EV Digest 5101
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Battery Beach Burnout and , Who an' Where?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Battery Beach Burnout
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery Beach Burnout and , Who an' Where?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Joule Injected race day (Part 2)
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Bad floodies??
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Bad floodies??
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Battery Beach Burnout
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: What are the Specifications of the BB600?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Solar/battery setup, recommended electronics?
by Marc Breitman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: charge 2 cars at once?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Used AGM batteries
by "Sean Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Used AGM batteries
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: charge 2 cars at once?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) chevy astro conversion?
by lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Gliders
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) C&D AGM-25 -48V dc Rectifiers Cheap
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Magnet isolation?
by "England Nathan-r25543" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Joule Injected race day (Part 2)
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: C&D AGM-25 -48V dc Rectifiers Cheap
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Used AGM batteries
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message --- However that being said aren't some of these cells a hundred years old and still working at full capacity? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:11 AM Subject: Re: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?Mark Freidberg wrote:Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?Yes, while charging. Quite a lot, actually. Excessive gassing and high waterusage was a shortcoming of the nickel-iron (Edison) cell. -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message --- I'm going , plan is to tow the race truck with my work truck , got 65 miles to my first charge , I'm thinking of running the pfc 50 off the race truck pack and have it help on the drive down . I have a friend down there that I'll be staying with , so can't help you there. Got my 2k today , not much time for testing .steve clunn with 40 golfers in my work truck----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:31 AM Subject: Battery Beach Burnout and , Who an' Where?Hi EVerybody; Whose going to BBB? Just curious, like where will folks be staying?Would imagine there are cheepo motels around in West Palm?Will be Jet Bluing in Fri. Seeya? Bob
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--- Begin Message --- Am I going to need a light that can be seen for out side that shows the car/truc is on ? I though I read somthing about that awhile ago . I have a emergy disconect that can be used from inside and on that can be worked from the out side . all batteries and bolted down . seat belts work . Am I ready :-) ?steve clunn----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 6:36 PM Subject: Battery Beach Burnout and ShirtsHi Everyone, I wanted to give everyone a quick update on the race and let everyone know about the T-shirts for the race. The race is coming together nicely, thanks to hard work and help of Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons. We are on track for all of the events and look like we should have pretty close to 15 competitors there at the races.I would like to thank our sponsors for all of their help and support for theevent. Without them, we would not have made it this far and been able to organize a 2 day event the first year. Please check out our sponsor's page on the website (http://www.batterybeach.com/sponsors.html) and support the businesses that support our sport! The new T-shirts for the race and event will ready for this weekend. If anyone is interested in a T-Shirt from the event, but can not attend, they will be available for mail order. T-Shirts will be available at the trackfor $20 (all sizes). The price is a little higher than we had hoped, but thelow volume of shirts for the order and the need to raise additional monies to cover the cost of equipment and track fees has set the price there. Please show your support and purchase a shirt! Mail orders for the shirts can be sent to: EV Promotions 6542 Hypoluxo Rd Suite 101 Lake Worth, FL 33467 Mail order is $20 per shirt, plus $4 priority shipping. (Please make checks payable to EV Promotions) Thanks and see you at the track! Shawn Waggoner www.batterybeach.com
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--- Begin Message ---Roland noted that Edison Batteries emit no hydrogen on charge/discharge: "On discharge oxygen is transferred from the positive (nickel) to the negative (iron) plates, Its serves merely as a carrier of oxygen between the plates. On charge the transfer is in the opposite direction. Therefore there is no hydrogen release." Meanwhile Lee asserts: "Yes, while charging. Quite a lot, actually. Excessive gassing and high water usage was a shortcoming of the nickel-iron (Edison) cell." So...which is it and where's the evidence? -Myles
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--- Begin Message -------- Original Message ----- From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:18 PM Subject: Re: Battery Beach Burnout and , Who an' Where? > hi bob > I had intended to come even had a ticket but hurt my > knee to the point of surgery so will not be able to > make it. please get lots of pictures of the freedom > and anything else you think might interest me and send > them to me if you would.. I will be glad to re emburse > you > thanks keith > Hi Keith; Bummer! Ouch! I felt twinges of that up here!Well, I'll take a buncha pix fior you an' all.Plan on Joliet Ill, the RT 66 Dragway, in the spring?I'll give ya a shout on the fone from trackside and Freedom's Rollout. Seeya Bob > --- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hi EVerybody; > > > > Whose going to BBB? Just curious, like where will > > folks be staying?Would > > imagine there are cheepo motels around in West > > Palm?Will be Jet Bluing in > > Fri. > > > > Seeya? > > > > Bob > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >
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--- Begin Message --- Great posts Matt. It appears you are giving JW a run at narrative posting. I really enjoyed reading your story. I had originally planned on coming to BBB but life situations prevented it. I wish you all a very successful race day and I'm really looking forward to another entry in the 100 mph club. It is this kind of performance that gains the attention of the general public. Way to go Matt !!!Roderick Wilde NEDRA President----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:02 PM Subject: Joule Injected race day (Part 2). . .continued from Part 1. . .I pull into the lane behind several other cars and it seems like an eternitybefore I'm number one in line. I start the data acquisition on the laptopand then proceed to do everything wrong with the burnout. Dennis, avert youreyes! There's no line lock and the little 240SX front brakes are not up to the task of holding back both of the drag radials; I'm out of the bleach box, and to top it off, the Zilla is trying to shift into parallel during the burnout. Note to self: set option J next time! Okay, bag the burnout, pull up and stage. Set the G-Tech Pro meter. . .wait. . .wait. . .launch!1200 amps is not enough to break the tires loose so the car hurtles forward! Then. . .it quits pulling! Nothing at all for a full second or two. Foot off the accelerator, then back on it. The car pulls hard again. Then stops. This run's a bust. Back around the return lane, I wave off the timing shack guy.He appropriately drops my timeslip into the garbage can.Back to the pits, we look over the error codes. "1213: Motor contactors didnot turn on". Why? Bad contactor? Bad auxiliary contact? Compounding this was the ominous code, "Major overspeed either motor beyond redline by X". The high RPM limit was set conservatively and the car was driving aroundfine after the run, so it's got to be an overspeed just on the burnout, but not bad enough to cause (obvious) damage. The S/P contactor looks fine. Theaux. contacts test out okay. I recall that one of the auxiliary contactsdidn't quite engage when I originally installed them. I expanded the springa little at that time to positively switch the contact when the contactor was engaged. Could that be the problem? Since the car seems to be operating properly, Shawn, Lowell and I figure another run is in order to try to nail down what might be intermittently occurring. So, shut down and unplug the charger, back to the lanes, aroundthe bleach box, start DAQ, stage and launch. No intermittent behavior here:exactly the same situation except this time I stay on the accelerator tomake analyzing the data easier. It seems like two or three seconds of lurch in between lunges. Back to the pits to review error codes and run data. Same motor contactor error and sure enough, there's about two or three seconds ofinaction while the Zilla's trying to shift into parallel. Shawn and Lowell are hovering over the S/P contactor while I work the switches from inside. Main contactor. . .<click!>. . .ON. . .Forward contactor. . .<click!>. . .ON. . .parallel contactor. . .<click!>. . .but Shawn reports nothing at the auxiliary contact! Now Lowell notices that theres a small gap between the parallel contacts. Turns out it's the S/P contactor after all! Seems like there's something impeding the movement of the contacts. After a little fiddling with it, it snaps into place!Repeating the test procedure multiple times gives consistently good results!The car's been unplugged during the whole test process, so the batteries arein bad shape. Only 307V on the pack! Just as the little 3600 W generatorgets going with about 5 amps into the pack, Lowell reports that the track isclearing out. Sure enough, only another ten minutes or so until they close it all down. One last chance to see if a solid run can be turned in. . . Last week I wrote: "I'm going to try to take it easy on the driveline at the track this Sunday. Most likely, I'll keep it under 1200 motor amps in series mode. Then the following weekend at Battery Beach Burnout I'll bump up the amps a little at a time. On the later runs we'll see just what warm batteries, higher amps, super wide and sticky BF Goodrich drag radials, and a limited slip differential will do to shave some time off December's run!" Okay, so I didn't exactly stick to the plan and took it up to 1300 amps on the last run. Unfortunately, I would be running a tired battery pack andcold tires, too (I didn't want to use up any more of the pack on a burnout).Also not part of the plan! But at this point, I wanted to regain a littledignity and get data for a complete run, even if it turned out to be a 15 or16 second run. I pulled right in and around the bleach box, started DAQ, staged and launched. The tires bit hard, the contactors and parallel shift workedflawlessly and the car pulled hard all the way down the track. It felt good! But it didn't turn out exactly as I expected. Instead of a high 15 or low 16second run, the car ran a 13.607 at 98.39 mph! It was an incredible finish to an otherwise bad day at the race track. Butthen again, this day was meant for testing, and I really feel great about usbeing able to work through and figure out the problem. Strange but true:"Happiness is an error code" when it comes to debugging curious EV behavior!Thanks Otmar!Thanks also go out to the pit crew, Shawn and Lowell. Aside from identifying the exact problem, it's a lot of time and effort to load up, haul the car toand from the track, and keep the process running smoothly. Unfortunately,Lowell wasn't able to finish up his Porsche in time to take it to the track,but I know he's hard at work on it right now, preparing for the race. I've got a back-up S/P contactor ready to go for Battery Beach Burnout, sowith a little luck and a fully charged pack we should see another EV in the100 mph club this Friday! Hope to see you there! Matt Graham 300V "Joule Injected" Nissan http://www.jouleinjected.com <http://www.jouleinjected.com> Hobe Sound, FL -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.19/231 - Release Date: 1/16/2006-- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.19/231 - Release Date: 1/16/2006
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--- Begin Message --->>so you don't notice the loss as much when cold if you stay over 50% SOC. But once you get below about 50% SOC with either type, they just won't let you drive when they are cold. **If the capacity loss (in cold temps) in an AGM or Gel is not noticed as much compared to a wet cell if you stay over 50% SOC then it should be a measurable effect. I agree that once you get past 50% time seems to compress and you really start losing, no matter what kind of battery you have. For my conversion I'm planning to try to keep the pack at 50% SOC or greater to save the cycles. >>The freezing point is no different for floodeds, gels, or AGMs. **I wasn't so much referring to the resistance to freezing as the effect on the battery IF they froze. If you freeze an open battery its sulfate city. The cell may or may not take a charge again and if it does its cycle life will be extremely short. A sealed battery with uniform electrolyte concentration always in contact with the plates will not sulfate as much and will recover much more readily. Although freezing any lead acid battery kills cycles, it does more so in the flooded type. >>Gels and AGMs tend to stay charged longer (lower self-discharge rates). What you may be seeing is that floodeds run dead from sitting, and *then* freeze; while the gels or AGMs maintained enough charge to keep them from freezing. **I don't disagree with you here. Although I was speaking more to Mike up in Fairbanks where temps can reach the point of freezing a fully charged battery, and can continuously remain in the range to freeze an 80% SOC battery. Again to emphasize not so much the resistance to freezing but the affects on the life of the battery when it gets that cold. I asked him if he planned to run year round. Someone stated to him (maybe it was you, I'd have to read back) that it would be better to heat and insulate rather than trickle charge through the cold. I agree fully here too. And since you live where it gets cold too, do you insulate your batteries? If so do you have any problems keeping them cool in the summer? I was thinking of a removable insulated cover for the batteries in the back of my truck. Another guy here in Anchorage talked me into putting them in the bed and not bother trying to insulate them under the truck. I believe I'l take this advice. Mike
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--- Begin Message --->>These are characteristics of specific batteries, not of sealed vs. flooded batteries in general. **OK after reading and taking your points I'll take back the vague generalization about the CA and CCA ratings between the batteries. Its true those are dependant upon physical features of the plates. However the other three are still valid distinctions because of the sealed and recombinant nature of Gels and AGM's. >>How well a battery "comes back" after a deep discharge is a function of plate construction. **Not solely. Sulfate due to cycling builds up less in the sealed batteries. So much so that many manufacturers tell you not to equalize your AGM's or Gels or at least not do it as as often. This is the primary reason for both the "starved electrolyte" and immobilizing substrate in the electrolyte. Its true you can boil off much of the sulfate in a flooded cell as often as you like and still maintain your capacity, but you give up cycle life by doing this. Mike
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--- Begin Message ---It was good to hear that Matt worked out some Gremlins before the event so lets all hope for some fast slips for him this Friday. Sounds as if the hard work will show more fruit with a new 100 MPH member this weekend. Maybe even give Wayland a run for his money by Joliet??Yeah. That's really good news. I read that there were about 15 competitors announced so far. That is really fantastic! I sure wish I could make it. I'll have to settle for Chip's play by play like every one else. 8^)Also, let me remind those who are still on the fence about attending that we have two new street classes and two new voltage divisions in NEDRA and that means a lot of new records waiting to be set. One of the most exciting opportunities lies in the new Street Conversion "daily driver" class. Never before have daily drivers had a protected class to compete in. Now they will be able to race against their peers instead of being stacked up against the "pro-street" racing teams.We added two new voltage classes on the high end so that all the new higher voltage machines are not lumped together. The technology is advancing and we are trying to be responsive to the vehicles that are showing up at the events as well as planning for the vehicles we expect to show up in the future.The Battery Beach Burnout is the first opportunity for these new classes to be utilized and the new records to be set. Good luck to all the competitors!To review the new class descriptions, check out the relevant NEDRA page:http://nedra.com/class_rules.html -Ken Trough Public Relations Director, NEDRA
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--- Begin Message ---You're a little high. Each cell weighs approx. 3.4 pounds.From: john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: What are the Specifications of the BB600? Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:53:35 -0800 (PST)I'm looking for the specifications of the BB600 nicad battery, mostly concerned with the weight. I am judging that each cell will weigh 4 pounds, as im calculating weight for a go kart that is in construction. Does anyone have a accurate figure on the weight of these cells? Thanks for any info.--------------------------------- Yahoo! PhotosRing in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
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--- Begin Message ---Very helpful Roger, yes I have bought whatever gears I can to make the highest possible rpm with the slowest possible wheel turn. Since there are multiple gears, I can switch if necessary. Yes i am using the alltrax (btw, viewing this listserv is GREAT on gmail because you can see all the posts by the authors, and the "original post" never gets lost). ~Marc
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--- Begin Message ---My car has had two parallel strings in it and it charges just fine. Charging flooded batteries in parallel is an acceptable but not optimal practice. The two packs must have the same chemistry and the same number of cells. Capacity is not required to be the same on both strings, but the cells in each series string must be the same. Joe Smalley Rural Kitsap County WA Fiesta 48 volts NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:14 PM Subject: charge 2 cars at once? > Has anyone charged two cars at one time off the same > charger? My charger can handle 50 A continuous but I > was wondering if anyone has charged two strings of > (25) T125 trojans in parallel. will one string tend > to get lazy or will everything be just peachy? I have > charged smaller parallel packs but never strings this > long. > Any info is appreciated. > Jimmy >
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--- Begin Message --- I recently stumbled upon an auction on ebay for some used AGM batteries: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6029977993So, there are a couple questions: 1) Is this worthwhile? Are 2 or 3 year old AGMs that were in float duty that "used"? 2) I'm considering these as a good alternative for a testing pack - not too expensive, and I won't be out too much if I'm too hard on them. 3) What kind of peak current are these expected to be able to handle? I'm hoping for about 10C or maybe a little higher.So don't everybody go and buy all of them :) I hope to get 20 of them or so for a nice large pack. Maybe not the ideal battery for that kind of application as they're relatively heavy. A smaller capacity might be a better idea.Sean Taylor Urbana, IL
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--- Begin Message ---DO NOT TOUCH.Found the model number on those and did research awhile ago (they've been on eBay forever). The mfg never designed them for deep cycle use, only long term standby. They were only rated for a handful of 80% DOD cycles. Weird but the mfg was very clear on this.Danny Sean Taylor wrote:I recently stumbled upon an auction on ebay for some used AGM batteries: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6029977993So, there are a couple questions: 1) Is this worthwhile? Are 2 or 3 year old AGMs that were in float duty that "used"? 2) I'm considering these as a good alternative for a testing pack - not too expensive, and I won't be out too much if I'm too hard on them. 3) What kind of peak current are these expected to be able to handle? I'm hoping for about 10C or maybe a little higher.So don't everybody go and buy all of them :) I hope to get 20 of them or so for a nice large pack. Maybe not the ideal battery for that kind of application as they're relatively heavy. A smaller capacity might be a better idea.Sean Taylor Urbana, IL
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--- Begin Message ---On Jan 17, 2006, at 8:50 PM, Myles Twete wrote:So...which is it and where's the evidence?They gas like flooded NiCad batteries (and worse.) During charge the cell voltage exceeds the electrolysis voltage for the electrolyte. The proof is by checking the charge voltage (per cell) and the voltage required for the electrolysis of a water KoH solution. An alternative source for this information is available from <http://www.beutilityfree.com/batteryNiFe/battery_flyer.pdf>. It seems that this company is importing new NiFe batteries from China for home energy systems (not for EVs, like many NiFe batteries these things have severe voltage sag over 200 amps.) The PDF kinda reads like a battery salesman (efficiency is likely not as good as they claim, gassing is worse than they let on,...)NiFe batteries where used in EVs (early 20th century.) The sharp voltage sag under excess load could actually be useful when you where using a contactor controller (smoothing the power steps.) They have a reputation for very long life and great resistance to both charge and discharge abuse (I suppose controlled charging could be an issue in the early 20th century.)Paul "neon" G.
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--- Begin Message ---On Jan 17, 2006, at 10:33 PM, Joe Smalley wrote:My car has had two parallel strings in it and it charges just fine. Charging flooded batteries in parallel is an acceptable but not optimalpractice. The two packs must have the same chemistry and the same number ofcells. Capacity is not required to be the same on both strings, but the cells in each series string must be the same.I would point out that there is one other potential issue that rears its ugly head when you are talking about charging 2 cars (instead of 2 strings on one car.) As lead acid batteries age there is some change in their charge profile. End voltage tends to drop, end amps tend to rise. There could be end of charge issues depending on the age of the two packs.That said, I would not hesitate to bulk charge 2 packs of lead acid batteries of the same voltage together. Its only the finish charge that gives me concern.Paul
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--- Begin Message ---aloha, just wondering if anyone has ever converted a chevy astro van, or know of any reason why it would.wouldn't make a good candidate for an EV. i've got a couple with auto trannies, a 94, and 95. i'm thinking about converting one of them. i've been living off grid here in hawaii for a few years, and can install and maintain solar systems, but am less mechanically inclined, at least when it comes to engines, etc...i'm more of a nuts and bolts kinda guy, so i'm attracted to EV's for their simplicity and the thought that i could charge it up off our solar system. even with my experience with solar electric sytems, and general ICE mechanics, i'm new to this idea, and still learning the EV "language" and options. i've also got an older dodge ram 50 with a manual trans. 4x4 to play with. any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. there doesn't seem to be a big EV scene here, unless you count all the golf carts at the resorts. mahalo, lee parrish __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---Korea beat China --- Tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How about the Chevy Aveo? The list price is $9890. > A local Dealer in > LaCrosse WI said that recently they been going for > $7990. China can't > beat that! > Tim > > Aaron NMLUG-EV wrote: > > >On Wed, 2006-01-11 at 09:36, Bob Rice wrote: > > > > > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>To: <[email protected]> > >>Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:00 AM > >>Subject: Gliders > >> > >> > > > > > > > >>>Tonight on the NBC nightly news there will be a > piece about that new Chinese car that will sell for > under $10,000. Maybe that is a good place to > >>>start for a glider. > >>> > >>> > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---Arcin' deal on some C&D AGM-25 -48VDC Rectifiers. The the warehouse manager for the communications company I work for has been buggin' me to help get rid of old junk we do not use anymore and he's down to throwing stuff away. Last year he sent truck loads of older C&D 60A -48V rectifiers to the dump that were deinstalled from all our older satellite earth stations. What he didn't tell me though is that he also had 54 new in the box C&D AGM-25 -48VDC modular rectifiers. He didn't throw them away because they were new in the box. He figured he'd sell them to PICS Telcom or other salvage that re-sells recovered telco equipment. They told him for the price of shipping from Anchorage it wasn't worth taking them. (I'm not so sure I believe that) He's been stewing for the year because he can't sell them on e-bay because of a company policy. He can however sell them to anyone off the street. Rather than sell them individually 1 or 2 at a time he's looking to unload them in bulk for. I've already taken 6 for myself. I worked the deal for a Telco small out in the bush to buy 9 of them so there are 39 left. I forgot to mention why we aren't using them. Before I came to work here two of our small earth stations blew up because they didn't have H2 sensors in the battery compartment. They were just about to put these into 50 sites when this happened and realized that the newly required H2 sensors would not interface with the disconnects. So they've been on our shelves since 1998. The chassis' are C&D P/N 110-4025L-3A ( the -3A stands for List 3 for those looking up Specs) AGM 25 Full Feature Power Plant, -48V, up to 22.5 AMP, includes terminal block for load connections, battery connections, RFA alarm output, control inputs for HVSD, includes 8 GMT fuse positions load and battery shunts, tests jacks for plant voltage and current, microprocessor controller, low voltage disconnect in load leg, and battery temperature compensation. (1 ambient and 2 battery sensors) Each chassis takes three but these shipped with two each 7.5Amp rectifier modules p/n 100-7507-48XT HFM48AC7.5 rectifier 48V, 7.5 AMP (120/208/240 VAC Only). Fully populated these will put out 22.5A @ -60VDC. A manual and original manufacturer Test Data Sheets are included in the boxes. There's currently 3 for sale on E-Bay $750 for the chassis and $250 for each modules. You can check the specs listed there or also view them at http://www.battery-usa.com/C&D_Tech_Powercom_AGM25.htm He's told me anyone wanting the whole lot can have them at $250 for each box containing 1 Chassis and 2 Modules. Please contact me at my office at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike<<attachment: winmail.dat>>
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--- Begin Message ---I am just checking to see what other EV folks know, I was told that the bolts holding the shoes to the side of the motor case are supposed to be insulated from the motor case because it is a magnetic short from one shoe to another. I don't know enough to validate or disclaim this idea and no one else around me knows either. Thanks. Nathan
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--- Begin Message ---Matt; Great run! Keep plugging away. We'll see you in the 100MPH club Friday. Dennis Elsberry, MO -----Original Message----- From: Matthew D. Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:02 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Joule Injected race day (Part 2) . . .continued from Part 1. . . I pull into the lane behind several other cars and it seems like an eternity before I'm number one in line. I start the data acquisition on the laptop and then proceed to do everything wrong with the burnout. Dennis, avert your eyes! There's no line lock and the little 240SX front brakes are not up to the task of holding back both of the drag radials; I'm out of the bleach box, and to top it off, the Zilla is trying to shift into parallel during the burnout. Note to self: set option J next time! Okay, bag the burnout, pull up and stage. Set the G-Tech Pro meter. . .wait. . .wait. . .launch! 1200 amps is not enough to break the tires loose so the car hurtles forward! Then. . .it quits pulling! Nothing at all for a full second or two. Foot off the accelerator, then back on it. The car pulls hard again. Then stops. This run's a bust. Back around the return lane, I wave off the timing shack guy. He appropriately drops my timeslip into the garbage can. Back to the pits, we look over the error codes. "1213: Motor contactors did not turn on". Why? Bad contactor? Bad auxiliary contact? Compounding this was the ominous code, "Major overspeed either motor beyond redline by X". The high RPM limit was set conservatively and the car was driving around fine after the run, so it's got to be an overspeed just on the burnout, but not bad enough to cause (obvious) damage. The S/P contactor looks fine. The aux. contacts test out okay. I recall that one of the auxiliary contacts didn't quite engage when I originally installed them. I expanded the spring a little at that time to positively switch the contact when the contactor was engaged. Could that be the problem? Since the car seems to be operating properly, Shawn, Lowell and I figure another run is in order to try to nail down what might be intermittently occurring. So, shut down and unplug the charger, back to the lanes, around the bleach box, start DAQ, stage and launch. No intermittent behavior here: exactly the same situation except this time I stay on the accelerator to make analyzing the data easier. It seems like two or three seconds of lurch in between lunges. Back to the pits to review error codes and run data. Same motor contactor error and sure enough, there's about two or three seconds of inaction while the Zilla's trying to shift into parallel. Shawn and Lowell are hovering over the S/P contactor while I work the switches from inside. Main contactor. . .<click!>. . .ON. . .Forward contactor. . .<click!>. . .ON. . .parallel contactor. . .<click!>. . .but Shawn reports nothing at the auxiliary contact! Now Lowell notices that theres a small gap between the parallel contacts. Turns out it's the S/P contactor after all! Seems like there's something impeding the movement of the contacts. After a little fiddling with it, it snaps into place! Repeating the test procedure multiple times gives consistently good results! The car's been unplugged during the whole test process, so the batteries are in bad shape. Only 307V on the pack! Just as the little 3600 W generator gets going with about 5 amps into the pack, Lowell reports that the track is clearing out. Sure enough, only another ten minutes or so until they close it all down. One last chance to see if a solid run can be turned in. . . Last week I wrote: "I'm going to try to take it easy on the driveline at the track this Sunday. Most likely, I'll keep it under 1200 motor amps in series mode. Then the following weekend at Battery Beach Burnout I'll bump up the amps a little at a time. On the later runs we'll see just what warm batteries, higher amps, super wide and sticky BF Goodrich drag radials, and a limited slip differential will do to shave some time off December's run!" Okay, so I didn't exactly stick to the plan and took it up to 1300 amps on the last run. Unfortunately, I would be running a tired battery pack and cold tires, too (I didn't want to use up any more of the pack on a burnout). Also not part of the plan! But at this point, I wanted to regain a little dignity and get data for a complete run, even if it turned out to be a 15 or 16 second run. I pulled right in and around the bleach box, started DAQ, staged and launched. The tires bit hard, the contactors and parallel shift worked flawlessly and the car pulled hard all the way down the track. It felt good! But it didn't turn out exactly as I expected. Instead of a high 15 or low 16 second run, the car ran a 13.607 at 98.39 mph! It was an incredible finish to an otherwise bad day at the race track. But then again, this day was meant for testing, and I really feel great about us being able to work through and figure out the problem. Strange but true: "Happiness is an error code" when it comes to debugging curious EV behavior! Thanks Otmar! Thanks also go out to the pit crew, Shawn and Lowell. Aside from identifying the exact problem, it's a lot of time and effort to load up, haul the car to and from the track, and keep the process running smoothly. Unfortunately, Lowell wasn't able to finish up his Porsche in time to take it to the track, but I know he's hard at work on it right now, preparing for the race. I've got a back-up S/P contactor ready to go for Battery Beach Burnout, so with a little luck and a fully charged pack we should see another EV in the 100 mph club this Friday! Hope to see you there! Matt Graham 300V "Joule Injected" Nissan http://www.jouleinjected.com <http://www.jouleinjected.com> Hobe Sound, FL
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--- Begin Message ---Just to be clear, you seem to be talking about switch-mode telco PSUs here. I've used similar units before (48V, 45A), several in series for EV battery charging, obviously you should check the data sheet carefully before purchasing. These ones seem to be universal input and PFC, nice :) Regards Evan On 1/18/06, Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Arcin' deal on some C&D AGM-25 -48VDC Rectifiers. The the warehouse manager > for the communications company I work for has been buggin' me to help get > rid of old junk we do not use anymore and he's down to throwing stuff away. > Last year he sent truck loads of older C&D 60A -48V rectifiers to the dump > that were deinstalled from all our older satellite earth stations. What he > didn't tell me though is that he also had 54 new in the box C&D AGM-25 > -48VDC modular rectifiers.
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--- Begin Message --- We have a couple of local battery wholesalers handling batteries for large UPS systems. Several years ago, one contacted a chapter member and asked if we could make any use of used UPS batteries. Several of us went out and were allowed to sort through their pile of core batteries. We took home about 60 batteries, mostly Dynasty deep-cycle AGMs. One of our guys ran a double string of them in a Jet 007 for about two years, He did have more than a few failures, but just swapped them out with spares. He also had a large string of gell-cells as a UPS for his home. Not bad for free batteries. Unfortunately, the battery folks decided not to repeat that offer. The other shop I mentioned sells 'blems" which are actually just slightly used batteries. Apparently they setup temporary UPS systems for companies and then take them down after only a few months. The batteries from these temp systems sell for $20 to $30 each and usually have a date code of less than 6 to 8 months old. I ran them in my Civic EV for the last few years with a few failures, though I just replaced them all with new Dynasty AGMS. I think the used ones would have worked fine if I could only have gotten a single string of nearly identical ones. I always ended up with a mix of pure deep cycle series and high rate series or broadband series. They still would make great "training wheels". Why ruin a pack of new good batteries while getting your charging sorted out?Thanks, Mike Chancey, '88 Civic EV Kansas City, Missouri EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.htmlIn medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme position. (Horace)
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