EV Digest 5126
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Acceleration Defined
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Which Trojan Battery Posts are good for EVs, and which ones are bad?
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: accessories plow, winch, bucket, fork lift?
by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) The Imp at the Beach
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) A new EV Vacuum pump? (Definitely thinking out of the box....)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Contactor Coils in Series
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) How to Convert - For fun and Profit - Without getting Sued
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Acceleration Defined
by MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: LawSuits
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Plenty of room for Joule Injected improvement - Part 2
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Which Trojan Battery Posts are good for EVs, and which ones are bad?
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) main contactor wiring
by "steve ollerton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: main contactor wiring
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Contactor Coils in Series
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Advice on relay coils
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Rudman wrote:
> Somebody want to cut me a check for 5 Mill, and a year to make it happen????
I figure with your Monster Garage experience; after you get the check,
you could have it at the track in a week. ;) Would you use Goldie or
the Fiero for this?
I could ask Billy Gates or Google.org to cut you a check for your
efforts. Though they seem to just want to keep their money stowed
away in a bank account so they can appear in those top 100 lists of
the richest people year after year.... It might help out the economy
if they'd put some money into it..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, so maybe I've been lucky.
T875's with LPT always used the torque wrench, check and retorqued about
once a month, 16,000 miles, about a year, Normal amp less than 200,
occasional draw 400 amps for maybe 5 seconds going up a hill, never had
any problems.
T890 with LPT, same profile, 11,500 miles (8 months) no problems.
Hoping to get at least 18,000 out of the T890's. If I ever have
terminal issues, I'll post to the group.
Lynn Adams
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:53 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Which Trojan Battery Posts are good for EVs, and which ones
are bad?
Hello Steven,
The LPT - Low Profile Terminal which came with my T-145's were the worst
ones I have used. The head of a standard stainless steel
bolt was
only embedded only 1/16 of a inch below the surface which
many
pull out with there recommended 95-105 inch pounds of
torque.
The AP - Standard Automotive post is better than most on the list.
When
using a plated brass battery post connector on this post,
you will
get shrink back, meaning that the lead surface will
shrink back
from the surface of the battery connector. This is
normal after
initial installation, where you should check the torque
after driving
about 5 miles.
Also after years of usage, the top of the post will start
to pucker up
causing a mushroom effect.
The LT - You need a saddle washers that will wrap around this
terminal,
otherwise it will flatten and squeeze out of shape.
The UT - I used these once which did not last one day. Again the
standard
bolt squeeze and flatten this type of terminal.
The BWNT - I am using the type of terminal on by 12 volt deep cycle
accessory battery where I need four cable hookups. I
using a
standard cable lug fasten only by top studs. Can
torque these
to over 100 in.lbs. with no effects on the lead post.
The WNT - Is the best one I have used so far. I modified the LPT
types on
my T-145's by installing positive size post only, but
leaving the
the stud in. Install gold plated brass standard
battery post
connectors and also install a stainless steel washer,
lockwasher
and nut on the stud to put downward pressure on the
battery
post and battery connector.
The BTN - I do not know what the thread pad is made out of, in a
Trojan
battery, but this would be better than the Stud
Terminal
(STUD). I had stud ones break off, where the bolt
type is
easily to fix.
If the threaded bolt hole is lead, than it may strip
out easiler
than some other metal.
Some specialty batteries have a brass threaded pad
for a bolt
which may be the best one yet.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Ciciora<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 8:31 AM
Subject: Which Trojan Battery Posts are good for EVs, and which ones
are bad?
Anyone willing to comment on the strengths and
weaknesses of the different battery posts that Trojan
offers on their floddies? Below is a link showing
pictures of the different ones.
Thanks,
Steven Ciciora
http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/TerminalsDiagram.aspx<http://www.
trojan-battery.com/Products/TerminalsDiagram.aspx>
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--- Begin Message ---
You could probably rig one up that would work with 120v or less. Couple
a standard PTO to a 20hp electric motor. Or it may be easier to drive a
hydraulic pump directly, if you don't need too much versatility.
Scrounge parts from a forklift, and a small backhoe. I rented one of
those small backhoes and it had a small 2 or 3 cylinder diesel that I
think was rated at 14hp. It had a small bucket, probably 8 or 10 inches
wide. It didn't do well in clay and it dug about 5 feet deep.
Hopefully you can get some idea of what may be possible from my
description.
I would look for an old tractor with a front bucket if I were you. Add
some forklift bars to the bucket and you have a log carrier/lifter. You
can load 1 or 2 logs, depending on size, drive over to the wall and roll
them right on to the wall. You could even make the tractor electric, if
that is your idea. I don't think a small truck frame and suspension
could handle the weight and still be straight. These lift attachments
are very heavy themselves.
> Stephen Paschke
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of mike golub
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: accessories plow, winch, bucket, fork lift?
Could you run a PTO off 120 volts DC?
I guess drive to the location you want with your ev.
Turn off the car, and then turn on the PTO?
--- "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have seen a small bucket (backhoe) on the back of
> a small (1 ton)
> utility truck.
>
> A PTO (Power Take Off, I believe) is just a drive
> shaft end which you
> can attach accessories too. You couldn't run an
> electric PTO off 12
> volts to dig with.
>
> > Stephen Paschke
> > Senior Consultant
> > Keane, Inc.
> > Office 303-607-2993
> > Cell 303-204-9280
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:30 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: accessories plow, winch, bucket, fork lift?
>
> Hello
>
>
> I working on my 4x4 1986 Toyota pick-up, and realize
> I
> could mount a plow on it.
>
> What I was really wondering if anyone ever hooked up
> a
> bucket or a fork lift to the front of a vehicle?
> Maybe
> a PTO whatever that is?
>
> Would you just run it off your 12volt battery or
> would
> there be any advantage to run it off the 120vdc?
>
> I'm building a log structure this summer, and I
> wanted
> to move some logs around.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everybody,
It was great to have a Florida EVent. It was a huge effort by Shawn
Waggoner and his co-conspirators, Matt Graham and Lowell Simmons. I hope
they enjoyed it as much as the rest of us did.
ProEV will be posting a detailed race report eventually<g>. Our
night video was worthless but we got lots of interesting raw data. Until
then, here are some of the highlights.
The image that sticks in my mind from the Friday night drags was the Matt's
black Nissan lined up against Lowell's Black Porsche. These cars looked
serious. Style points for Lowell for that intimidating burn-out. The sparks
coming out from beneath the car had the crowd on their feet (and the rest of
us going, "ohh, that can't be good"). No wonder Matt red lighted<G>.
Matt's car is gorgeous. Lots of effort put in to make the installation
clean. My favorite view: Through the open hood. Plexiglas shield over the
battery tops with Rudman regs flashing. Zilla straight ahead and all the
wiring bundled. Least favorite view: The rear of the 240SX in the other lane
as it pulls away when I was racing against it<G>.
The Show and Shine went by too quickly. I didn't get a chance to talk with
everyone I had wanted to speak with. Next time I might have to show up on
time.
This was my first opportunity to help set up an autocross and it was an
interesting experience. Safety considerations dictate the course outline. In
our oval roadway, the side away from the staging area had to be the fastest.
Within this outline we tried to set up a course that offered the drivers a
choice of lines. For example, Lowell set up a very wide starting gate. If
you staged your car all the way to the outside, the immediate sharp left
hand turn required less lock and could be run at greater speed. Autocross
should be a mental challenge as well as physical.
The rules were every person got 6 runs. Best time wins. Knock a cone out of
it's box adds 3 seconds to your time.
I think Steve Clunn was the first one to run. With all that torque it was
easy to tell when he was on the throttle-the rear wheels would smoke.
Charles Whalen's RAV4 was a big hit. He let different people run it through
the course and others were jumping in as passengers.
The High School teams were the most serious competitors. The Voltsdragon,
Sweetheart and the 911 ran hard. I did a 30 second first run and then
watched as they worked to beat it. Their cars did not have the power of the
Imp but you could watch the brake lights and tell that they were carrying
their momentum through the corners. Harrison Mohn turned a 29.24 in the
Shenandoah's Datsun 240Z and it was time for me to make a second run.
A 28 second run put the Imp back on top. I watched for a little longer
before I realized it was getting late and if I was going to drive the
Electric Imp from the track, I better get it on charge. I made an error on
my next run, turning a 26 but knocking down a cone. I back off a little and
turned a clean 26.68. This left me with two unused runs in case anyone
threatened my time. I put the Electric Imp on charge.
The high school teams seem to have a great rule that anybody who works on
the car should have a chance to drive. The cars kept going and going as each
driver took their laps. Full credit to Ricky Lewis and his sons Tim and Chad
from
Northeast Guilford High School and Byron Grove-Humphries and the Shenandoah
Valley Governor's School team (including the parents). Everybody was
enthusiastic,
knowledgeable and helpful. From running the timing equipment to picking up
the cones at
the end of the evening.
An excellent weekend!
Cliff Rassweiler
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks, an intensive weekend of Babycare 101 may have resulted in an E-piphany.
While we were admiring a friend's fine collection of lactation accessories, I
was handed an interesting device. It's a lightweight, impact-resistant,
extremely quiet, adjustable speed, piston-action, 12 volt vacuum pump that
sells for about the same price as the GM pump did, and is commonly available as
a used item on Ebay for much less. Yes, my friends, I propose to retask a
breast pump for EV power braking applications! The Karmann Eclectric won't
have power brakes, so I don't want to $pend a lot of effort on this one yet,
but thought I'd toss the idea out. Has anyone worked from this angle yet?
Technical specs on the pumps are hard to find, but here's one from a similar
product by Medela, a leading mfr.. It's a 12V suction pump for home medical
use that makes "up to 550 mm Hg vacuum and 27 Ipm flow".
Cheers,
Jay Donnaway
www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bought a couple of those 56V-coil contactors a few months ago. Would it
work to hook them up with their coils in series, activated simultaneously by
a third relay, like this:
Pack + -----| |------ Controller+
|
+---------////----+
56V Coil | +----------------- 12V+
| |
+-- \
\ 12V Coil
+-- \
| |
| +----------------- 12V-
56V Coil |
+---------////----+
|
Pack - -----| |------ Controller-
Also, my pack voltage ranges from 148V Open Circuit, to 98V at 100% DOD.
The 56V coils draw about .3A each, with around 186 Ohms. Can they be run
with the high voltage (148V) without burning out, or it is best to insert a
resistor in series with the coils?
For example, a 100-Ohm 20-watt resistor? That would drop the voltage down
to 58V across each coil when the pack was full, and around 39V across each
coil when the pack was totally empty. Since the coils are spec'ed to
energize all the way down to 37V, and since I'll rarely go to 100% DOD
anyway, this seems like it would be okay.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Word, bruthah. Exact same thing happened to me. Just substitute "gym" for
restaurant, "cable" for soup, and everything else is pretty much the same-
except out here in CA the inscos automatically spit out 20K just to make
these people go away.
I got cross-complained against but was later dropped from the suit when they
"discovered" that they didn't want to hear what I had to say.
Though absolved of any liability, they still cancelled my insurance. Now
they want TWENTY times what I was paying last year.
Lots of service-type folks out here are going the NEW self-insured route:
Put everything you own into a trust, and run commando. The lawyers follow
the money. If you have no attachable assets they go away.
This only works if you're self-employed.
But, of course, all we have is anecdotal evidence of any problem, and all of
my attorney friends assure me the system works...for them:^O
I'm pretty sure we can do better than this. I read that in Finland if you go
for ten years without an accident, they give you auto insurance for free...
Marv
Culver City, CA
> From: Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:28:22 -0500
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: How to Convert - For fun and Profit - Without getting Sued
>
> (since some folks can't follow quoting conventions, I can't figure who
> to attribute this to so I won't.)
>
> Interesting to watch opinions formed and expressed by people who've
> probably never been any closer to small business than a paycheck.
>
> Here's my own experience with the "tort system". A waitress spilled
> some soup. She put out the yellow "wet floor" sign and went to get a
> mop. A group of customers was coming in so she warned them about the
> soup. One customer walked over to the soup, tested it with one toe
> and then took an intentional flop. He got up without comment, sat
> down with the others and ate his meal without incident.
>
> Several weeks later I was served with a "slip and fall" (the most
> common type of pedestrian insurance fraud) suit. A few hours later
> (just enough time for the process server to return), I got a call from
> the lawyer wanting to know who my insurance carrier was. I didn't
> tell him and instead took his name and called my carrier.
>
> Unfortunately for their plan, I had a surveillance camera with a great
> view of the scene and a high quality recording. I'd installed this
> system to guard against just this sort of thing (at over $1k). End of
> story, right?
>
> Wrong. An investigator for the insurance company determined that this
> guy had set this up to cover for a recreational fall he'd had a few
> days earlier. He'd been looking for someone to pay his medical bills
> and I was the first one he found.
>
> Even with the investigator's report AND my video tape, the insurance
> company paid out over $10k in medical reimbursements and then promptly
> cancelled my policy. Finding replacement insurance once I'd suffered
> a loss was very difficult and my premium more than doubled.
>
> So, let's total the costs:
>
> $1k Surveillance system as a defense against this kind of fraud
> 1,500 My attorney's fees to keep an eye on the insurance company
> 2,500 per year for at least 3 years - increased insurance premiums.
>
> $5,000 bux out of my pocket the first year over and above the normal
> (exorbitant) insurance premiums. Not to mention all the time I spent
> dealing with this instead of taking care of my business.
>
> Not many folks can afford to plunk down $5k out of pocket, and that's
> for a supposedly sure-fire win for the good guys. Without the
> insurance it would have been many times that. My attorney would have
> wanted between $5 and $10k as a retainer to defend such a suit had I
> not had insurance. The exposure would have been open-ended.
>
> This legal fiction of "joint and several liability" means that anyone
> who has touched a defective product or service can be sued. Lawyers
> spray suits in all directions, hoping one sticks to a deep pocket.
> Parts suppliers have been sued because they supplied perfectly good
> parts to a manufacturer whose product allegedly harmed someone.
>
> Anyone is a fool today who has any contact with the public and who
> doesn't have insurance. I have to admit that in the beginning I ran
> my restaurant "bare". I was extremely lucky that I'd purchased a
> policy not 6 months before this incident.
>
> A few other facts people should know when making the decision to go
> bare. First, a judgment can't be bankrupted out of. Attorneys can
> take everything you earn or have over a subsistence allowance. In the
> case of a multi-million judgment, that will be the rest of your life.
> Second, a corporation does not shield you if the corp is "closely
> held" a legal term of art. The lawyer simply sues the corp and you
> personally and if there are fewer than some number of stockholders
> that varies by state, the personal suit sticks. Called "piercing the
> corporate veil".
>
> Third, if some irresponsible, barely literate jury makes some crazy
> multi-million dollar award against you, YOU have to post a bond equal
> to half that award (in TN at least) before you can appeal. The civil
> system isn't like the criminal system and defendants have no presumed
> rights. The bond is to protect the plaintiff's interests in case you
> lose the appeal. Effectively for the small businessman, what the jury
> says sticks.
>
> John
>
>> Thanks for the link. It's very informative - not least in the fact that all
>> the "burglar sues after cutting hand on broken glass" type of lawsuit stories
>> are identified as being "fabricated." Out of the last
>> three years of "Awards" all but one of the listed lawsuits involve a company
>> suing an individual or an injury lawsuit that has not resulted in any award
>> to the plaintiff - the sole exception is the woman
>> who was accidentally locked in a storage locker for 63 days, was rescued
>> weighing 83 pounds, and was awarded $100,000. I don't know any of the facts
>> behind that one, but it's certainly not going
>> to make me lose any sleep.
>>
>> And that's from a source that is actively looking for the worst litigation
>> horror stories it can find.
>>
>> Like I said - frivolous litigation is not a real problem - it's the
>> "gen-on-a-wheel" of the legal system. But the possibility of serious loss
>> and injury is, which is why dealing with that possibility shouldn't be
>> ignored.
>>
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But just think of the operating cost savings. Presumably you wouldn't have to
rewind a motor(s) after every run. And you have verry few complex moving parts
that would be easier to replace and/or maintain. And you should be able to
get more than several cycles off the batteries so replacing the 1/4 million $$
pack every couple years could be way cheaper than buying fuel. And the one the
we all know, electricity is cheap, especially compared to nitromethane.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:49 am
Subject: Re: Acceleration Defined
To: [email protected]
> I hear mid 5s are doable IF...
> you have the best batteries made and a very tight motor.
> Meaning making max power and still staying over %80 efficient
> Watts to shaft
> Hp.
>
> This would take a Super conducting AC motor, flux vector control,
> at about
> 5000 amps a phase. About 480 full load battery volts, or 600
> nominal with
> about a 1/4 million Bucks of the best Lions out there.
>
> STill this is only a couple Million, The top Fuel guys burn that
> in a couple
> of Weeks.
>
> So..... it's doable
>
> Somebody want to cut me a check for 5 Mill, and a year to make it
> happen????
> Madman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike & Paula Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 8:57 PM
> Subject: RE: Acceleration Defined
>
>
> > >>It would be exiting if those race cars could run any engine
> combo they
> > wanted..
> >
> >
> > what, like quad 9" and 6000 Amp LSP on rails? I guess I should
> look since
> my
> > interest is piqued, what times are the electric non-street guys
> running?>
> > Maybe some math on energy density calculations are in order to
> see what
> the
> > possibility is.
> > F=ma, right? :-D
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:17 PM 1/25/2006, Marvin Campbell wrote:
Word, bruthah. Exact same thing happened to me. Just substitute "gym" for
restaurant, "cable" for soup, and everything else is pretty much the same-
except out here in CA the inscos automatically spit out 20K just to make
these people go away.
Guys, how about submitting these to the "True Stella Awards" people
at http://www.thisistrue.com
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
(continued from Part 1)
Okay, Lowell has expanded on my admittedly incomplete account of my first
run, and Jim has hinted of some "warranty ratings" related to my car, so
here's the rest of the story. I couldn't bring myself to put the story out
in three parts, so this one's an epic narrative! I'm serious! This one is
long!
I had just completed my second disappointing run of Joule Injected in series
mode only. Without the higher voltage to the motors in parallel, the car
would never get close to the 100 mph mark. On the way back to the pits, I'm
more determined than ever to find out what's holding the car back. So, back
in the pits I hook up the trusty PFC-20 and let the pack pull the maximum
amps out of it at over 300 volts, then pull out the laptop and dive into the
data again. I keep wanting to tie the problem back to the issue I had the
week before with the parallel contactors not locking in. However, the Zilla
isn't even showing the attempt to turn on those contactors, and there's no
characteristic "hunt for second gear" as there was before when the
contactors wouldn't respond. The only explanation seems to be that somehow
the car is not meeting the criteria for the Zilla to shift into parallel,
and the only variable that seems likely is the pot value. But when I check
the data, the pot values are meeting the definition of "full throttle", at
least as I understand it to be. I took a shot and left a message for Otmar
on his voice mail.
Still no closer to a definitive explanation, the regulators start blinking
away happily on most of Joule Injected's big 300 volt pack. It's 1 AM at
this point, and if I'm going to get another run in, I need to get in line
immediately. I manage to pull in line just as they're picking up the cones
between each of the lanes. Mine will be one of the last runs of the night
(okay, early morning) and I'm thinking a properly executed manual shift to
parallel mode will definitely get the car to 100 mph.
I have a couple minutes as they run the cars ahead of me. The laptop is on
and I'm doing a last minute check of a few comparative values between runs.
I notice that all my previous good runs had converted pot values of around
225 at full throttle. My ones from this day were all around 200-207. Then I
remembered that one of the seemingly insignificant things I had done the day
before was to tighten up the two bolts that hold down the accelerator pedal
assembly. They weren't even finger tight before I "fixed" it, and maybe that
slop may have allowed greater travel of the cable to the pot box! I pop the
hood and jump out of the car. There's plenty of travel left on the cable
assembly so I move the adjusting nuts to allow the pot box arm to reach a
little farther in its throw position.
By the time I shut the hood and get my helmet back on there's no one in
front of me and it's time to get up there and stage. Lowell's getting pushed
off the track after his unfortunate transaxle-busting event so I pull into
the other lane for a solo run. I've got the series motor current turned down
a bit, so I go around the water box, opting not to do a burnout at all. The
track is sticky enough that the tires should hold on the reduced current
launch. With the fairly quick automatic shift to parallel, belting out 2000
amps, it should be enough to hit 100 mph. Well, the launch goes just fine
with a decent 1.9 second 60' time, but my reasoning was flawed on the
acclerator position and the car never made the shift into parallel. The last
run of the night and I'd missed the opportunity to put Joule Injected into
the 100 mph club for the Battery Beach Burnout drags!
Back at the pits, I got a call back from none other than Otmar, all the way
from Oregon. Although it was too late to do much at this point, it's a
testament to his dedication to his customers that he got right back to me as
soon as retrieved his voice mail that night. I told him I just finished the
last run of the night and gave him the rundown on the events of the evening.
We agreed to discuss it and review the data the next morning, as I needed to
get back to the group, where Shawn was making closing remarks on the night
and discussing preparations for the next day's events.
The next morning, Otmar and I discuss the data that I pulled off two of my
runs. He recognizes that the duty cycle is never hitting 100%, a requirement
for the shift to parallel. Instead, my duty cycle values are right around
97% -- so close!! It still seems like the pot value may be to blame, even
though it appears to be in the range, satisfying the criteria for 100%
throttle. At the Show and Shine event, in between conversations with
everyone checking out the car, I check the pot resistance. Disconnected from
the Hairball, with the pedal fully depressed, I'm only getting 4.3 k Ohms.
Something is just not making sense! This is far from the minimum 4.7 k
required for full throttle. But the car's been running perfectly for weeks
up until the day before. I go ahead and adjust it further to hit about 4.9 k
at maximum travel, but at this point I'm seriously thinking I've got a pot
with some issues.
It's not until about 6PM that I get a chance to take the car out for a
little test and tune of my own out on Beeline Highway outside of Moroso.
It's a four lane highway with not a car in sight, so I open it up after
taking the car up to about 40 mph. Still no shift to parallel. At this point
in the story I can just hear John Wayland saying, "Would you just throw the
darn parallel switch manually and end this story on a good note!!!" Of
course that's exactly what I do after pulling off to the side to turn off
the option for automatic shifting. On my way back to the entrance into
Moroso, I'm going about 40 mph when I throw the toggle to parallel mode.
After all those disappointing runs, it was almost like I had forgotten how
great it feels to get thrown back into the seat as the car rockets forward!
With the Zilla cranking out 2000 amps at around 110 volts, a value that is
rapidly increasing as the current drops off and motor RPM increases, I'm
well in excess of 70 mph in mere seconds. You can bet I was wearing that EV
grin again, and I was ready to make another run down the track!
I pull back into Moroso and back to the pits for a solid charge and get to
watch some of the incredible autocross action that's been going on. What a
show they all put on! (Thank you Cliff for just posting about this!) Anyway,
the PFC-20 is rapidly bringing the pack up when suddenly the red LEDs on all
the regulators go out! I run to the back of the car and recognize the
distinct odor of toasted electronics coming from my beloved charger! It's
funny how little of a concern this was for me at the time. You see, I knew I
had enough of a charge to hit the milestone 100 mph mark. I also knew that
my baby would soon be in good hands back at the Madman Lab at Manzanita
Micro. In fact, I was already thinking about an upgrade to a PFC-30 before I
had the hood shut!
I leap into the car and head off to the drag strip. The track coordinator
tells me to pull into lane six -- the only empty lane out of 12! Man, were
they good to us! As I pull up to the front, Charles Whalen and his wife are
passing by on their way back to the autocross area. "You're running the car
right now?!! We're staying here for this!" They head over to the stands for
a better view of the track as I excitedly wait for the signal from the track
coordinator. I can't even see him through all the dew on every window. This
is fairly common at nights here, since all the humidity in the Florida air
just drops out onto everything as the night cools off. I'm furiously wiping
down the windows from the inside and working the wipers to try to get a
clear view up front. That's when he gives me the signal. I jam my helmet on
and head for the water box. I clamp down on the brakes and light up the
tires a bit, but not too much. I'm worried a little about not having quite a
full charge and don't want to use up too much of my precious voltage.
I creep forward to the staging line. Just like Steve Clunn wrote in his last
post, it seems like time stands still when you're up there. As I get closer
to the pre-stage line, it's eerily quiet, probably because my mind is
shutting out nearly all of the background noise. The one noise you can
distinctly recognize as you pull up to the line in an EV is the crackling of
the tires as they pop away from the sticky track. I see the pre-stage light
come on as I break the first beam. I place my hand on the parallel mode
toggle switch, leaning forward in my seat just to reach it on the dash. I
creep forward just until the second, or "staged" light comes on. The lights
come down the tree and I jam on the accelerator! As 1500 amps race through
the motors the car hurtles forward for a moment. Just then the tires let
loose and the back end of the car starts to swing out! Or maybe it's
possible that with only one hand on the wheel, the force of my body getting
slammed back into the seat has caused me to turn the steering wheel. Either
way, I'm now pointing towards the barrier between the tracks! My right hand
flies back to the wheel to help compensate, the whole time my foot has the
accelerator floored. I get the car back on a path straight down the track
and a full second or two later I remember to reach for the toggle switch.
I'm fully an eighth mile down the track before the switch is thrown and the
car rears up with renewed life in parallel mode. I already know I've missed
the mark again, but it feels so good to be flying down that track again at a
respectable speed!
Sure enough, I fly through the quarter mile in 14.462 seconds at only 95.06
mph. I remember how crushing that was at the time, but looking back on it,
it really was quite an adventure! On my way back to the pits, Charles Whalen
and his wife were cheering me on like I had just gone *200* mph! I got back
to the autocross area and pulled up as Shawn was jogging over to meet me. I
gave him the bad news, but then jumped out of the car and told him to take
the car out for a little autocross action! Shawn has been involved with this
project from Day 1, and has helped immeasurably with the welding and wiring.
I figured I owed him a little time on the autocross track for all his
troubles, and he figured he owed his wife a ride in it for putting up with
him through all the stress of coordinating the race! Christina was too
preoccupied with filling out all the award certificates, so she didn't ride
along, but Shawn got a couple shots at the autocross track. Of course,
lumbering around with 2250 pounds of full-bodied car and another 1000 pounds
of batteries, he didn't have a shot at taking anything away from Cliff's
beautifully done Imp or any of the high school cars!
So, I didn't reach my goal for the event, but it is only a matter of time
before that happens. It turns out a couple of capacitors let loose in the
PFC-20, and it is already on its way back to the capable hands of Rich
Rudman. Since it currently takes me 2 days to charge up each of the 25
batteries individually, I don't think I'll be making it back to the track
until I've got my charger back!
Of course I wish all of this could have ended differently on a brighter
note, but that, apparently, is a story for another day. . .
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
http://www.jouleinjected.com
Hobe Sound, FL
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--- Begin Message ---
The BTN<<<
I saw these at the last IBEX show. It is brass with a threaded hole. Can't
tell you how deep it was though. I was told they came from the Trojan
California plant where (in California) manufactured product cannot have any
exposed lead, thus the brass. I would like to try these but am waiting to
see what others think.
Mark Grasser
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: Which Trojan Battery Posts are good for EVs, and which ones are
bad?
Hello Steven,
The LPT - Low Profile Terminal which came with my T-145's were the worst
ones I have used. The head of a standard stainless steel
bolt was
only embedded only 1/16 of a inch below the surface which
many
pull out with there recommended 95-105 inch pounds of torque.
The AP - Standard Automotive post is better than most on the list. When
using a plated brass battery post connector on this post,
you will
get shrink back, meaning that the lead surface will shrink
back
from the surface of the battery connector. This is normal
after
initial installation, where you should check the torque
after driving
about 5 miles.
Also after years of usage, the top of the post will start to
pucker up
causing a mushroom effect.
The LT - You need a saddle washers that will wrap around this terminal,
otherwise it will flatten and squeeze out of shape.
The UT - I used these once which did not last one day. Again the
standard
bolt squeeze and flatten this type of terminal.
The BWNT - I am using the type of terminal on by 12 volt deep cycle
accessory battery where I need four cable hookups. I
using a
standard cable lug fasten only by top studs. Can torque
these
to over 100 in.lbs. with no effects on the lead post.
The WNT - Is the best one I have used so far. I modified the LPT types
on
my T-145's by installing positive size post only, but
leaving the
the stud in. Install gold plated brass standard battery
post
connectors and also install a stainless steel washer,
lockwasher
and nut on the stud to put downward pressure on the
battery
post and battery connector.
The BTN - I do not know what the thread pad is made out of, in a
Trojan
battery, but this would be better than the Stud
Terminal
(STUD). I had stud ones break off, where the bolt
type is
easily to fix.
If the threaded bolt hole is lead, than it may strip
out easiler
than some other metal.
Some specialty batteries have a brass threaded pad for
a bolt
which may be the best one yet.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Ciciora<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 8:31 AM
Subject: Which Trojan Battery Posts are good for EVs, and which ones are
bad?
Anyone willing to comment on the strengths and
weaknesses of the different battery posts that Trojan
offers on their floddies? Below is a link showing
pictures of the different ones.
Thanks,
Steven Ciciora
http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/TerminalsDiagram.aspx<http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/TerminalsDiagram.aspx>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks
I note from the Curtis wiring diagrams available that they have the throttle
pot microswitch wired to the main contactor and the Curtis . Surely this
means when you take your foot off the gas your main contactor switches off
even when free wheeling. Having the main contactor repeatedly clicking on
and off doesn't sound very good for it. I can understand the Curtis being
wired to it for electronic switching purposes. Any thoughts? As you may have
gathered I do not have regen on my EV.
My idea was to have the main contactor wired to the ignition so while the
key is in and turned the main power is on. Correct?
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The only issue is that is makes noise as far as I know. It may shorten the life
of the contactors by some tiny amount but they aren't actually switching any
current because the controller is already not pulling any. It can be a loud
click/clack and some people hate it. I on the other hand find it reassuring
that I know my contactor is working and there is no power to my controller.
My First EV was wired this way and I'm actually putting a second contactor in
my "New" truck and will be making the positive contactor on/off with the potbox
and the negative on/off with the switch.
Mark Hastings
steve ollerton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi folks
I note from the Curtis wiring diagrams available that they have the throttle
pot microswitch wired to the main contactor and the Curtis . Surely this
means when you take your foot off the gas your main contactor switches off
even when free wheeling. Having the main contactor repeatedly clicking on
and off doesn't sound very good for it. I can understand the Curtis being
wired to it for electronic switching purposes. Any thoughts? As you may have
gathered I do not have regen on my EV.
My idea was to have the main contactor wired to the ignition so while the
key is in and turned the main power is on. Correct?
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I bought a couple of those 56V-coil contactors a few months
> ago. Would it work to hook them up with their coils in
> series, activated simultaneously by a third relay
> Also, my pack voltage ranges from 148V Open Circuit, to 98V
> at 100% DOD. The 56V coils draw about .3A each, with around
> 186 Ohms. Can they be run with the high voltage (148V)
> without burning out, or it is best to insert a resistor in
> series with the coils?
>
> For example, a 100-Ohm 20-watt resistor? That would drop the
> voltage down to 58V across each coil when the pack was full,
> and around 39V across each coil when the pack was totally
> empty. Since the coils are spec'ed to energize all the way
> down to 37V, and since I'll rarely go to 100% DOD anyway,
> this seems like it would be okay.
While the resistor approach is simple, I think it would be nicer to not
burn up all that power as heat. You could use a wide-range input
wall-wart with 48VDC output to give you an appropriate voltage bus to
power the contactors from.
For instance, something like the ASTEC DAS60-480
<http://www.astecpower.com/products/datasheets/Externals/DAS60-08.09.03.
pdf> takes 90-264VAC input and delivers 48VDC 60W output. They are
available new from Newark for about $55, but Newark's site quotes an
89-day lead time. You might easily find an appropriate supply cheaper
surplus or on E-bay since 48VDC is common in telecommunications.
At 48VDC each of your coils would consume about 12W, which corresponds
to about 0.2A or less from a 140VDC pack to run a pair in this way, and
you don't have to worry about the coil voltage varying as the pack
discharges.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My charger has a burned out relay that is switched ( I guess as a safety
measure) by 24volts A.C.
The only similar relays I can find have 24volt DC rated coils.
Does anyone know if this just means that they have a diode in series with
the winding that I can take out, or will a 24V DC relay just work anyway
with AC applied as its only a coil.... isn't it ???
TIA
John
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