Prius is so expensive it's
really questionable whether it makes financial sense to choose it. But
people still do, and with pride.
I see what you're saying in that it's hard to see it as generally loved
and seen as "manly". Know what it comes down to? They don't make a fun
noise. It's like the Prius adding a transmission "bump" the CVT
because people wanted to feel it. Now if they made an electric whir
like the pods in Star Wars Episode I, THEN people would go crazy for it.
Danny
*PS- not that I support Episode I or any of the other new Star Wars crap
jobs...
paul wiley wrote:
Ok, here we go again, but i have to post it!
EV's will never be popular even if they got 300+ miles to the charge.
Even if roadside charge stations took less time than fast food drive thru (which would be a great place to have an in-ground charge paddles).
Even if the tires smoked every time the pedal was stomped, rocketing to 200
mph+.
People like IC engines. The industries that depend on gas-diesel-oils have and
will continue to shelf the development of the best batts, and motors,
controllers
Very few people will have the electric car. Fewer will have the drive to
build/buy one and use it the way it was intended.
Just my 2cents worth.
1983 electric honda interceptor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Snicker... we've done 144 volts on a 36 volt pump motor.. at 1000+ amps and
7000 rpm.
Nope they don't Splode.... they melt...
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 10:51 AM
Subject: "The Motor Will Splode"
> Hi,
>
> I just got back from Warfield where they're reworking the Hyster 36V (7"
x 15") motor I got off ebay that I was told would be ok at 72V on the
Cushman. They're replacing the brushes, bearings cleaning up the commutator
and said they have to rewire the armature since it's shorted for $325 total.
Anyway the guy rewinding it said "the motor will splode" at 72V but he
couldn't rewind it for higher voltage operation. I've heard of folk's
running to 2x motor voltage but I've previously only ran 36V at 48V and a
48V motor at 60V. Has anyone ran for a long time a 36V "pump motor" at 72V
on a 1400lb vehicle without it "sploding"?
>
> Mark
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now say it like Scotty.
Danny
Rich Rudman wrote:
Snicker... we've done 144 volts on a 36 volt pump motor.. at 1000+ amps and
7000 rpm.
Nope they don't Splode.... they melt...
Madman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jimmy, Mark and All,
Good advice on the vehicle weighing Jimmy. I
weigh mine with bathroom scales and then put batt in,
calculate, but mine is light at 550 lbs before batts.
Mark, the weights you mentioned max ratings
per axle were just that, max weigh they will handle, not the
best for handling. If you load it that way it will be hard
to control at 35mph, much less 50mph and easily do wheelies
!!!!!!
As I said before have sightly more per wheel
on the front one one your type of 3wheeler or you will have
handling, turning problem, as you turn the wheel and it will
skid ahead instead of turning.
My Yahoo email account is apparently gone so
now have a new e mail if anyone wants to get ahold of me. I
also lost all my files as it was on their too.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Jimmy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: scale
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:56:00 -0800 (PST)
>Mark,
>There are many types of wheel scales available in the
>racing equipment market, almost all are electronic.
>The least expensive are not electronic but utilize
>bathroom type scales with a lever mechanism.
>Essentially it is a beam where one end sits on the
>scale the other end on the ground and a pivoting plate
>(where the tire rests)closer to the end on the ground.
> You then read the scale and use a multiplier to to
>calculate the actual weight at that wheel. You can
>buy 4 and put one under each wheel, or using one,
>raise all the other wheels on blocks equal to the
>height of the plate.
>Of course the more you use, the easier it is to weigh
>the vehicle.
>The one I bought years ago was from "Affordable Racing
>Scales" ($60.00).
>You can also look in racing magazines and see what is
>available. Of course you could always build your own.
>Good Luck,
>Jimmy
>
>>
>> > From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Subject: scale
>> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:48:04 -0500
>>
>> I was curious how to weigh each wheel on my Cushman
>> to get the 70-30% rear front 3-wheel split. I've
>> seen cops use some type of wheel scale. Can anyone
>> recommend a flat say 500lb+ scale to set the correct
>> ratio?
>> Thanks, Mark
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Make sure the tranny pump is ok or 240 volts and 12,000 rpm will make
it "ALMOSPLODE" or "SORTASPLODE"
It's nice to start the day with a good laugh. Thanks Mark
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 23:30:17 -0800
Subject: Re: "The Motor Will Splode"
Snicker... we've done 144 volts on a 36 volt pump motor.. at 1000+ amps
and
7000 rpm.
Nope they don't Splode.... they melt...
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 10:51 AM
Subject: "The Motor Will Splode"
Hi,
I just got back from Warfield where they're reworking the Hyster 36V
(7"
x 15") motor I got off ebay that I was told would be ok at 72V on the
Cushman. They're replacing the brushes, bearings cleaning up the
commutator
and said they have to rewire the armature since it's shorted for $325
total.
Anyway the guy rewinding it said "the motor will splode" at 72V but he
couldn't rewind it for higher voltage operation. I've heard of folk's
running to 2x motor voltage but I've previously only ran 36V at 48V and
a
48V motor at 60V. Has anyone ran for a long time a 36V "pump motor" at
72V
on a 1400lb vehicle without it "sploding"?
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks a bunch. I may "splode" some other things, but sounds like the motor
won't be one of them. I have a hall effect sensor on my uP MC68HC908QY4.
Have an EV Christmas.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: "The Motor Will Splode"
> Hey Mark
>
> I reshafted an armature for a guy on the list a while back who's using a
36 volt 15 inch pump (now drive) motor like you describe. He told me he was
running his motor at 120 volts and got 60 MPH in his Rabbit. 2X voltage
will be no problem and that motor should have plenty of mass to push your
project. The only thing that's gonna make your motor splode is too many
RPM's. Have them drill and tap out the C.E. shaft so you can install an RPM
sensor for added protection. 2X volts, hah, I got a motor looking at 5 X
voltage soon... now that one, I hope, don't splode ; )
> Hope this helped
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
> Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just got back from Warfield where they're reworking the Hyster 36V (7" x
15") motor I got off ebay that I was told would be ok at 72V on the Cushman.
They're replacing the brushes, bearings cleaning up the commutator and said
they have to rewire the armature since it's shorted for $325 total. Anyway
the guy rewinding it said "the motor will splode" at 72V but he couldn't
rewind it for higher voltage operation. I've heard of folk's running to 2x
motor voltage but I've previously only ran 36V at 48V and a 48V motor at
60V. Has anyone ran for a long time a 36V "pump motor" at 72V on a 1400lb
vehicle without it "sploding"?
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Calvin,
Just go to any battery WEB site to find there contacts either by Email or
phone. They will tell you what the closes distributor for that battery is. In
my case it was in the next state. I call the distributor and order the
batteries directly from them.
The batteries were ship right from Trojan directly to me in one week. The
batteries were only two weeks old from date of manufacture. The gave me a
phone number right to the tech department of Trojan, where I requested that I
want all new fresh batteries coming off the line in one order. They test the
voltage of each battery as it goes down the line, and I requested to send me
only the ones that are in with 0.001 volt of each other.
Today out of 30 batteries, there still 26 batteries that are still 0.001 volt
and four are about 0.002 volts in 3.5 years.
Also you can request to have different type of batteries post on the battery.
The best type is to used the standard taper post. Do not used the very low
profile post with studs. This is what I got which the head of the stud is just
only 1/8 inch below the surface. These will not withstand the recommended 75
inch lbs to be apply to them.
To reinforce these battery pads, I used a gold plated battery clamp from
Wirthco Engineering Inc. that put side pressure on this short pad. The battery
clamp has a through bolt where I can bolt the cable lug to. I now can torque
the battery connections to 10 ft lbs.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Calvin King<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: new btteries
Well it seems that it can't be avoided, I need new batteries. I had
my pack check with a load tester and the guy at Battery Source
indicated that 6 of the sixteen did not measure up. I was surprised
that 1 I was sure was bad was good and 3 I thought were good did not
pass the test.
Anyway no one local sells trojans. Has anyone used the Gold-pro 220
sold by Battery source. I have the choice of Sam's, Battery Source
or ordering them.
What to do?
Calvin King
81 Jet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a mono screen that someone was going to use for this type of display
on a dashboard for a charger (it never got used). It measures about 3.5" by
4" , if I remember correctly. Is something like this what you have in mind?
I might be interested in selling it if someone wants to play around with
it - I'd probably rather keep it and have it set up for my use, but... right
now, I could use the money!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodney A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
> Great!
>
> Anyone have any idea about some existing applications? It would be great
to
> get rid of guages and use an LCD screen instead (with a small board and
CPU
> running linux for example). Especially if you could change the 'look',
going
> between analogue gauges on the LCD to digital numbers and change the
layout
> at will!
>
> Rod
>
>
> From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:11:10 -0600
>
> No problem. I designed a graphical LCD display for deep cycle management
> some time ago. Mighty accurate shunt measurement. It would work fine for
> EV too, but we'd need to add a bit of additional hardware for tach
sensors.
>
> Now that was with a serial display, which can be made fairly large.
> Outputting serial data to a Palm Pilot/laptop is straightforward. As far
as
> I know the best option would be to write a display program in Java. Java
is
> platform-independent so if well written, the same program could display
fine
> on a Cassiopia, Palm Pilot, Windows laptop, and Linux laptop.
>
> Danny
>
> Rodney A wrote:
>
> >Hi
> >
> >THis is actually quite an interesing discussion. Does anyone have any
ideas
> >about how to do it digitally? I would love to use an LCD screen to
display
> >speed, tacho, etc instead of guages. Any ideas about the best way to do
> >it??
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Rod
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
paul wiley writes:
>
> People like IC engines. The industries that depend on gas-diesel-oils
> have and will continue to shelf the development of the best batts, and
> motors, controllers
I'm sure there are some people that do like the sound/noise from the
ICE, but since many car ads seem to emphasize how quiet the interior
is, I have to assume that most people don't like the noise.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do all of the above (er .. below?) and then set gas prices at $4 / gallon.
paul wiley wrote:
Ok, here we go again, but i have to post it!
EV's will never be popular even if they got 300+ miles to the charge.
Even if roadside charge stations took less time than fast food drive thru (which would be a great place to have an in-ground charge paddles).
Even if the tires smoked every time the pedal was stomped, rocketing to 200
mph+.
People like IC engines. The industries that depend on gas-diesel-oils have and
will continue to shelf the development of the best batts, and motors,
controllers
Very few people will have the electric car. Fewer will have the drive to
build/buy one and use it the way it was intended.
Just my 2cents worth. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/12/motorcycles_emi.html
1983 electric honda interceptor
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Two things:
1) With motorcycles, you can shift without clutching. I don't recommend
it, but it certainly can be done quite easily. I assume it's because
the inertial mass of the motor/flywheel was relatively low. I had a
friend who got of his bike and forgot to put the kick stand down (no,
really). He broke off the clutch handle, but that didn't stop him from
riding. He'd put it in neutral at the lights and rev it up really high
before stomping it into first.
2) Automatic transmissions operate clutchlessly. With electric,
elimiinate the torque converter and connect directly. When shifting (not
speculating on how you determine when to shift), you might need a
dropout signal to the controller to shift, like the Raptor controllers have.
Roger Stockton wrote:
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
8< ---------- snip ---------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>If you need to slow down the motor and it is unloaded series wound one, you
>have problem.
Victor, I don't know much about this stuff, but how about a low-ohm variable
resistor or transistor connected across the armature? Normally, it's open,
but when you want to slow the motor, you close it.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Speaking of new batteries , the new excides 6 v golf cart batteries I got
don't quite seem up to par compared to the one's I got 5 years ago . I'm
seeing more of a voltage drop , . My set up with two string of 120v means
I'm only pulling 75 amp out of each one when truck is using 150 , these guys
should be very happy , but after pulling out 200 ah , which would only be
100 per string , I'm seeing a lower voltage than what I would see with one
string of the older bats. , maybe just the cold , not broken it yet , . or
is it just a bug Jerry D put in my ear:-) , How did he know this . I
remember my first set of excides maybe 7 years ago , I though they where
better that the ones I got at Sam's ( don't remember there name ) .
do the trojan have the smaller post , ?
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: new btteries
Hello Calvin,
Just go to any battery WEB site to find there contacts either by Email or
phone. They will tell you what the closes distributor for that battery
is. In my case it was in the next state. I call the distributor and
order the batteries directly from them.
The batteries were ship right from Trojan directly to me in one week. The
batteries were only two weeks old from date of manufacture. The gave me a
phone number right to the tech department of Trojan, where I requested
that I want all new fresh batteries coming off the line in one order.
They test the voltage of each battery as it goes down the line, and I
requested to send me only the ones that are in with 0.001 volt of each
other.
Today out of 30 batteries, there still 26 batteries that are still 0.001
volt and four are about 0.002 volts in 3.5 years.
Also you can request to have different type of batteries post on the
battery. The best type is to used the standard taper post. Do not used
the very low profile post with studs. This is what I got which the head
of the stud is just only 1/8 inch below the surface. These will not
withstand the recommended 75 inch lbs to be apply to them.
To reinforce these battery pads, I used a gold plated battery clamp from
Wirthco Engineering Inc. that put side pressure on this short pad. The
battery clamp has a through bolt where I can bolt the cable lug to. I now
can torque the battery connections to 10 ft lbs.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Calvin King<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: new btteries
Well it seems that it can't be avoided, I need new batteries. I had
my pack check with a load tester and the guy at Battery Source
indicated that 6 of the sixteen did not measure up. I was surprised
that 1 I was sure was bad was good and 3 I thought were good did not
pass the test.
Anyway no one local sells trojans. Has anyone used the Gold-pro 220
sold by Battery source. I have the choice of Sam's, Battery Source
or ordering them.
What to do?
Calvin King
81 Jet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just got a quote from SAFT for their 6volt Nicad wet cells.....
£250+tax+del for each battery. So for a 36 battery set up that would cost
nearly £11000. ($20,000). Is it any wonder we are stuck using Pb............
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: new btteries
> Speaking of new batteries , the new excides 6 v golf cart batteries I got
> don't quite seem up to par compared to the one's I got 5 years ago . I'm
> seeing more of a voltage drop , . My set up with two string of 120v means
> I'm only pulling 75 amp out of each one when truck is using 150 , these
guys
> should be very happy , but after pulling out 200 ah , which would only be
> 100 per string , I'm seeing a lower voltage than what I would see with one
> string of the older bats. , maybe just the cold , not broken it yet , . or
> is it just a bug Jerry D put in my ear:-) , How did he know this . I
> remember my first set of excides maybe 7 years ago , I though they where
> better that the ones I got at Sam's ( don't remember there name ) .
> do the trojan have the smaller post , ?
> Steve Clunn
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:54 AM
> Subject: Re: new btteries
>
>
> > Hello Calvin,
> >
> > Just go to any battery WEB site to find there contacts either by Email
or
> > phone. They will tell you what the closes distributor for that battery
> > is. In my case it was in the next state. I call the distributor and
> > order the batteries directly from them.
> >
> > The batteries were ship right from Trojan directly to me in one week.
The
> > batteries were only two weeks old from date of manufacture. The gave me
a
> > phone number right to the tech department of Trojan, where I requested
> > that I want all new fresh batteries coming off the line in one order.
> > They test the voltage of each battery as it goes down the line, and I
> > requested to send me only the ones that are in with 0.001 volt of each
> > other.
> >
> > Today out of 30 batteries, there still 26 batteries that are still 0.001
> > volt and four are about 0.002 volts in 3.5 years.
> >
> > Also you can request to have different type of batteries post on the
> > battery. The best type is to used the standard taper post. Do not used
> > the very low profile post with studs. This is what I got which the head
> > of the stud is just only 1/8 inch below the surface. These will not
> > withstand the recommended 75 inch lbs to be apply to them.
> >
> > To reinforce these battery pads, I used a gold plated battery clamp from
> > Wirthco Engineering Inc. that put side pressure on this short pad. The
> > battery clamp has a through bolt where I can bolt the cable lug to. I
now
> > can torque the battery connections to 10 ft lbs.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Calvin King<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: new btteries
> >
> >
> > Well it seems that it can't be avoided, I need new batteries. I had
> > my pack check with a load tester and the guy at Battery Source
> > indicated that 6 of the sixteen did not measure up. I was surprised
> > that 1 I was sure was bad was good and 3 I thought were good did not
> > pass the test.
> > Anyway no one local sells trojans. Has anyone used the Gold-pro 220
> > sold by Battery source. I have the choice of Sam's, Battery Source
> > or ordering them.
> > What to do?
> > Calvin King
> > 81 Jet
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
