EV Digest 5053
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Heaters and Chargers
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV Geo: Question about Battery Boxes
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV Geo: Question about Battery Boxes
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: EV Geo: Question about Battery Boxes
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) What an EVentful day
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Heaters and Chargers
by "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Reverseing a siamese motor, interpoles and ABR's
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Madman is back from MG
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Mac tool box
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Heaters and Chargers
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Reverseing a siamese motor
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Fast EVs, slow EVs - both still electric
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: A question for the eletric motor gurus..Contaminants
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) battery monitor suggestions
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EV Geo: Question about Battery Boxes
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Interpoles was Reverseing a siamese motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Clutch advice & vacuum pump
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV Geo: Question about Battery Boxes
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Interpoles was Reversing a Siamese motor
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Heaters and Chargers
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Parallel String Connection
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Reverseing a siamese motor was Re: Interpoles, was..
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Would it be better to put an electric heater core in the original
water heater core box and use the original fan or use a complete aux
heater ?? 90 Geo metro
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Roland wrote:
> >The problem is, that when you used a 1500 or 3000 watt heater in
the
> >same place the hot water unit is in, its taking outside cold air
> >which cools it down too much.
> >
> >What I did was rework the ductwork so it circulates the inside
air
> >with a tiny bit of out side air. I am only using a 1000 watt hot
> >water heater in this same location. This works good for
defrosting
> >the windshield which the water can be even at 50 degrees in a
super
> >insulated holding tank.
>
> Actually, my Honda was already ducted this way. When set to
> recirculate, air is drawn from inside the car not outside. I
don't
> think it is 100%, but it is close enough that you have to reopen
it
> to outside air or the windows will fog from the humidity from the
> driver's and passenger's breath.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
> In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
> position. (Horace)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The battery boxes in my Saturn are alluminum, a very good conductor. I got
several cans of rubberized vehicle undercoating and liberally coated the
insides of the boxes with it. I can stick my multi meter probes on it and get
no conduction unless I press hard enough to break through it. Just make sure
you use this stuff in a well ventillated area. It will go on thick.
Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Some list members may recall the EV
Geo listing on ebay a few weeks ago. Well anyway, I ended up placing the
winning bid.
Cosmetically it is a nice looking EV. No batteries came with it and so how it
really drives remains to be seen.
It has 2 battery boxes. Both boxes are made of 1/8" stainless steel. Their
exterior sides are upholstered to match the car interior. But inside, they are
just exposed stainless steel and so electrically conductive.
Normally one really doesn't want conductivity inside the boxes right? Can I
just brush on a couple coats of paint as "shielding"? Other suggestions are
welcome.
Mark Freidberg
EAA member in Portland
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark,
Typically, one goes with welded tubular (square)
stee & angle iron racks, then a polypropy box on the
inside. Polypropy is cheap and non-conductive, but is
built via heat-welding. It's quite an art, but the
results work well. Don't forget a lid, so that
hydrogen generated goes out where you want it to, not
into the car, and keep your air in the compressor
_dry_!
peace,
--- Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Some list members may recall the EV Geo listing
> on ebay a few weeks ago. Well anyway, I ended up
> placing the winning bid.
>
> Cosmetically it is a nice looking EV. No batteries
> came with it and so how it really drives remains to
> be seen.
>
> It has 2 battery boxes. Both boxes are made of
> 1/8" stainless steel. Their exterior sides are
> upholstered to match the car interior. But inside,
> they are just exposed stainless steel and so
> electrically conductive.
>
> Normally one really doesn't want conductivity
> inside the boxes right? Can I just brush on a couple
> coats of paint as "shielding"? Other suggestions
> are welcome.
>
>
> Mark Freidberg
> EAA member in Portland
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Photos
> Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add
> photos, events, holidays, whatever.
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark, I found that "painting" the interior of the boxes to be unreliable for
electrical insulation (simple scratches were to bare metal). In my case, I
needed to thermally insulate the boxes anyways (Canada and our annual 8' of
snowfall) so the 1/2" of foam provided adequate electrical insulation.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Freidberg
Sent: January 3, 2006 6:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: EV Geo: Question about Battery Boxes
Some list members may recall the EV Geo listing on ebay a few weeks ago.
Well anyway, I ended up placing the winning bid.
Cosmetically it is a nice looking EV. No batteries came with it and so how
it really drives remains to be seen.
It has 2 battery boxes. Both boxes are made of 1/8" stainless steel. Their
exterior sides are upholstered to match the car interior. But inside, they
are just exposed stainless steel and so electrically conductive.
Normally one really doesn't want conductivity inside the boxes right? Can
I just brush on a couple coats of paint as "shielding"? Other suggestions
are welcome.
Mark Freidberg
EAA member in Portland
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey All
I had a very Eventful day today with Wayland coming over and Matt Graham and
his brother Mike leaving we were able to cross paths for a brief lunch that
lasted an 1 ½ + lol. It felt like it was more like 20 minutes. Matt and Mike
were able to get to the shop for a fast show and tell before we hooked up with
John for lunch. I got to show Matt what his motor looks like inside, and
inside out so to speak
John was able to throw a few suggestions to Matt as he refines his racer for
Battery Beach and beyond. We all had a great time and at one point John called
Rod and got a play by play on the time slip site. I believe Rod had some fun
in the beginning with some false reporting.
Now this leads me to some thoughts about this time slip voting thread going
on. First I found this really an interesting example of how this group working
together can create awareness. This may be race orientated but for those who
race this is a fun venue and a way for them to expose their EVs. It takes me
very little time to show my support in thanks for the time they have taken to
help myself and others here. Now does that make me all racer?? No way. Im
just as interested in range. I will admit though that after 25 years of
building motors for slow vehicles (and enjoying it) seeing fast EVs just flat
out turns me on ; )
Now I know a lot of you are here for just the tech stuff, but I hope you all
can tolerate a little who-hawing by the racers and fans from time to time. I
know that I find myself reluctant to post a (way to go!) reply to race threads
in fear of over stuffing mailboxes for those not into the race thing. I guess
the way I see it is we are all here for our own particular reason but together
(whether we all agree or not on issues) we form a community. Now lets take the
time slip example and apply it to lets say that tax credit issue. If those out
there who knew could post link to congress, senators, or where ever, we really
could make an impact. Ill be so bold as to say I believe there is not one
among you that realizes the full potential of this group.
Well since I seemed to have wandered onto my soap box let me tell you about
EV interest here in the NW. Not a week goes by that Im not contacted by or
exposing people amazed and interested in whats being done by you all. My son
Matt just got a new roommate who he showed the video of Wayland against the Z06
corvette. He made Matt rewind Johns burnout 3 times, lmao. Heres an
interesting FYI, 90 percent of those contacting me about what it takes to do a
daily electric car are from those who saw Waylands site, or some other racer.
So I can attest to the fact that racers do create interest. I believe that if
the racers were to drift away this list would lose not only invaluable
information and expertise but also much of its flavor, and its diversity.
Getting back to the story
Matt had wanted to get back over the mountain before dark, which leaving at
3:00 I know didnt happen ; (
To top it off John reported snow on the passes, so those poor Floridians are
probably half starved, stuck on Government camp pass, fighting over the
nourishment from the gum left in the ash tray from the previous car renter,
lmao, hehehe.
Wayland was way late now to so we unloaded a shop job and away he went.
Arriving back at the shop I heard Doug Weathers had called to say hed been
fighting a cold and wasnt able to make it. Man that would have been something
if Doug could have added a little plague to the Florida guys trip over Donner
pass, hehehe, SNORT!
I called Doug back and he and I got to exchange some ideas concerning his
adjustable ring assembly I installed on his ADC8. Hes now looking seriously at
making his motor timing adjust on the fly while driving, as apposed to setting
it in a static position and locking it down. The way I see it is how hard can
it be to get a lever to move back and fourth. Now as to the benefits, time
will tell. In the brief moments Wayland and I had at the shop I got to do a
little comm. show and tell. He said hed been thinking about the smaller comm.
on the bigger armature idea Ive been thinking about. We got to talk about the
fact that Matts 9s arent drawing any more amps than the WZs comms. I
believe after seeing some of the larger comm. blow-outs hes thinking it has
enough merit to try it someday. Its always awesome when the master gives his
nod of approval. So much to try so little time.
Thanks for letting me share with you all what a great day we had here today.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's breath, but also water you track in on your coat and shoes, rain
coming in thru opening doors and windows, and leaking window seals.
It would be so cool to have a defroster that backed off when the
windshield reached the dew point inside the cockpit...
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> Actually, my Honda was already ducted this way. When set to
> recirculate, air is drawn from inside the car not outside. I don't
> think it is 100%, but it is close enough that you have to reopen it
> to outside air or the windows will fog from the humidity from the
> driver's and passenger's breath.
- GT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Lee, all
I've never concidered myself to be an overly smart person but I'm smart
enough to listen to the wise. With that said I've found your posts most
informative.
In as much as you are probably right, it is a far easier and cheaper mod of
an existing motor to throw an adjustable brush ring into the motor than to try
and install interpoles.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the 13 inch interpoled motor will work in
Waylands Purple Phase, being it has interpoles and the adjustable brush
rigging. I just aquired another 13 inch interpolled motor, so I so hope your
right ; )
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Christopher Robison wrote:
> I personally think that moveable brushes should be standard equipment
> on *any* series DC EV motor...
They were... 100 years ago. Since then, manufacturers figured out better
ways to do it, with compensating windings, face windings, interpoles,
etc.
But then, manufacturers found they could leave these out, too. Now you
have a special-purpose motor, optimized for one particular voltage and
current. That saved money. The motor is cheaper, and works great at the
specific voltage and speed it was designed for (but no other).
Along come EVers, who have the audacity to think that one motor should
be able to run on a range of voltages, at a range of speeds and loads.
We could go back to adjustable brush rigging; but I think it would be
better yet to put the interpoles back in.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
---------------------------------
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland...
Same battery as IS. Except they programmed the internal brain for NO current
limit.
On second thoughts... maybe a Max limit would have been safer..
But we had NO battery fails once the EV got togther.
We did short a set of 16 out while figuring out the battery rack build up.
Actually John Zick and Shawn did that.. I was on another task at that
moment.
The set up was a recepticle from a Tool, was bolted between a pair of 1 by
1/2 copper buss bars, one on each side, this made for a 16 battery "module"
Most of which was thought up as we went along by John Zick of Milwaukee
Tool. A Battery pack was a pair of these for 96 amphoura @ 28 volts. A Rack
was two of these packs, and a Deck was 2 Racks cabled tother. The Stack was
3 Decks. For a niminal voltage of 336.
Yes we uses 210 stock chargers. The most we ever got on line was about 100.
We backed off when we sucked 103 amps of 120 VAC from the 100 amp Lighting
circuits. The only time we actually got to this power point was Thursday
morning, after we got the batteries out and the paint Crew took over. Or
just before we went Drinking... in ernest.
Nope, no way to get to every comm port on each batter jack...or the bottom
racks for that matter once the Stack was assembled.
The first ideas was 420 batteries and 210 chargers. We could not find a safe
place for the last pack.
Like I said we ran out of 120VAC current before we ran out of chargers.
This is not how I would have done it. But it is the only way to do it...
with what we had on hand.
I brought a PFC30 to the Build... nobody wanted to try it on $42,000 worth
of batteries.
Solving this issue of massivley paralleled Lion packs and BMS and charging
and saftey and GAS Gage, and protection, is somthing few have done....well
or at all.
It's most likley going to be a huge part of my future in chargers and BMS
designs. One way or the other.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Madman is back from MG
> Hello Rich,
>
> I was at Home Depot and happen to see one of the Milwaukee 28 volt battery
pack and charger.
>
> Did they used the tool batteries as is?, or were they modified to bolt on
a buss bar connections.
>
> Did you used the same type of charger that is used on these battery packs?
>
> It looks like that the chargers could be modified, so that all the
batteries could be charge while left in the vehicle. Just slide in a
connection with battery clip leads into the charger and connect to each 28
volt battery.
>
> This would work, if the each battery was not parallel to each other, but
were install in a string of 9 for 252 volts and than the strings were all
parallel together.
>
> Of course it would take 384 chargers if you wanted to charge them all at
the same time.
>
> Roland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:02 AM
> Subject: Re: Madman is back from MG
>
>
> Madman,
>
> I must admit your level of BS is only overshadowed by your self
> confidence.
>
> Thank god you were there to keep it all together.
>
> Are you sure Shawn was even there at all?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Drunk and Worthless (Shawn and John)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 20:14:10 -0800
> Subject: Re: Madman is back from MG
>
> Yea I am Back...
> a Little hacked off... Still amazed at what we did... and that we are
> all
> alive with no burns...
>
> I have to do some reading to catch up on a LOT of threads...
>
> The abuse didn't stop... the MG crew just kept the crap coming.
>
> The West Coast Chopper crew were the fine professionals you would
> expect.
> They deserve a heart felt thanks, they get to straiten out the things
> the MG
> teams don't get right.
> We took about 2.5 hours of thier time...We had one of the cleanest
> builds
> they ever had.
>
> The paint guys were under the impossible time limits we were, They got
> there
> at the crack of dawn like we did... And Busted Butt.
> If we were not at the paint booth at 6:15 am we would not have had a
> chance
> to remove and charge the Z28 Lions. We got very lucky by getting up
> early.
> That would be Shawn and I.
> John was still in the air I don't think he even got any sleep coming in
> from
> Milwaukee.
> After we unloaded the Batteries, Shawn had to run and pick up John Zick
> from
> Millwaukee at the airport.
> This was all happening on Thursday... the day we were supposed to have
> the
> Car from Dawn To dusk for our EV tune ups and testing... Yea... Right...
> At 11:20 am we had all the Z28 Lions charged... and no car to load them
> into...
> The only reasonable thing to do... was simply get Messed up Drunk.
>
> We did that with Team spirt... 100 flavors of Tequila. At Tequila Jack's
> down on the Long Beach water front. 6800 air miles... and No car to
> work
> on.
> We got there at 11:32... two minutes after opening... Right on time I
> would
> say.
> They take away our one day to clean stuff up....Nice..... Gimme another
> one.
> Sara, the Blonde California Barmaid Goddess... did a real good job of
> keeping the EoTH flowing...
> I got tossed the Keys at about 3pm... I was dry by 5pm .... Shawn and
> John... were... getting sloppy by that time.....
> And doing dangerous things with cell phones and Monster Garage phone
> lists...
>
> Oh Boy....What fun...
>
> We got out of the Bar at about 5 pm... got back to the motel...where I
> hear
> they had the bar set up ....without the Check in guy's help...
> We all had a glass of wine ready to go... then Shawn's cell phone
> rings...
> Hey the cars Ready!! Clearly they knew we were drunk... and in no
> shape to
> drive,
> 'Cept for one thing...Madman was Still Clean ... I never downed that
> glass
> of wine. Shawn says Great see ya in 10 minutes with the fresh
> batteries...
>
> I think I could hear the MG guy laughing...when shawn shut his Phone
> off.
>
> Kill mode on.... We all jumped back into the Sub...thank God Shawn
> upgraded
> the Rental!... we were at MG in about 4 minutes...yea I was driving...
> loaded up the 384 Z28 Lions..
> And were at West Coast Choppers in about another 2 minutes... Just in
> time
> to see the MG Guy pull out and leave in haste....
> What the Heck???
>
> We drove into the Paint booth ....just in time to see the paint guy
> spraying
> the Clear coat on..... That kept us off the car until morning....
> Nice here we go again....now we don't even have a late night thrash...
> The
> paint guys have been busting Butt all day. The car is a Sharp Milwaukee
> Tool
> RED with logos and letters. it looks sharp!
> Again the folks at West Coast have done the impossible... But now we
> are out
> of time with 900 lbs of Lions in the back of the Sub.....Our only work
> slot
> is from 5 am on Friday to 7:45 amp when it HAS TO BE on the trailer to
> the
> Track.....160 miles up the road.
>
> So..What do we do..... more drink... lets get some real food instead of
> ...
> the liquid kind...Off to Green Banks Brizillian Steak House... more
> Margaritas... and more Red meat.
> We were back by 10 something to get up at 4:30 to do our best with what
> time
> we had.
>
> This is just Day one down there....
>
> Day two Starts at 4:15 with Shawn and I planning the day in the dark...
> Not
> a LOT of sleep ,just enough...
> More later...
>
>
> MADMAN.
>
> My Redhead is trying to keep me dry on Newyear's Eve.... I really do
> need to
> clense the body... But I am still just a bit to....
> Oh you get the idea.
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's over at the Manzanita Micro shop.
And yes it's got Aluminum and copper shavings blessed into it like holy
water.
It's cool to drive a 350 lbs bench over to the 75K monster, and have just
about every tool I need right there.
I think a steel plate and an Vice would be a nice compliment to it.
I have the 75K parted out for the next build up improvment. I have to get
this thing done once to completion... so I canm get back to Iso chargers and
Reg up dates and such.
This is another "Week After MG" I hope I get back to it in a better fasion
than last time.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: Mac tool box
> Rudman wrote:
>
> > I sent it...
>
> What's the link to it?
>
>
> >now I have to
> > move all 335 lbs of it to the shop....
> >
> > That's gonna take some effort..
>
>
> You've got a forklift don't ya? ;)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh that's an interesting problem.
One thing that comes to mind is silica dessicant, which can be bought in
bulk and can be recharged by heating. Has a very high moisture
capacity. Not sure how fast it is though.
Danny
Mike Chancey wrote:
Actually, my Honda was already ducted this way. When set to
recirculate, air is drawn from inside the car not outside. I don't
think it is 100%, but it is close enough that you have to reopen it to
outside air or the windows will fog from the humidity from the
driver's and passenger's breath.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for this reply, Lee .. you've touched on something I've been
curious about for a while.
> Along come EVers, who have the audacity to think that one motor should
> be able to run on a range of voltages, at a range of speeds and loads.
>
> We could go back to adjustable brush rigging; but I think it would be
> better yet to put the interpoles back in.
What is the benefit of interpoles, vs. variable brush timing? How does
this compensate for the shifting of the field's neutral plane at high
speed, in a way that is better than simply moving the brushes? Is it
because the effect of the interpoles is relatively instantaneous, where
the brushes will lag when being moved?
Clearly, the use of interpoles implies a solid-state solution, and one
which requires no advanced control system -- there's a lot of benefit
there. However, would such windings take up space otherwise used by
windings which are continuously contributing to output torque? (So,
would they sacrifice power to gain efficiency?)
Or would the additional windings go in previously empty space, and add
significant weight to the motor? Would they impair cooling?
If there are no benefits to recommend moveable brushes as superior to
interpoles, I'll be happily corrected on the point, and highly confused
as to why something so simple still isn't making its way into any EV
motor produced today, especially from those who claim to specialize in
the market. A couple extra turns of wire can't be that expensive for the
benefit.
--chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm with ya Doug.
I do it 'cause i can. Many of people whom ask, "what did ya spend on that???"
"You could have bought a running ICE bike!!!"
My response is always, "Yes, i could have. But i can't plug them in."
My current issue is wether or not to put on a HUGE speaker and MP3 player to
make noise so I dont get run over on the bike!
paul
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jeff
I've seen mechanics power-wash 5 Lbs. of crap out of a motor (while in the
lift), let it drip dry a bit and drive off. Recommended? no. These were also
alot lower volt units but Bend Millworks used to power-wash their 72 volt
lifts. Now if there was a weak area in the insulation they'd get a ground and
send it in. Over the years I've found every contaminent known to man inside of
motors. Most would have lasted longer if kept cleaner but majority failed due
to unrelated or combined and multible abuses. Father Time is even infamous for
his submersable motor techniques, or so I've heard...
Now being you boys are running a much higher voltage your concern is
warranted and you'd be wise to keep it out of the water as best you can. As
Rolan and others have pointed out before using a blower creates a possitive
preasure preventing saturation even if the motor gets splashed. As Bob Rice
pointed out a few days back his failures were non-motor related while driving
in wet conditions.
While we are talking contaminants I was surprised to find as much road dust
inside of the Siamese twins as I did from the PIR trips and Woodburn runs when
I had to bust it down after the Zap attack. Someone here linked some pics of a
really nice airfilter setup they made that should be looked at by all you
dailies. The issue with dust and grit is it can cause comm grooving and
streaking. Even those running covers could stand to remove them and give the
motor a good (outdoors) blow out twice a year. This would be a good time to
inpect brush wear and commutation for wear. Better to find you need brushes
and a stoning than to have to turn an armature or worse.
As for your channel 9 news coverage and your heroic channel crossing, you may
want to save that for the gasser. If you do decide to do some puddle jumping
let me know how the data goes, hehehehe.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have been concerned about how I will protect my motors when I
reinstall them down in the tunnel. This is a general motor longjevity
type question. I have heard so many times that electric motors will
outlast most conversions. It rained 2" here in 24 hours. For us, that
means flooded intersections, stalled cars and great news footage, it was
really fun getting to work even in my ICE.(one trick, caught on camera
was my driving with 2 wheels on the center divider curb to keep from
flooding out the motor) The next day 3 electric motors at work, 1 that
drives a cooling tower fan and 2 that circulate water, let out their
smoke. All 3 are drip-proof 3 phase induction motors and all 3 shorted
and arced the stator windings. these are 1hp, 5 hp and 10hp and 3
different companies and ages. They weren't submerged and i was wondering
am I just looking at deterioted stator insulation that got too wet? or
could the the brown outs and surges we have had perhaps did them in. All
the name plates say class h with a service factor of 1.15 and 460Volt,
but we have 480 (477 ) 3 Phase. The wires are very small in these
windings compared to the ADC or Warp.
I can eaisily cover the bottom to enclose the motors and then put in an
exhaust pipe and an inlet and blower up high Is there a best way to make
series DC motors waterproof?
---------------------------------
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
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--- Begin Message ---
What do you guys think i should buy for monitoring the battery pack/usage
on my motorcycle?
Size and weight are the biggest concerns.
Thanks in advance!
Paul
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My battery box is made out of steel angle irons and straps welded together. I
plan to use corroplast (about $11 for a 1/8" x 4' x 8' sheet) as a electrical
insulator between the batteries and the metal. It also comes in colors...
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey Chris, Lee, All
I too would love to hear Lees description on the mechanics of both
interpoles and ABRs. Ive worked on only two types of lift motor that used
interpoles one being the 13 Allis Chalmers and a smaller 10 Toyota of a type
I never saw again. What I know of them is they tend to run slower at lower
amps with increased torque as compared to their 4-poled counterparts.
Now adding interpoles will defiantly cause you to loose more main coil. Even
with motors that are small fielded there would not be room to simply add
interpoles. Okay so lets say we take some main coil away and add interpoles
what youve done is still added coils just some of them little helper coils
between the main guys. Basic rule of thumb for me has been add coils and AMP,
and RPM go down and torque increases. This is why Im interested in trying
coils in series as it provides that same effect (less amps more torque)
An added benefit to interpoles are it makes for friendly regen, if I
understand it correctly. Ive been thinking about the interpoled motors and
whether they are subject to the 170 armature volts that the 4 pole motor are
limited to. Hey Otmar, whats your thought on that? Ever monster test any
interpolled motors?
I do know that it will take a higher current to push the Allis Chalmers motor
to the same RPMs your motor will achieve with less. I cant wait for you guy
to be boiling down the track providing not only some excitement but also some
interesting data Im sure. Anyways just thought Id throw out what little I
know about interpoles. So Lee school me up I love your posts.
Cya All
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thanks for this reply, Lee ..
you've touched on something I've been
curious about for a while.
> Along come EVers, who have the audacity to think that one motor should
> be able to run on a range of voltages, at a range of speeds and loads.
>
> We could go back to adjustable brush rigging; but I think it would be
> better yet to put the interpoles back in.
What is the benefit of interpoles, vs. variable brush timing? How does
this compensate for the shifting of the field's neutral plane at high
speed, in a way that is better than simply moving the brushes? Is it
because the effect of the interpoles is relatively instantaneous, where
the brushes will lag when being moved?
Clearly, the use of interpoles implies a solid-state solution, and one
which requires no advanced control system -- there's a lot of benefit
there. However, would such windings take up space otherwise used by
windings which are continuously contributing to output torque? (So,
would they sacrifice power to gain efficiency?)
Or would the additional windings go in previously empty space, and add
significant weight to the motor? Would they impair cooling?
If there are no benefits to recommend moveable brushes as superior to
interpoles, I'll be happily corrected on the point, and highly confused
as to why something so simple still isn't making its way into any EV
motor produced today, especially from those who claim to specialize in
the market. A couple extra turns of wire can't be that expensive for the
benefit.
--chris
---------------------------------
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Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello
I have my 9" warP and Michael Brown adapter plate for
my 1986 Toyota Pickup.
1-I was about to go ahead, however now I'm thinking
about replacing the clutch. You guys have any
suggestions?
At the very least I should replace it, but then they
make all these upgraded clutches. Any ideas...I'm not
going to race this thing.
2-Also, does anyone have a list or part numbers of
what part I need from the GM/Oldsmobiles from 79-86
diesels that can act like a brake pump?
Thanks in advance!
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
What are the health hazzards of batteries in the car ??
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
. Don't forget a lid, so that
> hydrogen generated goes out where you want it to, not
> into the car, and keep your air in the compressor
> _dry_!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:19 PM -0800 1/3/06, Jim Husted wrote:
......
An added benefit to interpoles are it makes for
friendly regen, if I understand it correctly.
Ive been thinking about the interpoled motors
and whether they are subject to the 170 armature
volts that the 4 pole motor are limited to. Hey
Otmar, whats your thought on that? Ever
monster test any interpolled motors?
Hey Jim,
I have never run a interpoled motor in my cars.
From what Plasma Boy reports, his interpoled
Kostov took well over 200V without flashing over.
I believe Dennis Berube is also running high
voltages on his GE's which I think have
interpoles in addition to the motorized brush
advance. (but I could be wrong on the interpoles).
Regen with interpoles is a big unknown in my
mind. I've determined that negative brush advance
is not enough to avoid serious arcing in regen on
ADC motors. (despite what people would like to
belive), and we've run a SepEx Zilla on a SepEx
9" ADC with not much benefit. The one test that I
would still like to do is run a interpoled motor
with regen at 144V+.
Now that I'm relatively close to you here in
Oregon I can see that we'll need to be running
some experiments!
Somewhere here I have camera and equipment for
watching the commutation while driving, and the
regen adaptor for the Zilla is hanging on the
wall... We're just needing a interpoled car to
try it on. Something with a clutch, shifting
gears and 144 to 192V would probably be ideal to
start.
Let me know if you find a test mule. :)
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting applications for employment. No, I
have not yet written the job description! It's
doing everything except engineering. Will train
the right person.
No sales tax! :)
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--- Begin Message ---
My Jeep Grand Cherokee heater has an AUTO setting that turns off the
defroster when the windshield warms up. I'm not sure how that is determined.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mike Chancey" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: Heaters and Chargers
> It would be so cool to have a defroster that backed off when the
> windshield reached the dew point inside the cockpit...
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes. Use three cables.
Use four vice three circuit breakers if you intend to do this. Don't use a
common breaker in the negative.
I used contactors and fuses in my car instead of breakers. Contactors are
remotely controlled and can be turned off from the driver's seat.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:04 AM
Subject: Parallel String Connection
> When hooking up two parallel battery strings, is there a preferred way to
> run the connection cables? For example, make the B+ connection of the
> controller the common point, running three separate cables from there to
> Pack One Positive, Pack Two Positive and Motor A1 respectively?
>
> For extra safety, I'm planning on having three circuit breakers, one on
each
> string's positive terminal, and a common one for the negative terminals.
> Overkill, maybe, but it will allow me to turn off each string
independently
> if need be, plus turn off both positive and negative concurrently.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
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--- Begin Message ---
At 10:19 PM 3/01/06 -0800, Jim Husted wrote:
Hey Chris, Lee, All
Now adding interpoles will definately cause you to loose more main
coil. Even with motors that are small fielded there would not be room to
simply add interpoles.
Hi Jim and all
Question for Jim, since he's the man whose been and seen all to know about
Johns' motors for White Zombie.
This is back to the reversing thing...
Is there enough space around the fields to wind a shunt field, wound on top
of the series field, that can be reverse polarity powered to give the
reverse John needs?
I sent John a possible contactor arrangement off-list that turned out to be
the exact last arrangement John had used for reverse, which put the fields
in series with the other motors' armatures, and uses a power contactor to
isolate the field and two small ones to reconnect the field in reverse
(using the opposite motor means there are already isolating contactors from
the series/parallel thing, allows using the controller for reverse power
control):
_________________________
[M+] |C1a and C1b parallel mode|
| | |
| | C1a |
| + - | + - o--o |
|-[A1]--|--[F2]-|---o o---| |
| | | |
| o--o | | |
|only C2 |-o o--| | |
|Series | C2 C4a | |
| mode | o--o | |
| |-| |---o o------| |
| | | C3 | |
| o--o | + - | + - o--o | |
|-o o-|-[A2]-|-[F1]-|-o o-|-[M-] |
C1b | |
| o--o |
|--o o-------|
C4b
Adding C3 - a high power carrying contactor to isolate field of motor 1
when in reverse, and C4a and C4b, two lower-power contactors to power up
the field of motor 1 when in reverse. John believes the extra resistance of
C3 unbalanced the motors and reduced power delivery. So, how about a
shunt-winding extra field for reverse?
[M+] C1a, C1b parallel mode
| C1a
| o--o
|-[A1]---[F2]-|---o o---|
| | |
| o--o | |
| |--o o-| |
| | C2 Series mode |
| o--o | |
|-o o-|-[A2]---[F1]------|-[M-]
C1b
o--o o--o
B+---o o---[F1shunt]---o o----B-
C3a C3b
Shunt winding powers up (C3a, C3b) to provide a reversed field, C1a [only]
turns on to provide armature currrent from the controller through armature
of motor 1 (which has a powered field from the shunt winding) and the field
of motor 2 [which has no armature current so tries to do no work].
If there is enough space in the motor, this may be the simplest reverse for
John. If not, then to use a NiMh or lithium cell/small pack to power the
normal shunt field in reverse, along the lines of:
C1a, C1b parallel mode
[M+] C1a
| o--o
|-[A1]-----[F2]-|---o o---|
| | |
| o--o | |
| |--o o---| |
| | C2 Series mode |
| o--o | |
|-o o-|-[A2]-|-[F1]----|---|-[M-]
C1b | o--o |
| |-o o-|
| | C3
[- +]
NiMh cell/pack
Again, closing C1a powers motor 1 armature (the current going through motor
2 field only adds inductance), allowing control from the controller.
Closing C3 powers the field of motor 1 from the cell/pack (depending on the
field voltage and current needed to get the reverse speed needed).
Kicking ideas around, stirring the pot...
Regards
James
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