EV Digest 5102
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Fw: Sep Ex - Is it really as bad as I make it out to be?
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Magnet isolation?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: What are the Specifications of the BB600?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?Questions
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: chevy astro conversion?
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Magnet isolation?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Stripped Terminal
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: C&D AGM-25 -48V dc Rectifiers Cheap
by MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Matt's closing in on 2nd place at Dragtimes.com
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Stripped Terminal
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Sep Ex - Is it really as bad as I make it out to be?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Sep Ex - Is it really as bad as I make it out to be?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Stripped Terminal
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re No Flames or Names
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Stripped Terminal
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Low cost in-line amp/voltmeter
by Marc Breitman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Ampabout ... On the road again
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Ampabout ... On the road again
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
Craig 1-800-435-9346 at Warfield said he is still looking for a series field
for me for about $125-150 so that might be an option. He also has a bunch of
other series motors new/used that might be of interest to others on the EVlist.
Why would a SepEx be 1/3rd, is that due to the limited current or wattage
(field strength)? I figure mine would be on acceleration 72V (at 1 ohm) x 72A
= field5184W in the field on a SepEx or on series 36V x 500A = field18000W. Oh,
I see, oh dear. I did have a Bombardier that had decent acceleration but maybe
not as much oomph as a series. I can send the EV-1 card since I won't use it,
you can have it for helping me.
This SepEx vs Series discussion might be interesting to others on the list that
are on the fence and can give some information from their experience on which
is better, regen is nice though. I guess life is full of tradeoffs.
Have a renewable energy day,
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Sep Ex - Is it really as bad as I make it out to be?
Yep. Mine is SepEx too. I never knew because I only put the 36 V on it as a
series motor, and it worked. Little did I know how the voltage was splitting
(because I never checked). Sure enough, at 36 V, it was almost 50 / 50 for the
field / arm. That means I was only getting about 15 A through the motor.
Again, no instrumentation and running at no load, how was I to know. I guess
we both got taken by the E-Bay guy.
I guess you never know until you see it.
Really though, I'd strongly advise against the SepEx. You could waste a lot
more money and get no acceleration at all. The startup torque is 1/3 on the
SepEx. With direct drive, I'm pretty sure you will have problems. If at all
possible, I think you should swap the fields.
In my case, I don't have that much in the motor. I'll probably just play
with it a little longer and then sell it for $50 or something like that.
I know I never got back to you on the EV-1 card. I assume you still have it.
I bought another controller that hasn't arrived yet. If it has a 48 V card on
it, I'll want to 84 V one. I should know within a few days. I really expected
to have it by today.
Depending on what you do with your motor, I you may also have an EV-100
available soon. I'd like to know the difference. Maybe I'd be interested in
that. But, I'm not sure right now.
Steve
In a message dated 1/17/2006 10:14:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL
PROTECTED] writes
:
FYI, Mark
Looks like yours might be a SepEx too. See if the field wires are smaller
than the arm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Nathan
This is untrue, and well actually just the opposite. I've been taught the
importance of making sure that the pole shoes make good contact with the
housing. Meaning not to paint or coat the inside areas where they meet the
housing. The screw contact is a mute point compared to the inner surfaces
being in contact with each other through the motors housing. Now if any two
copper components (windings, leads, etc.) touch (ground) any metal (pole shoes,
housing, aluminum plates, etc.) then you will have a short causing the motor to
work improperly or not at all.
Man I hope I don't have 25 years of warranties coming back 8^ )
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
England Nathan-r25543 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am just checking to see what other EV folks know, I was told that the
bolts holding the shoes to the side of the motor case are supposed to be
insulated from the motor case because it is a magnetic short from one
shoe to another. I don't know enough to validate or disclaim this idea
and no one else around me knows either.
Thanks.
Nathan
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have experimented with the chemical exchanges in these type of plate
structures. If you change the iron negative plate to a nickel plate where you
now have just nickel plates and using a electrolyte other than KOH (potassium
hydroxide), then apply a charge voltage of over 10 times the amount of the 1.5
volt cell voltage, it will just divide the H2O (water) into hydrogen and oxygen
gas at this time. There is no exchange of oxides in this form. IS NOW A FUEL
CELL. I have run a engine using this type of unit with about 50 sets of
negative and positive plates.
According to my battery handbook a NICKEL-IRON-ALKALINE CELL exchanges the
oxygen from the iron plate to the nickel plate. The liberation of oxygen
accounts for the gassing of a NICKEL-IRON-ALKALINE CELL during charge which
causes the bubbling you see in this type of Edison cell. The nickel plate forms
a higher oxide of nickel when charge and the iron forms a oxide of iron when
discharges.
They are other forms of Edison cells that may react differently. The
NICKEL-IRON-ALKALINE CELLS were the first type of Edison cells made.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Myles Twete<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:50 PM
Subject: RE: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
Roland noted that Edison Batteries emit no hydrogen on charge/discharge:
"On discharge oxygen is transferred from the positive (nickel) to the
negative (iron) plates, Its serves merely as a carrier of oxygen between
the plates. On charge the transfer is in the opposite direction. Therefore
there is no hydrogen release."
Meanwhile Lee asserts:
"Yes, while charging. Quite a lot, actually. Excessive gassing and high
water
usage was a shortcoming of the nickel-iron (Edison) cell."
So...which is it and where's the evidence?
-Myles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://stu.inonu.edu.tr/~zuhal/odev/BatteryFAQ.html#FeNi
http://stu.inonu.edu.tr/~zuhal/odev/BatteryFAQ.html#pb
If it evolves hydrogen on both charge and discharge, why doesn't it run
out of hydrogen? If it gets it from adding water, doest it need water
every charge cycle? or are they kept sealed with a large volume to hold
hydrogen.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops. Looks like the attachment problem isn't fixed. This was meant for
John Bart only. LR>.............
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: What are the Specifications of the BB600?
----- Original Message -----
From: "john bart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:53 PM
Subject: What are the Specifications of the BB600?
I'm looking for the specifications of the BB600 nicad battery, mostly
concerned with the weight. I am judging that each cell will weigh 4
pounds, as im calculating weight for a go kart that is in construction.
Does anyone have a accurate figure on the weight of these cells? Thanks
for any info.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
> I have experimented with the chemical exchanges in these type of plate
structures. If you change the iron negative plate to a nickel plate where
you now have just nickel plates and using a electrolyte other than KOH
(potassium hydroxide), then apply a charge voltage of over 10 times the
amount of the 1.5 volt cell voltage, it will just divide the H2O (water)
into hydrogen and oxygen gas at this time. There is no exchange of oxides in
this form. IS NOW A FUEL CELL. I have run a engine using this type of unit
with about 50 sets of negative and positive plates.
>
> According to my battery handbook a NICKEL-IRON-ALKALINE CELL exchanges the
oxygen from the iron plate to the nickel plate. The liberation of oxygen
accounts for the gassing of a NICKEL-IRON-ALKALINE CELL during charge which
causes the bubbling you see in this type of Edison cell. The nickel plate
forms a higher oxide of nickel when charge and the iron forms a oxide of
iron when discharges.
>
> They are other forms of Edison cells that may react differently. The
NICKEL-IRON-ALKALINE CELLS were the first type of Edison cells made.
>
> Roland
>
> Hy Roland an' All;
Seems like the Edison cell of the 19th century was pretty close to the
ones that they put in EV-1? The Nickel iron Hydrade? cells? What did 'ol Tom
miss here? he must have been close to a NMH type cell? Not a chemist, but a
hammer, nuts and bolts sorta guy here.How did Ovchinsky deal with the
gassing and water issues?The patents must have expired for Edison's cell by
now. Howcum these arent sold., nowadaze? Seems like they could stand the
EVers duribility test, run down DEAD left un charged, reversed cells , all
the torture we put Led Acids through.
Seeya
Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Myles Twete<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:50 PM
> Subject: RE: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
>
>
> Roland noted that Edison Batteries emit no hydrogen on charge/discharge:
> "On discharge oxygen is transferred from the positive (nickel) to the
> negative (iron) plates, Its serves merely as a carrier of oxygen
between
> the plates. On charge the transfer is in the opposite direction.
Therefore
> there is no hydrogen release."
>
> Meanwhile Lee asserts:
> "Yes, while charging. Quite a lot, actually. Excessive gassing and
high
> water
> usage was a shortcoming of the nickel-iron (Edison) cell."
>
> So...which is it and where's the evidence?
>
> -Myles
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:17:38 -0800, "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>On Jan 17, 2006, at 8:50 PM, Myles Twete wrote:
>
>> So...which is it and where's the evidence?
>>
>
>They gas like flooded NiCad batteries (and worse.) During charge the
>cell voltage exceeds the electrolysis voltage for the electrolyte. The
>proof is by checking the charge voltage (per cell) and the voltage
>required for the electrolysis of a water KoH solution. An alternative
>source for this information is available from
><http://www.beutilityfree.com/batteryNiFe/battery_flyer.pdf>. It seems
>that this company is importing new NiFe batteries from China for home
>energy systems (not for EVs, like many NiFe batteries these things have
>severe voltage sag over 200 amps.) The PDF kinda reads like a battery
>salesman (efficiency is likely not as good as they claim, gassing is
>worse than they let on,...)
Thanks for the link. I was wondering where to get these batteries.
Dismaying to see them that expensive, especially from ChiCom.
>
>NiFe batteries where used in EVs (early 20th century.) The sharp
>voltage sag under excess load could actually be useful when you where
>using a contactor controller (smoothing the power steps.) They have a
>reputation for very long life and great resistance to both charge and
>discharge abuse (I suppose controlled charging could be an issue in the
>early 20th century.)
That turn-of-the-last century electric horseless carriage that they
have at the Ford museum (photos on my web site under "trips") contains
Edison cells that are still completely functional. They still run the
thing occasionally.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Curious, which island are you on? The reason I ask is because I visited Kuwai
and Maui a few months ago. Maui would lend itself to typical range issues, but
I was thinking as we drove out big Dodge Magnum around Kuwai how ideally suited
an EV would be for this island. If you drove the long way around the Island
that was probably about the useable range for the electric right there. There
would be no place you couldn't realistically drive it. Also I think the maximum
speed limit I saw was 50mph, something that lends itself to efficient driving.
As far as the Van or the truck, either *could* be done, but they're going to
end up heavy conversions. All the weight is going to be your enemy and your
going to need more batteries (and more battery weight) to give a decent range.
Dodge had their TEVan conversions in the 90's. A few still survive and I know
they had good range, but they also used expensive flooded NiCad batteries. On
the other hand though, there'd deffinitely be pleny of room for batteries.
lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
aloha,
just wondering if anyone has ever converted a chevy
astro van, or know of any reason why it would.wouldn't
make a good candidate for an EV.
i've got a couple with auto trannies, a 94, and 95.
i'm thinking about converting one of them.
i've been living off grid here in hawaii for a few
years, and can install and maintain solar systems, but
am less mechanically inclined, at least when it comes
to engines, etc...i'm more of a nuts and bolts kinda
guy, so i'm attracted to EV's for their simplicity and
the thought that i could charge it up off our solar
system. even with my experience with solar electric
sytems, and general ICE mechanics, i'm new to this
idea, and still learning the EV "language" and
options.
i've also got an older dodge ram 50 with a manual
trans. 4x4 to play with.
any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly
appreciated. there doesn't seem to be a big EV scene
here, unless you count all the golf carts at the
resorts.
mahalo,
lee parrish
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> That turn-of-the-last century electric horseless carriage that they
> have at the Ford museum (photos on my web site under "trips") contains
> Edison cells that are still completely functional. They still run the
> thing occasionally.
My grandfather was in charge of restoring that vehicle. It was Mrs.
Ford's. He actually took the batteries home and rejuvenated them; his
memory is fuzzy, however.
- Arthur
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not so...
The field poles are SUPPOESED to be magnetically connected to each
other.....
That's how the motor works.
All the cases I have seen use steel bolts and iron field lams.
Rich Rudman
----- Original Message -----
From: "England Nathan-r25543" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:23 PM
Subject: Magnet isolation?
> I am just checking to see what other EV folks know, I was told that the
> bolts holding the shoes to the side of the motor case are supposed to be
> insulated from the motor case because it is a magnetic short from one
> shoe to another. I don't know enough to validate or disclaim this idea
> and no one else around me knows either.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Nathan
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The bolt on one of my TS cell terminals won't tighten up. Bolt goes in, but
it comes to a point where it won't tighten any further. What are my choices
on getting it fixed?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You are correct, these are switch mode bulk charge supplies.
More technical details including manuals and drawings can be found at:
http://www.cdstandbypower.com/products/power_sys/system/agm.htm
They do a real nice soft start with ~8 second ramp up time.
Modules are hot swappable.
I thought these would be ideally suited for anyone running a native 48V plant,
but my idea like yours is to string 4 of them together for a 192V charger.
I know the bulk idea isn't best for individuals who want a couple units but
maybe someone with a resale business would pick them all up and run them as
special hot deal items. Or use them in some sort of promotion.
Anway, I hope there is some interest. I just don't have the funds or time to
time to take them all and try to sell them individually. I'm doing my part by
taking 6 of them. The company will either sell them or at worst I fear, throw
them away. In that case however I'll save them and drop 'em for $50 +
shipping.
Mike
On 1/18/06, Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Just to be clear, you seem to be talking about switch-mode telco PSUs here.
>I've used similar units before (48V, 45A), several in series for EV
>battery charging, obviously you should check the data sheet carefully
>before purchasing.
>These ones seem to be universal input and PFC, nice :)
>
>Regards
>Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.dragtimes.com/top50.php
Only 45 votes away- still with the older, slower time.
Congrats to Matt!
-Jay
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:07:04 -0700, "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>The bolt on one of my TS cell terminals won't tighten up. Bolt goes in, but
>it comes to a point where it won't tighten any further. What are my choices
>on getting it fixed?
Heli-coil is probably the best solution.
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Why would a SepEx be 1/3rd, is that due to the limited
> current or wattage (field strength)? I figure mine would
> be on acceleration 72V (at 1 ohm) x 72A = field5184W in the
> field on a SepEx or on series 36V x 500A = field18000W.
Slight problem with your math/logic, Mark.
In the sep-ex case you have computed only the field power, but in the
series case you appear to be comparing it to the full motor power. The
field winding of a series motor only drops a volt or two of the applied
voltage, so just as in the sep-ex case, its power is a fraction of the
total motor power. It does not drop 1/2 the applied voltage, as your
math implies.
On acceleration, the sep-ex motor in a vehicle like the Dynasty IT (just
because I have personal experience with that one) will draw the full
400A @ 72V allowed by the Curtis sep-ex controller; it doesn't matter
how much of that is consumed by the field and how much by the armature.
The torque and RPM may be different than for a series motor fed the same
power, but the HP to the ground is similar if the motors have similar
efficiency (and sep-ex typically has the edge).
The direct drive sep-ex Dynasty IT has plenty of snap off the line; it
is quite easy to beat unsuspecting ICEs across an intersection. It is
about 1500lbs and runs a 72V pack with a Curtis 1244 or 1274 400A sep-ex
controller.
You are looking at spending $125-150 for a series field (plus labour?);
have you considered just purchasing a proper sep-ex controller for your
motor instead? Seems to me that someone on the list had a 1244 or 1274
for sale not that long ago and perhaps it is still available.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> There have been some recent posts concerning a 7" x 15" lift
> truck motor that was thought to be a series wound motor, but
> is actually a sep ex motor.
> Based on size and weight, I estimate it is at least a 10 HP
> nominal motor and can be pushed higher intermittently. Ideal
> for a small EV - or is it?
It should be just fine, provided that it really is a sep-ex and not a
shunt motor.
Of course, it needs to be properly controlled to perform well, and
ideally you need to know what the specs are for it (min/max field
voltage and current, max armature current vs time) to help ensure that
you don't kill it.
> I too was going to scrap (or sell very cheap) the 7" x 15"
> lift truck motor, and just find another one.
If you are really set on using the EV1 controllers that you have on
hand, then this may be your best option. No doubt about it, a series
motor should be easier to get working since there are no controller
parameters to tune at all. (Well, maybe current limit ;^)
> But, I am curious, is this thing (the 7x15 sep ex motor)
> any good? Can it be used?
If it is really a sep-ex and not a shunt motor, then absolutely it
should be good.
As an example, the Dynasty IT (a NEV), is about 1500lbs and uses a
smaller sep-ex motor than this with a direct drive (fixed reduction)
transaxle and achieves quite accpetable on-road performance with a 72V
pack and 400A Curtis sep-ex controller. Assuming your larger motor has
an internal fan and is ventilated, it should be capable of being run
even harder and providing more peak power.
If you are converting a vehicle with a multi-speed tranny, then I would
advise retaining the ability to change gears so that you can always
select a lower gear for more starting torque should you need it.
> What would I really be in for if I tried to use it?
I would suggest that you must plan on obtaining a proper sep-ex
controller if you want to get this thing working well without pulling
all your hair out. Curtis offers 2, the 1244 and 1274. For either one
you would need to purchase, borrow, or rent a Curtis programmer so that
you can tune the controller for good performance with your motor.
Either of these models would get you 72V at 400A max. The main
differences that stand out in my memory between the two is that the 1274
may offer the option of a brake pot to control regen (the 1244 may only
offer off-throttle regen), but lacks the undervoltage limiting of the
1244 so will allow you to severely over-discharge your pack. I think
another difference is that one model allows a max RPM limit without
needing a speed sensor while the other requires a sensor.
If the motor will handle it, you might look into a Zapi sep-ex
controller; not sure about the programming requirements of these, but
they will go to 96V and 500A, which is the highest power option I am
aware of for a sep-ex motor.
While I believe it is possible to control the motor using two separate
controllers, I think that that would be quite a project in and of itself
and is unlikely to result in anywhere near the performance obtainable
with a sep-ex controller. And, if you get anything wrong along the way
with your 2 controller approach, you could fry the motor (e.g. apply too
little field and you will get severe arcing; apply too much for too long
and you could fry the field...).
Finally, I think you had expressed concern that your EV1(s) might be a
bit on the anemic side; while the one used for the field may not need
lots of current capability, the armature controller does or your
performance will suffer.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you saying that the thread inside the terminals is stripped?
You can always unscrew large nut and put flat lug (with crimped in
cable) underneath it and tighten the nut back, so you don't use
internal threaded hole at all.
Victor
Bill Dennis wrote:
The bolt on one of my TS cell terminals won't tighten up. Bolt goes in, but
it comes to a point where it won't tighten any further. What are my choices
on getting it fixed?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please let it be known that the Current Eliminator dragster races most every
weekend in Bracket racing form.At any time it could be set up to run record
qt.mile runs with proper batteries. A
potential battery sponsor was told in november by an EV person that I do not
race the
CE any longer..
Dennis Berube 4700+ ev drag timeslips in my possesion to prove it
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not knowing for sure, I'd say just about any battery that has a
water-based electrolyte will have some electrolysis component.
Mark Freidberg wrote:
Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
Mark Freidberg
EAA member
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The bolt on one of my TS cell terminals won't tighten up.
> Bolt goes in, but it comes to a point where it won't tighten
> any further. What are my choices on getting it fixed?
Does "won't tighten any further" mean the bolt keeps turning but doesn't
get tighter (i.e. threads are stripped), or that the bolt stops turning
but hasn't gone in far enough to hold the lug tightly to the terminal?
If stripped, then you have to drill and tap the hole. If you want to
continue using the same size bolt, you need to do as Neon John suggests
and use a helicoil insert. If you don't mind using a slightly larger
bolt for this one connection, then you can just drill and tap the hole
for a slightly larger diameter bolt.
If the bolt stops turning before the lug is held securely to the
terminal, then either the bolt is a bit too long or there may be
something in the hole preventing the bolt from tightening all the way,
or either the bolt or hole threads may be damaged. You can easily
inspect the bolt threads once you remove it; if damaged, you can clean
them up by chasing them with a die, or more likely simply replace the
bolt. You can cleanup the hole threads by chasing them with an
appropriate tap. A jeweler's screwdriver or similarly narrow, pointed
tool can be used to clean out anything that might have accumulated in
the bottom of the hole.
As long as the bolt is going far enough into the hole to engage several
threads, the simplest workaround may be to simply put a(nother) washer
under the head of the bolt and see if it tightens up satisfactorily
then.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Although i really like the "batman" listed at Cloud Electric
<http://www.cloudelectric.com/category.html?UCIDs=901767>, (although it says
max +45v which might not work if i have a 48v system) it would be nice to
find something that is a bit more economical. I don't really like the "Cloud
EV - Dual LCD Volt & Amp Meter
Display<http://www.cloudelectric.com/item.jhtml?UCIDs=866086%7C901767&PRID=1234502>"
on the right of the batman because it only handles either ac or dc, and has
a set voltage sensitivity.
Basically just wan't something that has adjustable settings, and can display
both volts and amps on the same screen.
Any ideas?
Marc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The week after the New Year, I would charge my EVâs main pack
with my PFC-30 and my 12 V aux battery with an automotive 12 V
charger. Then during the week, each one-hour lunch period I would
skip eating and go run an errand to work my self back to a better
situation.
My one 12 V U1 aux battery was not enough capacity to run the
headlights for any period of night driving. My aux battery rack was
designed to hold two U1 batteries in parallel. I bought another U1
battery and cabled it in parallel. Now I doubled my 30 amp hour aux
battery capacity to 60 AHrs.
Next, I researched what DC to DC converters were available in the
25 amp output range (or better). I found two that looked like they
were more water tight, but I was unable to get a definitive answer
from the suppliers as to how long it would take to arrive if
ordered. Both sources were ordering from Europe, so it could be
weeks for it to get to my hands.
For the time being I made do with the limited two charger method of
being able to drive my EV. The motor was making more noise than
usual. I started researching for a repair source to replace my
motor. I thought it wiser to replace rather than spend the time to
rework the motor. Once I was up and running at 100%, I could find a
new home for the old motor.
Since having my S-10 Blazer converted in 1992, I knew I would not
be like most of the EV community. I would not have the time or
location to allow working on my EV. In the bringing I lived in an
Apt that did not allow vehicle repairs, and I was working 24 by 7,
365 (lots of money but no time). I have done well being dependant
on the EV repair infrastructure that was in place.
At first, in the early 90âs it would be the company that did my
conversion (the now defunct Solar Electric). Then for many years, I
was able to utilize a San Mateo EV repair shop (the now retired
Mikeâs Auto Care). After Mike retired, and hp CEO Carly Fiorina
laid me off, I was running on borrowed time.
The New Yearâs storm floods did a number on my life, and the EV
portion of the damage left me without EV repair support. I am still
in a position where both location and time does not allow me to do
my own repairs. Where I live does not allow vehicle work, and I am
heavy into my College course work.
My research let me find my closest EV conversion company in
Washington State. While I know I could make that happen, that is a
very long way to go to get my EV repaired.
I was coming up empty in finding a nearby mechanic that would even
touch an EV replacement job. Even with several friends and EAA
members trying, there just werenât any EV repair resources within
the state.
My best hope was still to keep seeking a local mechanic to do the
work. But I would need to gain the information to explain to the
mechanic what the work involved was. An auto mechanic is not going
to be wowed with a bunch of EV electric talk. That would likely
confuse and discourage them from taking the job.
Last Sunday I was able to hook up with one of our local EV Gods
(which are now one fewer with Otmar having moved north). We drove
my EV up on vehicle ramps and got under the EV to take a look.
Everything looked OK, but looks can be deceiving.
The new motor noise might be contamination of the commutator and
brushes. A generous EAA member supplied me with a can of
non-flammable cleaner designed just for this type of cleaning. The
band on the nine inch Advanced DC motor was opened, exposing the
commutator and brushes which were sprayed thoroughly while I revved
the motor. We did this twice sol they are clean now.
The adaptor plate Solar Electric used was not a plate piece of
metal that was machined to marry the motor to the transmission.
There was about a two inch metal band welded onto the plate that
the motor slips into to mate with the plate. While this makes for a
secure mounting of the motor and transmission, it was different
than what is usually used today.
My thinking of just buying a new motor may be wrong here, the
adaptor plate may make it easier to drop the motor and transmission
together, and then separate the transmission from the two, leaving
the motor and adaptor as one sub-assembly. Then the old motor and
adaptor plate could be reworked locally (by the EV God who happens
to be a Machinist).
We got the EV down off the ramps and I got to see the DC to DC that
our local EV God was using in his modified Sparrow. Smaller,
lighter weight, and for less cost than what I found. But I would
need to work on making it more water tight.
I left with a quieter motor and confidence that the cleaning likely
extended the life of the motor. I also now knew exactly what the
mechanic needed to do. I could keep it simple as to not scare them
away.
OK, now I am on a different tact. I am searching for a mechanic
with their own shop, which will remove the motor, and leave my EV
at their place for the few days it takes to rework the motor. Then
the refurbished motor would be reinstalled. This would make it a
little easier to find a mechanic willing to do the work.
I also am researching the purchase of another vehicle. If I find a
mechanic to do the work, I will need it to ferry the motor over to
be refurbished and back. If I donât find a mechanic, I can
minimize my use of the EV to extend its life.
The purchase of another vehicle was going to happen anyway at a
later time when I was closer toward the completion of my BSCS
Degree. Because I would be moving out of the area and likely to an
area that had not seen an EV let alone any public EV charging, I
would have find a new owner for my EV in this area. Then they could
enjoy all the benefits of EV ownership, public EV charging and a
large EV community.
All my leads and contacts to find a mechanic were coming up empty.
Everyone has either closed shop, retired, or has moved on to
something else. I put an ad out on Craigslist.com to find a
mechanic.
Not unlike fishing, while I waiting for a Mechanic to bite, I made
an appointment to have a local auto repair facility repack my wheel
bearings, for a grease lube job, replace my transmission fluid, and
check my differential gear oil for contamination. That should
remedy the areas were water may have entered.
But this is not my idea of the best way to spend a Saturday. So
that I know my EV will be completed, I plan to get there just as
they open at 8 am. Since it is Electric, I will be there all day
for when they do the work I can instruct them on how to drive my EV
(they will want to turn the key to start the vehicle and the engine
wonât start, then they will give up and not do any work on the
vehicle). Basically, I will be there the whole day.
I will bring my College text books with me and be an Auto shop
lounge lizard. Youâve been there: a cheesy little corner with a
couch you have to share with four other people, a center table
covered in old magazines, a TV set to a loud obnoxious channel no
one wants to watch, and an unattended child roaming all over.
What fun.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The week after the New Year, I would charge my EVs main pack with
my PFC-30 and my 12 V aux battery with an automotive 12 V charger.
Then during the week, each one-hour lunch period I would skip
eating and go run an errand to work my self back to a better
situation.
My one 12 V U1 aux battery was not enough capacity to run the
headlights for any period of night driving. My aux battery rack was
designed to hold two U1 batteries in parallel. I bought another U1
battery and cabled it in parallel. Now I doubled my 30 amp hour aux
battery capacity to 60 AHrs.
Next, I researched what DC to DC converters were available in the
25 amp output range (or better). I found two that looked like they
were more water tight, but I was unable to get a definitive answer
from the suppliers as to how long it would take to arrive if
ordered. Both sources were ordering from Europe, so it could be
weeks for it to get to my hands.
For the time being I made do with the limited two charger method of
being able to drive my EV. The motor was making more noise than
usual. I started researching for a repair source to replace my
motor. I thought it wiser to replace rather than spend the time to
rework the motor. Once I was up and running at 100%, I could find a
new home for the old motor.
Since having my S-10 Blazer converted in 1992, I knew I would not
be like most of the EV community. I would not have the time or
location to allow working on my EV. In the bringing I lived in an
Apt that did not allow vehicle repairs, and I was working 24 by 7,
365 (lots of money but no time). I have done well being dependant
on the EV repair infrastructure that was in place.
At first, in the early 90s it would be the company that did my
conversion (the now defunct Solar Electric). Then for many years, I
was able to utilize a San Mateo EV repair shop (the now retired
Mikes Auto Care). After Mike retired, and hp CEO Carly Fiorina
laid me off, I was running on borrowed time.
The New Years storm floods did a number on my life, and the EV
portion of the damage left me without EV repair support. I am still
in a position where both location and time does not allow me to do
my own repairs. Where I live does not allow vehicle work, and I am
heavy into my College course work.
My research let me find my closest EV conversion company in
Washington State. While I know I could make that happen, that is a
very long way to go to get my EV repaired.
I was coming up empty in finding a nearby mechanic that would even
touch an EV replacement job. Even with several friends and EAA
members trying, there just werent any EV repair resources within
the state.
My best hope was still to keep seeking a local mechanic to do the
work. But I would need to gain the information to explain to the
mechanic what the work involved was. An auto mechanic is not going
to be wowed with a bunch of EV electric talk. That would likely
confuse and discourage them from taking the job.
Last Sunday I was able to hook up with one of our local EV Gods
(which are now one fewer with Otmar having moved north). We drove
my EV up on vehicle ramps and got under the EV to take a look.
Everything looked OK, but looks can be deceiving.
The new motor noise might be contamination of the commutator and
brushes. A generous EAA member supplied me with a can of
non-flammable cleaner designed just for this type of cleaning. The
band on the nine inch Advanced DC motor was opened, exposing the
commutator and brushes which were sprayed thoroughly while I revved
the motor. We did this twice sol they are clean now.
The adaptor plate Solar Electric used was not a plate piece of
metal that was machined to marry the motor to the transmission.
There was about a two inch metal band welded onto the plate that
the motor slips into to mate with the plate. While this makes for a
secure mounting of the motor and transmission, it was different
than what is usually used today.
My thinking of just buying a new motor may be wrong here, the
adaptor plate may make it easier to drop the motor and transmission
together, and then separate the transmission from the two, leaving
the motor and adaptor as one sub-assembly. Then the old motor and
adaptor plate could be reworked locally (by the EV God who happens
to be a Machinist).
We got the EV down off the ramps and I got to see the DC to DC that
our local EV God was using in his modified Sparrow. Smaller,
lighter weight, and for less cost than what I found. But I would
need to work on making it more water tight.
I left with a quieter motor and confidence that the cleaning likely
extended the life of the motor. I also now knew exactly what the
mechanic needed to do. I could keep it simple as to not scare them
away.
OK, now I am on a different tact. I am searching for a mechanic
with their own shop, which will remove the motor, and leave my EV
at their place for the few days it takes to rework the motor. Then
the refurbished motor would be reinstalled. This would make it a
little easier to find a mechanic willing to do the work.
I also am researching the purchase of another vehicle. If I find a
mechanic to do the work, I will need it to ferry the motor over to
be refurbished and back. If I dont find a mechanic, I can minimize
my use of the EV to extend its life.
The purchase of another vehicle was going to happen anyway at a
later time when I was closer toward the completion of my BSCS
Degree. Because I would be moving out of the area and likely to an
area that had not seen an EV let alone any public EV charging, I
would have find a new owner for my EV in this area. Then they could
enjoy all the benefits of EV ownership, public EV charging and a
large EV community.
All my leads and contacts to find a mechanic were coming up empty.
Everyone has either closed shop, retired, or has moved on to
something else. I put an ad out on Craigslist.com to find a
mechanic.
Not unlike fishing, while I waiting for a Mechanic to bite, I made
an appointment to have a local auto repair facility repack my wheel
bearings, for a grease lube job, replace my transmission fluid, and
check my differential gear oil for contamination. That should
remedy the areas were water may have entered.
But this is not my idea of the best way to spend a Saturday. So
that I know my EV will be completed, I plan to get there just as
they open at 8 am. Since it is Electric, I will be there all day
for when they do the work I can instruct them on how to drive my EV
(they will want to turn the key to start the vehicle and the engine
wont start, then they will give up and not do any work on the
vehicle). Basically, I will be there the whole day.
I will bring my College text books with me and be an Auto shop
lounge lizard. Youve been there: a cheesy little corner with a
couch you have to share with four other people, a center table
covered in old magazines, a TV set to a loud obnoxious channel no
one wants to watch, and an unattended child roaming all over.
What fun.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
