EV Digest 5110
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Any consensus on controller reliability?
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Paralleling and Serialing Controllers
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Any consensus on controller reliability?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Any consensus on controller reliability?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EV: a chance to demo ev's with range & performance:drags in NY on May 11;
IL on May 13
by Brian Cole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) 4+ batteries under Cabrio back seat?
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) 2 motors & 2 controllers?(Re: Paralleling and Serialing)
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: is this a good idea?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Contrabassoon & Electric vehicles. TV news story.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Contrabassoon & Electric vehicles. TV news story.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Another NiCd run in my Sparrow
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: inside information about Bill
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: chevy astro conversion?Re: chevy astro conversion?
by lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Another NiCd run in my Sparrow
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: chevy astro conversion?
by lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: chevy astro conversion?
by lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: chevy astro conversion?
by lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: chevy astro conversion?
by lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: chevy astro conversion?
by lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) re: 10hp clark Industrial truck motor 36-48 volt dc NOS Item number:
7581988119
by Darin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: chevy astro conversion?
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Contrabassoon & Electric vehicles. TV news story.
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertor
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: chevy astro conversion?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) re: 10hp clark Industrial truck motor
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The Zilla, made by Café Electric is very good. Well worth the cost. Check
the features.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Freidberg
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 2:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Any consensus on controller reliability?
Is there any consensus amongst list members as far as which dc motor
controllers (in applications of 96v and above) are the more reliable ones?
Mark Freidberg
EAA member
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:41 PM 1/20/2006, you wrote:
Could two controllers work on a series motor? There are 4 connections.
However sharing the com might be very very bad. Could a motor be modified
to allow two controllers to work on it. Seems possible if two independent
windings were installed. A 72v 8 inch with two Altrax controllers. Motor
more expensive controllers cheaper. Lawrence Rhodes....
Something like this may work. Split the field and let each controller have
1/2 but share the armature.
______________
_____________________| Motor |
* __| Armature |===
Bat + | |______________|
|
| __________
|__|1/2 Field |______________________
| |__________| |
| __________ |
|__|1/2 Field |_____ |
|__________| | |
| |
____|_____ ____|_____
|First | |Second |
|Controller| |Controller|
|__________| |__________|
| |
Bat - | |
*______________________________________|________________|
See ya Monday, got to go look at an old, big (600+ cubic inchs) single
cylinder engine.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've only used a Zilla 1k in a 156Vdc Sparrow, but it
worked very well. After reading all of the racing
emails using the Zilla 1k and 2k I would say hands
down it wins on reliability. Keep in mind that racing
exposes the control to extreme conditions that on most
street EV's can't even come close to the stress levels
it sees in this application. After your first Curtis
fails you have
the same investment as a Zilla 1k to drive your EV
again. Not to mention you took a big hit on
performance driving your EV with the Curtis. I'm sure
we'll see more 'reliability' testing this weekend in
Florida at BBB.
Rod
--- Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is there any consensus amongst list members as far
> as which dc motor controllers (in applications of
> 96v and above) are the more reliable ones?
>
> Mark Freidberg
> EAA member
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo!
> Autos
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can only speak from my experience:
-4 years, 7K miles with a Curtis: no problems. Didn't
like the whine with ADC 9", though, before 5
mph/switch to 15 kHz.
-6 mos., 1K miles w/ DCP600A Raptor. Quiet, but
catastrophic failure could not be re-built.
-1 yr., 3K miles w/ re-built (Peter Senkowski Gen. II
DCP600A Raptor) & going strong!
(Not used in racing).
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've only used a Zilla 1k in a 156Vdc Sparrow, but
> it
> worked very well. After reading all of the racing
> emails using the Zilla 1k and 2k I would say hands
> down it wins on reliability. Keep in mind that
> racing
> exposes the control to extreme conditions that on
> most
> street EV's can't even come close to the stress
> levels
> it sees in this application. After your first
> Curtis
> fails you have
> the same investment as a Zilla 1k to drive your EV
> again. Not to mention you took a big hit on
> performance driving your EV with the Curtis. I'm
> sure
> we'll see more 'reliability' testing this weekend in
> Florida at BBB.
> Rod
>
> --- Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Is there any consensus amongst list members as
> far
> > as which dc motor controllers (in applications of
> > 96v and above) are the more reliable ones?
> >
> > Mark Freidberg
> > EAA member
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> > What are the most popular cars? Find out at
> Yahoo!
> > Autos
> >
> >
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
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--- Begin Message ---
http://nesea.org/transportation/tour
http://nedra.com
NESEA's Tour de Sol competitors head to NY's Lebanon
Valley dragstrip
on May 11th for 1/4 mile runs. Two days later NEDRA
runs at the Joliet, IL dragstrip. The tracks are about
900 miles apart. NESEA emphasizes fuel economy & low
emissions - a Prius would generally do well in NESEA's
acceleration contests - while NEDRA emphasizes 1/4
mile acceleration. I'd appreciate contact from those
who could help pull off getting an ev to compete in
both events and drive those 900 miles. This would be
great publicity for all organizations involved, and
help dismantel the dogma that an ev can't have good
range and performance. It be a thrill to see any ev
pull this off, but the fewer recharges the better. I'm
a Tour de Sol volunteer, and very much want to connect
the respective alternative energy/vehicle festivals
which these drags will be a part of.
-brian cole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm converting an '87 VW Cabrio - planning for 18 6V Trojans @108V. This
means having 2 batts under the rear seat. It looks like 4 or 6 batteries
will fit under the seat with a little extra effort. This would put 8 in
the "trunk", 4 under the seat, and 6 under the hood. Any downsides to this?
My goal is to fit the control electronics inside sealed PVC boxes under
the hood. The only Cabrio I've found with under-seat batteries is Joseph
Vaughn-Perling's "ZAP" (www.socalev.com).
Adrian
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How do you set up a car to do that?
If one motor was on the rear wheels, and another motor
was on the front wheels on a 4wd car, what technique
is used so one set of wheels doesn't rotate faster
than the other?
Has anyone have more information on this?
Maybe you could get a Geo Metro and add another motor
on the rearend?
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Two controllers in parallel can't be done. However
> what will work is two
> controllers and two motors. If you want a 144 vdc
> controller/motor combo on
> the cheap then use two L91's and two Altrax 72v
> controllers. . Cheaper
> better faster........144 is always divided by two.
> LR>........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:11 PM
> Subject: Paralleling and Serialing Controllers
>
>
> >I can hear the chorus of "Bad idea" already! Has
> anyone actually
> > tried paralleling 2 controllers for more current,
> or putting 2
> > controllers in series to handle more voltage?
> >
> > My thoughts are paralleling might work if they had
> equal current, and
> > big enough capacitors that either controller could
> take full current.
> >
> > Similarly, it seems if you had big enough
> capacitors neither
> > controller's transistors would see full voltage.
> >
> > My thoughts were motivated by seeing Curtis sepex
> controllers. They
> > seem to have lots of nice features, and are pretty
> cheap. 80 Volts
> > and 600 Amps is a bit wimpy, though! Might they
> survive being put in
> > series? Would it help to parallel them with some
> big capacitors?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for the education.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NIce idea but you will be carrying around extra weight when you are not
using the afterburner. YOu will also have to select out the controller to
go highering voltage. So when the afterburner is in the controller is out.
LR...............
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: is this a good idea?
A friend and I have been playing with an electric car. It currently has 4
batteries in series (48v) and a got-for-cheap curtis controller that is
rated
at only 48 volts. All works well so far and very little has been spent.
To
further our what-can-we-do-for-next-to-nothing project, we had the idea to
put
two more batteries in the series but AFTER the controller. We would use a
manual switch to insert these two batteries in the series after we're
already
full throttle using 48 volts. We call this "afterburner" mode.
Will this allow our 48 volt controller to feel no more than 48 volts of
pressure, thus keeping it happy.
Dale Curren
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Click on my face. It's the ugly one. LR............
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: Contrabassoon & Electric vehicles. TV news story.
I took a look but when the second non-ev story started I gave up. Am I just
being too impatient?
-Mike
On 1/20/06, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://kntv.feedroom.com/index.jsp?auto_band=x&rf=sv&fr_story=1e4da9dabd6c36eb4faae9003bcdb440284a7a4e
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://kntv.feedroom.com/iframeset.jsp?ord=724439 It's third on the list
now. It seems to move around. Click on the Electric car story. One of the
6 video squares. LR>.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: Contrabassoon & Electric vehicles. TV news story.
I took a look but when the second non-ev story started I gave up. Am I just
being too impatient?
-Mike
On 1/20/06, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://kntv.feedroom.com/index.jsp?auto_band=x&rf=sv&fr_story=1e4da9dabd6c36eb4faae9003bcdb440284a7a4e
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Okay, this time I took a chance (expired tabs) and drove around my
"block". It's about 6.5 miles around. Speed limit is 40-50MPH, and
only 2 full stops needed.
My previous attempts were back and forth on my side road, and I
realize that I was stopping and starting at the bottom of the hill at
both ends of that trip.
This trip:
Miles: 12.9
KWH used: 2.51
AH used: 15.8
53% on EMeter this time as I changed the floor to 0%.
Peukert is set to 1.05, and I have no idea if this is reasonable for
NiCd. I may set it to 1.01.
So, we get 195 WH/Mile, which is much more reasonable, and pretty
close to what I used to get.
With a nominal 6.57 KWH in the pack, I get a possible 33.7 miles.
Hmm, this is cutting it WAY too close for my needed 32 mile commute.
If I could only charge while I was on the ferry. sigh.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dube wrote:
> As for the rest of the below, it is mostly fabrication. Contact me off
> list if you are interested in the details,
So what's the real story?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the reminder Philippe....
To answer you question, the minimum speed on this
stretch is 40mph, with a max of 55mph.
I meant to mention that.
I have seen slow moving vehicles on the road here, and
have been one myself. The "Spirit of Aloha"
necessitates pulling off to the side if a line forms
behind you, to let the line pass, otherwise driving
the minimum speed is not problem.
-Lee
You can go far on a flat road at low speed
inexpensively on lead acid
batteries, what is the required speed ?
cordialement,
Philippe
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--- Begin Message ---
Yeah that is pretty tight and sounds like a recipe for some serious
headaches as it means that you will always have to get a perfect charge and
have no unexpected energy use. I don't suppose there is any chance of
squeezing in a couple more cells...
I can't make my commute either, but this spring I am going to try setting up
a dump charge station halfway along the way.
damon
Miles: 12.9
KWH used: 2.51
AH used: 15.8
53% on EMeter this time as I changed the floor to 0%.
Peukert is set to 1.05, and I have no idea if this is reasonable for NiCd.
I may set it to 1.01.
So, we get 195 WH/Mile, which is much more reasonable, and pretty close to
what I used to get.
With a nominal 6.57 KWH in the pack, I get a possible 33.7 miles.
Hmm, this is cutting it WAY too close for my needed 32 mile commute.
If I could only charge while I was on the ferry. sigh.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
aloha Dave,
Yes the prices are high here, but only if you buy! We
have the highest gas prices in the nation now, thanks
to an insane new "gas cap" law that matches our price
to california's. Anyway, i think there is a huge
untapped market for EV's here (just thinking of people
i know personally, and the drama we've all been
wrestling with lately, regarding sustainability, peak
oil, etc...)
I had the idea yesteday of finding an investor to
install an "EV refueling station/parking garage" in
hilo, run completely off of solar (on the roof of
course). Charge by the kwh perhaps? THAT would
definitely solve our range problem, and maybe even
lead to a franchise business (just kidding).
In the meantime, I'll have to compare the average mpg
and gross vehicle weights of the S-10 and Astro. I
can't imagine the van being that much worse,
aerodynamically speaking, or much heavier. The 100 mi
range on an S-10 sounds encouraging, as i could
presumbably duplicate that design, and i learned about
the leaf spring helpers from another EVer's site, to
give me a 2000 lb carrying capacity in the rear. An
extended cab S-10 would be nice too, if i could find a
donor as nice as the van (we got it for 500 bucks, old
taxi, well maintained, no rust, but high
miles...almost 400k on it, with the original tranny as
far as i know, which seems to be on it's last legs).
Also, I do have a friend in Hilo, that lives right
downtown, who i'm sure would let me plug in, (i could
always go watch a movie, and probably get enough
charge to get home) and am already planning on the
quick charger setup. Two Outback Inverters can create
the 240V i would need at home to quick charge as well,
as i'm planning on doing most the charging off the
array at peak sun exposure, after the main battery
bank is topped off. Since we are completely off grid,
it will cost us more in solar panels, than the whole
EV conversion, but i just look at it like buying a 50
year supply of gas up front, and we'll eventually
break even. :o) The upside is panels hold their
value and keep making energy, whereas gas is a one
time deal.
The Cheaper, shorter range traction pack might be the
way to go for a newbie like me right now. i could
always upgrade on the second pack! ;o)
Was planning on removing most of the floor in the
cargo hold and replacing it with some lighter
material/metal with access hatches for the battery
servicing/maintaining.
thanks for your help Dave,
Lee
Lee,
Aloha. I'm really envious! I lived in Mililani, Oahu
for 2 years in
the
late 80's and loved everything but the prices.
Visited the big island
in
89. Walked out on the hot hardened lava and watched
the molten lava
flow -
about 3 weeks before the lava reached and burned down
the south visitor
center. Also spent quite a bit at Hilo Hatties.
Anyway, some things to consider. I have a Dodge TEVan
(Caravan) which
has
30 180Ah NiCad batteries. The best I have been able
to do is 45 miles,
although I think some have been able to do 60 miles in
flatter areas.
Some S-10 pickup conversions have been able to do 100
miles with 40
6-volt
flooded golf cart batteries. Check the EV Album.
(Actually, the
original
was the Red Beastie, a Toyota pickup.) The Astro is
built on the S-10
chassis, so a manual tranny from an S-10 should fit
the Astro, which
would
allow use of the S-10 adapter and some other kit
pieces. S-10
aftermarket
parts will likely fit the Astro to give greater weight
carrying
capacity.
If you go this route, you will need to place the
batteries where you
can
water them. You might be better off just getting an
extra cab S-10 to
convert.
You should also look at finding a place in town
(Hilo?) to charge If
you
can get someone to install a 240v 50a range/rv outlet
(nema 14-50) and
get a
PFC-50 charger, you would only need half the range and
could recharge
in a
few hours (shopping and dinner). Find a friend, pay
to have the outlet
installed, and pay them for the electricity you use.
Then convince
them to
get an EV so the outlet doesn't go to waste between
your visits...
Good luck and have fun
Dave Davidson
Glen Burnie, Maryland
>From: lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: chevy astro conversion?
>Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:27:33 -0800 (PST)
>
>I live on the island of Hawaii, locally known as the
>Big Island, and it is much bigger than the other
>islands that make up the chain. A round trip here
>would be a about 250 miles. However, I very rarely
>make this trip (2-3) times a year.
>
>The range i am aiming for is about 70 miles (our once
>a week town trip is about 63-65miles...30 mi. each
way
>plus driving around town. I figure to make this a
>possibilty I would have to go with more expensive
>batteries, AGM, or NiMH, or Lion, yes? This EV would
>also have to be able to haul people and supplies, as
>that is what we use it for, it's not a commute to
work
>run, it's a stock up on what we need run. So that is
>why we I'm looking at a truck or van conversion.
>Other than this run, we usually wouldn't drive more
>than 20 mi roundtrip, and mostly less than 10 mi.
>
>On the Astro van there would be plenty of room for
>batteries under the rear floor, on either side of the
>driveshaft (with the gas tank and exhaust system
>removed of course). It has good clearance because it
>is really a truck chassis.
>
>Another option could be a similar sized, aluminum
>delivery van, to save some vehicle weight, though we
>don't have one of these at the moment, but we could
>sell off the other vehicles to aquire one.
>
>It seems possible to mount up to 500 watts of solar
>panels on the roof of a van, to help charge on the
go,
>and just make the long drive on sunny days!
>
>Does any of this sound doable, say if money is no
>object, or am i just dreaming?
>
>I dream of a production Toyota Truck hybrid with Lion
>Plug in pack that will go 60mi on batteries, and get
>100mph in hybrid mode...Toyota are you listening?
>
>Thanks for the response Ricky,
>
>Lee Parrish
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
I was getting 24mpg on average, before the tranny
started acting up again, with a lot of slow, back road
driving in low gears. Only ocassionaly doing the long
trip at highway speeds. And just shedding the 27
gal fuel tank should help in the weight dept. I don't
ever fill up the tank, just for that reason. I check
the GVW on the door and post back to the list.
-Lee
The orginal 1985 Astrovan got 28mpg. About what the
other mini vans of
the
time got. It is a light rearwheel drive van. It has
a load capacity
of
about 1500 pounds. I couldn't find the curb weight
but it should be
around
3000 pounds. LR>.............
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In a message dated 1/19/06 7:02:10 PM Pacific Standard
Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What originally sold us on the Astro/Safari was
meeting a contractor at the lumber yard one day, who
always carried about a ton of tools in the back of his
Safari, and with his V6 got a steady 21mpg. And that
was with unmodified, stock set up.
-Lee
<< The orginal 1985 Astrovan got 28mpg. About what
the other mini vans
of
the
time got. It is a light rearwheel drive van. It has
a load capacity
of
about 1500 pounds. I couldn't find the curb weight
but it should be
around
3000 pounds. LR>.............
----- Original Message ----- >>
*A pipefitter friend of mine drove one of these astros
for over 200000
miles
with a 1500lb welder in the cargo area,even back an
forth to Alaska,I
considered one for a conversion before the s10. D
Berube
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--- Begin Message ---
What originally sold us on the Astro/Safari was
meeting a contractor at the lumber yard one day, who
always carried about a ton of tools in the back of his
Safari, and with his V6 got a steady 21mpg. And that
was with unmodified, stock set up.
-Lee
<< The orginal 1985 Astrovan got 28mpg. About what
the other mini vans
of
the
time got. It is a light rearwheel drive van. It has
a load capacity
of
about 1500 pounds. I couldn't find the curb weight
but it should be
around
3000 pounds. LR>.............
----- Original Message ----- >>
*A pipefitter friend of mine drove one of these astros
for over 200000
miles
with a 1500lb welder in the cargo area,even back an
forth to Alaska,I
considered one for a conversion before the s10. D
Berube
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--- Begin Message ---
Aloha Mike,
Thanks for bringing this up...this is another idea
we've been brainstorming about, wondering if anyone
else had done it already, etc...
I've seen a couple of vehicles driving around here
with a small Honda portable generator mounting on the
front or rear bumper, but i assumed these were work
trucks, and the genny was for work purposes.
Are there generators out there that are light enough
to justify carrying the weight (only on a trip that
would knowingly exceed the range of the traction
pack), and powerful enough to actually charge the
pack, while sipping less gas than a standard ICE
without all the extra batteries. Would it be easier
to just convert a front wheel drive vehicle, by adding
a motor on the rear axle directly, and driving off the
ICE in the front only when necessary?
Please forgive me if these are very silly questions...
I can see taking our little honda EU2000i on say a
camping trip, with some panels too, and charging over
a couple of days at a beach or something. Not sure
exactly how long it would take at that rate to charge
a large battery pack. We've never had to use it so
far!
I can imagine a do-it-yourself 48v golf cart for short
trips, with a small genny strapped in, for night
commuting. I have a friend with a self contained 36v
cart, that meets his needs quite nicely with only 240
watts of solar panels on the roof. Of course it has
to be parked in the sun during the day.
any thoughts out there? As an idealist, it seems just
counterproductive to design an engine into the
equation, but i can also see it as the lesser of two
evils. I just hope battery technology can someday
bridge the gap in match the range of an ICE. (of
course some already do!)
again i have to ask, has anyone ever heard of a
battery/flywheel hybrid design? where the batteries
charge the flywheel? i read about a public transit
bus in europe somewhere, that charged it's flywheel
off the grid (like a trolley car), at each stop, and
cruise between stops solely off the flywheel. it was
in service like 17 years of something...
-Lee
With a van conversion you could get a generator
mounted where the spare tire goes.
I'm converting a 1986 toyota 4wd pickup. I guess if I
every add a generator...I'd have a hybrid.
--- Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Your probably looking at a lot of batteries or
> expensive batteries to have 70 miles with such a
> large, heavy, un-aerodynamic vehicle. It's doable
> some how I'm sure. Hopefully others will comment on
> this. For a 10 or 20 mile trip that should be very
> doable, but that 70 mile trip is probably pushing.
>
> lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I live
> on the island of Hawaii, locally known as the
> Big Island, and it is much bigger than the other
> islands that make up the chain. A round trip here
> would be a about 250 miles. However, I very rarely
> make this trip (2-3) times a year.
>
> The range i am aiming for is about 70 miles (our
> once
> a week town trip is about 63-65miles...30 mi. each
> way
> plus driving around town. I figure to make this a
> possibilty I would have to go with more expensive
> batteries, AGM, or NiMH, or Lion, yes? This EV would
> also have to be able to haul people and supplies, as
> that is what we use it for, it's not a commute to
> work
> run, it's a stock up on what we need run. So that is
> why we I'm looking at a truck or van conversion.
> Other than this run, we usually wouldn't drive more
> than 20 mi roundtrip, and mostly less than 10 mi.
>
> On the Astro van there would be plenty of room for
> batteries under the rear floor, on either side of
> the
> driveshaft (with the gas tank and exhaust system
> removed of course). It has good clearance because it
> is really a truck chassis.
>
> Another option could be a similar sized, aluminum
> delivery van, to save some vehicle weight, though we
> don't have one of these at the moment, but we could
> sell off the other vehicles to aquire one.
>
> It seems possible to mount up to 500 watts of solar
> panels on the roof of a van, to help charge on the
> go,
> and just make the long drive on sunny days!
>
> Does any of this sound doable, say if money is no
> object, or am i just dreaming?
>
> I dream of a production Toyota Truck hybrid with
> Lion
> Plug in pack that will go 60mi on batteries, and get
> 100mph in hybrid mode...Toyota are you listening?
>
> Thanks for the response Ricky,
>
> Lee Parrish
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi all-
Newbie de-lurks again, continuing to climb the learning curve...
Can anyone tell me whether the motor(s) linked below would be suitable
for a budget Geo Metro conversion? I assumed so since one was mentioned
here on the list this week. (Then I decided I shouldn't assume anything
at this point in my EV education.) FYI I'm looking to build a
NEV/LSV-type vehicle.
Also, neither listing says what type it is (e.g. permanent magnet,
series, etc.) - any ideas?
thanks,
Darin
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7581988119
and /or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7582716724
On E-Bay. Starting at $100.
Clark Industrial truck motor
Never used
part number 3/02 MLU4001 2751228
10 horse power
36/48 volt dc
200 amp
It has the internal spline.
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
genset examples:
http://www.grassrootsev.com/hybrids.htm
You need to do the math on the solar panels. They
aren't worth installing on the vehicle.
--- lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Aloha Mike,
>
> Thanks for bringing this up...this is another idea
> we've been brainstorming about, wondering if anyone
> else had done it already, etc...
>
> I've seen a couple of vehicles driving around here
> with a small Honda portable generator mounting on
> the
> front or rear bumper, but i assumed these were work
> trucks, and the genny was for work purposes.
>
> Are there generators out there that are light enough
> to justify carrying the weight (only on a trip that
> would knowingly exceed the range of the traction
> pack), and powerful enough to actually charge the
> pack, while sipping less gas than a standard ICE
> without all the extra batteries. Would it be easier
> to just convert a front wheel drive vehicle, by
> adding
> a motor on the rear axle directly, and driving off
> the
> ICE in the front only when necessary?
>
> Please forgive me if these are very silly
> questions...
>
> I can see taking our little honda EU2000i on say a
> camping trip, with some panels too, and charging
> over
> a couple of days at a beach or something. Not sure
> exactly how long it would take at that rate to
> charge
> a large battery pack. We've never had to use it so
> far!
>
> I can imagine a do-it-yourself 48v golf cart for
> short
> trips, with a small genny strapped in, for night
> commuting. I have a friend with a self contained
> 36v
> cart, that meets his needs quite nicely with only
> 240
> watts of solar panels on the roof. Of course it has
> to be parked in the sun during the day.
>
> any thoughts out there? As an idealist, it seems
> just
> counterproductive to design an engine into the
> equation, but i can also see it as the lesser of two
> evils. I just hope battery technology can someday
> bridge the gap in match the range of an ICE. (of
> course some already do!)
>
> again i have to ask, has anyone ever heard of a
> battery/flywheel hybrid design? where the batteries
> charge the flywheel? i read about a public transit
> bus in europe somewhere, that charged it's flywheel
> off the grid (like a trolley car), at each stop, and
> cruise between stops solely off the flywheel. it
> was
> in service like 17 years of something...
>
> -Lee
>
>
> With a van conversion you could get a generator
> mounted where the spare tire goes.
>
> I'm converting a 1986 toyota 4wd pickup. I guess if
> I
> every add a generator...I'd have a hybrid.
>
> --- Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Your probably looking at a lot of batteries or
> > expensive batteries to have 70 miles with such a
> > large, heavy, un-aerodynamic vehicle. It's doable
> > some how I'm sure. Hopefully others will comment
> on
> > this. For a 10 or 20 mile trip that should be very
> > doable, but that 70 mile trip is probably pushing.
> >
> > lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I
> live
> > on the island of Hawaii, locally known as the
> > Big Island, and it is much bigger than the other
> > islands that make up the chain. A round trip here
> > would be a about 250 miles. However, I very rarely
> > make this trip (2-3) times a year.
> >
> > The range i am aiming for is about 70 miles (our
> > once
> > a week town trip is about 63-65miles...30 mi. each
> > way
> > plus driving around town. I figure to make this a
> > possibilty I would have to go with more expensive
> > batteries, AGM, or NiMH, or Lion, yes? This EV
> would
> > also have to be able to haul people and supplies,
> as
> > that is what we use it for, it's not a commute to
> > work
> > run, it's a stock up on what we need run. So that
> is
> > why we I'm looking at a truck or van conversion.
> > Other than this run, we usually wouldn't drive
> more
> > than 20 mi roundtrip, and mostly less than 10 mi.
> >
> > On the Astro van there would be plenty of room for
> > batteries under the rear floor, on either side of
> > the
> > driveshaft (with the gas tank and exhaust system
> > removed of course). It has good clearance because
> it
> > is really a truck chassis.
> >
> > Another option could be a similar sized, aluminum
> > delivery van, to save some vehicle weight, though
> we
> > don't have one of these at the moment, but we
> could
> > sell off the other vehicles to aquire one.
> >
> > It seems possible to mount up to 500 watts of
> solar
> > panels on the roof of a van, to help charge on the
> > go,
> > and just make the long drive on sunny days!
> >
> > Does any of this sound doable, say if money is no
> > object, or am i just dreaming?
> >
> > I dream of a production Toyota Truck hybrid with
> > Lion
> > Plug in pack that will go 60mi on batteries, and
> get
> > 100mph in hybrid mode...Toyota are you listening?
> >
> > Thanks for the response Ricky,
> >
> > Lee Parrish
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
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>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
LR
Excellent clip! I hope I get the opportunity to do the same when I get my car
going. It all helps
promote the cause.
I noticed a little background "music" while you were driving your van around.
It sounded a little
like your controller/motor noise being synthesized by everything that happened
to the clip
between KNTV and my PC. Or maybe it was just my PC. Somewhat reminiscent of a
fifties scifi movie.
Kind of a spacey futuristic synthesized twinkling white noise. A nice but odd
touch, I wonder if
there's a way to make my car do the same?
Dave Cover
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
http://kntv.feedroom.com/index.jsp?auto_band=x&rf=sv&fr_story=1e4da9dabd6c36eb4faae9003bcdb440284a7a4e
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> 415-821-3519
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Which would draw more power from the batteries:
1- running a dc-dc converter
2- running the alternator off the tail shaft of 9" War
P motor
maybe there's smaller alternators that are more
efficient...small enough to fit directly on the
tailshaft?
thanks
Mike Golub
Fairbanks Alaska
1986 Toyota PU 4AWD
120v DC
Curtis 1209b upgraded to 120v
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--- Begin Message ---
The question is more of whether this is productive. It's using gasoline
again and if it doesn't do it as efficiently and cleanly as the original
engine then one must ask what was the point. Even the best 4 strokes-
and the Honda EU series is the best- have no computerized emission
controls and no catalytic converter, making them far dirtier than a car
engine per hp-hr.
I know the idea is that the EV can still spend most of its time running
of a charge that came from grid power and the gasoline is only there to
make the EV handle these rare instances making the overall EV idea more
viable. I'm not sure if I see it though. It won't allow you to make
long trips anyways since a generator would need to be extremely large to
keep a vehicle on the highway continuously. It's only for a scenario
where you'd do short legs with extended resting periods with no grid
power available.
A generator running a charger has a lot of issues. One, the generator
must have substantial margins as far as I understand due to power factor
issues. Second unless you have a programmable charger then the charger
can't be configured to take the max power the generator is capable of.
So me bringing up these problems does lead somewhere. I was thinking
about an inverter generator like the EU2000i, it's a plastic case,
electrically isolated, and has a modified sine wave output- basically a
square wave with a bit of dead time as far as I know. In this case it
would seem a FAR better idea to simply rectify the output back into a DC
rail (or take apart the generator and tap the original DC rail) and just
run it as a nonisolated buck/boost DC/DC converter. The generator
should be isolated itself so there wouldn't be a need to isolate the
converter. This would not only bring the power factor back to 1 but the
current draw becomes constant. A BB is more efficient and these types
of inductors are relatively cheap to build. Such a charger designed
specifically for this type of generator could be made to tweak the
current so it could maximize the possible draw off the generator without
overloading it.
Danny
lee parrish wrote:
Are there generators out there that are light enough
to justify carrying the weight (only on a trip that
would knowingly exceed the range of the traction
pack), and powerful enough to actually charge the
pack, while sipping less gas than a standard ICE
without all the extra batteries. Would it be easier
to just convert a front wheel drive vehicle, by adding
a motor on the rear axle directly, and driving off the
ICE in the front only when necessary?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:53 PM 20/01/06 -0500, Darin wrote:
Can anyone tell me whether the motor(s) linked below would be suitable for
a budget Geo Metro
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7581988119
and /or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7582716724
Hi Darin
The first one is listed capable of 200A, the second of 500A, so the second
would be better. both of them would need work to get it to the stage of
being ready to install. Being internal splined motors, there is no shaft
sticking out. Best way around this it to have a new drive end plate made
that places a new bearing where the fan sat. The motor would need an
external blower (advisable to have one even if the fan stays in). By making
the new end plate from a big enough piece of plate, the plate becomes the
adaptor to the bell housing as well. Holes are needed through the plate to
behind the flywheel to let the blower air out.
All these preparations take time, so pick up one of these motors, and get a
gearbox from your choice of vehicle, and spend the next 12 months getting
the modifications made, collecting things like DC/DC converter when one
turns up and learning the things needed to do the conversion.
As long as you are going for a small car, either would do a budget vehicle.
But advice is only worth what you pay. Ask Jim Husted to be sure.
James
--- End Message ---
