EV Digest 5085
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: PFC behavior Re: False alarm! RE: battery advice.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Batts. & timers & my next set-- (oh, my!)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=756819
by Calvin King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) s10
by "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) next project
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) alum flywheel?
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Comm colour, was: Re: Motor Question, comm bar burnishing
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: alum flywheel?
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Pack voltage switches for peripheral devices?
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Batts. & timers & my next set-- (oh, my!)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Transmission replacement
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Emeter first power up problems...
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EVForge.net Update
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EVForge.net Update
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Transmission replacement
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Transmission replacement
by Andrew Paulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Transmission replacement
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=756819
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
We had a problem with the charger not restarting when a constantly on
charger was used with an intermittent load. This happened when using a small
genset and a large motor being used intermittently (hybrid operation such as
Sheer's trip to Portland towing the genset on the trailer.) The charger
intentionally did not have a latch so it would re-enable when the load
pulled the battery voltage down before it timed out. It was also simpler
because there was no need to have a power on enable circuit to put the latch
in the preferred state on power up.
We needed a way of re-enabling the charger AFTER it timed out and the low
bat re-enable was added.
Now that the low voltage re-enable exists on the board, the unlatched
operation is no longer required. The next control board will have a latch on
it as desired.
When I get a few hours, I will look into the options for installing a latch
on the existing control boards.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:30 AM
Subject: RE: PFC behavior Re: False alarm! RE: battery advice.
> I seem to recall a previous thread discussing this subject. Supposedly
the
> voltage limit is not a "latch", and after the voltage limit is reached and
> the timer starts, the timer will stop if the voltage drops back below the
> limit (such as the high current situation described by Roger). I am pretty
> sure this is specifically by design. Probably to keep batteries charged
if
> the charger is left on in a permanent situation.
>
> Don
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Paul G.
> Sent: January 9, 2006 9:19 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: PFC behavior Re: False alarm! RE: battery advice.
>
>
> On Jan 7, 2006, at 1:41 PM, Roger Stockton wrote:
>
> > What is happening is that you have the limit set for 173V and are able
> > to force the batteries to reach this level, but the voltage is higher
> > than they want and so they are overheating because the current does
> > not taper off as it should. As they heat up, they draw more current
> > until the charger is once again in current limit; at this point the
> > charger is forced to lower its output voltage to maintain the current
> > at this
> > (maximum) level, and so the limit LED and timer go off as the charger
> > returns to bulk mode. If left this way it will continue grossly
> > overcharging your batteries until a maximum charge duration timer
> > shuts things down. If I recall Bill Dube's report correctly, the
> > PFCxx does not have such a timer and you must use an external timer on
> > the AC input to ensure the charger does not continue charging forever
> > should something unexpected (such as thermal runaway or a shorted cell
> > or two,
> > etc.) occur.
>
> Is this true Rich? The shutoff timer will go back off if the battery
voltage
> drops after it hits the set voltage.
>
> Can that behavior be easily switched off? That is to say, can the timer be
> forced to continue the countdown and switch the charger off? I would not
> want the charger timer to go back off because one common way for the pack
> voltage to drop during charge is thermal runaway (especially when you
charge
> faster.)
>
> Paul "neon" G.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob,
I use this simple timer for many items however it is a hard set type unit
for permenant installs
Grainger.com item 6X760
Think of a two leg (110v X 2)on / off timer for heavy duty use. (40 amps is
heavy duty when you think of outdoor lights but is pretty light for many
applications revolving around a charger)
Pedroman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Bath
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Batts. & timers & my next set-- (oh, my!)
At this point,
a) My batteries will not force a current cutback as
they hit the set-point voltage. (see recent threads)
b) My charger will not take them to the voltage
required for set-point without me cranking the current
to 28A or better. Nawaz says stick to C10, or 178 Ah,
and others on the list indicate higher currents are
not detrimental to the batteries.
c) I prefer charging at 220V, because it charges in a
short time (hi amps, of course), and I lack a timer
for 220. Obviously, the PFC has a timer which is
integrated with setpoint voltage, although it can be
automatic from the time of plug-in, as well.
The point is, does anyone actually _make_ a 220V timer
out there?
--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It the charger plug doesn't have a wind-up type
> timer, you should install
> one soon. Set it to the maximum time that you think
> the batteries should
> continue charging. This will protect them from
> extreme damage if they are
> unattended and they do go into thermal runaway.
>
> When the batteries are full their terminal voltage
> goes down as their
> temperature goes up. At the end of the charge cycle
> is when your batteries
> are typically at the highest temperature.
>
> The typical charger has a "trigger voltage" that it
> must reach to cut back
> the current and switch over from constant current
> (CC) mode to constant
> voltage (CV) mode. If the battery is WAY too hot, it
> will never reach the
> trigger voltage. More typically, the battery will
> reach the trigger voltage
> and while the current is tapering off, because it
> will heat up just enough
> to drop below the trigger voltage.
>
> When the battery drops below the trigger
> voltage, the charger
> might return to the CC mode (depends upon the logic
> in the charger.) When
> this happens, the battery has entered "thermal
> runaway". It will never
> reach the trigger voltage because it is getting
> hotter and hotter as the
> charger pumps a massive overcharge into it. A
> battery must go open circuit
> for the cycle to stop (if you don't have a wind-up
> timer, or that feature
> is not built into your charger.)
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
>
> At 01:30 PM 1/7/2006, you wrote:
> >Certainly my batteries are heating up as the
> voltage
> >drops. The limit LED is not coming on. But the
> >batteries are performing fine, at least for now.
> I'm
> >at a huge loss as to what is going on. SGs look
> good;
> >maybe it is a battery in the back of the car that
> has
> >a cruddy cell I'm just missing. I didn't think one
> >cell could screw things up this significantly...
> >
> >What (chemically) occurs in thermal runaway? Is
> that
> >why I'm seeing darker (greyish) electrolyte at
> higher
> >currents after a long charge?
> >
> >--- Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > I recommend trying it again, and this time watch
> the
> > > current meter
> > > when the pack voltage starts to drop. If the
> > > current isn't also
> > > dropping, the charger is not the cause of the
> > > voltage drop.
> > >
> > > As a double-check, temporarily lower the
> charger's
> > > voltage setting
> > > and rerun the test. You should see the LIMIT
> LED
> > > come on when the
> > > pack reaches the voltage setting and the blue
> LED
> > > should start
> > > blinking, and the current should start dropping.
> > > This tells you
> > > the charger is working.
> > >
> > > Then put the voltage setting back to what you
> expect
> > > and start the
> > > charger. Manually monitor each battery voltage
> to
> > > see if you can
> > > find one or more battery voltages that are
> dropping.
> > > This might
> > > help find the bad battery.
> > >
> > > Ralph
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob Bath writes:
> > > >
> > > > I should've said "voltage threshold, thus
> starting
> > > > current cutback."
> > > > I do believe the potential for a bad battery.
> But
> > > > Interstate load tested the worst, and
> indicated
> > > that
> > > > it was fine! I'm confused!
> > > > Yes, I know about the voltage trimpot
> triggering
> > > the
> > > > timer, etc. Most of what I read indicates
> that
> > > > thermal runaway won't occur with floodies. Is
> > > this
> > > > not correct?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bob Bath writes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I ramped up the current throttle to max,
> set
> > > the
> > > > > > voltage limit to 183V, and hit 178. Got
> > > WAAAAY
> > > > > > excited, but before the blue LED came on
> > > > > indicating
> > > > > > current limit, voltage started dropping
> again.
> > >
> > > > > This
> > > > > > is what it's been doing all along. Why is
> it
> > > > > ramping
> > > > > > back voltage before it hits current limit?
> > > Water
> > > > > > levels are fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob,
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no indication for current limit.
> You
> > > need
> > > > > to watch
> > > > > your pack current meter to see how much
> current
> > > is
> > > > > flowing.
> > > > >
> > > > > The blue LED indicates that the timer is
> > > running.
> > > > > It gets
> > > > > triggered by voltage limit, regbus activity
> or
> > > hot
> > > > > reg,
> > > > > depending on switch settings.
> > > > >
> > > > > The LIMIT LED should come on if the pack
> hits
> > > the
> > > > > voltage
> > > > > limit set by the trim pot. The blue LED
> should
> > > > > start blinking
> > > > > at the same time if you have switch 1 set to
> ON.
> > >
> > > > > This is
> > > > > when the charger will start cutting back on
> the
> > > > > current.
> > > > >
> > > > > If your pack voltage peaks and then starts
> > > dropping
> > > > > before
> > > > > hitting the charger's voltage setting, the
> > > charger
> > > > > will continue
> > > > > pumping in the selected current into the
> pack.
> > > This
> > > > > may cause
> > > > > thermal run away.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe you need to set a lower limit, perhaps
> to
> > > > > account for a
> > > > > bad battery?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ralph
> > > > >
> > > > >
>
=== message truncated ===
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The small exhaust pipes were present. Anti-freeze was present.
On Jan 12, 2006, at 1:13 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
Subject: Re: http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=756819
I don't think the production GM trucks had a lift up bed, the battery
box was accessed from underneath. The important thing here is there
is still anti-freeze in the resivor so the coolant pump should still
work, or at least be rebuildable. The missing wires, perhaps the
diesel heater? There is a small exhaust pipe that exhausts out the
passenger side under the cab. Can't really tell if that's there or not.
Sounds like it would take some work to get it to work, but at
least there is some support from this truck from EV Bones.
Calvin King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I did go up to check out the E10 being liquidated. The truck is not
in good condition but it does look repairable. The driver side door
hinge is broken and the door panel is removed and left in the bed.
The accessory battery is missing along with another item under the
hood. The other item, I could not identify but from the looks of the
wires and connectors left hanging, the missing items is not related
to the drive system.
I could not get a look at the battery pack for the drive system. It
did appear that the batteries were in tact, but i was not able to get
the bed lift up to check them out. First of all I could not find the
release leaver and secondly there was a very large and heavy iron
plate in the bed of the truck.
Any way it might be a good project truck for the really handy worker,
but not for the faint of heart.
Calvin King
Thundering Springs Baptist Church
"Lifting Up the Name of Jesus"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Better hurry on this one...looks in good shape
http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=756819&convertTo=USD
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lots of those 4wd tercel wagons in Fairbanks, AK.
I'll love to get one for my next project.
http://www.electroauto.com/ doesn't make an adaptor
for subaru, other than the justy. Not sure why?
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:00:26 -0800 (PST)
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Add to
Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: : power steering
To: [email protected]
With all due respect, that's where you need to
research. If you've got the hotties for that rig, you
need to get a shop manual. I remember that my '84
Tercel had the same displacement as the pickup, and
was available for the same price. I bet there are a
ton of common parts, and that some manuals will cover
the two cars together. The Tercel even had a 4WD
wagon version!
Parts distributors carry re-manufactured steering
racks, both manual and power, for every rig out there.
"Steering assembly" perhaps, but I could've sworn I
used the term "steering rack" when I did a search.
Go get 'em!
--- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Did they make 1986 toyota p/u 4wd with manual
> steering?
> What are the name of the parts?
> Not sure what else they call ist besides "rack"?
>
>
> Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:51:20 -0800 (PST)
> From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Add to
> Address Book Add Mobile Alert
> Subject: Re: power steering
> To: [email protected]
>
> You don't want to leave in the same rack. The
> gearings (leverage) will be different. In the case
> of my Civic, the hatch has manual, the sedan (200
> lbs.
> heavier) has power. I swapped in the manual, and
> life
> is just fine. I'm 163 lbs, and the wife is 130, but
> no problems parallel parking, esp. with tires
> inflated
> to 42 PSI.
>
> --- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > In general when the power steering is disconnected
> > what options do you have when you don't install a
> > replacement battery powered pump or do some sort
> of
> > belt connection?
> >
> > 1-Do you have to reconnect a different box?
> >
> > 2-Can you just disconnect the two hoses to the
> power
> > steering, and just let them drain out?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came
out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These guys make a bunch of alum flywheels.
http://www.fidanza.com
What is the advantage of using a lighter flywheel?
I'm using a warp 9" with a manual 86 toyota pickup
4wd.
Thanks
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1/11/06, James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 01:08 PM 11/01/06 -0800, Jim Husted wrote:
> >The dark patina develops as the brush and comm create it. I've been told
> >that it can take up to 1/4 of the brush to create a nice patina. I
> >believe that would apply to just the OEM users, as most of the EV comm's
> >I've seen tend not to develop that solid deep dark patina I'm used to
> >seeing with lift motors.
>
> G'day Jim - and all
>
> I read somewhere (can't remember where, and assuming I remembered
> correctly) that the patina on the commutator will develop quicker in more
> humid environments.
Not sure if this is related, but an old trick for radio-control car
builders was to run the motor under water for half an hour, at low
speed, to break in the brushes and commutator surface quickly.
Probably not a good idea for our motors, as it would wash the grease
out of the bearings, which aren't sealed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The way I understand it is that a lighter flywheel (same size, lighter
material) will have less rotational inertia. The other way to decrease the
rotational inertia is to decrease the diameter of the steel flywheel. This
equals less torque to spin up the flywheel and more torque to accelerate the
vehicle. Once your are up to speed though it doesen't take any more power
to maintain the speed of a heavier flywheel than a light one. The
efficiency you gain would be on accelerations. One thing we shoud keep in
mind is that without a controller that has speed limiting and without a
speed sensor, a lighter flywheel will allow the motor to overspeed much
faster if you miss a shift. See Jeff Shanab's prior post # 52658 and #52570
subj: Racing Clutch (was RE: Adapter Plate Methods) for a pics of the
results.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of mike golub
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: alum flywheel?
These guys make a bunch of alum flywheels.
http://www.fidanza.com
What is the advantage of using a lighter flywheel?
I'm using a warp 9" with a manual 86 toyota pickup
4wd.
Thanks
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
O.K I admit defeat I have put in an Allbright contactor today and it works
fine although I did get a belt from the damn thing as I was careless, but it
does keep you on your toes !!.
I did try usual suppliers of electrical hardware but most of the auto parts
are for 12volts or 48volts. The Electrical suppliers do not normally deal
with DC high current switching its all 3 phase AC and the electronic parts
suppliers seem to end at about 50volts 5 amps. So I was going to build a
little MOSfet switcher and then realised I had a contactor in the junk box
so have fitted that.
So thanks to all for the advice, now hopefully I can keep alittle warmer
and demist the windscreen.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pack voltage switches for peripheral devices?
From: John Luck Home
Tried the snubber and the diode across 3 sets of contacts in one relay
today
and it was greatly improved although still some arcing. After about 10
on/off
cycles the contacts welded shut, so back to the drawing board :-(
Remind me again; what voltage and current are you trying to switch? And
what
were the ratings of the contacts you tried in series, and the snubber part
values?
Also, I'm not sure what your goal is. You can buy off-the-shelf relays
(mechanical
and solid state) that will safely switch your heater. What was the reason
for wanting
to build something yourself?
I was thinking of using the Infeon Cool MOS SPP11N60S5 rated at 500volts
11amps to turn off the heater before opening the relay contacts. This
would give
me a redundant safe(ish) method of isolating the heater and only
switching the
relay at zero amps.
A redundant circuit requires that *either* the MOSFET or the relay can
safely turn
off the load all by itself. If the relay can't safely break the load by
itself, then don't use it.
Are there any electronic guru's who could suggest a way of switching on
the MOSFET safely using the existing switched 12volt relay that operates
the blower motor.
What you are describing is a "solid state relay". There are dozens of
circuits for them,
and many commercial products. They usually use an optocoupler.
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/227 - Release Date:
11/01/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bob,
The C10 rating or less is for the finish charging for batteries over 75 to 80%
charge. This is about the set point on my PFC. It is recommended to charge
deep cycle lead-acid batteries at 20 percent up to the 80% by a Trojan rep. for
long life. You can charge more than that if you want. There are many deep
cycle charging and maintenance recommendations that are listed on the web
sites.
This means on my T-145's which are rated at 260 AH can be charge at 52 amps
during the bulk charge. If I try to charge these batteries at any ampere less
than 14 amps, it will seems that it will never get to the set point of 7.5
volts per battery, it may takes a tremendous amount of time.
If your batteries are 178 AH, you could charge at 178 AH x 20% = 35.6 amperes
during the bulk charging which should bring them up to your set point.
I will normally back off the ampere some, so as just to keep a low simmer of
bubbling, not a rapid bubbling.
I been charging this way now for 31 years now. My first set of batteries where
sometime else. When I pick up my first EV, they did a demo charge on one of
there large pad mount chargers that start the charge at 200 amps which reach
the set point in seconds and finish charge dropping the current to 10 amps in
with 10 minutes. These charging stations were fed directly with a 3-Phase bank
of 25 kva transformers wire in 125/250 vac delta. These first set of batteries
lasted to 1985 which was about 10 years, because I would charge them when they
still had 75% charge and only took them to 90% at a much lower charge rate.
My on board charger had a 100 amp maximum rating. My home charging circuit was
60 ampere maximum, so I would start at about 50 amperes. I also found that my
voltage to my house was only 115/230 vac, so I had the power company tap up my
transformer to 125/250 vac at no load. This would pull down to 123 amperes in
the summer at the 50 amp load. Winter time, my home pulls more load, so it
will be about 121 amperes. At 115 volts, I seen it at 110 volts at times.
This may be a area you could check.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Bath<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: Batts. & timers & my next set-- (oh, my!)
At this point,
a) My batteries will not force a current cutback as
they hit the set-point voltage. (see recent threads)
b) My charger will not take them to the voltage
required for set-point without me cranking the current
to 28A or better. Nawaz says stick to C10, or 178 Ah,
and others on the list indicate higher currents are
not detrimental to the batteries.
c) I prefer charging at 220V, because it charges in a
short time (hi amps, of course), and I lack a timer
for 220. Obviously, the PFC has a timer which is
integrated with setpoint voltage, although it can be
automatic from the time of plug-in, as well.
The point is, does anyone actually _make_ a 220V timer
out there?
--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> It the charger plug doesn't have a wind-up type
> timer, you should install
> one soon. Set it to the maximum time that you think
> the batteries should
> continue charging. This will protect them from
> extreme damage if they are
> unattended and they do go into thermal runaway.
>
> When the batteries are full their terminal voltage
> goes down as their
> temperature goes up. At the end of the charge cycle
> is when your batteries
> are typically at the highest temperature.
>
> The typical charger has a "trigger voltage" that it
> must reach to cut back
> the current and switch over from constant current
> (CC) mode to constant
> voltage (CV) mode. If the battery is WAY too hot, it
> will never reach the
> trigger voltage. More typically, the battery will
> reach the trigger voltage
> and while the current is tapering off, because it
> will heat up just enough
> to drop below the trigger voltage.
>
> When the battery drops below the trigger
> voltage, the charger
> might return to the CC mode (depends upon the logic
> in the charger.) When
> this happens, the battery has entered "thermal
> runaway". It will never
> reach the trigger voltage because it is getting
> hotter and hotter as the
> charger pumps a massive overcharge into it. A
> battery must go open circuit
> for the cycle to stop (if you don't have a wind-up
> timer, or that feature
> is not built into your charger.)
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
>
> At 01:30 PM 1/7/2006, you wrote:
> >Certainly my batteries are heating up as the
> voltage
> >drops. The limit LED is not coming on. But the
> >batteries are performing fine, at least for now.
> I'm
> >at a huge loss as to what is going on. SGs look
> good;
> >maybe it is a battery in the back of the car that
> has
> >a cruddy cell I'm just missing. I didn't think one
> >cell could screw things up this significantly...
> >
> >What (chemically) occurs in thermal runaway? Is
> that
> >why I'm seeing darker (greyish) electrolyte at
> higher
> >currents after a long charge?
> >
> >--- Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > I recommend trying it again, and this time watch
> the
> > > current meter
> > > when the pack voltage starts to drop. If the
> > > current isn't also
> > > dropping, the charger is not the cause of the
> > > voltage drop.
> > >
> > > As a double-check, temporarily lower the
> charger's
> > > voltage setting
> > > and rerun the test. You should see the LIMIT
> LED
> > > come on when the
> > > pack reaches the voltage setting and the blue
> LED
> > > should start
> > > blinking, and the current should start dropping.
> > > This tells you
> > > the charger is working.
> > >
> > > Then put the voltage setting back to what you
> expect
> > > and start the
> > > charger. Manually monitor each battery voltage
> to
> > > see if you can
> > > find one or more battery voltages that are
> dropping.
> > > This might
> > > help find the bad battery.
> > >
> > > Ralph
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob Bath writes:
> > > >
> > > > I should've said "voltage threshold, thus
> starting
> > > > current cutback."
> > > > I do believe the potential for a bad battery.
> But
> > > > Interstate load tested the worst, and
> indicated
> > > that
> > > > it was fine! I'm confused!
> > > > Yes, I know about the voltage trimpot
> triggering
> > > the
> > > > timer, etc. Most of what I read indicates
> that
> > > > thermal runaway won't occur with floodies. Is
> > > this
> > > > not correct?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bob Bath writes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I ramped up the current throttle to max,
> set
> > > the
> > > > > > voltage limit to 183V, and hit 178. Got
> > > WAAAAY
> > > > > > excited, but before the blue LED came on
> > > > > indicating
> > > > > > current limit, voltage started dropping
> again.
> > >
> > > > > This
> > > > > > is what it's been doing all along. Why is
> it
> > > > > ramping
> > > > > > back voltage before it hits current limit?
> > > Water
> > > > > > levels are fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob,
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no indication for current limit.
> You
> > > need
> > > > > to watch
> > > > > your pack current meter to see how much
> current
> > > is
> > > > > flowing.
> > > > >
> > > > > The blue LED indicates that the timer is
> > > running.
> > > > > It gets
> > > > > triggered by voltage limit, regbus activity
> or
> > > hot
> > > > > reg,
> > > > > depending on switch settings.
> > > > >
> > > > > The LIMIT LED should come on if the pack
> hits
> > > the
> > > > > voltage
> > > > > limit set by the trim pot. The blue LED
> should
> > > > > start blinking
> > > > > at the same time if you have switch 1 set to
> ON.
> > >
> > > > > This is
> > > > > when the charger will start cutting back on
> the
> > > > > current.
> > > > >
> > > > > If your pack voltage peaks and then starts
> > > dropping
> > > > > before
> > > > > hitting the charger's voltage setting, the
> > > charger
> > > > > will continue
> > > > > pumping in the selected current into the
> pack.
> > > This
> > > > > may cause
> > > > > thermal run away.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe you need to set a lower limit, perhaps
> to
> > > > > account for a
> > > > > bad battery?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ralph
> > > > >
> > > > >
>
=== message truncated ===
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html<http://www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html>
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My auto transmission is a all aluminum unit without torque converter weighs
less than the heavy cast iron transmission that has a 1/4 inch steel reinforced
bell housing with a heavy flywheel and pressure plate.
Could put in another all aluminum manual transmission with aluminum flywheel
and bell housing for about $3500.00 which would weigh the same as the automatic
which cost about $1000.00.
I am not driving the long distances many of the EV'ers are doing, so I do not
have to charge every day or try to get every bit of AH out of the battery to
where I am going.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: David Dymaxion<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: Transmission replacement
One more thought, on one car I was considering as a conversion, the
difference in weight between the auto and the manual was 100 lbs!
Admittedly this was a V8 car, but even for an enconomy car the auto
tranny might cost you a battery's worth of weight.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Damon,
You have a meter lock-up. Disconnect all the power and let it set a while. I
find that My fuses would not go in smoothly, so I left off the power wires to
the fuse holders or some where done the line at a terminal strip or even at the
power source.
Also check the voltage going to the fuse holders and after the fuses.
I install the fuses first, than connected up my 12 volt isolated DC source and
than connected up main battery most positive cable. I have safety contactors
that turn off the battery pack to the main contactor and controller unit, so if
you have anything like that, make sure your battery pack voltage tap is on the
battery side of any cutoff switches or contactor.
Leaving on the 12 volt connected, and disconnecting the main battery pack for
maintenance, you will not lose any data. If you are using a 12 DC-DC converter
off the main battery pack, then you will lose the data. Connect up the 12 V DC
power first and than the battery pack voltage last.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: damon henry<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:59 PM
Subject: Emeter first power up problems...
So I wired up my emeter and powered it up with the HV+ line not attached to
anything. It did not turn on in the manner the manual says it should and I
can't seem to get it to do anything.
It displays both a plus and minus sign and the word ALL. It has the first
and third bar graph lights turned on. Pressing SEL toggles through the
different indicator lights as expected. Holding down the SET button for
multiple seconds does not do anything. It did not turn on the first time I
hooked the power up because I was sliding a fuse holder together and did not
make a clean connection. Breaking the power connection and reconnecting
more smoothly turned it on in this state.
Any thoughts?
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FYI, the search capabilities for the EVDL database at EVForge.net
are up and
running. Basic (but nice and fast) at first, will be adding more
bells and
whistles - time permitting.
http://www.evforge.net/viewpage.php?page_id=1
Nice. Been wanting an easy-to-use search interface to the archives.
This looks like a good start.
Perhaps as an option, especially for those on slower connections, you
could add a summary view for search results? Right now if I search
for "battery" in message I get the max results of 200 and all 200
messages are shown on the page. How about showing just the titles/
dates, with or without a hierarchy?
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.evforge.net/viewpage.php?page_id=1
> FYI, the search capabilities for the EVDL database at EVForge.net are up
> and running. Basic (but nice and fast) at first, will be adding more
> bells and whistles - time permitting.
Threading? I have 9000 EVDL messages in my gmail account alone, and
they are automatically (and intelligently) threaded.
The search is also very good on gmail, as it gives you a summary of
the results including the subject and a preview of the first new text
in the post. Very quick to use as opposed to having pages of results
to slog through.
Good idea to have a full searchable archive though, the yahoo one
isn't much use.
What would also be nice is a place where EVDL subscribers could email
attachments to, and then link to them on the list.
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It depends on what you are trying to accomplish and how much ambition you
have. In line transmissions are easy enough to come by since most rangers
were made with 5 speeds. You would have to install a hydraulic clutch and
pedal of course. The slave cylinder is inside the bell housing on a Ranger
and should come with the transmission.
On the other hand I have chosen to keep my automatic in my Saab conversion.
It is a performance model with a locking torque converter (Ranger will have
one as well). The automatic is actually a bit less complicated to couple
to the motor. There are those that would argue the point that automatics
are lossy in efficiency, but in my case I wish to retain the power equipment
and nicety of the vehicle. I only need to drive 15 to 20 miles per day and
it will do that easilly enough.
Just my two cents worth. (BTW I do own a 97 Ranger and am familiar with
them.)
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Paulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:20 PM
Subject: Transmission replacement
Hi everyone,
I have the opportunity to get a nice 1998 Ford Ranger to convert. The
only setback is that it is an automatic. Can anyone tell me how
difficult it would be to replace the auto with a manual? Is it worth
trying? I imagine I could leave the clutch out, which would save some
trouble.
Andrew
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does the automatic transmission need a different adaptor than the
manual? And if so, are they available or is this something I would
need to get custom made? I also only need about 15 miles range to get
to work and back.
On 1/12/06, Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It depends on what you are trying to accomplish and how much ambition you
> have. In line transmissions are easy enough to come by since most rangers
> were made with 5 speeds. You would have to install a hydraulic clutch and
> pedal of course. The slave cylinder is inside the bell housing on a Ranger
> and should come with the transmission.
>
> On the other hand I have chosen to keep my automatic in my Saab conversion.
> It is a performance model with a locking torque converter (Ranger will have
> one as well). The automatic is actually a bit less complicated to couple
> to the motor. There are those that would argue the point that automatics
> are lossy in efficiency, but in my case I wish to retain the power equipment
> and nicety of the vehicle. I only need to drive 15 to 20 miles per day and
> it will do that easilly enough.
>
> Just my two cents worth. (BTW I do own a 97 Ranger and am familiar with
> them.)
>
> Mark Ward
> St. Charles, MO
> 95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
> www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Paulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:20 PM
> Subject: Transmission replacement
>
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I have the opportunity to get a nice 1998 Ford Ranger to convert. The
> > only setback is that it is an automatic. Can anyone tell me how
> > difficult it would be to replace the auto with a manual? Is it worth
> > trying? I imagine I could leave the clutch out, which would save some
> > trouble.
> >
> > Andrew
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes it would be definitely a custom job. The one for the Ranger is well
known. However the cost would be less than buying and re-rigging a MT.
-- Andrew Paulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does the automatic transmission need a different adaptor than the
> manual? And if so, are they available or is this something I would
> need to get custom made? I also only need about 15 miles range to get
> to work and back.
>
> On 1/12/06, Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It depends on what you are trying to accomplish and how much ambition you
> > have. In line transmissions are easy enough to come by since most rangers
> > were made with 5 speeds. You would have to install a hydraulic clutch and
> > pedal of course. The slave cylinder is inside the bell housing on a Ranger
> > and should come with the transmission.
> >
> > On the other hand I have chosen to keep my automatic in my Saab conversion.
> > It is a performance model with a locking torque converter (Ranger will have
> > one as well). The automatic is actually a bit less complicated to couple
> > to the motor. There are those that would argue the point that automatics
> > are lossy in efficiency, but in my case I wish to retain the power equipment
> > and nicety of the vehicle. I only need to drive 15 to 20 miles per day and
> > it will do that easilly enough.
> >
> > Just my two cents worth. (BTW I do own a 97 Ranger and am familiar with
> > them.)
> >
> > Mark Ward
> > St. Charles, MO
> > 95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
> > www.saabrina.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andrew Paulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:20 PM
> > Subject: Transmission replacement
> >
> >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > I have the opportunity to get a nice 1998 Ford Ranger to convert. The
> > > only setback is that it is an automatic. Can anyone tell me how
> > > difficult it would be to replace the auto with a manual? Is it worth
> > > trying? I imagine I could leave the clutch out, which would save some
> > > trouble.
> > >
> > > Andrew
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Solectria E10 trucks (ICE S-10 gliders converted by Solectria) had a
tilt up bed.
The production electric S-10's made by GM, such as the one up for
auction, did not have tilt up beds - the pack is in indeed accessed from
underneath. The trucks are set up as front wheel drive; the space where
the drive shaft and differential would normally be is filled by a large
plastic box that contains all 26 batteries. So it is a heavy unit (1000+
pounds) to lower and requires a suitable lift. Look under the truck for
a black plastic tub between the frame rails - you may be able to see the
"danger high voltage" warning label on the side.
The 1997's were all made with PbA batteries; these are an unusual size
that is no longer made. Some 1998's came from the factory with NiMH
batteries. The best (only?) option I see for this truck is to go for the
EV Bones NiMH upgrade. If you want to try and retrofit in some PbA
batteries of a different size, expect some *major* work as you reverse
engineer the battery control module and build a different battery box.
From the limited pictures posted, I can't see what is missing under the
hood. Having the 12-volt aux battery removed could actually be a good
thing as taking it out before storage decreases the risk of damage to
the electronics (unless of course it was left in until long after dead
and cracked from freezing and only then removed).
Good luck!
Ricky Suiter wrote:
I don't think the production GM trucks had a lift up bed, the battery box was
accessed from underneath. The important thing here is there is still
anti-freeze in the resivor so the coolant pump should still work, or at least
be rebuildable. The missing wires, perhaps the diesel heater? There is a small
exhaust pipe that exhausts out the passenger side under the cab. Can't really
tell if that's there or not.
Sounds like it would take some work to get it to work, but at least there is some support from this truck from EV Bones.
Calvin King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I did go up to check out the E10 being liquidated. The truck is not
in good condition but it does look repairable. The driver side door
hinge is broken and the door panel is removed and left in the bed.
The accessory battery is missing along with another item under the
hood. The other item, I could not identify but from the looks of the
wires and connectors left hanging, the missing items is not related
to the drive system.
I could not get a look at the battery pack for the drive system. It
did appear that the batteries were in tact, but i was not able to get
the bed lift up to check them out. First of all I could not find the
release leaver and secondly there was a very large and heavy iron
plate in the bed of the truck.
Any way it might be a good project truck for the really handy worker,
but not for the faint of heart.
Calvin King
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it!
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
