EV Digest 5118

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) 200V+  Input  DC/DC Converter
        by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: 2006 Mercury Mariner Hybrid SUV
        by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: 200V+  Input  DC/DC Converter
        by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: A Well Build EV that Recharges Itself
        by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Battery Box in the back of a Pickup
        by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Battery Box in the back of a Pickup
        by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: 200V+  Input  DC/DC Converter
        by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: Battery Box in the back of a Pickup
        by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: A Well Build EV that Recharges Itself
        by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: 200V+  Input  DC/DC Converter
        by Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Battery Beach Burnout Results and Summary
        by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: chevy astro conversion?
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Where's the Charger Connect?
        by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Where's the Charger Connect?
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: 200V+  Input  DC/DC Converter
        by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Battery Beach Burnout Results and Summary
        by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Where's the Charger Connect?
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Charging without a ground? Any safe workaround.
        by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: 4+ batteries under Cabrio back seat?
        by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: Where's the Charger Connect?
        by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) RE: Where's the Charger Connect?
        by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Japan's Superconducting Maglev
        by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Who Killed Electric Car on Air America Radio NOW - Missed IT
        by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone looked at these little DC/DC converters by Astec?  p/n AIH16C300
and AIF40C300
You can check www.newark.com and do a part number search to find spec
sheets.
These are 250V to 600V input and 16.6A @15V (for the H16C) and 40A @ 15V fo
the (F40C). Outputs are adjustable +/- 20% and can run parallel with 3%
current share accuracy.  Price from Newark for the AIH16C300 is $242.15 and
the AIF40C300 is $419.73 for single quantities.  How do these compare in
price for what you guys running 192V or more are using?

Mike,
Anchorage, AK. 

<<attachment: winmail.dat>>


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water,

Thanks for the correction.  May I ask what "real world" fuel mileage you get 
with your Prius?  I was not aware that it will go 42 mph before the ICE kicks 
in.  Your opinion-is it worth considering the option of modifying it to a "plug 
in" ?   Had I not inherited three EV's, I would be on the waiting list for a 
Prius right now.

Don
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cor van de Water<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 
  Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:18 PM
  Subject: RE: 2006 Mercury Mariner Hybrid SUV


  Don,

  Small correction to the Electric mode info you gave, as
  there is a lot of misinformation spread around by people
  who want *full* Hybrids to fail or reduce the perceived
  avantage over a souped up starter motor that some dare
  to call Hybrid:
  not 15 but 42 MPH is the redline of the electric motor on
  my Prius, when the ICE needs to be started to reduce the 
  speed of the electric motor (the torque converter is 
  attached to the 2 electric motors and engine in a way that
  causes this limit, but the power required to sustain
  42 MPH also makes it logical to kick the ICE on at
  this point. See http://john1701a.com/<http://john1701a.com/> for a bundle of
  Prius information and photos by an enthusiast user.
  Also explains how the torque converter is attached and
  how it gives continuous variable transmission, so the
  engine can be revved up for launch, revved down for coast
  and even stopped without changing the speed of the car.

  I manage to drive more than 2 miles on local roads (30 MPH)
  before the engine comes on, even though the official spec
  is only up to 1 mile. I would love to have the famous "EV"
  button that can be installed in 2004 and later Prius, but
  which is not available on the older models (as I have).

  Regards,

  Cor van de Water
  Systems Architect
  Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   Private: 
http://www.cvandewater.com<http://www.cvandewater.com/>
  Skype: cor_van_de_water    IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  Tel:   +1 408 542 5225     VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
  Fax:   +1 408 731 3675     eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
  Proxim Wireless Networks   eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
  Take your network further  http://www.proxim.com<http://www.proxim.com/>


  -----Original Message-----
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Behalf Of Don Davidson
  Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:11 PM
  To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
  Subject: Re: 2006 Mercury Mariner Hybrid SUV


  Yes, I'm aware of the Prius (non-"plug in") capabilities.  The ICE kicks in
  once the Prius reaches 15 mph and the Prius will only go a very, very short
  distance on batteries alone   I'm hoping that this Mariner might go a bit
  further on batteries than the non plug in hybrids.  Just curious what "full"
  hybrid might be in reference to
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Ryan Stotts<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> 
    To: 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
 
    Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 4:57 PM
    Subject: Re: 2006 Mercury Mariner Hybrid SUV


    Don Davidson wrote:

    > Any thoughts on this type of hybrid or it's capabilities?

    The Prius for example can drive from take off up to a certain speed on
    only the electric motor.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just about what the DCP dc/DC listed for

$450 for 300 watts from 96 to 450VDC
1/2  power from 48 to 96.

You should harden the ASTEC for weather abuse for sure.

My DCP DC/DC works just fine with my Z2K controller.
I isolated the case from EV chassis with plexaglass.

So... leakage across that IGBT cases to ground might be the cause of the
carnage that most DCPs had with Ot's new controller series.

So far so good  for my Fiero.

Madman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike & Paula Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:38 PM
Subject: 200V+ Input DC/DC Converter


> Has anyone looked at these little DC/DC converters by Astec?  p/n
AIH16C300
> and AIF40C300
> You can check www.newark.com and do a part number search to find spec
> sheets.
> These are 250V to 600V input and 16.6A @15V (for the H16C) and 40A @ 15V
fo
> the (F40C). Outputs are adjustable +/- 20% and can run parallel with 3%
> current share accuracy.  Price from Newark for the AIH16C300 is $242.15
and
> the AIF40C300 is $419.73 for single quantities.  How do these compare in
> price for what you guys running 192V or more are using?
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, AK.
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With my 20 dogs in the house Roomba gets full all the
time.
It gets full hair, before needing a recharge.
I wish they'd invent a way for it empty automatically
as well.


--- Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This is getting OT.  There are plenty of opinions on
> the web.  We had it for 2 weeks now.  Although it
> might not clean as well as the big ones on the first
> pass, it makes multiple passes all by itself and it
> goes into and under everywhere it could go on its
> own.
>  And, we don't have time to vaccum everyday, but the
> machine could.
> 
> It is similar to asking how long it takes to
> recharge
> an EV.  Well, most of the time, I just don't care. 
> It
> is not my time.  I just plug it in and it is full
> the
> next morning.  For Roomba, I just let it clean and
> when it is done, it is clean, and it is back at the
> home base charging.
> 
> I would not recommend it if you have a lot of pet
> hair
> or long carpet.  It might not last.  It is perfect
> for
> short carpet and hard floor.  It would actually run
> for 2 hours on a hard surface.
> 
> Ed Ang
> 
> --- paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >     Ok, how well does it clean the floor? More
> over,
> > will it suck up the dog??? :^)
> >   paul
> >   
> > > >It is an EV, but it doesn't carry people. Of
> > > course,
> > > >I am talking about iRobot's Roomba Discovery.
> > > >
> > > >We took the plunge and ordered a refurb one for
> > > only
> > > >$135. 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >             
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Photos
> >  Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add
> > photos, events, holidays, whatever.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John wrote:
I've been wondering about charger placement as well for my 86 Nissan King Cab conversion.

I seems there are 3 general placement locations, In the truck bed with the batteries, Engine Compartment, and passenger compartment. My charger is a PFC-30 and I now live in Western Mass where it gets fairly cold in the winter. Does this device need regular fiddling that would make a passenger compartment installation beneficial?

Yes, the PFC will need at least seasonal "fiddling" as you will have to adjust the voltage set point to try and compensate for average battery temperatures. Which gets tricky when New England weather brings 0 degree and 55 degree days within a one week time slot.

The passenger compartment is usually nice and dry, but bringing the high voltage cables inside is generally frowned upon for safety reasons. So putting the charger within a splash resistant box under the hood or inside a water proof but vented box in the bed would make sense.

If I make my AC to vehicle connection point in the front of the truck, are there drawbacks to running an AC line back to the charger in the bed?

I'd go for the old gas filler as the location of the AC inlet, but if you want to put it up front that isn't any problem. Just make sure the AC cord is mechanically protected as it runs back to wherever the charger ends up.



--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1997 Solectria PbA Force
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Check out the "Red Beastie", a 1995 Toyota with 40 flooded batteries in the bed. Before ending up in MA, it was out west in John Wayland's hands:
  http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/037.html

I've had problems with water getting into chargers under the hood, so what others have said about a separate box for the charger in back with the batteries could work well.


Mike & Paula Willmon wrote:
Any body thats done a pickup and put the batteries "in" the bed?

--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1997 Solectria PbA Force
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Isolating these should be fairly easy since they are so small. But at
~100W/cu. in. I'd sure need to add a good heat sink if I close it up in a
box.  These just look like the power module with no enclosure.  However the
16A (300W) version is only $242; half the cost of the DCP.  The 40A (600W)
version is $420, which is comparable in price to the DCP 300W unit. Hmmm...
maybe I'll try out this 16Amp module and add a parallel unit if needed.
Thanks
Mike,
Anchorage,AK

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rich Rudman
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 200V+ Input DC/DC Converter


Just about what the DCP dc/DC listed for

$450 for 300 watts from 96 to 450VDC
1/2  power from 48 to 96.

You should harden the ASTEC for weather abuse for sure.

My DCP DC/DC works just fine with my Z2K controller.
I isolated the case from EV chassis with plexaglass.

So... leakage across that IGBT cases to ground might be the cause of the
carnage that most DCPs had with Ot's new controller series.

So far so good  for my Fiero.

Madman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike & Paula Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:38 PM
Subject: 200V+ Input DC/DC Converter


> Has anyone looked at these little DC/DC converters by Astec?  p/n
AIH16C300
> and AIF40C300
> You can check www.newark.com and do a part number search to find spec
> sheets.
> These are 250V to 600V input and 16.6A @15V (for the H16C) and 40A @ 15V
fo
> the (F40C). Outputs are adjustable +/- 20% and can run parallel with 3%
> current share accuracy.  Price from Newark for the AIH16C300 is $242.15
and
> the AIF40C300 is $419.73 for single quantities.  How do these compare in
> price for what you guys running 192V or more are using?
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, AK.
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Red Beastie was my first inspiration to think little trucks could get
decent range :-D
Separate box in the back it'll be for me. That'll put the charger right by
the ~fuel~ door :-)
Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jim Coate
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 8:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Battery Box in the back of a Pickup


Check out the "Red Beastie", a 1995 Toyota with 40 flooded batteries in
the bed. Before ending up in MA, it was out west in John Wayland's hands:
   http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/037.html

I've had problems with water getting into chargers under the hood, so
what others have said about a separate box for the charger in back with
the batteries could work well.


Mike & Paula Willmon wrote:
> Any body thats done a pickup and put the batteries "in" the bed?

--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1997 Solectria PbA Force
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks much.  Just ordered one.

John

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:46:18 -0800 (PST), Edward Ang
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>It is from Amazon, but you can find out how to get the
>low price here.  A new one is only $40 more.
>
>http://www.dealsea.com/
>
>Ed Ang
>
>--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:05:08 -0800 (PST), Edward Ang
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> >It is an EV, but it doesn't carry people.  Of
>> course,
>> >I am talking about iRobot's Roomba Discovery.
>> >
>> >We took the plunge and ordered a refurb one for
>> only
>> >$135.  
>> 
>> OK, spill the beans.  Where?  Been wanting to play
>> with one of those.
>> 
>> John
>> ---
>> John De Armond
>> See my website for my current email address
>> http://www.johngsbbq.com
>> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little
>> minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
>> 
>> 
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
>http://mail.yahoo.com 
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The digital interface sounds cool!  I can imagine an
EVIL bus node temperature correcting the float voltage
when parked, then bumping up the voltage when driving.
 Too bad Newark says 999 day lead time for the bigger
one.  You could attach the "remote sense" leads at
your headlights so it will adjust it's voltage so that
the programmed voltage appears at the headlights
(compensates for voltage drop in the wiring to the
headlights).  I'm not sure what to use the
programmable current limit for (20% to 100%), unless
this was a part of a Lee-Hart style battery balancer
as well.  It even has a temperature monitor for it's
heat sink temp.  Before I was the first one to plunk
down that kind of cash for an EV application, I'd want
to read some app. notes to see what kind of input
filtering/conditioning circuitry it would want.

>From the data sheet:
"OVP, OCP, V Adj control with ALPTM
analog mode linear control, or through I2C bus
with digital mode control."

--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Just about what the DCP dc/DC listed for
> 
> $450 for 300 watts from 96 to 450VDC
> 1/2  power from 48 to 96.
> 
> You should harden the ASTEC for weather abuse for
> sure.
> 
> My DCP DC/DC works just fine with my Z2K controller.
> I isolated the case from EV chassis with plexaglass.
> 
> So... leakage across that IGBT cases to ground might
> be the cause of the
> carnage that most DCPs had with Ot's new controller
> series.
> 
> So far so good  for my Fiero.
> 
> Madman
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike & Paula Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:38 PM
> Subject: 200V+ Input DC/DC Converter
> 
> 
> > Has anyone looked at these little DC/DC converters
> by Astec?  p/n
> AIH16C300
> > and AIF40C300
> > You can check www.newark.com and do a part number
> search to find spec
> > sheets.
> > These are 250V to 600V input and 16.6A @15V (for
> the H16C) and 40A @ 15V
> fo
> > the (F40C). Outputs are adjustable +/- 20% and can
> run parallel with 3%
> > current share accuracy.  Price from Newark for the
> AIH16C300 is $242.15
> and
> > the AIF40C300 is $419.73 for single quantities. 
> How do these compare in
> > price for what you guys running 192V or more are
> using?
> >
> > Mike,
> > Anchorage, AK.
> >
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
  Hey Shawn, all
   
  Yeah you could say I was in freak mode all weekend.  Although I've been a 
list member here for awile I've had only one other race EVent to my belt and 
that was Woodburn last year, so I'm alot newer to this stuff then many might 
think.  I hate to admit it, but I spent the entire weekend hitting check mail 
and going to the BBB site preying for info.  Not only concerning my motor but 
how everyone had done.  Steve Clunn left a post about having problems and I was 
so hoping he would be able to race.
   
  My weekend had started with disappointing news some EV some non-related.  By 
Sunday I was a stark raving lunitic, looking for any info, good or bad!  Rod 
Hower posted about my half full cup posts and attitude, well I guess he's never 
seen me when one of my motors are out racing for the first time 8^ P
   
  Being I knew these guys were busy I didn't want to call.  By Sunday afternoon 
(my time) I couldn't stand it any more and sent Matt and Shawn a private email 
saying AWAAH! or something to that effect.  Matt called me up with a settle 
down Jim call, which was so badly needed I can't even begin to describe.  How 
do you racers do this again and again!!!  I'm gonna need a DR. to get me some 
Valuum or something for the next one, LMAO! I'm serious!
   
  I saw that Matt rode Orange Crush and not your son, did they have an age 
restriction??  Bummed me out and I'm hoping he wasn't bummed to bad, but I'm 
sure he was.  I was Jazzed to hear the school cars did good, and I was curious 
about the arcing on the dual 8's.  Was this a brush seat thing or were they 
trying to out zortch Tim's Woodburn run?? lol.
   
  I'm sorry to here Matt had an off nite as he is so close to getting into the 
100 MPH club, just had to suck working so hard and to not see the fruits for 
his efforts.  I didn't see anything about Shawn Lawless, was he able to make 
the event??  
   
  I know you got more to post and I wanted to thank you for getting this up so 
I can function this morning ;  )  Congrats on what sounds like a great first 
time event, I'm eagerly awaiting pics and additional posts, all I got to say is 
I hope you all were a bit more relaxed than I was.  I guess my new motto is: 
Hope for the best, worry till they test!!
  Cya
  Congrats to all, keep up the good work
   
  Jim Husted
  Hi-Torque Electric


                        
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- What is the curb weight of the 86 Astro Van Chip? They had 2.5 liter fours. They couldn't be much over 3000#s. LR>...... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: chevy astro conversion?


I think a Chevy Astro Minivan would make a fine conversion.

I'm a big Astro fan. I have two Astros, an '86 and a 2000. I customized the '86 a month after I bought it new and entered it in van shows on the East Coast. It won quite a few trophies and was featured in Truckin' magazine. I bought a white one because I originally had planned to paint a mural on it but decided to go with a monochromatic paint theme with the Euro look. So I had all the black trim on the van including the door handles custom painted white to match the rest of the van. The Euro look wasn't done on vans back then so the old school vanners didn't quite accept it because I didn't emblazen it with murals and go with the fake fur and panelling look. The van does have a custom wet bar and refrigerator in it but it is very Euro looking and modern inside.

The 2000 Astro I have is factory van conversion. It's a great van. I was really dissapointed when GM shut down the Astro plant in Baltimore. 2006 is the last model year for the van.

What does all this have to do with EV's?

Well, after 200,000 miles the transmission finally died in the '86 Astro and I've been thinking of electrifying it. Except I want to make it into an electric drag van. Art Morrison Industries has actually made rear subframes for the Astro to tub it out. So my plan is to have them build the subframe and lengthen it to accomodate a Warp 13 motor which would sit amidships behind the driver's seat. The Astro has tons of room under the floor for batteries so I was going to build racks on either side of the subframe for batteries.

I still want to paint a mural on it so I was thinking of some chrome looking type dragon with lightning bolts in the sky.

Chip Gribben









From: lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat Jan 21, 2006  2:44:45  AM US/Eastern
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: chevy astro conversion?


Thanks to Mike and Danny for their responses!

You got me thinking outside the box now...as gas is
still gas is still smog, etc...

I reckon in the time it takes us to complete the
conversion, i can do a little leg work and see if i
can't create some kind of EV support group here on the
island.  It seems there would be enough interested
people scattered about that if we all installed 240v
plugs, then no one would have to be too concerned
about range.  The grid is already in place, why not
use it?  I envision something like (here's the plug,
leave a few bucks in the jar, have a great day!)...and
while we're waiting on the charge we can sit around an
talk EVgeek with each other and work on our rigs.
:o))

mahalo for the inspiration...Lee


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm hooking up to parallel strings of traction batteries, as illustrated
below.  First, I want to make sure this is an acceptable way to connect
things, and if so, where is it recommended to connect to charger, which will
charge both strings at the same time.  I'm thinking the points A and B would
be the place.  Will that be okay with the precharge resistors always
connected?

+---------------- Breaker ---------------------------------------------+
|                                                                      |
+-- B- ~~~~ B+ -- Breaker ---+                                         |
                             |  A                                    B |
                             +--+ Contactor +--+ 1231C --+ Contactor +-+ 
                             |  |           |            |           | |
+-- B- ~~~~ B+ -- Breaker ---+  +-Precharge-+            +-Precharge-+ |
|                                                                      |
+---------------- Breaker ---------------------------------------------+

Thanks.

Bill Dennis

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bill, 

It is recommended that when you charge the batteries, they are disconnected 
from the main contactor and controller.  Also when the charging is completed, 
it disconnects from the batteries.

I find that when I charge the batteries which was connected to the control 
system, I had the charging voltage of over 230 volts on one side of the 
controller and motor.  Could read 230 volts from the motor terminals to the 
vehicle ground, which was the same ground of the charger. 

This also cause arcing from the commentator to the motor shaft which was 
tracking on brush dust. 

To prevent this, I install two contactors coming off the batteries, which are 
sometimes call safety contactors.  When I turn the ignition key to the on 
position, a relay turns on both contactors.   Also have two console switches 
and a big red control switch to kill all 12 volt power in case something 
happens. 

I also install a contactor between the battery charger leads and the batteries. 
 The contactor coil can be either control directly by 120 VAC using a 120 v 
coil or 12 VDC using a 12 v coil. 

To isolated the frame of the car from a AC ground, I install the battery 
charger in a fiberglass enclosure.  The charger is only ground, not the frame. 
Before I did this, I would have 230 charging volts from any battery terminal to 
the frame of the vehicle.  When I had the batteries in a aluminum box, I could 
see arcing from some batteries to the box, when I turn off the lights. 

To prevent this, I install the batteries in a epoxy coated fiber glass box. Now 
I get 0 volts from any one battery terminal to ground when everything is clean. 
 After charging the batteries for about a month, I will get about 0.01 to 0.10 
to the surfaces of the box, because of battery venting causing conductance 
tracking. 

Roland 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bill Dennis<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 
  Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:59 AM
  Subject: Where's the Charger Connect?


  I'm hooking up to parallel strings of traction batteries, as illustrated
  below.  First, I want to make sure this is an acceptable way to connect
  things, and if so, where is it recommended to connect to charger, which will
  charge both strings at the same time.  I'm thinking the points A and B would
  be the place.  Will that be okay with the precharge resistors always
  connected?

  +---------------- Breaker ---------------------------------------------+
  |                                                                      |
  +-- B- ~~~~ B+ -- Breaker ---+                                         |
                               |  A                                    B |
                               +--+ Contactor +--+ 1231C --+ Contactor +-+ 
                               |  |           |            |           | |
  +-- B- ~~~~ B+ -- Breaker ---+  +-Precharge-+            +-Precharge-+ |
  |                                                                      |
  +---------------- Breaker ---------------------------------------------+

  Thanks.

  Bill Dennis

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you referring to mechanically or electrically isolating the case?

I'm curious about whether the output is isolated from the input. If they
can be connected in parallel (I'm assuming this means parallel inputs as
well as outputs, to add power), does this imply that they have an isolated
output that would be appropriate for use with an Emeter?

  --chris



On 8:20:38 am 01/23/06 Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Isolating these should be fairly easy since they are so small. But at
> ~100W/cu. in. I'd sure need to add a good heat sink if I close it up
> in a box.  These just look like the power module with no enclosure.
> However the 16A (300W) version is only $242; half the cost of the
> DCP.  The 40A (600W) version is $420, which is comparable in price to
> the DCP 300W unit. Hmmm... maybe I'll try out this 16Amp module and
> add a parallel unit if needed. Thanks
> Mike,
> Anchorage,AK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Rich Rudman
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:42 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: 200V+ Input DC/DC Converter
>
>
> Just about what the DCP dc/DC listed for
>
> $450 for 300 watts from 96 to 450VDC
> 1/2  power from 48 to 96.
>
> You should harden the ASTEC for weather abuse for sure.
>
> My DCP DC/DC works just fine with my Z2K controller.
> I isolated the case from EV chassis with plexaglass.
>
> So... leakage across that IGBT cases to ground might be the cause of
> the carnage that most DCPs had with Ot's new controller series.
>
> So far so good  for my Fiero.
>
> Madman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike & Paula Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:38 PM
> Subject: 200V+ Input DC/DC Converter
>
>
> >  Has anyone looked at these little DC/DC converters by Astec?  p/n
> AIH16C300
> >  and AIF40C300
> >  You can check www.newark.com and do a part number search to find
> >  spec sheets.
> >  These are 250V to 600V input and 16.6A @15V (for the H16C) and 40A
> @ 15V fo
> >  the (F40C). Outputs are adjustable +/- 20% and can run parallel
> >  with 3% current share accuracy.  Price from Newark for the
> AIH16C300 is $242.15 and
> >  the AIF40C300 is $419.73 for single quantities.  How do these
> >  compare in price for what you guys running 192V or more are using?
> >
> >  Mike,
> >  Anchorage, AK.
> >
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another notable mention was that Brook, the owner of the Dragtimes.com
website came out on Friday night for the Drag Race. He hung out for a little
while asking questions and checking out the cars. I know he spent some time
with Matt on the Nissan, so I hope Matt will add more detail...

Brook commented that he thought the EV's having the top three spots on the
site was great and hopefully people will start really noticing.

Let's keep the voting going on Rod, Matt and John's cars!

Thanks,

Shawn M. Waggoner
www.batterybeach.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Shawn Waggoner
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery Beach Burnout Results and Summary


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> I'm hooking up to parallel strings of traction batteries...
> I want to make sure this is an acceptable way to connect things...
> where is it recommended to connect to charger...
> Will that be okay with the precharge resistors always connected?
> 
> +----------------Breaker---------------------------------------------+
> |                                                                    |
> +-- B- ~~~~ B+ --Breaker---+                                         |
>                            |  A                                    B |
>                            +--+-Contactor-+--+ 1231C --+-Contactor-+-+
>                            |  |           |            |           | |
> +-- B- ~~~~ B+ --Breaker---+  +-Precharge-+            +-Precharge-+ |
> |                                                                    |
> +----------------Breaker---------------------------------------------+

It will work, but it is a minimally acceptable way to do it. There are
some limitations, but they can be easily corrected.

I would gang the four circuit breakers together, so they turn off/on at
the same time. This operates the series contacts in each string
together, enhancing their voltage rating and the current that they can
break without damage.

You might think that you'd like to turn on just one or the other pack
separately. This is not likely to work out. If the two packs are at
different states of charge when you turn on the breakers, a very large
current will flow between them as the higher one attempts to instantly
bring the lower one up to the same state of charge. This high peak
current is hard on the breakers, and will probably cause them to
immediately trip right back off.

If your "precharge" component is nothing but a resistor, then you are
leaving your controller powered all the time, even during charging. This
is a bad idea. "Bumping" the accellerator allows the car to surge
forward, running off the energy stored in the controller's capacitors.
The peak voltage during charging can kill the controller. A non-isolated
charger exposes the controller to the peak transient voltage of the AC
line, which frequently exceeds 1000 volts. Since the motor is also
connected via the controller, it creates additional opportunities for
ground faults and high voltage breakdown.

One solution is to remove the precharge resistor from one contactor
(say, the negative contactor). Now, when the contactors are off, the
controller is off. The startup sequence is to first pull in the negative
contactor; this precharges the controller via the resistor across the
positive contactor. After a short time, pull in the positive contactor.
Make sure that BOTH contactors drop out at the same time. Since one side
of the controller and motor remain connected to the batteries, this
scheme works well if you have an isolated charger.

An additional refinement is needed if you use a non-isolated charger. In
this case, use a smaller switch or relay to connect the precharge
resistor(s) across the contactors only when the charger is disconnected
and you are ready to drive. When the contactors and this relay are off,
the controller is completely disconnected. The starting sequence is to
a) disconnect the charger, b) turn on the precharge relay (for example,
with the "start" position of the key switch), c) turn on the main
contactors.

You may want to add a dashboard light to indicate when the controller is
precharged. A plain old neon lamp (with its built-in series resistor) is
good for this. Wire it directly across the controller's B+ and B-
inputs, and it lights whenever the controller input voltage exceeds 60
volts.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
        -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am moving this week into a place without any grounding much like where I grew 
up. My charger specifically connects ground to the car but if I have no ground 
at the plug I am kind of defeating it am I not?
  I can only think of two options.
  Isolation transformer
  Ground the outlet(s) which is a long term goal.
  Are there any other practical ones I am missing? I am using a new Russco 120 
volt charger.
  Thanks,
  Mark Hastings

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dube put 6 under the rear seat.  His was an '85 I think.  It's on
the http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/014.html.
   I have an '87 also I am starting to convert.  What a piece of crappy
engineering the fuel injection on the '87 is.  It worked well when it
worked, but clogged really easily and costs too much to fix.  I've fixed
mine twice.  Love the car, so it is being converted.

> Stephen Paschke 
> Senior Consultant 
> Keane, Inc. 
> Office 303-607-2993 
> Cell 303-204-9280

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Adrian DeLeon
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 6:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 4+ batteries under Cabrio back seat?

I'm converting an '87 VW Cabrio - planning for 18 6V Trojans @108V. This

means having 2 batts under the rear seat. It looks like 4 or 6 batteries

will fit under the seat with a little extra effort. This would put 8 in

the "trunk", 4 under the seat, and 6 under the hood. Any downsides to
this?

My goal is to fit the control electronics inside sealed PVC boxes under

the hood. The only Cabrio I've found with under-seat batteries is Joseph

Vaughn-Perling's "ZAP" (www.socalev.com).

Adrian

.



**************************************************************
This message, including any attachments, contains confidential information 
intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law.  If 
you are not the intended recipient, please contact sender immediately by reply 
e-mail and destroy all copies.  You are hereby notified that any disclosure, 
copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on 
it, is strictly prohibited.
TIAA-CREF
**************************************************************

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:

> I would gang the four circuit breakers together

If the switches of all 4 breakers are mechanically tied together, and one of
the breakers trips, does it have the strength to pull all 4 switches at the
same time?

Thanks.

Bill Dennis

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:

> use a smaller switch or relay to connect the precharge
> resistor(s) across the contactors only when the charger is disconnected

Does "disconnected" mean unplugged from the AC outlet, or physically
disconnected from the battery packs as well? 

Thanks.

Bill Dennis

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw that a few weeks ago (linked to from www.digg.com ) and it is
extremely impressive. I think they checked it out at www.exn.net (Discovery
Channel Canada) as well. www.exn.net also has a test drive of the Ellica EV,
and an air powered car from France in their video section.

-Mike

On 1/22/06, Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This just got sent to me and I thought it should get passed on to the
> group. The ultimate in high-speed electric vehicles! 312 MPH and
> touching nothing but air. Whee!
>
> >  > This link presents video movie of Japan's Maglev:
> >>
> >>
> ><
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2926400396387878713&q=train+linear
> >
> >>
> >>  The description:
> >>  Riding Japan's Superconducting Maglev "Linear Motor Car"
> >  > Train at 502 kilometers/hour (about 300 mph) on a beautiful day
> >at JR Railway
> >  > Technical Research Institute's Yamanashi Maglev Test Line.
>
> --
>
>
>                                    Auf wiedersehen!
>
>   ______________________________________________________
>   "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
>
>   "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
>   of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
>   women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
>
>   "..No."
>
>   "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
>
>                                    -Real Genius
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Had a call from a friend who was listening. Unfortunately we were watching the SeaHawks win their way into the Super Bowl...

I also thought it would be EASY to listen to an Archive recording of the interview.

Any one KNOW their way round the Air America Site, who could help find an archive version of the interview ???
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
Day:  206 850-8535
Eve:  206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web:     http://www.seattleeva.org

--- End Message ---

Reply via email to