EV Digest 5075
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EMeter quirks
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: honda hub adapters - any vendor done these?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Hi-Torque web site construction
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Open source modular battery
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: float voltage...and emeter and questions...
by Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Tire Ignition Sequence Photos of White Zombie???
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 9" ADC motor mount, Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Tire Ignition Sequence Photos of White Zombie???
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Federal EV tax credit
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Federal EV tax credit
by Green VW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) PFC behavior Re: False alarm! RE: battery advice.
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Tire Ignition Sequence Photos of White Zombie???
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Electric Car just few Votes away from Grabbing the #1 Spot!
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: PFC behavior Re: False alarm! RE: battery advice.
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Mk3 Regs
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Power Supply Isolation
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Neg supply for E-meter
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Neg supply for E-meter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Pack voltage switches for peripheral devices?
by kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Replace 2 batteries?
by W Bryan Andrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Power Supply Isolation
by MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 9" ADC motor mount
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Neg supply for E-meter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
by MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Pack voltage switches for peripheral devices?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer"
Checking mv across the 500A shunt for the Emeter gave some odd readings.
Across the 2 big bolts for the power lines, it was 2.0mv (which is
correct).
Across the 2 small sense line bolts I was getting 2.4mv.
AARRGGHH!!!
Victor will have the answer for us soon with his new meter . I am looking
forward to taking the little memery chip and downloading a days charge , dis
charge on my computer in my house . It won't be long before all ev parts
will being sold will have there createater on the list . :-)
A least this don't sound like the e meter . you could re tap a hole for the
smaller boilt or add some heavy wire to short the shunt.
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The E-meter in my Cherokee has developed an annoying habit in that it
consistently shows a current of +00.1 to +00.2 Amps when there is no
current flowing across the shunt. Thus, according to my E-meter, my EV is
magically recharging itself anytime it isn't being used. After a day it
will show that the batteries have received almost 1kWh of energy!
I would say the about half the cars I've had did this .
or something similar that the
E-meter is too lame to deal with...
will thats realy only .1% off . but ya it dose ad up .
steve clunn 1
--
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://go.DriveEV.com/
http://www.ACEAA.org/
--------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nels did the adapter plate for _both_ Lynn and I. So
Lynn can't help you with an adapter plate.
Nels used to be [EMAIL PROTECTED], but I haven't gotten
ahold of him lately. There's a long story regarding
us thinking all S20 trannies were the same, and his
initial one not working, and having to go back to
square one. The point is, feel free to ask him, but I
don't know how enthused he'll be. I'd go with
ElectroAuto.
Your 99 Si sounds good! I'm gathering you're
going for speed (AGMs) not floodies? I'll be
interested in following it. Take lots of pics, so I
can compare where you mounted stuff vs. me.
Thanks,
--- Monty McGraw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hmmm. My former engine was a B16 (92 Civvy), but
> it
> > was an s20 transmission. Maybe I need more
> > information. Nels Strandberg made mine and Lynn
> Adams
> > (also a LISTer), but ElectroAutomotive is also a
> good
> > source-- they contract out for adapter plates,
> > including Honda models. Are you sure it's an SC4?
>
>
> yes, the tranny is from a '99 Si.
>
> Do you have contact info for Nels or Lynn? I know
> how to contact
> ElectroAutomotive.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Monty McGraw
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
As I posted when I set up my freebie site that if nothing else it was a way
for me to get some pics and such up to share with you all. I found that I not
only filled it up faster than Matt Graham breaks motor studs and comm stones :
P but that the ads that started to pop up were embarrassing, as well as
frustrating to all.
Christopher Robison has spent a great deal of time helping me create a much
nicer site. I thought I'd better do a post to inform everyone that there are
some changes and that it is still under construction as he moves the existing
material over. I'm trying to make this site as community orientated as
possible, and invite you all to add links to your web blogs as well as any
company based links for those interested. I'll post an invite once things have
gotten to that area of site development.
Just thought I'd share with you all the awesome developments that happened
this weekend. I also wanted to let you know the reasons that I've been unable
to post further pics due to the free site being filled. As a side note this
should prove to be much nicer site to the dial up guys (use of more thumbnail
pics). Not any reason to check anything out yet but I wanted to let you know
that good things are in the works. I'll let everyone know when shes ready for
viewing. Again much thanks goes out to Chris for the hard work he's given
toward this project. I'll let you all know when the dust has settled.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike and everyone else,
Now you could buy or
build trays in whatever size array you need based on the cell block
dimensions.
This is a great idea Mike! I'm sure all those assembling large blocks
of the BB600's would appreciate something like this.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thanks for the correction Nick.
Yes it is the current that must remain below the % setting for 5 minutes
not the voltage.
My batteries are 115ah so I set the capacity to 100 and the % to 3 so
current will have to be under 3amps for 5 minutes.
Nick Viera wrote:
Hi,
Dave wrote:
according to the e-meter's manual there are 3 parameters that must be
met before it resets.
voltage must be at set point (106v in my case) for 5 minutes
current draw must be less than 3amp (as I have it set)
amps in must be greater than amps out.
What Revision is your manual? The manual I have says that the three
criteria for the E-meter to reset its Ah counter and declare a full
charge are:
- The battery must be above the voltage set point by at least 0.1V
- The charging current must fall below the current setpoint and remain
below it for at least 5 minutes
- 100% of the energy consumed from the battery must be returned (i.e.
charging needs to occur until the Ah counter is returned to 0.00 or
higher)
Also note that the numerical setting in the E-meter that you set when
the "(A)" light is on is a percentage that when multiplied by the
battery capacity should yield the desired charged current. So if your
battery pack capacity is 70Ah and you want to set 3 Amps as the end of
charge current, you'd need to set the setting to "4" on the E-meter as
70 * 0.04 = 3
Hope that helps,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John;
Canya cull a few shots from vids? Help yourself to what you captured from
mine. Like the famous 'Zorch" scene while doing a break stand?
Seeya, at #1!
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >If any list members have a good photo of WZ they'd like to see there
> instead, send it to me, and I'll pick my favorite of what I receive and
> >resend it to the site.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ken;
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Albright" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: 9" ADC motor mount
> I just got the motor attached to the transaxle and stuffed into the '86
VW Scirocco I'm converting (Hooray!). I'm reusing the three mounts that
attach to the tranny. For the motor end I'm still scratching my head.
>
I think that the VWs shares a similar tranny , engine mount? The Rabbbit I
have been running for years I just cut off the Diseasel engine forward mount
and welded a NEW one just above the centered ADV 9" motor. I made a plate to
bolt to those holes ya mentioned, and hacked off the rubber grommet on an
old shock, to make a rubber bushing mount. Welded that to the plate. All
this has to do is support the motor, the torque issue is handled by the
OTHER 3 mounts.BTW the 9 JUST fits! An * or a Impulse 0" would fit EVen
finer.
> The brush end of the motor has two 3/8" holes that look like they could
be used to attach a mount similar to the EA mount for the 8" motor.
However, due to the orientation, reusing the ICE motor mount location may
cause sheer stress on the bolts/holes. That is to say, when looking at the
brush end of the motor, the holes are at 2 and 4 o'clock and the existing
mount location on the body is over the 9 o'clock position. Anyone know how
strong these holes and the end plate are and how much stress would be
placed on them?
>
> Alternatively, is anyone making an end mount for the 9" motor?
>
> I have the big belly band strap as supplied by KTA which I may end up
using by welding a connection between it and the ICE motor mount. However,
that seems like an inelegant solution.
> New Motor mount is more elegent!
HTH
Seeya
Bob
> Thanks
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Photos
> Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands
ASAP.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Thanks for the reply, Bob.
Bob Rice wrote:
Hi John;
Canya cull a few shots from vids? Help yourself to what you captured from
mine. Like the famous 'Zorch" scene while doing a break stand?
Bob, your video captured what I'm looking for, but copying frames from
it results in very low rez shots. I need the opening picture for the
'Car of the Month' to be clear. Other than the low quality of the stills
taken from your video, yes, this is exactly what I'm looking for. Surely
someone else was snapping pictures that day?
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've claimed my conversions for quite a few years and havn't had any
problems. Once I was audited and showed the IRS agent my pictures of the
Electro-Metro and the agent thought it was OK.
BTW, I'm leaving my company to work for Synchrony Mag Bearings so I'll be
signing off in a couple weeks.
Thanks everyone for your help.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: Federal EV tax credit
> Reclaimed title? You could argue it's not the same vehicle, the
> original was just "parts".
>
> Danny
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >According to the following page, only new EVs that "have never been used
as a non-electric vehicle" are eligible for the tax credit.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_afv.shtml#ev
> >Does anybody have a defensible way of claiming the credit for a
conversion?
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Jay Donnaway
> >www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone else taken a look at IRS Publication 535 pp 44-45. Would
anyone agree that it addresses conversions in the context of "Deduction
for Clean fuel vehicle property". Note the last four lines on page 44
and most of page 45
On Jan 8, 2006, at 6:41 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
Eric Poulsen wrote:
To be eligible for the tax credit, a vehicle must meet the following
requirements [snip]
* It has never been used as a nonelectric vehicle.
Dave wrote:
So where does that leave coversions?
Out in the cold. Of course, the lobbyists and bureaucrats that wrote
the rules
didn't intend that there be any conversions.
However, you can still play by their rules and "win" the tax credit.
I've done
this three times. You need to re-title your EV as a "new vehicle".
Thus, it
has never been used as a non-electric vehicle, and you are the first
owner.
You will have to get a copy of your state's rules for titling a
vehicle. They
aren't too bad for an individual; the assumption is that someone is
building
a one-of-a-kind dune buggy, hot rod, antique reproduction, or other
unusual
car for hobby use. The states where I've done this (NY, MI, and MN)
only
required the normal equipment needed on any car; lights, horn, wipers,
safety
glass, etc. No crash testing, air bags, emissions controls, or other
federally mandated equipment that would apply to a manufacturer.
Build your vehicle to meet your state's requirement. Then, you take it
somewhere and have it inspected for compliance. If it passes, you get
your
title!
As a bonus, you get to pick the vehicle's make and model. My
scratch-built EV
was titled as a "1978 Microvan". My 1980 Renault LeCar was titled as a
"Lectric Leopard" by U.S. Electricar. And my ComutaVan became a "1992
Assembled Electric".
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 7, 2006, at 1:41 PM, Roger Stockton wrote:
What is happening is that you have the limit set for 173V and are able
to force the batteries to reach this level, but the voltage is higher
than they want and so they are overheating because the current does not
taper off as it should. As they heat up, they draw more current until
the charger is once again in current limit; at this point the charger
is
forced to lower its output voltage to maintain the current at this
(maximum) level, and so the limit LED and timer go off as the charger
returns to bulk mode. If left this way it will continue grossly
overcharging your batteries until a maximum charge duration timer shuts
things down. If I recall Bill Dube's report correctly, the PFCxx does
not have such a timer and you must use an external timer on the AC
input
to ensure the charger does not continue charging forever should
something unexpected (such as thermal runaway or a shorted cell or two,
etc.) occur.
Is this true Rich? The shutoff timer will go back off if the battery
voltage drops after it hits the set voltage.
Can that behavior be easily switched off? That is to say, can the timer
be forced to continue the countdown and switch the charger off? I would
not want the charger timer to go back off because one common way for
the pack voltage to drop during charge is thermal runaway (especially
when you charge faster.)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 8, 2006, at 5:04 PM, John Wayland wrote:
Each year I've had White Zombie at the Woodburn drags, there's been at
least 10 different folks with digital cameras snapping pictures of the
car, especially whenever I would do my signature burnouts. And yet,
now about two weeks after asking for photos from those who were there,
there's been nothing but tumble weeds blowing by.....I received
exactly one picture, but it wasn't a real action type photo.
Come on everyone, here's your chance to have your photo up for all to
see for a long, long time at the DragTime.com web page.
I have posted some photos from Woodburn '05 at
<http://paul-g.home.comcast.net/woodburn.htm>. Feel free to use any of
these photos. I don't have any good smoke show shots though :-( The
problem is that most digital cameras have rather wide angle lenses and
limited zoom (until you start using digital zoom.) The only launch shot
I have is of considerable lower quality and very little smoke.
I have more photos from Woodburn '05 as well. I think I posted some of
the better ones, but there are more shots and different angles. Let me
know if you have anything in mind. I don't mind uploading or e-mailing
them as I have a fast connection.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
---- Original Message -----
From: "MIKE & PAULA WILLMON" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 10:44 PM
Subject: RE: Electric Car just few Votes away from Grabbing the #1 Spot!
> Apparently its the way the board owners like it. Hey and if you have the
> following I'm sure the board owners don't mind all your friends (and IP
> addresses) visiting his site. >
> Mike
>
Of course they like it! They earn money when you clik on an ad link. Next time
you go the main page, clik on anyone of the ads and you have just earned the
web owner anywhere from $0.001 to $0.05 and the more cliks the more he earns....
Not everybody cliks on the ads, but enough do so that there are mega bucks in
advertizing paid out. I used to have an add on the google main page so that
when you input certain search words, my site would come up on the right side,
if somebody cliked on the link, on the left side, I paid 5 cents a clik to
google.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I seem to recall a previous thread discussing this subject. Supposedly the
voltage limit is not a "latch", and after the voltage limit is reached and
the timer starts, the timer will stop if the voltage drops back below the
limit (such as the high current situation described by Roger). I am pretty
sure this is specifically by design. Probably to keep batteries charged if
the charger is left on in a permanent situation.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul G.
Sent: January 9, 2006 9:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: PFC behavior Re: False alarm! RE: battery advice.
On Jan 7, 2006, at 1:41 PM, Roger Stockton wrote:
> What is happening is that you have the limit set for 173V and are able
> to force the batteries to reach this level, but the voltage is higher
> than they want and so they are overheating because the current does
> not taper off as it should. As they heat up, they draw more current
> until the charger is once again in current limit; at this point the
> charger is forced to lower its output voltage to maintain the current
> at this
> (maximum) level, and so the limit LED and timer go off as the charger
> returns to bulk mode. If left this way it will continue grossly
> overcharging your batteries until a maximum charge duration timer
> shuts things down. If I recall Bill Dube's report correctly, the
> PFCxx does not have such a timer and you must use an external timer on
> the AC input to ensure the charger does not continue charging forever
> should something unexpected (such as thermal runaway or a shorted cell
> or two,
> etc.) occur.
Is this true Rich? The shutoff timer will go back off if the battery voltage
drops after it hits the set voltage.
Can that behavior be easily switched off? That is to say, can the timer be
forced to continue the countdown and switch the charger off? I would not
want the charger timer to go back off because one common way for the pack
voltage to drop during charge is thermal runaway (especially when you charge
faster.)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich,
Great on the regs, I hope that you sell some. I talked with someone here in
Tucson that has a mixture of your MK1 and MK2 regs and feels that they have
really helped the life of his batteries.
I would probably order a set, but I already have on order a set of balancers
from Lee. He is combining the balancers with a charger and DC/DC that will all
work in concert.
Are you using the new EvilBus spec update that has been happening on the EVTech
listserv?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 12:36 PM
Subject: Mk3 Regs
> Listers...
> Thursday night we had a successful test of the proto type MK3 Rudman
> regulators.
>
> Bruce Sherry of the SEVA and EV tech list did the programming with a ATmega 8
> chip. With some timely help from John Pullen
>
> So we now have a intelligent Reg system. Or parts of it.
>
> The Basic Feature set is:
> Operates as a Rudman MK2B reg... as it's main operation goal.
> It dissipates at a preset voltage point.
> These first versions will be "LoadLess" only. You will have to
> supply your own load resistor and heat sink. The onboard chip is a 50A 60
> volt Mosfet. So you can make some 250 watt loads if you need to.
> Lights a Green LED when actually dissipating power.
> Lights a Yellow led if a Low batt event is in progress
> Light and latches a RED led if a Low batt event occurs, and stays
> latched until a over voltage Reg events occurs.
>
> The added Goodies are
> You can program the voltage setpoint for Regulation
> You can program the low voltage setpoint
> You can read back the current voltage
> you can read back the Reg status
> You can read back the local temperature.
>
> The current command structure supports 99 regs in series.
> Runs on Windows Terminal software
> has a long list of commands.. that I need to review and become failure
> with.
> 2400 baud RS-232 N81 I think.
>
> I think our operating window is from 7 to 18 volts.
>
> This is like the 4th year or this project, I now have what I wanted..
>
> We really wanted to keep the price below $50, but... I am tired of not making
> a dime with the Mk2B Regs. They are a LOT of work to setup and test. I have
> been doing this for over a decade. Sigh!!!!
> I think the only prudent price mark is $75 each, and we will adjust that, as
> my greed or Guilt battles for our hearts and minds.... It's going to take a
> couple of Grand of capital to get these made tested and
> available in volume.
>
> The development path is Through Hole for now. Since I have the wave soldering
> machine and grunts that stuff Boards in every week. I have a production team
> that has some track time. But I see this product becoming SMT.. Because Bruce
> does SMT... and REAL productions need to be SMT now days. So I have a
> Dilemma... Big and easy to build, small and it all has to be contracted out.
>
> Right now the PCB is the same length as a MK2B reg 4.500 , and I think it's 4
> inches wide. So it's bigger than a MK2B reg. I think we can drop quite a few
> components. If I demand my ideas... But I wish to stay
> on the good side of Bruce's wishes.
>
> The system has to have a single Regs that acts as a RS-232 to Evil buss
> converter, then N number of regs out to 99. So you need to order at least 2
> regs, one is the "Bridge Reg" I am hoping to get the Bridge reg to play Reg1
> also. We will see about that. Right now You need both. You will need a PC
> that talks Serial ASCII.
>
> The current flavor sucks 15 Ma of standby current... Sorry... you might want
> to use the Auto restart on our chargers.
>
> The production plans are about 25 to 50 in through hole with some cleaned up
> PCB area, maybe a better chip flavor for much lower power consumption, and a
> couple other "Better ideas" that Bruce talked about that I did not write
> down. I will be evaluating these on the 75Kw charger system, and have clients
> that wish to use them in all sorts of things. After the 50 are made and
> tested.. and should we have reasonable success, Then we will decide on SMT or
> through hole and 500 to 1000 board sets.
>
> I think a LOT of listers Would want these Even if a few of our points are not
> solved. Perfection is NOT possible.. just as long as we try... you all get
> equipment. and I get to make it better every time.
>
> We will make a MK3 Subpage on the WWW.ManzanitaMicro.com site, and publish
> the commands and basic procedures, the Source code... is not going to be
> freely distributed, You will have to deal with Bruce Sherry on that point. I
> don't see why we need to protect the code, and there good reasons to let
> better minds help advance the product. So if you are into hacking the code
> and hardware, we will support chosen Beta members. I have watched some
> pretty capable friends try and fail to make this simple product. It's by no
> means a finished product....Respect is due to those that made it happen.
>
> Clearly we will be adding features and updates as we go along. The PCBs will
> support the ATmel 6 pin programming port, and code updates will be available
> One way or the other. So this little widget is a fantastic play toy That we
> will keep as flexible as possible, Who knows where it's really going, but
> this is sure a darn fine start.
>
>
> I will entertain orders and volume numbers at this time.
> Clearly volume orders and commitments will allow me to drop the per Reg price.
> I had a nice demo, but even I can't run them yet, so until I get some track
> time my self, support is going to be pretty hard to do.
>
> Look for stuff on the Website.. soon.
>
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita MIcro
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: MIKE & PAULA WILLMON
> A commercial AC rectifier will most likely have the chassis ground reference
> to neutral.
If the power supply has a 3-wire cord, its ground wire will be connected to
chassis ground. The AC "neutral" wire is nominally at the same voltage as
ground, but is never actually connected to ground. If the power supply is UL
listed, then it has been "hipot" tested; this requires that the supply was able
to withstand 1250vac between hot and neutral tied together and chassis ground.
This guarantees that there is *substantial* isolation between neutral and
ground.
> The lightbulb came on though while reading the EV Meter Power thread. Laptop
> power
> switchers are usually all plastic construction. Grounding the chassis would
> be difficult. They
> don't even have a ground wire going into the unit.
Yes, that's a good point. Supplies with a 3-wire cord have capacitors from hot
and neutral to ground to suppress RFI. Supplies with only a 2-wire cord (hot
and neutral, no ground) do not have these capacitors. It is actually preferable
in your EV not to have these capacitors, as they become a source of ground
fault current. One supply won't trip a GFCI, but a dozen of them in the same
circuit will!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, there is very little wiring on the motorcycle and most of it I
have replaced already. If it weren't for the way the dumb lights are made,
I could easily isolate my whole 12volt system from the frame. Unfortunately
all the lights mounting hardware is built expecting the negative side of the
power equation from the frame, so even if I ran a seperate ground wire to
each, I would also have to figure out a way to isolate the individual
hardware piece from the frame. That is just not worth the effort...
damon
From: Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Neg supply for E-meter
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 00:45:34 -0900
Not to change the subject from the E-meter problem but 10 of those babies
would give the requisite 30A at 12V (nominal) to run an accessory system.
Keep 'em cool enough, the input wires protected and you wouldn't have to
worry about isolating their chassis' from your frame ground. Throw a Trace
(now Xantrex)C-40 charge controller inline and there's an inexpensive
alternatve to DC-DC converters. More versatile too.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 1:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Neg supply for E-meter
I suggest to look at (used) laptop power supplies.
They are always switchers (you can use them from
100 - 240V AC, so they should be fine up to 360V
DC, which limits the voltage (during eq charge)
to about 22 x 12V batteries or 264V system.
They have plenty of output current (3+ Amp) and
often deliver around 15 - 18V.
One currently on Ebay for $5 +$8 shipping:
Item nr 6837357331
You can still look in your junk-box for old
power supplies - make sure they have a wide
input voltage range.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rush
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 2:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Neg supply for E-meter
Lee,
Would this one work - http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/PWB.pdf
Model AFC-15S, output V- 15vdc, output A - 0.66, output W - 10W, input V -
85-265vac?
sorta pricy, $39 from them.
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: Neg supply for E-meter
> From: damon henry
>> I still have a couple more questions specific to my application. I
don't
>> currently have an accesory battery, just a DC-DC converter. The
negative
>> side of my DC-DC is connected to my frame. The E-meter manual states
>> that I must connect pin one to both the negative side of my traction
pack
>> as well as the negative supply for the E-meter. This of course connects
>> the negative side of my traction pack to the negative side of my DC-DC
>> and my frame. This sounds bad...
>
> Correct! You can't power the E-meter directly from your 12v accessory
power.
>
>>The manual offers two options...
>
> There is another option, which I prefer. Get a small switching power
supply
> that can run directly off your traction pack, and which has an isolated
12v
> output to power the E-meter (and nothing else). The E-meter takes so
little
> power that this can be a "wall wart" or old laptop power brick. Just
make
> sure it is a SWITCHING power supply, not one with a 60hz transformer!
>
> Almost all low-power switchers have "universal" inputs and work on AC or
> DC, at anything from 90-300v. For example, I use an Astrodyne 15vdc
> 0.5amp switcher. It is rated for 90-264vac input, but actually works
from
> 60-350vdc. It's a little potted "brick", and would even work underwater.
>
> The advantage of this approach is that the little switcher is more
efficient
> than having to run the main DC/DC just to power a *second* DC/DC to get
> the 25ma or so the E-meter needs. The Astrodyne I use draws 4-9ma from
> my 132v propulsion pack, depending on whether the E-meter is asleep or
in
> full sunlight. A normal "full-size" DC/DC would draw over 20ma even with
NO
> load on its output.
> --
> Lee Hart
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Mike & Paula Willmon
>Not to change the subject from the E-meter problem but 10 of those babies
>would give the requisite 30A at 12V (nominal) to run an accessory system.
A clever idea, but these little supplies are pretty cheaply made so reliability
is low. Using 10 of them would ocmpound this problem. They do not share power
when operated in parallel; you'd have to do something tricky. They also aren't
very efficient; usually in the 70-80% range.
It's something you could try if you got a bunch of them free and didn't mind
playing around.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm currently putting together some of the peripheral equipment which will be
working off the pack voltage of my 156 volt Courier - heater, DC-
DC, etc. The maximum draw could go as high as 15 amps. I don't seem to find a
lot of 156 VDC rated switches or relays readily available, so
I'm kicking around different ways to switch them on and off short of using a
Czonka. I've got some 3 pole relay modules which are rated for
28VDC, 30 amps which I'm thinking of using by wiring the three poles in series,
then wiring two of the modules in series, giving me a cumulative
voltage rating above the pack voltage (6 x 28 = 168 > 156.) Will this work?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks,
Unfortunately, I let a family member borrow my EV and it was run
down into the "limping mode" for about 5 miles. This isn't the first
time it's been punished like this, but it certainly was the longest.
After charging it back up, I took it out for a test spin and
ran it down so the SOC was about halfway down the 'good' range. I then
popped the battery cases and started reading voltages.
Two adjacent batteries (of the 6v , cheap, capped, lead-acid variety)
are reading 0.1 v lower than everything else in the pack. The battery
pack is about a year and a half hold.
Should I replace these two? What are some rules of thumb for
when to replace sagging batteries?
Thanks!
Bryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
%%From: MIKE & PAULA WILLMON
**From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>From: MIKE & PAULA WILLMON
> A commercial AC rectifier will most likely have the chassis ground reference
to neutral.
**If the power supply has a 3-wire cord, its ground wire will be connected to
chassis ground. The AC "neutral" wire is nominally at the same voltage as
ground, but is never actually connected to ground. If the power supply is UL
listed, then it has been "hipot" tested; this requires that the supply was able
to withstand 1250vac between hot and neutral tied together and chassis ground.
This guarantees that there is *substantial* isolation between neutral and
ground.
%% If the supply is being used as AC device the ground and neutral are
physically tied together back at the distribution point, thus the same
potential reference and fault to ground protection. However in an EV if you
only make use of the Hot and Neutral (for pack voltage DC input) you lose your
ground fault protection. Any fault to ground of the supply will be right to
your accessory ground.
> The lightbulb came on though while reading the EV Meter Power thread. Laptop
power
> switchers are usually all plastic construction. Grounding the chassis would be
difficult. They
> don't even have a ground wire going into the unit.
**Yes, that's a good point. Supplies with a 3-wire cord have capacitors from hot
and neutral to ground to suppress RFI. Supplies with only a 2-wire cord (hot and
neutral, no ground) do not have these capacitors. It is actually preferable in
your EV not to have these capacitors, as they become a source of ground fault
current. One supply won't trip a GFCI, but a dozen of them in the same circuit
will!
%% But how about using them with the DC input from our pack voltage? Would
capacitance from the input leads cause a significant ground fault current, per
se, to our chassis? ...if our high voltage packs are isolated? Starting to
roll around the idea of those little switcher cards in the power bricks slid
into a modular chassis for a DC-DC converter. I'd have to add in a regulator
of some sorts protect the accessory batttery.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just welded a bracket straight to the motor casing. No problem at all,
just cool everything down before too much heat finds its way to the
windings. A high current setting on the MIG and biasing the wels towards the
casing is the answer. With a 9" GE the motor only just fits in endways, so
you really have to mount off the side.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Albright" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 11:02 PM
Subject: 9" ADC motor mount
I just got the motor attached to the transaxle and stuffed into the '86 VW
Scirocco I'm converting (Hooray!). I'm reusing the three mounts that
attach to the tranny. For the motor end I'm still scratching my head.
The brush end of the motor has two 3/8" holes that look like they could
be used to attach a mount similar to the EA mount for the 8" motor.
However, due to the orientation, reusing the ICE motor mount location may
cause sheer stress on the bolts/holes. That is to say, when looking at
the brush end of the motor, the holes are at 2 and 4 o'clock and the
existing mount location on the body is over the 9 o'clock position.
Anyone know how strong these holes and the end plate are and how much
stress would be placed on them?
Alternatively, is anyone making an end mount for the 9" motor?
I have the big belly band strap as supplied by KTA which I may end up
using by welding a connection between it and the ICE motor mount.
However, that seems like an inelegant solution.
Thanks
Ken
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands
ASAP.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
%%From: Mike & Paula Willmon
%% Thats a good point. Balancing those things would be a pain. I do however
have boxes of 2 Amp 15V bricks that my company cuts the connector end off to
use on wireless radios, and throws away the supplies. Will tinker with this a
bit and get back to the list.
Mike
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon Jan 9, 2006 12:51 pm
Subject: RE: Neg supply for E-meter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Send Email
From: Mike & Paula Willmon
>Not to change the subject from the E-meter problem but 10 of those babies
>would give the requisite 30A at 12V (nominal) to run an accessory system.
A clever idea, but these little supplies are pretty cheaply made so reliability
is low. Using 10 of them would ocmpound this problem. They do not share power
when operated in parallel; you'd have to do something tricky. They also aren't
very efficient; usually in the 70-80% range.
It's something you could try if you got a bunch of them free and didn't mind
playing around.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: kluge
> I'm currently putting together some of the peripheral equipment which will be
> working
> off the pack voltage of my 156 volt Courier - heater, DC/DC, etc. The maximum
> draw
> could go as high as 15 amps. I don't seem to find a lot of 156 VDC rated
> switches
> or relays readily available, so I'm kicking around different ways to switch
> them on and
> off short of using a Czonka. I've got some 3 pole relay modules which are
> rated for
> 28VDC, 30 amps which I'm thinking of using by wiring the three poles in
> series, then
> wiring two of the modules in series, giving me a cumulative voltage rating
> above the
> pack voltage (6 x 28 = 168 > 156.) Will this work?
It would, but is probably excessive.
There are basically two approaches. Get a switch or relay actually rated at the
desired voltage. Common choices are the Potter & Brumfield/Siemens/Tyco PR10 or
KUEP series relays with magnetic blowout option, or old AC/DC rated switches
(like you'd find in a house built over 50 years ago).
The other approach is to use an AC-rated switch or relay at about 1/4 of its
voltage rating. For example, I have a 3-pole relay for an air conditioner here
(Furnas 42CE35AJ106) which is labelled
120vac 1ph 2hp, 3ph 5hp
240vac 40fla, 240lra, 1ph 5hp, 3ph 10hp
480vac 40fla, 200lra, 3ph 15hp
600vac 30fla, 160lra, 3ph 15hp
These are just the particular values that the manufacturer tested. "ph" is
phase, "fla" is full load amps, and "lra" is inductive-resistive amps (i.e. the
peak current it can switch to start a motor). What all this means is that each
contact is good for up to 40 amps continuous, and that 2 contacts in series can
withstand up to 600vac (because you have two contacts in series on 3-phase
power).
That means each contact is good for about 300vac. So, if you wired all 3 in
series, they could switch 900vac or 900/4=225vdc. That's adequate for your
application.
A final trick is to use an RC snubber network across each contact to reduce the
rate of rise in voltage when a contact opens. This works well for low-current
loads, where the R and C don't get too big. For a light load that draws less
than an amp, 100 ohms and 0.1uf are good. For a 5 amp load, use 10 ohms and 1uf.
--- End Message ---
