EV Digest 5084
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) : power steering
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Transmission replacement
by Andrew Paulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Help With US Electricar Prism
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Mk3 Regs
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: : power steering
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Transmission replacement
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Transmission replacement
by Andrew Paulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: EVForge.net Update
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: After Marin ampabout, Zivan down, needs exorcism
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Transmission replacement
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: : power steering
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=756819
by Calvin King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Transmission replacement
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Batts. & timers & my next set-- (oh, my!)
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Neg supply for E-meter
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=756819
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: : power steering
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Emeter first power up problems...
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Transmission replacement
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: New NEDRA Voltage Divisions
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Batts. & timers & my next set-- (oh, my!)
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Did they make 1986 toyota p/u 4wd with manual
steering?
What are the name of the parts?
Not sure what else they call ist besides "rack"?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:51:20 -0800 (PST)
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Add to
Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: power steering
To: [email protected]
You don't want to leave in the same rack. The
gearings (leverage) will be different. In the case
of my Civic, the hatch has manual, the sedan (200 lbs.
heavier) has power. I swapped in the manual, and life
is just fine. I'm 163 lbs, and the wife is 130, but
no problems parallel parking, esp. with tires inflated
to 42 PSI.
--- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In general when the power steering is disconnected
> what options do you have when you don't install a
> replacement battery powered pump or do some sort of
> belt connection?
>
> 1-Do you have to reconnect a different box?
>
> 2-Can you just disconnect the two hoses to the power
> steering, and just let them drain out?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
I have the opportunity to get a nice 1998 Ford Ranger to convert. The
only setback is that it is an automatic. Can anyone tell me how
difficult it would be to replace the auto with a manual? Is it worth
trying? I imagine I could leave the clutch out, which would save some
trouble.
Andrew
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
Chris Zach is in Maryland between Baltimore and DC. He has one of these
Prisms and is extremely knowledgable about it. I believe he is on the EVDL.
If he doesn't chime in, I'll look up his email address for you. She
should also check out the EVA/DC (www.evadc.org).
Dave
From: Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Help With US Electricar Prism
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:57:37 -0600
Hi folks,
This came in on the EV Photo Album website. If anyone has a response for
Cheryl, I would be happy to forward it to her. Since she isn't on the EVDL
I didn't feel it was right to include her email address.
Can anyone help out here?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey
Cheryl Jaffe wrote:
4 - 5 years ago, we bought a blue 97 US Electricar Prizm. It didn't
work, we bought it as a project car. We tried to fix it up, new batts
and all, but without any luck. Recently my husband gave it another try.
One of your members put our Dolphin onto his car, and it worked. My
husband checked and charged the batts, and restored some broken
connections. The pack is good, but still no luck. Is there anyone
in the DelMarVa region who can help us check connections? Thanks for
your help.
------------------------------------------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I haven't murdered my first pack yet so I really don't know if $75 is
too much or not, I love the regs I do have, they allowed me to double my
range in 2 days. Maybe the problem is not that they cost $75 it is that
I would need 25 of them!
I see 2 soulutions
Less modularity: ie use 1 micro board for every 8 or 16 regs, a
little more micro power so maybe 1 at $100 and 7 at $50 or all other ratios.
Call on the lists power. Run a survey like so
How many would you buy at 75,65,50,40? I don't really want to buy
25 of them so I may answer 0,10,25,25 to indicate if I had a 120Volt
vehicle I would buy a set an if I had a 300V vehicle I wouldn't unles
the price was 65.
Ok, Now we add up the numbers at each price range and see if we can hit
a magic number that allows Rich to switch to a different manufacturing
method or buy some needed equipment.
Commit, prepay and then go, kinda like a group battery purchase. The
problem is getting enough conversion all going on at the same time :-(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Go to a local auto supply or wreckers and ask for a manual steering rack for
your vehicle. They may also know if racks from other models might fit.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of mike golub
Sent: January 11, 2006 4:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: : power steering
Did they make 1986 toyota p/u 4wd with manual steering?
What are the name of the parts?
Not sure what else they call ist besides "rack"?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:51:20 -0800 (PST)
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Add to Address Book Add
Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: power steering
To: [email protected]
You don't want to leave in the same rack. The gearings (leverage) will be
different. In the case of my Civic, the hatch has manual, the sedan (200
lbs.
heavier) has power. I swapped in the manual, and life is just fine. I'm
163 lbs, and the wife is 130, but no problems parallel parking, esp. with
tires inflated to 42 PSI.
--- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In general when the power steering is disconnected what options do you
> have when you don't install a replacement battery powered pump or do
> some sort of belt connection?
>
> 1-Do you have to reconnect a different box?
>
> 2-Can you just disconnect the two hoses to the power steering, and
> just let them drain out?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Andrew,
Why take out the automatic? When I bought my first EV, I had the choice of a
automatic or standard. I ended up with the standard. I should have taken the
automatic, because it would have been smoother between the shifts.
My standard has a 3.5:1 1st gear, 2.5:1 2nd gear. The automatic also has a
3.5:1 1st gear and a 1.75:1 2nd gear. The rear axle ratio for the standard is
5.57:1 and for the automatic is 4.57:1 if using a torque converter that adds
another 1.8:1 ratio. If your 1st gear is lower which many are now in the 2.75:1
range, than you must increase your axle gear another 1.75:1 ratio.
You have two choices of running with the automatic. You can have a idle
control if you keep the torque converter or no idle if you do not used a torque
converter. If you do not used the torque converter, than you may have to add
another 3:1 ratio to your differential gear.
I am using a standard with my Warp 9 motor while my GE motor is in maintenance.
I will be installing a GM 350 turbo competition street/strip transmission to
GE motor which will bolt right up to it. There is a connection shaft that
bolts to the motor adapter flange and right into the transmission front pump
and drive. These are normally call a Circlematic Front Pump Drive Kits.
You can get these transmission shafts from Jegs . Com for certain
transmissions. It is very easy to have one made by using the reference length
and diameter of the torque converter input tube which you would measure from
the end of the torque converter tube to the end of the flex wheel that bolts
onto the crank flange.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Paulsen<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EVDL<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:20 PM
Subject: Transmission replacement
Hi everyone,
I have the opportunity to get a nice 1998 Ford Ranger to convert. The
only setback is that it is an automatic. Can anyone tell me how
difficult it would be to replace the auto with a manual? Is it worth
trying? I imagine I could leave the clutch out, which would save some
trouble.
Andrew
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1/11/06, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why take out the automatic? When I bought my first EV, I had the choice of a
> automatic or standard. I ended up with the standard. I should have taken
> the automatic, because it would have been smoother between the shifts.
I was hoping to avoid machining custom parts by using an electro auto
adapter for a manual transmission.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stefan, looks very nice. Many people have suggested many times to convert
the list over to web based however the suggestions gets shutdown quickly as
some listers are still using dial up and older technology (even though the
new technology supports email based listing as well). I think your way of
"adding on" the web interface to the existing list will keep the slow dial
up users happy, while allowing those of us who prefer newer technology the
ability to search by thread, use a web interface, faq etc.
It will also start to bring more people to a central web location. The
closest thing we have to that is the EVAlbum.
Good job.
A couple of questions:
1) With the search, rather than display all the matching content, would it
be possible that it could just list the matching threads? Then a user can
click on a desired thread and read the content. (I think is similar to out
of the box phpBB)
2) Also, are you planning on have your site be able to post to the list as
well? It would be nice to dump the email list completely.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stefan T. Peters
Sent: January 11, 2006 1:09 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: EVForge.net Update
FYI, the search capabilities for the EVDL database at EVForge.net are up and
running. Basic (but nice and fast) at first, will be adding more bells and
whistles - time permitting.
I have procured a complete EVDL backlog of individual posts that I will be
importing into the database, also falling under the "time permitting"
schedule. The current database goes back to late december, if I remember
correctly.
You don't have to be a member to use it:
http://www.evforge.net/viewpage.php?page_id=1
But it would be appreciated ;)
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not really familiar with Zivans other than the NG1 charger in my GEM car,
but here's something to ponder. On the NG1's they came with a plastic fuse
holder for the main power in to the unit with a 16 amp (yes 16 amp, kind of a
weird rating) ceramic fuse in them. Well you pull ~12 amps at 120 through this
and it gets pretty hot and it's a known issue with GEM's to melt this fuse
holder, and of course mine did just that. Here's some pictures of the
destruction and repair, the fuse holder took an EMI supression capacitor next
to it out with it.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ricksuiter/album?.dir=fb59
I just soldered a fuse in directly to minimize any unnecessary resistance the
fuse holder may have caused. I've corresponded with Greg from Elcon before and
if you buy one of these chargers from him they automatically desolder the fuse
holder and solder a fuse directly to the board.
Now granted when mine went poof I didn't have any strange electrical things
happen in the house, or even a tripped breaker.
Chuck Hursch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
My 120V Zivan K2, which had been functioning perfectly for years,
died last night shortly after I plugged it in. When I plugged it
in, it did its usual start-up sequence with the lights and all
seemed well as I went back upstairs to my apt. As I was washing
my dishes, I noticed that the 1/4-watt neon pilot light I have in
the kitchen for the 20A circuit that goes down to the carport was
out. Odd, I thought, that is very unusual. The microwave oven
on that circuit is also out (no display), so it's not just a
burnt out lightbulb. Hmmm... Yep, the circuit breaker in the
closet is tripped. Well, gotta have power to figure out what's
going on, so I decided to reset the breaker. Immediately heard a
sound that seemed like a lot of current was flowing, with a bit
of light dimming and brightening on other circuits, but the
circuit breaker did not re-trip. With the Zivan's normal
soft-start, this would be a bit unexpected, although I would
occasionally get a bit of pop and arc when I would plug the thing
in, I presume charging up some caps (pop would depend I think on
how true and quickly the plug went into the AC socket). Well,
with somewhat heavy heart, I tromped downstairs back to the
carport, opened the hatch and peered in. No lights, no nothing,
no smokey smell from the Zivan, just the usual whir of the fan
venting the rear pack enclosure. I verified pack voltage at the
charger, and nothing else seemed amiss that would cause the
charger to malfunction. I disconnected the charger from the
pack, unplugged the car, and decided to implement Plan B charging
in the morning.
Always have a backup Plan B for charging. If I did not, I would
have a semi-discharged pack sitting for days or weeks while the
charger is turned around (if repairable), shortening the life of
the pack, and making the car unusable. Plan B for me these years
is a 20A variac running through a full-wave bridge rectifier. I
have used this rig for equalizing the car's traction pack many,
many times, but I have never really done a full bulk charge. I
thought one of these days I would try a practise run or two, but
never got around to it. Now I'm doing it for real, as I write
this email. I am the servo (cranking up the knob as the pack
voltage rises, although don't have to do that much during most of
the bulk charge as the voltage doesn't move much), and it is also
non-isolated charging (yep, the car is wet from last night's
rain, and the floor of the carport is also damp, but I've been
there and done that with non-isolated chargers and haven't gotten
hurt, just don't like it anymore).
I have a call into Greg McCrea, of Electric Conversions, up in
Sacramento, the person from whom I bought the Zivan. A live
person on the other end of the line, a woman, answered the phone.
Greg is supposed to call me back. In the meantime, I pour over
in my mind the possibilities.(and it was a somewhat sleepless
night last night, thinking about the pack not getting it's
nightly fill-up, and what's going on with the charger). I'm
hoping it's nothing more than a blown rectifier that tripped the
circuit breaker the first time around, and maybe blew a fuse in
the charger the second time around. My previous K&W BC-20
charger had somewhat similar symptoms when it blew its rectifier
back in the late '90s, and fortunately that event took nothing
else in the charger with it. K&W turned it around quickly and
inexpensively, and I used that charger for another year or two
before I sold it to another EVDL'er.
So any opinions amongst you learned exorcists out there as to
what happened with the Zivan?
Thanks,
Chuck
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While it _can_ be done, don't forget that you're
changing things in the dash display as well as the
transmission. There's probably much more that I'm
missing, but most LISTers figure it's better (ie less
time and $$$) to sell the automatic; get a manual; and
avoid the hassle!
--- Andrew Paulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have the opportunity to get a nice 1998 Ford
> Ranger to convert. The
> only setback is that it is an automatic. Can anyone
> tell me how
> difficult it would be to replace the auto with a
> manual? Is it worth
> trying? I imagine I could leave the clutch out,
> which would save some
> trouble.
>
> Andrew
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With all due respect, that's where you need to
research. If you've got the hotties for that rig, you
need to get a shop manual. I remember that my '84
Tercel had the same displacement as the pickup, and
was available for the same price. I bet there are a
ton of common parts, and that some manuals will cover
the two cars together. The Tercel even had a 4WD
wagon version!
Parts distributors carry re-manufactured steering
racks, both manual and power, for every rig out there.
"Steering assembly" perhaps, but I could've sworn I
used the term "steering rack" when I did a search.
Go get 'em!
--- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Did they make 1986 toyota p/u 4wd with manual
> steering?
> What are the name of the parts?
> Not sure what else they call ist besides "rack"?
>
>
> Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:51:20 -0800 (PST)
> From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Add to
> Address Book Add Mobile Alert
> Subject: Re: power steering
> To: [email protected]
>
> You don't want to leave in the same rack. The
> gearings (leverage) will be different. In the case
> of my Civic, the hatch has manual, the sedan (200
> lbs.
> heavier) has power. I swapped in the manual, and
> life
> is just fine. I'm 163 lbs, and the wife is 130, but
> no problems parallel parking, esp. with tires
> inflated
> to 42 PSI.
>
> --- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > In general when the power steering is disconnected
> > what options do you have when you don't install a
> > replacement battery powered pump or do some sort
> of
> > belt connection?
> >
> > 1-Do you have to reconnect a different box?
> >
> > 2-Can you just disconnect the two hoses to the
> power
> > steering, and just let them drain out?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did go up to check out the E10 being liquidated. The truck is not
in good condition but it does look repairable. The driver side door
hinge is broken and the door panel is removed and left in the bed.
The accessory battery is missing along with another item under the
hood. The other item, I could not identify but from the looks of the
wires and connectors left hanging, the missing items is not related
to the drive system.
I could not get a look at the battery pack for the drive system. It
did appear that the batteries were in tact, but i was not able to get
the bed lift up to check them out. First of all I could not find the
release leaver and secondly there was a very large and heavy iron
plate in the bed of the truck.
Any way it might be a good project truck for the really handy worker,
but not for the faint of heart.
Calvin King
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bob,
When you use a auto in place of a manual, and the shifter like I have is a
console type which is a straight line type made by Hurst. You just used a
steel flex rod cable that hooks up to the same shifter. The R N D 2nd 1st is
still the same as R N 3rd 2nd 1st.
Even if it's a H-pattern standard shifter, and when you remove the shift handle
from the transmissions rods, than the shift handle becomes a forward to rear
straight line pattern from the Reversed to the 1st.
The Hurst or B & M shifters come in two units, the in cab unit can be place any
where you want and the other unit is a rod cable that you can get from 2 feet
to 14 feet long.
Instead of using a cable or shifting rods, you can used a electric solenoid
shifter kit that can be activated 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd when in manual
shift mode.
I just happens that my manual shifter in the console is a straight line Hurst
shifter that uses a 1/2 inch thick by 2 inch wide steel bar that pushes and
pulls the standard transmission mechanism which is two feet forward inside the
console. These units are call off sets, so instead of a shift handle comes out
of the floor, its is extended back into the console.
The auto transmission I'm using is a torque control type, not a rpm control
type. The rpm control transmission shifts points come in only on what you
program the value body for. My auto was set up with RPM control which would
stay in 1st until 25 mph and 2nd until 50 mph. The torque control type will
shift any time the torque drops which is also control by the value body. It
will hold the 1st and 2nd gear manually if you want.
The torque control auto are normally used in standard auto. The rpm type are
using for performance driving.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Bath<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Transmission replacement
While it _can_ be done, don't forget that you're
changing things in the dash display as well as the
transmission. There's probably much more that I'm
missing, but most LISTers figure it's better (ie less
time and $$$) to sell the automatic; get a manual; and
avoid the hassle!
--- Andrew Paulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have the opportunity to get a nice 1998 Ford
> Ranger to convert. The
> only setback is that it is an automatic. Can anyone
> tell me how
> difficult it would be to replace the auto with a
> manual? Is it worth
> trying? I imagine I could leave the clutch out,
> which would save some
> trouble.
>
> Andrew
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html<http://www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html>
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At this point,
a) My batteries will not force a current cutback as
they hit the set-point voltage. (see recent threads)
b) My charger will not take them to the voltage
required for set-point without me cranking the current
to 28A or better. Nawaz says stick to C10, or 178 Ah,
and others on the list indicate higher currents are
not detrimental to the batteries.
c) I prefer charging at 220V, because it charges in a
short time (hi amps, of course), and I lack a timer
for 220. Obviously, the PFC has a timer which is
integrated with setpoint voltage, although it can be
automatic from the time of plug-in, as well.
The point is, does anyone actually _make_ a 220V timer
out there?
--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It the charger plug doesn't have a wind-up type
> timer, you should install
> one soon. Set it to the maximum time that you think
> the batteries should
> continue charging. This will protect them from
> extreme damage if they are
> unattended and they do go into thermal runaway.
>
> When the batteries are full their terminal voltage
> goes down as their
> temperature goes up. At the end of the charge cycle
> is when your batteries
> are typically at the highest temperature.
>
> The typical charger has a "trigger voltage" that it
> must reach to cut back
> the current and switch over from constant current
> (CC) mode to constant
> voltage (CV) mode. If the battery is WAY too hot, it
> will never reach the
> trigger voltage. More typically, the battery will
> reach the trigger voltage
> and while the current is tapering off, because it
> will heat up just enough
> to drop below the trigger voltage.
>
> When the battery drops below the trigger
> voltage, the charger
> might return to the CC mode (depends upon the logic
> in the charger.) When
> this happens, the battery has entered "thermal
> runaway". It will never
> reach the trigger voltage because it is getting
> hotter and hotter as the
> charger pumps a massive overcharge into it. A
> battery must go open circuit
> for the cycle to stop (if you don't have a wind-up
> timer, or that feature
> is not built into your charger.)
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
>
> At 01:30 PM 1/7/2006, you wrote:
> >Certainly my batteries are heating up as the
> voltage
> >drops. The limit LED is not coming on. But the
> >batteries are performing fine, at least for now.
> I'm
> >at a huge loss as to what is going on. SGs look
> good;
> >maybe it is a battery in the back of the car that
> has
> >a cruddy cell I'm just missing. I didn't think one
> >cell could screw things up this significantly...
> >
> >What (chemically) occurs in thermal runaway? Is
> that
> >why I'm seeing darker (greyish) electrolyte at
> higher
> >currents after a long charge?
> >
> >--- Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > I recommend trying it again, and this time watch
> the
> > > current meter
> > > when the pack voltage starts to drop. If the
> > > current isn't also
> > > dropping, the charger is not the cause of the
> > > voltage drop.
> > >
> > > As a double-check, temporarily lower the
> charger's
> > > voltage setting
> > > and rerun the test. You should see the LIMIT
> LED
> > > come on when the
> > > pack reaches the voltage setting and the blue
> LED
> > > should start
> > > blinking, and the current should start dropping.
> > > This tells you
> > > the charger is working.
> > >
> > > Then put the voltage setting back to what you
> expect
> > > and start the
> > > charger. Manually monitor each battery voltage
> to
> > > see if you can
> > > find one or more battery voltages that are
> dropping.
> > > This might
> > > help find the bad battery.
> > >
> > > Ralph
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob Bath writes:
> > > >
> > > > I should've said "voltage threshold, thus
> starting
> > > > current cutback."
> > > > I do believe the potential for a bad battery.
> But
> > > > Interstate load tested the worst, and
> indicated
> > > that
> > > > it was fine! I'm confused!
> > > > Yes, I know about the voltage trimpot
> triggering
> > > the
> > > > timer, etc. Most of what I read indicates
> that
> > > > thermal runaway won't occur with floodies. Is
> > > this
> > > > not correct?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bob Bath writes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I ramped up the current throttle to max,
> set
> > > the
> > > > > > voltage limit to 183V, and hit 178. Got
> > > WAAAAY
> > > > > > excited, but before the blue LED came on
> > > > > indicating
> > > > > > current limit, voltage started dropping
> again.
> > >
> > > > > This
> > > > > > is what it's been doing all along. Why is
> it
> > > > > ramping
> > > > > > back voltage before it hits current limit?
> > > Water
> > > > > > levels are fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob,
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no indication for current limit.
> You
> > > need
> > > > > to watch
> > > > > your pack current meter to see how much
> current
> > > is
> > > > > flowing.
> > > > >
> > > > > The blue LED indicates that the timer is
> > > running.
> > > > > It gets
> > > > > triggered by voltage limit, regbus activity
> or
> > > hot
> > > > > reg,
> > > > > depending on switch settings.
> > > > >
> > > > > The LIMIT LED should come on if the pack
> hits
> > > the
> > > > > voltage
> > > > > limit set by the trim pot. The blue LED
> should
> > > > > start blinking
> > > > > at the same time if you have switch 1 set to
> ON.
> > >
> > > > > This is
> > > > > when the charger will start cutting back on
> the
> > > > > current.
> > > > >
> > > > > If your pack voltage peaks and then starts
> > > dropping
> > > > > before
> > > > > hitting the charger's voltage setting, the
> > > charger
> > > > > will continue
> > > > > pumping in the selected current into the
> pack.
> > > This
> > > > > may cause
> > > > > thermal run away.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe you need to set a lower limit, perhaps
> to
> > > > > account for a
> > > > > bad battery?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ralph
> > > > >
> > > > >
>
=== message truncated ===
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
On 11 Jan 2006 at 11:05, Cor van de Water wrote:
> IMHO the E-meter should include an _isolated_ power supply, it is causing too
> much headache and causes for faulty wiring (read: deadly mistakes) while in
> the
> end you need to create a supply anyway.
Are the Brusa meters really that much more expensive than an E-meter with
prescaler and DC:DC? They're an all-in-one device which runs on pack
voltage and requires no prescaler. And they're specifically intended for
EVs, not for home RE systems.
They may not have a high enough current range for some folks, though.
Victor, how much current can the current-production Brusa meters handle?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
I don't think the production GM trucks had a lift up bed, the battery box was
accessed from underneath. The important thing here is there is still
anti-freeze in the resivor so the coolant pump should still work, or at least
be rebuildable. The missing wires, perhaps the diesel heater? There is a small
exhaust pipe that exhausts out the passenger side under the cab. Can't really
tell if that's there or not.
Sounds like it would take some work to get it to work, but at least there is
some support from this truck from EV Bones.
Calvin King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I did go up to check out the E10 being liquidated. The truck is not
in good condition but it does look repairable. The driver side door
hinge is broken and the door panel is removed and left in the bed.
The accessory battery is missing along with another item under the
hood. The other item, I could not identify but from the looks of the
wires and connectors left hanging, the missing items is not related
to the drive system.
I could not get a look at the battery pack for the drive system. It
did appear that the batteries were in tact, but i was not able to get
the bed lift up to check them out. First of all I could not find the
release leaver and secondly there was a very large and heavy iron
plate in the bed of the truck.
Any way it might be a good project truck for the really handy worker,
but not for the faint of heart.
Calvin King
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
I'd recommend checking the Yahoo Groups directory. There are lots of Toyota
Pickup user groups listed there. Search "Toyota Trucks" and you'll get 6
categories and 32 group hits. Gotta be some good info there. I searched
through 2 archives for the Dodge D50/Mitsubishi MightyMax owner groups.
Lots of good info. Some people actually had posted copies of spec sheets
and pages from repair manuals.
Another thing I did once I bought the truck was went and checked out a
Chilton's Manual from the Library. The one they had was the general
Mitsubishi (All Models) one and I wound up buying the specific year range
Montero/Light truck manual. Lots of good info there. These may not tell
you what parts you can substitute but they do have what all the optional
equipment was and the wiring diagrams are handy to have.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bob Bath
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 7:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: : power steering
With all due respect, that's where you need to
research. If you've got the hotties for that rig, you
need to get a shop manual. I remember that my '84
Tercel had the same displacement as the pickup, and
was available for the same price. I bet there are a
ton of common parts, and that some manuals will cover
the two cars together. The Tercel even had a 4WD
wagon version!
Parts distributors carry re-manufactured steering
racks, both manual and power, for every rig out there.
"Steering assembly" perhaps, but I could've sworn I
used the term "steering rack" when I did a search.
Go get 'em!
--- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Did they make 1986 toyota p/u 4wd with manual
> steering?
> What are the name of the parts?
> Not sure what else they call ist besides "rack"?
>
>
> Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:51:20 -0800 (PST)
> From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Add to
> Address Book Add Mobile Alert
> Subject: Re: power steering
> To: [email protected]
>
> You don't want to leave in the same rack. The
> gearings (leverage) will be different. In the case
> of my Civic, the hatch has manual, the sedan (200
> lbs.
> heavier) has power. I swapped in the manual, and
> life
> is just fine. I'm 163 lbs, and the wife is 130, but
> no problems parallel parking, esp. with tires
> inflated
> to 42 PSI.
>
> --- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > In general when the power steering is disconnected
> > what options do you have when you don't install a
> > replacement battery powered pump or do some sort
> of
> > belt connection?
> >
> > 1-Do you have to reconnect a different box?
> >
> > 2-Can you just disconnect the two hoses to the
> power
> > steering, and just let them drain out?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So I wired up my emeter and powered it up with the HV+ line not attached to
anything. It did not turn on in the manner the manual says it should and I
can't seem to get it to do anything.
It displays both a plus and minus sign and the word ALL. It has the first
and third bar graph lights turned on. Pressing SEL toggles through the
different indicator lights as expected. Holding down the SET button for
multiple seconds does not do anything. It did not turn on the first time I
hooked the power up because I was sliding a fuse holder together and did not
make a clean connection. Breaking the power connection and reconnecting
more smoothly turned it on in this state.
Any thoughts?
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One more thought, on one car I was considering as a conversion, the
difference in weight between the auto and the manual was 100 lbs!
Admittedly this was a V8 car, but even for an enconomy car the auto
tranny might cost you a battery's worth of weight.
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
I think more voltage divisions is great.
What are the official NEDRA nominal voltages for Nicad, Nimh, LiPo,
and Lion chemistries?
--- Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Don't freak out just yet by the title. All we did was start making
> new
> classes for higher voltage cars. We came to the realization that
> cars were
> climbing in voltage and there was a big difference between a 241
> and 348.
> Kind of like over 100 volts. We had first toyed with calling the
> two new
> divisions AA and AAA but came to the additional realization that we
> may run
> out of As someday as voltages get higher and we need more
> divisions. This
> idea also goes along with wire gauge sizing, the littler the number
> the
> bigger the wire (the lower the letter in the alphabet, the higher
> the
> voltage) until they got to 0/0 then it started going back up; 1/0,
> 2/0, 3/0,
> 4/0 etc. See what I mean, 2A, 3A, 4A, 5A, etc. Using A's we run out
> of space
> eventually when we get to the AAAAAA voltage division. For slang
> puposes you
> can still tell people you are running double A division or triple A
>
> division. I hope most of you can accept all these changes in your
> life at
> one time :-)
>
> Roderick Wilde
> NEDRA Rules Committee
>
> A3 348V and above
> A2 301V-347V
> A 241V -300V
> B 193V - 240V
> C 169V - 192V
> D 145V - 168V
> E 121V - 144V
> F 97V - 120V
> G 73V - 96V
> H 49V - 72V
> I 25V - 48V
> J 24V and below
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.16/225 - Release Date:
> 1/9/2006
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
This is the first site that came up when I Googled for 220V Hot Tub Motor
Timers was:
http://www.rhtubs.com/store/time.htm
There's a fairly robust Indoor/Outdoor version for $100.
I'm sure there's lots of other applications and other tool stores may carry
similar timers.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bob Bath
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Batts. & timers & my next set-- (oh, my!)
At this point,
a) My batteries will not force a current cutback as
they hit the set-point voltage. (see recent threads)
b) My charger will not take them to the voltage
required for set-point without me cranking the current
to 28A or better. Nawaz says stick to C10, or 178 Ah,
and others on the list indicate higher currents are
not detrimental to the batteries.
c) I prefer charging at 220V, because it charges in a
short time (hi amps, of course), and I lack a timer
for 220. Obviously, the PFC has a timer which is
integrated with setpoint voltage, although it can be
automatic from the time of plug-in, as well.
The point is, does anyone actually _make_ a 220V timer
out there?
--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It the charger plug doesn't have a wind-up type
> timer, you should install
> one soon. Set it to the maximum time that you think
> the batteries should
> continue charging. This will protect them from
> extreme damage if they are
> unattended and they do go into thermal runaway.
>
> When the batteries are full their terminal voltage
> goes down as their
> temperature goes up. At the end of the charge cycle
> is when your batteries
> are typically at the highest temperature.
>
> The typical charger has a "trigger voltage" that it
> must reach to cut back
> the current and switch over from constant current
> (CC) mode to constant
> voltage (CV) mode. If the battery is WAY too hot, it
> will never reach the
> trigger voltage. More typically, the battery will
> reach the trigger voltage
> and while the current is tapering off, because it
> will heat up just enough
> to drop below the trigger voltage.
>
> When the battery drops below the trigger
> voltage, the charger
> might return to the CC mode (depends upon the logic
> in the charger.) When
> this happens, the battery has entered "thermal
> runaway". It will never
> reach the trigger voltage because it is getting
> hotter and hotter as the
> charger pumps a massive overcharge into it. A
> battery must go open circuit
> for the cycle to stop (if you don't have a wind-up
> timer, or that feature
> is not built into your charger.)
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
>
> At 01:30 PM 1/7/2006, you wrote:
> >Certainly my batteries are heating up as the
> voltage
> >drops. The limit LED is not coming on. But the
> >batteries are performing fine, at least for now.
> I'm
> >at a huge loss as to what is going on. SGs look
> good;
> >maybe it is a battery in the back of the car that
> has
> >a cruddy cell I'm just missing. I didn't think one
> >cell could screw things up this significantly...
> >
> >What (chemically) occurs in thermal runaway? Is
> that
> >why I'm seeing darker (greyish) electrolyte at
> higher
> >currents after a long charge?
> >
> >--- Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > I recommend trying it again, and this time watch
> the
> > > current meter
> > > when the pack voltage starts to drop. If the
> > > current isn't also
> > > dropping, the charger is not the cause of the
> > > voltage drop.
> > >
> > > As a double-check, temporarily lower the
> charger's
> > > voltage setting
> > > and rerun the test. You should see the LIMIT
> LED
> > > come on when the
> > > pack reaches the voltage setting and the blue
> LED
> > > should start
> > > blinking, and the current should start dropping.
> > > This tells you
> > > the charger is working.
> > >
> > > Then put the voltage setting back to what you
> expect
> > > and start the
> > > charger. Manually monitor each battery voltage
> to
> > > see if you can
> > > find one or more battery voltages that are
> dropping.
> > > This might
> > > help find the bad battery.
> > >
> > > Ralph
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob Bath writes:
> > > >
> > > > I should've said "voltage threshold, thus
> starting
> > > > current cutback."
> > > > I do believe the potential for a bad battery.
> But
> > > > Interstate load tested the worst, and
> indicated
> > > that
> > > > it was fine! I'm confused!
> > > > Yes, I know about the voltage trimpot
> triggering
> > > the
> > > > timer, etc. Most of what I read indicates
> that
> > > > thermal runaway won't occur with floodies. Is
> > > this
> > > > not correct?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bob Bath writes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I ramped up the current throttle to max,
> set
> > > the
> > > > > > voltage limit to 183V, and hit 178. Got
> > > WAAAAY
> > > > > > excited, but before the blue LED came on
> > > > > indicating
> > > > > > current limit, voltage started dropping
> again.
> > >
> > > > > This
> > > > > > is what it's been doing all along. Why is
> it
> > > > > ramping
> > > > > > back voltage before it hits current limit?
> > > Water
> > > > > > levels are fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob,
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no indication for current limit.
> You
> > > need
> > > > > to watch
> > > > > your pack current meter to see how much
> current
> > > is
> > > > > flowing.
> > > > >
> > > > > The blue LED indicates that the timer is
> > > running.
> > > > > It gets
> > > > > triggered by voltage limit, regbus activity
> or
> > > hot
> > > > > reg,
> > > > > depending on switch settings.
> > > > >
> > > > > The LIMIT LED should come on if the pack
> hits
> > > the
> > > > > voltage
> > > > > limit set by the trim pot. The blue LED
> should
> > > > > start blinking
> > > > > at the same time if you have switch 1 set to
> ON.
> > >
> > > > > This is
> > > > > when the charger will start cutting back on
> the
> > > > > current.
> > > > >
> > > > > If your pack voltage peaks and then starts
> > > dropping
> > > > > before
> > > > > hitting the charger's voltage setting, the
> > > charger
> > > > > will continue
> > > > > pumping in the selected current into the
> pack.
> > > This
> > > > > may cause
> > > > > thermal run away.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe you need to set a lower limit, perhaps
> to
> > > > > account for a
> > > > > bad battery?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ralph
> > > > >
> > > > >
>
=== message truncated ===
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
