EV Digest 5034
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(Quebecers from switching to electric)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN("EV CONFIDENTIAL" movie picked up by Sony Pictures Classics)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(Racing is electric)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN("It's the reason I bought a hybrid": HOV access expires 2007)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(? Hybrids can deliver a punch of up to 650 volts ?)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN(Does GM plan their hybrids to fail like the EV1?)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Festiva or Metro
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: I want to build a PWM DC motor controller
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: I want to build a PWM DC motor controller
by Tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EVLN(Honda makes batteries last longer by not taxing them too heavily)
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: I want to build a PWM DC motor controller
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: I want to build a PWM DC motor controller
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: I want to build a PWM DC motor controller
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Competition for Jerry's Freedom EV?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EVLN(Honda makes batteries last longer by not taxing them too heavily)
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Competition for Jerry's Freedom EV?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Range in Rudman, was Re: Units of EV merit
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Quebecers from switching to electric)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/story.html?id=6328834f-5a33-4041-af4d-485a6c0e7107&k=82902
Laurentian city is plugged in to electric vehicles
St. Jerome's battery-powered fleet proves viable alternative
exists, mayor says MICHELLE LALONDE, The Gazette Published:
Sunday, November 27, 2005
Bloc Quebecois leader Gilles Duceppe tries out one of St.
Jerome's electric cars during a visit last summer.
Photograph by: CP
St. Jerome's Marc Gascon, arguably Quebec's greenest mayor, says
the only thing stopping many Quebecers from switching to electric
cars is a lack of supply.
The mayor, re-elected this month to a fourth term, has been
driving electric vehicles around the lower Laurentian city for
years.
St. Jerome has piloted dozens of electric vehicle projects over
the past 10 years.
The city currently has 15 electric vehicles - everything from
trucks and cars to ice resurfacers, lawnmowers and scooters - in
its fleet.
The city employees who use them rave about their performance.
Residents express frustration they can't buy these types of
vehicles.
"We are showing that these vehicles can operate well in Quebec
and Canada despite our weather conditions," Gascon said. He had
been speaking at Rendez-vous citoyen Kyoto, a conference held
Friday and yesterday at the Universite du Quebec a Montreal, a
precursor to the United Nations Climate Change Conference
beginning in Montreal tomorrow.
The topic was: Limitations to clean transportation; are they
political, technological, financial, or other? Gascon argued the
limitations to electric vehicle use in Quebec are certainly not
technological.
"You often hear people say battery-operated vehicles couldn't
work in the cold but we say, 'Hey, we've been using them for 10
years and they work just fine.' "
Many of the vehicles in the St. Jerome electric fleet are not
approved for use on Quebec roads. But because the city is home to
a centre that studies and promotes electric vehicles, Quebec's
Transportation Department has given the city special permission
to study their performance on the road.
Gascon points out the car he uses, a Citroen Saxo, is plugged in
overnight and gets about 100 kilometres per recharge. He does
need to put gasoline into a small engine that powers the car's
heater, which burns about six litres a month.
While the battery charging means electric cars are not practical
for long-distance driving, he says they are perfect for the
average city driver, because they are non-polluting and silent.
He said the cars could make a huge difference in Canada's fight
to reduce greenhouse gas emissions if two-car families could
replace one with an electric car. The problems, he said, are
price and availability.
St. Jerome bought many of its vehicles used from Larochelle,
France, where government subsidies had for a time made it easier
for municipalities to procure electric vehicles at the same price
as conventional ones.
Gascon said his hope is that an electric car industry will take
root in Quebec.
Other panelists, like Andre Belisle, who heads the Association
quebecoise de lutte contre la pollution atmospherique, said the
problem is political. He said the public must put pressure on
governments.
"We have to stand up against a car industry that spends billions
of dollars every year in advertising to tell you that if you
don't have the latest model, you're a loser and you will die
alone," Belisle said.
"So we all drive around alone in our cars and we don't realize
that we are all losers when we do that."
[EMAIL PROTECTED] © The Gazette (Montreal) 2005
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN("EV CONFIDENTIAL" movie picked up by Sony Pictures Classics)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.ifmagazine.com/new.asp?article=2459
Movie News: ELECTRIC VEHICLE PHENOMENON SPURS SONY PICTURES
CLASSICS DEAL
SPC Acquires Electric Entertainment and Plinyminor's new
documentary
By: ANDREW MOUSER Tech Editor Published: 11/10/2005
[Image] (C) 2005 Electric Entertainment LOCATION: New York
THE SKINNY: Sony Pictures Classics (SPC) has picked-up the North
American/English speaking rights to Electric Entertainment and
Plinyminor's politically charged documentary, EV CONFIDENTIAL.
SPC will release the film theatrically in 2006.
In an era of rising gas prices and increasing dependence on
foreign oil, the timely film, EV CONFIDENTIAL, serves as murder
mystery/whodunit exploring who killed the electric car and
destroyed the evidence in the process. This film documents the
creation and subsequent destruction of a car that could have
changed the world.
The documentary was written and directed by Chris Paine (FASTER)
and produced by Jessie Deeter. Dean Devlin's Electric
Entertainment financed the project, and co-produced it with
Plinyminor, the production company headed by Richard D. Titus and
Tavin Marin Titus.
The project has a personal connection for Devlin, whose father
Don, owned one of the first commercially produced electric cars.
Based on his father's passion, Devlin has long wanted to tell
this story and went as far as to name his production company
Electric Entertainment.
The foremost goal in making this movie is to educate and
enlighten audiences with the story of this car, its place in
history, and in the larger story of our car culture and it's
enablement of our addiction to foreign oil, " says Dean Devlin.
"We're thrilled to be working with Sony Pictures Classics on
bringing this long-time passion of mine to the big screen.
"There is no more timely a moment then right now for EV
CONFIDENTAL, a film that brings into focus several of the most
important issues facing the world," says Sony Pictures Classics.
"We are thrilled to be working with director Chris Paine and
producers Dean Devlin, Richard Titus and Tavin Marin Titus all of
whom we have known for a long time."
This is an important film with an important message that not only
calls to task the officials who squelched the Zero Emission
Vehicle mandate, but all of the other accomplices, government,
the car companies, Big Oil, even Eco-darling Hydrogen as well as
consumers, who turned their backs on the car," says Richard
Titus.
The deal with Sony was negotiated by Doug Stone of the legal firm
Stone, Meyer & Genow.
The documentary's international rights are being represented by
Voltage Pictures.
About Electric Entertainment:
Under the "Electric" banner, Devlin has produced EIGHT LEGGED
FREAKS, released by Warner Bros. and Village Roadshow in July
2002; New Line's Fall 2004 release CELLULAR starring Kim
Basinger; and THE LIBARARIAN which aired on TNT network in
December 2004 and was the highest rated movie on cable that year.
In spring of 2005, Devlin produced the World War I epic FLYBOYS,
starring James Franco, Martin Henderson and Jean Reno in the U.K.
while concurrently shooting the Sci Fi Channel's six-hour
mini-series event THE TRIANGLE in South Africa. Devlin and Bryan
Singer serve as executive producers on THE TRIANGLE. Devlin
recently wrapped production in Africa for the sequel THE
LIBRARIAN entitled THE LIBRARIAN: RETURN TO KING SOLOMON'S MINES
which is scheduled to air in December of 2006 on TNT. Devlin is
currently producing the pilot TALK TO ME, which is being
deficit-financed by Lions Gate for TNT.
About Plinyminor:
Plinyminor, founded by serial entrepreneur Richard D. Titus, vet
producer Tavin Marin Titus (On-line) and director Tim Cox is a
fast-growing entertainment production company with offices in
both Los Angeles and Baton Rouge, Louisiana. The company is
focused on properties with budgets under $20 million and relies
on their strong and unique expertise in technology and
entertainment including digital production, visual effects, video
games, Internet and mobile entertainment.
About Voltage Pictures:
Voltage Pictures is an international sales and financing company.
It was formed in March by foreign sales veteran Nicolas Chartier
and producer Dean Devlin (INDEPENDENCE DAY, GODZILLA). The
company has represented various titles including VEGAS BABY!,
AFTER, THE QUIET, SEVERED, THE LEGEND OF LUCY KEYES, THE
TRIANGLE, THE LIBRARIAN 2 and more.
===
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3263851
Sundance: If you like music, you'll like this film lineup
By Sean P. Means The Salt Lake Tribune
[...]
2006 Sundance Film Festival noncompetition slate Spectrum
[...]
"EV Confidential: Who Killed the Electric Car?", a documentary by
Chris Paine that examines the death and rise of the electric car
- along with other renewable-energy technologies.
[...]
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Racing is electric)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.auburnpub.com/articles/2005/11/07/news/lake_life/feat01.txt
Lake Life Racing is electric
By Sean Mills / Special to The Citizen
Monday, November 7, 2005 10:05 AM EST
Photo provided by William Gilmore
William Gilmore, Auburn High School graduate and SUNY Oswego
student, fastens the upper canopy on the electric car, one of the
final steps in building the vehicle.
OSWEGO - There's good gas mileage, and then there's the vehicle
Auburn native William Gilmore has built.
It took him and his colleagues just three years, but Gilmore and
the rest of the technology department at SUNY Oswego finally
completed their homemade car that can get 300 to 400 miles per
gallon.
But while the senior in the technology education department felt
the high-mileage vehicle was a great accomplishment, it was
hardly the end for Gilmore. He turned to the world of competitive
racing and decided to build a car so that he could join in.
Not just any car would do, however.
We just got that car running this semester and we were thinking
of how we could make that vehicle run on electricity, said
Gilmore, 23, who graduated from Auburn High School in 2001. Get
the idea out there and show that it can get done.
When the EVO project (Electric Vehicle Oswego) was born at the
beginning of September, Gilmore was broke. The department didn't
have the parts or the funds, so Gilmore reached out to the
community for help.
He found sponsors in the Ford Motor Company Truck Division, D.O.
Tech in Rochester, and a number of other small places that
donated spare parts, like Auburn Tank & Mfg Co. From there -
using plans they'd found around the country from other projects
-- Gilmore and the other students and faculty managed to build
the new racer in only a few months.
We were able to get it down from a three-year project to two
months, said Gilmore, who wants to be a teacher. We really
wanted to get it done.
Gilmore built EVO as part of an independent study for the energy
class. It's a tear-drop shaped three-wheel single-person car that
Gilmore has decorated green and gold, the school's colors.
He got the chance to show off his racer at SUNY Oswego's 66th
Annual Technology Education Fall Conference on Oct. 27.
It went awesome, Gilmore said. The (sponsor) representatives
were really pleased.
This week Gilmore plans to test run the vehicle at the Oswego
speedway, which granted him special use of the track.
In the spring, Gilmore will begin student teaching and he hopes
another student will take up the independent study project.
In April, if the timing is right, Gilmore will be able to race
EVO in a state-wide conference in Connecticut.
The race is run with a set time limit and each school's entry has
to go as far as possible within that time limit.
Next, Gilmore hopes to bring the car home to Auburn and show it
around to technology classes at the high school. It will then be
donated to the SUNY Oswego technology department for future car
builders.
Everything just started falling together, Gilmore said. We got
help from bicycle shops and people donating stuff.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN("It's the reason I bought a hybrid": HOV access expires 2007)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://cbs5.com/topstories/local_story_361214342.html
Dec 27, 2005 6:40 pm US/Pacific
Hybrid Clean Air Vehicle Stickers Going Fast
[Image] Tony Russomanno Reporting
(CBS) Time is running out for hybrid car owners who want an
open-access pass to carpool lanes.
CalTrans put a limit on the total number of passes it will issue.
Tony Russomanno tells us it could reach that limit sooner than
you think.
This yellow sticker is the E-ticket for California freeways. It
is the get out of traffic free card -- or, almost free.
For a one-time payment of $8, you get to drive solo in the
carpool lane
if like Teresa Lanz, you have the right car.
It was probably the whole reason I bought the car, says Lanz.
Maybe someday Ill get in that carpool lane and the first day
they announced it, I was so excited. I got on the web and I was
calling them up and I was like how do I do this, what do I need
to do?
As of Tuesday, more than 39,500 carpool lane stickers have been
issued. CalTrans will re-evaluate the program at 50,000 stickers
and decide whether to allow it to grow to a maximum of 75,000.
It has been such a blessing, says Lanz. I live in San Jose and I
work up in Palo Alto and it has just taken ages off my commute. I
love it.
Teresa Lanz says she was one of the first to apply, as soon as
she purchased her Honda Civic Hybrid.
As of now, the only cars that qualify for solo carpool access are
the Toyota Prius, the Honda Civic Hybrid and earlier models of
the Honda Insight.
Just because a vehicle is a hybrid, like my own Ford Escape
hybrid, doesnt mean it qualifies for a commute lane sticker. It
has to get at least 45 miles to a gallon and meet some very
stringent clean air requirements.
The 2005 Honda Accord and Insight, Ford Escape, Mercury Mariner,
and the Lexus and Highlander hybrid SUVs all fall short on
mileage or emissions.
CalTrans is monitoring the sticker program to make sure it
doesn't cause congestion in the carpool lanes. So far, it hasn't,
but it has caused some bitter feelings among non-hybrid drivers.
I dont think its necessary, says Ford Bronco driver Cassondra
Ali. The commute lane is for more that one person, two or more,
so just because they have a hybrid car they should not be able to
drive solo.
Toyna Johnson owns a qualifying hybrid but has not applied for a
sticker. She says the carpool lane is not just about carpools.
Actually I think the purpose of a carpool lane is to help the
environment, and I think that if your car is helping the
environment you should be able to use it, says Johnson.
Some sticker owners have reported being targets of abuse from
other drivers, but not Teresa Lanz.
I havent really noticed, says Lanz. Im usually too busy
waving bye-bye to all the people stuck in traffic.
Enjoy it while you can. The law authorizing solo hybrid access
expires in 2007.
(© MMV, CBS Broadcasting, Inc. All Rights Reserved.)
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(? Hybrids can deliver a punch of up to 650 volts ?)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.semissourian.com/story/1132884.html
Hybrid vehicles change fire rescue tactics
Tuesday, December 27, 2005 ~ Southeast Missourian
JULIA METELSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In recent months, both career and noncareer fire departments in
Southeast Missouri have been trained on risks involved and
tactics used during hybrid vehicle rescues.
In the same way that airbags changed rescue tactics several years
ago, hybrid vehicles and newer technologies require different
approaches to extricating people after an accident, said Cape
Girardeau fire battalion chief Mark Hasheider.
State fire instructor John Sachen said that he has found no
studies or statistics that show hybrid vehicles are dangerous to
its passengers.
"The key is that firefighters are just unaware that these
vehicles exist," he said, and that is what increases the risk.
Last week, Sachen released an online PowerPoint presentation
through the University of Missouri-Columbia Fire and Rescue
Training Institute. The presentation highlights ways firefighters
should "size up" hybrid vehicles.
Each hybrid manufacturer, such as Toyota, Honda and Ford,
incorporates the same basic components: an electrical generator,
a high-voltage battery, a gas tank and air bags.
Wires and cables connected to the batteries can deliver a punch
of up to 650 volts, Sachen said, putting firefighters and
responders at risk of electrocution, flash burns and ignition of
leaking fuel. Manufacturers generally indicate high-voltage
cables with orange wires, and sometimes red or yellow.
In order to disable batteries, Sachen said firefighters need to
locate the batteries, with are typically behind or under the back
passenger seat. More challenges arise from the locations of
airbags, and some vehicles carry up to seven airbags.
The Cape Girardeau fire department has not had any accidents
involving hybrid vehicles, Hasheider said.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Does GM plan their hybrids to fail like the EV1?)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051226/SUB/51222003/1011&refcat=
General Motors hybird powertrain leader Larry Nitz holds 35 patents
in powertrain and vehicle systems.
QUESTION & ANSWER GM draws on past to speed hybrid progress
Richard Truett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Automotive News / December 26,
2005 - 6:00 am
General Motors is about to shift into high gear with
gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles.
The Saturn Vue Greenline has its coming out party at next month's
North American International Auto Show. That vehicle will be
followed by a hybrid version of the Malibu sedan. Then comes a
series of hybrid trucks.
Leading GM's hybrid powertrain team is Larry Nitz, a 30-year GM
veteran. Nitz, 47, assumed the title of executive director of
GM's global hybrid powertrains in 2003. Nitz, who holds 35
patents in powertrain and vehicle systems, spoke with Staff
Reporter Richard Truett.
Many people don't know this, but GM has been building hybrids
since the 1930s -- if you count trains. Did any of the knowledge
from Electro-Motive Division, as well as the EV1, the hybrid bus
program and the gasoline-electric Precept concept car help you
develop the hybrids for production vehicles?
Absolutely. All the experience we have had on all the programs is
coming to bear. We had significant learnings from the EV1 and
from GM ATV (Advanced Technology Vehicles), which did the
Precept. We have a lot of experienced people who have worked with
trains, and from automotive in the work that was done before.
When we consolidated all of these engineering functions to work
on a dedicated and limited number of solutions, it really
improved our capability. The experience from the EV1 and bus
programs is very significant. We have an engineering team in
Torrance, Calif., that is expert on electric motors and
inverters.
Ford also is securing suppliers for its hybrid vehicles. Would GM
and Ford work together to build a North American supply base and
to share costs and technology like you did with the six-speed
transmission?
As you look at the supply base for electric motors and inverters
and batteries, the number of suppliers is so limited that
everybody is talking to everybody. We talk to all the different
potential suppliers, whether they are in Europe, North America or
Asia.
Ford says it needs around 300 engineers in the coming years for
its hybrid vehicle programs. What's the situation at GM? Will you
be hiring?
We are still looking for a few specific positions, but it is not
anywhere near 300 people. We need engineers here and there for
some hybrid components.
How has GM geared up to build hybrids after first brushing them
off?
We have, over the last five years, done a number of things to get
us where we are today. We have consolidated work across the
corporation into my group for (hybrid) powertrains. I have at my
disposal the whole group of people who know how to do hybrid
powertrains. Those people came from research, from Allison
Transmission, from GM Powertrain and from the organization that
was GM ATV.
The second thing we did was focus ourselves on not exploring
every system known to man, but only on the ones that we are going
to go to production with that will provide customer choice. We've
narrowed the solution choice to the hybrid system we have in the
Saturn Vue Hybrid and the two-mode system (a hybrid powertrain
with two electric motors).
Why share GM technology with DaimlerChrysler and BMW on the
two-mode hybrid system for trucks?
We've been able to really leverage the supply base and to reduce
our development costs. Also, we've pooled our engineering
talent.
We've seen Opel engineers do much of the heavy lifting in
integrating fuel cell powertrains. Does that mean Opel engineers
will have a role in developing hybrid systems?
We have a significant amount of interaction with Opel on the base
technologies of motors, motor controls inverters and batteries.
Fuel cell vehicles are always fuel cell hybrid vehicles because
they have battery packs. The same people that work on the hybrid
batteries work on the fuel cell batteries. The same people that
do electric motor controls for the hybrid system do motor
controls for the fuel cells, too.
Does GM expect to make money on hybrids?
I am not able to answer that question. But our objective
long-term is to make money on every vehicle we produce.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Might want to look at this site also ...
http://www.e-volks.com/about.html2.html
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> If you were converting a "small car" today, would you rather used
a late
> model Ford Festiva or Geo Metro. I looked at both cars earlier
today and I
> believe the Festiva to be a superior conversion candidate. But, I
am interested in
> what others have to say, and why other people aren't choosing the
Festiva.
>
> In my opinion, advantages of the Festiva:
> There is at least 2.75" more length to fit a motor which opens up
a lot more
> options than the 8" ADC.
> - You could even easily fit a Warp 9" for some serious
performance.
> Battery mounting appears to be easier, especially if you take out
the rear
> seat, which is very easy
> Currently, you may be able to get a donor car pretty inexpensively
>
>
> In my opinion, disadvantages of the Festiva:
> No off the shelf kit, as far as I know
> Few examples to work from
> Parts availability - 5 years from now - is questionable
> The cars are generally older and more difficult to find in low
mileage
> Stock brakes seem a little small - from what I could tell from the
> disassembled car
>
> I would like to know what others think, and why they decided to go
with the
> Metro rather than the Festiva. I think the Festiva with the 9"
motor and 14 x
> 12 V AGM batteries and a 1k Zilla controller locked in 2nd gear
would make a
> great car. I think better than a comparable Metro which would be
limited to a
> 8" ADC and 12 x 12 V batteries (I've heard space issues). Anyone
need to
> correct me?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 04:04:34 -0600, Danny Miller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but much of this is
>inaccurate at least for modern parts.
>
>I don't mean to dog the point but from our previous discussions, have
>you actually used a microcontroller itself? I know you did a lot of
>work with the BASIC Stamp things. I certainly don't want to revamp the
>argument over their value but using their interpreted system is far
>isolated from working with the controller itself which may be a source
>of misunderstanding. Funny I can make my own top list of potential uC
>problems but they don't coincide with this list much as all... maybe I
>should to be fair. And this isn't supposed to be competition here so I
>suppose I should do that tomorrow.
Not speaking for Lee but my first embedded design was with the
then-hotsh*t Z80, actually a pre-production part.
The difference between Lee and I and you is that we've been around
long enough to have witnessed what errant machinery can do, both to
humans and to other machinery. I, at least, have seen what your kind
of faith in hardware gets twisted around to in a court room.
I can imagine anything worse in this world than having something I
designed maim or kill someone. Until someone can show me a way to
define every known state under every conceivable condition inside a
microprocessor (or any other programmable logic element) then life and
property safety logic in MY designs are going to be done with methods
that ARE definable. Whenever possible that's going to be low
impedance discrete components.
I was like you once. I had complete faith in my design abilities and
in the hardware. Fortunately I had a crusty old engineer for a
mentor. He sat me down one day with a block diagram of the Z80 and a
schematic of my latest controller and started peppering me with
questions. Things like "what happens if a cosmic ray flips that bit".
I was young and hardheaded and knew everything but eventually it sunk
in. Later, being hired as an expert witness for some liability suits
drove it home completely.
One of the first projects I worked on when M&M Mars hired me back in
the late 70s was to make their custom-designed wrapping machinery
safer and more reliable. I was aghast at what I found.
Pre-microprocessor, the machine control was implemented in NumaLogic.
The worst problem was that all the big red emergency stop buttons were
wired as simple inputs to the logic. They'd just had a case where
someone got a shirt sleeve caught in the machinery and by the time the
logic got around to stopping the machine, several fingers were gone.
You wanna guess how much THAT cost Mars? Properly, I might add.
My design revision had all power sources interrupted directly by the
red buttons and a spring loaded brake applied to the highest inertia
drivetrain.
In this instance, since a mis-fired power transistor can smoke itself
on one cycle, no way am I going to rely on the processor to supervise
the current. Similarly, no way am I going to let the processor read
the "key on" input and stop the ucontroller through code. That's
going to be implemented in hardware. The ucontroller receives its own
signal to halt but that's just redundancy as far as safety goes.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is why I like the simplicity of the 4QD PWM analog controls...never
a problem in almost 3 years.
Tim
Lee Hart wrote:
Yes; and the people designing such critical safety systems know HOW to do
fail-safe
design. But they do NOT do it with off-the-shelf micros, standard circuits, and
garden
variety C compilers! I'm not kidding; you will KILL someone if you do this!
My key point is that the casual programmer doesn't know how to write or test
fail-safe
software. It is a very specialized, very time-consuming process. So, he
shouldn't try!
It is much easier to build fail-safe hardware circuits instead.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I also have a 2000 insight
Honda replaced the batt at 58,000 mi. I now have
99,600 mi and have been keeping the batt "Bars" near
the top all the time in hopes of getting even more
miles that the first.one. I drive over 100 mi every
day and have 1700 ft of elevation change in 50 mi so
it gets lots of work.
BTW the gas savings alone have more than paid for the
car even if I have to buy another battery.
--- bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> EVLN(Honda makes batteries last longer by not taxing
> them too
> heavily)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public
> EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for
> reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05335/615060.stm
> Behind the Wheel: Batteries designed to last as long
> as vehicles
> Thursday, December 01, 2005
> By Don Hammonds, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
>
> Q: I have a 2000 Honda Hybrid with 63,000 miles. Do
> you know what
> the life of the battery is?
>
> ED LARIO Pittsburgh
>
> A: I pitched your question to Honda spokesman Chris
> Naughton.
>
> "Honda designed the battery to last the life of the
> vehicle," he
> said.
>
> "We applied lessons that we learned as far back as
> our
> all-electric vehicle, the EV Plus. "What we learned
> from that car
> and applied on our hybrids is how to make the
> batteries last
> longer by not taxing them too heavily.
>
> "What I mean by that is we don't charge the
> batteries fully or
> dispel the energy completely. Doing either one of
> those things
> greatly distresses the battery. So we operate the
> batteries in
> our hybrids within a sweet spot."
>
> By the way, ever wonder what would happen in an
> accident in which
> there was damage to the battery?
>
> The battery has small quantities of alkaline liquid
> that is
> corrosive to human tissue. But in the finished
> battery cells, the
> electrolytes are non-liquid and sealed in a metal
> case. The
> electrolyte is non-flammable, non-explosive and
> creates no
> hazardous fumes or vapors in normal operating
> conditions or even
> in a fire.
>
> As for replacement cost, I've had figures quoted as
> a "couple
> thousand dollars" or so. I'd figure on around at
> least $2,000 to
> replace your battery.
> -
>
>
>
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> ===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
> http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
>
>
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i will not start a PIC-ATMEL-rest of the world war here but your point is
just...your point period.
There is no better micro than another one for everybody rule.
I started with atmel because a friend give me free access to AVR production
line and development board (STK500, buterfly...)
Ad to this BASCOM compiler which cost near nothing (100$) with huge (and
fast to learn) possibilities, one demo complete version which can compile 4k
(limitation) and you can now understand fully my point, valuable for me,
period :^)
I know alltrax use PIC16F87X so yes PIC can make good controllers, as ATMEL,
as others, just a question of design and programming habilities.
To answer your question:
Is suppose initial comment was because MC68HC05 is intel 8051 core based
which is the most used in the industry, followed now by...ATMEL
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: I want to build a PWM DC motor controller
> You can't get easier to program than the PIC. Many quality cheap,
> powerful programmers out there.
>
> So what does the MC68HC05 have that makes it better? Don't take that as
> sarcastic, I wouldn't be surprised if it has useful features that do
> indeed make it better, I'm just wondering what they are.
>
> Danny
>
> Mark Hanson wrote:
>
> >Actually, there are literally millions of EV, golf cart and fork lift
> >controllers out there in use with the Motorola MC68HC05 when I worked at
> >GE-EV (and now the flash series Freescale MC68HC908). They are easier to
> >program than the PIC using www.pemicro.com multilink programmer and have
> >been reliable in my controllers since the early 80's. You need to do
common
> >point grounding and keep the uP 5V stuff shielded or partitioned away
from
> >the power stuff but it's all done in the same enclosure. All the
presently
> >sold motor speed controls use a uP or uController.
> >
> >BTW, it's a hellova lot easier to buy a controller from Curtis or Otmar
than
> >re-inventing the wheel (unless you like to experiment, spend money & blow
up
> >stuff :-)
> >
> >Have a Renewable Energy Day, Mark
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well I'm not that deluded about reliability issues. Of course an
external control to disable the hardware gate driver would be a great
idea, in addition to the interrupter. And any conditions which could
destroy the hardware would be something to look at. It would be a good
idea to make the gate driver itself prohibit them if possible.
Emergency shutdowns for human emergencies running through a computer...
yeah that makes me wince too. I think there's differences here, and I'm
still saying the key or other obvious control should disable the gate
driver regardless of whether it's an ASIC/discrete or controller
originating the PWM signal.
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It seems to me that there are two basic reasons why people want to build
their own controller:
1) For the education.
2) The (generally) mistaken believe that they will save money.
If you are doing it for the education and can afford letting the smoke out
of expensive components, then go for it.
If you want to save money, I have an alternative suggestion. Get yourself
a part time job (McDonalds, WalMart greeter, whatever). In less time than
you would have spent trying to build a working controller you can earn
enough money to buy a brand new one and save all the cash that you would
have spent on expensive smokeless components.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I stumbled across this 3-wheeler web site for electric/gas. Looks like a 3
wheeled Delorean.
(Jerry - just teasing about the competition bit...)
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No battery (as LISTers know), lasts forever. The
"life of the vehicle" is currently calculated at
around 10 years, according to people I've read RE: the
auto industry. That life continues to lengthen over
the years, of course.
--- keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I also have a 2000 insight
> Honda replaced the batt at 58,000 mi. I now have
> 99,600 mi and have been keeping the batt "Bars" near
> the top all the time in hopes of getting even more
> miles that the first.one. I drive over 100 mi every
> day and have 1700 ft of elevation change in 50 mi so
> it gets lots of work.
> BTW the gas savings alone have more than paid for
> the
> car even if I have to buy another battery.
>
> --- bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > EVLN(Honda makes batteries last longer by not
> taxing
> > them too
> > heavily)
> > [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For
> Public
> > EV
> > informational purposes. Contact publication for
> > reprint rights.]
> > --- {EVangel}
> > http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05335/615060.stm
> > Behind the Wheel: Batteries designed to last as
> long
> > as vehicles
> > Thursday, December 01, 2005
> > By Don Hammonds, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
> >
> > Q: I have a 2000 Honda Hybrid with 63,000 miles.
> Do
> > you know what
> > the life of the battery is?
> >
> > ED LARIO Pittsburgh
> >
> > A: I pitched your question to Honda spokesman
> Chris
> > Naughton.
> >
> > "Honda designed the battery to last the life of
> the
> > vehicle," he
> > said.
> >
> > "We applied lessons that we learned as far back as
> > our
> > all-electric vehicle, the EV Plus. "What we
> learned
> > from that car
> > and applied on our hybrids is how to make the
> > batteries last
> > longer by not taxing them too heavily.
> >
> > "What I mean by that is we don't charge the
> > batteries fully or
> > dispel the energy completely. Doing either one of
> > those things
> > greatly distresses the battery. So we operate the
> > batteries in
> > our hybrids within a sweet spot."
> >
> > By the way, ever wonder what would happen in an
> > accident in which
> > there was damage to the battery?
> >
> > The battery has small quantities of alkaline
> liquid
> > that is
> > corrosive to human tissue. But in the finished
> > battery cells, the
> > electrolytes are non-liquid and sealed in a metal
> > case. The
> > electrolyte is non-flammable, non-explosive and
> > creates no
> > hazardous fumes or vapors in normal operating
> > conditions or even
> > in a fire.
> >
> > As for replacement cost, I've had figures quoted
> as
> > a "couple
> > thousand dollars" or so. I'd figure on around at
> > least $2,000 to
> > replace your battery.
> > -
> >
> >
> >
> > Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
> >
> > ' ____
> > ~/__|o\__
> > '@----- @'---(=
> > . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> > . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> > . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> > ===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
> > http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________
> Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
> Just $16.99/mo. or less.
> dsl.yahoo.com
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops. here is the web address: http://www.gorillavehicles.com/Doran.htm
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: December 28, 2005 6:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Competition for Jerry's Freedom EV?
I stumbled across this 3-wheeler web site for electric/gas. Looks like a 3
wheeled Delorean.
(Jerry - just teasing about the competition bit...)
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela,
Michaela Merz wrote:
Rich Rudman wrote:
All our measuremnts can be made using normal units.
so lets keep them that way.
AFAIK, there is no 'normal' unit to define the range of an EV.
The normal units for a range are, well, "miles".
The range will always be miles (or kilometers).
This is why
I suggested to agree on some new formula that takes (almost) all factors
into account and is relatively easy to measure, even for newbies. DOD
could be measured by drop in voltage (all we need is a handy spreadsheet
that shows approx. DOD percentages in regard to battery voltage).
The factors you are talking about even easily measurable for newbies
are all "individual" and different, so direct comparison of
EVs makes little sense - so many factors affect the range.
How can you put in formula driving habits which affect
the range of otherwise identical cars, batteries battery ages,
terrains, cargo weights, and bunch of other parameters impossible
to have identical? All those can in theory be formalized in
a formula with a bunch of fudge factors, but I'm afraid it
won't be really that useful.
In general, 80% DOD is limit agreed upon for 100% discharged
(for driving purposes) pack. If you know your average energy per
mile consumption, you know your average range.
Energy can be precisely measured but hardly can be accurately
predicted for new user/conversion. As I said and you probably
experienced, consumption greatly depends on the driver's skill
to drive an EV - something you can't really formalize in numbers.
My 2mm.
Victor
--- End Message ---
