EV Digest 5050
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: My Favorite DragTimes.com Comment!
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Ampabout ... Dude, that's so Old School!
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Ampabout ... Dude, that's so Old School!
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Reverse for Direct Drive (was S10 reverse)
by Justin Southam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Reverseing a siamese motor - Off the wall Idea
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Mt Favorite DragTimes.com Comment!
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: If I build it, will it perform? Or, do I need to go with "more power"
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Tax Credit for Conversion
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) A step beyond PHEV?
by "Jaroslaw \"Jaros\" Berezowski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: A step beyond PHEV?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Zombie at DragTimes Web Site
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 24ah 240vdc Li Ion pack.
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Odyssey batteries
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Need to ask a general question about torque converters
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Clutch of Misubishie PU .
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: "White Zombie" now in the top 100 cars
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) clutch for Mitsubishi pu with 11" net gain motor
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) My 83 mits
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Ah, that clarifies.
BTW - I had not even noticed the "Mt" until you mentioned it.
I must be a little more than less dyslectic ;-)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of John Wayland
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: My Favorite DragTimes.com Comment!
Hello to All,
First my apologies for the goofy typo Mt Favorite.....geesh! I'm sure
everyone knows I meant for the title to read 'My Favorite DragTimes.com
Comment!
Cor van de Water wrote:
>John,
>
>Did you list Blue Meanie? Where?
>
>
>
No, I did not list it, because I have no time slips for it, thus, it
does not qualify for the DragTimes.com site. There's two explanations
for this, however:
(1) Under the 'Timeslip Comments' section of White Zombie's Timeslip
page, Rod Wilde mentioned Blue Meanie and gave a link for it when
responding to the poster 'Wolfer':
(Wolfer)
And street legal! Now that's what I need for running back and forth to
work, of course we'd have to get rid of the stickers for even more fun...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Roderick Wilde)
Hey Wolfer, Here is a direct link to "Plasma Boy's" ultra clean
unassuming little Datsun that blows em away at the traffic lights. A
true "sleeper" http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/
(2) At White Zombie's Timeslip page, there is also a link to the Plasma
Boy Racing web page, and of course, once there, anyone can check out
Blue Meanie.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce,
It looks like you're using an IU algorithm, as given from the US
Battery webpage, and that works well with the Rudman PFC charger
(an IU charger). I thought we were supposed to charge our
floodeds with an IUI algorithm. Aside from knowing that there
are as many different ways to charge batteries as there are EV
drivers, this does seem to be a genuine discrepancy.
On the "Old School" that that guy belt out to you, I rarely pay
attention anymore to what people out in the general public say
about AFVs. Typically, if you end up having any kind of
discussion with them, you find that their knowledge is very
shallow and that they are really just trying to razz you, and so
if they are unpleasant, it's walk-away time. On the other hand,
if the person seems genuinely interested, I do make it a point to
try and have an informative discussion with them.
Chuck
Bruce Parmenter wrote Friday, December 30, 2005 3:51 PM:
[snip]
>
> Looking at the usbattery.com FAQ page:
> http://www.usbattery.com/pages/usbspecs.htm
> [Charge batteries] at C÷10 amperes, (where C = the 20 hour
capacity
> of the system expressed in Ampere Hours) until the battery
voltage
> rises to 2.583 Volts per cell (i.e. 7.75 volts for a 6V
battery).
> Hold this voltage constant for 2 to 4 hours, and stop charging.
>
> A similar method would be to charge at the following upper
limits
> and terminate the charge when the time limit is reached:
> * Charge Current = C÷10 Amperes
> * Charge Voltage = 2.583 Volts per Cell
> * Charge Time = 10 Hours Battery temperature adjustment: reduce
the
> voltage by 0.028 Volts per Cell for every 10°F above 80°F,
increase
> by the same amount for temperatures below 80°F.
>
>
> My pack is made up of 22 US-125 batteries (66 cells).
Originally
> when I set my PFC-30 it was for an 80°F pack temperature (66*
> 2.583)= 170.478. Now, my pack is in the 50°F range. That is
30°F
> cooler.
>
> I made an equation to calculate the new finishing voltage:
> (66 * (2.583 + (((80-50)/10) * .028))= 176.022
> 176 VDC will now be the voltage I should set the charger to for
a
> 50°F pack. So I changed my finishing voltage from 171 to 176
VDC.
>
[snip]
> Now that I have better charge, the pack seems stiffer, and more
> power. I truly saw this as last weekend I went south to
Cupertino
> and used half my range. On the drive down, I set my EV to draw
100
> Amps holding a pack voltage of 125 VDC, I had my typical 55 mph
> speed and got 2.2 AHrs per mile.
>
> Before changing the charger finishing voltage I did not achieve
> this, my range was less and performance was mushy. Looks like I
> needed a good charge to get the most out my pack.
>
[snip]
> When I stopped and parked at a store, while walking the parking
lot
> toward the entrance, a couple of teenage boys were back behind
me
> also heading in. Although my EV no longer has the "ELECTRIC"
decals
> in multiple places, one of the teenagers must have seen the HOW
> sticker.
>
> He yelled at "Hey is that Electric?" I nodded yes with smile
and
> turned back to head in. He then yelled, "Dude, that is so Old
> School!" and began talking trash about how there are cars that
when
> you smell the exhaust it smells like French fries.
>
> I am pretty sure that he no only was dissing my EV for being
> old-fashioned, but I was also sure that he was not an authority
on
> any AFVs.
[snip]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chuck Hursch wrote:
On the "Old School" that that guy belt out to you, I rarely pay
attention anymore to what people out in the general public say
about AFVs. Typically, if you end up having any kind of
discussion with them, you find that their knowledge is very
shallow and that they are really just trying to razz you, and so
if they are unpleasant, it's walk-away time.
Or, if you are the confrontational type: when you see them filling up at
a gas station the next time it would be your turn to say -> "Gassin'
your car up, huh? Man, that is sooo Old School!"
:-D
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and Happy New Year to All,
Have you considered a 3rd small motor in front of the siamese twins (you
did leave some shaft sticking out the front didn't you :-)), with a 1204
and a couple of those baby hawkers to drive it. A 1 to 2 HP motor will be
more than enough. I was going to suggest using a sprague clutch but i don't
think you'd need one as rule of thumb, lower HP motors tend to be smaller
diameter and therefore better able to handle high RPM. I'm sure Jim H will
have just the thing. Aha... Siamese triplets :-). There are a few issues
like throttle control, but i'm sure you don't need any advice from me on
sorting them out.
Cheers,
Justin
Now i think about it the motor could be permenantly connected, forget the
clutch.
At 09:28 31-12-05 -0800, you wrote:
>Hello to All,
>
>Interesting post, Dennis. The new rules NEDRA has been formulating for
>the SC class and another yet-to-be-announced class, will require a
>working reverse, so the Zombie's going to have to have it soon. In
>addition, it's a pain not having reverse. Currently, if I park the
>Zombie nose first into my backyard EV shop, I have to use the Heavy
>Metal Garden Tractor and a tow rope to pull it up and out my EV shop's
>long, sloping driveway to get it out to the street. It's also a bit
>embarrassing to have the track guys push your car backwards if you
>over-shoot the staging lights :-( Finally, keeping the everyday
>streetability theme going makes having reverse a no-brainer. It's no
>easy task though, when your electric motor draws 2000 amps, it's all
>interconnected with beefy 4/0 cables, and losses through contactor tips
>are to be kept at a minimum.
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>My conversion is coming along again at least 1-2k a large ge type motor
>>direct to a 9+in. ford air locker rear(no tranny).Reverse a must can go
through a
>>standard reversing contactor arangement
>>
>
>I am working on several ideas for adding a simple reverse to White
>Zombie, but using a reversing contactor set is not one of the options
>for me. The reversing sets rely on spring pressure to keep the normal
>motor circuit connected, and use the magnetic pull of the contactor
>coils to engage reverse. Passing 2000 amps through spring pressure
>contact pads is nonsense, wasteful of power, and is a prescription for
>welded contacts. When I'm scratching and clawing for precious 10ths of a
>second, adding a reversing contactor set that 'will' detract from the
>2000 amp motor loop circuit, is out of the question.
>
>>...or, Can I use a small starter motor
>>through a ring gear setup on my ge drive motor? This setup could be made
very
>>easy,only adding 9lbs. Dennis Berube
>>
>>
>
>I'm thinking of a belt drive idea that would use a pulley mounted to the
>Ford nine inch's input flange and a light weight 12V DC motor with a
>de-clutching drive pulley at the motor shaft. This setup would protect
>the reversing motor from being force-revved at super high rpm, but the
>pulley of the motor clutch would still be spinning at ~21,000 rpm due to
>the ~ 3:1 ratio needed!
>
>A gear-on-gear thing, where the reversing motor is pulled into a larger
>gear mounted to the Ford nine inch's input flange, via a strong solenoid
>or by simply using a starter motor, is another idea I have, very similar
>to your ring gear on the electric motor idea. This last version has the
>advantage in that when not in reverse, the 12V drive motor and its drive
>gear, are not forced to spin at all.
>
>Dennis, your 'other idea' you didn't mention, the super cool idea of
>using the flyback diodes of the Zilla controller and a 12V battery to
>turn the drive motors into a shunt wound that reverses direction can
>work, but man, 700-800 amps from the little 12V, 16 ahr Hawker Genesis
>would drain it pretty fast, and the extra contactor and multiple BIG
>cables isn't something I want to add to the now sano looking under-hood
>area. I could, add an extra 24 lb. Hawker Aerobattery and dedicate it
>to this use, and 700-800 amps from it would be no big deal, but along
>with the big cabling, large contactor, and battery bracketry, this would
>add 40 lbs. to my EV....not good for racing.
>
>Hey list folks, any creative but light weight reverse ideas for a high
>powered direct drive drag - street car?
>
>See Ya.....John Wayland
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
It's early AM here in Portland, 5-something, as I prepare to head over
snow covered Mt. Hood this morning for two days of forklift wrenching in
central Oregon's Bend area. Hopefully, I'll be able to catch Matt Graham
for lunch, as I hear he's visiting the area through today....Matt, lost
your phone number, please connect with Jim Husted and I'll check in
around 10:00 this morning? It would be fun to have an EVer's late lunch,
the three of us, say 1:00-ish? Maybe we can get Bend-ite Doug Weathers
to meet up with us, too.
The point of this post, is the excitement over seeing an electric car
poised to hit #10 in the run for the February featured TimeSlip spot at
Dragtimes.com! How cool is all this? I've got lots of friends voting
each day, so thanks all of you. Don't forget to vote for Matt's 240SX
and Rod's RX7, too....I just did!
See Ya......John Wayland
For lunch plans contact Jim H. at Hi Torque Electric, 541-458-6140
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's an off the wall idea.
Will the NHRA rules allow this to be a manually operated mechanical device?
Also, is the reverse just needed to tweak the car back slightly at the line?
If so, since the Zombie is direct drive, utilize the old clutch pedal and
set up as a mechanical device to move the car in reverse.
This should be doable with some lightweight gears, a cam lock arrangement,
and a spring return pedal.
Should be lightweight, and if geared properly, shouldn't take much force to
accomplish on a flat surface with a lightweight vehicle such as the Zombie.
Dumb idea or is this possible?
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 11:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Reverseing a siamese motor
Hey All
Couple of thoughts here. Although Waylands "We need more cable Captain"
philosiphy, and an 8" diameter motor has limited him with the ability of an
ABR. A 9"er would be easier to do because of the increase in diameter. The
biggest problem is that there is generally not enough window space to allow
you to swing a lever 90 degrees. Chris just posted some pics ( The big one)
and one of them shows an older style 2 window CE plate that would be ideal.
On a smaller four window plate you'd have to mill the windows down or create
a slid path through the end of the plate. I don't see rotating plates as
being feasable due to the torque, and the shear effort it would take to do
it. Although Waylands Siamese are actually comm. outies ; 0 would it
better if both comm's were located in the middle.
Possible Pros:
Being able to move both levers easier as they are close together.
Being able to vent both comms with a common vent hood.
Fans at both ends of motor.
Possible Cons:
Comms get hotter being closer together.
The point above is I believe comm placement will soon be where do you want
them.
As I see it creating a 90 degree swing motor is doable. Getting it to be
a viable workable reverse system would require you good gentlemen to work
out.
Happy New Year All
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Andre' Blanchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 04:07 PM 1/1/2006, you wrote:
>Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
>>How about if the brush rigging was adjustable enough, rotating the
>>brush rigging 90 degrees?
>>weight added <10 lbs! Just a lever, perhaps with a cable and a vernier
>>to dial in advance once in FWD position, and a couple of microswitches
>>to drop out main contactor if the lever is not in one of the 2 positions.
>>
>On the Zombie's Siamese 8, against mild protests over how much work it
>would be to do so, I had Jim stuff in twin parallel 4 gauge brush
>interconnect leads at each brush end bell, to make sure all 2000 amps
>got delivered to all the brushes :-) Because of this, the brush
>riggings would be close to impossible to make rotateable (is that a
>word?). It's pretty well stuffed at each end bell. It was difficult
>enough to do this on the monster sized 13 inch 'Yellow Beast', and was
>only doable because of how huge the spaces are inside this thing. Even
>with the bigger spaces, the movable brush rigging and its multiple runs
>of flexible 4 gauge interconnects was difficult to pull off, thanks to
>Jim's artisan talents though, he pulled it off.
It would not work on your twin, if I remember correctly the coms were in the
center between the two motors.
But on a single motor rather then rotating the brush rigging it would likely
be easier to rotate the entire end bell. The armature connections would need
to be located in the end bell. That way the only wires that need to flex are
external to the motor and can be made long enough to do so without much
problem.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey John, Matt, All
I've thrown my 3 volts out this morning. Nice to see MM listed there now.
Anyway I just thought I'd let ya know I'm throwing my votes everyday. on a
side note to the over voting deal. My boys bring their computers over and we
all play over here. Both Matt and Dan wanted to vote to. The site saw us all
as the same IP and they reported I voted already : (
BTW how can anyone see MM do its lift off and not be impressed.
Anyways just thought I'd let you know I'm doing my one a days, lol
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello to All,
It's early AM here in Portland, 5-something, as I prepare to head over
snow covered Mt. Hood this morning for two days of forklift wrenching in
central Oregon's Bend area. Hopefully, I'll be able to catch Matt Graham
for lunch, as I hear he's visiting the area through today....Matt, lost
your phone number, please connect with Jim Husted and I'll check in
around 10:00 this morning? It would be fun to have an EVer's late lunch,
the three of us, say 1:00-ish? Maybe we can get Bend-ite Doug Weathers
to meet up with us, too.
The point of this post, is the excitement over seeing an electric car
poised to hit #10 in the run for the February featured TimeSlip spot at
Dragtimes.com! How cool is all this? I've got lots of friends voting
each day, so thanks all of you. Don't forget to vote for Matt's 240SX
and Rod's RX7, too....I just did!
See Ya......John Wayland
For lunch plans contact Jim H. at Hi Torque Electric, 541-458-6140
---------------------------------
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just hit all 3 and will continue each day.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: John Wayland [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Mt Favorite DragTimes.com Comment!
Hello to All,
Oh man.....my side is still aching!!!
>(J. Marvin Campbell)
>I would kill everyone in this room for a clone of "Blue Meanie":^O
See Ya....John Wayland
Voted for Matt's and Rod's cars today (and of course, mine too)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Likewise,
I have voted from home and work, and about any other computer I happen to sit
down at......
I suggest that the three voting lines be added to your sig line. Kind of a one
stop shop for anybody that is getting reminded.... Yes I could add the mto my
favorites/bookmarks, but like I said I vote from any computer I happen to be
on. It is easier to just open an email and there they are....click,click,click.
Stay Charged!
Hump
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Datsun-1200-Timeslip-7484.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: 1/3/2006 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
Hey John, Matt, All
I've thrown my 3 volts out this morning. Nice to see MM listed there
now. Anyway I just thought I'd let ya know I'm throwing my votes
everyday. on a side note to the over voting deal. My boys bring their
computers over and we all play over here. Both Matt and Dan wanted to
vote to. The site saw us all as the same IP and they reported I voted
already : (
BTW how can anyone see MM do its lift off and not be impressed.
Anyways just thought I'd let you know I'm doing my one a days, lol
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello to All,
It's early AM here in Portland, 5-something, as I prepare to head over
snow covered Mt. Hood this morning for two days of forklift wrenching in
central Oregon's Bend area. Hopefully, I'll be able to catch Matt Graham
for lunch, as I hear he's visiting the area through today....Matt, lost
your phone number, please connect with Jim Husted and I'll check in
around 10:00 this morning? It would be fun to have an EVer's late lunch,
the three of us, say 1:00-ish? Maybe we can get Bend-ite Doug Weathers
to meet up with us, too.
The point of this post, is the excitement over seeing an electric car
poised to hit #10 in the run for the February featured TimeSlip spot at
Dragtimes.com! How cool is all this? I've got lots of friends voting
each day, so thanks all of you. Don't forget to vote for Matt's 240SX
and Rod's RX7, too....I just did!
See Ya......John Wayland
For lunch plans contact Jim H. at Hi Torque Electric, 541-458-6140
---------------------------------
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had an Electro Metro as you describe with 14ea 6V batts (84V). I used all
5 gears though for best performance and top speed was 65mph. About average
geo-metro type acelleratuion and I drove the freeway to GE-EV EVery day
25miles one way and charged at work (paid back $8 per month). I later
switched to 8Ver's for 112V (didn't use 5th then), same 30 mile range and
better aceleration performance but 84V was ok though and the 6Vers lasted
longer, about 14k miles vs 10k for the 8vers (and cheaper too, ie, Sams)
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 11:52 AM
Subject: If I build it, will it perform? Or, do I need to go with "more
power"
> I'm considering my options on the "small car" commuter EV that I was
planning
> on building. Having owned 3 "poor performing" EVs in the past 6 years, I
> don't want to repeat that situation. If if won't perform, I won't build
it. My
> goals have been and still are:
>
> 1. Good acceleration - 0 - 45 MPH in ~15 sec or less (faster is better!)
> 2. Speed - Capable of 55 MPH, even though I don't plan to take it over 45
MPH
> 3. Hill climbing - We have them, and it needs to be able to make it up a
> "decent grade" at 35 MPH
> 4. Range - 15 miles round trip - same route every day 25 - 45 MPH city
> traffic. Stop signs about every 0.75 - 1 miles. Actual mileage = 6.2
miles each
> way, but 15 miles gives me a buffer for stopping at a store on the way
home.
> 5. Late model - parts still available for at least the next 5 years.
>
> I already have the following parts:
> 1. Series wound 7.2" x 15" fork lift motor
> 2. GE EV-1B controller - 84 V with 1A bypass (I have no idea what the
> continuous rating on the controller is, but I am guessing about 150 A). I
wanted to
> build my own 144 V / 600 A controller, but I have been talked out of it.
> 3. Main contactor
> 4. Other misc parts left over from my other cars
>
>
> Two options:
>
> First option - "The less expensive car"
> 1992 Ford Festiva - I actually like the way is looks and low curb weight
> manual trans - retain clutch - use 2nd and 3rd gear only
> EV-1B controller (150 A cruise, 84 V / 500 A full power for acceleration /
> steep hill climbing)
> - I realize this controller will reduce battery life because of the
300
> Hz SCR switching speed, but maybe I can help it with some caps.
> 84 V - 14 x 6 V golf cart batteries (Sams Club)
> - Dispersed around the car
> - 4 in far rear - sunk low through cut out in floor
> - 4 center of car behind front seats (remove rear seats) - floor
level
> - 2 where front pass seat was - floor level
> - 4 in front where radiator was - sunk low
> - Not the best batteries, but usable. Maybe I'd spring for some
T-125's.
>
> Charger
> - www.northerntool.com, 72 V / 10 A charger + 1 12 V deep cycle 10 A
> charger
> Modifications
> - I didn't plan to modify the suspension or brakes with only 800 lb of
> batteries dispersed around the car, sunk low front and rear, I think it
will be
> OK with stock suspension and brakes.
> Cost (parts only):
> $500 - donor car - 1992 Festiva - 130,000 miles - running condition
> $200 - batt boxes - home made
> $140 - controller + two main disconnect contactors one on the +ve and
one
> on the -ve (already have them)
> $50 - pot box (used)
> $50 - main fuse and contactor drivers + other spare parts (salvage
lift
> parts)
> $160 - motor (I already have it)
> $265 - motor coupler and mounting plate - my design - material only -
> labor not included
> $200 - Charger #1
> $40 - Charger #2
> $125 - 2/0 welding cable + terminals (I'm not sure about this cost)
> $770 - batteries - ~$55 / ea including tax
> $65 - aux battery
>
> $2565 Total
> -$320 Tax credit (12.5% - 10% State of GA + 2.5% Federal for 2006)
> $2245 Net cost
>
> Notes:
> - NO DC - DC convertor
> - Little to no instrumentation (although I can get current reading off the
> EV-1, and voltage off the pack)
>
>
> With all that said and detailed out, I have several concerns.
> 1. I don't want to build an "electric jalopy". I've owned 3, and have no
> need for another.
> 2. Is the motor at 7.2" undersized to much?
> 3. Only 84 V ? Can I meet my acceleration requirements with the EV-1B and
1A
> bypass?
> 4. The charger - really may be too slow to recharge 12 miles of range over
a
> 12 hour period. It may not work for that reason.
> 5. Handling if I don't modify the suspension / brakes.
>
>
> Second Option:
> - 1993 Ford Festiva (last year made), Chevy Metro 2 door (last year
> made), Honda Civic hatchback (early 90's)
> - 9" Warp or ADC
> - 14 x 12 V = 168 V Optima batteries
> - 1k Zilla controller
> - PFC 20 Charger
> - DC - DC convertor
> - power steering off aux motor
> - bower brakes off vac booster
> - retain two front seats - remove others
> - sink batts low for low CG center, front and rear - that's a lot of
> cutting through the floor.
> - e-meter with instrumentation
> - some type of suspension and handling upgrades dependent on donor car
>
> Projections:
> Acceleration - FAST! - And I would look forward to that!
> Top Speed - 80+ MPH
> Range - >30 miles
> Cost - Parts ~$7500 (Please correct me if I am way off)
>
> The question becomes, what direction should I take? One option is to
build
> with the 9" motor, but still use the 84 V controller with bypass and 14 x
6 V
> batteries and inexpensive charger. Later upgrade if "used parts" become
> available.
>
> But, if the first option can give me decent acceleration, it may work just
> fine for meeting my original needs. So, my question is: Does anyone have
any
> experience using the EV-1 with bypass at 84 V with a 7" x 15", 36 V lift
motor?
> It may work just fine. But, if I build it, I'd sure like to be sure it
will
> work.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh to live in a land where the government subsidizes EVs. Maybe CanEV can
correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's 0% here. Same for installing
solar: 0%. About the only thing that we get incentives for is insulating our
houses better.
-Mike
On 12/31/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> I was just reviewing the federal tax form and found out that they are
> reducing the tax credit for conversions. Conversions placed into service
> in 2005
> (ending today) get a 10% credit. Starting tomorrow, the credit is only
> 2.5%.
> That sure doesn't make me very happy. Also, I see that credits offered by
> my
> home state (Georgia) are not what they used to be. They are offering a
> 10%
> credit as well, but it used to be $2500 a few years ago. I seem to
> remember
> people buying NEVs (basically golf carts) and getting them free after the
> tax
> credit.
>
> Does anyone know the plans for these credits after 2006? It seems to me
> (from the federal form at least) that it may just go away after 2006. I
> think we
> should all write congress and try to get this thing reversed and back to
> 10%.
> It may not seem like much, but on $6000 worth of conversion parts, I could
> have got a credit of $1200. If I can finish within a year, I can only get
> $750.
> Thats a pretty big deal to me. I was counting on the $1200.
>
> Steve
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would like to incorporate such device into BEV....
http://delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2005-01-1172.pdf
--
Jaroslaw "Jaros" Berezowski
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Jan 2006 at 15:58, Jaroslaw "Jaros" Berezowski wrote:
> I would like to incorporate such device into BEV....
> http://delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2005-01-1172.pdf
>
There are serious problems, as the paper's writer admits at the outset :
"For the H2 PEM FCEV case, the fuel cell is attractive in power density and
range compared to battery EVs. But first cost and reliability remain even
greater challenges than for hybrids and this is compounded by the
requirement for high purity H2 as the fuel. Also H2 is energy intensive to
make, distribute and store and its economic feedstocks remain natural gas
and coal for the foreseeable future. So there will be no marked reduction in
CO2 emissions for PEM FCEVs compared to current hybrids and diesels until
H2 is made from cost effective renewable sources (no time soon)."
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just posted a comment on John's page telling people who want more info on
EV drag racing or an EV drag race near them to go to the NEDRA page. Maybe
we will get a few curious folks at the Florida event.
Roderick Wilde
President, NEDRA
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.11/219 - Release Date: 1/2/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To me the numbers look like 8 cells = 24v , 8 x 24ah = 192 ah/cell and
TS at $2 a ah would come in around $384 so $460 is not to bad
24ah x 24v = 576 wh / $480 looks like $1.25 per w-hr. Now I left off a 0 as
the web site is talking 24v ,.
of course my math may be wrong .
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 5:00 PM
Subject: RE: 24ah 240vdc Li Ion pack.
Lawrence, this pack (not including the charger) is $6.25 per W-hr. That
is
about 5 times more expensive that the Kokam batteries. You may want to
take
a look at the Kokam's the use for RC planes. They may be powerful enough.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: December 24, 2005 11:12 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: 24ah 240vdc Li Ion pack.
http://www.cyclone-usa.com/Cyclone%20Data%20Sheet%2011-01-2005.pdf The
pack
would be really light. The pack is 4600 dollars the charger 1000 dollars.
Does that make sense for a small electric vehicle?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all ,,, Don who is also doing a s-10 with a net gain 13 " asked me about
these batteries for his project , he is thinking of using 28 of them and a 2k
zilla , his 10 mile dirve to work and back and maybe some other short distance
driving. anybody know anything about them , I'll forward your replay.
steve clunn
Do you know anything about Odyssey batteries?
I think I read that they are an improved Hawker Genisis with thicker
plates. I don't know about either but I am considering buying the Odyssey
PC1200T 44AH , 38.2 LB. , 3 year replacement with 2 year prorate
warrenty,500 cycles 80%,12 year design life,2400 short circuit amps,1200
cranking amps,630 cold cranking amps.
Do you or do you know anyone who knows these batteries,or has experience
with them?
I would like to find out if these are better than orbitals?
Thank you
Don Davin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice web page , Looks like we will have new info on using a automatic
transmission , when your done.how are you lining up the motor to tranny ?
Steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: Need to ask a general question about torque converters
Actually I am using a GM Hyundai 4 speed automatic "performance"
transmission in my Saab conversion. I have the option through the
transmission computer or directly by 4 solenoids to control the shift
points and lockup of the torque converter. Today's autos are a lot more
efficient than those of yesteryear when designers were not concerned about
fuel efficiency.
Practically the spring plate is easier to couple to the motor than a
normal flywheel. Since I control the shift points, the motor RPM is under
my control, not a preset level determined by pressures inside the valve
body. Also by using the automatic, my other power equipment will function
normally. I plan to keep the TC spinning at about 300 RPM, which will
drive my power steering, etc. The complexity of electronic controlled
transmissions I believe scares some people off from using them. To me it
is just another challenge. I have already overcome a lot of them in my
conversion.
Just my two cents worth.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: Need to ask a general question about torque converters
Hi Jeff, Seth and All,
I like this idea as it allows a higher
top end, more lower end power about 10 mph, probably less
below that, with it's torque multiplication. This will great
reduce the amps needed for starting so one could use a lower
amp controller.
By getting one with a lock up you avoid
most of the eff problems. Generally it's is about 90-95% eff
without lock up I think or it would overheat.
You would want to get one that locks up
as low rpm as possible so to stay in your motor high torque
band and/or have a high pack voltage that can force current
into it.
I believe the pumps were for powering
the servos and not needed for the torqoe converter.
And there are industrial ones though
pricy that come self contained.
Seth,
Isn't the Saturn automatic actually a
manual trans driven be servo's to increase eff using a
clutch? If so it's going to be more eff than other
automatics if you can arrange the shifting points to manual.
As it's all the same unit as the manual because they wanted
to save part numbers, you could get a manual shift kit for
it. As there are many built and long runs they are very
easy, cheap to get used parts, new for.
It should hold batteries better and
doesn't rust the body skin so it should be good looking for
yrs, important when it comes time to sell.
You can buy whole dead cars for $200 so
that's the way to get parts you might need, stripping it of
any you might need. And it's aero should be better than any
of the other except some models of the Civic.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: Need to ask a general question about torque
converters
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:37:10 -0800
If I was to place a torque converter in place of the
clutch and use a standard transmission, how would that
work/notwork?
Could I set the controller for an idle rpm to run
accessories and then just step on gas to accelerate from a
stop. In this way leaveing it in say 3rd gear since the
torque converter would give me some multiplication off line
and then perhaps lock in the TCC if above x mph and < y
throttle?
Could I shift or would I get a bad whirrrr-bang?
Has anyone seen a good writeup on using an automatic
without the torque converter?
I heard a whisper that my father's Prius arrives
in the end of January....and then I hope to get
the 1996 Saturn...I would love to be "ready to run with
it"...
An Internet parts search found manual
transmissions from $150 to $450 for this car...?!
It might be worth $150 to save the effort,
it might not be worth $450.
(I probably do have a real mechanic on my team :-)
(Or just trade it for a {civic|metro|festiva} with a stick?
:-)
(Thanks for your patience :-)
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John Wayland My luck ,right when I need some info on getting a clutch
for my Mitsubishi pu , my post don't seem to go through to the EVDL , anyway
I and a 2k 300v zilla and 11 net gain motor coming and all going in the Mits
. Right now with the old adc 9 and 1k , I can feel the clutch slip , so want
to do something before bbb. Off the site where your car is ( yes I'm voting
every day ) I found this ,
http://www.dragtimes.com/MITSUBISHI-LIGHT-TRUCK-SUV-VAN-MONTERO-Centerforce-DFX-Clutch-01515004-c1153.html
but you may know of something better , I'd like/need to keep it under 500
dollars , . any thoughts , before I buy the wrong thing?
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You mean fast electric's ,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 12:05 PM
Subject: "White Zombie" now in the top 100 cars
"White Zombie" an electric drag car is now listed in the top 100 cars out
of 6,601 cars at www.dragtimes.com Keep them votes comming. We should fill
this site up with as many electrics as possible.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm getting my 83 Mitsubishi ready for the BBB drag's and am finding the
weak links , one by one . The motor , a old 9 " adc has me re learning some
stuff I learned a while ago. This was my 5th conversion and has been through 2
owners . It sat around a year , When setting it up with the new parts I spun
the motor on a 12v battery and though at the time it wasn't spinning very
fast for 12v , . I put a 1k zilla and 22 orbitals in and it didn't take much
go peddle before I started hearing a shhhhh and a drop in power , . Well I
decided to pull one brush and found it stuck in the brush holder , I've seen
worse where pulling with pliers could hardly get them out but these weren't
moving easy . Took them out one by one and with just a little rubbing they
started sliding fine again . Trunk ran much better but some of the brushes
where chipped , one 1/4 gone . So I'm going easy with it for now , and
ordered a net gain 11 as I can see this 9 motor and a 2k ( which I hope to
have before BBB day ) would not make it . I'll get the 9 out and use him for
another low power project. What I'm finding out as the 9 gets broken it is
that now the clutch is slipping at about 400 amps when in 3ed gear . What
would people recommend of a clutch , and where to get it . I'm not looking
for the best , just a lot better :-) .
I weighted it and right now its 3250 lbs .
The next week link is the rear , its not a posi rear , This I don't think I
can do anything about before the 21st.
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm getting my 83 Mitsubishi ready for the BBB drag's and am finding the
weak links , one by one . The motor , a old 9 " adc has me re learning some
stuff I learned a while ago. This was my 5th conversion and has been through
2
owners . It sat around a year , When setting it up with the new parts I spun
the motor on a 12v battery and though at the time it wasn't spinning very
fast for 12v , . I put a 1k zilla and 22 orbitals in and it didn't take much
go peddle before I started hearing a shhhhh and a drop in power , . Well I
decided to pull one brush and found it stuck in the brush holder , I've seen
worse where pulling with pliers could hardly get them out but these weren't
moving easy . Took them out one by one and with just a little rubbing they
started sliding fine again . Trunk ran much better but some of the brushes
where chipped , one 1/4 gone . So I'm going easy with it for now , and
ordered a net gain 11 as I can see this 9 motor and a 2k ( which I hope to
have before BBB day ) would not make it . I'll get the 9 out and use him for
another low power project. What I'm finding out as the 9 gets broken it is
that now the clutch is slipping at about 400 amps when in 3ed gear . What
would people recommend of a clutch , and where to get it . I'm not looking
for the best , just a lot better :-) .
I weighted it and right now its 3250 lbs .
The next week link is the rear , its not a posi rear , This I don't think I
can do anything about before the 21st.
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
