EV Digest 5019
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Train Tracks....
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Digital LCD Dash! Was RE: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Fiero flywheel details
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Fiero Flywheel Details
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Lee Hart's "Christmas Car" (long)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Don't feed the trolls
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Big bit sprocket.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) EV-100 schematic
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: FW: new btteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Link 10 Digital Dash - take to EVForge?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Maxing out a Zilla (crazy idea)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Can AC conversion be done cheaply?
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Can AC conversion be done cheaply?
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Scooter to Bicycle sprockets
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Big bit sprocket.
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) (LONG) WAS RE: Digital LCD Dash! (LONG)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Link 10 Digital Dash - take to EVForge?
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) PID controls and other interesting stuff
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Clutchless shift - clarifying
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This one has been forwarded around the internet for years, and there's not
a whole lot of truth to it. It is amusing, but misleading.
As always, check before forwarding (the article below even covers the
recent addition about the space shuttle):
http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.htm
--chris
On Thu, December 22, 2005 11:11 am, Bob Rice said:
>
>
> Hi All;
>
> Thought ya would get a grin with this I was forwarded. Comments
> incerted.
>
>
>
> Hi All. A quick history lesson on Railroads
>
>
>
> The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4
> feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that
> gauge used?
>
> Because that's the way they built them in England, and English
> expatriates built the US Railroads.
>
> SOME roads showed their oriogionality.Built to 6 foot gage, the
> Old Erie comes to mind.
>
> Why did the English build them like that?
>
> Because they COULD, the English, ya know, Jaguers, Lucus
> electricals, etc<g>!
>
> Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who
> built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.
>
> Why did "they" use that gauge then?
>
> Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and
> tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel
> spacing.
>
> Sort of like us car converters, we use the damn glider as it IS!
>
> Okay! Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing?
>
> Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels
> would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England,
> because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts.
>
> So who built those old rutted roads?
>
> Imperial Rome built the first long distance roads in Europe (and
> England)
>
> for their legions. The roads have been used ever since.
>
> We have roads in CT that way!
>
> And the ruts in the roads?
>
> Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts, which everyone else
> had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels. Since the
> chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the
> matter of wheel spacing..
>
> And WE can't come up with a Standard Plug!
>
> The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is
> derived from the original specifications for an Imperial Roman war
> chariot. And bureaucracies live forever.
>
> The DMV, for sure. The BART in SF broke with the patturn, since
> they don't run much horse powered stuff, nowadaze they went to
> a breathtaking FIVE foot. Like the Russians, worried about
> invasion by train from Europe, built THEIR RR's to 5 foot to
> swallow up any invading trains.To go from , say, Moscow to
> Peking they, the Chinese, hafta swap the trucks(Wheel
> Assemblies) out at the border for standard gage ones.China
> followed the pack in the gage thing. So you can buy a new old
> stock Chinese Steam lokie for your tourist or commuter RR.
>
> So the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what
> horse's ass came up with it, you may be exactly right, because the
> Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to
> accommodate the back ends of two war horses
>
> .Or Farm, peace horses?
>
> Will the battery box fit in the Roman Chariot?
>
> Now the twist to the story
>
>
>
> When you see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, there are
> two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel
> tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made
> by Thiokol at their factory at Utah. The engineers who designed
> the SRBs would have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the
> SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch
> site. The railroad line from the factory happens to run through a
> tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel.
> The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the
> railroad track, as you now know, is about as wide as two horses'
> behinds.
>
>
>
> So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the
> world's most advanced transportation system was determined over
> two thousand years ago by the width of a horse's ass.
>
> I beg to differ, as most of us can't book passage on the Shuttle,
> but were happy to have you on the Acela Express! Will the Space
> shuttle fly from JFK to West Palm?<g>!
>
>
>
> ..... and you thought being a HORSE'S ASS wasn't important!
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are many "brick" style PCs out there which tout P4 processors, 20g
hard drives and XGA (1024X768) graphics in the size of two cigarette packs
all for under 400 bucks. The police and delivery companies use these for
their vehicles so the hardware is cheap and reliable. They will run whatever
operating system you need. (Linux, WINXP etc..) As someone has pointed out
the display is the limiting factor in the daytime however there are small
VGA panels made that are more than bright enough for this application in the
7-9" size range. These are driven with a standard 15pin (or 20pin header for
raw components). We have used many different small screens and fabricated
them into retail display kiosks which sit in bright showrooms which include
direct sunlight hitting them. They are perfect for this application. Look at
the small LCDs installed into vehicles these days. Their native resolution
is typically 800X600 and they are plenty bright. The key is simple graphics
using high contrast.
The trick is the software and coming up with a common interface module for
the data input. Speed sensors, microprocessors etc are a dime a dozen now so
the most critical element would be the data bus that is robust enough to
allow constant data flow across the appliances in a harsh environment. I'd
love to have battery equalizers on a bus talking to my PC and seen on my
display terminal at a reasonable cost. I've seen the batt units out there
with a bus so someone is already working from that angle.
Look at it this way, how are the big three doing it now? Why not reverse or
borrow engineer their methods and modify for ours? There has to be software
gurus on this NG that work in the field.
Any discussion on how to proceed? I'd love to start this but I'm more a
hardware guy NOT a software genius.
Not exactly rocket science on the software side. A couple of everyday
competent software fellas could pull a project like this off. No
geniuses or gurus needed. The hardware is potentially more complicated
then the software. Signal conditioning might be needed if you wanted to
be compatible with the variety of OEM/aftermarket sensors and battery
guages/monitors/regulators out there.
I personally wouldn't define a $400 computer combined with a $150
display "cheap". Barely even "reasonable". I can buy an good aftermarket
traditional-style electronic speedo, tach, the needed sensors, and throw
in a volt and amp guage for the battery pack for less then that. Guess
I'm just frugal ;)
Watch out for the hard drive thing, though. I would highly recommend
against using one in such a harsh environment, think flash memory
instead (IDE -> compactflash adapters are commonplace now). Constant
vibration, temperature variations, and environmental harmonics can
dramatically reduce the MTBF (lifespan) of *any* hard drive.
*** Crash goes your Dash! ***
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
I'm a Java programmer with lots of experience in the Swing GUI interface
side of things. You guys tell me what hardware to get and give me some
software specs, and I'll write buy the equipment for myself, stick it in my
current conversion, and write the open source software gratis.
Bill Dennis
Just curious; do you use Eclipse?
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon henry wrote:
...and now we have came full circle and understand how GM spent a
billion bux developing the EV-1. Remember when this thread was about
something simple and cheap...
Now you see why Victor and others are working on nice graphical
battery monitoring systems that are a step up from an E-meter. We
also see why they will end up costing more than an e-meter.
damon
Touche!
I say use alphanumeric LCD/LED digits + bargraphs for such a display.
Can't get simpler/robust then that.
:P
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can't help much here, my stuff is V6 to V6 85 flywheel.
The U of W drive set is assembled so I can't just take it apart for a Look
see.
The Alum by the CV joint, has to come out, and has to have about a 3/8 inch
air gap since the CV joint does move about some. More than you might think
actually.
Also.. EV listers and all I have two Fiero drives sitting under my Fiero
right now... Mine is a Kostov 11 and the V-6 Tranny that came with my 85,
and the Other is the Team U of Washington's twin
Warp 8 and Goodyear Eagle PD 14 mm toothed belts. Kinda interesting how
they differ. My tranny is 85, thiers is also 85 but early like a late 84. My
tranny has LOTS more cast webbing and gusetting for strengthing. Rather
impressive.... considering they are supposed to be the same thing...
My drive is Ugly and... 6 years old.. so the photos are not really spiffy.
Anybody interested in seeing them???
Also I am taking shots of the Loot I am getting From Mg... makes up for the
Boot camp "Week in Basic Monster Garage camp"
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Fiero flywheel details
>
> In a message dated 12/21/2005 4:56:35 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> OK, you fiero conversion owners (I know you're out there, I can see
> your cars in the album...)
>
> Well, the motor adapter and mounting details are slowly coming
> together, but I found 2 things during a test fit-up that I need advice
> on:
>
> First, I'm using a nice cast aluminum adapter from CANEV for a fiero.
> Unfortunately, it doesn't fit the '86 GT, because a large "ear" of the
> flat face tries to fit over where the CV joint for the right wheel
> goes, slicing off the CV joint in the process. Fortunately, it looks
> like the "ear" can be just ground off. Anybody else had that problem?
> Can you confirm or deny that it can be ground off without a problem?
>
> Second, I did a test fit-up using the V6 flywheel. It uses 6 bolts to
> attach to the adapter hub. Unfortunately, the hub has 6 bolt holes at
> 60 degrees apart, while the flywheel has 4 at 60 degrees apart, and 2
> at about 55 degrees or so (just enough off that 2 bolt holes don't line
> up). Now Randy told me I needed to buy a flywheel for a 4 cylinder
> car. I just want to confirm if it's bolt pattern is the same or if it
> is the evenly spaced bolt pattern like what is seen on the adapter hub.
> I have no other way to tell except to buy one sight unseen, so I'd
> really like to hear from you guys. Thanks!
>
> Dave Brandt
> Burned out aerospace engineer turned to the dark side (contracting!)
> If only you knew the power...
>
>
>
> Dave,
> Yep is the answer to both your questions. I had to carve up my adapter
plate
> to clear the CV joint. and the 2.5L 4 flywheel has evenly spaced bolt
holes.
>
> Pat
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The V6 has a 8.125 inch clutch.. just a bit bigger...
So...This may explain the bolt pattern differrences.
Rich Rudman
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Brandt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 4:40 AM
Subject: Re: Fiero Flywheel Details
> Pat Sweeney wrote:
>
> > Dave,
> > Yep is the answer to both your questions. I had to carve up my
> > adapter plate
> > to clear the CV joint. and the 2.5L 4 flywheel has evenly spaced bolt
> > holes.
> >
> > Pat
>
> Thanks, Pat! That'll help. Wonder why they made them different?
> According to the fiero store's data, the clutches are the same for
> either version.
>
> David Brandt
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 20 Dec 2005 at 9:33, jerry halstead wrote:
> I've formatted it and added a few links and images:
> http://www.evconvert.com/article/a-christmas-car
>
I have another one here :
http://www.evdl.org/pages/xmascar.html
It prints fairly nicely.
That's the EV list, always reinventing transportation. Sometimes
reinventing the wheel. <grin>
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Just a reminder that we have a very small number of people on the list who :
- are part troll
- use personal attacks instead of arguing a position rationally
and / or
- are just plain ill-mannered.
I think everybody knows who I'm talking about. You needn't worry about
these people impugning your reputation, since we all know that they're just
blowing smoke.
When someone insults you for a post you made in good faith, or makes
patently outrageous (deliberately inflammatory) remarks, please ignore him.
DO NOT RESPOND. Answering risks a flame war.
If you a person's posts tend to make you angry, please add his name to your
email filter so you never see his posts.
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Azusa can make a sprocket for me but how to attach it to the rear wheel. I
don't want to reinvent the wheel(har har) but what has been the solution if
you need more than 36 teeth and want bicycle chain? Is there such a thing
as a tap that is the same thread as bicycle spline?
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, I was curious if anyone has a GE EV-100 scr controller schematic. I just
have an external hook-up diagram. Email me offline.
Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
Mike Chancey wrote:
> Okay, we seem to have several folks who think this is a great idea.
> I agree, but I lack the skills to make this happen, or even to know
> if it can be made to happen. Given an older laptop or a micro computer
> of some type, is it possible to integrate data from the serial port of
> an E-meter/Link 10 and a pulse signal from a sensor on the speedometer
> cable and then display the results?
This isn't hard to do; even I can do it with my meager programming abilities.
I've done it for at least 15 years, first with the KWH-meter (predecessor of
the E-meter), and then the E-meter itself, using various computers including
the Parallax BASIC Stamp, Radio Shack TRS-80 model 100, Heathkit H89, and a
Zenith Z-159 8088 PC clone.
Paradoxically, the smaller the computer, the easier it is to do this sort of
thing. Hot new modern computers often don't have RS-232 ports, don't come
with any programming languages, have operating systems that steal so much
execution time that you miss data, and are so complicated that learning to
program on them is a skill that takes many hours.
The model 100 was the easiest. I doubt it took even 15 minutes to connect it,
write the program, and display the E-meter data all at once on its LCD
screen. I wrote the program in the built-in Microsoft BASIC. It was easy to
display historical charts or averaged data. I could display analog-type
meters by displaying a graphic of the meter and its scale, and using the
LINE(x1,y1,x2,y2) command to draw the point. By exclusive-ORing the pointer
over the existing graphic, I could draw and undraw the pointer to move it
without altering the graphic.
I expanded the program for use on the H89. It had disk storage, a printer, and
a much bigger screen, so I added to the BASIC program so I could print graphs
of amps, volts, amphours versus time, and save data files to disk.
This program got moved to the PC and modified for QuickBASIC. I found I had to
run it from DOS, not Windows; when Windows was running, it consumed so much
execution time that it missed data on the serial port, no matter how fast the
PC. Newer versions of Windows have only made this problem worse. I'm sure an
expert software engineer can find complex workarounds, but it was beyond me.
I built a little display to use in the car, using a BASIC Stamp II and sixteen
7-segment LEDs. It simultaneously displayed volts, amps, amphours, and
temperature. The software was a little tricky because the Stamp is so slow;
but it eventually worked. The main problem was hardware; it was hand-wired
and not very reliable.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
paul wiley wrote:
> Broken in batteries? Ok I am a newbie to this electric world, but I
> never thought a lead acid battery needed to be broken in. Please fill
> me in.
Hi Paul,
Yes, lead-acid deep-cycle batteries need to be broken in to deliver their full
capacity. You break them in by avoiding deep discharges and high discharge
currents for the first couple dozen cycles. Don't drive too fast or too far.
Over the first dozen charge/discharge cycles, the batteries amphour capacity
and internal resistance will improve by 20% or more.
A common beginner's mistake is to put in new batteries, and then immediately
set off to see how far he can go on a charge. He gets too far from home, and
runs out of charge on the way back. He winds up creeping home with the
batteries almost completely dead. He has just "murdered" his first pack of
batteries. He's cut the life of that pack in half, and may have actually
ruined one or more of them just on that one drive.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
> This would actually be a great application for Lee's EvilBus.
> Basically, we need a small micro that collects data from the E-Meter and
> reformats it for transfer over the EvilBus, and another small micro that
> monitors whatever speedo pulse signal you provide and outputs regular
> speed messages to the EvilBus. Then the PC has only to watch a single
> serial connection to the EvilBus to collect data from both devices.
Yes, that's just the sort of thing I had in mind for EVILbus. A sort of USB
for our EVs, where one could choose from a variety of devices from many
sources, plug them all together, and have it as simple as possible to get
them to all talk together.
There are lots of existing buses that seem adaptable on the surface. But they
are not designed for EVs (not isolated, low noise immunity, not low power).
They also follow the modern trend of extreme complexity, so designing
anything to interface to them is a major engineering project; fine if you're
an engineer, but it leaves hobbyists out (the very people most likely to want
to build and use them).
But, we are struggling onward. :-) The challenge is to invent a software
protocol that provides enough performance for the engineers, but enough ease
of use for non-engineers to use. I'm hoping that we can design something like
an E-meter to EVILbus converter that will have enough general appeal to get
some built and in use. That will put a "stick in the sand" that subsequent
EVILbus devices will have to co-exist with.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rather than clutter the already overloaded EVDL with the discussion on the
Link 10 Digital Dash, might I suggest we try out the discussion forum on
evforge.net?
I have **lots** of experience designing software systems and would like to
discuss using the MVC w SOA pattern for the java code. I do not think this
is particularly interesting to other EVers.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris wrote:
> The problem I can see is that the motor will still see
> the battery pack *peak* voltages, during the on-time
> of the pulse cycles, possibly initiating flash-overs.
This is not the way these type of converters typically
work, though I must admit I have never taken a reading
from a Zilla, nor seen even a block diagram.
Otmar is really the person to confirm this, but from my
general understanding of electronics, I can give you an
answer as to how it should work, no guarantees though.
There is no point in being able to set a motor
voltage limit, if that would not limit the voltage, just
the duty cycle of the full battery voltage as you suggest.
The common way these (Buck) converters work is that they
switch an output circuit (typically an inductor and a
capacitor) between battery voltage and zero, such that
the output is mainly a DC voltage (plus some HF ripple)
that can vary between zero (at zero duty cycle) and
full battery voltage (at 100% duty cycle).
Setting 50% duty cycle delivers half the battery voltage
as a DC level and draws the motor current only half
the time from the batteries, as the other half of the
time the motor current is sustained by the inductor
which has its input connected to zero.
At the current levels we are talking about hundreds or
even thousands of Amps) there is also an AC ripple left
over, which may be as large as several volts even though
the switching frequency is high, because also the currents
are extremely high.
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Tim Humphrey
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 6:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Maxing out a Zilla (crazy idea)
I was thinking along the same lines a James (I think).
It has been said that you never want the motor to see more than 170V, right?
So, if we get to the point of having an EHV Zilla (1200v IGBT's are
available..) Then will we need to start using 240V or 500V nominal motors,
right?? The good news is high volt motors seem to be dirt cheap. (I may be
wrong there)
Has DC met it's limit?? I don't think DC has even got started yet!!
Stay Charged!
Hump
At 11:57 AM 18/12/05 -0600, Chris wrote:
>This thread got me thinking ... There seems to be a great divide
>between a Zilla's theoretical maximum power handling capability and
>what folks normally get out of them on the strip, given the sag
>inherent in any battery chemistry.<snip> First, choose a small,
>high-power battery <snip>
>
>Now to prevent the Zilla from ever seeing an input voltage above its
>maximum, say you had a simple voltage divider,
Not, since the Zilla can go from 100% on to 0% on in 1 switching cycle -
around 0.00005 of a second. your rheostats can't do that.
However, how about a XHV Zilla capable of 600V input? It probably would stay
switching always in order to keep the motor volts below the maximum setting,
so probably never go 100% on. The battery string would never see motor loop
amps, so (for example) a single string of batteries - say 12V x 40
batteries, sagging to (say) 8V at 2000A is still 320V, which may reach 100%
on for a moment at peak power point, if the motor limit is 320V. As the
motor RPMs continue to rise, the battery amps would fall and the Zilla would
start switching again to restrict the max voltage on the motor.
The problem I can see is that the motor will still see the battery pack
*peak* voltages, during the on-time of the pulse cycles, possibly initiating
flash-overs. So it may be (another crazy idea, related to your rheostat
idea) better to custom-build a Zilla pre-stage, that is switching through an
inductor to deliver power to the input of a normal Zilla (keeping the
capacitors charged). The pre-stage is switched to maintain the 300V (or
whatever) the Zilla motor max is allowed to be. How's that for a crazy idea?
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You list an automatic transmission. I always
thought we use stick for conversions, that automatics
are too inefficient. Am I missing something?
Good luck with the project, and welcome to the list.
peace,
But with the high rpm limit of AC systems, you can take an auto trans car
that would otherwise not convertible with DC and eliminate the trans
entirely with direct drive, achieving a no-shift conversion.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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At 11:35 PM 12/21/05 -0800, you wrote:
Current price for an AC system with 18kW rated motor+inverter
I can offer is about $8,8k. That includes contactors, throttle pot,
cabling, interface - entire drive system. Max power is 50-70 kw
(if high voltage is used).
For clarification, the $13k AC kit mentioned is specific to the Metro, and
includes battery boxes, a single speed gearbox, and various mounts. Our AC
Light Vehicle Manual Transmission Kit, which would be similar to Victor's,
is about the same price at $8,790. This includes the motor adaptor.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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I just happen to have a bunch of scooter parts laying around & common
scooter sprockets have 5 hole adapters. Disc brakes have 6. I have a ring
with a large bore just about the same size as a bicycles. It has 5 holes.
I bet I could press it on to a bike rear hub and then have Azusa make the
bore to fit that & I drill the holes. Maybe a couple of welds to hold it
together and walla. Any size sprocket could go on the back wheel. Anybody
done that or have a better idea on how to put a big sprocket on a bicycle?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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I brazed a disc of 1/8" steel plate to the side of the largest cog on my
freewheel, then tapped 5 holes in it to match a bicycle chainring (crank
sprocket) bolt circle. Then I could bolt chainrings to the side of my
cluster. Depending on the bolt pattern, chainrings are available off
the shelf up to about 60 teeth and I've seen 64T and 72T as well, but
not sure where to get them these days.
hth,
Andrew
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Azusa can make a sprocket for me but how to attach it to the rear
wheel. I don't want to reinvent the wheel(har har) but what has been
the solution if you need more than 36 teeth and want bicycle chain?
Is there such a thing as a tap that is the same thread as bicycle spline?
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Jerry wrote:
> Not exactly the same, but I ran across some interesting Prius "hacks"
> that do much the same thing, although they are tapping into the
> onboard computer:
> http://www.evconvert.com/article/links-111505
>
>
> -Jerry
The link from Jerry's page is
http://www.vassfamily.net/ToyotaPrius/CAN/cindex.html#HW,
I think that this is very similar to what Lee, Roger, John and others are
trying to do with the EvilBus system. The Pirus has an existing CANbus system
so the info is all there, it just has to be deciphered.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
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Well it started out as simply a desire for more information. It has been
great seeing everyone's input because that is what makes a NG valuable.
Different experiences, attitudes and opinions make a better world IMO.
The obstacle so many of the posters here face is that they, being EV
enthusiasts like any other [insert group name here] enthusiast, are far less
concerned with the novice consumer (potential converts) than their own
display of expertise in whatever genre of enthusiast club they participate
in. Not knocking anyone just an observation. The dissemination of everyone's
knowledge freely without oppression in a likewise free society is what our
founding fathers originally sought. My desire for alternative fuel sources
began simply as an awakening of the dire mess we have placed ourselves
through dependency to oil and the decline into consumerism as a nation. (End
of political rant)
I grew up on a farm. We fixed things with whatever was in the barn and often
it was a patchwork of ingenuity over finesse. It worked and we planted,
harvested and did what farmers do. I now have a better station in life and
often look for a more elegant solution to problems instead of "get r done"
as a matter of principle not fashion. The E-meter is a great tool from all I
can see and will do the majority of the monitoring I NEED for my Evs but I
WANT a nicer interface. I don't wish to throw money at something to make it
happen and often I will fabricate something in my shop over buying an off
the shelf product because we can make it better and sometimes cheaper. That
is how this thread got started. I have an uncle who's company installs
computers in police cars (at a ridiculous profit) and they have similar
functions (information display) using this type of technology that is
inexpensive (not cheap however). An analog display is effective and pretty
cheap to do the job. I have an old 58 pickup that is all original analog and
works just like it did from the factory. Looks cool too!
In the audio world there are companies (http://www.rdlnet.com) that make
little bricks that do something all shaped in a universal size and voltage.
One brick is a router/switcher, another is a volume control, another is an
interface for well you get the idea. Take the same approach to what I want.
Monitor speed (little box), monitor voltage (little box) etc... All that
interface to a pc (or dedicated micro-controller if you must). The E-meter
was where I started because it does its job well AND is proven in the
industry BUT it's human interface is just OK. I'd like something better or
maybe just different more like what a normal consumer might see on their
dash if they drove a modern car. AND I'd like the ability to analyze the
charging patterns, battery conditions etc outside of my slick human
interface which would be outside of the typical consumer display. This would
be entirely possible using the same screen or simply a wireless link to my
home computer while the EV is parked overnight in the garage getting
charged.....OK now I'm outside the initial boundaries however think about
it. PC platform...data modules sending data over common bus...wireless
(802.11) connection all of this is done daily in millions of applications
from banking, real estate, even in some domestic appliances.
On top of that I'm frugal but can spend money if it serves the purpose well.
My PC is not an off the shelf box. It's assembled from suppliers
motherboard, cpu drives etc. I spent more money than buying the "box" but it
also has a whole lot more and works faster than the "box" I could have
bought the easy way. That said I could just use the E-meter and do what I
need but I'd like a display that makes sense. SO everyone who thinks this is
a good idea keep posting your suggestions. I'll investigate common interface
modules and see if something comes from these discussions. At least I have
discovered an enormous amount of really intelligent people out there who are
willing to share their time and knowledge for the sake of doing things
better (or different!).
Pedroman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Rice
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 11:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Digital LCD Dash! Was RE: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:44 AM
Subject: RE: Digital LCD Dash! Was RE: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
> ...and now we have came full circle and understand how GM spent a
> billion bux developing the EV-1. Remember when this thread was about
> something simple and cheap...
> Yeah! Sigh! With OUR tax bux!
> Now you see why Victor and others are working on nice graphical
> battery monitoring systems that are a step up from an E-meter. We
> also see why
they
> will end up costing more than an e-meter.
>
> damon
>
>
> >From: "Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Digital LCD Dash! Was RE: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter /
> >Link10
> >Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 00:55:50 +1000
> >
> >
> >Hi Bill
> >
> >That would be great! I am not quite sure about the hardware part of
> >it (others would be better informed) but I would love a large colour
> >widescreen LCD screen in place of all the guages on the dash. The
> >software would
need
> >to show all relevent driver info (speed, tacho, battery % charge,
> >range, emergency warnings, etc) and an LCD display that could be
> >changeable with different skins (different colour and types of
> >guages, digital and
analogue
> >looking displays, etc) would be great!
> >
> >Anyone have any other/additional ideas?
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Rod
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >On Behalf Of Bill Dennis
> >Sent: Friday, 23 December 2005 12:32 AM
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: RE: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
> >
> >I'm a Java programmer with lots of experience in the Swing GUI
> >interface side of things. You guys tell me what hardware to get and
> >give me some software specs, and I'll write buy the equipment for
> >myself, stick it in
my
> >current conversion, and write the open source software gratis.
> >
> >Bill Dennis
> >
>
>
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Sounds like a great idea, but I hope that it can be linked to the evtech's
discussion of Lee's Evilbus. I am sure that there is a lot of info that can be
exchanged and it seems a shame to duplicate efforts. In any case the amount of
info that Lee, Roger, John and others on the evtech group have is pretty
significant and should not be ignored.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 11:52 AM
Subject: Link 10 Digital Dash - take to EVForge?
> Rather than clutter the already overloaded EVDL with the discussion on the
> Link 10 Digital Dash, might I suggest we try out the discussion forum on
> evforge.net?
>
> I have **lots** of experience designing software systems and would like to
> discuss using the MVC w SOA pattern for the java code. I do not think this
> is particularly interesting to other EVers.
>
> Don
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
>
>
>
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With all the discussion of PID controls, clutchless shifting and so
on, I thought I'd apprise the list of something I stumbled on last
night. Coincidences can be fun.
In the process of updating FireFox, I noticed the StumbleUpon
extension. This is a web site that simulates stumbling around in an
area looking for something interesting. You sign up and check off
areas of interest. Then you click the Stumble button and you're
directed to a site in that field. You can vote good/bad on the site.
The more good votes, the further toward the top that site gets. Among
my interests were "electronics" and "instruments and controls". One
of the first sites I hit was this:
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/video_demos/index.html
This is a massive collection of educational videos and high speed stop
action videos, mostly dealing with machine and process control. Here
are a few in particular: WARNING dialup-unfriendly! This site might
qualify as a killer app for broadband.
Inverted pendulum balancing involving PID control
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/video_demos/controls/CSU_Controls_Lab/cart_inverted_pendulum.wmv
PID control demonstration that shows what each component, proportional
gain, integral and derivative (old terms: proportional, reset and
rate) do. The demonstrator is a motor control circuit.
A DC servo motor PID control loop constructed using LABVIEW.
Excellent.
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/video_demos/mechatronics/NI_dc_motor_demo.wmv
Pretty much everything on this page is interesting:
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/video_demos/controls/index.html
More interesting stuff including a clip of a variable frequency drive
being used in an HVAC installation:
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/video_demos/energy_thermal_fluid/index.html
More mostly motor control videos.
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/video_demos/mechatronics/index.html
Enough slow motion videos to occupy a day or two
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/high_speed_video/index.html
----------
It's too bad that none of the common EV controllers have PID
capability. Among the driving conveniences such feedback control
would enable:
Inherent cruise control. The accelerator becomes the speed setpoint
control. The control loop maintains the motor and therefore the car
speed regardless of load.
Dynamic speed change up AND down. If the speed setpoint (accelerator)
is set to a slower speed, the system dynamically controls the
deceleration just like acceleration. Dynamic braking/regen is
practically inherent.
Very sensitive and stable slow speed control. Want to creep along
side someone walking or be in a parade? Just set the speed
(accelerator or hand pot) to 1 or 2 mph and the speed will be
maintained up hill or down.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
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David Dymaxion wrote:
> I'm not clear on why a shunt/sepex system couldn't slow down the
> armature fast enough, or why you'd need a "regen controller" when a
> sepex or shunt already does regen? A sepex can provide 100 ft*lbs or
> more of traction torque, but can also provide that much regen torque
> -- it should be able to slow the armature very quickly.
To speed up a motor, you need to apply power TO it. The more power, the faster
it can accellerate.
To slow down a motor, you have to pull power FROM it; i.e. use it as a
generator. This is why a controller that can do regen is required.
The above has nothing to do with AC or DC; it's true for both.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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