EV Digest 5074
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Mk3 Regs
by "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: transporting the glider
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Mk3 Regs
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: honda hub adapters - any vendor done these?
by "Monty McGraw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: float voltage...and emeter and questions...
by Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: I want to build a PWM DC motor controller
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Initial NiCd test run on my Sparrow
by Mark Dodrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: I want to build a PWM DC motor controller
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EMeter quirks
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Electric Car just few Votes away from Grabbing the #1 Spot!
by MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Federal EV tax credit
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: float voltage...and emeter and questions...
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EMeter quirks
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: transporting the glider
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: (Fwd) Save a Green Car from the Crusher
by "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Power Supply Isolation
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Power Supply Isolation
by MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Christmas comes late
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Neg supply for E-meter
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Mk3 Regs
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Christmas comes late and the present Santa forgot
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Rich,
I can't believe a day and half and not one response to this... I'll bite,
bring on the details!!!
I'm very excited to see what you guys have put together. There's been a lot
of talk about doing this by a number of people nice to see some action by
somebody. I know that Ralph and I have been working on and off (mostly off)
for more than a year on this. I suspect that if what Bruce and Sheer have
put together works it will make all the recent EVILbus protocol discussions
mute.
Is the "bridge" reg a bus master?
Details???
Regards,
Chris Brune Tigard, OR
93 Honda Del Sol
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Listers...
> Thursday night we had a successful test of the proto type MK3
Rudman regulators.
>
> Bruce Sherry of the SEVA and EV tech list did the programming with a
ATmega 8 chip. With some timely help from John Pullen
>
> So we now have a intelligent Reg system. Or parts of it.
>
> The Basic Feature set is:
> Operates as a Rudman MK2B reg... as it's main operation goal.
> It dissipates at a preset voltage point.
> These first versions will be "LoadLess" only. You will have to
supply your own load resistor and heat sink. The onboard chip is a 50A 60
volt Mosfet. So you can make some 250 watt loads if you need to.
> Lights a Green LED when actually dissipating power.
> Lights a Yellow led if a Low batt event is in progress
> Light and latches a RED led if a Low batt event occurs, and stays
latched until a over voltage Reg events occurs.
>
> The added Goodies are
> You can program the voltage setpoint for Regulation
> You can program the low voltage setpoint
> You can read back the current voltage
> you can read back the Reg status
> You can read back the local temperature.
>
> The current command structure supports 99 regs in series.
> Runs on Windows Terminal software
> has a long list of commands.. that I need to review and become failure
with.
> 2400 baud RS-232 N81 I think.
>
> I think our operating window is from 7 to 18 volts.
>
> This is like the 4th year or this project, I now have what I wanted..
>
> We really wanted to keep the price below $50, but... I am tired of not
making a dime with the Mk2B Regs. They are a LOT of work to setup and test.
I have been doing this for over a decade. Sigh!!!!
> I think the only prudent price mark is $75 each, and we will adjust that,
as my greed or Guilt battles for our hearts and minds.... It's going to take
a couple of Grand of capital to get these made tested and
> available in volume.
>
> The development path is Through Hole for now. Since I have the wave
soldering machine and grunts that stuff Boards in every week. I have a
production team that has some track time. But I see this product becoming
SMT.. Because Bruce does SMT... and REAL productions need to be SMT now
days. So I have a Dilemma... Big and easy to build, small and it all has to
be contracted out.
>
> Right now the PCB is the same length as a MK2B reg 4.500 , and I think
it's 4 inches wide. So it's bigger than a MK2B reg. I think we can drop
quite a few components. If I demand my ideas... But I wish to stay
> on the good side of Bruce's wishes.
>
> The system has to have a single Regs that acts as a RS-232 to Evil buss
converter, then N number of regs out to 99. So you need to order at least 2
regs, one is the "Bridge Reg" I am hoping to get the Bridge reg to play Reg1
also. We will see about that. Right now You need both. You will need a PC
that talks Serial ASCII.
>
> The current flavor sucks 15 Ma of standby current... Sorry... you might
want to use the Auto restart on our chargers.
>
> The production plans are about 25 to 50 in through hole with some cleaned
up PCB area, maybe a better chip flavor for much lower power consumption,
and a couple other "Better ideas" that Bruce talked about that I did not
write down. I will be evaluating these on the 75Kw charger system, and have
clients that wish to use them in all sorts of things. After the 50 are made
and tested.. and should we have reasonable success, Then we will decide on
SMT or through hole and 500 to 1000 board sets.
>
> I think a LOT of listers Would want these Even if a few of our points are
not solved. Perfection is NOT possible.. just as long as we try... you all
get equipment. and I get to make it better every time.
>
> We will make a MK3 Subpage on the WWW.ManzanitaMicro.com site, and publish
the commands and basic procedures, the Source code... is not going to be
freely distributed, You will have to deal with Bruce Sherry on that point. I
don't see why we need to protect the code, and there good reasons to let
better minds help advance the product. So if you are into hacking the code
and hardware, we will support chosen Beta members. I have watched some
pretty capable friends try and fail to make this simple product. It's by no
means a finished product....Respect is due to those that made it happen.
>
> Clearly we will be adding features and updates as we go along. The PCBs
will support the ATmel 6 pin programming port, and code updates will be
available One way or the other. So this little widget is a fantastic play
toy That we will keep as flexible as possible, Who knows where it's really
going, but this is sure a darn fine start.
>
>
> I will entertain orders and volume numbers at this time.
> Clearly volume orders and commitments will allow me to drop the per Reg
price.
> I had a nice demo, but even I can't run them yet, so until I get some
track time my self, support is going to be pretty hard to do.
>
> Look for stuff on the Website.. soon.
>
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita MIcro
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just rent a uhaul truck for two days local. Rent a trailer from them also.
I went 6 hours hauling one of their trailers with my glider on it. Cost me
$45 for the day.
Where are you located? Maybe one of us could help?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Doug Weathers
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: transporting the glider
On Jan 7, 2006, at 8:26 PM, Seth Rothenberg wrote:
> I'm taking a look at a car soon,
> if I buy it, it would need to be moved 214 miles.
>
> I was wondering if the list could share their experience.
I drove from Bend to Las Vegas (860 miles) to pick up my Karmann Ghia
glider. The whole story is on my blog at
<http://learn-something.homedns.org:8100/weblog/travel/
Las_Vegas_09_03.html>.
I bought a tow bar - you'll almost certainly be towing your vehicle at
some point. $50 from <http://www.cip1.com/>.
Borrowed my in-laws' Plymouth Astro Van, which was already set up for
towing their outdoor toys. No worrying about hitch or tranny.
Drove it to Paisley (180 miles), where I borrowed a flatbed trailer
from my wife's uncle.
Dragged the trailer to Las Vegas, bought some ratchet straps at a local
trailer supply place, loaded up the Ghia, and drove it to Paisley.
Returned the trailer and gave the uncle the burned-up engine and all
the ICE-related parts I didn't want in exchange for the loan of the
trailer.
Dragged the Ghia home with the tow bar.
It worked out really well. The van drank a lot of gas, but it was far
cheaper than any of the other ways I looked into (the ones you have
listed below. I got to look the car over before taking delivery, and
got to talk to the PO. Plus we spent a few days in Las Vegas!
>
> Vehicle weight must be over 3000 lbs (that's
> with some batteries :-).
>
> I see some options
> 1) pay a transporter - not likely, $800 first quote I got
> 2) Move it myself
> A) My Odyssey - I would need to buy a hitch ($99 ebay, but
> it is planned anyway), and a tow bar ($49 ebay)
> or rent a tow dolly from UHaul
> However, this means trusting the back tires of the car
> and giving the Hoda's Xmission a workout (though this is
> the third Xmission in it, since the first 2 went bad under
> the extended warrantee/non-recall)
>
> B) Borrow a van - eg, inlaws, buy them a hitch, then buy tow bar
> or rent a car trailer. This means trusting
> their transmission.
>
> C) Rent a truck - Penske wanted $400 one way, without
> adding the cost of the trailer
>
> D) Rent a truck - A friend of mine said rent one wide enough to
> winch the car into. I had already discounted
> that idea, but I would be curious if it has
> ever been tried. Probably violates TOS
> but I see "Horseless Carriage" around here often.
> 3) Seller delivers - either buy the tow bar and lend it to him,
> or pay for him to rent a trailer
> (I can ask if he has one :-)
>
>
> I was wondering what people have done, what works....
> 1 and 3 have the lowest liability on my part,
> (and I could probably work that day - pay for the move :-)
>
> I would need to examine the tires before transporting
> it on its own wheels, which is not cool, because I would
> want to know what to expect before going down there.
>
> BTW, I mentioned in the other thread, I'll need to tow
> it to be inspected and registered, so the tow bar and
> hitch are basically sunk costs. (Also, someday, you can
> imagine the call home: "Honey, the batteries are down,
> the controller is fried, could you get the tow bar
> from the shed and drive down here to pick me up....")
>
>
>
>
>
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes.
There is some question about it functioning as a Reg as well as the Bus
Master. Therefore; If you have 12 batteries (144 volt system) do you need to
buy 12 regs or 13 regs? If you use 12 regs, is the evil bus hot to ground?
Is the serial port hot to ground in the 12 reg, 13 reg or both
configurations?
The best information released is printed in the original email.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Mk3 Regs
> Rich,
>
> Is the "bridge" reg a bus master?
>
> Details???
>
> Regards,
> Chris Brune Tigard, OR
> 93 Honda Del Sol
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Hmmm. My former engine was a B16 (92 Civvy), but it
> was an s20 transmission. Maybe I need more
> information. Nels Strandberg made mine and Lynn Adams
> (also a LISTer), but ElectroAutomotive is also a good
> source-- they contract out for adapter plates,
> including Honda models. Are you sure it's an SC4?
yes, the tranny is from a '99 Si.
Do you have contact info for Nels or Lynn? I know how to contact
ElectroAutomotive.
Thanks,
Monty McGraw
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the response Bob,
according to the e-meter's manual there are 3 parameters that must be
met before it resets.
voltage must be at set point (106v in my case) for 5 minutes
current draw must be less than 3amp (as I have it set)
amps in must be greater than amps out.
I double checked my settings right away, of course. 2.1 is a low
sounding float voltage. But then again I've not much experience here and
appreciate your input.
I bought my batts from a local manufacturer here in Seattle. I'll check
with them about finish voltage. Never thought of that thanks for the tip.
thanks again,
Dave
Bob Bath wrote:
Dear Dave,
I was expecting some of the real battery gurus to
have answered you by now, so here's the deal:
a) Float voltage is generally around 2.1 volts per
cell. Looks like you have 12 volters, so that's 6
cells, or 12.6V. Finish voltage is a bit higher, and
truly depends on your manufacturer. And, if you've
followed my thread lately, that's a real sore spot
with me, so I'm going to pass on that.
b) Your e-meter will re-set based on the charged
parameters. That means that both a voltage, _and_ a
finish current have to be met. My hunch is that
either you have not set your charged parameters
correctly, or, the charger never met those charged
parameters. The fact that you said it re-set itself,
indicates that it is the former, not the latter.
Sincerely,
--- Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What's the optimal float voltage for new batteries?
I've read where
float voltage should be set between 13.0 and
13.8/batt. since my pack
is new should I set the float voltage on my KW bc-20
at the high end of
that range? So far I've had it set at 13.4 right in
the middle. My
pack is 8 12v batts
and then this morning my emeter said I had a fully
charged pack which I
believed and expected having charged overnight, but
the SG of all cells
was in the 1.225 -1.250 range?!! What could explain
that? My charger
was running, had not tripped a breaker or the GFI.
I have it set to
pull 10amps, and float voltage was set at 107. the
emeter voltage is
set to 106. The current draw was less than 2amps.
I decided to reset the bc-20 following the
current/voltage setting
instructions I turned the voltage to max and set the
current to draw
10amps now 6 hours later the current draw is down
to 3amps and the
voltage reading has been 124 volts and gassing
slightly for the last 2
hours. The SG ranges from 1.280- 1.3 across the 48
cells. I figured
it's fully charged and turned down the voltage to
110 (up from 107).
Good? Bad?
Now it occurs to me that I've been assuming that
"float voltage" as
pertains to the charger-manual is the same as
"finish voltage" that
e-meter manual talks about. Is that a correct
assumption?
comments appreciated, answers greatly appreciated!
thanks,
dave
96v '72 Honda-600
GE motor, 1221B
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
Basically, with a typical PWM controller it is of little concern since
the ripple on the battery cabling is a small fraction of the average or
DC current (like 10% or less). There will be more ripple in the motor
loop, expecially with a low inductance motor, however, it is fairly
common to use doubled runs of 2/0 in the (much shorter) motor loop vs a
single run in the battery loop.
Indeed. Filtering of current ripple at the input does prevent the
problem, as does motor inductance. Anybody ever take data on how much
the current ripple on input and output is?
It might be of some interest for the networked controller scheme if it
PWMs the batteries at such low frequencies that it becomes impractical
to use capacitors to smooth the ripple, however, at lower frequencies
the skin depth increases such that the effect becomes even less
significant.
Just keep in mind that the proper interpretation is "where the skin
depth is large in relation to conductor diameter". Skin effect does not
go away at low freq, the skin depth is larger and whether this is
significant or not depends on your conductor size. Even 60Hz AC
conductors have into account the 8.57mm skin depth since they follow the
same equations for skin depth versus conductor diameter. Not that
thicker hurts it, just that it will see little benefit in terms of AC
resistance and tends to be a waste of conductor material.
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, good to hear that your Sparrow is on the road again, and with some
great hard numbers. I'm not an expert, but 230 Whrs/mile sounds really good
for not being on a level surface.
It will be interesting to see what happens with your total Kwhrs used and
E-meter % if you do this once a day for a week. Hopefully, you will be able
to get a fuller charge, use less Kwhrs, as you cycle the batteries to get
them in full working order again.
Mark
On 1/8/06, John G. Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I just put about 10 miles on the bird with the NiCd pack. Here are
> the results.
> (Note that the Sparrow has been sitting unmoving for most of a year...)
> I had the EMeter set for 40AH (which seems to be pretty close to the
> actual capacity of these BB600 cells.)
> Charged to 205V (PFC-20). 20 minutes after the charger was
> disconnected the voltage was 195V. (I have to stay under 200V before
> turning on the DCP Raptor controller!)
> 137 cells for a 164V nominal pack.
> Drove up and down a side street here - since my license tabs are expired.
> 10.2 miles of up/down gentle hills, no real level area.
> EMeter said 46% remaining (of what?), Used 2.35KWH. (NOT AH)
>
> My low-cell monitor would complain when I pulled over about 150A. A
> total 6 cells had gone low out of the 72 in the front pack. I
> couldn't hook up the monitor to the 65 cell under-seat pack due to a
> wiring problem.
> They didn't stay low (< 1.0v), just went low during acceleration.
> Pack was at 174V resting afterward.
>
> Does 230 WH/Mile sound reasonable for a Sparrow?
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
--
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:25:50 -0500, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>You can ignore reverse recovery time at 60 Hz. At 1 KHz it is beginning to
>become troublesome with "slow" diodes. At 10 KHz and above, you must use a
>"fast" diode or your switching losses will exceed your conduction losses.
Further, if you want to avoid disruptive EMI production, you use a
fast switching, soft recovery diode such as those that IR make. This
diode is designed so that the switching edge isn't so sharp which
minimizes harmonic (EMI) production.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I chased this down with one of my E-meter installs and discovered it
to be a thermocouple effect between the different metals involved.
Since it takes less than a tenth of a mv to produce that 0.1
indication, only a slight temperature difference somewhere in the mv
circuit will do it.
I solved my problem by baffling the shunt to preclude drafts and by
using bare copper lugs (copper vs brass isn't a very good TC) for the
mv connections. Similar precautions against temperature differences
at the back of the E-meter are also necessary.
This is the one major gripe that I have with the E-meter. Its other
foibles I can live with but this one really complicates life,
particularly on an installation where much time may pass between
charge and discharge cycles - my motorhome, for instance. There
should be some threshold below which the measured value is assumed to
be 0. 0.1 to 0.2 mv would be appropriate; even better would be a
settable threshold. Hear this, Victor? :-)
John
On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 16:12:36 -0600, Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Hi,
>
>John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>> I've noticed is that the EMeter current reading is about
>> 15-20% higher than my Analog ammeter I have on the charger
>> shows. (Analog meter was showing 21A, EMeter was 24.4A). Checking
>> mv across the Ammeter shunt with my Fluke meter, showed the Ammeter
>> was quite correct.
>> Checking mv across the 500A shunt for the Emeter gave some odd readings.
>> Across the 2 big bolts for the power lines, it was 2.0mv (which is correct).
>> Across the 2 small sense line bolts I was getting 2.4mv.
>
>Hmmm... that is weird. Though rest assured that yours isn't the only
>E-meter that has these additional "features" ;-)
>
>The E-meter in my Cherokee has developed an annoying habit in that it
>consistently shows a current of +00.1 to +00.2 Amps when there is no
>current flowing across the shunt. Thus, according to my E-meter, my EV
>is magically recharging itself anytime it isn't being used. After a day
>it will show that the batteries have received almost 1kWh of energy!
>
>The only thing I could come up with was that maybe the little DC/DC
>converter I am using to power the E-meter is producing some ripple in
>it's output that is bothering the E-meter; or something similar that the
>E-meter is too lame to deal with...
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Would it be neat if we could regulate the votes FOR the EV's well enough to
have them finish with the same number at the close of voting? Could it be the
site owners would feature three vehicles together? Maybe not if they were just
regular gassers. But three electrics, how cool would that be. Anybody know
exactly when the voting ends for the February selection? Just a note too on
the dragtimes site itself. Dare anyone open up some EV threads on their site.
I perused through a few over the last few days and didn't see any EV related
threads. I note that there really isn't as much conversation, compared to our
board. It seems they have plenty of newbies (to drag racing) there though that
could be quite impressionable to electrics. Compliments by the way to the
owners of this board; it is one of the best organized and visited "technical"
boards that I've seen. Just so we know, members of the dragtimes.com forums
have also struggled with the way the voting can be pla
yed with. There were some threads I read where the Ford and Chevy folks were
battling with SVX folks who apparently figured out how to run the votes up,
large numbers at a time. Some finishers have had well over 3000 votes.
Apparently its the way the board owners like it. Hey and if you have the
following I'm sure the board owners don't mind all your friends (and IP
addresses) visiting his site. There's also a speecial thread for suspected fake
times. There are some rude conversations waiting to explode. We should watch
that one as I fully expect someone to question how a 40hp electric motor could
pull the times the EV's are pulling.
Keep the Voltage on 'em.
Mike
>>>From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Date: Sun Jan 8, 2006 4:43 am
>>>Subject: RE: Electric Car just few Votes away from Grabbing the #1 Spot!
>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Send Email
>>>Hi All,
>email
>Stay Charged!
>
>Hump
>
>http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
>http://www.dragtimes.com/Datsun-1200-Timeslip-7484.html
>http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
>
>
Waylands is now #2 with 1200 votes, Matt's is now
#8 and Rod is #13 !! Way to go. Going like this we shound
get them in 1-2-3 in a week or so.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 18:16:42 -0800 (PST), paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>As a bonus, you get to pick the vehicle's make and model. My scratch-built EV
>was titled as a "1978 Microvan". My 1980 Renault LeCar was titled as a
>"Lectric Leopard" by U.S. Electricar. And my ComutaVan became a "1992
>Assembled Electric".
>--
>Lee,
> How does this effect insurance and, should i ever want to, resale?
Depending on the state you're in, you probably won't be able to get
insurance. Insurance hassles are the single most frequent topic on
the Citicar mailing list. In many states, if the manufacturer isn't
in the state's database then you won't be able to get insurance.
Fortunately, TN isn't one of those states. Here, if you have the
registration fee then they'll fill in the blanks. I have USAA
insurance. They scratched their heads a bit to figure out how to
enter "Vanguard" but they finally managed. Other TN residents who are
dealing with less customer-oriented companies haven't been so lucky.
Best to check with your state before you go messing with the title.
Title laws are very varied and in many cases, irrational.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Dave wrote:
according to the e-meter's manual there are 3 parameters that must be
met before it resets.
voltage must be at set point (106v in my case) for 5 minutes
current draw must be less than 3amp (as I have it set)
amps in must be greater than amps out.
What Revision is your manual? The manual I have says that the three
criteria for the E-meter to reset its Ah counter and declare a full
charge are:
- The battery must be above the voltage set point by at least 0.1V
- The charging current must fall below the current setpoint and remain
below it for at least 5 minutes
- 100% of the energy consumed from the battery must be returned (i.e.
charging needs to occur until the Ah counter is returned to 0.00 or higher)
Also note that the numerical setting in the E-meter that you set when
the "(A)" light is on is a percentage that when multiplied by the
battery capacity should yield the desired charged current. So if your
battery pack capacity is 70Ah and you want to set 3 Amps as the end of
charge current, you'd need to set the setting to "4" on the E-meter as
70 * 0.04 = 3
Hope that helps,
--
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://go.DriveEV.com/
http://www.ACEAA.org/
--------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is that wise though, for a motorhome? There are parasitic loads
involved which could not be distinguished from thermoelectric effects.
At least the meter itself would be powered off the battery. I ran into
that question in my meter design but ended up nixing the idea.
As far as I can see thermoelectric effects would only occur if one side
of the shunt had a different temp than the other side. This would
happen if one side had a different resistance at its terminal or were
directly bolted to a hot battery terminal. Neither would seem to apply
if the system is idle.
Danny
Neon John wrote:
This is the one major gripe that I have with the E-meter. Its other
foibles I can live with but this one really complicates life,
particularly on an installation where much time may pass between
charge and discharge cycles - my motorhome, for instance. There
should be some threshold below which the measured value is assumed to
be 0. 0.1 to 0.2 mv would be appropriate; even better would be a
settable threshold. Hear this, Victor? :-)
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 20:23:10 -0500, "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Just rent a uhaul truck for two days local. Rent a trailer from them also.
>I went 6 hours hauling one of their trailers with my glider on it. Cost me
>$45 for the day.
>
>Where are you located? Maybe one of us could help?
Another option, depending on the size of the car and Uhaul van, is to
simply roll the glider up into the Uhaul van's box. That's how I got
my first Citi home. I've actually transported 2 Citis at once in my
15 ft GMC/Izuzu cube van.
I made a pair of inexpensive ramps from 2X6 boards. All my Citis were
dead at the time so I had to winch them up. I have one of those
el-cheapo $50 12 volt powered winches like Harbor Freight and Sam's
Club sell I ran it on a 17ah Hawker battery (Go Hawker!) A
come-along would have worked just fine, of course.
I took some photos of the first retrieval that you can see here:
http://www.johngsbbq.com/Neon_John_site/EV/Receiving/Receiving.htm
The ramp is one 2X6 mounted down the center of the other with glue and
deck screws. A bent metal tab on the end rests on the truck bed. In
the photos you'll see the lift gate under the ramps. That was a
safety measure in case the ramps sagged too much. They didn't and the
lift gate never actually touched the ramps.
This method beats the heck out of any other once you get the car
loaded. No hassles with trying to back up (you can't, more or less)
with a car in tow and significantly better mileage.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The GWV indicates that the batteries should still be in this S-10.
85kW AC drive is very interesting.
It has a slight dent in the right side of the bed. Nothing major
it seems, assuming that they did not bother to close the
driver side door for the photo.
Too bad that it's so far from here.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Clyde R. Visser, P.E.
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: (Fwd) Save a Green Car from the Crusher
------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 13:10:58 -0500
From: Patrick Drone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Save a Green Car from the Crusher
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Anyone Who Can Help ,
My name is Patrick Drone, and recently when I was searching the
internet for scrap steel I came across something that caught my eye.
It was an electric 1997 s-10. After researching getting it
transported I made the choose that it was to far away for me to take
advantage of it. Because I am in Michigan and the truck is in
Georgia. I am sending you hoping that someone in your electric
vehicle organization can save it from the crusher. I would be
unfortunate for a green vehicle especially one so rare to end up
being sold for scrap metal and turned into another gas guzzler. The
web site is
http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=756819#ItemManifest
or
http://www.govliquidation.com/
and then search for "s-10 electric"
I thank you for your time,
Patrick Drone
Props Artisan/Welder
Ypsilanti, MI
------- End of forwarded message -------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
*snip*
So, it doesn't matter whether you feed the supply AC or give it DC
directly.
With one minor exception: 100% duty cyle on two of the diodes in the
bridge rectifier, rather than 50%, but I wouldn't sweat it too much.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would be cautious about how I did this though. A commercial AC rectifier
will most likely have the chassis ground reference to neutral. So if you were
to run + and - 120Vdc to its inputs the rectifiers chassis would be tied to
your pack negative supply. This would be bad if you hard mount the chassis to
your vehicle frame. You could try to isolate the chassis when you mount it
however I'm not recommending this. Sometimes you can find telco rectifiers
that have the internal component trays that are isolated from the enclosure,
but you have to check with an ohm meter. And check the ohms too, not just for
the little beep from the continuity tester. That beeper usually won't work if
there is as much as 1 ohm resistance. And also check both polarities with the
meter leads. I've seen funny stuff with diodes run between components and
groundplanes.
My point is, if you know the output leads are isolated from the inputs and
chassis, that may not be enough. Presumably you would be hooking the 12V
accessory power to something that is grounded to the vehicle chassis (like your
accessory battery). This would not be good if the input negative side also
happens to be your pack negative. Kind of a round and round explanation. To
many years chasing ground loops in the telco offices and radio transmission
sites.
The lightbulb came on though while reading the EV Meter Power thread. Laptop
power switchers are usually all plastic construction. Grounding the chassis
would be difficult. They don't even have a ground wire going into the unit.
Some put out as many 2 - 3 amps at 14-15 volts. 10 of them strapped together
on a shelf would give you your 30A 12V accessory power. Just protect the
input wires to keep them from getting abraided to the chassis. I think I will
investigate this further.
Mike
****************************************************************************
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2006 3:52 pm
Subject: RE: Power Supply Isolation [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Send Email
Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> There was a discussion here a couple of months ago about how
> some EVers on the list use power supplies as DC-DC
> converters. If the power supply is no longer receiving AC to
> isolate through a transformer, how does it maintain isolation
> between the traction pack and the 12V system when receiving
> just DC from the traction pack?
The first thing a switching supply does is to rectify the incoming AC to
DC. It then takes this DC and chops it at a high frequency so that it
can be passed through a small transformer that converts it up or down
(but usually down) to the desired voltage. The output of this
transformer is isolated from the input, and is then rectified and
filtered.
So, it doesn't matter whether you feed the supply AC or give it DC
directly.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All (gotta share this)
Got a box today, all the way from Redmond, Oregon 97756, USA, to
Launceston, Tasmania 7250, Australia.
WOO-HOO, I got my package from Jim Husted!!! (supresses an urge to bounce
around a bit like Tigger).
(rubs hands together) opens the box...
Hmm, scrunched up bits of paper, some plain, some part of a Chicago Tribune...
Roll of.. um, must be the Nomex sheet.. good, each time I handle my motor
the insulation sheet under the field windings keeps cracking off and
loosing bits. I'll have to pull the field poles & put new insulation in.
Also put a piece between the brush holders and the end plate (not much
clearance there).
Fibreglass sleeve tubing, (nods appreciatively) that's a much better
quality fibreglass sleeve than my local motor shop stocks.
Round off-cut bit of red fibreglass insulation panel (yes, I think I've got
a use for that).
Two rolls of Fusa-Fab tape (motor guys here couldn't find anything close to
it), good, can complete my brush interconnection bars.
Bag of miscellaneous terminal insulators, brass bolts and nuts (scratches
head) hmm, I think on the current motor I'm going to have to make
insulators 'cause of the way I've brought the terminals out. Won't go to
waste, planning the next motor & stuff already (probably have the donor,
Daihatsu Mira, and the motor, ex-36V forklift, already).
Oh.. um.. checks all the bits of paper :^( ohh, Jim forgot the comm stone
he spoke of. Hardly surprising, all the hassles of trying to organise
freight. Jim wanted to send me some spray-varnish, but couldn't find an
economic means of international freight.
Does the bounce around (a bit like Tigger) anyway, woo-hoo, more toys to
play with, make my motor better, stronger, faster than before (without
spending $6,000,000 like the '70s TV show).
Thanks Jim!
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not to change the subject from the E-meter problem but 10 of those babies
would give the requisite 30A at 12V (nominal) to run an accessory system.
Keep 'em cool enough, the input wires protected and you wouldn't have to
worry about isolating their chassis' from your frame ground. Throw a Trace
(now Xantrex)C-40 charge controller inline and there's an inexpensive
alternatve to DC-DC converters. More versatile too.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 1:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Neg supply for E-meter
I suggest to look at (used) laptop power supplies.
They are always switchers (you can use them from
100 - 240V AC, so they should be fine up to 360V
DC, which limits the voltage (during eq charge)
to about 22 x 12V batteries or 264V system.
They have plenty of output current (3+ Amp) and
often deliver around 15 - 18V.
One currently on Ebay for $5 +$8 shipping:
Item nr 6837357331
You can still look in your junk-box for old
power supplies - make sure they have a wide
input voltage range.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rush
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 2:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Neg supply for E-meter
Lee,
Would this one work - http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/PWB.pdf
Model AFC-15S, output V- 15vdc, output A - 0.66, output W - 10W, input V -
85-265vac?
sorta pricy, $39 from them.
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: Neg supply for E-meter
> From: damon henry
>> I still have a couple more questions specific to my application. I don't
>> currently have an accesory battery, just a DC-DC converter. The negative
>> side of my DC-DC is connected to my frame. The E-meter manual states
>> that I must connect pin one to both the negative side of my traction pack
>> as well as the negative supply for the E-meter. This of course connects
>> the negative side of my traction pack to the negative side of my DC-DC
>> and my frame. This sounds bad...
>
> Correct! You can't power the E-meter directly from your 12v accessory
power.
>
>>The manual offers two options...
>
> There is another option, which I prefer. Get a small switching power
supply
> that can run directly off your traction pack, and which has an isolated
12v
> output to power the E-meter (and nothing else). The E-meter takes so
little
> power that this can be a "wall wart" or old laptop power brick. Just make
> sure it is a SWITCHING power supply, not one with a 60hz transformer!
>
> Almost all low-power switchers have "universal" inputs and work on AC or
> DC, at anything from 90-300v. For example, I use an Astrodyne 15vdc
> 0.5amp switcher. It is rated for 90-264vac input, but actually works from
> 60-350vdc. It's a little potted "brick", and would even work underwater.
>
> The advantage of this approach is that the little switcher is more
efficient
> than having to run the main DC/DC just to power a *second* DC/DC to get
> the 25ma or so the E-meter needs. The Astrodyne I use draws 4-9ma from
> my 132v propulsion pack, depending on whether the E-meter is asleep or in
> full sunlight. A normal "full-size" DC/DC would draw over 20ma even with
NO
> load on its output.
> --
> Lee Hart
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1/7/06, Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Listers...
> Thursday night we had a successful test of the proto type MK3 Rudman
> regulators.
> The system has to have a single Regs that acts as a RS-232 to Evil buss
> converter, then
> N number of regs out to 99. So you need to order at least 2 regs, one is the
> "Bridge Reg"
> I am hoping to get the Bridge reg to play Reg1 also. We will see about that.
> Right now
> You need both. You will need a PC that talks Serial ASCII.
Hi Rich,
Sounds good (if a bit on the expensive side).
It might be useful to know that I'm producing a small, simple display
module with an LCD display and 3 buttons. It also uses a ATmega 8,
with a PC serial interface. It's main application is as a PSA EV
diagnostic kit, but I threw Lee Hart's EVIL bus interface on there as
well.
So hopefully it will be of use to some evilbus experimenter, at
least as a bridge like you mentioned. I could sell the module as
"open source" with the ability to program your own EVIL functionality
as required in Bascom, if there's any interest.
Best regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey James
Man I can't believe Matt forgot the Comm stones. For those here we had tried
to ship some AC-46 insulation spray but found it to be cost prohibitive. So
being that the box had been to Fed-Ex, DHL, UPS, postal service and others I
told James the bad news that the AC just couldn't ship (well for now, at almost
$200.00 to ship it). I decided to ship you an extra FusaFab roll and an
additional Comm stone in lue of the 2 AC cans I had to pull out.. We've had
some stone brakage issues here of late and Matt must of pulled the stone out to
wrap it in cardboard dunage. I saw a stone sitting off to the side, but then I
tend to have the stuff lieing around more than the average joe, hehehe, so I
didn't think to much about it. I'll smack Matt around for you this morning
when he gets here ; )
As to the salvage odd-cut GP03 board I wanted to send you a sample to see if
it is something you could use before wacking off a more useable section, as it
is fairly costly stuff, just to see what you thought about it. Let me know
when you get a chance to play with it and whether it is something of use to you.
Nice to hear also that the sleeving is up to the Massey standards... Class
M... has a nice ring to it : )
Anyways it was good to hear that you have (most of) the stuff to move forward
with your convertion. I'll get you a couple stones out before you are ready to
seat your brushes, and I'll let Matt know the differance between adding and
subtracting a comm. stone, LMAO. An interesting side note here is I sent you
my last roll of Fusa Fab and ordered some more from EIS. It has still not
arrived, and to quote Waylands favorite line from the drag times web site, I'd
kill everyone in this room for a roll right now, LMAO HARD.
This was a fun (and trying) adventure for us here, getting to send some tools
of the trade to a far off land, as we do what we can to expand that electric
triangle with global effort.
We truely live in a smaller world.
Best of luck
Have fun
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi All (gotta share this)
Got a box today, all the way from Redmond, Oregon 97756, USA, to
Launceston, Tasmania 7250, Australia.
WOO-HOO, I got my package from Jim Husted!!! (supresses an urge to bounce
around a bit like Tigger).
(rubs hands together) opens the box...
Hmm, scrunched up bits of paper, some plain, some part of a Chicago Tribune...
Roll of.. um, must be the Nomex sheet.. good, each time I handle my motor
the insulation sheet under the field windings keeps cracking off and
loosing bits. I'll have to pull the field poles & put new insulation in.
Also put a piece between the brush holders and the end plate (not much
clearance there).
Fibreglass sleeve tubing, (nods appreciatively) that's a much better
quality fibreglass sleeve than my local motor shop stocks.
Round off-cut bit of red fibreglass insulation panel (yes, I think I've got
a use for that).
Two rolls of Fusa-Fab tape (motor guys here couldn't find anything close to
it), good, can complete my brush interconnection bars.
Bag of miscellaneous terminal insulators, brass bolts and nuts (scratches
head) hmm, I think on the current motor I'm going to have to make
insulators 'cause of the way I've brought the terminals out. Won't go to
waste, planning the next motor & stuff already (probably have the donor,
Daihatsu Mira, and the motor, ex-36V forklift, already).
Oh.. um.. checks all the bits of paper :^( ohh, Jim forgot the comm stone
he spoke of. Hardly surprising, all the hassles of trying to organise
freight. Jim wanted to send me some spray-varnish, but couldn't find an
economic means of international freight.
Does the bounce around (a bit like Tigger) anyway, woo-hoo, more toys to
play with, make my motor better, stronger, faster than before (without
spending $6,000,000 like the '70s TV show).
Thanks Jim!
James
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
--- End Message ---
