EV Digest 5095
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: power steering
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Longevity of ceramic heater core
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Schaef Motor Sep_ex vs Series help & Ceramic Heater
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Thundersky astonishing wishes [long] Great Letter!
by Doc Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Bad floodies??
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) new "This New Car" Radio Show now on-line
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Longevity of ceramic heater core
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Longevity of ceramic heater core
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Longevity of ceramic heater core
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Milestone achieved but help needed
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Bad floodies??
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Schaef Motor Sep_ex vs Series help & Ceramic Heater
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Bad floodies??
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Page 36 in the Harbor Freight catalog.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Air body saw
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Bad floodies??
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Who Killed the Electric Car? Sold Out at Sundance Film Festival
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: battery confusion abounds was Re: Bad floodies??
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Vacuum assist for brakes... was Re: Page 36 in the Harbor Freight
catalog.
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Kostov
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
These are European pumps and must be ordered from the UK. If you live in
North America, keep in mind that there are no North American replacement
parts available. Also, please post your findings, it is always interesting
to hear new alternatives.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Osmo Sarin
Sent: January 16, 2006 1:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: power steering
Here are some electric steering pumps also:
http://www.bba-reman.com/content.aspx?
content=remanufactured_electric_power_steering_and_electric_hydraulic_po
wer_steering
Osmo Sarin
16.1.2006 kello 07:15, Christopher Robison kirjoitti:
On Sat, 2006-01-14 at 16:27 -0800, mike golub wrote:
>
>> I heard that the Mister Two electric pump is noisey?
>> and draws lots of amps...
>>
>
> There are differing opinions on this, but in my experience around two
> vehicles that use the MR2 pump, it is indeed noisy. For the outside
> observer it will almost certainly be the loudest mechanical thing in
> your vehicle, at least until you get going and your transmission noise
> takes over. It'll almost certainly be louder than your vacuum pump.
> More important than how loud it is though, is how it sounds. It's a
> mid-high range plaintive whine, that dips in pitch in response to
> steering effort. Although it's part of the pump's normal operation, it
> sounds like it's struggling. And with the volume of the sound combined
> with the public's relative unfamiliarity with the sound
> characteristics of EVs, I think it makes the whole car sound like it's
> struggling. It's an unfortunate sound for the vehicle to make in my
> opinion. On the other hand, it does work well even on vehicles much
> larger than the tiny MR2, and it is a convenient solution to the power
> steering problem.
>
> A few months ago I was intrigued to learn that the Mazda 3 also has an
> electric power steering pump, so I bought a used one from a junkyard,
> which looks to be in great shape. It has an attached reservoir, and
> frankly looks a lot more attractive than the MR2 unit. I haven't
> gotten around to testing it however, and I'm not sure yet how to go
> about it as the electrical interface is not immediately intuitive.
> Need to check the OEM documentation...
>
> --chris
>
>
>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone.
I just spent quite a bit of time dissassembling and removing the entire car
from around the original heater core so I could replace it with a electric
ceramic unit.
What's the track record with these ceramic cores? Do they hold up well, fail
occsionally or (hopefully not) fail often?
Thanks,
Dana
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi James etc.
Thanks a bunch for your help. Craig the Warfield motor guru
(1-800-435-9346) said he thinks he can find a set of stiffer series wound
field coils for about $150. Rod has a SepEx control I'm going to try since
regen would be real nice on these steep mountain roads around here, so I
guess I have two options.
I also found the replacement brakes & bearings from Raybestos that Federated
Auto Parts (aka NAPA) recomended, they fit well (which is good since this
vehicle was discontinued when Cushman got assimilated by Textron).
I found a neat ceramic heater for $22 that works at various voltages over
the week-end to replace the existing heater core in the 72V Cushman. It's a
model HCH4163 Holmes available at NW hardware, Wal-Mart etc.. Taking it
apart revieled a 5 element ceramic heater with multiple parallel/series
combinations. It was originally designed to operate at 120V but paralleling
the 5 elements (connecting the two outer wires to the center one for one
side and connecting the two inner wires to the other side) made it operate
well at 72V (about 850W settled after 1 minute). Hooking the elements in
series made it operate above 120V for higher voltage systems. It's really a
versatile element but had to put some elephant snot (aka RTV) on the edges
of the plastic housing to keep the element contained after removing the
shaded pole motor fan. Anyway it's cheaper than the $125 some people want
for these heater cores. I'll wire the snubbed contactor & heater overtemp
bimetal link to the fan as usual for safety so it will only run with the
blower operating.
Have a renewable energy day,
Mark (will be signing off this Friday when changing jobs)
Mark E. Hanson
184 Vista Lane
Fincastle, VA 24090
mhanson at infionline.net
www.solectrol.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: Schaef Motor Sep_ex vs Series help
> At 09:14 AM 13/01/06 -0500, Mark wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I bought a 36V 15" x 6.7" Schaef motor part# 7600064 used on a Hyster
pump
> ><snip>
> >
> >I'm looking for a simple solution as I want to get this up and running as
> >quickly as possible. Warfield headquarters in ILL said they could rewind
> >the field for a series wound motor if all else fails, but since the
> >Cushman is direct drive, I need the starting torque.
>
> G'day Mark
>
> Are you mechanically minded & inclined enough to disassemble the motor,
> then take some photos and put them up somewhere? Be able to look at them
> and say for sure what the connections are. depending on what the
> connections are there could be a few alternatives. If there are two
> parallel fields you may be able to series them up and direct connect to
> 72V. Or if they are series already you could have the fields rewound to be
> two 72V circuits, put them in parallel for starting, then switch the
fields
> into series for speed? Your local (AC motor) shop would be able to do a
> shunt winding rewind.
>
> You may be able to unbolt the field poles, send just the windings to Jim
> Husted and he rewinds you a set of series windings?
>
> Lots of possibilities, depending on what's there.
>
> Regards
>
> James
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Too Bad that there are reports that Chinese cities are
banning electric bikes and scooters on the pretext that
they are creating a pollution problem with the batteries.
Actually it seems they want the appearance of being
cosmopolitian with lots of automobiles instead of third
world with bicycle traffic.
Doc Kennedy
On 1/16/06, Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Philippe an' All;
>
> Thanks for the link. With the charming letter from Thunder sky, glad
> they have "Made a great progress" over the last year.After all, we here
> are
> their test pilots, although the motorbike folks in China seem to be doing
> their share<g>!Tjhe " Complain for Fire" Issue....Hmmm? It seems to be a
> charging issue here?Seems like some sort of thermal shutoff would be a
> neccessity, using these things. The explosions? Well, ya can get decent
> explosions from Led Acids, too.How, what to these things actually DO,
> catch
> fire and BURN?Explode?Could be embarrasing in traffic<g>!
>
> I sure wish the Thunder Sky Folks the best of the New Year, that they can
> address these issues, soon enough. I would imagine they are working on it
> full bore as the Olympics in Bay Jing, they, the Chicom Govt. Wants EV's
> there to showcase to the World Chinese Tech?More Power to them!
>
> Seeya at BBB
>
> Bob " With honest and excelsior additude" LOVE it!<G>!Hey? Good
> name for a T Sky Racer the "Excelsior Additude"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 5:16 AM
> Subject: Thundersky astonishing wishes [long]
>
>
> > Hello all,
> > just to let you now about this informative message as posted by Mikechen
> in
> > TS Yahoo group:
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > A LETTER TO OUR CUSTOMERS ALL OVER THE WORLD
> > ---BY THUNDER-SKY IN THE EVE OF THE NEW YEAR
> >
> > Dear customers from all over the world:
> > Really appreciate for your sincere help at all times to Thunder-sky,
> > and because of your interests and demands, our company has made a
> > great progress from producing no more than 14 cells (700 ah)/day in a
> > small lab in 1998 to 88000 ah/day with various types now. It has come
> > into mass production and even the demands exceeds our supply, which
> > is really a great prospect. In the beginning of the New year, We do
> > believe that we can have a more beautiful future under your support!
> > Looking back into the past few years from our setting up in 1998,in
> > our 7 years' long and hard researching and developing road, there are
> > infinite emotions and words we want to share. Which made us feel the
> > most proud is that our Thunder-sky lithium batteries have been sold
> > from China to the remainder Asia, and then to America, Africa and the
> > Europe, and based on this trade relations, we therefore got the
> > chance to know more than 3000 customers from all of the world, and
> > have produced and sold out 310000 batteries (61630000 ah) in total
> > during these years, although a few of them also brought some
> > inconvenience and troubles to our customers in application field. We
> > now attach these 11 complaints during the past 7 years as below, with
> > honest and excelsior attitude, expecting your understanding. At the
> > same time, we also provide you our different kinds of lithium battery
> > with their safety performance and other index for your consideration.
> >
> > No.1:
> > Time: JUL,1999
> > Customer: Guangdong Shantou Zhaoyang Motorbike Ltd.
> > Battery type: TS-LCP6163A(50AH)
> > Qty: 14pcs(in series)
> > Use:Install in a motorbike as a drive power
> > Complain for:Fire
> > Cause:directly charge the battery pack by the positive/negative line
> > of an electric welding machine,caused short-circuit which leading to
> > fire.
> >
> > No.2:
> > Time:NOV,2000
> > Customer:Hubei Xiangfan Dongfeng Citroen Car Ltd.
> > Battery type: TS-LP8581A(100AH)
> > Qty:240pcs(in series/parallel)
> > Use:Install in a EV car which is imported from France as a drive power
> > Complain for:Fire when charging
> > Cause:The electric car has covered from 290 km(first charge) to 360 km
> > (the 51st charge),which in total is 5800 km.But at one time during
> > charging(with no body and no BMS to monitor it),some monomer cell has
> > been over-discharged and then continue to be overcharged with other
> > cells in series, which caused short-circuit and fire.
> >
> > No.3:
> > Time:MAR,2001
> > Customer:A EV Car Company of Shenzhen Baoan
> > Battery type:TS-LR10A(10AH)
> > Qty:10pcs(in series)
> > Use:Install in a electric bike as a drive power
> > Complain for:Fire when charging
> > Cause:The charger's manostat system was out of order,then lead the
> > battery overcharged and fire.
> >
> > No.4:
> > Time:JUL,2002
> > Customer:A EV Car Trade Company from Shanghai
> > Battery type:TS-LR10A(10AH)
> > Qty:5000pcs(10pcs in a series)
> > Use:Install in a electric bike as a drive power to sell
> > Complain for:Fire when charging(happened in one of their customer)
> > Cause:The charger was out of order,and there are no BMS,the over-
> > discharged cell continue to be overcharged with other cells in
> > series,then lead the overcharged battery short-circuit and fire.
> >
> > No.5:
> > Time:MAY,2002
> > Customer:Guangzhou Yangcheng Motorbike Ltd.
> > Battery type:TS-LR10A(10AH)
> > Qty:1800pcs(10pcs in a series)
> > Use:Make it as a batteryt pack of "36V/10AH",and matched with the
> > charger which made by Yangcheng,then installed in the electric bike
> > as a drive power to sell.
> > Complain for:Fire when charging(happened in one of their customer)
> > Cause:Charge the battery at home,and the charger was out of
> > order,with no BMS,the over-discharged cell continue to be overcharged
> > with other cells in series,then lead the overcharged battery short-
> > circuit and fire.
> >
> > No.6:
> > Time:JUN,2003
> > Customer:Kunshan Wanxiang EV Car company
> > Battery type:TS-8581A(100AH)
> > Qty:180pcs
> > Use:put cells in series/parallel by themselves,and charge them by 7
> > in series,no BMS,and then directly installed them into an EV Car.
> > Complain for:Fire during the first charging
> > Cause:No monitor system, continue to charge the over-discharged
> > battery with other cells in series,instead to exchange it in time,and
> > then the battery has been over-charged,which lead them short-circuit
> > and fire.
> >
> > No.7:
> > Time:OCT,2004
> > Customer:A korea EV Car developing company
> > Battery type:TS-8581A(100AH)
> > Qty:28pcs(14pcs in a series)
> > Use:used for a nautical instrument
> > Complain for:Fire when charging
> > Cause:When used them for two months,charge some already over-
> > discharged battery with no BMS to monitor,and then overcharged the
> > battery,which lead to short-circuit and fire.
> >
> > No.8:
> > Time:NOV,2004
> > Customer:American IC Company
> > Battery type:TS-9393A(200AH)
> > Qty:1700pcs(7pcs in series)
> > Use:used for a nautical power instrument, to get the physical data of
> > above 1000 meters under the sea
> > Complain for:Fume during charging
> > Cause:No protect device to the battery pack,some cells which were not
> > full charged has been over-discharged,then caused fire during the
> > continued charging. But for the battery pack were placed in a
> > nitrogen environment, but not in atmosphere, there are no visible
> > fire.
> >
> > No.9:
> > Time:APR,2005
> > Customer:Acoustic institute of the Science academe
> > Battery type:TS-LP9393A(200AH) and TS-LP6163A(50AH)
> > Qty:TS-LP9393A--14pcs;TS-LP6163A--10pcs
> > Use:used for a nautical instrument
> > Complain for:the 50AH battery caused fire when charging, which also
> > spread to the 200AH battery.
> > Cause:The cells were put in series, with no protecting device, after
> > the 50AH cell over-discharging to 0V,continue to charge it with other
> > cells in series,then overcharged them and caused short-circuit,which
> > also spread to the 200AH battery beside.
> >
> > No.10:
> > Time:AUG,2005
> > Customer:A research academe of Hungary
> > Battery type:TS-9393A(200AH)
> > Qty: 4 pcs
> > Use :For battery test
> > Complain for:One cell caused fire when charging
> > Cause:Made the cell in series battery pack,then do the charge-
> > discharge cycle test,when the 320st tests has been done,the
> > technologist were very excited and over-discharged one of the battery
> > to 0V,then continue to charge the battery pack with big current,
> > which made the OV battery short-circuit and fire.
> >
> > No.11:
> > Time:NOV,2005
> > Customer: Mechanic Institute of Xian Jiaotong University
> > Battery type:TS-9393A(200AH)
> > Qty:14pcs(7pcs in a series)
> > Use:used for a two-seats solar EV Car
> > Complain for:Fire when charging
> > Cause:There are no protective device for the cell, and they made the
> > charger which do not match to the cells and cannot charge the cell
> > consistently by themselves, during repeated run of the car,one of the
> > battery has been over-discharged, then continue to be charged at
> > night with no body monitoring, which lead the 0V cell overcharged and
> > then short-circuit and fire.
> >
> > >From our analysis to the above 11 accidents, we can see obviously
> > that they all caused by inside short-circuit by over-discharging the
> > battery and then continue to overcharge it. All these only caused
> > fire but no explosion, and all happened during the charging time but
> > not discharging, they are all "LP" batteries, that is the "LCP"
> > battery we named now. This kind of battery have no fire preventing
> > material in it, so when it is put in series, if one cell has been
> > over-discharged, and then continue to charge it with other cells in
> > series, it may make the battery pack cause fire.
> > We now introduce the safety performance of the "LCP","LMP","LFP"
> > three kinds of battery as below, and hope you can get a more clear
> > understanding about Thunder-sky batteries in the coming new year.
> >
> > "LCP":(No fire preventing)
> > Representative model:TS-LCP50AHA,TS-LCP90AHA,TS-LCP100AHA,TS-
> > LCP200AHA,TS-LCP500AHA,TS-LCP1000AHA
> > Safety index:
> > 1)for overcharge and over-discharge;(Fire but no explosion)
> > 2)for short-circuit;(Fire but no explosion)
> > 3)for puncture;(Fire but no explosion)
> > 4)for extrusion;(Fire but no explosion)
> > 5)for fire;(No explosion)
> > 6)for drench;(Fire but no explosion)
> >
> > "LMP":(No fire preventing)
> > Representative model:TS-LMP30AHA,TS-LMP50AHA,TS-LMP150AHA,TS-
> > LMP300AHA,TS-LMP500AHA,TS-LMP10000AHB
> > Safety index:
> > 1)for overcharge and over-discharge;(Fire but no explosion except the
> > battery which capacity is below 100AH)
> > 2)for short-circuit;(Fire but no explosion except the battery which
> > capacity is below 100AH)
> > 3)for puncture;(Fire but no explosion except the battery which
> > capacity is below 100AH)
> > 4)for extrusion;(Fire but no explosion except the battery which
> > capacity is below 100AH)
> > 5)for fire;(No explosion)
> > 6)for drench;(Fire but no explosion)
> >
> > "LFP":(Fire preventing)
> > Representative model:TS-LFP180AHA,TS-LFP300AHA,TS-LFP600AHA,TS-
> > LFP1000AHA,TS-LFP9000AHB,TS-LFP10000AHB,
> > Safety index:
> > 1)for overcharge and over-discharge;(No fire, no explosion)
> > 2)for short-circuit;(No fire, no explosion)
> > 3)for puncture;(No fire, no explosion)
> > 4)for extrusion;(No fire, no explosion)
> > 5)for fire;(No explosion)
> > 6)for drench;(No fire, no explosion)
> >
> > Thunder-sky battery has been named by people as "a kind of battery
> > which will never cause explosion"! And this has already been proved
> > in the last 7 years' application! But it's a truth that the "LCP"
> > and "LMP" battery can cause fire according to the "Six safety
> > standard". Whereas, it's still possible for us to solve this trouble,
> > that is installing a fitted and reliable "BMS"(battery manage system)
> > to the cell. We Thunder-sky will produce this "BMS" in large qty in
> > the new year, and help to install it when buying our battery. "LFP"
> > battery is a kind of fire preventing battery,you needn't to worry
> > that it will cause fire. Of course,no matter what kind of battery you
> > choose, we will give you our reliable service with our enthusiastic
> > attitude!
> > In the beginning of 2006,based on our existing technology and index
> > of the three kinds of battery: "LCP" "LMP" and "LFP", we Thunder-sky
> > will continue to research and develop more applicable lithium
> > batteries for our customers!
> >
> > Happy new year and Hope everything goes your way!
> >
> >
> > THUNDER-SKY BATTERY LIMITED
> >
> > IN THE EVE OF 2006
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >
> > Even if we can't now exactly what happenned, i feel confident than a
> company
> > which can say: "we had few fire on our cells and had analyzed with
> customers
> > the cause" can go now imho from my personal DEFCON 3 level to DEFCON 4
> :^)
> >
> > if you read this, keep the good job at TS !
> >
> > cordialement,
> > Philippe
> >
> > Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> > Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 15, 2006, at 10:36 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
AGMs have a *shorter* life than floodeds. When you consider that
they also
cost more, your cost per mile is 2x to 4x higher with AGMs. What
you get in
return is lower maintenance, no watering, and a cleaner battery box.
Hi Lee,
When you say AGMs have a shorter life than floodeds are you comparing
them to 6volt floodeds or all floodeds in general?
My old SCS225's didn't have all that much of a cycle life, especially
compared to their 6v counterparts, but they fit with the range I
needed and space available. I'm just wondering if the AGMs are equal
(or better?) when compared to 12v floodeds.
Also, didn't someone mention new Trojan 12v batteries that are using
the same plates as the 6v? Wouldn't that increase their cycle life?
What's the downside?
Thanks!
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The first TWO episodes of "This New Car" are now on-line at
http://www.bestrateofclimb.com/TNC
The episodes are 30 minutes each and almost all meat, very little fat compared
to most talk shows. Listen and see if you agree.
The entire schedule of 13 weeks ...
Available as MP3s ...
#1: Pros and Cons of Hybrid Vehicles
#2: Pros and Cons of Alternative-Energy Vehicles
Coming ...
#3 Hydrogen-combustion vehicles
#4 Fuel-cell vehicles
#5 Electric & plug-in vehicles
#6 New-technology vehicles
#7 What makes a hybrid a hybrid?
#8 Saving fuel with computers
#9 Detroit: Can the Motor City be hybrid-ized?
#10 "Green" vehicles: What are they and does the average consumer really care?
#11 What can we with the cars we're now driving to become cleaner?
#12 Is government doing enough to back "green" vehicles?
#13 Does everyone need to own a vehicle?
Hear "This New Car," a special 13-week edition of The Business Beat, on
WICN/90.5 FM and at WICN.org in Worcester, MA, the NPR affiliate serving
Central New England. The experts for this lively, informative discussion on
hybrid and alternative-fuel vehicles are Jim Dunn of the NASA Center for
Technology Commercialization in Westboro, MA, Gilles Labelle of the Hybrid
Center of Massachusetts at Westboro Toyota in Westboro, MA, and Craig Van
Batenburg of the Automotive Career Development Center in Worcester, MA. "This
New Car" is hosted by Steven Jones-D'Agostino of Best Rate Of Climb in
Worcester, MA, and sponsored exclusively by Westboro Toyota.
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mine's going on 2 winters in this rig; the last one
lasted 4 yrs. and was doing fine when I sold it.
PIcture the hot-wire element in your toaster.
Considering we usually have to pull the dashboad on
our rigs, we expect to have them last indefinitely!
(;-p
In 6 years of subscribing to the EVDL, I'd never heard
of a post on heater core longevity, which is why I
pulled your send down. There are no electronics
(silicon) on it to fail, if that helps...
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi everyone.
>
> I just spent quite a bit of time dissassembling and
> removing the entire car from around the original
> heater core so I could replace it with a electric
> ceramic unit.
>
> What's the track record with these ceramic cores? Do
> they hold up well, fail occsionally or (hopefully
> not) fail often?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dana
>
>
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The core in my civic has been working for 8+ years (3.5 with me) and
still working fine. It was 21 F here in Colorado this morning and the
single core heater kept the cabin at 55F.
Lynn Adams
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Bath
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Longevity of ceramic heater core
Mine's going on 2 winters in this rig; the last one lasted 4 yrs. and
was doing fine when I sold it.
PIcture the hot-wire element in your toaster.
Considering we usually have to pull the dashboad on our rigs, we expect
to have them last indefinitely!
(;-p
In 6 years of subscribing to the EVDL, I'd never heard of a post on
heater core longevity, which is why I pulled your send down. There are
no electronics
(silicon) on it to fail, if that helps...
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi everyone.
>
> I just spent quite a bit of time dissassembling and removing the
> entire car from around the original heater core so I could replace it
> with a electric ceramic unit.
>
> What's the track record with these ceramic cores? Do they hold up
> well, fail occsionally or (hopefully
> not) fail often?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dana
>
>
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
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'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
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--- Begin Message ---
I think I got you beat. Minds been going for 20 years since 1985. This type
is a Phillips that has large 3/16 inch diameter wire that is coil in 1.5 inch
diameter for 6 inches long. The material looks like the elements in a stove top.
I do not know what material this is.
It has several settings from Bake to Broil, I mean Low, Medium Low, Medium,
Medium High and High. At high it will roast you out.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Bath<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Longevity of ceramic heater core
Mine's going on 2 winters in this rig; the last one
lasted 4 yrs. and was doing fine when I sold it.
PIcture the hot-wire element in your toaster.
Considering we usually have to pull the dashboad on
our rigs, we expect to have them last indefinitely!
(;-p
In 6 years of subscribing to the EVDL, I'd never heard
of a post on heater core longevity, which is why I
pulled your send down. There are no electronics
(silicon) on it to fail, if that helps...
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi everyone.
>
> I just spent quite a bit of time dissassembling and
> removing the entire car from around the original
> heater core so I could replace it with a electric
> ceramic unit.
>
> What's the track record with these ceramic cores? Do
> they hold up well, fail occsionally or (hopefully
> not) fail often?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dana
>
>
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html<http://www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html>
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- Begin Message ---
Forwarded from the SFEVA. Please reply to Ray in Bcc.
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:23:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Ray Levinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Milestone achieved but help needed.
I just hit 30,000 miles on my 2000 Ranger EV NiMH last month and
everything seemed fine. I was looking forward to my six-year anniversary of
zero emission driving in February when the follwing happened:
I was driving home from work during a storm earlier this month,and had
lights and wipers on, going uphill. I had at least 50% range left when my
state of charge meter droppped to zero, and the folowing indicator lights
came on: wrench, low fuel, and power limit. The odd thing is that I was
able to limp home another 6 or 7 miles under therse conditions with no
serious loss of power.
I charged that night and had a full charge in th e morning, but
essentially the same thing happened, right around the 50% charge level. I
had been getting a comfortable range of about 45 miles for the last year or
so, compared to about 55 miles when I first got it. There have been no
other symptions of range loss or other malfunctions either lately,
Today I drove it after a full charge, and it dropped to zero after only 8
miles, Luckily, I was able to drive another 8 miles to the SSF Costco, and
got an hour and a half charge, which got me home OK. This time after the
Costco charge, the wrench indicator lamp stayed on the whole trip, but no
other lights or incidents occurred.
I guess I will take it to S&C Ford this week for a diagnostic check, but
was wondering if these symptioms sounded familiar to any EV dirvers,
particularly Ranger drivers.
My fear is a bad battery cell or two, and wanted to have some questions to
ask S&C if I get there. Does a bad cell mean the end of the EV road? Does
Battery MD provide replacement cells or battery packs? Is this really the
end?
Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated.
Ray Levinson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 16 Jan 2006 at 0:36, Mike & Paula Willmon wrote:
> This is kinda electrochemisty because the sealed
> batteries are what they call "starved electrolyte" cells, meaning the total
> volume of acid is less. :-O
Hmm, that wasn't my understanding of starved electrolyte.
The term has been explained to me as meaning that the electrolyte
^concentration^ (SG), not the ^volume^ of electrolyte, is lower. Thus
during discharge the electrolyte loses its "potency" before the electrodes
(grids) can become overdischarged. This protects the electrodes and extends
their lives, but limits total capacity. Perhaps that's what you meant?
As for the cold argument, I can't say it doesn't, but I don't understand why
capillary action would help diffusion through a liquid. Maybe Nawaz is
listening and can speak to this claim that AGM batteries hold capacity
better in cold temperatures.
Again, I apologize for my ignorance in these matters. Shoulda taken more
physics and chemistry in college!
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 16 Jan 2006 at 10:29, Mark Hanson wrote:
> Anyway it's cheaper than the $125 some people want for these
> heater cores.
I didn't know any of them were that expensive. I recall that the ones Randy
Holmquist sells cost more than $22, but they're made in Germany instead of
China. At least the ones I got were.
I figure that in most conversions it's such a pain to get to the heater
cores that I'd prefer the highest quality I can find, in the hopes that I
won't have to do THAT job again. My time and labor is worth more than the
difference in parts cost. Your mileage may vary.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 16 Jan 2006 at 1:41, mike golub wrote:
> (Not sure if there's a trickle charger mode on any of
> the chargers?)
Yeah, on many of them. Regrettably, quite a few chargers don't shut off.
Overcharging is NOT good for batteries. It's less harmful to flooded
batteries than to VRR (gel/AGM) because you can replenish the water lost.
If you need to keep the battery warm, heaters and insulation are a better
approach than constant overcharging.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
100 amp battery tester. 19 bucks 24v 50 amp switch. 5 bucks Vacuum pump with
no moving parts. 15 bucks The last is used to purge airconditioning systems.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cuts 16 gauge. 20 bucks. Might be the right tool to cut out the back of a
VW Rabbit for conversion.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As for the cold argument, I can't say it doesn't, but I don't understand why
capillary action would help diffusion through a liquid. Maybe Nawaz is
listening and can speak to this claim that AGM batteries hold capacity
better in cold temperatures.
From my personal experience, my range on AGMs drops about 40% during
the winter when the temps are below 40 or so F.
However the power is still there. I can still pull 150a out of my 52ah
pack without dropping to 11 volts per battery. However once I hit about
20ah out of the pack, I would be dropping into the 10.66 volts per
battery at 100 amp draw (my lower limit)
Capacity will come back in the spring, and I'll be back up to 30 miles
range. Speaking of which, this will be my third year on this pack, so I
think I'm getting better.
CZ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All four showings sold out during presales, so I was not able to get
a ticket online this morning. :(
You can show up at the theatre a couple hours early, and try to get
standby tickets if there are no-shows. I'll be doing this. Wish me
luck!
Here is some film info from the Sundance web page:
WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR?
U.S.A., 2005, 90 Minutes, color
Director:
Chris Paine
Screenwriter:
Chris Paine
<http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com>
Fashioned like a tongue-in-cheek murder mystery, Who Killed the
Electric Car? sets out to uncover just who is responsible for the
demise of this ill-fated vehicle. The spirited film runs through the
prime suspects, including car companies, oil companies, the
government, and consumers. Beginning in the early nineties, under
pressure from the California Air Resource Board, car manufacturers
were forced to develop nonpolluting vehicles. GM made the first car,
the EV-1, available for lease in the midnineties. After less than 10
years, citing lack of interest by the public, the automaker took the
vehicle off the market and officially discontinued the project.
Government policy was rescinded, and currently, GM and other
automakers are crushing all remaining electric vehicles. Filmmaker
Chris Paine follows electric car activists who are desperately trying
to save the few remaining cars from being destroyed and hoping to
change policy. A very timely subject, Who Killed the Electric Car?
serves as a potent reminder that the powers that be will stop at
nothing to maintain their position in the world. The film is an
informative and thoroughly entertaining journey into the world of
environmentally conscious technology and the cars that may one day be
here... again. Lisa Viola
Executive Producers : Dean Devlin, Richard D. Titus, Tavin Marin
Titus
Producer : Jessie Deeter
Coproducer : Kathy Weiss
Associate Producers : Natalie Artin, Jeff Steele
Cinematographer : Thaddeus Wadleigh
Editor : Michael Kovalenko
www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/
Screening Times
Mon, Jan 23 8:30 PM Library Center Theatre
Tue, Jan 24 8:30 AM Prospector Square Theatre
Thu, Jan 26 12:00 PM Egyptian Theatre, Park City
Sat, Jan 28 3:00 PM Broadway Centre Cinemas IV, SLC
Director(s) Bios
Chris Paine
Who Killed the Electric Car? is Chris Paine's first feature
documentary as director. His documentary producing experience
includes Mark Neale's Faster and William Gibson: No Maps for These
Territories. Paine's directing experience includes the MTV/Initial
television series Buzz, and he also coproduced Mailman, which
premiered at the 1996 Sundance Film Festival. In the early 1990s, he
assisted on the feature films The Player and The New Age. Paine is
the founder of the pioneering online service firm Internet
Outfitters. He is a recovering fossil-fuel addict.
Film Contact
Tavin Marin Titus
Plinyminor
8391 Beverly Blvd., #453
Los Angeles, CA 90048
(310) 285-0803
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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From: Matt
> I am told that a flooded cell does not need a BMS. But, would it benefit
> from one if one is added? Getting 6 months to a year more out of a pack
> would make it cost effective.
A BMS does several things.
First, it *monitors* what your individual batteries are doing. If you pay
attention
to this information, it can keep you from murdering your batteries from abuse
and neglect. Without a BMS, all you know is what the pack as a whole is doing
(assuming you even have meters, and know how to interpret them).
Second, a BMS tries to *correct* any problems on an individual battery battery
basis. This slows the natural tendency for the batteries to "drift apart" in
state
of charge and capacity. Without a BMS, you have to do this individual balancing
manually; otherwise the weak link "breaks".
Any battery pack will benefit from adding a BMS; flooded or sealed, lead-acid
or any other chemistry. The batteries will last longer, and deliver more
capacity.
If you only take "average" care of your pack, I'd say a BMS will roughly double
your pack's life. But, the BMS adds cost; $1000 or so. So, it boils down to how
many packs it takes to pay for itself.
Suppose your EV uses a $500 pack of floodeds, and you get 10k miles out of
each pack. Then 4 packs cost 4 x $500 = $2000 and last 40k miles. Now add a
$1000 BMS so each pack now gets 20k miles. Cost is (2 x $500) +$1000 = $2000
for the same 40k miles. So your break-even point doesn't occur until you've
driven
over 40k miles and need your 5th pack. Most people don't plan that far ahead.
But suppose your EV uses a $1000 set of AGMs. Without a BMS, you may only
get 5k miles per pack. Then 2 packs cost 2 x $1000 = $2000 and last 10k miles.
Now add a $1000 BMS so each pack lasts 10k miles. Cost is (1 x $1000) + $1000
= $2000 for the same 10k miles. Your break-even point is at just 10k miles and
your 3rd pack.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any opinions on this approach ?
http://www.california.com/~eagle/figs/vacpump/vac.html
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> 100 amp battery tester. 19 bucks 24v 50 amp switch. 5 bucks Vacuum
pump with
> no moving parts. 15 bucks The last is used to purge
airconditioning systems.
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> 415-821-3519
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is some good discussion on this archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg03781.html>
I liked this paragraph from Rich Rudman:
Ok here's the way I take the Kostov 11 incher. I have one in the
Fiero. With the Raptor in it the Comm "sings" at about 800 motor
amps, and about 5000 rpm. I take this to be insipent arcs. READ NOT
good but not leathal. This is with 156 volts. Brush wear is un known.
I havn't taken it apart.
So with interpoles, stay below 800 amps. Wayland had 336+VDC
on his and 1400 motor amps. With interpoles you have to stay close to
the design limit or the timing correct efforts become moot, and
damage results. What helps at 400 amps hurts at over some given
point, I say that is 800 amps. My guess would be the motor is good
and safe at under 800 amps and up to 288 to 312 volts. Note that both
numbers are about 2x the expected design levels. AND not anymore.
The improvemnts done by Warp, add mechanical robustness, but
NOT electrical. The fields and the comm and the interpole setups are
the same, so you have the same arc limits, but a much higher RPM
withstand ability. Your brushes will handle more amps, but, may not
reduce the 800 amp arcing point at all. So... What do you want your
motor to do??? Spin like heck??? OK, you Want to stuff 2000 amps into
it, better keep your rpm down.
There are other issues, but they may not come into play. I
would love to dyno a Warp motor and see the effective improvments.
Since they are cheaper that AvDC right out of the box.... I would
head in this direction for serious racing and abuse.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone has specs on
> the Kostov motors? (including a good URL? :-)
> I don't even know if it is AC or DC.
> (or do they make both?)
>
> The links I found in the archive are stale.
>
> Thanks
> Seth
> (Or did they make such a good motor they
> put themselves out of business? :-)
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