EV Digest 5015
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: MIG welding w/Silicon Bronze wire
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Clutchless shift - clarifying Powerglide gears
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Vibration Isolation
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Clutchless shift - clarifying Powerglide gears
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: generator to power TAL inductive charger?
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Clutchless shift - clarifying
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: scale, 3wh stability and my NEW Email address !!
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV acceptance idea
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: EV acceptance idea
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Vs: Re: Cooling in cold climate
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV acceptance idea
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV acceptance idea
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) How to Unsubscribe
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
by "Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: EV acceptance idea
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Clutchless shift - clarifying
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Capacitors
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
What type is it? Onboard controller?
Danny
Joe Strubhar wrote:
I have a mono screen that someone was going to use for this type of display
on a dashboard for a charger (it never got used). It measures about 3.5" by
4" , if I remember correctly. Is something like this what you have in mind?
I might be interested in selling it if someone wants to play around with
it - I'd probably rather keep it and have it set up for my use, but... right
now, I could use the money!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As you're aware, the problem you're trying to solve is how to melt both
the thicker steel and the sheet metal, without vaporizing one and
underheating the other. The proposed solution is to avoid melting either
one -- with silicon bronze, you're brazing, not welding.
So it makes sense that this material will melt with a lot less energy than
steel wire, meaning lower current and higher feed to keep it in control. I
have not done this, but I'm going to guess that the only way to slow down
wire feed would be with a large proportional reduction in current, which
may not be practical while maintaining an arc. Alternatively, you could
try reducing the thickness of the wire you're using.
I think that the real solution is to use oxyacetylene or TIG welding,
where the heat source and the weld material are separate. This would allow
you (especially with the vastly higher precision and heat control of TIG)
to heat the thicker material more directly so they melt together. In
practice I've used a MIG gun with steel wire, aiming more at the thick
piece than the thin, but this solution seems to become less effective with
increasing difference in thickness.
--chris
On Wed, December 21, 2005 2:18 pm, Richard Rau said:
> OK folks....the welding industry isn't helping much on this one.
> Apparently
> it's a rare thing to use SiB wire when MIG welding steel. (wire size
> .025"
> / 100% argon)
> A few weeks ago on this list I read a post from someone who recommended
> using SiB wire to join thicker steel sections to the thin unibody sheet
> (battery box work). Sorry I lost your post.
> I've been practicing with SiB and have found that the machine settings
> that
> provide a decent fillet are TOTALLY different than what would work well
> with
> steel wire. Low voltage and high wire speed seem to do it, but this lays
> the filler in at highway speed only. NOW, I want to turn things down a
> bit
> so I can run a smaller controlled SiB bead...something that is easy to do
> when squirting steel wire.
> Does anyone out there know if this is possible??
> My 228V Honda wannabe awaits your feedback. Thanks
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.2/208 - Release Date: 12/20/2005
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and All,
If you really want to do something good,
develope a 2 speed overdrive type based on the powerglide
gears. I'm sure many would like such a unit if you could
keep it under $1k. If you can get neutral, even ICE's racers
might want it.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
T>
>I've been thinking about this for some time with regards to
>a homemade 2 or 3 speed dog-type (motorcycle type) gearbox
>I'm contemplating building. This type of box can be
>shifted on the fly but the drivetrain impact is severe with
>the rotating and vehicle masses involved. Since I would
>most likely use motorcycle gearbox parts, I can make the
>whole thing automatic or semi-automatic (pushbutton shift)
>if I like with little effort.
>
>John
>---
>John De Armond
>See my website for my current email address
>http://www.johngsbbq.com
>Cleveland, Occupied TN
>A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little
>minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is it necessary to have vibration isolation mounts on an EV motor? Does it
transmit road noise into the cabin or cause any odd frequencies to be
resonated throughout the vehicle? What do the professional built cars do
(Sunrise, EV1, Tango)?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's just not possible, at least for a commercial unit to be sold to
others on the small scale involved. Besides, that style transmission
is just too Lossey for ordinary street EVs, IMHO. A couple HP of loss
isn't much to a gas engine but it is to an EV. The dog type
transmission is the lowest loss type I know of, one reason it's used
on motorcycles and high end race cars.
What I have in mind is a small 2 or 3 speed transmission made from
motorcycle gears and shafts. Cut the shafts down to eliminate the
extra gears, then mount the whole affair in a one piece cast aluminum
(or CNC machined billet aluminum for the prototype) case.
Aside from the low loss and high strength, a motorcycle-based box has
the added advantage of there being a wide range of gears available in
the aftermarket for the more popular engines. For the typical low
budget street EV, the stock gears would work fine and could be
harvested from a junkyard. For high performance, racing parts could
be purchased from the aftermarket.
Though not in the price range you want, an aux overdrive unit (Gear
Vendors, etc) would probably do the job. Small enough to bolt
directly to the motor and strong enough for motorhome service. Though
I haven't tested one, I'm told that they're fairly low loss too.
This is a simple and small planetary set.
John
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:58:58 -0500, "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi John and All,
> If you really want to do something good,
>develope a 2 speed overdrive type based on the powerglide
>gears. I'm sure many would like such a unit if you could
>keep it under $1k. If you can get neutral, even ICE's racers
>might want it.
> Thanks,
> Jerry Dycus
>
>----- Original Message Follows -----
>From: Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>T>
>>I've been thinking about this for some time with regards to
>>a homemade 2 or 3 speed dog-type (motorcycle type) gearbox
>>I'm contemplating building. This type of box can be
>>shifted on the fly but the drivetrain impact is severe with
>>the rotating and vehicle masses involved. Since I would
>>most likely use motorcycle gearbox parts, I can make the
>>whole thing automatic or semi-automatic (pushbutton shift)
>>if I like with little effort.
>>
>>John
>>---
>>John De Armond
>>See my website for my current email address
>>http://www.johngsbbq.com
>>Cleveland, Occupied TN
>>A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little
>>minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lister CS engines turn up fairly regularly on ebay. You're well placed for a
bargain, few people will travel to Scotland to collect. In my case my huge
genset arrived on a pallet for £45. A new Indian Listeroid would set you
back about £800.
P.S. Lister engines do not run on Listerine.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: generator to power TAL inductive charger?
Hah, I have a start-o-matic lister set too, a more modern looking
single cylinder air cooled one, only intended for lighting at about
1.2kW though if I remember rightly.
A bigger watercooled version (CHP to heat the house), running on
un-refined waste vegetable oil to charge an EV would be pretty neat..
one day..
Great smell when you fire them up on diesel though, isn't it! :)
Regards
Evan
On 12/19/05, Paul Compton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ideal engine for the job; http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/lister.html
I have an original single cylinder version;
http://www.powercubes.com/listers_3.html
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 6:34 AM
Subject: generator to power TAL inductive charger?
> In the aftermath of hurricane Wilma this fall, our local grid was down
> for
> a
> week and a half, during which time we had no way to charge our two
> RAV4-EVs
> and had to go back to driving our old Honda Civic, which now only
> serves
> as
> a standby back-up for just such kinds of emergency needs. Last year
> the
> grid was down for two 1-week periods after hurricanes Francis and
> Jeanne,
> so
> this has unfortunately become an annual ordeal. I am looking to buy a
> portable diesel generator to use for powering a few essential household
> circuits (e.g. refrigerator, a few lights, and hopefully even one of
> our
> two
> 19.5-SEER CAC units) plus also for powering the TAL inductive charger
> (although when using the TAL, that would be the *only* circuit
> connnected
> to
> the generator, i.e. everything else would be turned off and
> disconnected).
> The reason I want to use a diesel generator and not a gasoline
> generator
> is
> two-fold. First, it would allow me to use a renewable fuel -- B100
> biodiesel, as opposed to non-renewable gasoline, which is something
> that
> we
> are purposely trying to move away from and minimize in our lives.
> Second,
> I
> don't really have any good place to store a large amount of (smelly,
> volatile, and dangerous, especially in 95 degree heat) gasoline on my
> property for an extended period of 4-6 months, which is how long our
> hurricane season runs here. But I can definitely store B100 biodiesel
> [which of course is just trans-esterified (i.e. thinned-out) vegetable
> oil]
> in 55-gallon drums inside our air-conditioned garage studio. Two
> 55-gallon
> drums would likely power all of our essential needs for about 8 days or
> so.
>
> In a quick internet search, I found the following two 6.5kW portable
> diesel
> generators:
> (or semi-portable, I guess I should say, as these things weigh around
> 520
> lbs., so I'm not sure how easy they are to push around, even on the
> wheel
> kits that come with them as accessories, which kind of begs the
> question
> of
> how would I even be able to lift them up and turn them over to install
> the
> wheel kit on them in the first place)
>
> Kubota GL7000
> http://generator.kubota.jp/gl/gl_7000_usa.html
>
> Yamaha EDL6500S
> www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/products/modelhome/452/0/home.aspx
>
> Both of these generators have 4-stroke, 2 cylinder, liquid-cooled
> diesel
> engines, and both have a maximum continuous output rating of 27.1A at
> 240V.
> If I'm not mistaken, I believe the TAL draws a continuous 27A. So my
> question is: would these generators be able to power the TAL, or would
> 27.1A not provide enough headroom (at only 0.1A) above the 27A that the
> TAL
> needs to be able to run?
>
> I temporarily ran the TAL off of my 30A dryer circuit without any
> problems
> for the first month that I had it until I got a new 40A, 240V circuit
> installed, so I know that as little as 3A is enough headroom for it to
> run
> OK, but 0.1A leaves me wondering and somewhat doubtful. Anyone know?
>
> Or would I need to move up to Kubota's next highest model, which is the
> 10kW
> GL11000 that has a maximum continuous output rating of 41.7A at 240V?
> (and is even heavier at 650 lbs!)
> http://generator.kubota.jp/gl/gl_11000_usa.html
>
> (Yamaha doesn't have a higher output model above its 6.5kW diesel
> generator.)
>
> Does anyone have any experience with either Kubota or Yamaha diesel
> generators and/or know anything about their quality and reliability?
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> Charles Whalen
> Delray Beach, Florida
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Still directly loading desirable frequency without need
> for feed back processing (synchronous machines) is far
> quicker. Don't you agree?
No, I don't. I agree that it *might* be quicker, but not that it is
guaranteed to be quicker, or "far quicker".
Ultimately, either machine can only change speed at a certain rate which
is limited by the physics of the problem, completely independent of the
control mechanism. Directly loading the desired speed/frequency is
certainly a far quicker way to reach the final speed command value, but
that does not mean that the motor is going to reach the desired speed
far more quickly than any other control approach.
Indeed, given that the AC motors tend to support higher RPM operation
than the DC motors, it could be that it takes the AC motor longer to
change speed for a shift since it may be wound out in low gear and then
have to drop 6000RPM to shift into high gear, while a DC machine limited
to perhjaps 6500RPM max might only have to change 3000RPM between gears
(assuming two relatively widely spaced gears). The AC motor might
achieve this 6000RPM change more quickly than the DC motor could, but
not more quickly than the DC motor can change the 3000RPM it actually
needs to.
> I'm not asking if quick enough to do the job of shifting.
> I'm asking if you agree that you can use frequency load
> method which is fundamentally different way unavailable
> for DC machines. If you agree, then DC and AC machines
> *are* different in that respect.
Yes, I agree that the ability to compute the final target speed command
and load it directly into the controller is different than a control
loop that continuously adjusts the speed command until the desired speed
is attained, however, I do not agree that this is a difference between
AC and DC machines. A sep-ex DC machine can also be commanded to a
desired speed with sufficient accuracy to allow the synchros to finish
the job just fine. I do not believe it is impossible to achieve much
the same result with a series machine, although I agree that the task of
computing the motor command to achieve a target speed is more
challenging than the AC or sep-ex DC cases.
While you are not asking if the DC case can be fast enough to allow
shifting, that is ultimately all that matters in the context of this
discussion. Even if the DC feedback case is slower than the fastest AC
system it makes absolutely no practical difference if the DC case is
fast enough to allow shifting as quickly as the user is capable of.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: scale, 3wh stability and my NEW Email address
!!
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:44:16 -0500
>Thanks, I checked with a Cushman guru at Werres Corp in
>Frederick Md "last of the brain trust at Cushman before
>assimilated by Textron" and he comfirmed what I surmised,
>that at EVS-14 Orlando 99' where the batteries were mounted
>in a neat pack (I have photos) between the cab & rear axle,
>they later modified due to a little falling over thingy.
Details !!! I was wondering with 12 batts that way
and I did suggest that 2 go behind the axle.
I'd put the batts in the cushman cabin above where
you think they sould go and weigh it with you on board. If
off move the batts until close to 36-40% on the front wheel.
I'd bet with 12 batts in front of the axle, it was more like
50% on the front wheel with the driver. Not good for staying
upright. You may need 3 or 4 in the rear. But remember
sometimes you will have cargo there which is another reason
to have slightly more weight on the front wheel.
Done right it should handle fairly well, especially
if the batts are low. My trikes do.
If using bath scale and levers, make sure you use
dowels or triangles on both ends to transfer the weight so
you can get an exact distance or the bend in the lever may
move the contact point to the edge, throwing the measurement
off. Use a plate of thich ply or 2x6 across the scale to put
the dowel on so the weight is evenly on it. And have all
wheels at the same height, level. It's a pain but well worth
it, especially if your kid will drive it.
Happy Solstice,
Jerry Dycus
>Two are now mounted behind the rear axle and the other 10
>are straddled on either side of the (sploding) motor 5" off
>the ground and now handles better than the ICE. I'll have
>to check the ratio and see if it's 30-70 (on the Cushman
>GVW plate) or 40-60 (like Jerry suggested) with a 2x4 (not
>upside my head) for cantileavering with one end on the
>concrete & the other on a scale with the tire at midpoint
>so I'll multiply the scale by X2. My start weight is
>1400lbs with 500lbs of engine/tranny removed and 700lbs of
>lead floodees added with a 100lb Hyster (Schafe I think)
>sploding motor. Have an EV Christmas (I will)
>Mark
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 5:23 AM
>Subject: scale, 3wh stability and my NEW Email address !!
>
>
>>
>> Hi Jimmy, Mark and All,
>> Good advice on the vehicle weighing
>> Jimmy. I weigh mine with bathroom scales and then put
>> batt in, calculate, but mine is light at 550 lbs before
>> batts. Mark, the weights you mentioned
>> max ratings per axle were just that, max weigh they will
>> handle, not the best for handling. If you load it that
>> way it will be hard to control at 35mph, much less 50mph
>> and easily do wheelies !!!!!!
>> As I said before have sightly more per
>> wheel on the front one one your type of 3wheeler or you
>> will have handling, turning problem, as you turn the
>> wheel and it will skid ahead instead of turning.
>> My Yahoo email account is apparently gone
>> so now have a new e mail if anyone wants to get ahold of
>> me. I also lost all my files as it was on their too.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jerry Dycus
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message Follows -----
>> From: Jimmy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: scale
>> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:56:00 -0800 (PST)
>>
>> >Mark,
>> >There are many types of wheel scales available in the
>> >racing equipment market, almost all are electronic.
>> >The least expensive are not electronic but utilize
>> >bathroom type scales with a lever mechanism.
>> >Essentially it is a beam where one end sits on the
>> >scale the other end on the ground and a pivoting plate
>> >(where the tire rests)closer to the end on the ground.
>> > You then read the scale and use a multiplier to to
>> >calculate the actual weight at that wheel. You can
>> >buy 4 and put one under each wheel, or using one,
>> >raise all the other wheels on blocks equal to the
>> >height of the plate.
>> >Of course the more you use, the easier it is to weigh
>> >the vehicle.
>> >The one I bought years ago was from "Affordable Racing
>> >Scales" ($60.00).
>> >You can also look in racing magazines and see what is
>> >available. Of course you could always build your own.
>> >Good Luck,
>> >Jimmy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 12/20/2005 9:26:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<<<I have to disagree. It's all in the marketing. If the masses were told
they
wanted electric cars they would buy them. >>>
I've heard this same sentiment for years, and I just don't agree. First of
all, the 'masses' don't have the choice of going to their local dealer and
buying an EV, and if they did, I'm sure they would avoid it like the plague
unless they were considerably cheaper to operate and just as useful as their
ice
counterpart.
<<<After all, look at all the SUVs out there. You don't really think people
would buy them if they knew the truth do you? It's simply because they look
so good in the TV ad and the
fact that "Joe next door" has one.>>>
Yes, I do.
It's simplistic to think that people only buy SUV's because of the adds.
As a proud member of the 'masses', I have 3 kids and 3 grand kids that need
to be shuttled to doctors, soccer, school, music lessons, court (yikes!) etc.
That means that I need an 8 passenger vehicle get on with my life. How do you
propose that I do that with an EV??
That is not to say that there aren't folks who buy and drive SUV's because
they are cool, but even those who do haven't broken any laws or done anything
patently immoral. They drive the nicest thing that they can afford, and
affordability is, to me, the key.
Nobody I know was terribly bothered when gas hit $3.25 a while back, and
neither was I. It was a minor inconvenience. For EV's to have any kind of role
in the maketplace, they will either need to be mandated (and we all know how
well that worked in California) or they will need to a cheaper alternative. I
don't believe we will see any significant progress until gas goes way over $5
a gallon.
Blather on all you wish about the evil oil companies, the evil carmakers or
whatever else is the conspiracy-du-jour, but this is the reality of our
situation.... in my humble opinion.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's simplistic to think that people only buy SUV's because of the adds.
As a proud member of the 'masses', I have 3 kids and 3 grand kids that need
to be shuttled to doctors, soccer, school, music lessons, court (yikes!) etc.
That means that I need an 8 passenger vehicle get on with my life. How do you
propose that I do that with an EV??
That is not to say that there aren't folks who buy and drive SUV's because
they are cool, but even those who do haven't broken any laws or done anything
patently immoral. They drive the nicest thing that they can afford, and
affordability is, to me, the key.
Nobody I know was terribly bothered when gas hit $3.25 a while back, and
neither was I. It was a minor inconvenience. For EV's to have any kind of role
in the maketplace, they will either need to be mandated (and we all know how
well that worked in California) or they will need to a cheaper alternative. I
don't believe we will see any significant progress until gas goes way over $5
a gallon.
Blather on all you wish about the evil oil companies, the evil carmakers or
whatever else is the conspiracy-du-jour, but this is the reality of our
situation.... in my humble opinion.
Ben
I have always considered EVs to be a "second car" for most people in the
near future. One is certainly going to be replacing my current "second
car". This is the car I use to commute to work in, not carry the kids
around town in. I am just tired of the constant replacement of small
(sometimes pricey) items on an older ICE car, plus the fact that they
get *less* reliable as time goes by. And buying a new/slightly used
$$$!!! car for such low mileage/one-or-two passenger duty is insanely
ridiculous. Not stopping at a gas station while on the way to work is
also a big plus for me with the heavy traffic here (wait five-ten
minutes just to turn right onto most major roads during rush hour). With
the cheap electricity we enjoy here in the NW, most EVs are less
expensive to operate by a good margin (including the battery pack price
amortized over its lifetime). So it's win-win-win for me ;)
Now am I trapped in some bizarre alternate reality, or is that logic
applicable to many more people out there?
You are talking about EVs being bought *instead* of ICE cars for a
families primary vehicle. I agree, that is not usually realistic right
now. But most households in this country do own more than one car... I
believe EVs can successfully *augment* ICE cars for a large number of
people, replacing most of those second and third cars found in so many
urban/suburban driveways.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I suspect both. At -5'C rolling resistance of studded tires
on a packed snow or even asphalt is probably higher than for smooth
tires. How much higher can be easily measured (spring scale pull test).
But from +5'C to -5'C is quite a change for the batteries too, so they
have less capacity (aside more per mile consumption due to the tires).
Again, this can be measured as well.
Victor
Seppo wrote:
Hello Evan
I had quite a large efffect on range when I changed from old worn-out
summer tires to brand-new spiked winter tires. I had expected some
change but was surprised to see that I got 20% reduction in range.
Simultaneously the temperature dropped 10 degrees C from +5 to -5 so I
don't know if the main reason was the temperature change or the new tires.
Seppo
Evan Tuer kirjoitti 20.12.2005 kello 15.46:
Hi Seppo,
My range suffers a little bit with temperatures <0 degrees C. But my
battery is quite old and high milage so maybe that's why.
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's simplistic to think that people only buy SUV's because of the
adds. As a proud member of the 'masses', I have 3 kids and 3 grand
kids that need to be shuttled to doctors, soccer, school, music
lessons, court (yikes!) etc. That means that I need an 8 passenger
vehicle get on with my life. How do you propose that I do that with
an EV??
Sorry about the double-post, but here is the automakers' own views on
what drives SUV sales as part of a "New Yorker" article:
http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html
Very good reading. You might want to consider a Mini-Van next time you
"upgrade" your families primary car. For their sake, that is.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-One real advantage on EVs is the smooth torque while accelerating. No
jerking from transmission and gear shifting.
-Ev starts nearly always. I've driven with many different cars and my
EVs are absolutely the most relyable mean of transport I have. (Scooter
worked today nicely too while I drove it 10 miles back home (It's -15 C
(5 F) out there now. maaan I was iced. Lithium batteries had no trouble
in such weather)
-Driving a real 150 EV-miles a day. Passing ICEs on higway. Coming home
with grosaries. Plug it in. Eat the fresh muffin you picked up from the
way back home. Forget pumping gas. forever. THAT is freedom. And how you
get fat...
-Advanced batteries WILL come down to promised level. 1/2 of the diesel
car cost can be met already 2006. Break even point will be 60000 miles.
Within countries which aid EVs it is even less.
-Already you can charge Lion car in 5 minutes (=30-40 miles worth of
energy). Guestion is how much you will need to charge. 150 miles is
already long driving. EVs are not going to replace ICEs which are droven
200 000 miles / year. This 0,1 % of car population can stay in roads..
for now.
-Regen function has been the MOST praised fuction among lady drivers.
"you just need to wave one pedal. No shifting gears. Not even brake
pedal needed. Motor never stops on crossection when green lits"
-In Norway there is few hundred people on WAITING LISTS to get their own
EV. With Ni-Cd batteries. Why ? They have oil to even spill around.
Would it be that millions of people would actually like to have the
choice. Are they feeling responsibility on enviroment issues?
-Jukka
fevt.com
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Do all of the above (er .. below?) and then set gas prices at $4 / gallon.
paul wiley wrote:
Ok, here we go again, but i have to post it!
EV's will never be popular even if they got 300+ miles to the charge.
Even if roadside charge stations took less time than fast food drive
thru (which would be a great place to have an in-ground charge paddles).
Even if the tires smoked every time the pedal was stomped, rocketing
to 200 mph+.
People like IC engines. The industries that depend on gas-diesel-oils
have and will continue to shelf the development of the best batts, and
motors, controllers
Very few people will have the electric car. Fewer will have the drive
to build/buy one and use it the way it was intended.
Just my 2cents worth.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/12/motorcycles_emi.html
1983 electric honda interceptor
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Yeah I agree this would be great, if a few people could get together and
work out how to do it! I would personally love a system that could show all
the relevent driver info (speed, tacho, battery % charge, range, emergency
warnings, etc) and I think an LCD display that could be changeable with
different skins (different colour and types of guages, digial and analogue
looking displays, etc) would be great!
:-)
Rod
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Wednesday, 21 December 2005 9:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
Wouldn't be too hard to do. Maybe this can be an "open source" project for
the evforge web site. Write it in java, use swing/awt for the graphics.
Make it so it can run on Windows, Linux or a Palm with a JVM.
So what would the UI look like? The emeter has Ah, Volts, % charge,
current, ... It updates once a second.
1) a line graph?
2) an "analog type" fuel gauge?
3) a couple gauges: % charge, volts, amps - maybe displayed bar or by analog
meter.
4) have different "skins" so that it can look cool in everybody's car.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: December 20, 2005 2:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
How about the brains in the group writing a program that allows an E-Meter
to output data to a laptop. (Like the EV1 for palm application!) The laptop
(in my mind a pc "brick" with an indash LCD running said software displaying
the appropriate data on screen real time (I'm thinking small screen on my
dash!) giving a larger display to the operator for charge level, amps used,
miles left, KW etc. Typical data a general auto driver would need to operate
their vehicle. This software could act as a data logger providing a running
tally on charge states etc. Now if the brains could write this as open code
allowing for other brains to make additions for their own use I think it
would be great.
Me, I'd be willing to pay for the ability to see graphicly the data about my
battery pack in a simple fashion. I am installing the Link 10 replacing the
pitiful meter in my Alfa truck. We are building a flat bed for it now and
will be using 20 6vt batteries for 120vt power. (Verdict is out about the
battery brand use and I'm open to everyone's input)I've been following both
the battery threads and the charger threads.
Pedroman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stefan Peters
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 1:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: A Dumb Old Laptop Can Be Pretty Slick Tool
> You can't do it with an E-meter without adding hardware though. For
> one
thing, the E-meter doesn't have a slave/polled mode.
Yeah, I downloaded a manual and saw that...:(
> Also RS-232 doesn't spec tri-state outputs so you'd probably have to
> add
hardware to most devices to keep them from holding the bus at a constant
high/low state.
Just saying it could be done. The interface chips I typically use float when
you bring the _"Enable Out" pin high (off). This effectively takes them off
the TX line.
> If you are going to have to put in the code to handle ASCII for one
> use
(reporting), how is it more efficiency to add MORE code to talk in binary to
something else? It certainly doesn't save memory space. It might save
processing power, but I can't think of anything in an EV that would push
even cheap micros to their limits.
You bring up a good point. The efficiency is due to NOT executing a good
chunk of code (especially while handling an interrupt) while communicating
important operational data. When you are talking about a device simply
saying "This is the average of my last 100 measurements" once a sec or so,
I would definitely call this a logging/reporting application. I was talking
about two micros passing information to be used to operate the vehicle. But
as you said, there is currently no such use of micros in a typical EV
conversion.
(bummer, maybe it's about time... I bet we could see some range
improvement/robustness from a conversion using a well thought out vehicle
management system that integrates BMS, motor monitoring (temp, RPM, EMF),
and realtime controller parameter changes)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EV as second or commuting car make sense for me. For hauling kids
(three of ours plus others) to Band, Orchestra, Scouts, or Road Trips we
have the big E150 extend top van that gets a wonderful 17 MPG. Of
course, I suppose if you look at mileage per year the van is second car
as we usually put around 5000 miles per year on the van, and I put about
16,000 per year on the electric civic.
I wouldn't want to go on a family road trip in a civic (electric or
gas!)
I wouldn't drive the E150 to work every day (5 gallons of gas a day, and
a pain to park).
Pick the right tool for the job.
Lynn
52,000 electric miles, 10,000 on the T890's, and running strong in -7F
weather.
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stefan T. Peters
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 3:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV acceptance idea
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> It's simplistic to think that people only buy SUV's because of the
adds.
> As a proud member of the 'masses', I have 3 kids and 3 grand kids that
> need to be shuttled to doctors, soccer, school, music lessons, court
(yikes!) etc.
> That means that I need an 8 passenger vehicle get on with my life. How
> do you propose that I do that with an EV??
> That is not to say that there aren't folks who buy and drive SUV's
> because they are cool, but even those who do haven't broken any laws
> or done anything patently immoral. They drive the nicest thing that
> they can afford, and affordability is, to me, the key.
> Nobody I know was terribly bothered when gas hit $3.25 a while back,
> and neither was I. It was a minor inconvenience. For EV's to have any
> kind of role in the maketplace, they will either need to be mandated
> (and we all know how well that worked in California) or they will need
> to a cheaper alternative. I don't believe we will see any significant
> progress until gas goes way over $5 a gallon.
> Blather on all you wish about the evil oil companies, the evil
> carmakers or whatever else is the conspiracy-du-jour, but this is the
> reality of our situation.... in my humble opinion.
>
> Ben
>
>
I have always considered EVs to be a "second car" for most people in the
near future. One is certainly going to be replacing my current "second
car". This is the car I use to commute to work in, not carry the kids
around town in. I am just tired of the constant replacement of small
(sometimes pricey) items on an older ICE car, plus the fact that they
get *less* reliable as time goes by. And buying a new/slightly used
$$$!!! car for such low mileage/one-or-two passenger duty is insanely
ridiculous. Not stopping at a gas station while on the way to work is
also a big plus for me with the heavy traffic here (wait five-ten
minutes just to turn right onto most major roads during rush hour). With
the cheap electricity we enjoy here in the NW, most EVs are less
expensive to operate by a good margin (including the battery pack price
amortized over its lifetime). So it's win-win-win for me ;)
Now am I trapped in some bizarre alternate reality, or is that logic
applicable to many more people out there?
You are talking about EVs being bought *instead* of ICE cars for a
families primary vehicle. I agree, that is not usually realistic right
now. But most households in this country do own more than one car... I
believe EVs can successfully *augment* ICE cars for a large number of
people, replacing most of those second and third cars found in so many
urban/suburban driveways.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
Yes, I agree that the ability to compute the final target speed command
and load it directly into the controller is different than a control
loop that continuously adjusts the speed command until the desired speed
is attained, however, I do not agree that this is a difference between
AC and DC machines. A sep-ex DC machine can also be commanded to a
desired speed with sufficient accuracy to allow the synchros to finish
the job just fine.
Nit picking :-) when I say AC machine I meant AC motor AND inverter
combination, not just a motor. I thought it is obvious assumption
for discussion since you can't load a number into a motor, so the
inverter is not-separatable part of the system.
I do not believe it is impossible to achieve much
the same result with a series machine, although I agree that the task of
computing the motor command to achieve a target speed is more
challenging than the AC or sep-ex DC cases.
I never said it is impossible. I said PID control "requires" dampening
and low pass filtering (digital or analog, doesn't matter) which
are time wasters by definition, and you just don't have it all
in synchronous AS setup. No matter how fast then your Sepex control
works you still can simply subtract the time it takes for the feedback
signal to be processed by the filters in PIC controller's loopback
to get equal performance of synchronous machine. By definition
if you don't have extra processor of signal, the system is faster
(all else being equal). I agree this is not as black and white for
induction machines as PI/PD controller is also used for them in
practical applications. LEt's assume for all practical purposes of
shifting either system can be made perform well enough with
about the same level of effort, shell we? So we can kill this thread :-)
While you are not asking if the DC case can be fast enough to allow
shifting, that is ultimately all that matters in the context of this
discussion. Even if the DC feedback case is slower than the fastest AC
system it makes absolutely no practical difference if the DC case is
fast enough to allow shifting as quickly as the user is capable of.
Agree, but practical adequateness wasn't the subject of discussion,
I carefully emphasized several times that DC setups are very capable
to do the job. All I said - this does not negate AC advantages to be
able to do it even quicker for AC setups simply because they have
means (frequency control) unavailable for DC machines.
Fair enough?
Cheers,
Roger.
Victor
--- End Message ---
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Who sells the 150F and larger capacitors?
Thanks!
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Rodney wrote:
Yeah I agree this would be great, if a few people could get together and
work out how to do it! I would personally love a system that could show all
the relevent driver info (speed, tacho, battery % charge, range, emergency
warnings, etc) and I think an LCD display that could be changeable with
different skins (different colour and types of guages, digial and analogue
looking displays, etc) would be great!
:-)
Rod
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Wednesday, 21 December 2005 9:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
Wouldn't be too hard to do. Maybe this can be an "open source" project for
the evforge web site. Write it in java, use swing/awt for the graphics.
Make it so it can run on Windows, Linux or a Palm with a JVM.
So what would the UI look like? The emeter has Ah, Volts, % charge,
current, ... It updates once a second.
1) a line graph?
2) an "analog type" fuel gauge?
3) a couple gauges: % charge, volts, amps - maybe displayed bar or by analog
meter.
4) have different "skins" so that it can look cool in everybody's car.
Hmm... some questions:
How big of a display is needed?
How sharp of graphics are ppl wanting? (typical computer screen =
96dpi or so)
Monochrome/greyscale/full color?
How much would this setup cost, max, ideally?
The answers would help determine the type/power of processor/computer
needed. You could then go from there. I've always been a fan of simple,
durable, and inexpensive. But I know that "fanciness" is important to so
many others...
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
