EV digest 5051

Tue, 03 Jan 2006 13:31:49 -0800 

                            EV Digest 5051

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Odyssey batteries
        by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: "White Zombie" now in the top 100 cars
        by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
        by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: If I build it, will it perform?  Or, do I need to go with "more power"
        by "Clif Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: 24ah 240vdc Li Ion pack.
        by "Don Cameron \(New Beetle EV\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Parallel String Connection
        by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
        by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) 69 is here!
        by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10) Re: clutch for Mitsubishi pu with  11" net gain motor
        by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
        by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
        by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Need to ask a general question about torque converters
        by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
        by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: clutch for Mitsubishi pu with  11" net gain motor
        by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
        by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: clutch for Mitsubishi pu with  11" net gain motor
        by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
        by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message --- 
Steve;

I've been looking at the 1200 and the 1700.
I think you will find that they are a lot pricier than Orbitals or other
sealed types.
The additional money may be worth it if they hold up as long as they are
advertising.
I have not come across anyone that has any experience with them.

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: STEVE CLUNN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Odyssey batteries

Hi all ,,, Don who is also doing a s-10 with a net gain 13 " asked me about
these batteries for his project , he is thinking of using 28 of them and a
2k zilla  , his 10 mile dirve to work and back and maybe some other short
distance  driving. anybody know anything about them , I'll forward your
replay. 
steve clunn 


Do you know anything about Odyssey batteries?
 I think I read that they are an improved Hawker Genisis with thicker
plates. I don't know about either but I am considering buying the Odyssey
PC1200T 44AH , 38.2 LB. , 3 year replacement with 2 year prorate
warrenty,500 cycles 80%,12 year design life,2400 short circuit amps,1200
cranking amps,630 cold cranking amps.
 Do you or do you know anyone who knows these batteries,or has experience
with them?
 I would like to find out if these are better than orbitals?
                                      Thank you
                                      Don Davin

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Fast or quick are very nebulous terms. About like trying to tell a gas head how many horsepower electric motors have. I just tell them the "Maniac Mazda" has two twenty horsepower motors . That usually gets them :-) I then go on to explain the concepts of continuous ratings versus maximum ratings, etc., etc. 

Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: "White Zombie" now in the top 100 cars



You mean fast electric's ,
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 12:05 PM
Subject: "White Zombie" now in the top 100 cars
"White Zombie" an electric drag car is now listed in the top 100 cars out of 6,601 cars at www.dragtimes.com Keep them votes comming. We should fill this site up with as many electrics as possible. 

Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com




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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Tim, Great idea to post the direct URLs. For those who can't find an email with the direct URLs, do to our increased volume of mail, go to the NEDRA website, www.nedra.com. For the time being they are listed on the front page. As this grows we may have to put a link there to them. Keep them votes coming. I awoke this morning to the "Maniac Mazda" already in the top 100. 

Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:45 AM
Subject: RE: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!



Likewise,
I have voted from home and work, and about any other computer I happen to sit down at......
I suggest that the three voting lines be added to your sig line. Kind of a one stop shop for anybody that is getting reminded.... Yes I could add the mto my favorites/bookmarks, but like I said I vote from any computer I happen to be on. It is easier to just open an email and there they are....click,click,click. 

Stay Charged!

Hump

http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Datsun-1200-Timeslip-7484.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html



Original Message -----------------------


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: 1/3/2006 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!

Hey John, Matt, All

 I've thrown my 3 volts out this morning.  Nice to see MM listed there
now.  Anyway I just thought I'd let ya know I'm throwing my votes
everyday.  on a side note to the over voting deal. My boys bring their
computers over and we all play over here.  Both Matt and Dan wanted to
vote to.  The site saw us all as the same IP and they reported I voted
already : (
 BTW how can anyone see MM do its lift off and not be impressed.
 Anyways just thought I'd let you know I'm doing my one a days, lol
 Cya
 Jim Husted
 Hi-Torque Electric


John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 Hello to All,

It's early AM here in Portland, 5-something, as I prepare to head over
snow covered Mt. Hood this morning for two days of forklift wrenching in

central Oregon's Bend area. Hopefully, I'll be able to catch Matt Graham

for lunch, as I hear he's visiting the area through today....Matt, lost
your phone number, please connect with Jim Husted and I'll check in
around 10:00 this morning? It would be fun to have an EVer's late lunch,

the three of us, say 1:00-ish? Maybe we can get Bend-ite Doug Weathers
to meet up with us, too.

The point of this post, is the excitement over seeing an electric car
poised to hit #10 in the run for the February featured TimeSlip spot at
Dragtimes.com! How cool is all this? I've got lots of friends voting
each day, so thanks all of you. Don't forget to vote for Matt's 240SX
and Rod's RX7, too....I just did!

See Ya......John Wayland

For lunch plans contact Jim H. at Hi Torque Electric, 541-458-6140





---------------------------------
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less




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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Hi Mark,
I'm considering a 96V metro conversion. Was your metro a hatchback or sedan? Where were your batteries located? What motor, controller, and charger did you have on the metro. What DOD was the car at after 25 miles? What speeds did you commute at? Any other thoughts? 

Thanks,
Clif
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: If I build it, will it perform? Or, do I need to go with "more power"
I had an Electro Metro as you describe with 14ea 6V batts (84V). I used all 5 gears though for best performance and top speed was 65mph. About average 
geo-metro type acelleratuion and I drove the freeway to GE-EV EVery day
25miles one way and charged at work (paid back $8 per month).  I later
switched to 8Ver's for 112V (didn't use 5th then), same 30 mile range and
better aceleration performance but 84V was ok though and the 6Vers lasted
longer, about 14k miles vs 10k for the 8vers (and cheaper too, ie, Sams)
Mark
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 11:52 AM
Subject: If I build it, will it perform? Or, do I need to go with "more
power"



I'm considering my options on the "small car" commuter EV that I was

planning

on building.  Having owned 3 "poor performing" EVs in the past 6 years, I
don't want to repeat that situation.  If if won't perform, I won't build

it.  My

goals have been and still are:

1. Good acceleration - 0 - 45 MPH in ~15 sec or less (faster is better!)
2. Speed - Capable of 55 MPH, even though I don't plan to take it over 45

MPH

3. Hill climbing - We have them, and it needs to be able to make it up a
"decent grade" at 35 MPH
4. Range - 15 miles round trip - same route every day 25 - 45 MPH city
traffic.  Stop signs about every 0.75 - 1 miles.  Actual mileage = 6.2

miles each

way, but 15 miles gives me a buffer for stopping at a store on the way

home.

5. Late model - parts still available for at least the next 5 years.

I already have the following parts:
1. Series wound 7.2" x 15" fork lift motor
2. GE EV-1B controller - 84 V with 1A bypass (I have no idea what the
continuous rating on the controller is, but I am guessing about 150 A). I 
wanted to

build my own 144 V / 600 A controller, but I have been talked out of it.
3. Main contactor
4. Other misc parts left over from my other cars


Two options:

First option - "The less expensive car"
1992 Ford Festiva - I actually like the way is looks and low curb weight
manual trans - retain clutch - use 2nd and 3rd gear only
EV-1B controller (150 A cruise, 84 V / 500 A full power for acceleration / 
steep hill climbing)
    - I realize this controller will reduce battery life because of the

300

Hz SCR switching speed, but maybe I can help it with some caps.
84 V - 14 x 6 V golf cart batteries (Sams Club)
    - Dispersed around the car
        - 4 in far rear - sunk low through cut out in floor
        - 4 center of car behind front seats (remove rear seats) - floor

level

        - 2 where front pass seat was - floor level
        - 4 in front where radiator was - sunk low
    - Not the best batteries, but usable.  Maybe I'd spring for some

T-125's.


Charger
    - www.northerntool.com, 72 V / 10 A charger + 1 12 V deep cycle 10 A
charger
Modifications
- I didn't plan to modify the suspension or brakes with only 800 lb of 
batteries dispersed around the car, sunk low front and rear, I think it

will be

OK with stock suspension and brakes.
Cost (parts only):
    $500 - donor car - 1992 Festiva - 130,000 miles - running condition
    $200 - batt boxes - home made
    $140 - controller + two main disconnect contactors one on the +ve and

one

on the -ve (already have them)
    $50 - pot box (used)
    $50 - main fuse and contactor drivers + other spare parts (salvage

lift

parts)
    $160 - motor (I already have it)
    $265 - motor coupler and mounting plate - my design - material only -
labor not included
    $200 - Charger #1
    $40 - Charger #2
    $125 - 2/0 welding cable + terminals (I'm not sure about this cost)
    $770 - batteries - ~$55 / ea including tax
    $65 - aux battery

    $2565 Total
    -$320 Tax credit (12.5% - 10% State of GA + 2.5% Federal for 2006)
    $2245 Net cost

Notes:
- NO DC - DC convertor
- Little to no instrumentation (although I can get current reading off the 
EV-1, and voltage off the pack)


With all that said and detailed out, I have several concerns.
1. I don't want to build an "electric jalopy".  I've owned 3, and have no
need for another.
2. Is the motor at 7.2" undersized to much?
3. Only 84 V ? Can I meet my acceleration requirements with the EV-1B and 
1A

bypass?
4. The charger - really may be too slow to recharge 12 miles of range over 
a

12 hour period.  It may not work for that reason.
5. Handling if I don't modify the suspension / brakes.


Second Option:
    - 1993 Ford Festiva (last year made), Chevy Metro 2 door (last year
made), Honda Civic hatchback (early 90's)
    - 9" Warp or ADC
    - 14 x 12 V = 168 V Optima batteries
    - 1k Zilla controller
    - PFC 20 Charger
    - DC - DC convertor
    - power steering off aux motor
    - bower brakes off vac booster
    - retain two front seats - remove others
    - sink batts low for low CG center, front and rear - that's a lot of
cutting through the floor.
    - e-meter with instrumentation
- some type of suspension and handling upgrades dependent on donor car 

Projections:
    Acceleration - FAST! - And I would look forward to that!
    Top Speed - 80+ MPH
    Range - >30 miles
    Cost - Parts ~$7500 (Please correct me if I am way off)

The question becomes, what direction should I take?  One option is to

build

with the 9" motor, but still use the 84 V controller with bypass and 14 x

6 V

batteries and inexpensive charger.  Later upgrade if "used parts" become
available.
But, if the first option can give me decent acceleration, it may work just 
fine for meeting my original needs.  So, my question is: Does anyone have

any

experience using the EV-1 with bypass at 84 V with a 7" x 15", 36 V lift

motor?

It may work just fine.  But, if I build it, I'd sure like to be sure it

will

work.

Suggestions?

Thanks,

Steve

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Yeah, I got it all messed up.

Victoria, BC, Canada

See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/



Quoting STEVE CLUNN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> To me the numbers look like 8 cells = 24v ,   8 x 24ah = 192  ah/cell  and 
> TS at $2 a ah would come in around $384 so $460 is not to bad
> 24ah x 24v = 576 wh / $480 looks like $1.25 per w-hr.  Now I left off a 0 as
> 
> the web site is talking 24v ,.
> of course my math may  be wrong .
> Steve Clunn
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 5:00 PM
> Subject: RE: 24ah 240vdc Li Ion pack.
> 
> 
> > Lawrence,  this pack (not including the charger) is $6.25 per W-hr.  That
> 
> > is
> > about 5 times more expensive that the Kokam batteries.  You may want to 
> > take
> > a look at the Kokam's the use for RC planes.  They may be powerful
> enough.
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> > Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> > www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> > Sent: December 24, 2005 11:12 AM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: 24ah 240vdc Li Ion pack.
> >
> > http://www.cyclone-usa.com/Cyclone%20Data%20Sheet%2011-01-2005.pdf  The 
> > pack
> > would be really light.  The pack is 4600 dollars the charger 1000
> dollars.
> > Does that make sense for a small electric vehicle?
> > Lawrence Rhodes
> > Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> > Reedmaker
> > Book 4/5 doubler
> > Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> > 415-821-3519
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> 
> 


-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
When hooking up two parallel battery strings, is there a preferred way to
run the connection cables?  For example, make the B+ connection of the
controller the common point, running three separate cables from there to
Pack One Positive, Pack Two Positive and Motor A1 respectively?

For extra safety, I'm planning on having three circuit breakers, one on each
string's positive terminal, and a common one for the negative terminals.
Overkill, maybe, but it will allow me to turn off each string independently
if need be, plus turn off both positive and negative concurrently. 

Thanks.

Bill Dennis

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
There is an error on nedra.com, the link to MM and Matt car are the same.

cordialement,
Philippe

Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
 http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!


> Tim, Great idea to post the direct URLs. For those who can't find an email
> with the direct URLs, do to our increased volume of mail, go to the NEDRA
> website, www.nedra.com. For the time being they are listed on the front
> page. As this grows we may have to put a link there to them. Keep them
votes
> coming. I awoke this morning to the "Maniac Mazda" already in the top 100.
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:45 AM
> Subject: RE: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
>
>
> > Likewise,
> >
> > I have voted from home and work, and about any other computer I happen
to
> > sit down at......
> >
> > I suggest that the three voting lines be added to your sig line. Kind of
a
> > one stop shop for anybody that is getting reminded....  Yes I could add
> > the mto my favorites/bookmarks, but like I said I vote from any computer
I
> > happen to be on. It is easier to just open an email and there they
> > are....click,click,click.
> >
> > Stay Charged!
> >
> > Hump
> >
> > http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
> > http://www.dragtimes.com/Datsun-1200-Timeslip-7484.html
> > http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
> >
> >
> >
> > Original Message -----------------------
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: [email protected]
> > Sent: 1/3/2006 9:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!
> >
> > Hey John, Matt, All
> >
> >  I've thrown my 3 volts out this morning.  Nice to see MM listed there
> > now.  Anyway I just thought I'd let ya know I'm throwing my votes
> > everyday.  on a side note to the over voting deal. My boys bring their
> > computers over and we all play over here.  Both Matt and Dan wanted to
> > vote to.  The site saw us all as the same IP and they reported I voted
> > already : (
> >  BTW how can anyone see MM do its lift off and not be impressed.
> >  Anyways just thought I'd let you know I'm doing my one a days, lol
> >  Cya
> >  Jim Husted
> >  Hi-Torque Electric
> >
> >
> > John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  Hello to All,
> >
> > It's early AM here in Portland, 5-something, as I prepare to head over
> > snow covered Mt. Hood this morning for two days of forklift wrenching in
> >
> > central Oregon's Bend area. Hopefully, I'll be able to catch Matt Graham
> >
> > for lunch, as I hear he's visiting the area through today....Matt, lost
> > your phone number, please connect with Jim Husted and I'll check in
> > around 10:00 this morning? It would be fun to have an EVer's late lunch,
> >
> > the three of us, say 1:00-ish? Maybe we can get Bend-ite Doug Weathers
> > to meet up with us, too.
> >
> > The point of this post, is the excitement over seeing an electric car
> > poised to hit #10 in the run for the February featured TimeSlip spot at
> > Dragtimes.com! How cool is all this? I've got lots of friends voting
> > each day, so thanks all of you. Don't forget to vote for Matt's 240SX
> > and Rod's RX7, too....I just did!
> >
> > See Ya......John Wayland
> >
> > For lunch plans contact Jim H. at Hi Torque Electric, 541-458-6140
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.11/219 - Release Date:
1/2/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.11/219 - Release Date: 1/2/2006
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- The "Maniac Mazda" just moved into the 69th position. It's a good position, out of 100, but I want to move on into the top 50 :-)
Roderick Wilde 


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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Hello John,  Rod,  and Matt
        Just voted for all three of ya.  I also sent a request to all our
club members (FVEAA) to vote.  Most members are not on this list, but now
they know.  Might be a good idea if others on this list do the same for
their clubs.
> 
> http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
> http://www.dragtimes.com/Datsun-1200-Timeslip-7484.html
> http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
> 
> 
Good luck
        John Emde
Co-ordinator for the High Voltage Nationals   May 13, 2006  at Joliet,
Illinois

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Steve,
When I replaced ours back in May, Bill Dube' had pointed me towards
www.clutchnet.com for the RX-7's tire smoking torque, and according to Bill
the owner claims "It vill nott shlipp!". Although I went with a cheap
clutch pack just to get it back on the road for my daughter (after
determining the adapter plate and motor hub are junk, and the vehicle is
rusted out, so we are no longer looking for just an RX-7 as a new glider),
clutchnet quoted $185 for the Copper-Copper Pro #2 disc and $175 for the
type 1 pressure plate. The bearing and alignment tool was $35, so close to
$400 for everything. Our local import parts store mentioned
www.centerforce.com which was around $400 also. As they say, you have to
pay to play!
Hope this helps,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenagers)
1989 GM (General Murderers of the EV-1!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa only!)


>From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:30:37 -0500
>
>I'm getting my 83 Mitsubishi ready for the BBB drag's and am finding the
>weak links , one by one . The motor , a old 9 " adc has me re learning some
>stuff I learned a while ago. This was my 5th conversion and has been
>through 2
>owners . It sat around a year , When setting it up with the new parts I spun
>the motor on a 12v battery and though at the time it wasn't spinning very
>fast for 12v , . I put a 1k zilla and 22 orbitals in and it didn't take much
>go peddle before I started hearing a shhhhh and a drop in power , . Well I
>decided to pull one brush and found it stuck in the brush holder , I've seen
>worse where pulling with pliers could hardly get them out but these weren't
>moving easy . Took them out one by one and with just a little rubbing they
>started sliding fine again . Trunk ran much better but some of the brushes
>where chipped , one 1/4 gone . So I'm going easy with it for now , and
>ordered a net gain 11 as I can see this 9 motor and a 2k ( which I hope to
>have before BBB day ) would not make it . I'll get the 9 out and use him for
>another low power project. What I'm finding out as the 9 gets broken it is
>that now the  clutch is slipping at about 400 amps when in 3ed gear .  What
>would people recommend of a clutch , and where to get it . I'm not looking
>for the best , just a lot better :-)  .
>I weighted it and right now its 3250 lbs .
>
>The next week link is the rear , its not a posi rear , This I don't think I
>can do anything about before the 21st.
>Steve Clunn
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
OK, time to change the subject line to "Electric Car in top 10!"

--

Stefan T. Peters

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Thanks John for posting this great idea. When are you putting up your folk's car? 

Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!



Hello John,  Rod,  and Matt
       Just voted for all three of ya.  I also sent a request to all our
club members (FVEAA) to vote.  Most members are not on this list, but now
they know.  Might be a good idea if others on this list do the same for
their clubs.


http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Datsun-1200-Timeslip-7484.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html



Good luck
       John Emde
Co-ordinator for the High Voltage Nationals   May 13, 2006  at Joliet,
Illinois





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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 

Hi Steve and All,
I have machine drawings and templates to the back of the engine, the original engine dowels, etc. I am having a hub machined that will match the motor shaft to the spring plate (starter ring). The motor will be mounted dead center on the adapter plate. When I had the machine drawings made the motor mounting holes were also drawn on the mylar templates. Because of the way the hub is designed and simulates the back of the crankshaft the TC will be centered.
Once I have the hub and the spacer and have machined out the aluminum plate, I should be ready to install the motor.
Keep an eye out on my website. I will be showing the motor platform and mounts I am currently installing very soon. 

Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: Need to ask a general question about torque converters
Nice web page , Looks like we will have new info on using a automatic transmission , when your done.how are you lining up the motor to tranny ? 
Steve clunn
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: Need to ask a general question about torque converters
Actually I am using a GM Hyundai 4 speed automatic "performance" transmission in my Saab conversion. I have the option through the transmission computer or directly by 4 solenoids to control the shift points and lockup of the torque converter. Today's autos are a lot more efficient than those of yesteryear when designers were not concerned about fuel efficiency.
Practically the spring plate is easier to couple to the motor than a normal flywheel. Since I control the shift points, the motor RPM is under my control, not a preset level determined by pressures inside the valve body. Also by using the automatic, my other power equipment will function normally. I plan to keep the TC spinning at about 300 RPM, which will drive my power steering, etc. The complexity of electronic controlled transmissions I believe scares some people off from using them. To me it is just another challenge. I have already overcome a lot of them in my conversion. 

Just my two cents worth.


Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: Need to ask a general question about torque converters




            Hi Jeff, Seth and All,
                   I like this idea as it allows a higher
top end, more lower end power about 10 mph, probably less
below that, with it's torque multiplication. This will great
reduce the amps needed for starting so one could use a lower
amp controller.
                    By getting one with a lock up you avoid
most of the eff problems. Generally it's is about 90-95% eff
without lock up I think or it would overheat.
                    You would want to get one that locks up
as low rpm as possible so to stay in your motor high torque
band and/or have a high pack voltage that can force current
into it.
                   I believe the pumps were for powering
the servos and not needed for the torqoe converter.
                    And there are industrial ones though
pricy that come self contained.

                   Seth,
                  Isn't the Saturn automatic actually a
manual trans driven be servo's to increase eff using a
clutch? If so it's going to be more eff than other
automatics if you can arrange the shifting points to manual.
As it's all the same unit as the manual because they wanted
to save part numbers, you could get a manual shift kit for
it. As there are many built and long runs they are very
easy, cheap to get used parts, new for.
                   It should hold batteries better and
doesn't rust the body skin so it should be good looking for
yrs, important when it comes time to sell.
                   You can buy whole dead cars for $200 so
that's the way to get parts you might need, stripping it of
any you might need. And it's aero should be better than any
of the other except some models of the Civic.

                             HTH's,
                                  Jerry Dycus

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: Need to ask a general question about torque
converters
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:37:10 -0800


If I was to place a torque converter in place of the
clutch and use a standard transmission, how would that
work/notwork?

Could I set the controller for an idle rpm to run
accessories and then just step on gas to accelerate from a
stop. In this way leaveing it in say 3rd gear since the
torque converter would give me some multiplication off line
and then perhaps lock in the TCC if above x mph and < y
throttle?

Could I shift or would I get a bad whirrrr-bang?



Has anyone seen a good writeup on using an automatic
without the torque converter?

I heard a whisper that my father's Prius arrives
in the end of January....and then I hope to get
the 1996 Saturn...I would love to be "ready to run with
it"...

An Internet parts search found manual
transmissions from $150 to $450 for this car...?!
It might be worth $150 to save the effort,
it might not be worth $450.
(I probably do have a real mechanic on my team :-)

(Or just trade it for a {civic|metro|festiva} with a stick?
:-)

(Thanks for your patience :-)

Seth

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!
We get the message race fans---but do we really need the blow-by-blow
coverage?
Or is there some part of the cheerleading that I don't get?

A flawed voting system is nearly worthless in really reflecting interest or
popularity---and you all agree that the drag site's voting system is flawed.
So other than asking us all to vote (which you've done now at least a dozen
times) and trying to get exposure for EVs, I don't get the importance of
being the 1st, 2nd or 3rd in a rigged beauty contest.  It just shows who has
the most friends, sycophants or dupes.

Don't get me wrong.
I enjoy watching EVs kick guzzler ass and I love all these particular racing
EVs.
I've paid many a dragstrip entrance fee merely to watch many of you race and
will continue to do so.  I'm your best cheerleader and I'll likely never
build a fast car to challenge your dominion.

Yet I get the impression that if EVs weren't fast, some on this list
wouldn't own one.

Maybe I'm wrong-

-Slow EVer (Myles Twete, Portland, Or.)
        26ft Reach Of Tide ( http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/492.html )
        27L  Milburn 1921 ( http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/348.html )

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
The cheapest option is to get a grabbier clutch disk (might lead to
chatter on takeoff if you slip the clutch). Kennedy Engineering
Products makes lightweight pressure plates with more clamping force 
-- this is good for smooth takeoffs with the stock disk (if you slip
the clutch). Some of the centerforce clutches increase clamping force
with RPM, great for a gas motor but not what you really want for an
electric.
 
> >From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:30:37 -0500
> >
> >I'm getting my 83 Mitsubishi ready for the BBB drag's and am
> finding the
> >weak links , one by one . The motor , a old 9 " adc has me re
> learning some
> >stuff I learned a while ago. This was my 5th conversion and has
> been
> >through 2
> >owners . It sat around a year , When setting it up with the new
> parts I spun
> >the motor on a 12v battery and though at the time it wasn't
> spinning very
> >fast for 12v , . I put a 1k zilla and 22 orbitals in and it didn't
> take much
> >go peddle before I started hearing a shhhhh and a drop in power ,
> . Well I
> >decided to pull one brush and found it stuck in the brush holder ,
> I've seen
> >worse where pulling with pliers could hardly get them out but
> these weren't
> >moving easy . Took them out one by one and with just a little
> rubbing they
> >started sliding fine again . Trunk ran much better but some of the
> brushes
> >where chipped , one 1/4 gone . So I'm going easy with it for now ,
> and
> >ordered a net gain 11 as I can see this 9 motor and a 2k ( which I
> hope to
> >have before BBB day ) would not make it . I'll get the 9 out and
> use him for
> >another low power project. What I'm finding out as the 9 gets
> broken it is
> >that now the  clutch is slipping at about 400 amps when in 3ed
> gear .  What
> >would people recommend of a clutch , and where to get it . I'm not
> looking
> >for the best , just a lot better :-)  .
> >I weighted it and right now its 3250 lbs .
> >
> >The next week link is the rear , its not a posi rear , This I
> don't think I
> >can do anything about before the 21st.





        
                
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. 
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- I admit we are getting a bit overzealous. Concerning not owning electrics that don't go fast. I have owned several and I have to admit I prefer at least enough performance to keep up with the best of the traffic. I have been very embarrassed holding traffic up on hills. I prefer not letting people know it's electric when it's that slow. My friend even hopped up his 1902 Studebaker electric and its wickedly scary now at almost 20 mph. I love your Milburn! and personally have great respect for historical vehicles and keeping them as original as possible. All my friend did on his Studebaker was to reduce the field strength on his shunt wound motor. It is still a beautiful restoration. Here is a pic of it: http://www.econogics.com/ev/studebak.jpg My friend is the guy with the beard :-) Thanks Myles for all your support in the past. 

Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message ----- From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: Electric Car just 44 Votes away from Grabbing the #10 Spot!



Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!
We get the message race fans---but do we really need the blow-by-blow
coverage?
Or is there some part of the cheerleading that I don't get?
A flawed voting system is nearly worthless in really reflecting interest or popularity---and you all agree that the drag site's voting system is flawed. So other than asking us all to vote (which you've done now at least a dozen 
times) and trying to get exposure for EVs, I don't get the importance of
being the 1st, 2nd or 3rd in a rigged beauty contest. It just shows who has 
the most friends, sycophants or dupes.

Don't get me wrong.
I enjoy watching EVs kick guzzler ass and I love all these particular racing 
EVs.
I've paid many a dragstrip entrance fee merely to watch many of you race and 
will continue to do so.  I'm your best cheerleader and I'll likely never
build a fast car to challenge your dominion.

Yet I get the impression that if EVs weren't fast, some on this list
wouldn't own one.

Maybe I'm wrong-

-Slow EVer (Myles Twete, Portland, Or.)
26ft Reach Of Tide ( http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/492.html )
27L  Milburn 1921 ( http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/348.html )




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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
The Dial-a-Clutch folks have some good info on their site to help with
choosing the right setup.  There are factors to consider such as pedal force
required and holding force as disc wears/etc. that should be considered.

HYPERLINK
"http://www.dialaclutch.com/progoldstorecont.htm"http://www.dialaclutch.com/
progoldstorecont.htm

I plan on using one of their LuK Pro Gold systems on my 240V,
WarP/Hi-Torque Electric motor, 1000amp Honda Civic.  Since the torque output
of my conversion has grown substantially since first deciding on this
clutch, it would be wise for me to review my choice, since the LuK Pro Gold
is more of hi quality HD unit rather than a racing clutch.  Input from the
list is welcome.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 12:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: clutch for Mitsubishi pu with 11" net gain motor

 

The cheapest option is to get a grabbier clutch disk (might lead to

chatter on takeoff if you slip the clutch). Kennedy Engineering

Products makes lightweight pressure plates with more clamping force 

-- this is good for smooth takeoffs with the stock disk (if you slip

the clutch). Some of the centerforce clutches increase clamping force

with RPM, great for a gas motor but not what you really want for an

electric.

 

> >From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> >Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:30:37 -0500

> >

> >I'm getting my 83 Mitsubishi ready for the BBB drag's and am

> finding the

> >weak links , one by one . The motor , a old 9 " adc has me re

> learning some

> >stuff I learned a while ago. This was my 5th conversion and has

> been

> >through 2

> >owners . It sat around a year , When setting it up with the new

> parts I spun

> >the motor on a 12v battery and though at the time it wasn't

> spinning very

> >fast for 12v , . I put a 1k zilla and 22 orbitals in and it didn't

> take much

> >go peddle before I started hearing a shhhhh and a drop in power ,

> . Well I

> >decided to pull one brush and found it stuck in the brush holder ,

> I've seen

> >worse where pulling with pliers could hardly get them out but

> these weren't

> >moving easy . Took them out one by one and with just a little

> rubbing they

> >started sliding fine again . Trunk ran much better but some of the

> brushes

> >where chipped , one 1/4 gone . So I'm going easy with it for now ,

> and

> >ordered a net gain 11 as I can see this 9 motor and a 2k ( which I

> hope to

> >have before BBB day ) would not make it . I'll get the 9 out and

> use him for

> >another low power project. What I'm finding out as the 9 gets

> broken it is

> >that now the  clutch is slipping at about 400 amps when in 3ed

> gear .  What

> >would people recommend of a clutch , and where to get it . I'm not

> looking

> >for the best , just a lot better :-)  .

> >I weighted it and right now its 3250 lbs .

> >

> >The next week link is the rear , its not a posi rear , This I

> don't think I

> >can do anything about before the 21st.

 

 

 

 

 

            

                        

__________________________________ 

Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. 

http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/

 

 

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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 

On Jan 3, 2006, at 6:03 AM, John Wayland wrote:


Hello to All,
It's early AM here in Portland, 5-something, as I prepare to head over snow covered Mt. Hood this morning for two days of forklift wrenching in central Oregon's Bend area. Hopefully, I'll be able to catch Matt Graham for lunch, as I hear he's visiting the area through today....Matt, lost your phone number, please connect with Jim Husted and I'll check in around 10:00 this morning? It would be fun to have an EVer's late lunch, the three of us, say 1:00-ish? Maybe we can get Bend-ite Doug Weathers to meet up with us, too.
Bummer, I'm sick today. Possibly tomorrow - we'll see if I manage to kick this cough. Looking good so far. I'll call Jim this afternoon and check in.
The point of this post, is the excitement over seeing an electric car poised to hit #10 in the run for the February featured TimeSlip spot at Dragtimes.com! How cool is all this? I've got lots of friends voting each day, so thanks all of you. Don't forget to vote for Matt's 240SX and Rod's RX7, too....I just did! 

See Ya......John Wayland

For lunch plans contact Jim H. at Hi Torque Electric, 541-458-6140


I believe that number should be 541-548-6140.





--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>

--- End Message ---

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